 Welcome to Healthy Planet, the show for people who care about their health and the health of our planet on the ThinkTech Live Streaming Network series. I'm your host, Dr. Grace O'Neill. Joining me today is Daniel Dineau from Trees for Honolulu's Future. Today, we're going to talk about trees. So, Daniel, tell us how you became interested in trees. Well, I think from small kid times, I always loved trees. I had a tree house and, you know, they're amazing living things in the sense of they provide a place to play, a place to refresh your mind, your body, your spirit. And of course, they're great for the environment. There's a great quote that former Vice President Al Gore said that the very best carbon-capturing device ever invented is the tree. And it's just a multitude of benefits, and that's what Trees for Honolulu's Future is all about. We want to increase the tree canopy because it's good for our city, it's good for our citizens, and it's good for the planet. Yeah. So, tell us about how trees also affect the coral reef because I was reading in your website that it can also help our coral reef. Yeah, absolutely. One of the many benefits of trees is capturing runoff, stormwater runoff. So, any kind of big rain event, if you have concrete hardscape, the water just runs off, goes into catch basins, send it to the ocean. And what's going into the ocean is all that urban debris, if you will. It's everything from litter to oil from vehicles. So, trees and other green infrastructure can help clean the water, they can help recharge the aquifer, and it's just a great benefit. So, yeah, thank you for reminding me. The fish thank the trees as well. Yes, and the coral reef, definitely. So, Daniel, tell us about how your organization got started. Yeah, sure. My father, who's a retired University of Hawaii professor of urban planning, he was on a city task force about age-friendly cities. And I have to say, my father now is 94 years old. When he was on this age-friendly city committee, he was about 85 years old. And he quickly realized that one of the dangers in the future is heat. And heat is an invisible killer. And one of the most vulnerable populations to heat are old people and very, very young people. And so, he started looking around and saying, well, what can we do from an urban planning point of view, from an environmental point of view, to help mitigate the impact of rising heat? And he came up with trees, got people together, and we can talk more about it. But what's interesting about trees for one of those future is it's not a group of arborists. It's really a broad cross-section of community working together for the same vision and goal. So, that's how I got hooked in. Blame it on my dad. So, how did you, how many different organizations do you work with? And how did you start the organization? So, the organization got started with a group of like-minded people. And it included academics, included tree groups, it included developers, and really people who had this idea that we can make a better tomorrow. And like many groups, kicked off with a conference. And that's what was really the catalyst because it really helped set the conversation and the stage for what Honolulu is a city should aspire to be. And so, today we work with various groups. They're on our website, SmartTree Specific, The Outdoor Circle, Healthy Climate Communities. But we also work with groups, Aloha Tree Alliance and Sierra Club, others trust for public land. Anybody who's working in this space, what we try to do is connect the dots and really bring people together for that common goal of increasing the urban tree canopy. So, in regards to the urban tree canopy in Honolulu specifically, how are we doing as a city? Or as a county, I should say, we're probably looking at the whole county. Sure. Well, not very well. And it's called, yeah, this is the long and short of it. Let's call up that slide that lists the different cities. And the bar graph is not going to make you very happy. You can see Honolulu in the red, we're in the lower third of the sampling of the US cities. We're about low 20%. So, that means the rest, the 78% is other things. It's buildings, it's hardscape and the like. So, our goal, and actually it's now, thanks to our advocacy part of city policy is to increase the urban tree canopy to 35% by 2035. So, if you call back up that chart, you'll see, well, what is 35%? Well, 35% is Washington D.C. So, your viewers can kind of imagine if they've been to Washington D.C. That's about 35% urban tree canopy. That's where we want to be in the future. So, yeah, we've got our work cut out. No doubt about it. I wish I had better news for you, but we're not doing as well as we need to do. So, how about in the parks? Is there any potential for the state or county to plant more trees in some of the parks like Alamoana? I know there's a park on Ward where it seems like there's more room for trees. Obviously, they have really big ones that are great that I wouldn't want to cut down, but they could probably put a few more trees in. So, I'm wondering are Capulani, is there any potential there to put more trees in the parks? So, absolutely. And we work very closely with the city as well as the state. They're obviously major landowners, and they have these spaces that can support large trees. And you touched upon something really important. It's not just about planting new trees. It's preserving what we've got. And in particular, these large trees that could be decades, even 100 years old, provide a lot of ecological value. So, it's not just planting new. It's preserving what we have. One of the challenges in parks and other spaces is competing usage. So, Capulani parks are a great example. And there's wonderful trees there. There's also wonderful ball fields there, you know, to play rugby or soccer and the like. So, you know, it's important for the parks department to balance the needs and the walks. Now, where we've advocated, and we were very successful in Kapolono Park in the Kanke area, was putting more trees around the perimeter. You know, so it doesn't impact the play field, but the other nice part about it is that as the canopy grows, it will shade spectators. It will shade the street because you put it around the sides as opposed to, you know, conflicting it with other uses. But there's absolutely great potential in public spaces. And how about, is there a potential for when they make new developments? Because what's happening now is there's a lot of development, especially on the west side of the island. You know, Mililani, I think too, is having some new development. And those, I mean, especially Mililani has a lot of trees. And so they might be cutting down trees for a new development. Are there any criteria when, I don't know if you know, but are there any criteria when they apply for developing land, because they have to get permits, right, that they have to plant a certain number of trees when they develop, you know, and you can operate. I mean, I think that would be a great requirement. But I don't know if it's a problem. There is a requirement in new developments. So when you have a large scale, you know, Mililani, Maoka and Coa Ridge, I guess, is the new one. There are developer requirements for a certain number of trees and placement and so forth. And you just pointed out something great, because think about Mililani, Mililani, Maoka, those are both planned communities. Caso and Cook developed them. And they got a lot of trees. And it's because they were forced to plant the trees when the development started. And now it's decades later, and those trees have matured and, you know, there's center medians and so forth. So I think the large scale developments are not an issue as much as small developments, monster homes, things like that. You know, you lose a tree here, you lose a tree there, you know, there was a wonderful mango tree in my backyard, now it's gone, you know, things like that are what cause the decline in the urban tree canopy. And the new developers, like I said, I think they do a pretty good job in terms of canopy. Yeah, you know, it is a tragedy because there are a lot of monster homes. And it's very hard to stop it, even with new legislation, because there's little loopholes that people get around planting trees. And that's, you know, you asked about the regulations. If you're doing a private lot development, single lot, building a monster home, whatever, there's no requirement. So, you know, the requirement is on the subdivisions, these large scale developments. And there's, except in a few special districts, there's no restriction on removing a tree. So, you know, you can have a giant tree and just cut it down. A lot of jurisdictions require a permit to remove a tree over a certain size. And what's exciting about what we can learn from other places is you need to replace it and not just tree for tree. So you cut down a large, say, mango tree and, okay, I'm going to plant one little tree in the replacement. No, they want you to plant the same number of caliper inches. So you cut down 20 inches of trunk. We want to see 20 inches of new trees go into your property. That's what other jurisdictions do. Honolulu, Neighbor Island. Yeah, because it's such a problem now. And all these trees are being cut down on these huge monster lot developments, you know. I'm also wondering what can the individual do? I mean, obviously, people can plant trees in their own backyard. So I know you have some resources on your website as to how to plant a tree, correct? Yes, yeah. And he can just summarize real quick, you know, and then how to plant a tree. And I know it's quite lengthy to, you know. Well, it's not too lengthy. It's really a lot of common sense, which is get the right tree for the right place and make sure you care for it correctly. So that's the key because you don't want to plant a co-a tree next to your house because it's going to disrupt the foundation. No question about it. So make sure you site the tree properly for the place. Another really important part is, and I've had this discussion, you know, Ohia Lehua, beautiful tree, beautiful Hawaiian tree, state endemic tree now, thanks to the legislature. You know, don't plant it next to the ocean in Waikiki. It's not meant to be there. And you know, it's not going to do well with the salt and, you know, the low rainfall. If you're in a high rainfall place, plant it there. You know, so I cannot stress enough. People get excited about planting a tree, but plant the right tree in the right place and then put the right care in our website, wealth of information, others of, you know, even videos how to plant a tree. Yeah, lots of information. Yeah. And see your websites. I see your pulled up Arbor Day events. And these are exciting because every year in November, the first weekend in November, Hawaii celebrates Arbor Day. And these are places where a tree giveaways and it's all sponsored or under the rubric of the Department of Land and Natural Resources. Every county in the state has the opportunity for citizens to go and get trees. 99% of them are free. So, you know, there's no real barrier to getting a tree and then taking the time to plant it and care for it. So, yeah, really urge people to pick the right tree for their specific location. Yeah. And, you know, another thing that I noticed that's on your website as well, that there are a lot of trees on streets that are cut down. Like we just had a huge tree cut down on the intersection of Waili. And I mean, I ride every way that way to work. So there was a huge tree. And I guess it was probably somehow abutting the power line. And so it was cut down. And it was a beautiful tree. And I missed it just, you know, looking in that area that it was in. And I'm like, Oh my gosh, that tree, they cut it down. So I know that on the website, it said that you can sometimes obtain street trees. I'm sure if it was as big as that tree, you might not be able to. But how can people try to obtain these street trees that are already grown? Is it easy? It's easy to request. You may not get your request granted. So the city has a website. And I'll make sure you can put it in the show notes. And, you know, funny you bring it up. Matt, you know, earlier today, someone emailed us through our website and said they live in Moanalua area with no overhead power lines. So this is the beautiful place. Planted tree. And he wanted to know how to do it. So I sent him the information on how to request a street tree. There are other considerations as well, like site lines and so forth. And I think I'm sure your show has dealt with this issue. You know, it's a conflict of uses, right? So is the cars in charge or the people in charge? And, you know, so you don't, the city won't allow a tree to be planted a certain number of feet away from a stop sign, certain number of feet away from a mailbox or a driveway. So they all of these little things just keep shrinking down the place where a tree can go. So absolutely anyone who's interested in a tree in front of their house, they can contact the city. The city will respond. They'll check out the site and if it's appropriate, they'll plan to tree and what the city really asks and we have programs that do this as well as steward the tree. You know, you're the homeowner or a renter and you can fall out a little hose and water it. And once the tree is established, the tree can take care of itself. It will need some pruning and so forth. But if it's the right tree, it will do just fine. But you got to help. It's kind of like a little kid. You got to help the baby get established and then when they turn to be an adult, they're on their own. Yeah. Well, I'll tell you, I went to last year, I think they had an event at KCC and I happened to just be at KCC and I saw one of my friends and she said, you know, they're giving out free trees. So I went and I hadn't signed up, but they said, well, you know, if you want some of these trees, they pointed to like an area and I said, I think there's an avocado in there. And I thought, oh, okay, I don't have, I mean, I had some avocado trees that grew from seeds, but it takes a long time for them to fruit. So I said, okay, I'll get an avocado tree, but I put it in my yard. It's doing fabulously. However, I think it's a mango tree because the leaf looks like a mango tree. But I was like, okay, I have a mango tree, but I'll take another one. Maybe it's a different species because the leaf looks slightly lighter. But, you know, it was a fabulous event. And I think that's great. I mean, if people have extra trees, are they able to donate to, how do they obtain these trees to give out to the community? So the tree event that we were involved with some partners in Kamuki at KCC, and I don't recall avocado or mango tree being on the list. So I don't know what kind of tree you got. So just send me a picture later. But we can call up the first picture. This is of community volunteers. They actually germinated the seeds, planted them, we transplanted them into one gallon of pods. And you can see the logo on the left side and the second slide, one of our happy tree recipients. But it wasn't just about giving away trees. It was this idea of growing community. And that's what we really liked. And he's holding up the tree on one hand and the other hand, and I hope you got one, an adoption certificate. Because that was really key, this idea that you're not just getting something free and you should go home and kill it. You should go home and take care of it. And there's QR code that help people understand how to plant their tree, how to care for that particular species of tree. And we actually went back. It's interesting. Next month, I'll be giving a talk at a national conference about the results of the tree planting. Because it's one thing to give the trees away. The second and more important question is what happened? And we found out some people took trees and never planted them. That's interesting, but we want to find out why. What were the motivations and what were the results? And so we're going to be presenting the results to this conference. That would be interesting. Did you look at the survey that you sent out to recipients? So we sent out, yeah, I was quite surprised the ones who admitted we never planted it. And that's fine, because we want to find out what... Barriers? Yeah. And you can learn. And then what motivates people? Because at the end of the day, Grace, that's the most important part. How do individual behaviors result in change that will then help the planet? And it's not enough to think about it. You got to do it. And maybe these people, they didn't have room to plant the trees and you can theoretically leave it in a pot. I mean, a tree can survive years in a pot. Obviously, it's not optimal for the root system and it probably stunts its growth. But I mean, eventually if you took the tree out of the pot and you put it in the ground, would it grow? I mean, it might have its growth stunted, but it will still grow and it will still continue to be a tree, so... Yeah, it's not a good idea to leave them in the pot for extended periods of time, because what happens, the roots, is you get root bond. So when you do transplant it, it's really important to just feather out the roots so that they're not in a clump. And then ultimately, all trees need uncompacted soil. They need places, their roots are just like our fingers. They need to get out and around. And the difference is different types of trees need different amounts of space. So some trees in papaya tree, although I wasn't taught once in the the the host said, well, papaya is not really a tree. And I was like, okay, science, technology, we all can imagine the papaya tree. It doesn't need much space. It's a gross tall. The root system is not very expensive. So it's a wonderful tree for small amount of space. And we haven't talked about it, but it creates fruit that you can eat. And this is a wonderful and very powerful social activity, because when it fruits, you probably have too much. And what do you do? You give it to your neighbor, you take it to the office, you share the bounty of your labor. And what's really neat about that is people then share back. And that's a really neat cycle of fruit bearing trees that, you know, we really want to just celebrate and encourage. And it's just a wonderful thing. Who doesn't want a papaya from their neighbor? Yeah, I will say even papaya trees, even though it doesn't require a lot of care, it does still require care, because I'll tell you, my neighbors have been gone for months, and they used to water their papaya tree every day. And I think it's dying now, very sadly. Well, you need to step in and help out. I know, I should, I should have been one. But you know, I got, I have so many trees myself. I have a mango tree that's grown, you know, it's full size. And then I have a soursop tree. I have banana trees. I have two lemon trees. I have three avocado trees. I have one tree from you guys, which I don't know what it is. And then I have two plumeria, one in a pot, because my friend said actually with the plumeria, interestingly, it grows better initially in a pot. And then once it flowers, you can put in the soil. So I have one in a pot and one in the soil. But you know, the thing is, the advantage I have is that I have quite a bit of land to plant trees. And my backyard was actually very hot, which was a lot of the reason that motivated me to plant the trees. Because otherwise, I think, you know, if I had been had a lot of room, had a lot of trees already, you can't, there's only so much you can put in. So yeah, that's the tragedy. But I was wondering too, in terms of trees, is there a certain lifespan they have? Like say for a mango tree, I know after a while, it stops fruiting. Do they kind of live on forever? And then they just don't grow anymore? I mean, when is it time to, I mean, I know there's obviously those things we talked about before kind of encouraging people to remove a tree, like stop signs, growing into the street, you know, being too near a house. But are there other things? So the age of a tree, it really depends on the species and also how it was cared for, pruned as it was growing. So the best advice I can give is there's no single answer, except get a qualified certified risk to check out the tree. Because there's just like people, some people live to be 110, others die at age 45. It varies based on a whole bunch of factors. But in general, tropical trees like we have in Hawaii do not live as long as, you know, you always hear like, oh, the 300-year-old oak tree in North Carolina or wherever. And one of the reasons, as I understand it as a late person, is our trees grow year-round. And so these tropical trees tend to grow up and larger, quicker, and then they'll die sooner, as opposed to, you know, a four seasons kind of climate where a tree will, you know, spurt in the spring and summer, drop their leaves in the fall, dormant in the winter, and then cycle again. But, you know, that's why there is no single answer on how long a tree lives. But a tree does have a lifetime. There's no question about it in terms of our typical, you know, trees that you get up to Sequoia and, you know, the redwoods. And these trees are 1,000 years old or plus, or Joshua tree in California. Yeah. But those are very special and different. And how about invasive species? Are they a threat to our native trees? I mean, obviously the invasive species, they still provide, you know, they still do photosynthesis. They're still helpful for climate change. But, I mean, are they a threat to a native tree such as an Ohia? Yeah, they are. And we're not a fan of invasive imports. But we are, we believe it's all about the right tree and the right place. So a banyan tree or a monkey pod tree, you know, those are not native to Hawaii. They were brought here. But they're appropriate in the right places. You know, you think about a park or, you know, Elani Palace, for instance, beautiful trees there. So the real point is you don't want to plant something that's going to go willy-nilly and overcome, you know, albizia is a great example in the forest, a bad, bad, bad tree. And there's a website called Plant Pono that is super easy. We'll make sure you it in the show notes. You can just look up the trees and it will give you the score and base of Oh, that's fabulous. Yeah. So you can quickly, quickly check and you just put in the common name monkey pod and you know, it will come back with that's a great. Yeah. So, so check it out. It goes right back to that right tree discussion. Well, thank you so much. We're out of time. So we have to wrap it up. But I'm Dr. Grace O'Neill. This is Healthy Planet on the ThinkTech Live Streaming Network series. We've been talking with Danielle Dinelle from Trees for Honolulu's future. Thank you, Eric, our broadcast engineer and the rest of the crew at ThinkTech for hosting our show. And thanks to you, our listeners for listening. I'll see you in two weeks for more of Healthy Planet on ThinkTech, the show for people who care about their health and the health of our planet. My special guest will be Amber Miyake from Rapid Ohia Death Statewide. It's a statewide outreach coordination. So if you have ideas for the show or questions for my future guests, please contact me at HealthyPlanetThinkTech at gmail.com. Check out my website at gracinghawaii.com or Instagram at gracefulliving365 for more information on my projects, including future show guests. I'm Dr. Grace O'Neill. Aloha everyone. Thank you so much for watching ThinkTech Hawaii. If you like what we do, please like us and click the subscribe button on YouTube and the follow button on Vimeo. You can also follow us on Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, and LinkedIn, and donate to us at thinktechhawaii.com. Mahalo.