 exploring chiropractic. This is a show looking at chiropractic schools and anything related to chiropractic as far as students are concerned. So I'm Nathan Cashin, kind of the host of these shows, and I'm going to be talking to you tonight with Scott Dodds, who is a student at Logan University in the chiropractic and Masters of Sports Science programs. How's it going Scott? Good, how you doing? Doing great, thanks for joining me tonight. So it's finals week here at University of Western States, so I don't think we have a lot of people joining us. I was hoping to get, you know, four or five students that could ask their own questions, because the reason I started this thing is that as I talk with students and really as I've been looking at chiropractic for like the past 10 years, you know, I find students don't know much about the different schools. A lot of them think that's chiropractic school, same thing, you know, no matter where you go. And there's actually lots of people at my school who are talking about transferring to Life West, to Logan, to, you know, whatever it might be. But I know there's also students at other schools that are talking about transferring to other schools as well. So I don't know if people just pick the school that's closest to them, you know, and that's where they want to go or what. But so I thought we'd just talk about all the different schools. You know, I've got people from Life West set up and kind of reaching out and talking to people at other schools as well. So we're gonna start with Logan. But kind of before we do that, I do want to say I'm at University of Western States. You're at Logan University, but we don't represent the schools. We're students there. It's kind of a legal disclaimer in case anything comes back to bite us. So anything we say is just based on our experience. You know, we don't represent them. This isn't anything official. So I wanted to start out looking at the school, because this is really cool. Logan has an awesome web page and I'm gonna screen right now. I'm not sure if you'll be able to see it on your phone. I think you will. Yeah. Yeah. So great. I think there's a pretty new web page. At least the last time I looked probably was a couple years ago. And it's been probably about two years. Okay. And they've got a virtual tour. So this is what I want to start off with because it's awesome to see the school. And I've been to maybe five and I honestly think that Logan has the best campus. I mean beautiful. Just really gorgeous. What do you think? What's it been like for you? I mean, the school is beautiful. It's well kept. They do a really good job of maintaining it. And we're in the Midwest and you know, things are really green. It's really beautiful out here. Yeah. So yeah, it's really nice campus. So that you're looking out there is the Perthshire Center. They do that's where they do graduation do a lot of and then they rented out on the weekends for lots of dance, dance competitions, things like that. Oh, really? What kind of dance competitions do they do? A lot of like jazz and so a lot of companies come in there and they perform, then they also do like, then they actually have like bands and things like that to perform in there. Okay, cool. So let's see, that's kind of the parking lot over there. I remember this big quad. I mean, just really nice. Look at that water fountain. I love the bell tower. Yeah. Yeah, Logan originally was a monastery. Yeah, what is it? What is it with chiropractic schools in like Catholic buildings? So Western states used to be a Catholic girl's school. Yeah, so they kept a lot of the stained glass art in the library and the bell tower rings every hour. Oh, that's cool. So where's the library? Could we take a peek at that? Yeah, it should be in the administration first floor. Alright, so let's see, administration main entrance. This is so cool that you can just jump around. I've got a little pop up right here. So that's the entrance to the library there. Click on the circulation desk. Okay, like right on the on the pop up menu. Yeah, on the right. Yeah, right there. Oh, yes. So entrance to the library here. And you can click on the rare button and I'll take you closer, like green one right there. Click on that and I'll take closer to everything. Nice. Yeah, I remember hanging out for a little while when I toured the campus and just loving that that stained glass. That is pretty sweet. Yeah, it's pretty cool. Do you spend a lot of time in the library? Do you find? Or are you more of a study at home kind of guy? I try to stay at home. But when it when it gets really busy, I'll go in the library. When I when finals finals are week. I'm in the library a lot more. But I usually come home. Yeah, that's what it's like for me too. Although I find I get a lot more done at home. Yeah. Let's see the what else is in the and see I want to get out of the library go admin ground or I want to go check out the game room. Yeah, you can check out the game room. That's that's where I dominate everybody in ping pong. Is it? Oh, so I got to go admin building first floor. Yeah, I can find the game room. There we go. Yeah, and this again, when I when I visited, this was brand new. Yeah. So I mean, if you look straight straight up, you got all those TVs up there. Uh huh. Six of them. And you can check you can have each one playing a different station if you want. And then over on the wall, there's radios for the different TV so you can sit on there, you know, the table and listen to whichever TV you want to pretty cool. So they're portable radios? Yeah, they're portable radios like right over here, right there. Wow, okay. So yeah, nothing kind of like the cool. Drive in theaters. Yep. Cool. Got some foosball. Got some ping pong. Nice diner seating. Yeah, this metal. Is that anything particular? architecture. Yeah, air hockey billiards. So you're the pro ping pong player? Yeah. Cool. We played many a game in there. That's for sure. But now, now that now that I'm a lot farther in school, I don't have time to do that anymore. I yeah. So I thought this was kind of cool. The anatomy room. Now, I don't believe they have an image of the anatomy lab. Do they? No, I looked for it earlier today tonight. I'll try to see if I could find it again. But yeah, I looked around nice. I mean, I imagine just with you know, the regulations that go on with that kind of stuff that you may not be able to have it. But you can go into the amphitheater entrance, which is where they do the the they the teacher will teach us how to do the dissection. Okay, which building was that? Is that science and research building? Okay, let's head on over there. And pull up the amphitheater entrance to the anatomy amphitheater. Okay. So if you go right there, right? Yeah, so that's where they'll they'll go through the teacher will go through the the dissection what we're going to do for us. And they've got up above they got a camera that'll shine down. And you can watch on the monitors to see exactly what she's doing. So did they bring a cadaver into here? Yep, they'll bring a cadaver into here and okay show us what we're supposed to be doing. Okay, so they have like an overhead camera, they'll go through the dissection first. Yep. And then you go in. Is this a like a web camera here? On the wall there? Or is that? Yeah, that's one of the cameras right there. Okay. So what is what is the dissection program like how many you get to do a full dissection? Yeah, we did the we did full body in a group of like five people's three or four. Okay. And how many? Sorry, so you're on a trimester system, right? Yeah. Okay, and we're on quarters here. We have 10 trimesters in the first two trimesters, we were in the anatomy lab with the sections. You say three or two? Two. Okay, so that that's about equal to what we do because we do three quarters. So cool. And I mean, like head to toe, do you do it by section or do you do by section kind of by layer? Yeah, the first the first semester, we dealt more with the musculoskeletal lower extremity upper extremity. And the second semester, it was all about like internal the abdomen, head and neck, brain stuff like that. Awesome. Let's see, I think I want to get out. After I think anatomy is one of my favorite things. And I remember the lab, even though we can't see it on here. Remember it being really nice. Yeah, it's really nice. Let's see, I think I wanted to go. Let's check out actually, where's the field? I want to check out the field and the let's see. Go to parking lot nine. Parking lot nine. Yeah. And you can check out the ball field as well as the wellness center. Yeah, so you've got this is pretty much a full baseball field. Yeah, and then a soccer field as well. Yeah. Yeah, very cool. Whatever whatever you want here and then back in the back past the ball field we got a bill and a billion with grills and so we do some of our activities back there. Oh, I should check that out. The volleyball course back there basketball court. May find that. So is that is that showed on here? Yeah, if you look to the left just a little bit that little pavilion. Oh, okay, I see. Way in the back. That's the right back here. Yeah, way back there. Okay. And then right past the soccer goal right there is volleyball courts and stuff. So and volleyball. Do you have to play a lot of Ultimate Frisbee? I don't know what it is about. Ultimate Frisbee is popular. We did first few tries and it's just got really busy and it gets so hot here during the summer. It's just crazy. All right. Hell the fitness center. Yeah, this this is pretty, pretty, pretty new. They remodeled. I mean, we've had it for a while, but they remodeled it recently. Okay, it looked a little different than from what I remembered. Yeah, so they they just opened it up because there's a wall right past the the treadmill there in the middle there. Okay, they just opened it up a lot more. And there's actually this is not totally correct. It's right in front of treadmills. Now they have TVs like hanging from the from the Okay, yeah, just like at LA Fitness or whatever. Yeah, let's like really good equipment. Lots of free weights too. Yeah. Cool. And I noticed you got cool. Cool hardwood floor back here. Do you do any ballroom dancing on that? No, I haven't. I haven't ballroom dancing forever. Yeah, I've kind of given up to I guess we should say we used to compete together. Actually, we used to compete against each other. True. We won't mention any specific competitions, but awesome. All right, any other highlights of the campus tours? Take a look at? Um, you should look at the health centers. Okay, so this is your clinic. Yeah, this is clinic. This is where I spend majority of my time now. So you're a ninth trimester. So you only have one more to go. I'll be done in December. And so when do you pretty when do you start kind of full time into the in the clinic into the clinic? Well, in trimester seven, we're in the student clinics. So we're treating students and their families and try eight, nine and 10. So for a full year, we're in what they call outpatient clinic. We're treating patients. We bring in our own patients, treat them. So do you have to go out and kind of recruit your own patients? Yes. Is that kind of expected? Yeah, they expect us to. There's there's also walk-ins. Just people come walk in. They do, you know, depending on who's next on the list, we'll get the person who walks in. Yeah. But I've brought in most of mine. Currently, although the CC is changing everything with numbers and everything, we still currently have numbers that we have to hit for graduation, which aren't that bad. But I've fortunately, I've already hit online. So it's not a big deal. So if I understand right, because I'm not in clinic yet. But as of right now, you need to have a certain number of adjustments, certain amount of specific treatments, but they're going to change that to competencies. Is that right? Yeah, yeah, it depends. I mean, some schools have already been like that. It depends on what school you're going to. We're still until I don't know when they'll continue to apply numbers. We're required to bring in 10 new patients. What that means is not you come in once and that's good enough. You have to manage the case. And so you have to do at least 10 of those 200 adjustments in the year. Certain amount of x-rays take in physical exams and physical therapy things. So fortunately, no, it's really not that hard. And I finished mine just just after the first trimester finished. So okay, didn't take too long. Not really. I mean, some people it takes him the whole the whole year. I just kind of worked a little bit harder to get all my stuff done. Yeah. I noticed this table here. I don't think I've ever seen one quite like this. It's an activator table. Activator table. I do. I do not do activators. So but yeah, that's an activator table. Okay, diverse personator. You do what? Diversivator, diversified activator. Oh, I haven't heard that combination before. I just take the activator tool and do diversified with it. Okay. Cool. So I wanted before we kind of get into some other details that I want to hit, kind of want to back back out and tell me about the city. What's it like living in St. Louis area? Because honestly, Logan was at the top of my list of schools to go. And after visiting after talking with some people, I just couldn't see myself living in in St. Louis. How's it been for you? Because I came from the West, not having the mountains kind of sucks. But overall, we love St. Louis. It's got it's got a lot of a lot of cool stuff. Midwest is beautiful. Nice. There's a lot of family stuff. The zoo is free. There's a lot of free stuff that you can do as families. We have our zoo is our destination. Second to San Diego, of course, that's where I'm from. We have a science museum. It's just free. We've got the St. Louis Cardinals here, which I mean, there's there. Some of the best fans in the nation are definitely here in St. Louis. They're probably a better team than San Diego. I don't know. I don't follow. That's baseball, right? Are really good. And their fans are are loyal. And so the city is really nice. So Chesterfield is where the school is in the West County. It's one of the nicer, richer areas. Because you get up north and the other side of the river in St. Louis, and it's one of the dangerous cities in the nation. Okay. Yeah, definitely got different neighborhoods like like everywhere. Now you are you're very close to is it Mizzou? Which university are you close? We're about an hour and a half away from Mizzou. Okay, but then there's another one within I want to say 10, 15 minutes that you work with in the master's program, at least he used to. We work a little bit with Missouri Baptist. That's what it was. University, but we mainly work with Mizzou now. Okay, so tell me about the master's program. So I'm looking now in the bio freeze. Yeah, sports science facility. Okay. The master's in sports sciences, continually, continually growing, it's growing all the time. So it's been been really, really good. So that's, that's kind of like a separate clinic from the other clinic. We do a lot with a lot of athletes. So you're not going to bring in your sorry, you're not going to bring in just your average patient in here? No, we definitely can't. It's available to us. Okay. So because the bio freeze clinic, which is right there, the sports clinic, and the other clinic, they share hallways and share right much everything we could bring patients in there. But it is specifically for the the interns that work in that clinic. So we do a lot. We deal right now, we're dealing a lot with track athletes. A lot of high school track athletes. I had the opportunity to work with an American record holder in the hammer throw and shop with helping her with her training and recovering from little issues that she had. And so we've been able to work with a lot of a lot of big people. We've had several of the St. Louis Cardinals players come in for use certain aspects of clinic, including our x-ray in ultrasound department. It's one of the the chiropractor for the St. Louis Cardinals is one of our teachers. Okay. And then the director of the sports science program is Dr. Lanny Nelson, who was the chiropractor for Brigham Young University for so many years. And it's currently a chiropractor for Mizzou. So now I understand he's announced his retirement. Yeah, he's heading back to Utah to open up shop again and open up clinics. His son is here at Logan. So he'll be done a semester after me in April. So they're gonna go in business together. Yeah. Yeah, I know Lanny very well. I've known him for a number of years and visited with him a lot. And when I came to the school, it was on a weekend, I think, when I came to Logan to visit. And he took me around and we're we hung out here. I think he gave me a cold laser therapy right here. Probably sat in that bench right there and had it on my foot. So it's a little bit different than when you when you first came here because they remodeled this about a year and a half ago. Okay. So those offices back in the back where you were looking is that's all new. That's where Dr. Nelson's office is. So we just got a lot of different, different things in here. A lot of new things are pretty cool. When you get a lot of experiences from a lot of people, every Tuesday we go to Mizzou. Dr. Nelson takes kids to Mizzou to treat the athletes down there, which is pretty cool. Awesome. Really just a beautiful camp. Sometimes I when I look at that, I kind of wonder whether I should change it. So what's what's been your interest in the master's program? What was your original intent? Original intent was possibly working for university to be be there to Chiropractor. I've kind of shied away away from that a little bit just because my model and where I want to practice is small town. So I won't be working with the high elite athletes. I still definitely want to work with athletes, but it will be more the junior college, high school type kids. But I just wanted because I grew up playing sports. That's why I did my whole life. The reason I got wanted to get into Chiropractic was because I was helped through sports with from a Chiropractor. It's kind of what I wanted to do. But so that's that's for me. That's how it was. But yeah, we have a lot, a lot of people who are in the master's of sports science. We have people who are going to work for a lot of the different SEC schools to be Chiropractors for them, which is pretty cool. Yeah, that's awesome. I think my desire was kind of the same as that. I was, you know, never a really great athlete who played soccer, did track, did cross country. But as we mentioned, used to dance and so got really interested in kind of the athletic training aspect of it. And so Western States and Logan are the only two schools that offer these masters in sports medicine. Of course, at any school, you can get the CCSP, which is a certified Chiropractic Sports Physician. Okay. And so I want to come back to that. But the feeling that I got from Logan, and I'd like your kind of your input on this is it kind of turned me off that it was working with, you know, the football players at a big university and and they mentioned, you know, working with a lot of pro baseball. And like you said, I don't really want to work with the pro athletes, they kind of want to work more with weekend warrior types, maybe youth. And I kind of changed my mind when I visited the Olympic Training Center, a couple months ago, in that, you know, Olympic athletes, they're not, they don't have million dollar contracts, they're still trying to make it, you know, they're going to work with you maybe a little bit better. But I don't know. So what do you think is is your program focused on that that pro sports? Oh, no, no, absolutely not. I mean, we do a lot of a lot of high school, a lot of the people that go into that that sports clinic are weekend warriors, people who just have extremity issues, knees, shoulders, ankles. So no, it's not it's not specifically for the pros for the big, the big time. Certain people want to do that. And they have a great avenue for that because Dr. Nelson has got a lot of connection so that it is easy for them to go that route because he can, he can call his friends and get them positions. But no, I mean, there's a lot of us who are going to go to junior colleges and deal more with other types of athletes. I do remember that one thing from Dr. Nelson was just that he seemed to fight for, you know, for his students who just he works incredibly hard. I think I remember he didn't tell me this, but I'm sure someone I met at the school mentioned how he worked as I think a janitor during the night as he was going to chiropractic school and graduated without debt. And you kind of get that from him. He's he kind of is nonstop and just got his hand so many different projects. So speaking of working while in school, have you given that a shot or have you just relied on, you know, student loans? No, I mean, I worked here and there on campus not not much. I do know a lot of people who have and it's been okay. It's just I mean, so hard when you've got 30 plus credit hours. And I rather spend time with my family. So I haven't worked as much, but I do know a lot of people have worked. And it's been fine for them. And it's worked out just fine. So you've had some just on campus student jobs? Yeah, yeah, here and there. I just right now in the clinic, I'm one of the group leaders. So I'm basically in charge of all the other interns in the clinic, making sure that what they're doing is is right and make sure notes are good. The notes on their patients and things like that. And I get paid for that. So I mean, it's it's work study. So it just takes off my lungs. That's pretty cool. So you have upper trimester students that are kind of supervising in the clinic. Is that kind of what you're doing? I don't think we have it. We just work underneath the clinicians and kind of do what they want us to do pretty much. That's pretty cool. Yeah, I think we have I know four or five, you know, graduated DCs that kind of run the clinic. So that's that's an interesting aspect to that. Yeah, we have four, four operating clinics. And so we have several different areas we can go. Are those all on campus or you have some off campus clinics? No, I guess we have technically have five clinics with the bio freeze clinic, the sports clinic. No, the other three are off off one south and then there's two that are more north. So in the community kind of reaching out and get other people cool. Very cool. So what is what is family life like for you? It's good. I mean, St. Louis is a great place to have a family. Like I said, we've got a lot of stuff that the city provides that are free for for families. And so the zoo is amazing and to not have to pay is really nice. They've got Botanical Garden Science Museum, History Museum. The original World's Fair was here in like 1903 or something like that. So it's really, really big park that offers a lot of stuff. And so there's always something to do. A lot of parks, a lot of a lot of parks. And so family life is really good here. Do you practice a lot on your wife or does she not allow you to do that? That's a big deal with married students. No, she likes me work on her at least once a day. Really? That's awesome. No, not not that often, but she likes to have probably two or three times a week. She's open to a kid. And how about the kids? The youngest I treated, I mean, so my oldest is two and a half. I've been treating him since he was probably a couple weeks old. He doesn't always love it, but what it gives me practice on on a little kid and then this new one is three and a half weeks old. I treated him for the first time when he was probably two days old. Wow, really young. I've been reading a lot lately about kind of different feelings out there about treating children and in the worries about their bones not being hardly developed at all. And I don't know, it's it's interesting. I'm not too concerned about it. Well, I mean, I don't I don't do any any high-velocity thrusting. It's more with the upper cervicals, you know, C1 atlas. It's more of a vibration rather than a thrust. And then with the other stuff, it's more soft tissue, you know, just different techniques that I've learned along the way. Logan is was founded on Logan basic, which is a high, you know, just low force technique, which uses the sacred tuberous ligament to help align the spine. It's a really good technique that helps a lot of people specifically, pregnant people, and babies. And so that's what I've done with my kids. So what other techniques are taught? So I understand Logan basic and diversified are kind of the main bread and butter kind of techniques. Yeah, those are the two that are required by the university to be taken. Then beyond that, we're required and try seven, eight, and nine to take at least one on our technique. So we offer, let's see, we offer SOT, Thomson Technique, Cox Flexion Distraction, Activator, Graston, Graston and soft tissue, let's see what else. Upper cervical, ART, there's a couple others I can't remember right now. Applied kinesiology, basic, advanced diversified. There's a couple others. And then there's all the seminars that people go to. So all of those that you listed are actually electives you take in the curriculum? Yeah, I mean you have to take at least one for tries seven, eight, and nine. And then you can take one weekend course during seven, eight, and nine. So my first and try seven, I took Thomson and Graston, and last time I took Cox Flexion Distraction. And currently I'm taking SOT. And then you've got all the seminars that you can take. And you can go somewhere they come to the school and they'll do seminars there? Most of them are around in the area, not actually at the school. Okay. So you kind of have to seek them out on your own and go out. Awesome. Very cool. Well, I'm kind of running out of questions. I think that covers a big chunk of it. Well, actually let me bring this up. Because I think people are trying to get away from this, but there's the Straits versus Mixers kind of continuum. Yeah. Of course a couple schools like western states, I think national or I think it's national, you know, claiming to be evidence-based, you know, not the straight. And then at the other end, maybe you've got Sherman and Wife. I mean, where would you say you fall? I think a lot of the schools now say, you know, we're evidence-based, all that stuff, but where do you think it falls? We're more in the middle, but we're leaning more towards how western states is becoming evidence-based. I know there's some things possibly in the works at Logan to do some things that are different. Obviously, that's not done yet. Oh, I think I'm kind of losing you right now. It froze up. Well, I can't hear you. You can't see you, so I'm just going to talk a little bit and hopefully you'll come back. But I did just notice when you get a drink of water, and I've got my Logan paraphernalia here from my visit. I actually think this is a free cup from, you know, them coming to my school and doing their college thing. And I think I have somewhere, hang on, just a sec. Yep. This is also from my visit to Logan. I've got my perfectly adjusted Logan College of Chiropractic. This is before they became a university, and on the back has a spine. Of course, I cut it up because I use this for palpation. But yeah, that is another thing I've got. That one, people get confused because the spine is sideways and looks like you're scoliotic. I get chiropractors and athletic trainers complaining about that. But anyway, got my paraphernalia from Logan, but I didn't let them going. But it is just a gorgeous school, really great program. I love the master's program that they're doing there, it's really well continually growing and beautiful buildings, beautiful facilities. And I think we're getting Scott back here in just a second. Sorry, bud. Hey, there you are. That's all right. I'm filling in the space. I was sharing my paraphernalia from Logan that I got when I visited. Hey, nice cup. Yeah. All right. So anyway, just so from straights to mixers, do you think you fall in the middle, but you're kind of leaning towards a little more evidence-based focus? And what's your plans for practicing? Are you going to stay in the area, you're going to move back to Utah? No, actually next weekend I'll be headed to back to Idaho to talk with a doctor that I've been in contact with who wants me to be in his office. He plans on retiring within the next couple of years, so he would like me to purchase his practice. So it's in my hometown, so I'll be going there. Hopefully we'll start talking contract and things like that. So I'll be an independent contractor, just leasing space that he's not using. He's got a whole side of the building he's not even using, so use that side and buy him out when he's ready to leave. So that's your hometown? Is that where your wife's from as well? She's from Kansas City, so we'll be moving away from her family, but closer to mind and closer to the, I mean, her most first sibling to live in Utah, so we'll be closer to everybody else. Cool. So you mentioned you kind of plan on working with sports. Do you have any other kind of goals for the practice that you want to build? I would like to, you know, I'll take anybody in my practice. I'm happy to be more and willing to work on babies, on geriatrics. So no, not really, no niches I want to hit. I'll really work on anybody. I would like to be a family doctor, you know, for a lot of people. I mean, I've got future plans, things I want to do, possibly open up more satellite clinics and things like that, but we'll see. Awesome. All right. Well, thanks again for meeting with me tonight. I got to get back to studying for gross anatomy and our Injustice Skills tomorrow. But for those of you watching, check out exploringchiropractic.com or the Google community, which right now is student, chiropractic students, to keep up with what's going on and what other schools we're going to be talking about. And I think we've got someone from Life West coming up soon, as well as Palmer and possibly National University as well. So exploringchiropractic.com and there's a Facebook group. There's a Google community. It's probably the best place to keep tabs on what's going on. So thanks a lot, Scott, for joining me and sharing Logan University with us. No problem. Thanks, Nathan.