 There you go. Sure. So, hello everyone and welcome to my, my next desktop talk. My name is Levante Kurusha, I'm from Hungary and I'm a Fedora project ambassador and I'm also a software engineering intern on the virtualization team at Red Hat in Bruno, Czech Republic, where it's a lot more hotter than here in the States. Yeah, so I wanted to talk about some blockers, about Linux desktop and the layer of Linux desktop. So, before we get started, I want to ask you a question, like who here has heard the phrase next year or this year will be the year of Linux desktop? Raise your hands, right? So, I assume you're familiar with this thing and some of you may be familiar with this and even this, I don't know, like, this has been going on for years and yeah, that's how it goes. Every year has been the layer of Linux desktop and everybody was thinking that the next year will be even better and that's it. So, I just wanted to give you myself a little bit of an introduction, like who am I, why do? I'm 90 years, I'm a computer hacker, I work in everything with regards to computers and software most of the time. I have been an intern at Red Hat last summer and this summer as well, both working on the virtualization team, trying to make, okay, we have a lot of things work and I try to make them work properly. Most of the project ambassador, my mentor was Sultan Halper who's sitting here and he will be giving a brigade talk, just some advertisement he's gonna be giving a brigade talk about for their ambassador, mentor, and player today. Image pair time and the gas and the internship at Red Hat, I'm also working on the Linux kernel, which is one of the main antagonists in why the Linux kernel will not be successful, say. I'm not just only working on Linux kernel, I'm also working some on some low level things like road loaders and I'm in work in my own Linux kernel cloning thing. Yeah, it wasn't any successful because you can run two minutes, but it doesn't matter. I also currently, I consult the company in Canada that works on Android open source project and I actually have some weird, I actually like it for it, but that's the weird thing I do. So my goals in this talk is to share my experiences as an ambassador and that's because I visited conferences, I talk to people and they talk with me and some people are just, you know, they're trying out new Linux distributions, they come to Linux conference, they're even open source conferences because they actually wanna try out a Linux distribution. They sometimes get to the federal base and they wanna find out why Fedora is suited for a desktop and why. Why is it better than the other desktops that you go to or SUSE or something like that? And I have some experiences that I wanted to share. What do you expect? What are the problems and what they don't like and what should they like, what do they like? And I personally believe the Linux desktop right now is broken. It's not the way it should be and Windows as a desktop operating system is better than Linux desktop. I know I'm gonna get killed for that, but it's my opinion. And yeah, so we're gonna talk about why, why I think it is broken and we'll see. Of course there's some question, like what do we mean by the Linux desktop? Is it like, first of all, the kernel that defines if an operating system that like runs the Linux kernel, is it the, is every operating system running the Linux kernel on the desktop machine or the PC will be the Linux desktop? Or will it be like more of the community, like the call system, the GNOME and all that free software stuff that goes to the other informed desktop environment thing that we know as the Linux desktop? Or is it more, do we also mean that the desktop is only on like PCs and laptops, like mobile phones are not Linux desktop or are they? These questions have to be answered and the thing is it's kind of hard I'm mostly going with the ecosystem so it's like more, it's not just the curl, but more of the ecosystem like GNOME and KDE and XFC and all that things. So before we get deeper, I wanted to give you some statistics regarding the desktop, like how, where do we stand right now? And it's not, where do we stand right now? And it doesn't look good, it doesn't look nice, but we're progressing, right? Which is cool. So 56.26% of the whole desktop market share as of 2014 was Windows 7, which is quite big. It's a nice chunk. That's where we want to be at least by next year if we were to claim the layer of the Linux desktop. And what's interesting is that still we have 18.26% for Windows XP, which actually expired support. Still 20% of the machines are at least available through all that kind of exploits that Windows XP didn't fix or want to fix. A slight thing that 13.52% is Windows 8, which is really interesting, a nice jump. It's like the newest operating system. And it really jumped up to 13% which is interesting. My course acts for all the Mac users. I see at least one person you're using Mac. Federer. Federer, cool. So, well, sometimes the loop is not 40 days, but 5.26% is Mac OS X, which is a traditional operating system Mac books. And we have slightly smaller than 1.34% of Linux. And we want to widen this blue line, I would say, into a huge ball of Linux desktop. Yeah, we want to make it blue. Sorry? Blue. You already did it? Yeah, of course, all of us. Yeah, all of us. Right, yeah, of course in it, like, yeah. What are you saying, is the Linux desktop? The year of the Linux desktop has already came for people at government, you know, in the Linux ecosystem, that's true, that's true. Even for me, yeah. The year of the Linux desktop came in 2009 or something, I don't even know. Years ago. But we were talking about the masses, right? Majority of the people who are actually using computers. Some distributions that are actually the main drivers of the year of the Linux desktop. The Linux main, which is really interesting, it's only like a relatively young distribution and it just, and it just gained the most market share. I didn't find any, unfortunately I didn't find any person features for usage, but these are the five top distributions that are running in desktop. Made about two DBN offices at Fedora. And we're in fifth position, that's great. Okay, there's a lot of distributions. On the other hand, there's the mobile market, which is still running, Android is based on the Linux kernel and on the Linux ecosystem and it has 84% share on the whole mobile market share. That means that we're doing something great on the mobile screen, but we are something kind of, kind of not good on the PC and stuff like that. We have Windows, like this is like the exact opposite, right? You have Windows, which is like 2%, and you have Android, which is Linux, or Unix-based, having 84%, right? This is the exact opposite of what we have on PCs and laptops. So the question naturally arises, like, what can we learn from this, right? Like, ways that the mobile offense, like Linux, one of mobile offense is quite popular and Linux on the PCs and laptops isn't at all popular, right? Well, the question, the answer is simple. We're doing something wrong, right? There must be some difference that we're doing on the mobile phone and there must be something different than we are. What we're doing on the desktop and what we're doing on the mobile phone, right? What are the problems that I think, personally I think, and then, well, I would say that some people at conferences have told me that they don't like about Linux desktop in general, is the following, like, is top environments. And I underlined S because there are multiple list of top environments. If you know, if you're taking out, like, an Android, there's exactly what you are. Like, most of the Androids look the same, right? And you can have a desktop, like, you can have this, which is now free. Notice how it looks and then you have, I think it's Alex, no, it's KDE. You have KDE, which looks quite different, you can see. And you have Alex, which is also different from the two, maybe not so much different from KDE. There you have XFC, oh, this is not, this is Mate. And X is XFC. So these are all different. And suppose you're a newbie user, like the person who typically uses a SCOP computer doesn't, it's not a programmer, it's not somebody who is actually into programming, right? And he's not, you don't really care about details of how it works or the details of how it should be, right? What they care about is that they can use it, it's intuitive, it's easy to use and it's the same every time. And the thing is Android, the whole UI looks the same in most of the Android versions. Like there are some updates, like every other year, there's an update to Android, like the current one is Android L, I think. And there are some minor differences between the UI. But if you take for the update from GNOME 2 to GNOME 3, there was a huge update. And that was a single release of an operating system. And when the user updated, suppose it's somebody who doesn't know how to use it, and they just, the only reason he has a computer is he's had emails, right? Which let's be honest, those are the people who we want to be propeller of it, right? There's already people who are interested in, who are mostly interested in desktop computers, right? And they don't really, they're not intuitive enough to actually find out where it works. So they're gonna call somebody to find out, they're gonna call me to find them out how it works. And it's really hard to do that when hundreds of people call you to, hey, my computer updated, I can't find Google Chrome anymore, where is it? Yeah, you have to move your mouse to the top left corner and you're gonna have that. That's like what happened from GNOME 2 to GNOME 3. Yeah, so the problem is that they're all, okay, there we are, so they are all different. And for us, like for programmers, that's good because we believe in choice. We believe in the freedom of choice and we believe that choice is good. And that's because we can actually work out and we like working how things work, right? And that is, it's for the, the average user that's not so good, right? So the two screens are completely different right now. So I can't see anything right now on this screen, apparently. I don't know, so this one's frozen. Cool, this looks like that, cool. So it froze, I want like two slides away and this is, okay, so yeah, you can see this is what I'm gonna talk about, right? Okay, so they're completely, okay, let me fix it, I don't know how to fix it, but okay, so where was I? Hold on a sec, it's blue. Okay, so now it works. Yeah, so we just experienced the year of the long system. Okay, so yeah, so it's good for the people like us who like thinking with stuff, who like understanding how it works, and who like change or who people who are into things like, you know, they embrace change, they wanna test it out, you have that urge to think over there and that's good for you. But for an average user, somebody like a grandmother, like a grandmother, she doesn't know how to, how do you, you know, when she knows this tactic of finding the Google Chrome icon on his desktop, so he moves his mouse, moves their mouse up to the, up to the screen and there's the Google Chrome icon, this is for, take for ground two, then it upgraded to ground three and now she has to move her mouse into the top left corner, find out the activities thing, and then type it to Chromium and then she's lost again, so she ends up calling me, it takes a couple of hours to figure out where it went, what's new name and stuff. Obviously a solution to that is to never update your computer, but of course you wanna update your computer, everybody wants to update their computer because new and fresh, new, fresh, free stuff, right? But sometimes it just doesn't work, right? So another problem with different, okay, so the animation was lost, whatever, doesn't matter, so yeah, so we kind of have configuration problems, right? Every different desktop environment has their own configuration applications, their own setting applications, even for me it's quite difficult to set the time on two machines, if they have two different desktop environments, because one of them calls them time settings, the other one calls them data time, and the other one calls it by a clock or something, and you know, it's kind of hard, it takes time, and you know, you have this, the urge to set the time, and you have meeting, don't have meeting access obviously, and then you just try to figure out where it didn't go, where it went, yeah, so they even, it's quite hard to figure out where your settings went, and another problem is the second point here is that sometimes they have different settings, so take for example, on KDE you can set something that's more advanced, and then you're gonna be free, you cannot set that, then you have to figure out how do you actually set that setting to specify value, the value that you want, right, and I think that's the problem, and even worse is that two desktop environments do not necessarily share their settings, so if you have your printers, who here has ever had problems with their printers? I never had them working, so great, so that was like half of the room, right, so sometimes I've set my printers, I don't know, and I boot into KDE, and then I have to redo it, and then it's like, oh, come on, I have to figure out, I have to log back into Gnome to figure out the IP address of my printer, type of my printer, and then that takes time, instead you could just share them, I don't know why they don't share it, I am, it was the same demon for the print, but that's the problem, I'm kind of weird, so I think this is one of the reasons why people use Macintosh, is that it just works, like you don't have to say anything, it just works, and then it's going to vary for a lifetime, I just don't like Macintosh, but that's my opinion. Yeah, so this is like one of the problems with the looks desktop, it's like, you can't configure it, you can't configure it, but it's just a little bit impractical. Yeah, okay, so the split screen happens again. So distributions is another problem that I believe, don't get me wrong, I believe in the freedom of choice, and I like being able to choose between Linux distributions, I like running a bone-tooth, a Dora, and other stuff simultaneously in my machine, even though I love a Dora, and that's what I'm gonna end up with. Still, for the end user, it's not so good, like take for example, somebody actually wants to install Firefox in their machine, like they're gonna type in, install Firefox into their browser of choice, install, the thing is they only know if they are running Linux, because that's what they, that's different, that's what differentiates them from Windows users if they are running Linux. They're not, do not necessarily know that they are running a Dora, or they could bone-tooth. So they're just gonna type into the browser of choice that how to install Firefox on Linux, and they try not how to install it, so they get an RPM package, and they are supposed to be running bone-tooth, so they try to run the RPM package on a bone-tooth, because that's the only thing they find, and then they are stuck. They have an RPM that they can't run, and they just gonna say, okay, Linux sucks, I'm going back to Windows, and they do, this happened many, many times to my friends, and to people who told me that they found an RPM package for Firefox, yeah, because they do not know that there's a common line, they don't want to use the common line because they think it's magic, which it is. So it's weird, but really the problem is they're not aware of the system they are running, and the choice is sometimes not good. Choice is not good when you're in UB. It's, you're more like, you do not want to think of it, you do not actually care about it, it's the primary problem, I think, that you do not care about the distribution, you just want it to work, and when you find a tutorial for installing, I don't know, say for game, you're gonna install a game, and then you find an instruction for Fedora, but you're running a bone-tooth, so you mess up your computer, and you save for the graph for the first half of the tutorial, the common lines work, and you're all good, you're belated, it's good, it's working, you already met Fedora because you have to type all these comments, even though you can use copy and paste, but whatever, and then magically in the middle of the tutorial just stops working and your machine cannot find that comment, that's where you blocked. That's what, you don't want to happen when you are just a UB user, you do not want to debug, you don't want to figure out why it doesn't work or why, what even happened, right? Super, yeah, next thing, problems with distributions, right? One of them, one of the other problems is that you find it too short, that's what I was talking about. One of the other things is that you find a comment that installs Firefox, say if we are gonna install Firefox, you're running a bone-tooth, comment, you're not found, what are we gonna do? Well, it sucks, I'm switching back to Windows, right? That's what happens, it truly happens. And another thing that they suppose for some weird reason, they're trying to install proprietary drivers and they need development packages, see? So they find out that for the, say for libgpack, the package name for it would be libgpack-dev and you're running Fedora, and it's called dev-l, right? That's how you call it, dev-l on Fedora. And what happens is you type in dnf, install, libgpack-dev, something different than that on Fedora, and that is not fun, and you're stuck again, right? This also happened, this is from my experience, like this happens to people and they are really fed up with it and they don't really like that. And these questions, how do I set up my printers? Like, I have one of the distributions, it works, well, the distribution doesn't work. I don't know, it works, but that's something then. Printers are useful if they work and they don't fear that you are in a hurry, right? So, this is a quote by Miguel de Garza, I hope I pronounced his name correctly. He's the, I think he's a GNOME developer, like the main one. He is the one who said this, and he first just sanitized in a kernel on the side of core libraries, but on the mind, I did this throughout the day that held the position of power. And that's because, like, the green, every distribution is in a race against the others, right? We want to be the best, they suck, we want to be the best, right? And we do everything for that. Now, one of the reasons is how you gain market share is by adopting things that are not compatible with the others. Because if you have the most market share and you adopt a new technology, and that doesn't, there's no longer compatible with other distributions, and what other distributions that I'll small a little bit do is that they adopted to you. And that's why the Linux kernel was selected, I think. You have to make sure that your market share, like suppose there's a market of distributions, and you have a market share of 60%, and then you're running the same kernel with the 40%. Now what you do is you switch to a new kernel so that your software is not compatible with the others. Now what happens is that 60% of the users of the whole distribution market are switched to the new kernel, and then the rest of the 40% will be forced to either fork away or switch to the new kernel. And most of the time, if you are in the market, you're racing, you wanna be the best, and how you become the best is that you have to copy sometimes what the principle and the market share has been doing. And this is what happens. This happens every day in the market. And also, yeah, there are some other problems. Like actually, I think that nobody really cares about the Linux desktop anymore. And that's a serious problem. There's some really interesting thing that is this. And a kernel fully supers 4096 was actually super computer, yet my laptop, not this one, but the other laptop, has my difficulty in returning from sleep. It should be a simpler thing, right? This is quite a nice laptop that has even had Linux installed by default. Yet, when I pull it away, and I try to bring it back, it crashes with kernel panic. And I can't really do anything about it. I've been trying to debug, but only if I had time, right? And suppose I'm a super newbie user, I don't know how to view the kernel messages by typing D, but I can't do anything with the information. And that's just kind of weird. This is some interesting thing that I found. This is also common, you know, this propensity between what the kernel can do and what the kernel would do and what to do. But yeah, that's Linux torwards, by the way, the creator of Linux kernel. Wow. And another common problem with the Linux desktop is the video graphics, right? VGA for sure. And those are the small cars, small cars that you have in your laptops or pieces that generate graphics for you. And one of the biggest problems I think is that we just missed the it just works moment. When you have about your new NVIDIA 999 super, super awesome VGA card, you plug it in and then it just has the same or even worse frame rates. Why is that? Because we just actually missed it because it just doesn't work. Because first of all, the kernel doesn't care. The kernel actually dismissed binary compatibility for the vice drivers for the sake of evolution. But actually, the problem is that the kernel guys actually have valid reasons for dismissing binary compatibility. But the desktop guys, the ones who were working on Xorg drivers or whatever for interfacing with the VGA card, they just don't have the power. The desktop market share of Linux is like 1.3%. Does anyone care about it? If you have a huge market like NVIDIA and ATDI has, would you care about 1%? Would you care about that 1%? I don't think you would. And then what happens is that they just don't really care about it now. But they have to care about the kernel, which is like two different things right now. They care about the kernel because the kernel has a huge share in the server space and other spaces. But the desktop, you don't really care. Even if the kernel supports VGA card, it doesn't mean that the desktop also supports it. Yeah, this is the fact, yeah. The kernel isn't helping us either. So because of the binary dismission, which is dismiss the kernel, dismiss the binary compatibility device drivers. That's good because of the evolution. It lost your passive evolution of software. You don't have to be backwards compatible with all the modules from the 2.6 series of the kernel. Fine, it doesn't work that way for the desktop. And the other thing that I would love to have is this software release that we have from Windows, right? Everybody can set your GPU speed and then, you know, all that stuff. Do we have a Linux? I didn't see, and actually, you know, that's kind of a useful thing that I wouldn't fix some problems. That would facilitate faster debugging as well. Unfortunately, we don't have that because we're only, sadly, we're well-perceived of the market, which is kind of bad, but that's what we have, and that's what we have to be happy with, right? Another thing, yes, backwards compatibility. One of my best sleeves, I love it. Win32k, which is the ABI of the Windows operating system, is quite stable. The Win98 applications could can run in Windows 8, which is very interesting, right? That's actually 19 years old of compatibility, which is the same age as I am. So for how long I have lived, I could just run the same application of my Windows machine. And which, on the Linux side, is the GTK, the Nukit and QT for KDE, are in backwards compatible. So if you have an application written in GTK 10 years ago, chances are, if you recompile it, it won't work. Which sucks for making up, for keeping old applications. Like, you know, you have that super useful project that was abandoned 10 years ago and that you needed for your printers to work. You don't really want to rewrite the whole thing just to make it work, even though I had to once, but whatever. Another thing is the rate of change, like how often operating systems change and how Linux distributions do change. Windows updates its major version every two and three years, an average, sometimes even more, but that's not a point. And the good thing in that is there are no big changes in that time. So if you have Windows XP, you have the same exact Windows XP feeling when you upgrade to service back to, right? You have the same exact UI, the same software, nobody, nothing breaks most of the time, right? But on the other hand, we have to release those Linux distrugs and for, you know, they release quite frequently and there are big changes in there. Like, you know, changing from GNOME 2 to GNOME 3. Don't get me wrong, I love this. This is, you know, this is great for developers. All right, they want to have change fast and they want to change every time. They want to use the newest technologies. But the change from GNOME 2 to GNOME 3 came up to like 10 years of GNOME 2 so it wasn't like a six month switch. No, I know, it's like, but still, you know, if you're not following the development, you just upgrade and then it just switches. So it's, you know, so I think it's like, you know, yeah, maybe GNOME 3 is not the best example, but this happens, I have had that. Yeah, what else? I wanted to say something, but I actually forgot. So I'm just going to skip to the next slide. Oh, we also had, so no, this is still far, starting like a rant of the like this stuff. And I don't want to make it a rant because I actually believe that the, you know, LearnXStock.com, yeah. So there's going to be great talk about gaming today and we tomorrow are somewhere in this news conference and there's going to be all about gaming and because on the gaming side, we have some great stuff happening to us. Facially, it's the faster development of Linux that's done. Like some of them is like Steam OS, like you have that machine and you're at a run. This is a base in DBN and then you can just run games and then this operation is especially created for gaming. There's some gaming engines that are turning to Linux that also now are starting supporting Linux like Cretac, which is like, I don't know how to pronounce it, but Cretac, I think. Which is the engine behind some great games and Unreal Engine, which is a really nice engine that you can just quickly throw at the game scare. If you have a game that was really on a real machine and they break some windows, it's going to work most of the time on Linux. And that actually facilitates the development of Linux because gaming actually is great for giving the whole tools desktop to people who aren't familiar with programming and stuff. Even in the hardware side, there are some interesting improvements, I think. One of them is that NVDI is compatible with Bumblebee, so which is cool, but now you can actually switch. Use the Optimus technology, which is like you have two GPUs in your laptop and you can switch between the two GPUs depending on the load of the smaller GPU. And it's compatible with the perpetuate driver, which is cool. And there's some other improvements of the GPU drivers in terms of performance and stability, boiler kernels, open source drivers, and both in the perpetuate drivers as well. And it's good because these actually fast-fliate the development of the Linux desktop and how it will eventually become even better and better, which we all have our stick in, and that's what we want, right? So now we're approaching the end. So there's like, when it's, yeah, so, okay, it works. So when is our year, right? So who else thinks this will be the year of the Linux desktop? And you know, it's almost past like 2015. Hey, I'm trying to be optimistic. I still have my hopes high. I still believe Linux will be great soon. I think realistically the answer is this. If it would work, it's not soon, right? There are some problems in Linux desktop. We all hope that it will be fixed as soon as possible. But there will be some other people trying to figure out what happens next. I'm unfortunately not so much into the desktop scene, so I don't really work in desktop things anymore. Even though I do love to work on a desktop and make it better for people, and I do have some, I do help my friends and my family trying to set up that stuff, but that's all I can do right now. So that's the end of the talk. If you have any questions for, or if you wanted this, yeah, sure. So I guess it's a bigger question than your comment. I was having a chat at Boscon with a friend of mine and about the whole Linux of the desktop. Yeah. I've developed purely in Linux and I've been running it on my desktop. But yeah, and it's always this question. And he kind of put something to me, he's like, and you just hear me out on this, right? Most people are accessing the internet and will access the internet computing from their mobile device. Yeah. And for a lot of people, they won't have access, especially in various parts of the world, they'll never have access, they won't have access to this, but they've got access to this. Yeah. Now what is the number one dominant market on the phone? It's Android, right? Yeah. Yeah. So he raised an interesting point that was the year the Linux desktop has come and gone because we've all got this in our pockets, right? So it's, it's not, yeah, it's what I, it's what I, it's an interesting point, right? Like, I mean, we've reached that critical mass. Yeah, that's one of the reasons why I had a slide. Like, we have to define what it looks like, right? It's just not gonna come like next year. It's like wrong person, right? Last year. Why would you say that? That's right. Yeah, sure. So yeah, if you were actually feeling, but I have another extra slide for you, if you are interesting in more problems about the Linux desktop, there's a huge list, like 500 items or so that actually list problems in the Linux desktop. Why doesn't, why, why, you know, why is the current situation as is, and there are some improvements. The list has been decreasing and increasing in items over the years, but we'll see what happens, right? So yeah, thank you, I think. Sure, we have like 10 minutes. Okay, so yeah, I mean, I'm giving a talk later today about remote desktop in Aurora. Yeah. And, you know, one of the, we're focusing on being seen next to go, the two most stable policies for the desktop. I'm using it at work and it's like, you avoid the entire part of the compatibility problems if you're just remodeling into a server or a cloud instance. And it's, you know, and one of the things I think I've learned in my company, it's like it's important to try to get people who are trying to install Linux on the desktop. There's something like company politics and for Brits that it's, you know, a lot easier to just tell people to install this being. I don't know, actually, like, you know, like, still running Linux on your computer having. Like another example would be like, you know, if I were to install, you know, for the Aurora RL, I'm like, you know, work desktop, I would not want to get my support from the corporate IT. Yeah. For example, if it's in the like, the need of the desktop to actually acquire Windows, like even some web apps to develop on a company like in the two months ago, they only support the IE. Are we sure? Is that it? The company's, you know, like developing web apps when you want to, like the modern web framework stand, they only support IE. IE? Yeah, they're, you know, the minimized costs of this. Internet expert. They're making their, they're only testing their applications with the IE Explorer, so it's, there's so many like, they're trying to replace, you know, what, they're often just not getting desktop or laptop or whatever, you know, landline or problems, you know. Yeah, why could they? You know, all of this, man. Successfully, if you wanted people to do their, you know, the work they do on Linux by just using them. Yeah, the latency, things and all that stuff. I never actually did that, but I might actually try it, give it a try, isn't it? Yeah, I mean, I can tell you, like, talk to a lot of people who are getting no smaller tech companies like right now, they would see, you know, you want to replace the other way, it's not your laptop, desktop is no problem, but at large, enterprises, there's so many hurdles to organization work, yeah. Also, like, going off that, with, like, desktops as a whole, they're kind of, like, fading away. With all this push for innovation, then so many people want to just stick with what works if you do the IE. Yeah. Reached this point before and another critical mass has to do this, but. Yeah. It's a recent time, I think. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, sorry. Yeah, you can go now, so. What do you think are the prospects for Chrome OS? Chrome OS? Well, basically, my problem is that I'm a developer. So, I wouldn't use it because I'm trying to do work, right? So, one of the, I think one of the problems at Linux desktop is that it tries to be better for everybody. So, what I really adore about Fedora is that we actually have targeted the audience now for a federal workstation, and that is developers. And the workstation we protect now is really suited for developers. I love it. And, you know, like, I think one of the problems with the desktop thing, in general, is that you can be good for everybody. And there's no such thing as a Linux desktop. It's a Linux desktop for programmers, Linux desktop for gamers, and stuff like that, right? That's the message that I think about. Chrome is good if you want to read emails, use Facebook and all that stuff, but it's good for the newbie internet user, right? That's what I think about it. Somebody have it? Yeah? Yeah, you have it. Yeah, well, I think what I'm coming to be, that in some sense, I think the problem is the proposition here that there is really no Linux desktop right. And I think, in some sense, I think one of the one thing that you want to, that's almost on the right, is that they'd stop calling themselves the Linux because they realize that there is really no Linux. Because when you came into Linux, you get all the problem. Yeah, there's this. Yeah, as well as desktop development. There is, like, you know, that's either the lower workstation or you want to, or Steam OS. I mean, they are very independent thing. And in some sense, the fact that we keep talking about them, that they're all basically the same, creates a lot of these issues because people inspect that, hey, I can, you know, which would be in 10 desktops and expect them to all work the same. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's what the problem is. Common naming. Yeah. So I mean, in some sense, I mean, a lot of the problems, you list it out to the desktop where you've stopped calling the Linux desktops but say that actually, you know, what you're focusing on here is, like, in the lower workstation. Yeah. That's cool. That's a difficult question. I haven't actually, I don't think about that. I don't actually know. I have to think about that before I ask. Yeah. So I can tell you right now that the canonicals in selecting the room to desktop and each desktop release, yes, next, in the meantime, it's like... I think that's one of the reasons why the Mint thing has gone that much. Yeah, it means it's advancing the Linux desktop. The thing I was going to say is, you know, you mentioned all those, like, the fact that so you want to change the setting, like, it's like... Yeah. Like, the thing will close, but it will suspend my life. Yeah, it will suspend, yeah. So, you know, all the, you know, across desktop environment, kind of though, you know, the various stuff is, you know, defined or written by, you know, through desktop.org. They're accurate and they're still XTG. They'll replace them, like, they have a bunch of settings for multiple servers defined, like, the proxy setting is defined with an XTG setting. Every desktop environment, every processor needs that. There's a lot of proxy settings, so, they do have some settings, but I think they need a lot more than to be defined. Because that's a simple thing. Another example is, you know, like, a screen saver, you know, it's time out, time that's, that's something you can complicate. Yeah. Like, this is what I was talking about. Like, everybody is in a race with each other right now. Well, I mean, this is like, doing like desktop environments, not distros, you know? And, I mean, no, like, no, I mean, Kate, we have worked, you know, very well, and others don't, like, we've worked very well, like, we just uploaded in the past. Yeah, that's like, you know, I think it's part of the race, like, it's, we're not working together. I don't think, I feel like there's a race between distros, but not, not, yeah, that's, that's, oh, you have to, you should work together, right? More closely and stuff, but the market is not the way it is. You know, it isn't a parallel. I think you can use an apparel would be real life. I don't think that ever worked for me. The problem with GTK or Q in some societies, is the fact that, you know, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's the fact that, once again, it's all by the end of the history, it's a bit broken because, you know, what, what it's hard as an application all for is an API that consists of a lot of things. You get it in the GTK Q. And it doesn't, of course, help you if you have, you know, correct version of GTK or Q to install it, you know, do you see version changed or kept version changed, whatever. So it's, so in some sense, I mean, the problem is not, you know, GTK Q lacking backwards compatibility. We've got to say all this, we're trying to be parallel installable, but, you know, it's moving platform with 10 billion pieces. And I mean, I guess the fixer trying to work on their purpose is coming up with this new model of doing application bundling or library bundling and container-based applications which I think will be the real fixer. Yeah, that was the fix. I believe in that. Yep. So, yeah, I mean, I'm very optimistic we're looking to get these applications. Me too. There's basically two approaches that people take to software. The Windows desktop approaches goes to software programs websites, you know, Mozilla.org or Adobe.com The mobile approaches get it from the app store. So it's harder for Linux to conform to that, the former standard, the latter standard. We have softwares in it, which uses, you know, top-down with DNF. So you're like, we're going to have fewer problems with people downloading thanks to the local OS in the softwares, you know, software. Yeah. Yeah, but I do think we do there's other, there are features playing for known softwares in there. The reason I came up with this Firefox example is that people coming over from Windows are used to having people to download apps and RPMs from the website. Yeah. Yeah. And that's what I think we have to do, right? Like a really quick example. I'm in a teaching classroom, you know, so I had a Wacom tablet and I bought it and I set it up and I've got it from Dora 2021 here. I plugged it in and it worked and it said, yeah, we've got this Wacom tablet. It actually even said it was into a spoon and it just worked. So I was like, great, I'm going to take it to this classroom and we've got Windows 7 in the classroom. So I plugged it in to the machine for the kids to define it. Okay. Different USB portable, then it's sorry. I don't know what it is. So then we had to go on and we had to Google and we had to actually get the drive and we had to download a 200 megabyte driver file and everything else. And I find that like, so I've got I always say to use a classic example of my mother, but it is my mother that I was doing this. So I've got my mother using for Dora and the reason I've got her on that was because she was having so much trouble. Everything wanted to download drivers and everything else. So it's actually easier for me to say mum, like just do DNF install this or go to the software center and have that she likes playing little games. And I think that we need to do a lot of education and I've no tutorials or things around there for the average user to show them actually, this is a really, it's a lot easier. This is how you shouldn't use it. That's in and follows the model of and maybe that's a good point is if we can tie it into the app. So a model for people as well, just how you go and you download your Play Store app or whatever not, you can download a Play Store app. I mean, perhaps that should be the first. So we've got a problem with stuff like a dome desktop. Here's how you use dome. Yeah, we should do that. We should have like Fedora extensions like here's how you install software on the floor. Yeah. Oh, okay. Switch it up. And then overlay. So it's a transparent but actually before. Yeah. I mean, visual guides are much visual switch out here. I mean, it would be a really cool thing that in old time was that? Oh, it's just gonna save, you know. Yeah. Yeah. So yeah, thank you for coming. Thanks.