 Live from the JSA Podcast Studio, presenting Data Movers, showcasing the leaders behind the headlines in the telecom and data center infrastructure industry. Welcome to a very special greener data edition of Data Movers. I'm your host, Jamie Scott-O-Katya, CEO and founder of JSA, along with my fabulous co-host, top B2B social media influencer, Mr. Evan Christel. Hey Evan. Hey Jamie, welcome to Data Movers, where we sit down with the most influential men and women in today's modern data center and telecom world, meeting the requirements of this new normal. So Jamie, can you tell this is not a fake background. This is actually a real background back in the real world at HIMS, the big health IT show of the year. So what about you? Are you getting out in the real world these days? No, but I will be. Actually, HIMS I hear is amazing. It's great to see things are starting to reconnect live in person. I will actually be at ITW in a couple of weeks and that will be my first time seeing our international community in years. So yeah, crazy. So no masks I see, huh? Well, I am wearing one. I'm like the one guy in Florida still wearing a mask. So I'm easily to identify. And if you've seen the hashtag COVID is not over, you'll realize that parts of the world are being swamped by COVID again. So yeah, we're in this strange new place. But speaking of places and interesting topics beyond COVID, I think we have a great guest today. We certainly do, we certainly do. As you know, our guests are always top the industry, thought leaders, incredible background stories, careers that we love to hear their highs, their lows, their unique perspectives of the future of our industry. So I am so excited to bring on one of our authors of greener data, the multi-author book that will be dropping on Earth Day, April 22. But also of course, the CEO of BDX, Mr. Brom Singh. Welcome, Brom. Thanks, Jamie. It's nice to be back with you. Oh, it is. Good to see you, good to see you. Yes, indeed. And it's only been a year. Nothing really has happened in the past year. So I'm not sure what we can talk about. But I'll seriousness, refresh our recollection. Who is BDX and your mission and what you're up to in the past year? It's been a while. Thanks, it was yeah. So BDX is, you know, they say we are the fastest growing data center in Asia. I would tend to agree, given the pace at which we are moving. So we essentially have a data center footprint in Asia. We have two, so in NJ, one is already up and running. The other one's being built. We have one in Guangzhou. And then we have two in Hong Kong and one more being built. We have one in Singapore. We want to have more. But, you know, Singapore authorities are coming down on data centers. They want us to be sustainable. And then we have, we're just acquiring four more in Indonesia and building one. So this is what we have. And we are now next looking at Taiwan where we would be acquiring and building also. So as you can see, it's been a busy year. And, you know, we're barely two years old. And the last year has been, since I spoke to you, it's been frantic, but it's been fun. Oh my God, Taiwan. Oh my goodness. It's been such incredible accomplishments. You know, we should also know BDX celebrating its second anniversary just a couple of months ago. So it is not, you know, not just a year from last time we chatted, two years for you guys together rocking. Congratulations on all of that significant growth. Yeah. Thank you. And we should know that you have been doing this with a focus on sustainability. Not that I'm preaching to my Singapore friends here, but can you tell us a little bit about BDX's initiatives on this particularly your 360 view? Sure, Jamie. So, you know, you said two years. It's almost like it just been yesterday since I flew down from Virginia. Yes. We set up the BDX business. You know, it just time flies. So to your question, the data center industry is a big guzzler of power. We all know that. Open secret. None of us can, you know, sidestep sustainability and governments like Singapore won't allow us to in any case. So within the context of the data center construct, sustainability means efficient use of power. Now, and of course, green power. You move away from dirty power, green power. But, you know, so all of us are caught up in this, how to get green power. But in the larger context of sustainability, what's happening in the big bad world out there? It took 360 view, this product that we use as our power management tool. It took the carbon footprint management capabilities of 360 view to open our eyes or my eyes at least to the broader sustainability world out there and the issues therein. You know, you have Kyoto with all its feelings. Who knew, right? I mean, what was happening there? The way the system was being gamed all these years. And I'm not using that lightly. And how it could so easily be resolved by something like 360 view connected to a carbon blockchain and you have a good, adequate, elegant solution for the problems that plague sustainability and the carbon footprint. So what does 360 view do for those of our viewers who might not already know? So 360 view is basically for the data center world, there's a DCIM, that's a data center information management system with a big focus on power. It manages our power for us. It makes sure we are efficient, power-wise. But it's also got a carbon accounting tool in it. So it manages your carbon footprint. Now, managing carbon footprints is a multi-billion dollar business. And 360 view manages your carbon footprint for you and then connects back to a carbon blockchain, sorry, connects back to a blockchain which could then connect to any carbon blockchain or any carbon registry to submit your greenhouse gas submissions. So, you know, it's a very elegant automated way of connecting a carbon footprint to the carbon registry and making sure that the whole, the provenance of a carbon credit is established, right? Which is so important given the way the system is being gained. But, you know, it's difficult for the various authorities, it's sort of a splintered world out there in sustainability for them all to come together and come up with a solution. But we have it, we have the solution and we are actually giving it away free. So because, you know, Jamie, it's not my, you know, sustainability is not my bread and butter, right? I mean, I'm a data center guy. So, but I have this great tool, my team, with, you know, being very conscious people, the way they have worked hard and created this tool for the sustainability world, we're giving it away. So we use it for DCIM purposes. Anyone wants to use the DCIM, of course, you got to pay. But if you're using it for carbon accounting and for your greenhouse gas submissions, just take it and do it, it's the least we can do. Amazing, first of its kind, as far as I can tell. And you've been very busy in your core business. You're growing and expanding in some of the biggest markets in the world in Nanjing and in Hong Kong. And there you are in Singapore as well. By the way, on a side note, I really need a road trip to view your facilities in Singapore. There are about three noodle places that I am desperate to visit. You have no idea, the food here. I know, I haven't been there since pre-pandemic. But getting back on track, how have you managed through this growth phase you're in and what was important about Singapore, beyond the good noodles, what's the market there like? Singapore is the perfect hub for the data set business by hub. And it's not just because of the ease of travel and the fact that they have maintained this ease of travel through these times of COVID, unlike many other locations. So it's not just that, but it's also the perfect ecosystem for the data center business. If I have to run and grow my business, I need a talent pool, I need a vendor ecosystem, I need infrastructure, I need the rule of law. And all of this comes together very nicely in Singapore. I was mentioning to someone the other day, as a kid growing up in Bombay in India, I would always wonder why are all the traders of a particular commodity all lined up on one street? So the silver traders are on one street and the copper traders. So why are they all together? And of course, the reason is the whole buzz that thing creates and the ecosystem it builds up. And that's why you have these places like, you have Silicon Valley, you have the Ashburn that's close to where I live, you have Frankfurt, Amsterdam and you have Singapore. Now, they tell me Singapore is the second largest data center hub in the world. So after Ashburn, it's Singapore's next. And if you were to fly from Ashburn across the Atlantic to London, then you have London, which is a hub, you have Paris, which is a hub, you have Amsterdam, you have Frankfurt, another great data center hub. And then you have nothing, fly all the way, nothing till you hit Singapore. So that's how important Singapore is. Yeah, and this also makes me think of your recent announcement in MOU with the National University of Singapore and SEMCORP. Can you tell us a little bit about how that partnership helps you and your partners support these joint priorities around sustainability? Well, so with them, I think the first thing we have done is very experimental, floating data centers and floating solar farms, which is, so the floating data center is a little more exotic than floating solar farms, which by the way are pretty much there, the lot of floating solar farms. So these are the two things we're doing with them. The other thing we're doing with them is using pitching to the Singapore government, working with the Singapore government to use something like 360 view and carbon blockchains to make Singapore a premium hub for carbon trading. Let me quickly go into that. So carbon trading, unless you can verify the origins, the provenance of a carbon credit, the value is questionable. So, but as I just explained, with 360 view and a carbon block chain, you can establish the provenance of a carbon credit and Singapore just focuses on automating the carbon trade. You can charge a premium for the carbon credits you sell through your exchange and that's what we're pitching to them. The last thing we're doing with the university is how to release what we call stranded power. There's power in our data center that we call stranded. So you have power not being used because it's buffered. You have power not being used because redundant and also power because of inefficient servers. Servers are not using powers efficiently. So we're working with them, how to have liquid immersed servers and other very exotic stuff that I just don't have that. I'm not a rocket scientist, but my guys are working with them on all these cutting edge features towards sustainability. And some of our chapters too, we talk further about stranded power and what we can do doing or not doing with it to help get greener. So I love that you touched upon that. And Brahm, if you could, if you have pointed out that analysts predict offset purchases, I'm sorry again, you have pointed out that analysts predict offset purchases that they could be more than 50 billion by 2030. That's a big number, 50 billion dollars. If not sooner, but that there may be some inconsistencies with these measures. Can you elaborate on this? The inconsistency Jamie is staring us all in the face of this big elephant in the room that no one wants to talk about. And let me just, so you have on one side, like you said, carbon trade going by leaps and bounds, right? And they say 50 billion is what the number they threw at us, the analysts as where it was going to be, right? However, so the carbon trade is going up a leaps and bounds, but the greenhouse gases are not coming down commensurately. The greenhouse gases are right where they are, but the trade is going wrong there. Something is wrong, isn't it? Because every carbon credit means one ton of greenhouse gas should be reduced, right? It isn't being reduced. And that is the inconsistency that you're talking about, right? And it's a huge problem. And so where's the proof is Brahm saying talking out of his head is their proof? Well, guess what? In COP26, they completely disbanded the CER. That's the Certified Emission Reduction Certificate Program of the UN that was initiated at Kyoto. They disbanded it because it was just littered with fraud. They never used the word fraud. They never said we have a fraud problem, but they disbanded it. And now there's a new system being put into place through the Paris Accord. Now, why was it disbanded? Because of the inconsistency. And why did the inconsistency happen? Well, it's very simple. You have something called additionality, right? Additionality is an interesting concept. It means you can only earn a carbon credit if you put in that additional work, money effort towards reducing greenhouse gas. But you can't just have something that would have happened anyway and still reduce the greenhouse gas and claim a carbon credit, but they're being claimed. And then you have multiple trades from the same carbon credit. So I generate a carbon credit and then I sell it to you so you can offset your footprint. And then I also sell the same carbon credit to Evans because then he can offset his footprint because there's no record, right? When I sell it to him, he doesn't know I've already sold it to you. Yeah. Power to blockchain. Power to blockchain could really help this, yeah. That's how they bingo, bingo, guys. That's where it could happen. There you are. Wow, there's so much to unpack here. Yeah, I'm learning so much from your experience really at the bleeding edge of sustainability. But if there's one takeaway, one thing you would implement to drive sustainability in our industry, what would that one thing be if you could have your choice? I mean, so in the data center industry, you know, we live and die by PUE as a power utilization efficiency, right? And PUE is our God. Well, what 360 View has done is enforced the CUE concept. How much carbon are we giving up, giving out into the air to generate the energy being used for our IT system? So, you know, you also have WUE. That's how much water are you using for powering IT systems. But in the ambit of what I can offer a solution, it's the CUE. So what we want to tell the industry is what we're doing is we no longer just saying PUE. We're also saying we measure a CUE and our investors demanded from us. So actually the 360 View has made our investors more, you know, demanding like, okay, you've got that too. Great. Now you better show me your CUE. Do your carbon audit and let us have it every year. So that's what we're doing. And we hope the industry does that too. Yeah. And I love so many of our chapters have been dedicated to investors only investing in greener projects and facilities that are on the agenda. So I think that's why I'm so excited to have a CUE. Who are measuring their CUE. So there is a shift happening. We're, we're on it. You're leading the way. So I so appreciate all that you do. And here you are. Two AM your time. So let's get this a little bit more lively before we let you go, my friends. Yeah. We'll wake you up a little bit with some embarrassing questions. Go ahead. Go ahead. I'll start with our rapid fire questions. So you're a really interesting guy for those who aren't aware. You've lived in many cities around the world. So which is, which is your favorite? If you can pick one and why? Well, you know, favorite would be, well, it should be my home in Virginia. I love Virginia with a passion. But if I was a user, I do, I do. It's just a beautiful, beautiful place and I miss it. So, but if my favorite, favorite place would have to be Bali, you know, I have the beach there. You have a mountain and it is Bali hands down. It is my favorite place. Yes. That is definitely on my bucket list. And okay. So we talked about noodles, particularly in Singapore. But what is your favorite meal? I think it has to be a nice bowl of Vietnamese for that's my favorite, favorite, favorite. Yeah. Vietnamese. We have some, some good, some good restaurants here in Southern California, but I think. Yeah. Well, yeah, we have lots of Vietnamese Americans who are doing good, making good food. What about holidays? Is that, is that vacations? Is that, you know, locally or where do you like to go? Like cities, mountains, beaches, et cetera. Again, you know, being in Asia is, is, is spoils you. You can just hop on or at least pre COVID you would hop on a plane and just be in Bali or be in Thailand or, or, or, or, you know, Indonesia, Indonesia is fascinating. I would actually recommend Indonesia as, as a must, you know, place to must visit. It is just brilliant. It's got such culture, such a deep set culture and history in various cities, including Bali, of course, that Indonesia is I think my, my all time favorite. Awesome. Awesome. Jamie, we may, we may need a data movers Indonesia edition. I'm not sure our spouses and families would appreciate it, but. Yeah, I'm sure my CFO will say to me, what? Tell me, tell me again the ROI. I can spin that. I can spin it. Hey, Brown, you are often of course a man on the move. But when you finally get time to go ahead and relax, what are you most likely doing? You know, I'm behind on my book. My second knowledge, my publisher is threatening me. He wants his advance back. And you know, you know, you give a writer money in advance of the dumbest thing you can do. You're never getting it back. So I'm scrambling to finish the book. That's what I'm doing. Okay. Well, there'll be many, many more two AM nights ahead for you. But, but thank you so much for joining us. And I know you're a busy, busy guy and we appreciate all the work you're doing at the leading edge of sustainability in the data center. I had no idea that, you know, we were so far advanced at least in the work you're doing. Not at all such a pleasure. Two of you is always fun talking to you both. Thank you. And also for contributing your chapter in greener data. I'm so thrilled and honored. Your words, your insight, your, your inspiration. And we look forward to further promoting that with you this year forward. So thank you again, everybody and viewers. If you enjoyed today's data mover podcast, just as much as we did, go ahead and check it out at jsa.net slash podcast for upcoming episodes releasing every other week on Wednesday mornings. And follow us on Twitter at J's Gatto and Neven Curstell and we will follow you back. Take care everyone. And always stay safe guys. Get green. Happy networking.