 I'm Marcia Joyner and we are Navigating the Journey. Navigating the Journey is dedicated to exploring the options and choices for the end of life care and to assist people to talk about their wishes. It's time to transform our culture so we shift from not talking about dying to talking about it. It is time to share the way we want to live our lives at the end of our lives and to communicate about the kind of care we want and don't want. We believe that that place is to begin here and now and not in the intensive care unit. So together we explore the various paths to life ending and together we can make those difficult conversations easier. Together we can make sure our own wishes and those of our loved ones are expressed and respect. So if you're ready we ask you to navigate the journey. Today we have a young member, I think he's the youngest member of the legislature and one of the newest. He is also and everybody knows I'm a political junkie and I probably never said this before but he's also a hero. He's a cancer survivor and a coach and his kid said in writing that he was their hero and if his kids say teenagers say someone is a hero that is just the best thing and for a politician that's gold. No I'm not on his campaign staff but I do want you to meet Representative Chris Todd from the Big Island and he is the newest, no second newest. Yeah with the new appointment of Mr. Learmon. When Cliff Suzy died last year, I guess it was no 16, the year changed, he was appointed by the governor to take his place and I can't imagine that there was a better candidate. When your own community says this is a hero, I mean what choice do we have but to have a politician which has become a dirty word to be felt like that by their community. So welcome Chris. Thank you for having me here. And so now that I've told all about you and he is also a cancer survivor and we love cancer survivors, so tell us about Chris. Great, well I'm Chris Todd and I like to describe myself as the new guy and prior to being appointed, I was born and raised in Hilo, went to public schools, I'm a third generation graduate of Hilo High School and my degree at UH Hilo is in economics and political science and pretty much the day after graduation I went to work actually at a Suizan fish market which is a very old kind of institution in Hilo and eventually ended up managing their operations on the retail side where we made the poke and dry fish and all that stuff. The big New Year's Eve. Yes. So even though I kind of grew up in politics because my mom was on the county council, still that transition from the fish market and I was working for a paper product distributor to the legislature is pretty substantial. Wow. So you've lived most of your life and not all of it on the big island? Yeah, pretty much the only time I've been out of state other than on quick trips. I was in Las Vegas for four or five months for a semester of college and then ran right there. Oh, that's the 51st state. We don't count. Yeah, we don't count. Yeah. So what made you decide that you wanted to take Cliff Suzy's place? So it's kind of a strange story. I think what happened for me personally is I was hesitant even though I always felt that calling in a sense, but the presidential election and Donald Trump and that whole thing, it really, really bothered me. So I went to my family and I wanted to get more involved thinking a few years down the road, you know, maybe if Rep Suzy was going to retire, we could have that conversation about running maybe in 2020 or 2022. But the day that I'm meeting with my family to have this conversation, we find out the Rep Suzy had passed away. It was that morning. So, you know, I kind of deferred to my uncle and my mom guys and they said you should put your name in because it's good to let people know you're interested and to go through the process, but there's no chance you get appointed. And then I got appointed. So here I am and, you know, last year is kind of, you know, kind of right in front of the fire hose in a sense, you know, getting a full exposure to everything that the legislature has to offer, but I'm feeling a lot more comfortable now having gone through that process. So what committees are you on? So for this upcoming session, I'll be on the finance committee. I'll be the vice chair for the water and land committee and also serving on energy and environmental protection. And human services, health and human services. So the past session, I was on human services, health and consumer protection. But transitioning this year. So you're not on health and human services? No, not for this upcoming session. But yesterday they had your name. I think that was kind of a relic. They haven't made the official change, but that's going to be my new positions for this upcoming session. Oh, OK. I was looking forward to you being there. When I saw the, you know, they left, wrote, lined up the names. Right, right, right. Yeah, so the change should become official sometime in the next few days. So we don't know who's on your place. I know Lay, yeah. I know a player month's going to be there and some of the prior members. But I'm not sure on the specific makeup. I don't know if they've, you know, fully, you know, completed that process yet. So on land and water and what else? Environmental protection, as well as the finance committee. Oh, well, everybody's on finance, right? The 15 of us, quite a few. So now, of course, as you know, our program is dedicated to the end of life processes and care. And for the last year and a half, we have had people from every walk of life, ministers, rabbis, imams, priests, everybody to talk about the end of life in their culture, in their ethnic group, how people deal with it and what have you. Tell me, this is not political, I mean, I don't, tell me, are you Hawaiian? No. So, my family's origin story in a way is complicated. No, because I was going to ask, is there a tradition in your family of the end of life? I think we're pretty, I guess when you consider like an average, you know, local family in that sense, so probably, you know, burial or cremation. But nothing, nothing necessarily tied to a host culture or anything like that. Yeah, so for me, I thought the Japanese Buddhist was the best, even though I'm not obviously not Japanese or Buddhist, but they celebrate with the dying person while he or she is still with us. And they do all the things that the Christians do in a funeral. They do with the patient. They tell them how much they care for them and what they meant in their life and all of these wonderful things prior to their passing, so that it is a pleasant passing. And the imam, the Muslims said that they tell stories and get the person ready to go to wherever that is. So that was what I was asking, if there's anything special your family does at the end as a person? You know, not off the top of my head. So I'm not sure exactly, I'm sure it's kind of similar up here in Oahu, but a lot of times funeral services on the Big Island, they're a very big food event. So that's usually what people talk about after the fact is the food and what kind of spread there was. Local people won't forgive you anything if the food is good. Yeah, but during the actual dying process, I've been very fortunate. For my mom, her parents passed away when she was a teenager. So she had to go through that process at a very early age. But for me, I've been kind of insulated from that. My parents are still around. And even though my grandparents have all passed away, none of them were in Hawaii. They were in Japan and on the mainland. So I haven't had to deal with that on that personal level in the way that a lot of people have by my age. Yeah. So, excuse me, I really don't like not being well. Anyway, so now with this bill that's before the legislature, medical aid and dying, and there's so many misnomers, tell me what you think or how you feel about it. This is, you know, I'm not asking you to vote, I'm just talking about, you know, personal. What do you feel? So I think for me, it comes down to, you know, personal freedom. And, you know, from that perspective, obviously if I'm in that sort of situation or if I love the ones in that sort of situation where they're in pain and, you know, they're terminally ill and they know the end is near, I would like them to be able to go out on their own terms. And so for me, that's what this issue is about. It's preventing human suffering, but also allowing people that last choice. You know, we allow choice in so many other areas, but not at the end of life right now. And what we've seen is that in other states where they have similar legislation, it's a relatively small number of people who actually utilize the process. But it definitely can be a very comforting feeling for those families, knowing that they don't have to go through that end of life, pain and suffering the same way that they would otherwise. Yeah, we're going to take a break and we'll be back in 60 seconds. And at that time, if we can really go through the drill and see if there's anything that you felt uncomfortable about, OK? We'll be right back. This is Think Tech Hawaii, raising public awareness. Is it a feeling? Is it a place? Is it an idea? At DiveHeart, we believe freedom is all of these and more, regardless of your ability. DiveHeart wants to help you escape the bonds of this world and defy gravity. Since 2001, DiveHeart has helped children, adults and veterans of all abilities go where they have never gone before. DiveHeart has helped them transition to their new normal. Search diveheart.org and share our mission with others. And in the process, help people of all abilities imagine the possibilities in their lives. Aloha, welcome to Hawaii. This is Prince Dykes, your host of The Prince of Investing. Coming to you guys each and every Tuesday at 11 a.m. Right here on Think Tech Hawaii. Don't forget to come by and check out some of the great information on stocks, investments, your money, all the other great stuff. And I'll be your host. See you, too. Aloha, and we're back. And we're talking to our new hero. I never thought I'd say that about a politician. But it's a pleasure. This young man, Chris Todd, from Hilo, from District 2. And for anyone that's counting, Hilo number is our first district, of course. Yeah, the North Hilo, the Honolulu call, yeah. It begins with District 1 and ends here in Honolulu in Waimanalo with District 51. That goes up, then around, and back. Not that anybody cares. But so we're talking about medical aid and dying. And last year, Chris was on the committee that heard the bill in the Health Committee. And so I would like you to tell me your feelings about if there was something that wasn't clear, that should have been clear, if we can answer any of those questions. Because if you didn't understand, I'm sure this part of our audience didn't understand. So can you tell me those? Sure. So I think for me, my interest is making sure that once we put this policy into place, that it can survive, that it's here for the long haul. So with that in mind, I try to identify certain areas of risk, where let's say that certain part of the bill, as an example, you would get this prescription after this pretty lengthy evaluation process to make sure you're mentally competent. Would you take the prescription home? You administer it home? So my concern is maybe someone uses this prescription for medical aid and dying, but it changes their mind, or something strange like that happens. And they go through this medical emergency, but they don't have a physician there. They don't have a nurse there, or anyone from law enforcement who could care for them. So while I believe that even in the previous form of last year, that the pros definitely outweigh the cons, and that this is kind of like an extreme scenario, my preference would be that there are a few more regulations in place, and that the paperwork and accounting for a lot of the stuff is a little bit more stringent. But with that being said, even in its current form, in SB, I think it was 1129, it's still a net benefit. I just want to make sure that this is protected, so that if you have a high profile case, that it doesn't derail the whole thing. Well, a lot of that happens in the health department when they go through with all bills. And then it never looks, never. Anyway, you're saying about somebody being with them, and that's fine. There's no problem with someone being with them. It's just that someone cannot administer it. Correct. Now, for anyone that says, why not? There is a law on the books that says, no matter what condition you're in, if I assist you in dying, I am charged with manslaughter. So to protect the doctor, the nurse, we cannot. It's very difficult. Yeah. Unless, of course, we go and work at changing the law. Which, Attorney General said, that's what we need to do. Because he's agreeing, like you, he's agreeing that, yes, we want somebody with them, but they cannot assist. That's where you get into liability in a little sense, even, yeah. But that's when you don't want someone that is love going to help you out of love and then be charged with manslaughter. Definitely. So that's, I know, that's crazy. But that's part of the problem. Yeah. No, I think anytime you're dealing with something as complex and emotional as death, I think you're going to have issues pop up. So there's no such thing as a perfect piece of legislation. You know, I was prepared last year with that legislation to pass it, at least until the next committee with some of our concerns issued. But hopefully this session, we have something reintroduced or work being done on that existing bill to take care of some of those details to make it a little bit more palatable. But I just want the end result to be sustainable, I guess. But one of the things that the evangelical Christian right has said repeatedly is that this is physicians assisted suicide. It is neither physicians assisted nor is it suicide. If I have cancer, which I have had, the cancer is eating up the body. You're not committing suicide. It's you have all before you can get the prescription. You've already reached the point where there's nothing we can do. It's inevitable. Yeah. Nothing we can do. Yeah. But they keep telling that and they keep talking about old people. Well, okay, I am old, but does that mean it's terminal? We're all terminal. Yeah. But just being old doesn't meet meet the requirement of the bill. And then they talk about the handicap. Handicap is not terminal. But they keep saying it's over and over again. That's why I'm going with this, with asking you these questions. What else other than those obvious things? What else? Anything else that jumps out at you that says maybe we need to fix this? Well, I think for me that was the major issue, actually, was more of the paperwork and some of the fine-tuning, some of the details. I know I had a lot of advocates for the disabled community come in and talk to me, but I personally, I don't see that in the future. I know they're concerned about this being expanded later on, but I don't see that happening. I mean, you can see with our own reluctance to pass even something as limited as this, where you have to be within the last six months and you have to pass all the mental competency exams. So I feel like that's not realistic. And a lot of the cultural concerns, I understand. But I think this is the difference for me between this and other very complicated issues is that this isn't something that directly harms anyone else. This is an individual choice, like I said, it prevents suffering at the end of life. And for me, if you're doing no harm to those around you, you should have those personal freedoms. Let me explain to our audience who have not read the bill. It says clearly that you have to be terminally ill within six months and that no one in your family who stands to gain from your demise can assist in drawing up the papers that are necessary. That is a class A felon. And so it's not, so if people want to get rid of grandma, they can find a way to do it. You don't need this bill. People, every day we read about people getting rid of somebody. So they don't need this bill. And if grandma has an estate, let me tell you, folks, if grandma has an estate and you put her in Queens Hospital, those last days of her life all hooked up, that is a minimum of $10,000 a day. So when grandma does pass after all of that, and then she leaves you with the bill, do you really want that? Is that the way you want to remember grandma? $10,000 a day. And I think that's the other reality with our growing cost of living. You don't want people to make these decisions for financial reasons. But if I'm in that situation, let's sit down the road and I'm six months or less and I see the burden this is placing on my family, I want the ability to make that choice for my family. Whenever you're ready. Right. Exactly. The bill is constructed in a way where people can't apply undue pressure because we're always concerned about abuse of our senior citizens. But if they are in that situation, I know that if I'm in that exact situation and I have that choice made available to me, you at least have to consider it. You don't want to bankrupt your children or your spouse at the end of life. So I think this isn't something that's going to be forced on anyone, but they should have the ability to choose for themselves. Now, one doctor, Dr. Sites, he said that so many doctors aren't ready for this. Well, no doctor is compelled to take the part in this if for some reason they're not comfortable with it. They don't have to be trained. They are trained. That's where the MD comes from. But if for some reason they feel that they can't do this, there's nothing that compels them to do it. Right. And obviously, I'm not a doctor. Yeah. I'm definitely not an expert on that field. So you have to take into consideration that sort of testimony. But for me, I guess this isn't something that needs to be implemented immediately. This is something that you can give that window of time to provide adequate training that can be written into the bill. This is a decision we're making that we want to sign the test of time, that we want to benefit people not only next year, but 10 years from now and 20 years from now. So we shouldn't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Those are concerns that need to be addressed, but they shouldn't be the reason we are not able to pass this bill. Yes. So another person that brought up about the certain things aren't open to the public about this patient, well, with the HIPAA, nothing is open to the public. And it shouldn't be. And it shouldn't be. That's their individual right. Yeah. That's, why do we need to know? You know, the person is already ill with whatever the disease is. That's enough. We don't need to know anything else. I don't think. Yeah. So on my end, when I was looking at some of the reporting requirements, and that's something I'd like to see strengthened in a sense, but not for public consumption, you know, this is something where it may be five years into this program. And you know, what we've seen on the mainland is that very few people actually go through with this process. So you might be talking about in five years in Hawaii, maybe a dozen or two, I mean, maybe a little bit more. And that's that aggregate information could be made available to policymakers, provided that, you know, privacy and all of those requirements that this is kept confidential. But this isn't public knowledge, and no one's health situation should be made public unless they ask it to be, you know. And with hospice, for instance, the hospice nurse signs off on the death certificate. They don't say anything else, except the fact that this is comes from hospice. It is taken that everything is fine. The person passed away, time, place, and whatnot, and they sign, there's no question about what was the cause of death, what was any of this, no. And this should be treated the same way. Because if you're come to that part, it is probably you are in hospice. It's very likely, very likely. So there's so many of this nonsense. It seems nonsense. And I think I'm looking forward to, you know, the relevant committees having the discussion again. I feel like going through that process and in the two to three hour hearing last time, and hearing a variety of viewpoints, it was very informative. But you know, beyond that, I think there is a lot of public value just in having the discussion. And I do feel like this is something that we are going to pass. I'm hopeful for this upcoming session. But even if it does, you know, take a longer process, I do feel like we're headed in that direction that this is a conversation that people are having with their loved ones all across the country. And the less we, you know, keep death shrouded in this mystery and not talk about it, the better off we all are. And then at that last hearing that was packed and everybody got one minute to speak, that's not very informative. We've said more in the last 25 minutes, you know, and then there's so much more to go that really unless we can have an informational briefing where there's more discussion, more give and take, but one minute, that's not very much. And, you know, I was witness to it, and it can be very difficult, you know, to balance, you know, when you only have 120 or so people are trying to provide input. It can be very difficult. And I think you're right. I think we are better served by having something very public. And I think, you know, in terms of good governance, people always feel better about an outcome if they feel like they've been hurt on an issue. So that's something we can hopefully do a little bit better going forward. Well, it's been a real pleasure spending this time with you. And we look forward as the session goes on for you to come back and keep us updated on what you're doing, especially what's going on in the Big Island. Oh, that's always a good time. Yes. Well, thank you so much. Aloha, and we'll see you next time.