 process for the new economic director and for the new, let's see, other one, oh, the parking coordinator to have them be thinking about how we want to have climate action integrated into the hiring process and training of employees. So that's under one where there's no money attached to it right now. It's just saying, we won't use this. How likely it is, it will get anything. So let's get to discussion. Anything, any questions? So this is not an annual report. And our first annual report will be December 2020, a year and a half since we've been established. We did give them a pretty substantial report when we got our rules. OK, the only question I might have is whether you want to emphasize that in that paragraph to say that our next annual report will be submitting December 2020. I'll say that. Yeah, sure. As I went through this, I wasn't sure if this was considered an annual report and that the next one would be in December. No, it's just saying. It's on our agenda as annual appropriate. It's actually a budget request, you know. No, I want that as to whether we should have a full, fledged annual report right now, but since we can't report that much and we already have reported recently. So what we could add that sentence to, just to confirm it. I am, again, I think this was pretty good on a large level with it. Under capital, under the first act of the current capital requests, I'm just a little confused about what the meaning of the rusticle we're asking or suggesting there is. Because it seems like we're saying we support current capital requests to the extent that they are the most energy-emissioned infrastructure at the ankles and represent steps to lighten or reducing the use of possible infrastructure and increasing the use of renewable energy. Are we trying to really say that we are urging you not to approve things that don't advance sustainability and we're just sort of masking that? Is that the, I just have to spend a little and I won't continue on the phrase in there. I think that is, I think that is. I mean, we went through a process of talking about whether or not we wanted to put together a climate impact statement. Yeah, exactly. So people doing that were basically saying, emphasizing that this is. That there are a bunch of things out there that they're requesting that could conceivably commit us to using climate rules for the next 30 years. I'm just worried that's a little vague. That we mentioned kind of glossed over. We're like, there's not a concrete asking there, let's see, a concrete proposal. You know, if we just added in a word or two. Yeah, there's sort of something that we can do next. We support a process or we support departments to consider in making their current capital request. Something that is more of a. We urge departments to consider the emissions impact of all capital requests. And then and then support current capital requests that consider the emissions that some right. Yeah, what does it mean to say that we support current capital requests? Well, they were already coming in. So departments are already forming their budget. These are the types of things that they're asking for. Grouping, paving, you know, trying to say that CAC supports those requests that are the most energy efficient. And eliminating fossil fuel use. Yeah. OK, I guess we're not specifically saying what to say. But it sounds like what we want to protect the town from doing is investing in something. Exactly. That losses to fossil fuels or misses an opportunity. Yes. For example, the classic, if you're regrouping at the insulation, that kind of opportunities that come that have large impacts, that's what we are trying to avoid. The issue is that we feel like it's a little premature too late in the process to do that now. And when there could be a second paragraph that says moving forward, we would request. We would urge and we will work with the town to help them develop a process. And like I said, it appears that they're going toward that in the community resource committee anyway. Which is a committee of the council. It's all counselors. Right, right. No, I think that's a great idea. OK, that's not to use any more variation. I see now that I think I was correct in reading it as being a little bit fitting in the concrete aspect. So should we just do the moving forward for both? We can put in both. Yeah. Right. How much time do you have us talking about this? Yeah, good point. Five minutes. I don't know. This one would be just sort of a joy of the time. I really like this idea that sustainability not be the group over here, the committee over here, that it's integrated into everything. It's smart. I like to look at this email to the fact that this is the same question that I would have is why isn't that true about other things? And in particular, I think there is a very clear overlap with sustainability and social justice. And is it a strength or a weakness message to don't want to come off as being too narrow minded, like, hey, everyone in the town has to be like us or think in this way. And is there a broader, at the risk of rebooting it, is there a way to play for climate action and climate justice? Is there just a phrase in there that gives it a slightly broader... Where are you looking? At the last paragraph, the job description. And I'm finding that people think that I'm just making it too broad. The sustainability and climate action be a great outcome in future job descriptions. That's what you're looking at? Yeah, yeah. Because why should... There's so many... There's other things that I think should be integrated into those job descriptions. I think it's reasonable. But your concern is mostly that we should add climate justice? What if we just said sustainability and climate justice? Or climate action and climate justice. Because... I'm asking if people think it's worthwhile to broaden it to be more inclusive to the egalitarian aspect. It's not just the... Yeah. I would support what you're replacing with climate justice. Yeah, me too. Okay. Let's do that. She just think there perhaps be another heading. Because it kind of looks like it's under operating budget. It would be. It would be. It was a real operating budget. Okay, that should have a number two. Because it's different. Oh, okay. There is the two. You have a one. The second paragraph would be two and the third paragraph would be three. Okay. Very different things. They were before, but we're trying to... They moved around. Yes, thank you. Okay. Is that good? So if we... There seems to be urgency for getting this thing out. Maybe we could vote to... to send it with the amendments that we can, if you trust, must put those amendments in. Okay. Because the time manager was really saying we need to get her request ahead quickly. Will it go through Laura? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, if you made amendments and she got, like, to finalize... Yeah. Yeah. Can you just highlight for her the changes we made so that she... Yes. So where? We didn't do anything radical, did we? No. No. I hope so. Not at all. I'll second his motion. Okay. All in favor? Sending this out? Okay. It's unanimous with the absentees. All right. So now we're onto the MVP process. It sounds like... I'll give you 15 minutes. Okay. Let's see where we are. So unfortunately, we had submitted an RFP to try to find a consultant and we got zero responses. Oh, that's interesting. It's not surprising, though. And actually, in some ways, it's good. I'll give you the... So... I get real. So... I mean, it sounds horrible, but actually, in the end, it's probably better that it happened this way because it may give us more time. So what happened was that the problem is the timeline. I reached out to our consultant, Linnean, who we worked with, once the time was up, I was able to call them. And I also reached out to the MVP program manager of Caroline's Center. And Linnean was great. He said, I was wanting to call you this afternoon. He said, I just want you to know it killed us not to apply. This is why. He said they literally had at least six different engineering firms contact them wanting to submit something either in partnership with them and everyone for hours. But everybody said that the timeline was just so tight. So, in any case, one other firm actually even commented and said they didn't apply because they thought we had a specific firm in mind because the timeline was too tight. But the time constraint is all about the grant. It has nothing to do with us. Obviously, we give it plenty of time if we could. So, that being said, I called the MVP program and I spoke with Kara and she was great. And she said, look, she said, I absolutely recognize that you all did your best. She said, you were clearly cognizant of the short time frame. She said the speed at which we got the RFP out and we had responses, you know, that we were clearly cognizant of that constraint. She said, typically they do not grant extensions. She said, what I need to do is to rework the scope that we'll actually put some of this into the next fiscal year. But I have to put the majority of the funding to be utilized this year, this fiscal year. Because what happens is any funding that we don't use in this fiscal year disappears. It's not like the state can, because I said, why can't we just put our, could we just put our application on hold for the next cycle? And she said, no. The money they have is the money they have for this fiscal year, and if it doesn't get used, it disappears. Think of it like your tax benefits, you know, like if you don't use your tax credits. So like if you were signing up to get reimbursements for your tax credit, you don't get that. Like if you don't use it up by June 30th, it's gone. Same thing. So if we don't use some of that money, what happens is any money we need to use in the next year is then going to be taken out of their next round of funding. So they're going to have that much less funding because we already secured some for our project. So that being said, she said she thought we had a good case. They recognized the timeline was incredibly tight and the fact that we had zero responses when clearly there was interest out there is justification for it. She can't guarantee it, but I think she's going to rally for us. So that's good news. Can you clarify what she's rallying for? For us to get the extension. Spending the bulk. Spending, but we spend the bulk of it as much as we can in this fiscal year. So I think the way that, really the way that I see, I mean writing is going to be the thing that we really need some of the most input from the consultant. So I think the only way we can really do this is to do all of the community engagement plus working with the consultant in prioritizing our sort of list so that we pretty much almost have a punch list that they can then do the writing for within this first period, this phase one, which means June 30th. But isn't the engineering consultants that they would hire going to be a big part of the cost? That's going to be, well, that's going to be part of the cost. We only, we have $100,000 budget, so it's not like we can, we're going to be spending $50,000 on engineering. We can't. We don't, I mean, there's not going to be that. We also have interpretation that we have as part of the funding. You know, there's other, money is already allocated in different pockets, if you will. Right, but the engineering isn't actually a pocket. That's the things that have to be done that will be, that are understood. And I think we have to limit ourselves. We can't, so for one thing, even if we have a full year, we don't, we're not going to be able to identify all the things we can do. What's probably the most important thing is to maybe identify a couple of things you want to move forward with. CCA being a great example. Something, a couple of, maybe a couple, one or two primary things in each category to sort of get started, but defining the process moving forward. Like having a plan that outlines this is what we're starting with and then moving forward and having the process with which to do that for like the next round. Like how often are you going to assess? How are you going to assess? What are you going to include? You know, just ways to sort of engage. All those things should kind of be trying to be spelled out so that it's kind of a blueprint for doing what we need to do and then moving forward as well. That's, I don't, that was also, you know, from input from Jim as well because from Linae and Solutions. Because again, we can't, even in the best of circumstances, unless we were going to take five years to work on a plan, we're not going to include everything. So we're going to, the best thing is to sort of identify those things that sort of are like, what are top priorities that you can start with to get started and sort of think of it that way. And I think once we get a consultant on board, they'll help flush this thinking through. This is a very, I'm giving it a very broad brush approach right now but I think they'll, when you get a consultant, they'll be able to help you sort of hone this in more. Just, you know, open this for discussion. Negative reaction to even having a consultant write our plan for us. Because I feel like we're capable of doing that ourselves and we know more about what we want to have done. I'm wondering if we could somehow orchestrate it so that we get a draft from the consultant and then we finish it in the next fiscal year. I think we're perfectly capable of writing the plan within this committee. We would feel a lot more ownership if we did it ourselves. I guess I feel like it would be nice not to have to go back and update it repeatedly because it's such a time. You know? And I think after it's done it will probably, I don't know if anyone will ever refer to it again. I remember when we first started we were like, I hope we're not going to spend the whole first year working on a climate action plan. Well, here we are. So that's part of the reason why we consultant to it. I guess I feel like I don't want us to cut corners. I think we need to do it the best way we can. That's all I have to say right at the moment. Jesse. I looked at all the other climate action plans. I don't remember if you guys have been and thank you for organizing that in an easy through clicking way. Including animals to climate action. And I have to say I was a little discouraged at just the the sort of visual just I tried to picture myself as a someone who lives in this town or in this community what would they do with this 70 pages or 90 pages or 40 pages of wall of charts and words and maps and this is my profession understanding these things and I'm still like really get to it. Springfields was the one where at least Springfields it had a couple of bigger words that felt meaningful to me. So I would ask the question this is great that we have this opportunity what is the point of this plan what do we want this plan to do and for me it's to inspire action and to make action happen but I can picture this thing being 10 pages long and the bigger documents are like the greenhouse gas emissions for 2020 to 2021 whenever that happens next and those are things that we need support doing but coming up with the words and the language and the goals and the vision I felt lacking to me in all these plans and I just couldn't I wasn't connecting to it and I was having a hard time imagining so I think again the question I would ask us in our whole community would add on that that I 10 pages sounds good to me if we can get across 10 pages opposed to 70 pages but in addition to the vision and the motivation I think it's important to also use a consultant to do some of the heavy lifting on grounding this reality in terms of do we have goals make me go on keep numbers straight but we got 25 by 25 quicker than that and some analytics together to understand and be transparent with everybody of what that means with a lot of caveats and projections of the future and so forth and nonetheless inform people whether this is like a walk of the park or is this like a major commitment is this doable what are we asking people in some real terms what's the talent look like to me so I think some again I wouldn't spend as much time on writing 70 pages as I would in using some of that expertise on some of the digging up some of the data and analytics and doing some of the analytics that would be really helpful to see ground truth where we're at and that I do seem to see a bit more lacking in some of the other kind of action it's funny this spring feels like I can improve it drastically by deleting the first version of it so it starts by changing the way we get around and starts actually talking about what it's going to do but there's already two pages of just process stuff before it gets to that so let's not do that one right here one thing I have to say is this is also a document that will get us funding to do these projects so unless you have it who's going to pay that's one audience the consultants reviewing the RFP didn't get the impression that they needed to create a blueprint that will get us all the way in 2015 I hope what I would like to see the plan is outline that greater need but put a lot more detail here's what we can do initially ground it into some analysis as to what's the lower hanging fruit and here's three or four programs that we can manage to do for the next year or two or more that we'd like to do in the next time frame and then the report would get revised on a yearly basis as we march through progress on those and take on the other tasks as we can I guess I feel like if we have a goal of 25% by 2025 that's embarrassed yes and that I would at least like to be able to illustrate how we could do that and quantify and 50% by 30% we're hoping that TCA will be a part of that and so if we could like attach emissions reductions to different plans that we're putting out there you know maybe there are five or six things that we want to do between now and then and this is what we want to do and this is how it can bring down our emissions that's a really good point and maybe that's how the scope can get revised for the RFD is that the target isn't creating the process for the whole thing but maybe creating the process to work towards that first 2030 goal which is the 50% like the 25 by 2025 and the 50% by 2030 maybe that could start there I could definitely see that that's after that that's actually sending out the message we are actually going to do something here the earlier one I think that having I really do want help from someone who can do this to work backwards from 50% from 2030 and say where can we get this given the technology we already know we have and at the not most possible expensive way of doing it and what do we have to put in process to go beyond 2030 I don't want to just have nothing big blank but here's in order for start the sequestration measurement that may not happen in the next 10 years but you have to do these things in order to be ready for it to happen by 2035 that might not be the right example but is that what it sounds like it could maybe be a combination of the things where you say you're looking for expertise to come in and assist with identifying what those things are to meet the 2025 2030 goals with with identification of those other processes to get us to the 2050 goal so that it doesn't just end with these are our 2030 2030 50% goals it sort of has some specific things sort of targeted but then projects other things to do moving forward and these are the things you're going to have to look to or ways in which to do and I don't know if it's it's our job to look and say these things the technology isn't cheap enough we actually can't do this until it comes down without state funding so we're going to work on state funding for black something we can also expect from a consultant I think you have that conversation with the consultant that's partly what you're doing work out you know we don't have that state support yet so we're saying okay we're going to work on that we hope to get that by 2025 or whatever so we've honed a little bit um the scope just in terms of the focus being on you know you know the next 10 years well we're thinking like like what kind of emissions reductions will we expect from CCA what kind of emissions reductions can we expect from that kind of action and building on that what are the at a high level obviously but you know what are the main challenges and barriers for getting those and what could be actionable items that we can start early to penetrate the barriers be it state funding or outreach financing through CCA type of thing I suggest yes mm-hmm and also something that can be used to raise additional funds because it shows hey CCA can get into 25% to 20% by 2030 but only if it triples the budget then it has to actually procure right and that's a really big strong tool to make this case politically and I think the environment out there to different audiences that's more important than reactivating well what you said Jesse really did resonate with me and also Darcy we can write those 10 pages we should be the ones to write those 10 pages and the consultant's writing should be the appendices and also I can picture some helping us organizing thinking and through that to some degree that pushing us we won't be able to write it in the time span of what we believe so it will increase our homework right and I don't think we'll have that at all desirable that sounds horrible definitely there will be a period of time we can divide up the sectors and have a retreat spend all day working on it well you're going to have your you have a lot of community engagement too because you're talking about you have an environmental justice component to this which has pretty much clearly stated that you're going to be going out and sort of working with the community as well so these consultants will also help with working with the community on identifying you know sort of helping to sort of parcel out what are the community needs that are out there that sort of speak to equity and depending on the consultants we get there are some that are going to be more skilled at that than others and then you know and then sort of incorporating that into the plan so you're going to need time for the community engagement piece too because there's a whole lot of meetings that are included in that RFP well that's really important to point out explicitly because that is indeed the type of profile that we're looking for it sounds like our dream person so that can do detailed technical, sector specific analysis of how much emissions production we can expect in certain activities and also is an amazing community facility that has the skills to set up a community meeting in a public housing space or whatever you know we have funding identified to engage a community member as part of that RFP so if you guys, it's in the RFP I can send it again I know I probably didn't have time to read it but it's more in the budget if you look at the budget, the budget really lays it out so check out the budget and that lays out engaging a community member to do just that like the models well exactly but they'll hire people to do the pieces they can't it's a team and we're all the team the team isn't them it's us so that's the team ok but you're going to have such a cool community you can say we did this on the aspect of scope Jesse was go ahead this is a different on the aspect of scope for the new RFP there were some questions submitted that were answered on the town website and several questions asked about the need for redoing the greenhouse gas inventory and the answers that were posted sort of said well maybe if it's necessary so I wondered if some of the consultants might have thought that that was adding to the already unreasonable scope and timeframe so I guess my question is do we want to try to make it clear that the new greenhouse gas inventory is probably not expected the only reason it came up though is because some of the questions were also about if we change assumptions like to Jesse's point a couple of meetings ago there are assumptions in the inventory and that's the thing it's like well if you do start going down that road I agree what I was saying about benchmarking and really being able to analyze the impact of things we will perhaps need to discuss numbers maybe we don't need a form of inventory yeah the question was more about the trend analysis so I actually went through this afternoon and tried to okay it's big it's a lot but I went in and I found the three or four cells that seemed like they were really swinging the needle in a strangely obscured way like the big ones the natural gas factors that they're using like less than a percent for example but now the is it by the three or four or more percent and they're like on the range I was like the full warm potential of that thing it's twenty eight to thirty six they're using twenty eight it's thirty six it's swinging the needle so there's a bunch of little things in there that ties in though to I don't think it matters as much as I think it matters in the sense that like we need to do huge moves and if no matter what and I think this ties really ties into this education piece of like this group first probably and then the whole town sort of like getting a common language around and literacy around all this stuff which is still really fuzzy and so back to that part of our outreach effort potentially is just building that understanding of this stuff but I think at minimum maybe just a little audit of the 2016 just to have have a third party look at it that's I think that's I think that's a a spence of the consultant kind of yeah and again it was more specific question had to do with redoing a trends analysis so if they were changing assumptions would they have to redo a trends analysis and that was sort of like well if you're changing assumptions that impact you know data then you obviously do have to you know and that's again it's depends on how deep we're going how much do we need this really in order to do the other things that we're trying to do maybe not I mean are we going to check our emissions not annually not annually but that's also another thing that you identify as part of your plan how often do you go back and reassess your inventory like do you update you know every other year every five years and again these are all things because you I mean ultimately you're looking to have something to reference right so how do you how do you measure how do you measure your success and and these are not there it's such a it frustrates me because I always feel like it's so intangible really these are really these numbers it's one that you get a a methodology that's reasonably good but you stick with your your piece enough of that methodology that you're you feel like you stick with that methodology so you can so you can track your time and know that it's it's consistent or have means to re-calibrate things if the methodology changes for some good reason right but I think that I don't know if it's Jesse or Steve's but in terms of you know what we decide we should do in the next two or three years it doesn't you know whether the inventory is within a 20% accuracy range it doesn't really matter we're at the very top once we get down to scrubbing out the last two hours we might have to be more concerned but right now it's like what's the best thing we can do to get a lot of re-calibration and maybe that's the focus so that maybe the green house maybe the inventory doesn't there isn't a big focus on it and maybe like after those things are done then there's maybe a new you know a new inventory that's done or a deeper doc so I want to come back to where we started which was that we might be able to get more time we hope so because nobody can do what we need in the time frame um and so we expect that will be a yes and to pay out the majority of the money because what it's lost there is no money in after July 31st we have no because what happens is the state has given us $100,000 June 31st June 30th the state has given us $100,000 if we spend $100,000 now that's great and that was the whole idea was like get us to spend it all within this fiscal year if we spend $30,000 then and we say well and we're going to use the $70,000 in the next fiscal year that $70,000 comes out of their new budget and the $70,000 from this year's budget is gone so they've lost the state basically just lost the $70,000 so in order to give us an extension they're making a promise that they will save out $10,000 $20,000 whatever it is I mean in my mind I'm thinking maybe I feel like it's pushing it a little bit but I thought if we did 50-50 then it would be hard for them to say it's the majority because basically we're spending 50 now on 50 in the next cycle I don't know that we can go beyond 50 but we can because they specifically said in order for this to get approved they're asking us to spend the majority in this fiscal year why do you think it would be hard to spend so the engineering companies told them that they couldn't do what would be required in the time frame but they would have done a lot and they could be paid for a lot and so it might be 75% done and 25% is held over whatever is in the majority in this fiscal year is fine if you could do 60-40 that's great I was thinking that in terms of the majority that we can ask into the next year and that's going to come out of what we ask for they're going to say we already gave you $30,000 what I need to clarify which I didn't ask is actually does it mean that we can't apply it won't affect any regional ask and it won't even affect another actually it probably won't because the way she actually said it won't actually affect us it did come up it's not going to affect whether we ask for more funding for something different it won't affect a regional request now that we have to reissue is there going to get the okay for the issue you are being out and really because it takes time because I need to my goal is to get this revised tomorrow and get it to them tomorrow or Friday because if we and I don't know how quickly I mean I'm going to beg Canada as quickly as she can turn it around because if we want to put out another RFP it has to get posted and go in and be submitted on Wednesday in order to be advertised on Monday I know this is how it works so it's just it's all the timing and then it's two weeks it has a minimum of two weeks to be advertised and then we have to open the bids and then we have to go through an interview process so again the last one it was super tight and I'm scheduling it the same way this time so I need to turn this around as quickly as possible Is that like March 9th or maybe the week of March 16th March 16th is the week I have in my head that's provided the state turns this around Everything goes perfectly March 16th which means that there's March April 16th May, June basically so it's okay we just need to think about it we're going to have to schedule the outreach and reserve space ahead of time that's an easy part that's not hard without them consulting with us about how many times we should meet we already have it but it's already in the budget we basically have 16 meetings total and the idea part of that was when I realized after when I revised the scope when we had CCA some of those meetings were meant to be for CCA which is why there's so many but now because the CCA got pulled out of the funding we still were left with all those meetings but that's not necessarily that's not a bad thing because you've been talking about doing sector work and it makes sense to sort of break up and do teams and that's one of the things the consultant that I spoke with who we've worked with before talked about community engagement doing teams that's what the city of Medford is doing so if you want to have an idea of the kind of thing I mean it's I don't know in my mind it's what we were doing from all the discussions we've had it's certainly how I envisioned it but city of Medford is kind of the model if you want to take a look at that just for one of their recent efforts that's kind of what we needed alright so I want to wrap up our discussion of this something that hasn't been said that you want to make sure that goes into the RFP so we can't pay them in advance for services to be rendered in the next fiscal year and you used to be able to do that with that grant they used to be able to because I said well can't we just get all the funding up front and just have it and then pay them out and she said it used to be that you could do that but they changed the rules and guidelines and now you can't so there must be a lot of other municipalities that are doing with the same problem well not necessarily because everyone's doing different projects they're not all doing a plan a lot of them they're like construction projects but they have to be shovel ready and even that type no? okay so you have our feedback yes I have your feedback okay great so thanks two minutes before 2 o'clock on Monday it was definitely an entity it's only none had arrived in the mail so we were watching the clock in the door like we ran in we had hearings hmm so the next item is to review the draft memo which I think already went I don't know why we would call it a draft memo wasn't that yours? no we already did that the draft memo from Laura to I assume the draft memo from Laura no it was a draft memo I could not add that item so I don't know who I did send an item in that I would love to talk about if we have time but we don't have to do it now who is the website, the outreach website okay let's wait on that skip I would like to give us a full 30 minutes to go through I think the ideas to go through another sector with a similar plan that sort of emerged from our conversation last time about electricity and I would suggest that we do buildings this time and just dive in and what do you think? I did find that our sector plans are in the packet of the July 17th meeting because this was confusing me that we were kind of reinventing the wheel when we had already gone through the sector plan so sorry July I think it's July 17th depends which sector they didn't all come in at the same time so maybe it was the 19th that was July that was 19 that night no it was nothing special was 17 we talked about sector plans over several meetings yes but a bunch of them did come in at the beginning so let's see what's in here that was the HFC yeah so those were the main questions that we were answering different from the ones that we're answering now someone drew a thing yeah Evan drew a thing and that was building it was before the retreat the retreat yeah it was definitely I mean I looked up you're missing the meeting the end of July maybe no because we did the retreat right the retreat was probably the beginning of August so maybe 715 was the last one so the one that says sector plans was only one thing that was just but yeah I just got it from the mail from Stephanie it was a packet there's the JC sector plan right there no look at that and it only was yours yeah yeah I've got a it's only two pages yeah it's only two pages then let's go to your these guys sector plan draft right yes yes yes can you email that to Stephanie that is a folder on my server called I love can you just email that document or a couple of it so yeah the question is just whether we want to use some of the information that we already put in there what is the building's I did and I think Dwayne did too a couple of different building ones it didn't show up in a later meeting I mean we might have had it we might have started it before but maybe we didn't I definitely saw the meeting Jesse's going to email it Stephanie so I'm just going to read the outline that Laura created for us while we did the electricity so starting with where are we now we have to start with data and so with buildings what would we want for the where are we now we would want information about energy efficiency work upgrades that have been done yes we have separate categories for municipal buildings and residential commercial buildings plus apparently we're covering all the colleges so what percentage of our town residents have had energy for your efficiency retrofits and upgrades I'm not just saying if there's a report on the previous solarized project that's just solar it would be nice to see what kind of results that achieved we know that we have the numbers of houses number of houses to the extent that there's information what percent of the houses are heated with different fuel sources that's in that's in the emissions it is but it's also I think based on state-wide averages which is it might be we weren't able to necessarily get it we've got that from energy saves I think they had access to data on their census data also so type of heating well you wouldn't know necessarily would know if they had gas or not you wouldn't necessarily know what they were using for heat I think so yes so how much energy efficiency work has been done um and what's left you know the gap analysis what's left to do um to yeah probably there's ways to get upgrades that require um permits I don't think I got a permit for replacing my heating system it was the same it was a new heat pump replacing an old heat pump they didn't have to do any change maybe they did so then we can get that that's good data our system isn't all that user friendly but we can run reports and I might be able to run reports but it's only going to cover those where there were permits so I mean if there wasn't a permit we can't just get all the data on every household but we can certainly probably get information this went through mess there must have been done right what's it for a heat pump or just an electric permit to do an upgrade on the electric system uh no it would probably reference a heat pump I would think I think it would be that specific but I can ask Tina do you search for heat pump as a key word I don't know if they can do that it may not do that I mean they can look at the electrical permits that were issued over it's number of times so I mean we know we're going to need this information but colleges now and say we want this information you know why do we have to wait on this for what information we're going to be we're doing this for the entire town right our climate plan includes the institutions correct? they already have their work that they're doing so we just basically want to tap into what they've got so we're not going to do the work for them oh we'll just take their whatever they've finished whatever the yeah we'll ask them for specific information and they'll supply it okay yeah so then but the idea of knowing the um heating load is what we really need I mean if we're talking about specifically residential do you know if it would be actually we looked at this on the assessment data whether you can get like square footage for the homes you can well sure you can that's in the but you don't know what's heated space right so I think that that gives us an idea of the kind of information we we want all of these three segments yeah I think a lot of the buildings actually do have heat bombs how do we measure the energy efficiency he took you to an EU a bill that had an EUI energy use intensity per square foot per year and that's a pretty common metric that you can use there's campuses that are doing this that have these inventories for the entire campus I don't know if you guys have this but do they have to do that building by building to get an EUI building by building can we estimate EUI based on square footage well you can assume an EUI and then get heat load based on square footage so this is interesting we're talking about what you're talking about doing basically doing a full inventory of every square foot of this town kind of well parks would probably be okay with us I'm not sure I'm not sure if that's a possible or a good idea if it was could it couple with an education or an outreach piece where we say to the town hey what's going on here tell us could it be citizen volunteer information as opposed to like a big brothery and hauling up every town and every source including this things where you don't try to do this just yourselves or even with the consultant this is where you do your outreach and engage the community and ask neighborhoods to do like team efforts and like get people to sort of organize maybe themselves to get data and maybe like there's a captain at each I mean we've talked about this a similar idea but I'm thinking specifically that the neighborhood does it themselves I don't know I'm sorry I'm adult with too much in data collection can not be done by volunteers I go on this exercise and basically looking and we decided to look at Amherst because we've been digging into some of the data so we did the best that we could with the permitted resources based on the Greenhouse gas inventory and extracting from there what we basically breaking down the building stock in Amherst residential multifamily commercial industrial schools municipal based on square footage we could find based on the inventory and for the student that I was working with it was sort of the best that we could do it's sort of a starting point and the purpose there we also got data from the inventory of what we was the best guess from the inventory the best data from the inventory was where Payne was in there something else was in there as well so I'm happy to definitely bring that forward share that as a starting point the idea there quite frankly with this model that we're doing is like that's where we are we want to get here and basically this model that I'm developing that needs some calibration if we want to get a percent reduction by year X and we're here and what's that path we look like we're not the model doesn't model well it'll penetrate you give and how much you want it to penetrate and then it'll spit out okay this is how what that looks like in terms of greenhouse gas reductions what it looks like in terms of additional electrical use because of their heat pumps for the for the town we just thought it could be a region generally and the greenhouse gas emissions it allows you to compare and suggest that some percentage of that penetration is going to be air source heat pumps ground source heat pumps or wood energy modern wood energy and you can choose policy makers to use it doesn't look like it also estimates more review of the inputs at least on the capital costs of those things operating costs of those things what does it mean in terms of investment money what does it mean in terms of reductions in operating costs it would be great to get a demonstration of that that's my purpose it's not quite ready for prime time when it is did you come up with ideas about how to make that happen how to accelerate things no that's not true it's your question I think that'd be easy that makes the question of why gather all this data yes that's exactly right you scrolled to the next page the 32nd version of that we don't hear so I got 9000 houses in town and oh that's the capital cost to 50,000 for retrofitting well I'm hearing numbers like 25, 50 and 100% reductions yeah well actually it's available reductions I mean if you have solar all sectors no that's right the numbers are 25, 50% that's including if you put solar on to offset and how much does it cost to put solar on yeah it depends so it seems like we need to add the element of how we're getting the community to move on this which in Cambridge they've had a succession of basically legislation starting with easy stuff with commercial landowners having to voluntarily disclose what their energy use is that's what that link is for they have an ordinance they have someone that can just make ordinances his name is Troy Moon he doesn't necessarily I'm sure he probably drafted an ordinance with people but I know him he's very active and he has his own office and he has staff and he's brightening the name are we jealous? no they just prioritize it but I think it's like the said this is like a priority so and Cambridge has done it so we need an action plan about how this is going to happen because it's not going to happen just naturally it's only going to happen if we push it before we were in Cambridge and other communities that developed a plan they had a space in voluntary a bigger push and then a requirement so there are online tools for this I know WeGoWise WEGO WISC they work with businesses or municipalities that are tracking how much is saved by this measure or that measure that they've taken so they can look easily and see the differences they've made all right and if we get zero net energy stretch in this legislative session which is now out there thanks to our senator that would help a lot when we do the community outreach a good question to ask the property owners is what has kept you from doing energy efficiency upgrades is it knowledge about the availability is it the funding that goes that would feed into what sort of solutions yes and that's the hardest piece is residential that can be residential I have commercial commercial property owners the same questions that's what my work is all about problems with the few commercial owners that have many many residential owners yeah it's mostly residential I'm not sure this time to bring it up about buildings and how to in the Gazette a couple days ago we were talking about major renovation major renovation reconstruction of the rolling hills really I mean it's starting to be planned rolling green I was getting mixed up and it's like it's like air conditioning units windows I'm sure I don't know what they have in plan in store for this renovation but I'm not sure what numbers the town has or this committee has are they working with what's it called used to be called HEP yes they used to be called HEP now it's Wayfarer Wayfarer they're they do that they do exactly this how do we find that out we have to make sure they're doing that yeah, Rudy I know I didn't see much about efficiency probably kind of caught some but also decreasing quality living you asked something that there's going to be a lot of work being done to help make sure that it's the right kind of work well so you know the outreach similar to the stakeholder sessions we had trying to go to these places and go and get these people involved you know these property managers you know and it doesn't necessarily even have to be just the owners but the property managers who are there and can make recommendations getting them on board to attend some of these sector meetings might be a good way to help educate the Wayfarer property managers are really good they're very progressive so did someone just say that no it's a question I actually don't think they do they do too they do butternut and Olympia they should be they do consult okay so there's one of those like low hanging fruit if we could just get there now and influence it without very much effort it's so frustrating how do we do it you know well no but they might do it anyway yeah well if they're contractors or the planners are not aware of state incentives then one way would be to help them become aware of this for the EPUBs yeah so the EPUB program and what I like about the link that you shared with us was there's a site there you can click on a thing and learn how that might be effective whether it's appropriate for you that's sort of geared for the homeowner but there must be people in the state oh oh yeah MassSafe has a whole commercial female beacon communities from Boston so beacon you go ahead I'm going to shut up I will try not to is that divisive it is beacon has been at Boston Community Capital they've been open to doing work on some of their properties over the years and there's people I think there's people who have lost community capital a lot of money is coming they're funding these things that seems like possibility I don't know seriously I don't know because beacon are the ones that are constructing the North Amherst huge development by Atkins North that's beacon North Amherst what's the first contact that they all have to make with the town in terms of renovations and construction planning board well it depends on what the permits that they'll have to pull so they'll have to come in it's never just one it depends on what they're doing and that may be already kind of late if it's in the paper it's probably already yeah my guess is they've probably already talked to people and so when people come here you know I'm trying to think of like you're saying what's the opportunity here well I mean it may be that now what would be useful is to like have information that can go right to people who when they're coming to pull permits or they're going to contact to the window that's too late they've already made a design they've already made decisions at that point how do we make that contact first I wouldn't listen to the process that comes in that we were talking about before that we wanted to really emphasize it going forward that happened by government to do that so yeah the opportunity to try to get that information out there I mean can we are we in a position to we have this committee just reach out to meeting properties and say that we read this we'd be happy to meet with you we'd like to meet with you again we'd have to sort of think about what is it we're going to pitch them but is there is that done we could invite I think the way that I could see doing that rather than be inviting them to come to meet with us at the next meeting or I think those are the sort of the more typical pathways of getting someone to come in to have a discussion like that I mean I mean yeah yeah but that's what I'm saying you invite them to come to a meeting to have you know we have these ideas and things that we'd like to share with you and learn yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah and we can push it as a learning experience for us learning from them yeah yeah let's do it how do we do it can you do it Stephanie or is it like a staff thing that you could do well should probably I think it would be better coming from Laura as chair and I could just I'll coordinate with Laura and I also I do want to run it upstairs first before I get myself in trouble I mean but Laura can't I mean again there are those things where maybe Laura decides as the chair of the committee and you all decide that you want to do that and I I'll just check if we can do it in a way that won't offend they probably have a sustainability you would hope yeah look it up do you know yeah all right I'm a little weedy so let's just go through some of the things that are on Laura's question so we did a lot on where are we now and I've been kind of writing down we've jumped around here but where do we need to go so that comes to what is going to be needed in the future what growth projections are there for more buildings different buildings big changes to buildings like rolling green and renovated and is there anything else about where we need to go with buildings well I think for all of these in general I think we need one of the things I noticed from our outreach efforts was I had there was a specific question I kept trying to pitch you know I think it was like describe the decision here's what we're proposing describe what this looks like and it drew a blank from everyone and I think in part of this where do we need to go some work and I think it's work with the community is like to as a community articulate what this world looks like and I think and because marching down the path towards something and because I think what it looks like numerically the numbers we're talking about culturally and societally politically and economically what that looks like is crazy pants for most people and so starting to come up with some of that language in those words what the world looks like that is percent 100% percent of that it's a really simple narrative prose is it and I'm even someone who's been like obsessing over this for probably 25 years I still don't know if I can describe what that world looks like but we can walk into buildings that look like what buildings need to look like we can show we can do zero energy home open houses and 80% of the homes they're going to be in their 25th time if they're already built or something so I mean I'm not sure one vision is that it doesn't look that different we all drive around same old cars we've got TV arrays out happy farm fields offshore wind coming in solar on all the roofs we're already seeing a lot of solar on roofs that's not that much different and you don't see insulation in your attic once it's there you have to do that but your life doesn't change so much you know could talk about it is disruptive while it's happening and then here's what your bill looks like I'd say your kid is not going to have asthma better indoor quality more comfortable spaces space can stay warmer longer when the heat goes off one way to do that would be to find a community that's gotten a lot of progress in that respect to me at least that's not the impediment to action it's more the practical things like getting around to it or having the money to invest in the heat pump and be convinced that I should do that just being organized enough to go to the credit union to get your loan I'm in the process of doing that right now and I've been putting it off for about four months because you know that's right so making tours of existing homes that have been extensively upgraded for energy efficiency having that kind of a tour being readily available to people not just once a year one weekend but multiple times I really want to have it be a home that didn't cost a gazillion dollars it's not a magazine it would be really nice to have you know to have an example of a ranch tile house an example of a like a mansion or whatever examples of different types of houses there can be different degrees of of extensiveness it could be whole or retrofits as well as here's we have the attic insulation attic right and there are such things there are tours there are tours but those are the ones I can go once a twice a year and sometimes there's one house here and there's another one I've always wanted to do one and it's someone who's dedicated to this and cares about it you haven't gone on the tour right do you want to? yeah you're coming up with the impediment who has time who has bandwidth and then it gets back to the it's not a choice anymore you're going for a building permit you have like this is now a zoning and building codes exactly yeah right the community outreach that I've always imagined was door to door and you know like the brush salesman let me open the suitcase and you know here's what it looks like to have internal store windows I'll reach that I shared with everybody to get everybody's buy in to join the big campaign for bringing down emissions in town having a competition saying we have a goal of 50% participation among the whole community and they can do all these different things one of which is this fundraising thermometer one that goes down that's a great idea that's a good idea smoke stackers so this is one of the things that EnergySaves is doing using that tool that isn't quite ready for it's in development still but we're working with those people who also develop the cooler communities program coolercommunities.org and that's having a community-wide schools waste management all the different sectors involved and the kids come the projects that their parents want to come see the results of and we hit them with a pledge form or this online thing that they do on their phones while they're going through I'd like to give bringing in the schools and getting the kids to convince their parents if you had mentioned totally do that in the school but having a major education campaign within the schools maybe a little bit beyond our capacity schools as kids to go home and examine every aspect of their own house give them an infrared to test their insulation that's how you change things absolutely kids drive change you know it's about also building partnerships with folks in town so for instance even finding a teacher at the schools who's willing to do this because we've been here before in terms of trying to engage with the schools on a curriculum and it's not easy you have to do it like two years ahead of time that's what I'm saying you have to build relationships so if you start cultivating relationships and getting people involved and maybe in either maybe part of the general community engagement piece just to get them to come and be part and participate so that they get excited about what's happening and they want to bring it back almost to let them be the idea of creating the curriculum I think they'll probably do it too these days there are teachers that are incorporating stuff about climate change in the curriculum it's just not necessarily specifically about the community there's also community-based organizations that have capacity to do a lot of this kind of work we don't have to develop all of that outreach and organizing capacity from scratch or in a house so I wonder how we can how are we leveraging those types of things thinking about schools was an act of sunrise chapter in Everest and at the end of school they're there, they have events they have stuff, it's a built-in space that the town can potentially plug information about opportunities to make individual lifestyle decisions co-loaded decisions etc into that's just one idea at the top of my head there's other ideas we're already grabbing them for things like the resident capital requests to kids from sunrise if we have ideas about additions to the curriculum the MTA has an annual conference it's not unusual for them to pass new climate-related curriculum every year because there's some activists that are pushing it so that could be something that could be added to the Massachusetts curriculum statewide and we have a lot of those activists right around here but yeah, that kind of outreach those conversations should start now, the school committee does want to work with us can we just like offer an invitation to them to send someone to our meetings I mean they want to have input into the plan as it will and how it affects the school district and how the school district will contribute so stepping back a little from this particular building's focus that is something that we've sort of danced around this idea of having kind of sector community support so having meetings on some regular basis with farmers and with landlords and with what is what are we going to do as part of our outreach but for just subgroups that can work on these pieces with us what would be what would be suggested to me to potentially go to the ag commission meeting this week oh, it was supposed to be yesterday and it got cancelled ooh so what does that look like can someone from this group go to the public and during I assume at the beginning of their meeting they do a similar thing can I stand up and say hey, I'm part of the new climate action just sort of extending an informal introduction that we're out here is what we're doing we think you guys play a critical role and be very positive with climate and farms can I represent this group in that way what are you going to say I don't know I'm more rambley I mean just to give awareness that we exist it's public comment so on the staff is on to the ACOM so I can put you on the agenda I would think for something like that you don't want to just show up as public comment I would suggest you get on the agenda and just sort of talk about if you want to talk about this committee and sort of the work we're doing and so is that and has that something that then you see a prefat about this committee what would be said not if you're just informing them of what our charge is what our goals are what we're in the process of doing I don't see why the committee would probably is that you do that but not like and maybe we do it to some other committees as well but not in the running contest yes it's my sense that all committee members are well equipped to to look at this public facing committee facing and if you feel like if you feel like going off you know some personal ideas they don't have to say I'm going to put my resident hat on now and you know I'm not speaking on behalf of the committee but what I'm saying this but blah blah blah whatever what other this is something else we can talk about what other town committees entities so I was in front of the historic commission the other day and they started talking to me about these issues historic houses they are excited to kind of be the kind of local historic district commission that is approving things that make history doesn't work I think but they had a very positive they're not just keeping the way it was they're bringing it to their regs something on solar panels maybe you got that in there that's great you should go to that committee to represent the DCS so there's two committees can we want to get into this let's just kind of brainstorm the other committees that exist that we should have a council that would be relevant are the community resources committee that is working on the master plan update to the zoning bylaw and there's going to be a new committee that's about to be created that's a city services committee so those two there's the JCPC which is the joint capital planning committee which will definitely have this resident capital request will go before the JCPC like citizens committees like the TAC transportation advisory committee planning board the ag com concom right conservation commission and you know like everything arguably is related to what we're doing but they are the big ones and the historical commission the CBA right the CBA the CBA design review board and the planning board are all kind of like well the DRB is advisory but the CBA has actually got a regulatory function right so CBA biggie they have pretty structured meetings yeah they do but there's still I mean there's time for a public comment and it's not that they don't have it's informal but are they in a position to be advocating for policies or are they just implementing rules and regulations I think you have to all decide what your goal doing these this outreach is so it's you know are you just educating or are you trying to advocate I mean I think honestly it doesn't make sense to go and advocate for them I think how that works is you all create something to them that's typically how that works we go and listen to get a sense of what are they doing and how are they thinking and just let them know by our presence and the few words we say that we're going to be doing a climate action plan and it will cover everything in town we want to work with them and you want their feedback on things I mean we want to it's like if you have something even if you're working on something you want to don't go to them with a finished product you want to go with them with something that's in development and say you know we'd like your input and feedback on what we're working on too I'm just going to say an invitation if they are working on something they could bounce off of us with regard to sustainability or greenhouse gas impacts then we'd welcome that number to I think part of the problem is that nobody except one person knows what we're doing and what I've noticed is that I find really helpful is that the planning board Christine Brestra sends out the agenda of every planning board meeting to at least the town council I don't know who else she sends it to but that's really helpful because otherwise I don't know why the planning board meetings are I don't know what's on their agenda but I think that if we send our agenda or our agenda and our minutes out to all those groups they would know what we're doing you know originally we had wanted to have staff from all those different departments on this committee like they have in North Hampton but we were told well you know they didn't want the money but you know like Guilford Mooring I'm sure he doesn't know what we're doing and and it just seems like it would be helpful for staff and other committees to like know what's on our agenda or I don't know how much that would tell them to see our agenda that's pretty general but at least it would I like this idea if we get part of the images for five minutes I think part of what's going on is we are in a town we're in a world where there's a lot of business as usual and if it's uncommon to have a guide we can say hey we're disrupting this a little but in a positive way we're going to be reaching out more and more as time goes on we're here I don't know something like that or do you know about our goals this is what they are do you know what it means how can we support you understand this and incorporate it what we could do so what the town council is doing is you know assign one of us to be a liaison to the different committees so that occasionally we would go or we'd get their minutes and we'd know technically these the goals are not their goals as well yeah exactly those are the town's goals just the intro and that's part of I mean as much as there's frustration and I'm an action plan this is also another reason why you have it too is that it's also in this process I mean we're talking about going to their meetings but it's also inviting them to get engaged in the discussions like the way we did with the stakeholder group there was representation from a lot of different departments and DPW was represented so was FIRE at the MVP planning so we're basically think about getting engaged as more of that engagement bringing people together because it's also getting them actively involved people came out of that meeting really excited do we want to have another internal municipal connection kind of when we have our consultants and we're doing this because that's part of the process one of our 16 meetings that's one of our 16 meetings and here's the question this is like should there be a climate action plan like if there's a master plan should the consultants be just laying all this into our master plan that's another discussion and I was actually realized that I meant to say something about that and we're getting to you know time and we need to ask for unforeseen items which we kind of were just talking about I wanted to did everyone get a chance to look at the mass energize it's a link to mass energize which is a tool an outreach tool that's being being beta tested in Concord and Wayland and it's just and here Energy Save is rolling it out in April in like Hadley not Springfield Pittsfield several other places in Amherst no you would know that so it is exciting in that it's a means by which the community can be involved and you know like I said the whole of getting in this one 50% of the community to sign up to be participating in the different actions and so there are different things that you can do like participate in compost etc it doesn't come up Concord Bans it's a new class I did actually talk about that time at our meeting and one of them is green heating in AC so people can sign up having done that or buying and leasing an electric car and you can have the data going in linked to your community so that we get the data so that we know what the commitments are and what the but I'm assuming that emissions of reductions can be connected to this it is it is already well the calculation is already in the system so this it will be interesting to see how much we think emissions can be reduced by 2025 by doing this right and then you have the follow up which is all the work the follow up meeting did you do what you said you would do oh these are not people that have done it we want to do that oh ok but I'm sure it's also people who have already done it right well this is an ad to do you can make it that way you can customize it for your community once they really get it down so yeah this is the best tool I've seen to do stuff like this there are problems with it but it seems like it's short of going door to door to every person's house in Amherst this is a way that we could draw people in and not for the outreach for the MVPs but just ongoing this could be part of our actual climate action plan that we're going to be doing this so who did they do this for it started in Concord it was a bunch of Concord greenies mothers up front and they had this big event they created Cooler Concord and they were just able to broaden it we did it in Agawam last year and they were just really big on the integrating systems and so it grew out of that event they did and then the programmer just kept going so did they purchase this program it's free so far it's just free so I just wanted to share that with people because I thought it was so cool so yeah I should remember to invite you all to go door to door at every house in Amherst but this Hadley's going to be doing this we should all go to I could rejoin you as a person you can contact you're a volunteer community coach for knowledgeable assistance in this important decision so that's kind of a nice factor it's not a contractor that you might have to be a little bit nervous about how much property Newton just hired a full time energy coach awesome oh wow yeah you need that it's hand holding work yeah it's like social workers like case managers case managers really I know I know I love that they have this provider black earth compost you know it's voluntary but they're working with this one group that compost does residential pickup and uses the compost locally so we should wrap this up can I just see something really quick about the master plan update so folks now and I'm sure Darcy is aware of this but the planning department is in charge of updating the master plan they're only bringing it up to more current information they're not redoing the whole master plan that is going to be happening in like another five years then they're going to be completely redoing the master plan so in terms of the work that we're doing right now what I suggested might be useful is that there's a way that when we have our climate action plan specific things link to the climate action plan so that there's some crossover between the two documents so it's not like it just references the climate action plan like it did in the past it actually has links to it because everything's electronic these days there might be specific things that are maybe recommended that would link to our plan as well so that there'll be some communication between those documents and that would be the easiest way to get that kind of incorporation of this effort into what's happening with that right now and that is they are trying not to update it too extensively but one area in which they're updating it to the extent that we have new policy or new plans that have come online in the last few years such as climate action so could I think I'd like to propose really they're doing the master plan five years that's the end of the climate action plan no it could potentially as an idea why would there be a separate climate action plan it's part of it it's incorporated into it so the master plan identifies the pathways so part of what we're doing the things the work that this group is doing and the group that the goals of the climate action plan will be incorporated into that but it's not necessarily there's two standalone documents folded in together it would be a lot it's a huge huge process and for them to do the level of detail that we're trying to dive into with our work we want to fold that into what's going to be done for the master plan we don't want to have them be two separate standalone documents and we don't want this to just suddenly become that because we'll lose a lot there's just not enough the northampton climate action plan as a subtitle an element of the town's master plan but it makes sense to quickly items for next meeting possibly school committee rep coming and having a conversation specifically about the role of school committee it's cross sector but that could be our sector time next meeting to talk about specifically that school buildings and vehicles everything so that's something public schools eat more food than any other group and probably waste more food right mvp update on the revised scope yeah it will have gone out already yeah you know put that in your packet at least yeah do you like that idea taking a break and going on to another sector and inviting school committee rep in that place agenda instead of doing a sector because I think we would want to spend a good half hour on it on the school related stuff talk about how to move together do we want to just this is a special invitation for one meeting are we inviting them to regularly come to our meetings that's a conversation to have it's not next time I think it was one time to invite them to have a conversation open conversation and consider the next steps after that okay so we're not ready for the invite to act or it's probably worth making it or talking with Laura and scheduling that because that could be two, three meetings out and could I suggest that this work that you're doing on you know all this sector work and discussions that you're having are really things that will be useful for the consultants so I think you probably want to keep that going as much as you can I agree with that okay generating lots of ideas and we need the action as soon as more meeting with these folks once we have the consultant on board yeah again all part of the community engagement 16 meetings we'll let Laura and Carrie talk and decide if she wants to just come and listen and not have a section of the meeting of course okay um and we won't have anything about the budget that's going to go there's probably things on bike rack your dog and pony I did a little analysis and I think it's actually we didn't talk about it today because I want to add a little bit to that I don't know how it compares with some other towns oh yes yes sorry I forgot it would be difficult to add in in the context of for all actual consumption yeah definitely this much yeah okay I'll have to go through my notes there's probably a lot of things is there anything else for the agenda we had talked about inviting the contractor for well and green but um doubt that's going to happen so but I mean I wonder too again the community engagement piece where if we actually go to rolling green and have one of the sessions like that's more the that's going to make sure as long as you get to be okay and if Laura I'd be happy to draft a letter for Laura to send that's not that major of an undertaking but oh how about more about our visiting so far we've just sent Jesse off to the ag in historic see if he comes back see if he comes back see if he comes back see if he comes back we'll put that on the agenda for next time discuss my future community all in favor