 Good evening and thanks for joining us everyone this evening for tonight's Gore-Tex Pro Talk in association with Manson Equipment. We'll be starting shortly. Tonight's event is presented by Jenny Tuff. All right, let's get started. Evening everyone. Well, it's good evening for you guys in the UK, but first good night, good afternoon because we're in Canada. Thanks for joining us. This is the last but obviously not least, Alice Brigham Gore-Tex Pro Talk. I'm Jenny Tuff and I'm really excited that I'm guest hosting tonight with, sorry, I've never actually had to say your name out loud in all the years that we've known each other. I was so nervous about it. So I am just really sorry if I'm butchering it. Actually, we met sharing a stage in Dundee, I think, years ago when we had public speaking careers and we're both in Scotland. And then we got to share lots of stages kind of all around Scotland, which was really cool. And I do remember one event where the English presenter wanted to say both of our names in the proper Scottish way. And I think he didn't manage to get either of them, which was awesome. But I still can't get yours. It's okay. I'm really used to it's fine. Yeah, I bet you are. So, a little introduction for anyone that doesn't know has a lot of fkt's under his belt such as the cool and rich and winter which was under five hours, I believe, and some first ascents in Alaska and the Himalaya and the one I'm most excited to hear about because it's one of my favorite mountains in the world, Mount Robson here in Canada. So your background here from Northwest Highlands, and grew up with adventure and crafting and hunting and walking in the mountains. I believe you even did the cool and rich when you were a child with your dad. I'm making that up. That's correct. Yeah, you're making that up. Yeah, I'm making that up. Oh, I think you said that on your top. I've done it a couple times before, but not actually I'd never, I'd never been like on top of the coolings until I moved, like, until I'd moved away from seeing them every day. I'm just making up stories now. That's awesome. I've been a really high level climber around the world. You should also a really good photographer and your words and your shots have been published in magazines all around the world which has been really cool to see. So I guess to kick things off. Well I should also say I'm going to pepper with questions but for you in the in the audience, we'd love to hear your questions as well so if you can just type them in and I'll try to grab them as much as I can. Feel free to fire away at us. But to start with you and I most recently saw each other here in BC, which was really awesome surprise. What brought you over to Canada. I suppose just the big mountains and the really good ice climbing is a main factor and just the sort of appeal of going to new places all the time so like all the different crags or different climbing areas are all pretty much brand new to me so like that that's just really appealing to me to like always be seeing a new place or a new climbing zone and yeah so I think so that was like the main attractions. That's cool so I mean you're really well experienced and pretty much mountains all over the world you know a lot of different trains lots of different types of climbing but Scotland and Canada would probably be your most well known. How would you compare the two in terms of climbing. Well, I suppose in the sort of in in winter climbing there's sort of three different sort of things that make it like really different and and one of them scale. So you have Canada which is obviously really big. And then this photo, if you look at this little red square down here that's where most of the ice climbing is in the Rockies. And this is a sort of zoomed in version of it. And so it's starting in Canmore and sort of all the way up the highway 93 to Jasper and Mount Robson. And this is the north of Scotland in that tiny little box in Canada. So the scale is just so vastly different. And so that's just a huge thing like just the amount of space there is here in Canada so that's that's one big thing. The other thing is obviously the weather. And so in Canada sometimes you get the ice climb in the sun like this, mainly because it gets really really cold and it's also a really really dry climate in the Rockies like even the snow is really really dry so it. It doesn't compare to the Scott the Scottish snow which is very wet. It makes a formation of ice climbing very different and obviously it makes the challenges slightly different too so in Scotland obviously it's very wet and at best it's maybe minus three or minus five but it feels feels really cold because it is really wet. In Canada, it's just really really cold. And so it's just you're just like battling with, like, like an actual cold a lot of the time sometimes it's, it's fine because it's just minus five and dry, and actually feels quite warm. And then the other thing is like, I suppose, like formation and features. So in Canada, it's more like you're climbing like bigger features almost. So the in Scotland it's more like there's a smaller crag and you always are climbing in a feature and like a crack or a corner, but in Canada it's more like you're climbing something like this huge big frozen waterfall, which is a root called cryophobia in the ghost. And, or if you're mixed climbing in Canada, you might be climbing on a root like this one to the right which is cryophobia, and, and it's, you're more connecting the dots of ice. So, and the way they form is different, and just like the whole like it in the terrain is very different. So like, you're in this huge big bowl in here, and there's only one or two routes. So in Scotland, you're sort of on this smaller scale down version in the mountains, but there might be lots and lots of roots. And so, so that's like the three big things that sort of make the winter climbing differentiates like scale weather and sort of features or formations. So that's how you talk about the cold because when I first moved to Scotland and always get stopped everywhere going Scotland because I'm always wearing shorts and people go oh my God I'd be cold. And then if I said I'm Canadian Scottish people would always reply was like oh well then you must not get cold because you're so used to it or whatever. And I always kind of, I always laugh at that because I remember the cold of the Rockies that cold where like any skin that gets exposed can pretty much start to crack and bleed because it's so dry. And I would always say like our cold is just so different because you can dress for it because it's like really dry so if you put on a jacket you can actually like be quite comfortable I think in the Rockies winter. So I was kind of curious to ask you about like what are you having the same experience and how do you manage your kit versus like the Scottish cold versus the Canadian cold. And yeah so I suppose in Scotland it's like we said it can be really wet and the way to keep yourself warm is keep yourself dry so and have clothing that works, even if it maybe gets wet so I would always have like a Gore-Tex jacket and it would always use like a very thick version of that, like a Gore-Tex pro. And then I would have a synthetic belay jacket, so that means it's still very effective when it's wet. And I also have lots and lots of different pairs of gloves if you're winter climbing in Scotland, like swap them out because they always just get really wet, even if they're, even no matter what they're made of they always just like fill up with snow or rain somehow. So yeah you're sort of, you have to battle it that way in Scotland and in Canada it's easier when you're walking around or like going to climbing because like you said it's just dry cold. So you tend to get away with just having a really warm down jacket. But one of the things I learned from being here is that sometimes it's slightly trickier when you're winter climbing or ice climbing here because the ice can be wet, even though it could be minus 10. So the feature of the, that's forming, or the water source that's forming the ice could still be like producing some water. So when you ice climb it gets kind of wet. And so that you're trying to balance that sort of like, so like in Canada I would have like a lighter, I would normally still climb in a Gore-Tex jacket because you do sort of get wet a bit. But then for the insulation, and now I have a down jacket that has like a Gore-Infinium shell on the outside, and that kind of keeps the down dry, but it's warm enough. So like you can see on this jacket here, like it's got it's down underneath but it's got like a Gore-Infinium shell. And so where a normal jacket would be wet, this kind of just protects you from that sort of moderate amount of water or like wetness compared to like, you know, a synthetic jacket that's warm enough, and a normal down jacket gets a bit wet. So like this new technology here has been really good for me. I've used like this ever since coming here and it's made a big difference actually. That kind of leads into the first audience question which just came in, which is what's your most important piece of kit that you own, which is always the million dollar question for a person like yourself. The most important bit of kit. And then we can do the favorite if they're different. If they're different. Yeah, okay, yeah, but we'll do a different. Most important bit of kit. Well, I suppose for both is just having a jacket that keeps you dry and it's got a big hood. Like that makes such a big difference, like you maybe wouldn't think of it, but it just makes a huge difference. So like having a big hood that protects you in the weather, no matter what happens, if you're getting like doused in spinriff like in this photo here. So I think that's a huge thing, yeah. I think people are really excited to hear about your kit actually and wanting to know if you're involved in product development with any mountain equipment. Yeah, yeah, tend to do lots of things like so that and that photo that we that last video of the of the Gordon Finneum shell. That's like a prototype jacket that's been sent to me. Before the, so like now they have that this winter it's coming out that jacket it's like their firestorm series. So like we've been testing it for a year and a half now or something. And it's been been really, really good. It's like a, it's quite a big step forward I think in technology like lots of the time there's like little mini percentages you get. Like, like, you know, maybe a new mid layer is like one or 2% better or 5% better but like having that like different, that new sort of style of down jacket is like a significant step. Yeah, I think it's quite fascinating like if we think the stuff we were wearing even 10 years ago like I remember my first back country trips and like my backpack piled up to like way over my head just because like if you had good kid at that time that was how big of a backpack it was required to carry it. So it is really exciting I think if you're into ultra light movement in the mountains like the last 10 years and hopefully like another going forward like technology just seems to keep on coming along doesn't it. Yeah, yeah it does and it's sort of, it's sort of ebbs and flows like what, what, what sticks and what sort of, sort of sometimes comes around and gets tried and then everyone realizes actually that's still the idea so it's, it's interesting to see that sort of development of it's things like slowly getting better and then every now and again you get a bit of a jump. I think of something and it's like, like, you know, maybe, maybe about 10 years ago people sort of came up with the idea of, of having boots that had the gate or built in for, for ice coming and like, and that was like a really big jump. And now everybody has that when you go ice coming. Yeah, definitely. I was really interested because you kind of touched on the difference between when you would use a synthetic jacket and a down jacket and this is one that I've never really figured out like with sleeping bags on jackets. Okay, how do you decide which one you prefer, like, what are the main differences from synthetic and down. So, and this is, there's obviously a lot of science behind these things. But for me it's just depends how wet it's going to be so. In Scotland, I have tried taking a down jacket, sometimes, very occasionally, and if it's going to be really, really nice day like the nicest day all winter, then I might consider taking a down jacket. And, but other than that I just always take a synthetic. And it's, it's basically efficient that gets really wet, it still has the ability to sort of keep you warm. And it doesn't sort of feel like it's not a down feels water but it doesn't get quite so heavy and sort of horribly sort of sad almost, you know, if you get a down jacket really wet it looks really sad. So if you have a sad jacket, I mean no one wants. Yeah, yeah, yeah exactly that would make you feel so in the day out. So, so I would say yes, it's, it's just a matter of choice and a lot of time as well it's just like what people have so if you climb in Scotland a lot you might just have a synthetic. And I mean if you go ice climbing in Europe that'll that'll suffice, and a lot of the time but and yet certainly in Canada it really helps to have a very warm jacket. And this is something I was wondering about as well when you were talking about the Scotland versus Canada and you talked about terms of scale. So the approach is obviously really different in Canada just that the country is so huge and we have like four roads. So, how would you compare the approach and what are you, we're wondering what you're using for the approach like are you skiing and biking and how are you tackling that. So, in Canada, it's kind of weird so I'll pull up one of the slides. And so some a lot of the time to get to skiing, which is is really nice. And you sort of the driving is very similar to Scotland it could be a couple hours of driving depending where you are. So, and in all sorts of different directions and and the weather's quite localized in like and like at home in the UK so it can be very different different places so sort of takes a lot of time to get used to that sort of weather forecasting. But and then the approaches like once you leave the car, some of them can be shorter which is nice, but a lot of them are similar an hour and a half two hours two and a half hours, and it can sort of often be sort of fairly well defined trail in that you would and you ski up. And sometimes you get to ski out like this and it's really nice. And sometimes you can be like skiing through the trees and the trees here in Canada can be like very densely packed. So it can be like a real issue you end up bushwhacking. And also with the snowpack, you get these really because it's so dry the snow. Even in your skis sometimes you find yourself like falling through the whole winter snowpack. And it's never that deep something that happened here or something but like, you know, because it's the snow is so dry and so unsupportive sometimes underneath. It's, it just collapses, even if you're on your skis and like it's like February, and you could end up on in your skis like on the dirt. Yeah, it's exhausting, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah, sometimes a lot of the time it's fine in your ski to just break and trail in your ski is like you were going ski touring, except you have a heavy bag on. But if you're like in the trees, it can be like in this photo here, and all this sort of burned out trees you can see below. And then at the bottom of this to get through these like lots of them have fallen over. And then lots of deadfall. So you're sort of like end up climbing over trees in your skis and it can end up being pretty hideous. I think I have PTSD from that. I just went, I went across the Rockies this summer on foot and that was like, not with skis obviously it was summer as fast and light. But the amount of deadfall on the trails like trails that have been decommissioned or because of COVID just hadn't been repaired this year. I think I spent my entire summer trying to get through for us like that and honestly just hearing you talk about it, I'm like feeling stressed again like I did hurt don't want to do it again. Yeah, it is hard work and it is endless force I think is a really big difference. I think that leads quite nicely into our next question about the differences and what you have to consider in terms of safety and the roots that you're going to climb. Yeah, so the great thing about Scotland is it's generally very safe. While in Canada, you get lots of avalanches. And that's like a huge factor. So, yeah, like, even like this is a really classic group polar circus. And above it is this this huge basically it's this huge avalanche ball. And this is like a really common sort of way that where the roots form is they form and where the sort of terrain sort of pinches. And then so, and then the ice will form there, like in this in this route. And that often means that the avalanche danger is really high, or there's like a lot of exposure above. So, in the UK, you do get avalanches, and they are like something that you have to consider. But a lot of the time, you, you can test as you go, because all the avalanche danger tends to be below the route. While in Canada, it's often above the route. And you never actually get to like, see the snowpack or see what it's like up there. So it's really hard thing. And there's a lot of like avalanche forecasts that happen here but it again the scale like the avalanche forecast. It'd be like having one avalanche forecast for this whole of Scotland, the current like where they where they forecast in the region. Because it does, it does make it really tricky and there's more becoming more and more like ways of using technology of people putting reports online and using the scheme sort of reports to sort of try and predict it. But generally, you have to have a very, you have to just go with a very conservative attitude here. Whilst in Scotland, it's, yeah, you can go and try it. And I suppose the other a couple of other things you maybe have to consider is one is frostbite. And it's like genuinely if it's really cold if it's a really cold snap in the Rockies, then there's certain areas you just don't go and climb in, because it's so it's so cold. So, and you, and you genuinely can sort of damage your feet very quickly like in a couple of hours if you've got your boots too tight and it's really cold. And I've actually, last year I kind of like frostnip my toes a little bit. So, so now it's horrible. Yeah, there's literally like an hour at BLA is what did it. So, and like now I always have heat socks on. Heat socks. There was actually a question about socks and people are really wanting to know, like, I think just because it started to get cold that now we're all starting to think our toes are cold all the time. How are you standing where you're standing there in that photo and keeping your feet at all comfortable. Yeah, so I generally walk in in in one set of socks so like in a normal set of wool socks and tend to try and keep them quite thin so my feet don't sweat too much. And then when I get to the climbing and I do this in Scott I try and do this in Scotland sometimes too. And although in Scotland sometimes it can be too, like too wild to stop and take your feet out. So, yeah, and then I switch into my heat socks. Maybe not every time and I think my heat socks on but certainly if it's cold. That sounds amazing. Yeah. And so I want to move us along because I really am excited to hear about your climb you did on Mount Robson this summer which was a first ascent on the emperor face. Can you first of all just tell us all a little bit about the climb and then I think we'll have a million questions about it. Okay, so the Mount Robson is the highest peak in the Canadian Rockies. It's also referred to as the king, and this is the emperor face. So from about here to the summit, which is way up here is, it's about 2000 meters of vert. So it's very big. And in the end of September me and my friend Ethan Berman went and climbed on the green line. Up this new route to here and so they took us two days to get to the summit so it took us one day from camping down at the lake here to get to the rage up here. It was a really long like 20 hour day with lots of ice climbing in between and it was cool because a lot of the ice climbing actually felt really Scottish because it had been such a big snow year here that on this face because it faces almost due north or northeast. And they've been so much snow and it just melted and then frozen in the summer it hadn't actually melted all the snow away. So it was really like the protection wasn't as very good, just like ice climbing in Scotland, but and the ice was like really good like ice, you swing your ice accident would go in first time. And so yeah so that was like a really cool sort of experience to there and then the next day we spent like 12 hours, get into the summit because it's quite a complicated rage, and it had been really cloudy so yeah. One of the quote one of the first quotes that you gave after finishing this climb was that it was one of the wildest routes you've ever climbed. Is that so true do you still look back at it and think that was, that was the wild and and what wasn't about it because you've climbed, you know, like in the Himalayas which I would imagine are wild in lots of ways. Yeah, it's a funny one because you're in relatively close to to civilization like from from the summit of Mount Robson you can see a highway. Yeah. So it's kind of weird and like Ethan just text me like a few days before we went out there and he's like oh hey do you want to go climbing next week and I'm like yeah yeah okay. And then like three or four days later you're like halfway up this huge face and it's got it's like, like, you feel like really committed because it'd be hard to back off at that point and you're, and you're like, it's just like all of a sudden you're like whoa. Well if you with the Himalayas it's sort of gradual right you like fly there and then like you slowly drive into the foothills and then you're climatized and then you, and then you sort of look at the mountain for a while and then you get on it but but in the Rockies it's like, you're just like, you know drinking coffee in town and then a few days later you're kind of strapped to this big mountain and often just with the style of climbing here it means it feels kind of quite wild. Is it just kind of like a slap in the face you're in the deep end, just like that, right after breakfast. Yeah, right after breakfast at 1am. Sounds like you. Yeah, you're kind of thrown onto the face there. I had a really cool experience just sort of questing up this big face that is relatively well known and if it was in the Alps it'd be lots and lots of roots on it already but it's cool to sort of get the opportunity to do that so close to hope like where I stay like just quest into sort of some unknown bit of a mountain. So if you're the first ascent you get to name it don't you. And how'd you, how'd that go, you and Ethan decide together, did you already know before you started? No, we didn't know before we started. I don't feel like, I feel like it's bad luck if you do that. I don't know if that's true, but that's what I think anyway. So, it was really, the name came from, well, I had never seen Mount Robson before, like I'd seen photos of it but I'd never, and when we walked in it was raining pretty hard and it was really misty. So I couldn't see, actually see the mountain. So it was like, we're walking in and there's just this big mountain that's there but I can't see it and I'm like, oh, Ethan's like, yeah, there's a big mountain there. Anyway, so as we, we like climbed it, got to the summit and come down and we're driving away to the Vailmont to try and find some food before it all closes. And the chain by Fleetwood Matt came on and one of the lyrics is running in the shadows. So, and there's really good memory of sort of looking, sticking my head out the window and looking back and seeing Mount Robson for the first time and it's like, really big, it sits like 3000 meters, this up like straight above the road. It's like right in your face. And so yeah, that's kind of how we came up with that name. Yeah, so for those of you who haven't been around Jasper Mount Robson. It is the biggest mountain in the Rockies but it does sit kind of alone at the very north end so it really does stick out really high above all the mountains around it and there's this beautiful. When you drive it on the highway from Vailmont where, which is where I finished my run where you would have gone to get your food. So you're in the corner and it's a clear day you just suddenly get like the most photogenic mountain you're ever going to see in your life right ahead on the highway, and there's a million Instagrammers pulling off the road to try and get that perfect picture of it because it is just the perfect mountain and that's why it's one of my favorites. Yeah, I read from Ethan that he had wanted to do this for a really long time but but you really had to wait for the conditions like the window in the Rockies with snow is is so it's so small anyways and then it's different year on year. So just the chat that you had to wait until you literally got four days notice from Ethan saying it's good. So, Oh that doesn't look good at all. That's in Scotland. Yeah, just just in case I didn't know. So yeah, and I've forgotten your question. Oh, just about waiting for the conditions. I mean, Ethan had been in June, I think, to try it, but it'd been too warm. But that's when he'd seen how much snow is still there. And that's why I kind of thought that it would be good in the fall. And once the, because in the fall you tend to get some good periods of good weather in the mountains, and it's also means there's an overnight freezes to relatively low altitude so so so it just means everything's a bit frozen together. And in the Rockies the rock quality isn't very good like it's something that, and I really like about winter climbing Scotland is the rock quality is very good and it's something you don't really have to think about so much. But in the Rockies it's limestone, and you really really want it to be very well frozen before, before you start climbing, because that makes a big difference. So moving on again, because you're putting all these amazing photos up people are starting to ask quite a lot of questions about photography. And that's also something that you do and that's something that you're able to do professionally and just kind of made that mingle into your climbing career. So the first obvious question is what kit do you use because I mean here you are climbing a really high level going ultra light. What are you taking to take these amazing photographs. And so I carry like a mirrorless system like a solely mirrorless system and yeah and they're they're really good. I really rate them and for a lot of maybe like other people like the I started when I started taking more photos I had like a slightly smaller system it wasn't quite like what they call full frame so so that's like a good option for other people to use and some of these photos are from like one of the first photos I had up was was from that smaller system. And but it's definitely feels like a bit of a commitment sometimes carrying like because you know like to go out and climbing, or even when it comes you sort of consider all the weight of everything. And you know you're like sometimes I've gone climbing with people and I've been, you know, photo shooting some people and they're like weighing their spoons, or whatever it is you know like well we take two spoons or one spin. And actually on Mount Robson we only took one spin because I forgot my spin. But and then we do all this like silly considering what to take like how warm is looking back and then I like just pick up my camera which weighs like a kilo and then put it in my back so kind of like cancels out all the weight saving was done. Yeah, but surely worth it. I mean, is that something that you just started because you're inspired by the mountains while you're up there like what kind of got you into justifying that extra kilogram of weight and wanting to spend time doing that. So I think, I think I like I like producing things like I grew up on a farm, and I trained as a carpenter. And both these things like everything you do you turn around the end of the day and there's something that you look at that you've got as a product. And I just find that quite satisfying and I think that's just like sort of part of the way that I work but every like that and climbing having like having like a really high quality image so so for me it's totally worth carrying the weight and like I've gotten used to it to sort of So it's like you can physically bring something back from your. Yeah, almost yeah. Yeah, and then. So definitely that's like a big part of it and it's just something that I really enjoy. And it's just, I just started doing it by sort of just going climbing more and more. And as I got into going climbing more I took more photos and generally you can take quite nice photos if you're going nice places. So, yeah, yeah exactly it helped a lot. And so yeah for me I find it I find it really cool and sometimes like if I've been on bigger trips to the Himalayas or something then I find it more. I find it more satisfying to take back good images of other stuff like the culture or some stories of what you are even, even if you haven't like gotten up a big route, or achieve what you wanted to. You still sort of have something that's that like I think that I would always sort of hang on my wall for forever or whatever so. So yeah for me it's a big, big thing. That's awesome. We're going to move on to some audience questions that are coming in so it's going to be a bit of a mixed bag here for you to get ready. William, let's come back again with, I'm just going to read this one straight out. Do you make the conscious decision before climbing on the style of climb like free verse technical or do you take gear for tech climbing such as ladders for a fastest scent or how to do it on Mount Robson. So I guess the question is, do you have the whole thing planned before you go and you know exactly how you're going to climb, or do you just come prepared for. Oh, so I suppose it really depends. So let's say I'm on a route like in in Canada in the, when you're with winter climbing sort of on day routes. There's often bolts in the rock and so and you take some ice cream so you can see the bolts here. And then in Scotland, it can be different. So you've got lots of trad gear here. And so for the day routes in Scotland, you often don't know what's going to, you're going to encounter and it's all traditionally predicted there's no both so you end up having quite a large rack like you can see that murder's got a large rack hanging and this, sort of, you don't really know what's above you so you end up taking, you end up having a lot of options, but it's a bit of a balancing act, especially when you go alpine climbing, because the weight matters so much and there might be long stretches of easier terrain where you're not using much gear, but you might really, really need more gear for just short hard sections and that was really the case in Mount Robb since it was some short hard sections where we just started stretching all the gear we had for one pitch. But then there's big sections where we're only using our ice cream in the ice. So you never really know. And, and certainly this, the style like definitely don't take ladders or any sort of stuff like that, but it's more like this, this, the style is that you're going ground up so you don't really know what you're going to hit. But that's kind of part of the, that's like the point. But it's yeah it's definitely a balancing act, particularly when you're alpine climbing. I'm going to fire a few questions about you about your favorites that people want to know about. So the first one, and we'll just have to apologize your whole social circle beforehand, who's your favorite person to climb with. I know it's a brutal question, whoever asked it. Yeah, that's a, yeah. Oh, we put you on the spot. I don't know. Oh, yeah, that's an incredibly hard question because it depends where you are and, and I really like climbing with Ethan because he's very chill but he can still sort of, he doesn't he doesn't talk too much but he just like gets it done. Yeah okay let's let's reform the question what do you look for in a climbing partner. Yeah okay. Yeah, I think I think it's, it's sort of be able to have fun, like, but you know, like, and like I think that's a huge part like, and then there's obviously like sort of trust things we want to really trust their decision making because it does really matter, especially in sort of alpine route. But, and you have it most of the time I think it's just getting along with them because like, if you go on a spend all day with this person, or you can spend maybe even longer like a month or two months. Well you share sleeping bags with your climbing partners don't you. Yeah, yeah so yeah sometimes yeah I've shared a sleeping bag we didn't, we didn't do that. But yeah, like yeah I've been in places with Tom, and we've sort of used this, my equipment has made us this sort of pizza slice sleeping bag that you can share. And it's more efficient because it doesn't have like any zips and it means that your body heats shared. So it's a fun, but yeah I suppose that's a quality that I look for in a climbing partner they're willing to share a sleeping bag. The next one is, I don't think you're going to like this question any more than the last one, do you prefer climbing in Canada or Scotland. Oh, I knew someone was going to ask that. And I think that in terms of winter climbing, I think that if you, if I took like my best Canadian date and my best Scottish date, the Scottish day would be better. Like that. Yeah, I would say it's going to be more memorable. It might not be more fun, but it's going to be more memorable. Yeah. And here's one more that I think you will also be upset about of all your first sense that you've achieved, which one was your favorite. And I think I think my Robson was a really one of my definitely one of my favorites, particularly in terms of alpine climbing. It's just, it was like a really a lot of because it like you we got to have that sort of really big experience of going up and over a big mountain, but it didn't involve flying to the Himalayas. And yeah, I think, I think certainly in terms of like alpine routes, that's definitely one of my favorite versus senses, physically special sort of sort of route. And following on from that, do you prefer a trad or bolted climbing. I prefer track climbing. Yeah, that's definitely why I prefer. And so, I think it's I just find it a lot more sort of adventurous and engaging and I really like sport climbing. I really like climbing on bolts, like this flow is me climbing with some bolts and to some really cool ice blob so that's amazing to be able to do that. And but definitely the pitches that have been like hard trad pitches, both rock climbing and winter climbing, definitely, definitely more memorable. And I think there's that's for me it's like that sort of questing into the unknown is, it's just, it's so much more attractive than clicking the next bolt. Yeah, I understand that for sure. And what about inspiration for yourself I mean you're in a position now that a lot of young climbers are really inspired by the stuff that you're doing but who do you look up to. Oh, and you people. And so I think rattles some names like like here, there's Barry Blanchard who's a really sort of older climber in Canadian Rockies he's climbed so many things like even way back in the 80s. There's no one Steve Swenson who's climbed loads of really really impressive things in the Himalayas. And I've climbed with him like Canadian ice climbing and he's like I don't know how old he is but he's definitely over 60 and he still climbs really really hard. He's really impressive. Yeah, and at home, obviously people like Greg Boswell. He's really impressive stuff he's done. And yeah if you sort of maybe like Ian Small is like a very dark horse in Scotland but it's something really impressive climbing. And first time I saw Greg Boswell give a chat in I think it was an Edinburgh. I think it was the same show that you and I have spoken up. He's, I mean it was no winter and he's wearing shorts so I obviously liked him immediately but it was he's got his huge scar from being attacked by a bear and the things I hate the most about speaking. I mean the only thing about speaking to British audiences that just driving nuts is every time they go what do you do about the bears because like hey this is kind of just overrun by bears and then sure enough this Scottish climber came back with having been attacked by a bear. You haven't been attacked by a bear yet have you? No I've not, I've not been attacked by a bear. I've seen, I think I've been kind of like a year. I spent a lot of time outside and I've seen one bear. Yeah they pretty much don't want to see you anymore than you want to see them. Yeah, yeah it's pretty, yeah it's kind of funny that it's definitely a thing that most people like, like I could go and do something really dangerous climbing and the thing my mum would ask is, you know, are there bears? I don't know what it seems to me like when you look at the statistics to me it just seems ridiculous. Yeah no I think it is the number one thing that comes up with anything that I do in Canada as well as like, and you're like, did you not listen to my achievement? You know all you're talking about. Yeah no and in Canada it's like, it's like avalanches are way more like, I worry way way more about avalanches like every time I go out compared to it. I mean in summer stuff in the Rockies I'm way more upset about the mosquitoes like they're actually going to draw way more blood in my day first. Yeah I'd still say that mosquitoes are not as bad as the midges in the North. I was just going to ask that midges are mosquitoes. Yeah yeah I would take, I would take mosquitoes even with mosquitoes within the malaria I would take them any day. That's a humongous statement dude. Like we've all been in that midgy cloud where you think I like you might set yourself on fire just to get out of it. Okay maybe not on the skills but I would definitely take the mosquitoes like any amount of mosquitoes over midges. Yeah, yeah. Yeah I think I agree with that. We're being asked another favorite question, what's your favorite route in Scotland? Ooh favorite route. I think I'll give two answers so that like my most one of my most sort of are like for me my most favorite route which wouldn't make me necessarily be the favorite route for a lot of people. Actually no one else climbed it so it's a route I did with my dad and we did the first cent of a route called the Giant in Scotland and then it's like a really sort of, in the Cairngorms at Craig and Dulock so it's a really steep bit of granite and it's like got this big ice smear down it which is quite unusual for Scotland. And it was really, it was just a really sort of special day and a really, like a really good route and something all of us remember it. And then maybe like other favorite routes in Scotland I think maybe Ecstasy is a route in Scotland. We did a date on Craig Meaghey and it's sort of really good sort of classic Scottish climbing it's got everything it's got bits of like steep mixed climbing. It's got a pitch where you basically just climb like frozen turf. It's got some like ice little ice pillars and like bits of ice. And so yeah I think that's like, I think that overall that's like one of the best routes I've done in Scotland. So if you ever go back after you've achieved a route and you know check that off your list you ever go back and do routes again. Are you just into the unknown, only excited by. No sometimes yeah it depends like sometimes I've done routes I've done them twice just just because it's it's what's in condition and what's safe for the days you go back to your friends and just have a nice day it's like just having another day climbing outside so you know I don't know if they'll do that but definitely get more out of doing routes I haven't done before. Absolutely. So I think people wanted to still know a little bit more about your kit so we're asked about your kit setup but that's so impossible because you've climbed in almost every different climate and you do every type of climbing. Okay. So, but like if you just did a kind of a basic rundown how would you give a basic introduction to Eastern Hawthorne's kit. So let's assume we're climbing Scotland in winter and I'll give a basic rundown of that and I'll maybe say any changes that would change for somewhere else. So identity where base layer and I were like an eclipse hooded top so it's got like a really nice cut hood and the zip comes to my side synthetic. It's got a waffle grid sort of sort of interior and and then I wear like a mid layer, which tends to be sort of have a thin sort of prime loft layer maybe or and some of these sort of like newer sort of soft shell sort of the version is a kinesis jacket. And so where that a lot of the mid layer and then I wear a Gore Tex most of the time on top, particularly in Scotland I'd wear a really thick heavy Gore Tex like a two black jacket. And with a big hood. And then I tend to have on my legs I'd have like a waffle grid layer. Again, the same as or like a just like some or merino leggings and then a hard shell sort of trousers like two black trousers. And again they're like Gore Tex pro really waterproof and really like durable sort of. Okay, there. And then then have like scarf with phantom text the boots and and gloves I tend to have this slightly weird system where I use this thing called a Citadel glove, but I take the inner out. So it's just like really big primal off glove, and I use that as my Billy gloves so I have thinner gloves underneath like, and I have a synthetic and then a Gore Tex line one so like have a thinner since synthetic glove for lead climbing in. I have a slightly thicker Gore Tex line glove for second again. And then I have this big primal off glove, which I can just stick over the top of any glove and even if both these gloves are wet the primal off to like really thick, and it keeps your hands really warm so it's really good in Scotland. Even though they originally designed the Citadel for like, these are the original pair of these big this big red pair of got hanging off in this photo actually. And, and the originally were designed for like, and high altitude mountaineering. But so yeah we started doing this sort of weird thing and, and then they sort of redesigned them with some stuff feedback from some of the other athletes and me and stuff that they sort of make them a bit better for both pieces. Yeah, as a boxing gloves looks super. Yeah, that's basically what you want. Yeah, if it is really amazing because you can have these really thin lead gloves on, and you get the Billy and it's just you don't have to like expose your hand like wind the cold. You can just stick these big nets over the top. And so I think that's a really really good system. Yeah, that's perfect. And in terms of safety I mean either in Scotland or Canada you can almost anytime if you're on a mountain you've got no phone signal. So what do you, how do you think of contingencies and what do you do is a different in either country for you. Yeah, it's actually, and I don't know if it's, yeah no it is different. In Canada, almost everybody has an in reach system on a subscription. And the basic subscription I think costs about 15 pounds a month and that's like a two way texting system that you can use anywhere in the world, whether it's Alaska or Africa. And in Scotland I've never actually carried one. And I didn't really have a very small one like the newest ones are just tiny they're like this big. So it's just like a, it's like a really yeah the in reach many that's what I use and, and it's, it's so small it's that kind of like oh why wouldn't I take it. But in Scotland, and there's bits and bobs of phone signal, more than in Canada and people aren't really switched on to that systems maybe they're becoming more switched on. Yeah, and I think that probably everyone should carry one. And, but I also totally have, and I think of the same as, I think that people should be free to not carry one. But if people don't want to, like if you, and I, and I certainly get that sort of that feeling sometimes I just don't like having my phone or an in reach with me. And I accept that like it does have a slightly higher risk tolerance like if I'm running the mountains in Scotland. But generally if I'm if in summer that I know very well, and I feel comfortable not taking it. And there's something almost freeing. And I know that that that is not the safest option or the safest thing to do. But I respect people's rights to not take one, because I have heard people say well you should take one, which is kind of true, but I know what you mean and I, I never really understood why we have a different culture towards it in Scotland because I'm the same that if I'm out here I always think to have my spot or me I'm in reach or something like that. And I'm for some reason in Scotland. I mean I would have it, like, sometimes in the Highlands like only if I was going on an overnight trip for some reason when I have, I stop and think about it I've got no logical answer to any of this I go no you're right I should have just taken my spot. Yeah, yeah, I think we don't have a culture for it. Yeah, I think I think that it's if people often carry other things that are not as useful as like a safety precaution. So, so like, they might carry like an extra jumper or something like that right and and that's just like, that's nowhere near as effective as in reach mini so if you're concerned about it. And it's a good way I think what's nice about them is they have three preset messages and you can always just send a message that if you're running late, you can just send a message to whoever knows you're out. And it just says hey, we're still fine. Just running late. And so it's, it's like a really easy way to update people you can do it when you're at a belay even because it's so easy to use just press like three buttons and it sends it from anywhere. So I think it is a great resource and probably in Scotland, people. A lot of people would probably be interested in it if they if it was more publicly advertised or it's not sure. Yeah, and they are an investment I mean, but to be fair I bought mine something like five years ago so I feel like it's paid itself off you know they do stick around. Yeah. Well, I'm going to move on we have one last audience question and then we're going to wrap up pretty quickly. And do you have any ambitions to go to obviously climbing capital the world in Nepal. Oh, and yeah I'd really like to go there actually I've never I've never been I've been to India twice in Pakistan once and a lot the other big climbing ranges but yeah I've never I've never been to Nepal I would really like to go. And I suppose the trips I've done previously, I generally I'm really attracted by the sort of remoteness of the, even the villages you're at so like a lot of some of the villages went to last year in Pakistan. Like some of them have never even heard English spoken before. And so it's really sort of like off the truest trail. And I really get a lot of enjoyment of it going to these places so. So I think I will go to Nepal at some point but and yeah I've sort of enjoyed going to the slightly less serious areas and so far. Yeah, definitely. I mean, Nepal is amazing that if you're kind of like there's the Everest bubble, but you can just so easily never engage with that bubble. Because the rest of it is quite wild and you can really authentic, Nepali experience. And so I guess we have one last question the obvious question. What's next. So I'm still in Canada, and I'm going to spend the winter here obviously travel isn't isn't very good right now so that's, but that's fine there's lots to do here for me. And in the spring, I shall see potentially Alaska. Yeah, I'll see after that but there's nothing I don't actually have anything too fixed which, which is fine by me I'll see I'll just see what comes up and what happens I think it's a good time to stay flexible and and really lucky in that I've got lots of climbing options here. It's not, there's no point in planning long term at the moment is there. Yeah, yeah, I think I think it's. Yeah, just trying to sort of just join yourself rather than sort of be too focused on one thing. Well, I have no doubt I'm going to see your name light up the news anytime soon with a new first descent so looking forward to it it was really cool to get to chat to you. And thanks everyone who tuned in and for all your questions. And anyone that wants to ask you further questions how will they get in touch with you. Yeah, they can contact me on Instagram, or my email is just my name so no, no, no, no, it's eastern hopper and gmail.com. If you can, if you can email him. You can email me or any other way. Yeah, also open to sort of stuff like that. So that's fine. Awesome. Well thanks very much dude. Yep. Okay, yeah. Thanks for watching. Bye.