 So we're going to open the meeting. First thing is to approve the agenda. I'd like to add or modify a couple items. One is I would like to talk a little bit about Brown rules of behavior. Right after the agenda is approved. And I like my number seven update from Papa. I'd like to add that. I'm going to present the invoice. You got emailed. It's attached to the agenda. It's for the presentations. That would be added to number seven. And on number eight, we're going to discuss the schedule of the annual meeting, but also a bit about the three year budget. And the town meeting validizing with that. Subject matter. Anyone else has something to add. If there's no dissent, then I would say by unanimous consent, we'll accept the agenda with those modifications. Thank you. And when I talk about Brown rules, it's just really important that we're in the meeting that we have procedures. And I like the one that the city council has adopted about best attention. Intentions that we assume the best intentions from each of us. But by the same token, we need to make sure that we're not attacking people when we do such things. And we need to make sure that we're not attacking people. And we need to make sure that we have this degree. And that we can be called out of order when we do such that it's really important to respect that we're all here. Trying to support the advancement of public safety for our region. And with that, I'd just like to say that I feel. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Not only in sometimes these meetings, but on the streets and other public meetings where he's criticizing me personally and making accusations. About things that I cannot deal with in the context that he's presenting them. So I just want to go on record here. I'm asking Steven not to do that. That if you have difficulty with whatever happens in my role. I'm not going to do that. Thank you. And this meeting. And public safety authority meetings. And even within those meetings, I asked if you don't attack me and call me a liar challenge my ethics. That I'm any. Making mistakes. Okay, we'll correct them. Trying to address to be more transparent. We'll do better. But attacking a person. So I would ask you to try to contain and focus on the public record issues that you have and the open meeting law records of the activity that you have. Thank you. And now we have public comment. Steve Whitaker. Thank you, Steve Whitaker. First, I'm raising a point of order that the, the effective participation required under open meeting law has not yet accommodated these hybrid meetings. And the way the city deals with it is by connecting a laptop to a screen and having amplified speakers. In the meeting, we were relying on Donna's laptop and speakers, which were facing her and denying the public, the ability to see who's speaking and to hear properly. What's going on in a meeting. So that is not compliant with the spirit and intent of open meeting law. You know, a nosebleed seat where you can't quite hear what's going on, or you can't see who's talking unless everyone wants to identify themselves every time they speak is inconsistent with the purpose of having a designated location for somebody to participate in a meeting. So I will differ and defend against the allegations that I am attacking. I am blunt about calling violations of open meeting and public records law. That's not an attack. That's a point of fact that's a, a characterization of compliance with the law. To the exaggerations and the hyperbole that you just heard about how Donna feels are not consistent with what conversations we've had. But the problem here is that that even the city is making preparations to, if we're going to use a designated location. A machine connected to zoom has to be hooked up to a screen that can be seen by everyone in the room and speakers so such that everyone in the room can hear and having a laptop. Brent's laptop is unavailable to be shared tonight because he's keeping the minutes and Donna needs to be able to stare at hers. So, I'm just raising that one. Secondly, the agenda tonight does not include board discussion of the open meeting violation notice that was filed. That requires the board to take action, which hasn't happened. So, I have worked and as you know this this has been an issue with capital fire it's been an issue with other, you know, I'm a stickler for making sure we're warning meetings properly, allowing for participation in the meetings and getting minutes posted on time, etc. And I do not want to see after years of investment by many of us. This organization is following the same problems of playing fast and loose with the law. And as an example, I heard at the last meeting. The chair says, Oh, let's go ahead and proceed. And we'll fix it by ratifying it at another meeting it affected the admission of violation of open meeting law. We'll fix it by ratifying it the next meeting. That doesn't fly that will not fly in front of a judge. It shouldn't fly among any of you to the ethical standards that the oath you've taken here. So, I ask your adherence to strict open meeting law and public records law. I have comments about the telemate report and the, which I was not able to make under the circumstances of last meetings, limited laptop and no visual of who's speaking. So here we go from here with financing and engineering phase of beyond the telemate report. So I asked your support in making sure I have an opportunity at the appropriate time in the discussion, and then I not get shut out by the chair. You're still here. They won't recognize me without. Oh, it's based password. I can't see you on here. Well, you might be able to see me sorry when I can't flop. My understanding is as long as I give Steve access to talk into the computer and he can hear that we are not required to have equipment we happen to be in a room of the cities that has equipment, but we do not have that expertise or permission to use their equipment. So this is something that the board wants to proceed with and we can see what that will be, but at some point, you know, the city is lending us this space, and they may be willing without cost I don't know. But what I have been advised is that the open meeting law at this point does not expect everyone to be able to do what the city of Montpellier has, or city of Barry has as far as equipment. So indeed anytime Steve wants to talk and point of order within the meeting. Give me his laptop to him to face and he can talk into it, and he can hear that's the most important he can hear. And I will verify I am going to the violations about the open meeting law I did not read that as having to come back to the board. I will do that and proceed accordingly. The next aspect is the improvement of minutes to July 10, June 10, August 12. I'm sorry to interrupt. I'm sorry you got a thumb up there by the tree. Sorry, I couldn't see. Yeah, I just want to know who else is in the room because I can't see a quorum in my gallery. Okay. Yes. All right. I'll come back to attendance. Jim you have something you're waving. You're muted Jim. Yeah, with regard to Steven's comments. I have been quite familiar with open meeting law over the years. They may be in some recent changes because of COVID that I'm not aware of. But the law requires that the public be able to see how someone votes. That's all. I recommend that we do a roll call on each vote that will accommodate that. And I also want to say that I think Steven's made some valuable contributions at times, but it's outweighed by his disruption. And I would ask that you strictly enforce the public comment period, limited to the time that you've awarded, and then go on and not allow any more public comment outside of that time. Okay. I would appreciate it if everybody just I will say, Oh, Doug, you have your hand up. Go ahead Doug. You're muted too. I don't want to belabor this anymore than it's absolutely necessary but I just remind Steven and everybody else that the zoom link in the audio link is open to all. And this meeting is being recorded. I do not see any open meeting violations. Okay, for attendance, what I see is I see Jim, Doug, Kim, and myself that we have a salad, we have five people and me. Oh, Brett, we have six people here. Are you on the screen? So we have six board members here. Does that answer your question, Kim? Yes, it does. I guess. Okay, and I think it's a good point I think it's helpful for people to say their name, and then speak, because even when I can see I don't always know who's speaking, looking at the screen so just say your name and then make your comment that'll help the secretary as well as Steven. So I'm looking for approval of the minutes for June 1012 and September 9. Doug you're muted but I see you talking. You can tell my lips are moving. I move approval. And Jim, was that a second on your mouth? I'll second. Okay, Jim second. Any other further comments about the minutes. Yes, I want to compliment Brett on a very thorough job there's a real record here that is hopefully some historian will find them interesting so thank you, Brent. Okay. All in favor of approving the minutes, say I wave your hand. Oh no we're going to do it out loud. We're going to do it out loud so I'm just going to go across this my screen as you appear. So, Jim. You have to unmute yourselves folks. Hi. Thank you, Doug. Hi, Brent. Hi, Kim. Hi, Sally. Hi. And myself. I Did I miss anybody. Okay. Next is, you just passed the minutes for September 9. But just to be absolutely sure that we're verifying ratifying all the motions pass at the September 9 meeting that were included in those minutes. This is to correct any inverted error that was done with not having the right posting of the agenda and city hall. I entertain a motion to ratify all the motions pass on September 9. Also move. Thank you, Kim. Second from Jim. Any further discussion. All in favor. Jim. I heard an eye but you did the opposite to you muted when you should have. We still can't hear you Jim you're muted. I'm sorry Jim we still haven't heard a yes. Hi. Thank you. Doug. Yes. Brent. Hi. Kim. Hi. Sally. Hi, Donna. Hi. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. I would like to review and approve payment for the annual membership of Vermont League of city and towns. The membership for an as a full associate member is $950. It is due. It was actually due July 1, but they sent the bill to Kim and we've gotten that address around. The full membership, which allows me access to their legal team there for advice that I've used for both the open meeting law and what. And record request. So that's an additional $320 annually, which is probably what two hours with a lawyer Kim. I have no idea, but I guess it's something like that. I think it's quite worth it. I really found it worth it this year and you can make a decision next year or not, but I would really appreciate the full membership and continued. Connection with their legal team. I always think talking to lawyers is money well spent. Okay, so entertain a motion to be made for paying them the $950. Before we wrote on that. Can you tell me how much is in the treasury. Yes, we have. Oh, well, it's complicated because if you take out the invoice and you should be receiving from television. Yeah. And what we've allocated for Paco. We have probably about $42,000. Oh, okay. With everything that's allocated, not really spent, because not all the invoices have come in. Okay, accounting. That would be the balance when everything's paid. And that's spending the full 55,000. Around the study. And that includes another item that's going to be later talked about. Yes, it's about 52 53,000. And we'll get a report soon. I expect that I just just wanted to know where we stand. Thank you. Okay. I think we have allocated because we don't have an active treasure and it would be wonderful if we could modify that, but I will get a full report to you in November because along with the annual meeting coming up, we have to also start looking at our three year budget. Back to this motion to keep us focused here. Okay. So any other comments about the motion specific, the payment to Vermont League membership $950. I support it. I'll move. We approve it. So we'll take the vote. Jim. Yeah. Second. Cool. I have a second. So. You raise another one as Bev declined to continuous treasure. She's for this year. Yes. I don't think she wants to continue next year. Okay. So any other comments about the motion specific, the payment to Vermont League. Membership $950. I have a second. I'll second. Brent's going to second motion. Thank you for that reminder. Jim. Hi. Yes. Brent. Hi. Kim. Yes. Sally. Hi. Myself. Hi. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Okay. So basically the next item is to let, let you all know, and to have a little discussion about how it's a presentation on October 19th. That's 6pm. It's the joint council meeting that Barry city council will host. And even though they're hosting it, both the public safety authority and capital far will be posting their own agenda is taking their own minutes. It would be helpful to have Barry, give Barry an idea of how many of us are coming right now. I plan to attend in person. Rick and Dom will be on remote. And for my player city council right now, only the mayor plans to be in person. Everyone else expressed last night at city council meeting, they would be attending remote. So it is there. People could raise their hand if you think you want to be in person. I'm just trying to line up chairs. We're all sort of sitting together as indeed you're coming. People plan to attend remotely. Okay, good, good. Great. Are we going to get a zoom link for that meeting? Yeah. So this very city council gives it to me. It's their zoom link. I've asked for it by Friday. If I get it, you'll get it. I have to put it in my agenda. Yeah, for us. Okay. And October 20th. Is a 7pm time for capital far mutual aid. And they've invited select board members to join them remotely. Now Montpeliers, because I reserve the space. We have the city council chambers, which I'd already reserved as we were going to do the joint meeting. So capital far is using that space. Actually. They prefer that regional plan that. Public safety authority hosted. So we'll host it live at the city. Chambers. And we'll do the remote link. And that will come out shortly. Any people here think they'll attend on the 20th. Or that presentation. In person. Okay. Now that's the one I have lined up Cameron to be here. So we will have the big screen. And there may be some city council members who may attend that. Just remotely, just to hear some of the discussions. Is that, is that a joint council meeting? No, the 19th is the one that's booked at the joint council meeting. The 20th is capital far mutual aid. And they're select board members that they've invited. I don't know. Well, I will attend. I don't know whether I'll be remote or in person. Okay. Anyone else. I hope you'd all attend remotely. If you can't come in person. And have some opportunity to exchange. Comments and here from capital far. Mutually. Chiefs. Any questions about the 19th and 20th that haven't been covered. Jim. Yeah, the capital far mutual aid meeting is the 20th. And where is it? It's going to be held at Montaer city hall. Montaer chamber room. And it will be held remotely hosted by us public safety authority. I'll attend that one. I am unable to be available Tuesday night the night before for the city council of area. Okay. Can I ask a question? Yes. What way do you believe will. Create the most interaction. In either meeting. The capital far because we're not limited to time. The very mayor really wanted to move the joint meeting. From the 20th to the 19th and incorporated into his city council meeting. So we only have exactly an hour. Six to seven. So it's going to be very focused meeting. And hence I've invited both councils. If they want to, because they might have more questions than are allowed in that hour to join us on the 20th. But the focus of the 20th is capital far. The focus on the 19th, the city council, the city council meeting. And because both capital far and public safety authority is likely that. Could have a quorum. It's considered in a meeting. So we have to do our own agendas our own set of minutes for both nights. And we would love people to be in person. If you want to come join us. On the 20th, particularly it will be, you know, we'll have a big screen and very on the 19th. We'll have theirs. And we'll have a lot of people. Okay. Just that those of us who are live have to speak through the mask. So you're not as easily heard. As you are when you're all remote. It's a constant problem at city council meetings. And likewise will be to ours. Any other questions on those two presentations. Now we have an invoice from. We have an invoice from the city council meeting. And we have a current since you attached from television for those presentations. It's 2,383. It's all broken down. It's estimate. If it's less time, they'll charge us less. And indeed, you know, they did so much extra without any overcharged pain. This will come out still under the 55. And we'll be able to do that. And we'll be able to do that. So that's one study. So I would really appreciate being able to advance this. Otherwise. This presentations are going to fall on us. And probably. I have to look to Doug. And Joe and Doug and Paco and many others to help. Carry the same weight that Rick and Dom will have on their own. So we'll be able to do that. And we'll be able to do that. And we'll be able to do that. That elevates expense up to the $2,383. That is their estimate costs for the two presentations. So moved. I'll second it. I think Doug quite second first. It's okay. Whatever works. Okay. Okay. So we have a discussion about this. All in favor, starting to vote. Jim. Hi. Doug. Hi. Brent. Hi. Kim. Hi. Sally. Hi. Donna. Hi. Now. I apologize. We have two people. One, I don't know, but others seem to. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. You're not a dispatcher coordinator in Montpelier. Yep. I'm the dispatch supervisor in Montpelier. Supervisor. Thank you for the right title. Sorry about that. Well, thank you for joining us. Really appreciate it. And hopefully you'll be able to join us for the presentations. Whether that's Thursday or Wednesday remotely or in person. Yeah. It'll depend on what our staffing issues look like. And I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I didn't even think about putting you on the distribution for that material, but I'll send it out to you tonight when I get home. Thank you. You're welcome. And. Caroline. You're there. And. Definitely. Madam chair. Nice to see you. Or. Here you were. Here you are, whatever. Nice to be here. Although Stephen did get to see the screen on this. Continue. We have the deputy chief and Barry. Joe Allsworth. And we have the chief. Doug Brent. We have Orca. Also on the screen. Did I miss anybody that's. Okay. Cool. Done. We've loaded on that. That's all done. Yep. Poco. How about your report on your working group? Hello, everybody. Poco. For those that. Would like me to introduce myself. I have to. I'll apologize ahead of time. I don't know what goes on with my computer, but every now and then it's pretty. It seems to be unstable. And I don't know if it's my internet connection or the computer, but it. It causes me to drop off. So I'm hoping I can get through this presentation. It's probably time to buy a new computer, but be that as it may. The bulk of my update is, or all of my update is centers around. A meeting that I convened on October 6th. With representatives of capital fire. Yeah. Casualty. Yeah. I think the cut out is your wife. Yeah. No, is it, is it bad? Yeah, you just totally, totally stop frozen. No words. How about now? Yep. Yep. All right. Let's try again. Meeting October 6th. Made up of representatives of capital fire. Berry city fire department. Montpelier police department. And Doug Hoyt representing CBPSA was there. Specifically Doug Brent. Brian Pete. Eric Nordstrom. Carrie McCool. Paul. Sally. Dylan. Will Sutton. And Joe. Allsworth was invited, but couldn't attend. At that meeting we, we, the intent was to try and see if we couldn't develop a consensus around how to move forward. With a working group. Who should be part of it? What should we be doing? And, uh, To see if we could come up with, say, a common vision. And, uh, Basically how to move forward. And the bottom line from the group. Was that. We really can't move forward until after the meetings of the 19th and 20th. It is vitally important. That the city councils and that the, Invited select board members from the Capitol fire communities. Hear about the project and basically give. Give the collective group. Give the public safety officials give CBPSA. A direction to move forward and authorize at least the establishment of. A committee and that establishment is really authorizing their staff. To work in a planning process. Concerning how to move this project forward. Uh, and, uh, In, in terms of who should be that with the makeup of that committee. It might be part of this core working group that we just, We just had on October 6th. It might be the current twin cities working group that exists. But the goal is to get good representation of key stakeholders. That have the time expertise and desire to participate in helping to advance this. Uh, radio communications project forward. Some of the, uh, I just go through some of the outcome statements that, uh, I heard, uh, or I should say statements that I heard people make was, uh, Basically keeping all communications on the year on the air is what the vision should be about. Recognition that the radio system is failing. Is it's both a reality and a safety issue for first responder. Uh, moving on funding this project should be the focus. The fiscal agents need to weigh in on. Before any further decisions about working groups can be made. Uh, it is. Oh, not everybody agreed that this should be a one project with costs shared by all. But I would have to say that it was the consensus of the group that this should be the focus. It's pointless to move forward without the governing bodies providing guidance as to how to move forward, especially around finances. Uh, no one has said the project is not needed, but an understanding of cost is very important. A summary of costs and payment models is important to produce so that everybody can see. What the dollars are going to be. What it's going to cost them. Uh, the televate report needs to be shared with all capital fire member communities. Select board representatives from capital fire communities. Need to attend the upcoming capital fire. CVPS a meeting. Again, working together on a single community. Project not separately is important. CVPS a future budget request should be asked of all CVPS members. That includes capital fire and capital fire. Mutual aid system in its communities need to contribute to CVPS a. Uh, we did, we did, uh, they suggested next steps. Uh, which. Basically should be that the capital fire representatives were there. Paul will and Sally should make out, should work through the capital fire mutual aid district system to get select board members at the October. 20th meeting. We need to somebody, this group for the future needs to finalize the cost of the project. And then develop cost models as to who pays what and how it's paid for. Work together with all select boards of CMSC. Uh, capital fire. Communities and expose them to what this. Uh, project is outreach and liaison work is very important. Um, Work together on a single radio community. Not work separately and obtain a realistic bond interest rate and develop a cost model. I can tell you, I will tell you and share with you that I've reached out to Vermont bond bank. And, uh, I was told that a general obligation bond as an interest rate about 1.6% right now. Um, I've done a considerable amount of research on, uh, the cost models of bonding. And, uh, unfortunately I got way more of a education on, um, not, I shouldn't say unfortunately I did get way more of a financial education that I thought I was going to get just by, uh, doing some research on, on the web. The bottom line for me is, uh, and I reached back out to the Vermont bond bank. And I gave them different funding scenarios. And they were going to develop for me a 10 year, uh, cost modeling, uh, proposal. Uh, I don't know if proposal is the right word, but some idea of the cost of, uh, uh, different, different cost models. I have told them that, uh, I, I gave them the rough cost for the entire project that's been identified. That's a 3.9 million dollars. I extracted out the twin cities proposal. And, uh, uh, I gave two scenarios for that one that Barry and Montpelier would pay for and one, uh, isolating the simulcast system or the remaining costs for the simulcast system for capital fire. And then I asked for a, uh, Bond cost model for a combined cost model. And I asked for a, uh, Bond cost model for a combined twin city and building project along with the radio consoles. Just to see what that would look like from a cost. I have not heard back from them yet. Uh, Anybody have questions for Paco? Yeah, that's, that's, that's pretty much, uh, that's pretty much it. But the other aspect that they bonding talked about is that a public safety authority. Public safety authority lacks substantial experience and administrative capacity to actually take on bonding. And you want to explain a little bit about that, Paco? Yes. When I, uh, when I introduced myself and talked about the, uh, central Vermont public safety authority and then gave an overview of the, uh, the, uh, project and what we had hoped to do, uh, the first thing, uh, Michael asked me was, uh, at a minimum we need two years of, uh, certified financial audits. And then he went on the webpage and saw that, uh, really central Vermont public safety authority is a fledging organization. And at best has only had a maximum of a hundred thousand dollar, uh, budget. And then he asked if we had any assets, which I said CBPSA has no assets. And so he said, while, while bonding an organization such as CBPSA is not impossible, there are an awful lot of hurdles that we would overcome. And he candidly said the easiest way to get this project funded is through the two cities. So, uh, that's, that's the information that I have from the Vermont bond bank on bonding. Uh, and as we move as the organizations move forward, um, that's got to be a consideration. Again, how's it, how are we going to pay for it? What is the cost model? We're paying for it, which leads me to, uh, one other aspect of, of the working group, if you will, um, my recommendation to everybody is that this should be less labeled a CBPSA project as it is, is a cult, uh, a, uh, coalition coalition. Yes. It's, uh, it's, it's a coalition. I think that's a, that's probably the best word CBPSA can take maybe the lead and, and, and helping to steer it, take the lead at least in planning. Uh, but I don't know that, that the coalition has really decided on, how it's going to be managed and who's going to pay for what, and who's going to be the fiscal agent. So I think we ought to keep that in mind as, I think you ought to keep that in mind as you move forward and, uh, make sure that the coalition has the best interest of all public safety agencies in central Vermont. Uh, at its forefront, not that nobody has to this date, but we, we, we, we CBPSA gets visioned whole as a, as an entity that, that, um, uh, may not be capable or in a position to take on such a project as this. And it's not about CBPSA. I like the word coalition. Yes. And, uh, if I can just jump from there. And if there's questions specifically to follow, people can go back, but because that leads to, I mean, my emphasis is we're talking about a regional network, coalition, whatever entity, various governance, cost allocation, the ministry falls under, doesn't have to be some of the Vermont public safety authority, but we need to be participant in it. And we have the planning money to be, to kick it off with this small core team looking at some initial governance models and some cost formulas and some of the other projects. And tell of eight gave me, um, just, um, like, uh, off the napkin estimate 30, $35,000 to work on that. Part one of the next phase, governance and cost allocation, but that indeed we will probably need to go to the. Towns on town meeting day with. And that would be the best for funding to complete phase two, because it's not only formulation of whatever entity, this coalition ends up being with its own governing model, cost formula, but also they would be doing the RS. RFP for the equipment. So that could start moving at the same time we reach out for funding sources. And that's what we're going to see for this year, March 22, 2022, that we consider at our next meeting that I will be sending new materials between now and then we consider what we might need to put on the ballot in order to continue this planning model. So the coalition can have a very substantial entity that the committee can commit to and move forward with the 3.9 million equipment acquisition. And so if nothing else, public safety authority can keep moving on the planning portion to support this entity, whatever it ends up being, but that we would able to use the expertise we started out with here with Tel Aviv. We said we were going to do phase two. We just have to put the money in place to Oracle Ford to do it. And so we're going to have to put the money in place. So we're going to have to put the money in place. So especially reaching out to invest in the select board. We really need someone facilitating their involvement, going to them really talking directly with them and bringing them on board along with all the capital far cheats in those communities. So what I'm proposing, do you have you all think about and hopefully kick off a discussion tonight. Thank you all for being here. Thank you. Thanks so much. Thank you to Tel Aviv for phase two. Part one. That's just dealing with governance and some formula, cost formula funding models. And then. What would go on the town meeting. For us to have by FY23. Would be money that then they would work on the RFP, not only created, that's really viable with other funding sources so that we can do what he wants us to do what we know we need to do. We need federal dollar, state dollar, local dollar that none can do it on its own. And so that by FY24 we actually then can go out and ask for the 3.9 million or whatever it is at that point. Did I lose anybody? This coming March would be about more planning money and then the next March would be about capital acquisition. And so we would lay that out to be discussed at their November meeting so then we have our annual meeting in December. Our first our meeting in December right now is December 9th and if we start advertising close to right after our November meeting we'll make our 30 days notice to get our annual report out, our three-year budget out, get our warnings done, get ourselves in line with all the deadlines for the cities because we do our voting through them. So we have the corporate not only our charter deadlines but also the city deadlines. So this really has to start in motion in November to meet all those. Have I lost anybody? Sorry to get in the flow. Paco. Donna I want to again reiterate that having Televate still involved I think is important. We cannot do any cost modeling at this point until we we ask Televate the question of it is the cost proposals that they presented realistic. Can they be altered downward at all? Can they take another look at the cost numbers and see if in fact they're accurate as we move forward perhaps towards an RFP. The other part that we have to keep Televate engaged for is there needs to be a refinement and or a validation of the scope of work requirements that will go into an RFP. So you know I keep hearing people talk about an engineering study well maybe so but in my mind that all that all starts with understanding again the needs of the Central Vermont Public Safety Authority and that those needs are captured properly in a scope of work to go in an RFP and I really think that Televate is the entity that that will have the best ability and expertise to do that so they're important to stay around. Well and the only correction or addition I would say to that Paco is not public safety authority in need it's a coalition's need that Televate really needs to nail it's a coalition. Doug Brick can you speak? Can you hear me? Yes sir. All right first first try. A couple things as I think about and I hear anything as far as this planning goes that ends in the last two numbers of 24. Somebody needs to ask Televate or somebody else is what we got going to last till then number one number two because I don't think it is number two and Paco just spoke of it is there any way to talk to Televate about adjusting their numbers down if it ends in 24 the numbers are not going to go down between now and 2024 they're going to go up and thirdly in talking to a vendor the other day I said if I had a box of money sitting in my office right now and said let's build this when can you have me on the air next November not 30 days from now next November so whatever our planning date ends and whenever we go out and think about awarding a contract we got another whole year to think about being on the air after that and will what we got now last that long and what do we do if it doesn't I totally agree and so does Rick and Dom it's like within our structure of funding and our town meeting requirements how how can we make it sooner Doug I don't know how to make it sooner I mean can we possibly be ready for this March to make a big capital request I don't know I think as Paco has spoken and you have as well Donna I think that next Tuesday and Wednesday are very important nights for this because this group of people that's here not just the CVSA members but everybody that's vested in this are going to walk away from that knowing if there is any appetite for this project whatsoever at that point I know that I will be able to answer to my city council and say you know what we need to move on on our own or we need to wait out this this process because they're going to ask for me to weigh in on that because absolutely the safety of our employees the safety of my employees as I send them out the door is going to depend on this so I have two questions one is let's just say because they ask I'm asking the councils on Tuesday night is for them to direct their twin city teams to invite capital, farm, mutual aid and public safety authority along with our consultants to develop some regional governance models and funding formulas and can they do that in November December I mean how fast can they do that are people on board to do it quick and if they within those models there's one of the city says we'll take on the bonding go forth and put it on the ballot and then right there and then you use the cost formula they said to put it on the ballots which has to include capital bars towns so you see it gets complicated I don't know how to do it quicker than the March 23 I mean I'm totally with you find a way I'll follow anybody Paco Paco I don't think he's there well he's muted but my question is I don't see him I'm here is an RFP premature what if we asked our vendors this is what we want to build could we do an RFP and get a number uh no in fact they're really hesitant of even trying to do an RFP before you have the funding because the RFP goes to the vendor to match that not telling you what equipment you want before you figure out what your standards are the RFP then says this is our standard of performance do you match it with the equipment and you're held accountable until that equipment gets us to that standard yeah that makes sense to me but I don't see how we can ask the cities to bond to do things for the towns unless the towns are in well that's why we have the core team working with and that's what no that's that's the hard nut to crack uh but it just I mean Doug Brent is right I mean it's not fast enough and likewise are there examples you're willing to share with this joint councils on Tuesday of saying these are the real life threats that can go wrong these are the ones that have already gone wrong that we managed to get through without losing a life I mean are you willing to be bold enough to show that vulnerability and real clear functional terms to the councils because I don't think they get it otherwise uh one thing that Fred Collins did really well before he left he got mom to your city council to really hear what would happen if the consoles went down even though we felt that it wasn't that old he really made a plea about how it functioned what would happen when it didn't function right how hard it is to get parts out of things that are no longer being made I mean he made a good case they heard it um and that's what I'd like us to do on Tuesday is somehow bring the person the actual situations for the worker and the residents who are in crisis and what failed participation means to that Sally you have suggestions Joe Doug I mean really I think we need some really core examples like that Jim yeah I'd like to just kind of follow through on Chief Brent's hypothetical because it might really be the item that gets the city council's attention if there was a catastrophic failure and now as this set up right now they're really two different systems if there was a catastrophic failure in the Montpelier capital west system capital west customers would expect them to rectify it so the whole followaxe might be on Montpelier and the same would be the case with Berry City if it went down you have customers you have contracts that you have to meet and when you're in that position you don't have a lot of choice you just go out and buy it and that's not something that I think that either city council would would would welcome or relish so that might just give them some pause to say we need to have a better plan in place that gets executed before that any sort of catastrophic failure so I just started thinking of that as he was talking what happens if it does feel whose back is it on whose back is the monkey on it's on each city council on each city alone anyone willing to work on that approach for Tuesday night definitely Rick is working on the focus of his information is using the information within the report but supplementing from the angle of what is at risk that's the question I've asked him to answer for the city councils what's at risk and if we can supplement that with your own experiences frontline people of where you feel vulnerable where things haven't worked where for the love of god we didn't have a crisis worse than what happened that would really be I think just so meaningful hey Donna yes Joe I'm not volunteering okay but there's a third leg to Jim's stool is that the infrastructure that is on the towers is owned by capital fire and that also leans on to them and they are not prepared to to cackle a catastrophic failure and Sally I look to you I mean that that's the truth and we've talked about it and they're currently not prepared to address that yeah there isn't a plan right now if that were to happen okay uh Steven's asked to speak uh Steve Whitaker here I I would suggest that you ask tell of eight even if it's an add-on function to identify the weak links and and where spares might be it looks like it's going to take a year or two before a new system can be constructed if not longer both planned financed and and constructed and tested so I think what I don't find in the tell of eight report is the inventory that's was the purpose of asking the photos in the inventory I understood Dominic was going to provide to Paco instead all he provided was was tele was photos but the inventory of what are the weekly pieces of equipment that could fail and are spares available and how quickly could they be installed I believe is a necessary prudent precaution to be taken now I don't doubt that there are vulnerabilities in the system that could take it offline or both systems very and capital capital fires but identifying what where those weak links are and taking necessary planning steps to inform and reassure these city councils that this is a prudent investment in this planning and we can find a way to bridge this system uh reliability until that time is a new system to be brought online so that's that's my suggestion any clear statements people want to make or offer to make on Tuesday evening or send me some narrative that I can offer and definitely uh as both uh I or tell me to talk we would love the support in the audience to get in person or remote when you want to chime in to support or emphasize or supplement an aspect the end result is getting the city councils committed absolutely committed to act and be involved and to own this coalition and help us get to the goal Doug is that a way Doug point you're muted not anymore um I'd like to take a shot at trying to put Joe on towards a little bit on a on a spot here Joe in terms of when we get to uh Tuesday do all the discussion you're probably as as familiar with as familiar with the entire system as anybody is um so if you had to place a hundred dollar bet tomorrow what piece of equipment would you bet is going to be the first to fail I know that's a shot in the dark but if you had to bet that's a stumper I know I know what are you worried the most about to be honest with you it's the system itself I think that it's important to realize that some of the components are in excess of 35 years old yeah that some of the towers uh need need to be finished upgrade to uh e-lines you know the fiber but also the core of the uh the dispatch system is the consoles and right now it's been identified and Fred did a good job about it is that the consoles are obsolete there's no there's no parts to be had other than to hit the open market and try to find something so so I can't really tell you on that hundred dollar uh challenge Doug is which one will go first but the core of the dispatching system is the consoles and Chief Brett and I have had this conversation they are essential to to working and if something happens in berry and it goes down with the consoles we have the bridge for Montpelier to absorb that but that's an issue because that's a huge burden on Montpelier to all of a sudden absorb that vice versa if Montpelier were to go down for berry to step up and take that all on and one shot that's huge now if you look at the towers individually each tower serves a community and if that tower goes down the other towers can pick up the slack but there are going to be holes there are going to be issues with coverage and that's where the lives are affected what Chief Brett was saying is that those those emergency responders kind of go in the dark because they're not interlinked is that okay so I know I know that doesn't answer your question Chief no it does it does answer the question because I think the focus has to be on on the consoles if I'm hearing everything um and the cities have already committed themselves the consoles yeah but it's not done they're committed but money's in the budget well FY 22 it was in the budget and pulled out because of it doesn't reduce revenue so it's still there's a priority to backfill with uh rescue money yeah I'm from I'm from a state that wants to see it okay okay oh oh you know I've I've been around this this block before you know we'll get to it we'll get to it next year and next year comes and goes and we're still getting to it um I think it's the the answer that Joe was getting to was was the consoles but it's also it's also an effect the system and and if uh if one of one of the consoles go down or a part of that console goes down you know things get pretty tough but if uh if a tower goes down there's a way to work around it perhaps maybe all depends which one goes down you know if it's if a tower goes down that's only serving a small population versus a tower that goes down it's serving a large population that's a much different problem so it just can't it just can't pick out a particular tower it needs to go I think the report's going to point out that the reason I asked the question to Joe and I apologize Joe for putting you on a hot spot but if we're talking about what it is that we're going to talk about um on Tuesday and or even Wednesday for that matter um what's going to fail what's our priority when I say our priority I mean the central public safety theory but central Vermont all of it you know Montclair, Barry and all of the other organizations that are providing these critical links of communication what's our priority and what needs to be identified and addressed one day what are we going to do could I ask a question of about okay if Doug's done oh yeah yeah I'm done okay okay yes Kim do other councils that we're talking about buying the state of the art will they handle future needs of the organization or they just to keep the status quo I'm thinking of LTE and other forms of communication that might come in the future is your question related to the consoles they're considering yes the specs for it specs for those councils have they been spec'd out do we know what's being asked for well I know that Fred had quite a few ideas about it but no the RFPs have not gone out they have not been my understanding Joe correct me uh well I'm gonna I'm gonna look to Carrie for for some input but from what I understand the consoles that were spec'd out were expandable and were able to to address future needs but they were mainly focused on uh the current system that's my understanding as well who did the specs is that televate did they help you with that or where do those come from no sorry I'm interrupting people here um those were something that the the previous dispatch supervisor Fred Cummings had gotten numbers for the specs on yeah he went to the vendor and and and specs well I think we are asked to elevate to weigh in on before we buy something to make sure they'd fit future needs uh that's absolutely the next step after we deal with this first big couple of giant steps yes or the specifics of the equipment but anything else directly dealing with failure weak links what's the risk yes very brief okay uh Steve wants to make another comment okay I'm gonna make a very specific suggestion here and I think y'all just ask you to take it under advisement take notes and verify elsewhere the issue of connectivity the fiber what Joe refers to as Eli it doesn't have to be Eli and from consolidated there are various competitive options for that but it basically means fiber connectivity to the power sites that's something that we're gonna need no matter what no matter how long it takes and I see the weakest links from what I'm hearing the weakest links in the system are generator backup power that can be addressed now it's easy to size a generator for a system that will install a few years from now connectivity which is the fiber the consoles which we are discussing about not yet ready to settle and then even microwave backup connections microwave can provide a connection to the transmit tower even if a hurricane comes through and blows down the aerial fiber so those are four things that we could do some pre-engineering on that we know will still serve the new system so I would ask you to consider asking televate assigning televate that task it's it's not a whole systems engineering but those are four things that we know are going to be useful to us with the current system and harden serve to harden the current system as well as serve in the new system thanks you know and the councils may very definitely certainly give us our homework and come back to them and we'll do that Doug Brent go ahead so to answer Stevens idea that he just had I don't believe that a majority of the things that he just spoke about are even in the price outs that televate has given us to date most of the communities that we're hoping to get behind this project are not even going to be close to being able to afford the numbers we've already got say nothing about added generators and things like that for each site I'm not disagreeing with him that this stuff doesn't need to be had I'm what I'm saying is that I don't believe any of the preliminary numbers that they've thrown us come talk about redundant microwave to every site and or generators for every site it's wonderful to harden every one of the sites we've all heard about it we all agree with it but I don't believe that pricing is even in the preliminary figures that they have thrown out Paco may know the answer to that and I might be completely wrong but I'm pretty sure about that Joe just so you know that currently all all current sites are being upgraded to e-lines that's already been in the process for the last year and a half and it will continue to go through that's already in the process most of the sites have generator backup the one site that was identified we've been working with Velco to connect that's the Woodbury Tower and they're in the process of doing that and Burlington Communications has been helping us with the load on that so that's that's an in process so just just to make sure everybody knows that okay microwave links were not included in the televate proposal okay I think as far as trying to focus on this within the city councils there's only so much I'm gonna call it details on equipment they're going to absorb but the the base essence of the equipment listed within the 3.9 I felt here and within the small working group that Paco just went through support moving forward with that 3.9 and that's the sima class that capital bar really want and that's that twins city I got the right words here Paco help me in building coverage in building coverage there you go yes in building coverage that those are really solid and that's behind the 3.9 and the 3.9 is the beginning of a lot of needs but it's a real essential beginning and that assumes the city moving on their consoles and we can keep harping at that we're assuming the cities are going to follow through on their commitment of the consoles yes Doug Green um remember those words that you just said Donna because what we the Twin City group recommended to the CVPSA was that the cities step up and replace their consoles the cities the city councils have not agreed to do that I'm not aware of in Montpelier or in I can speak definitely for Barry the city council has not agreed to do that here yet that would be our recommendation to them and Steve's recommendation to them as well but they have not agreed to do that so I'd be very careful at our meeting um with both councils that that doesn't get said well we really appreciate the city stepping up to do the consoles our city hasn't stepped up to do it yet our recommendation is that they step up to do that but they have not agreed to do that nor have they come up with the money to do that uh well mom tell you want to step further I said put it in an FY22 budget and then remove it when we were short but it's there to be replaced I mean to be yes to find the money to do but so I'll work on the way to word that that we're looking and we're seeking the support of the cities moving forward on our consoles so just I'll put it in an affirmative desire how about that okay Donna may I make a suggestion yes I think these were basically well good discussions and I'm sure Brent will capture them in a minute but I think all of these discussions should be referred to the next step which comes after the city councils capital fire uh debate it next week but a lot of these issues need to be resolved at the working group level in terms of coming back with solid recommendations right now it's it seems to me to be almost a shotgun effect and yes yes no you're right and the focus with the councils are to get them to have a broad picture about specific needs yeah that that in uh uh empowering the coalition to move forward with planning yes yes okay well we'll keep working on it and everybody show up on Tuesday and Wednesday next week the other thing that was mentioned here that we didn't get to was we did get a letter and it was in draft form for a while uh from capital fire mutual aid that was sent out and just really Sally you may want to make a comment here just so appreciate it and how much it aligned with the Twin City teams letter that when I combined it to sort of restate for the two councils you know they were like four real solid things there that they both mutually stated as a priority focus to move on and that just dovetails with the whole building of the coalition not about public safety authorities about creating a coalition and getting the right people at the table and that's what we want the council to authorize getting the right people at the table in the working group any comments you'd like to make on the letter um no I I agree that I think capital fire is behind it I our biggest stumbling block is is going to be the the dollar amount and I'm not sure how we're going to get past that I look at the numbers that Paco sent out today and that's just I mean even for a department like ours that has a large budget that is a huge chunk of money and for a department that has a small small budget that is almost their whole budget so that's going to be the biggest stumbling block I think yes and that's why I think in asking for planning money this March we have to have money to get Paco out there facilitator with a select board so we as a board can go with them but we really need a point person to work continuously with the select to get them really involved so November is bringing all that to the forefront with some drafts for the annual meeting that would be December 9th along with budgets and that's the next item on the agenda uh I've already stated the date would be December 9th and November giving you drafts of elements so we can start working on it and the other question would be as far as any money for training at this point I hadn't considered money for training of dispatchers but we might want to maintain that or what do we need Joe do you think some maintenance training expenses will be coming up this next year now that we've gotten everybody certified actually and Barry we haven't good yeah help me there nobody only uh I think one or two maybe I've attended but I'm going to defer that to Carrie that's our expectees but I think in Montpellier everyone got certified didn't they Carrie so everybody did get certified who is currently employed since then we have hired um we had two vacancies one has been filled and she will ideally go through that probably at the beginning of the year um and then we will have one more vacancy and once that's filled we'd like to get them into it as well additionally we have hired a part-time employee um and keeping with trend we would like to have them all certified and so you're thinking to budget for the year what four people so we we have three um because we have we have three yeah and I give us a backup fourth we give us a backup yes okay I'll consider that when I do the budgeting Steve I'm sorry Joe Joe just so you know they they have hired two additional new dispatchers so I'm not sure to speak for Larry but I know he wanted to uh get them trained up and if you uh if you send an email to myself Larry and Chief Brent we can uh talk to him about that okay give me some estimates okay it just would help me to give numbers together then the board can look at those and you can decide which way to go great sure okay anything else on uh annual meeting that people have questions about or want to add to okay uh Kim asked to talk about the lehi e-mark earmark oh sorry um you were concerned you had conversations with Diane that reflected differently than my conversations with Anne and you sent out a memo and I did feel the memo was not appropriate and that we have to be careful not only and he said she said but the fact of open meeting law once we start sharing our opinion then it becomes a discussion and if one person makes a statement and nobody responds we haven't broken the open meeting law but it doesn't allow anyone else to have an opinion so expressed at the same level so it's better not to do that if indeed you have something like this you want to be put on the agenda then we'll do it and we'll distribute it through the board mailing and the board meeting in the future please so what would you like to say further about this that you haven't already got a chance to say in your memo I'd just like to add Donna that I don't think the open meeting law prevents individual board members from having conversations with each other and I think sometimes it's helpful to do that so that we don't step on anybody's toes that we know what what they're thinking and where it's going and I thought when Diane Derby looked deeper into this I was left with the impression that we would just reapply and there were some faults with our application what she said I think was a clear warning to all of us that if we're going to request money we got to have our act together and Paco said exactly this and you said the same thing tonight and we just need to work harder the next time around and really get things figured out and I think CVPSA if it's going to be a funding source has to show that it's a capable body that is supported locally and so that's all in the memo and I think it doesn't need a lot more discussion I think it's pretty clear where you've laid out an agenda though we gotta follow okay anyone else comments on the lady earmark all right I wanted to make sure that the committee's got an opportunity to give any feedback into the board as such I don't know that anyone Jim if you have anything to report or no report okay outreach Doug you talked a little bit about having a meeting with the small working group and you went to a meeting of a capital fire since our last meeting didn't you yeah I I did do that you know remotely it was good watching them work through their issues and head to what it is that you see that came to us in our written format so I think it's all a work in progress 19th and the 20th are going to be the potential watershed moments for us so I'm looking forward to that okay Grant website yeah so not a whole lot for me I I do want to figure out how we are going to forward and I'll work with you Dawn on trying to figure that out as to how we want our website to look what we exactly want to communicate on our website if we're looking at this is more of a coalition and we're looking at this as kind of a project kind of like a landing page I guess for for where the towns and where everybody can come to get information and I think that that's that's easy to do it just depends on what our what we want to market how we want to market ourselves in our organization but that's that's on my radar everything else yeah it'll it'll just depend on where things where things fall but that's where I'm at at this point well I appreciate you getting things posted the minutes the agendas thank you thank you very much and we'll keep working on it obviously a lot will the future of the coalition will give us directions yes any other business before it's this evening okay then we'll be adjourned at 7.53 wow we've ate a cock mark good thank you all it's been most helpful thank you thank you long recording stopped