 Is BCLN here for us? That is wrong, but what can we do about it? Imagine if everyone thought like that, bro. If it's certified halal, and the place we know it's halal, and everyone says it's halal, then why shouldn't I trust it? I can give you many reasons why you shouldn't trust it. I should assume because Qatar is a Muslim country. You should never assume. You should be sure, yeah, true, that is true. You should never assume anything. It's so bad for the goat a little. That's it, but yeah. It's good that you said that. Muhammad. Muhammad? Yeah. And why aren't you vegan? Well, I just enjoy food to be honest. I enjoy food, too. Yeah, but we're not talking about food here. We're talking about like animals being raised in the capitated to eat, yeah? That is wrong. I'm going to say that is wrong. But like, what can we do about it? Good question. That's why we hit. Like, if I'm vegan, will that help the animals that are still in the like the place that are being slaughtered? It'll help the animals that go to the slaughterhouse on your behalf. I'm just one person. If I turn vegan, there's still going to be animals that get slaughtered. I'm just one person. Imagine if everyone thought like that, bro. I'm just one person. What can I do? One person can have quite an impact, actually. If I was to tell you, say, about 200 animals go to the slaughterhouse or get tortured and killed for you every year, would that make a difference in your mind? It would a little bit, yeah, because it's cruel. What is your worldview about the world? Are you religious? Do you have a? I'm Muslim. You're Muslim? Yeah. You see what's happening to animals in today? Yeah. And you think this is wrong? It's wrong because like in Islam, the way we should kill them in a halal way. We should make it painless and we should hide the blade from the animal and we should kill them from the neck. So it's instantly killed them and they don't feel any pain. So respect for the animal? Yeah. Is what Islam thinks. If you're killing it, yeah, respect it and hide the blade from it. And why? Why do they matter morally enough for Islam to recognise that they suffer and to minimise that suffering? Do you know what I mean? Because they are like still beings. They're still living. Sentient. Yeah, they're still sentient. They can think, they can. All right. So God gave them a brain functioning nervous system. They get emotions as well. They get scared. They feel happiness. Yeah. All of these things? Yeah. That's why it's told for us to hide the blade from the animal because it will get scared. OK. Let's say you buy animal products from the supermarket or from wherever you get Halal certified Halal meat from. How can you be certain of anything that's happened along the supply chain to the animals? Factory farms, slaughterhouse. We cannot be certain. OK. We cannot. So it's your idea that you just trust the Halal logo? I mean, if it's certified Halal and the place we know it's Halal and everyone says it's Halal, then why shouldn't I trust it? I can give you many reasons why you shouldn't trust it. One, if you're eating chickens, most of them are factory farmed in the UK statistically. And they will take those animals and take them to be Halal slaughtered and put a Halal stamp on it because it's mostly about the slaughter here in the UK. And it's not about how they're being raised. And I know you can't cause animals' needs of suffering in Islam. Secondly, you don't know what's going on inside the slaughterhouses because you don't watch animals be slaughtered. You don't know if they're being slaughtered without seeing the knife, without being in fear. You don't know if they're slaughtering injured animals if they come from a life of suffering. And I can tell you a majority of the time when you're mass producing, because the population is so much higher now than it was when the Hedidites were written back in this time. The population has grown, so mass production. Animals are now a unit of production. And you're going to have suffering all throughout the industry. Another point is that you don't need to eat animals at all. True, that is true. So the most compassionate choice. Is to not eat animals, yes. One of the prophets said, if you were to kill as much as even a sparrow unjustly, then you will face the judgment of God or something like this. Something, yeah, I'm not that sure. No, you can kill them for food if you need to or something like this. We don't need to now. But the thing is in Islam, we have a festival, we have a festival called Hedid. Hedid. Yeah, it's Hedid. It's not a mass for us, but we should... I've seen, and it's not mandatory. Yeah, it's not mandatory, but I think it's, like it gives you rewards and good deeds. But we don't get the goats from the market. We kill it ourselves, like we slaughter it ourselves. Have you done that? My parents have done it, my parents and my uncles. Have you seen it done? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, what did you feel? I mean, it was a bit like... You feel right about it? No, not right about it, I just got... You feel bad for the goat a little? A little bit, yeah. It's a good day, you said that. What should we do? If we are created by God and God gave us a conscience, and when we see an animal that is scared about to have their throat slashed open and we feel like that's wrong in our heart, I think we should listen to that. Because it's not mandatory to eat animals in Islam. You can be vegan, it's fine. They're saying meat is permissible. But back then, now look at the technology, everything's changed, we have alternatives, we have plant agriculture, we have... And eating vegan, you know it's halal. You don't have to worry, you know what I'm saying? So as a Muslim, you can be vegan and that's consistent with your religion. And in fact, it's most consistent because it's the most compassionate, isn't it? Because you don't have to worry about all this stuff you don't see. And then mindlessly going into the supermarket and buying something that you don't see. If you know the truth and you don't act on it, then you become responsible. So if you know the truth about what could possibly be happening to these animals and you could never be sure, can you? Yeah, you can. And back then, they had one, like a lamb out the back, one animal here, they didn't have factory farms, mass production, things like this. I agree with you. I just have a question for you. What are your stats on vegetarians? The ones that don't eat meat but they eat animal products? I know eggs and dairy, they're automatically halal, yeah? There's no halal stamp, you can eat them, they're permissible, same with fish. In these industries, these animals now because of mass production, they essentially rape the cow so they stick their entire arm up their anus to hold the cervix and they inject them with semen that they get from the bulls. Is bestiality happening? That's Haram, eh? Yeah, of course that is, yeah. Is bestiality Haram? Yeah, it's just... They call it artificial insemination but basically they're jacking off bulls, the male animals to get the semen and they inject it in the cow, which is bestiality, probably Haram, which causes the cow suffering anyway. Then when she's impregnated, they take the calf away, which causes the cow suffering. So she's sad, causes the baby suffering too. If they're boys that don't produce milk, they get killed. If they're females, they get put in confinement away from their mum to be grown for milk as well. And they do this process to keep her producing milk, yeah? Keep doing it, keep doing it. So she can't get pregnant anymore then she goes to the slaughterhouse where she will be slaughtered non-halal and be minced up into burgers, yeah? So that's the dairy industry. Now, this industry didn't exist when the halal standards were being written? No, it did not. It exists now? It exists now, yeah. So my argument to Muslims is that this industry is Haram. And my argument to vegetarians is that it violates their rights. It causes the animal suffering. It's needless and we don't need milk or eggs. Egg industry is just as bad. Perlong suffering, they're pushing out egg every day. They die on their faces. They push out all the nutrients. They go to the gas chamber to be killed at the end of it. The egg industry, I would say it's also Haram, but it's also just in oil. Yeah. All right, thank you, sir. So what are you gonna do? Well, you have convinced me to research more about the vegan and the factories and all that. Do you think that it's a possibility or in your mind now, it's a possibility for vegan Muslims? Yeah, it is a possibility. Like, it has opened my eyes to be a better... And you always know it's halal, unless it's alcohol. You always know vegan is halal. I mean, where I come from, it is like, I'm not from here. I'm from Qatar. It's a Muslim country, follow it. So I am like, sure, it is... Qatar's got a big vegan population there, too. I never knew that, to be honest. But I know about the vegan food. Someone was telling me the other day that Qatar's got a lot of vegan food and vegan... But they've got factories full of chickens as well. Yeah, of course, but I've been to the factory before. They treat the animals right. I've seen a total of the factory of the cows there. But what I've seen, they've treated the grains. What about, I'm talking about chickens. Have you seen the chicken factories? I have not, I have not. But like, I should assume because Qatar is a Muslim country. You should never assume. You should be sure, yeah, true. You should never assume anything. When you have mass production, they're out of the country. And you remember, these slaughterhouses are closed doors. We discussed when you seen the lamby slaughter, right? Yeah. And how you felt... Yeah. Do we need to do this? Like, I know you can do charity. There are many ways to... To get the deed, yeah. Many ways. There doesn't have to be this animal. And you know what they do and eat now? I've seen the most cutting the animal's heads off, leaving their bodies on the floor, which is terrible. That's not the correct way. So what they're doing is wrong. But anyways, it's needless to do this. And she can make other sacrifices, is what I'm saying. Yeah. Like, especially moving with the times. And what happens when there's three billion Muslims on there? You're going to get all these animals to slaughter for eat and leave them all there? What about there was 10 billion Muslims on there? We are Muslims. We just chop up food to eat. We just cut them up to eat and cook them and treat them because we're haggis. But what if you're... We don't throw them, we respect them. We eat all of it and we don't leave anything on our name. But what if... My argument is, if you don't need to, now that you can... Because I've been vegan for nearly 10 years and everyone can get vegan food. And it's better for the earth, God's earth, right? Because they don't have to feed all these plants to the animals and kill the animals. You don't have to worry about suffering. My argument is if we don't need to do it, then why don't we just make the more compassionate choice which is to be vegan, which is in alignment with Islam anyway? If you have to face God, you can say, well, I felt I was giving compassion to the animal. Yeah? Because just to give a compassion to an animal is the same as giving compassion to a human. You can just say that? Yeah, I think you can, yeah. There's no reason why you can't be vegan. That's all my argument is. Oh, right. Bless you, my friend. Yeah, take care. Take care, brother. No worries. Bless you, mate. Thank you. I think that when I asked, I think he was a bit like taking a back, really, because I'm quite intense. I don't think he had anything to say. I think it was just life.