 Trust in medicine has been steadily declining. Today, it's in a state of emergency. How do we get here and what can be done to fix it? We've seen some great progress in medicine over the last 40 years from disease treatment to technological breakthroughs. How can we explain this dichotomy between innovation and trust? Is there a way to restore key relationships to reverse the trend? Rich, welcome to the show. It's great to be here, Drew. In 2018, ABIM launched the Trust Initiative. In an effort to bring industry stakeholders, researchers, and other policymakers into the same room to understand what's happening with trust in health care. What was behind this initiative? Well, as you said, Drew, trust in health care has really decreased dramatically. We think that's going to have implications for how much patients access the benefits of what modern medicine can give them. We hate to imagine a world where we have all these powerful tools and things we can offer patients and they don't come because they don't trust us. Why do you think this decline has been so pronounced in health care? I think it has to do with the way that medicine may have let relationships with patients deteriorate. We've become more distant. We've become more institutional. We've become less personal. And we've assumed somehow that our scientific facts will protect us. What does trust look like in the future when there's intermediaries between the doctor and the patient? Where it's not always just you sitting in front of me, but rather I'm delivering care using different types of technologies? Well, that's a great question. And technology and medicine have always been intimately related after all when the stethoscope came in in 1860 and people said, oh, that's a terrible thing. It keeps the doctor at a distance from the patient. Imagine two feet being a distance. Now you treat people across the world directly after a screen. That's right. So I think the key is to think about using technology as a tool that can build that. When you get into a car that you have summoned from an app, what are you trusting exactly? Are you trusting the app? Are you trusting the driver? Are you trusting the mapping program? The future in health care looks like using technology to enable and support relationships and to make people feel safe and cared for. I toured a brand new hospital opening in Dallas and they had in every exam room a giant TV screen. A patient had some code that they could put in on an iPhone and basically their family could call in and talk to them on the TV screen and their rural doctor from 200 miles away could call in and talk to them from the TV screen. You're actually saying we can use technology, we can leverage it to bring doctors and patients closer together? That's correct, we think about technology as a way to drive change, reorganizing care. That's why we got interested in trust because we think that doctors and healthcare, people who lead healthcare systems fundamentally care about it. Trust is at the core of the relationship between patients and anyone who's purporting to offer them healthcare. Rich, this has been a really interesting conversation. I think our viewers have really learned a lot as have I. Thank you. It's really a pleasure. Thanks for having me.