 If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind pump, mind pump, with your hosts. Sal DeStefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. This was an interesting episode of Mind Pump. We actually went into it. We went left. We went into it. Then we went right. Expecting to do a Q&A episode, and the conversation got really good. And so we just stayed on that topic. We said, fuck you, bird, go away. Yeah, so, I mean, we start off bullshitting like we normally do. We talk about the movie Grease, which is an excellent cinematic. Hidden passion of mine. Beauty. Obviously. We talk about the best and worst actors, according to our opinion, which is, of course, accurate. How we listen to ourselves on Mind Pump, staying true to yourself. And then we get into education. We talk about the education system, how it is with our kids, what we think the future of education looks like. And we talk about our role in educating people in the fitness world. So this entire episode kind of focuses on that particular topic. It was totally unplanned. We have a good time when we do episodes like this. Very interesting. Love to hear your feedback on this episode and what your opinions are on it. I think education is a heated topic. It always is. It's dealing with our kids. And it's been politicized. It's ready to be disrupted. It's going to be whether we like it or not. Also, there's only two days left. Two days left for summer starter pack. This is something we put together for all of our new listeners. It includes everything you need to get started in fitness. It includes MAPS anabolic, which is our foundational program. MAPS Prime, which is gonna help you correct muscle and balances and develop better recruitment patterns. It also includes a nutritional component. There's a nutrition guide and fasting guide in there. And then it includes access to our forum so that we can watch you and help you along the way, as well as our large mind pump community that's on that forum. We've taken all those things individually, put them together in this pack and cut the price more, more than half. So it's a huge discount. You can find the summer starter pack at mindpumpmedia.com. Summer days. Oh man, oh man. Drippin' away, I just got my MAPS anabolic. Is there more, is there more, is there MAPS Prime? Is there more, is there more? Can I get it on a dime? No, it's more expensive than that. That was the most effective commercial we've ever done. It might have been the best commercial we've ever done for sure. It was for sure. I can't believe you. I put my hands on this. I'm a little worried that you know that that well. The grease, you never watched grease? Well, I have, but not enough to be able to sing the jingle. Oh my God. Grease is great. That's like, eh. First of all, just playing that over the loudspeaker, all of a sudden like every lady in America will just stop. First of all, what they're doing, they'll start singing. Let me explain to you my connection to grease. Mm. As a young man growing up in San Jose, the product of Sicilian immigrants, it was hard for me to fit in with any crowd because I wasn't really white. Like I'm kind of like, my skin tone is like tan. And I'm not really, I'm not Hispanic and you know, there's a lot of Hispanics in San Jose. And so I didn't really fit in. I didn't really know what my identity was. And then I discovered John Travolta. In... Good old John Travolta. In grease and in Saturday Night Fever. And I'm like, that's me right there. That's who I want to be. I connected more to him in Face Off. What? Yeah. It's more, that's my, that's more my Travolta. Isn't that what's his name in that too? Nicholas Cage. Nicholas Cage. God damn it. Great classic. If you know Nicholas Cage is... He's such a great actor. Just one of the best actors of all time. Him and Canary. Him and Canary. Amazing. Brilliant actor. Canary. Yeah. No, you know what? He's a great character. Dude, Nicholas Cage is better than Canary's. Yes. Here's why. I used to watch a movie with Brad Pitt and I was like, wow, this is the worst acting I've ever seen. No, no, no, Brad Pitt. No, no, no, no. He, like, if you're watching it, like, he does not know how to show any emotion. Haven't you? Ever. Have you seen the movie Seven? Yeah. Oh, you're not a Brad Pitt fan? No. I was. I got to disagree with you. Or Fight Club. Fight Club, he was brilliant. Here is what, here is the... The latest movie he did. Okay, I'm gonna argue this all day. Okay. It was with, we're basically his wife was a spy, a German spy. Oh, I saw that movie. Yeah. What did you think of his acting performance? Okay, that was not... Super flat and horrible. Well, yeah, but I also think that, I also thought that was kind of his character in that. Here's, to me, this is the game. Keanu Reeves' character. Keanu Reeves' character. To not have any emotion? Keanu Reeves is... The same guy. Is the surfer guy from Point Break in every movie. Every movie. No, no, no, you got it wrong. Or Bill and Ted's excellent actor. Whichever one you want to refer to. But he's the same, he is the same guy. Neil, you live in the movies. He's reliable. You're like, you know what I mean, like... He is a surfer. He just learns more ninja moves. Dude, in every movie. Now, that being said... John Wick, too, is amazing. That being said, he is... Could anybody have played Neo in The Matrix better? No. No, it fit that role perfectly. So, I don't think he necessarily is a good actor. I just think they finally found a role for him where his same character worked out really well. That's how that... I think that's how it works or something like that. But Brad Pitt, bro. Brad Pitt's all over the spectrum, bro. See, I liked him before that movie. Brad Pitt, are you a fight club? And like, are you kidding me with Snatch? Yeah, I liked the fight club. Snatch was like one of the fucking... And Norton carried that movie, though. Yeah, you could argue that. He was good in Troy. Yeah, he was. He played a good Achilles. Yeah, I don't know. I guess maybe it's performance by performance, you know? Okay, how about this? Here's a better one. Who's a great... Who do you guys think is like a fucking great actor? Like, just for pure acting chops. Kevin Spacey. Ooh, look at you. We both could. Kevin Spacey, we just love Kevin Spacey. I think he's good, but I don't think... I like Ed Norton, too. I don't think... Ed Norton has got to be one of the best, but I think Daniel Day-Lewis. Fucking shits on everybody. Well, yeah, because he's like crazy. He could play anything and be very convincing. Johnny Depp comes in there, too. Who? Johnny Depp. As a great actor? Yes, dude. Oh, my God, yes. I think he's good, but I don't think he's great. You got to think of the roles that some of these characters play. But he's always... A typecast, though, you know? He's always doing the same kind of guy. He's also crazy. He does weird... He does weird... Like, people that go all over... He's a weird guy. Like, if you play a good guy, a bad guy, a scary guy, a crazy guy... Oh, here's one. We can't not for, say, fucking, what's his face from Batman? Oh, yeah, Christian Bale. Yeah, Christian Bale. He's amazing. Talk about, like, and look at, like, what they do to their body, what they do with their whole machinist. Yes, they're... Oh, yeah, yeah, Christian Bale's okay. When you see actors go on all ends of the spectrum, that, to me, is what is your gauge of how tall they are. Like, a movie like... Like you said, Matrix, one of the greatest movies ever and Keanu Reeves is the main actor. But that movie was epic and that role fit his character already, where you take someone like Christian Bale and you look at all the different types from superheroes to crazy killers to, like... Yeah, that has to be a factor. Right, you, like, what are... The diversity. Yeah, and that's why I was defending Brad Pitt, because if you look at all the different movies that he's played in, he's done a different role many times. He can do the romance, he can do the action, he could be the tough guy, he could be the crazy guy. He's kind of played all... Yeah, I just haven't seen him, like, really with any emotion. Other movie that really pissed me off that he was in... He was in this cartoon. Oh, it was so bad, dude. He cannot, like... Who? How can you not act well in a cartoon that you're a voice over? His voice is bad. God, it was horrible. Megamind. Megamind. Oh, I never saw that. Watch Megamind and tell me like his character is in dog shit. He's right. You know who else is good? That's just underrated, but I think he's an excellent, excellent actor. Leonardo DiCaprio. Excellent actor. Yeah, he's excellent actor. You know what? I only didn't like him. I didn't like him because he was fucking the Titanic guy, right? So I did like... It took a lot of the warm-up. It did. So he had to play some other roles for me before I became a fan. But he's got... Remember The Beach? Yeah. He got all crazy of that movie. So, and that's a good example, right? He's another Gilbert Grape. Yeah. Great movie, right? All over the spectrum, right? So I think that's another good example, for sure. But yeah, I think... I like the thing of the worst. I think Keanu Reeves is up there with, like, worst. I have a soft spot for Keanya. For who? For Keanya. Oh, I thought you were talking about the singer, Keanya. I was like, what? Keanya. That's what his close friends call him. Keanya. K-Dog. Dude, I can't look at you straight new with the frickin' deck-taped headphones. I tell you right now... You're like the juggernaut. I can hear you guys on another level. So I feel... I swear to God, this is weird for me. Like, I feel like at some point it's gonna happen, right? At some point I'm gonna be wrong and you guys are gonna be right. It hasn't happened yet, but like, it keeps happening where you guys make fun of me for something and then I end up... It's almost like the universe is either on my side or it's just trying to fuck with you guys and make you guys stronger. You know what I'm saying? Yeah. Because you guys keep doing that. I feel like we're on point all the time. I don't know, dude. I don't know. I think I'm being adamant on something. I don't know. There's a lot of instances. I think you only listen and play the episodes where you are right. No, it's not about the episodes. You're like, confirmation bias. I think whatever Justin and I talk, you just fast forward. You just listen. You're like, yeah. You just talk. I was right there. Let me get to this right there. I was right there. Let me get to my point real quick that I make. It's for sure what I do. I have a bit of it. These guys? Yeah, I just listen to the parts where I talk so an hour episode ends up becoming like 50 minutes. How are you on your mind pump game right now? I'm actually... What do you mean? Your mind pump game. Like, I haven't listened to our own episodes in a very long time. This is the longest I've gone without listening to our own. Here's what I'm guilty of. I'm guilty of listening to the beginning of our episodes where we don't talk about fitness. Yes. And then when we get into fitness, I don't listen. Well, that makes a lot of sense when you think about it because that's for ourselves. It's probably the most entertaining part. If I'm going to listen to anything, it's going to be Justin and you making jokes or jabbing all of us at each other, right? Versus, I already know all of your theories on health and fitness. I already know exactly what's in your head as far as your philosophy and what you're going to say and what studies you're going to recite. It's like on autopilots on my head. Yeah, it's the off-the-wall stuff where you sharing a story about your kids or going into topics like that that interests me more than you. So I'll tell you something that I've noticed about myself because I'm very critical when I listen to myself on the show. And I have a tendency to do this where, and you guys are going to be like, no shit, I get passionate about something. I get so fucking passionate that the way I speak and come across is like, this is the truth, like nothing else. And I hear myself sometimes like, oh, I come across a little too... Well, that's why we make a great balance. Because I feel like softening that up. And sometimes I have to take the bullet and be wrong just so I can challenge your certainties. So because somebody has to keep you in check with your fucking, I'm so sure about all this. Yeah, I get too passionate maybe. Maybe that's what it is. What would you guys say your weaknesses are? Making up words. Yeah. You have a weakness in making up words? Well, that's a strength of mine. It's a strength that I make up. Turn it into a strength, yeah. Yeah, I turned a weakness into a strength. No, for reals. I don't have any, yeah. Really? No, of course I do. Well, lately I feel like I have been ruffling a lot of feathers. And I don't know what that is. I don't know if I'm extra rumbunctious. Is that a word? Rumbunctious. Rumbunctious. I like rumbunctious. That's when you drink rum and you get a little... Sponsored by Captain Morgan. It's rumbunctious time. No, lately some of the stuff that we've been talking about, we've been touching the third rail a lot lately. We've been fucking it, like I got on top of it. I've been sliding on top of it, yeah. Well, at the end of the day, I think there's certain people that feel like that we have to speak a certain way. And I'm like, no, fuck that. Like this is my show or our show. I'm gonna fucking say whatever I want to say. And I'm sure it's gonna offend some people, but I care more about being true to myself than I care about what people think. To me, that's a better representation of integrity. And I believe that there's not enough of that in the world. And I feel like even myself, I feel we all are influenced by others so much that everybody struggles. And I don't want, just because I'm on a platform where tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of people are listening to us that it's gonna sway how I think or how I talk. Like I'm sorry, but I'm gonna share my opinion on things and I'm sure there's gonna be a lot of people that disagree and are offended by it. But hey, it's me and I care more about being me than I care about appeasing everybody and giving you what you wanna hear. You know, it's gonna change a lot of things is when people's internet searches become public because they will. At some point, people's internet searches and what they look at will be accessible somehow to everyone else. And then when everybody sees how fucked up everybody is, then everyone's gonna be cool. You know what I'm saying? Like when you can look at that preacher over there and you look at his internet porn searches and you're like, yeah, right, dude. I see what you look at on the internet or what people, then you'll start to see people start to chill out, you know what I'm saying? Oh dude, come on, bro. I mean, it's, you know, I'll tell you what right now. I think you identify a lot with that because you are, that's a lot of you, right? Like you definitely, if you go through, this is true too. Like if you literally, like, I would not be afraid. I don't delete my history on my computer. You could go through and see my searches. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't think you would find anything weird. But what I mean is like, if everybody listening right now, I guarantee you can relate to this. At some point you have conversations with people or a text thread with friends or something that if it went public, you would be judged very, very harshly. Oh, okay. Everybody, everybody does that, you know what I'm saying? So when we walk around and pretend like- So once all your dirt is out there, everybody's gonna chill out. Everyone's dirt is gonna be out there, then everyone's gonna be like, well, I guess we just solved it. I guess that feeds into my opinion, right? That I feel like I care more about being true to myself because I feel like I can sleep at night. I'm comfortable, right? Like no one's gonna find something out about me and be like, oh, I can't, Adam's totally like this guy. What he said- It's so much better to be that. Right, like, okay, you may think I'm an asshole, but when you meet me, you know, you might actually find out that I'm a lot nicer of a guy. You're like, at least he- Well, you also do the strategy where you, it's very effective. I've actually witnessed it firsthand. Where people are like, oh man, I'm gonna meet that asshole, Adam. And then you're not that much of an asshole. And so because they expected you to be one, they're like, he's really nice. I'm not an asshole. It's a very- It's a very smart strategy. What I am is I'm very blunt and candid. I think that I speak my mind and a lot of times it's not what somebody wants to hear. You know why I'm laughing right now? Because it's genetic. After meeting your uncle in here, oh my God. After meeting your uncle, I'm like, wow, it's totally genetic. It's in the genes. It's in the genes. He's a great guy. He's a great guy, but super no filter. And the irony is- You guys are just exactly the same. Well, the irony in that is, and this is the whole nature versus nurture argument, right? Is I mean, I had no real connection to him as a child. Like we didn't get connected until I was older. Like my mom and him don't really speak. And so I started to seek out my family as I got into my 20s because I got older. And you know, there's a certain point. I think every young man or young woman go where they realize at least someone that's grew up like me where it was very disconnected from his family where you're used to that and that's comfortable and normal for you. It's not a big deal. But then you start to wonder like, oh, what would that been like? Had I been connected to all my family members and how much are we alike each other and what can I learn from them? And so I started to seek out all of my family members. And it's one of the things that I do really enjoy about social media platforms like Facebook and Instagram, the ability to connect to people like that. It allowed me to connect to a side of my family that I was disconnected. And my uncle and I, we really didn't get connected together. They had a little bit of connection with me as a child but none of them had real memories. Dude, he cracks me up, dude, your uncle and he doesn't give a shit. And I love that. I love that about him. It's hilarious. And he's a good guy too. He's a good guy, so it's not bad. But I constantly, constantly, always, as long as I can remember is the minute I was talking, I was getting in trouble for having a big mouth. Always, always, always, always, for me. It was different. It was more of, you know, when I would joke around and I would like disrupt the class, like I was constantly like class clowning, like trying to like get people's attention from that, you know, from that way. And obviously you kind of see a little bit of that on the show, but like that was something that always got me in trouble. I would like get sent out of class one time, like me and my friend both, like as we just had this thing where we would just, I mean, we get bored. Like my problem is I get bored. I check myself on this all the time because it's like if we're talking about the same stuff that I know is helping people, I'm gonna get really bored because we've talked about it to death. And you know. You make an inappropriate joke. Yeah, and so I just kind of interrupt it and be like, you know, make it somewhat entertaining for myself. But yeah, I used to get sent out of class all the time and I would have to sit out on this bench and you know, that was the only way I got in trouble. See, I was the kid that, and my son's the same way, dude, and it cracks me up. I'll get these report cards and Oral go meet with the teacher. And the teacher will say something like, okay, so I met up with the teacher a little while ago and it was like for an open house or whatever. And she goes, yeah, she goes, so, you know, obviously I'm human and sometimes I'll make a mistake on the board or something. She goes, but can you please have a talk with your son because then he corrects me in a very condescending way in front of the classroom. And I'm just like, oh. Because that was me, dude. I would do that. I would raise my hand and I would debate the teacher all the time, all the time. And I'd piss everybody off all the time. And sometimes I won, not often, because usually I was wrong because I was a kid, but sometimes I'd make a really good point and then you'd see them get really frustrated and angry and I'd get in trouble for it. Did your parents, did you guys' parents keep a lot of your schoolwork and papers and things you wrote from when you were a child? Yeah. Have you been through it in a long time? Yep, yep, I looked through it. It's hilarious. I looked through it not that long ago and in elementary school it all said, it was all similar. It was all very bright, very intelligent, daydreams a lot, talks too much, could put more effort. So it was like, I mean it's 100%, I was aware of it. Like I'd show up to class, I'd be super bored, not stimulated. And I used to, literally the teacher would be, especially in junior high, right? Junior high was just, I went to a shit junior high and most of my teachers were garbage. And they were, they were fucking garbage. Like history class, what was his name? What was his name? Mr. Sweeney. You're gonna railroad it too, huh? Yeah, you sucked, Mr. Sweeney. You fucking idiot. He would literally had, he had a projector and he would put like the slides on the projector and it was the pages from the textbook. So all he would do is read the textbook. Like verbatim? Yeah, like here's the test in this part, take it, turn it in. That was it every day. So I would sit in class and I didn't mind reading it. He had his tenure. Yeah, he was shit. And I loved history anyway. So all I would do is sit in class and read the history book. So I'd be, I'd finished the history book, two months into school and we're still on the first part of it or whatever. And so I'd ask him for more books and then he'd get mad at me and he'd be like, you didn't read it and he'd try and quiz me and I'd get it right. And then he'd get even more angry and he was just, and I remember telling him, I literally told my teacher that he was wasting our time. I said this in the class. Oh my God, how old were you at this time? I was in seventh grade. So I rose my, I raised my, no, I didn't raise my hand. I was reading the book because I was reading ahead because I was super bored. And this is when I discovered that I really liked history was in seventh grade. So I'm just reading ahead and I'm reading about ancient history and then American history. I'm having a great time. And he called on me in class and so caught me off guard. So I said, I didn't hear the question. He's like, you're not paying attention, blah, blah, blah and he's getting on my case. And I'm like, just ask me the question again because I didn't hear it all the way. And so he asked me the question and I knew the right answer. And, you know, the class kind of laughed because I knew the answer. So he turns around to go back to his work and I said, excuse me, can I say something? And he turns around and he says, you know, what? What would you like to waste our time or something like that? He's like real snarky. And so I said, all you do is you sit up there and you read the textbook. Oh my God, you called him out like that? I said that we can do on our own. I said, and I said, if this was a school that my parents were paying for, it'd be very, you know, where I could leave, you wouldn't be a teacher. You're wasting everybody's time. I said, why are you wasting your time? Why are you doing this? And I got ripped. I got hammered for that, I got big trouble. But it was true. It was so fucking true. And that's my story. That's my life story. As I've always had a big mouth and gotten in trouble for calling people out. It's funny that my mom just moved, right? So she literally just moved into a new place. And so she was sending me pictures of like old essays and stuff that I had wrote. And I, God, I haven't, it's crazy how much I forgot. You know, like I just don't remember. She sent me over some paper that I wrote on the future on what I saw in my own future. No way, what did I say? No, it's pretty, it's pretty crazy. I'll send it over to you guys. Is it accurate? Yeah, it's pretty accurate. It's accurate as far as my values, right? Like the things that I value, I value that even young. You know, like even when I was a young child, you could see in my writing, you could see my ambition well before any sort of real job. I mean, it was, I think it was 13 or 14 in this essay that I read. So, and the exact same way too, like, you know, all the grammar's fucked up, but if you get the point across, it's like, you know, it's like, Not much has changed yet. Not much has changed. But, you know, it was well written as far as the point that I was making, right? But for sure, grammatically. Did you guys daydream a lot? Oh, so we're all alike. I didn't ever challenge my teachers to that point, which you just, that's why I was fascinated to hear that story. But like Justin, I was always a class clown, so I was always goofing off. I skated through school with a 3.0 plus GPA, but never applying myself. I, in fact, I remember in high school, it became, what I actually used to get off on was how much I could not pay attention, fuck around in school and still pass all the tests and do good enough, right? That's so funny. I didn't say anything. Right, so I had like that one. You know what's funny about that trait? That's actually the trait, that's a common trait amongst entrepreneurs is figuring out- You hack the system. Well, what you're doing is you're actually prioritizing your time. And you're like, well, if I can dedicate this little time and get the desired outcome, which is at this grade, then I can spend time doing these other things. Like playing basketball. It's efficient. My whole game in my head was to figure the teacher out and their patterns. So I would just like pay attention to like what kind of homework they would give, what kind of questions they would ask. And then like when it came to test time, like you literally knew like, oh, she's trying to trick me here. And then I would pick, you know, accordingly. And I would, every time I would get it right. Once I figured out their pattern, sometimes it would take me like to the end of the semester to figure them out. I had a teacher figure me out really well. And she was very effective with this one thing that she did. And so it was my, I think it was my journalism class. I was actually in journalism. I wrote some really good articles, by the way. Not good. I shouldn't say good, but really hilarious articles. Like one of them was like, what's the most effective martial art? Like I wrote this opinion piece, obviously. So it was great. But she, I would piss her off all the time because I would talk back or I would debate or I would question things. And she figured me out about halfway through the school year. She took me outside. She actually stopped the class. And I forgot what it was. I must have said something that pissed her off. So she's stopped the whole class. And she says, Sal, come with me outside. I need to have a talk with you. And the classroom is like, ooh. So I go outside with her. I can't remember her name. I'll remember her name later. But anyway, she takes me outside and she goes, and she was very, this was very clever. She said, Sal, she goes, the entire classroom follows what you do. And they listen to what you say. And I need your help because a lot of these kids need help in this class. And she put it on me like that. And from that day, knowing when she said that, first of all, she said- She empowered you, bro. She empowered me and she made me believe- Smart leader. And whether this was true or not, that these kids, you know, they follow me. And it's not just me that I'm fucking with, it's them. So from the rest of the school year, man, I was like, quiet. I did what she said. I was very obedient. And I remember that. Like that was a very smart strategy. Well, talk about a very powerful, powerful moment in your life too. Would you say that was, because you gotta, even though we all probably have a bad taste in our mouth for public schools or schools in general, do you have a teacher that impact you positively that you say like, okay, that was a solid teacher or that is something that has shaped and formed my character? So I had, yeah, I can remember, there was a few of them and that's why I remember them so well, but I had a psychology class that I took and the instructor encouraged debate and discussion. You guys got psychology in high school? I think it was an elective. Oh fuck, we didn't get that till college. And he encouraged debate discourse. He would come up with a subject and have us debate them. And then he would, first he would ask us our opinion on the subject and then he asked us to debate the opposite, which was brilliant for him to do. Like I have to debate the opposite side of what I believe. And I found myself just fascinated by this particular class and really enjoying the discussions that we had and the open environment. And so he was pretty impactful. There was a teacher in elementary school that I really enjoyed because she also figured me out and would say these, like the teacher I just talked about, she would say certain things to me like that that would really empower me. And so that had a big impact on me. But for the most part, it was so unmemorable that I couldn't tell you five teacher's names. I'm the same way. I literally can, I can only actually think of one teacher that really impacted me like that. And it was my sophomore year. She was my English teacher, ironically, right? And she actually came up to me and almost that identical conversation. So it's really crazy. It's so funny how many parallels you and I have. It trips me out when I hear stories that you talk about and I'm like, God damn, that we couldn't be more like on some things. This teacher, so it was my English class. Again, I think I was only getting like a B in the class. But I goofed off. I was the class clown, like definitely was the leader of the group. And I could make everybody distracted. I could get everybody into the, whatever the subject was that we were learning about. And she recognized that and she had conversations with me afterwards of making me feel like everybody looked up to me. And I remember feeling that way. And then she also went on to say that I think that you should take advanced English. And I remember being like, are you kidding me? Like I have a hard time putting two sentences together, right? Like grammatically, I knew I wasn't good. Like my papers always, my papers always came back like chalked up like fucking red marks all over the place, right? So I didn't think that I was really good, but she- Because you equated grammar with writing. Exactly. Not the actual content. And she is the one that built my confidence in the ability to write still and to not allow the grammatical part to hold me back she thought my ability to speak my mind and express myself was very unique. And she made me feel unique about that. And she empowered that at me. And then she, and then from then on in school, so the last two years of high school, I was in advanced English. And it was her who made me, who built that confidence and to not allow those minor details to, you know, she's like, these are things that you can work on, putting a comma here, capitalizing that, run on sentences, basic shit like that. She's like, but your ability to put your thoughts in your mind on a piece of paper was very, very unique. And so she made me feel that way and empowered that. And a subject that I was not drawn to or didn't like was something that I later on fell in love with. And I still do. I enjoy all the way up into adulthood and working for companies. I used to, I used to write people's emails to their superiors and then I would have somebody go over and grammatically come back and clean up. Still very similar stuff that I do this day. Like if there's something that, when I, if I have a thought or I have something, I can express it really well as far as how I organize it is not a very, very, very good at all. But that was probably the only real teacher that like I miss Goebel. I remember her name. I can't remember probably any other teacher's name going through high school. And then the only two subjects that really appealed to me in college was psychology was, that was my first experience in psychology was freshman year of college. And man, I love that. I love, that would became, that why I became very passionate about that. And then later on went on to read on my own. And then what other subject did I really like back? You know, I didn't have anything else that I remember. I remember a lot of stuff I did not like like I hated history. So I was not into history at all. Math I loved. I liked math too. So math, probably like statistics and getting into like analytics, stuff like that stuff that is obvious. That's the part of the business that I enjoy with what we currently do now. And psychology, like those were subjects. Oh, and art history. I should take that. That was a subject that I would have never thought I liked in college. It took an art history class and fell in love with that. Yeah, I think if we empowered kids a little bit more, it would be so effective. I mean, can you think of, I can't think of, in terms of potential influence on our children, I can't think of anyone, aside from their parents, teachers. I can't think of anyone more. Teachers and coaches. Yeah, I mean. Coaches for those that play sports. There's a lot of potential for influence there. And it's incredible how little value we place on those two positions because they can really shape and mold the direction of, I know people who went to school. I had a client who very advanced degree, super intelligent guy. He actually runs a very large tech company. So I can't say his name or the company because people will know who he is right away. But let's just say he's a big mover and a big player. And he thought that he was, first of all, he hated school growing up and thought he was not smart. Until he met a teacher that, like you said with the English teacher, kind of explained to him that he just thought differently. And to look at things differently, ended up going to college and this guy graduated MIT, got into MIT and graduated and was just top of his class. Thought he was stupid. That's what it takes. I mean, like, unfortunately, most teachers, like they just want to kind of show up and then want to be there and then want to kind of run through the curriculum. But if they really took the time to connect, you know, with these students, like it took a long time for me to connect with the teachers. So you guys are mentioning specific people. And I really can't attribute any kind of influence any of these teachers had on me as far as like going up through high school and like, you know, elementary and all that. Even in college for you? It took till college. And I didn't really, really find my passion. Like I was good at like the sciences. Like that was like a little bit of my passion was the sciences. I hated math and I was good at English. And I had some teachers try and steer me in English just like you, to some degree. But it took till college where I finally like connected with this teacher who let me run a lab, a biomechanics lab. And I went through, I think it was Ergogenic AIDS was the course, but I was actually able to take all the students on campus and I ran them through all these different tests. And then I got really fascinated with all the variances between everybody and then started charting all this stuff for him and then giving him all the feedback. And he was like, wow, you went to such great detail with this and he like really like pumped me up about it and was like, you know, you're, I could tell your passion about this. And that didn't even resonate with me until like later on I was like, wow, I've been doing all these. Like I work out and this is part of like, you know, I got a scholarship to play football and like, you know, half of my time was split. That was a job in itself. And then trying to cram all the studying at the same time. And, you know, I was really driven by anatomy and like the human body and like just how sophisticated and how intricate all these things are. And so that's, it really took a while, man. It took a while for me to connect and find my own way with it. So, yeah. Yeah, I mean, two things come to mind when we talk about this particular subject. You know, we're talking a lot about teachers. Are you gonna touch the third rail right now? No, I'm not. I'm done doing that. We're on a roll right now. Are you gonna go where I think you're going? I don't think this is a third rail, but you know, a lot of, because more than half of my family are teachers. My mom's a teacher. My sister's a teacher. My late ex-mother-in-law, she was a teacher. My aunt's teachers. And teachers are really hamstrung by the system. They're, you know, teaching children, if you have kids or you've ever been in education or you've ever taught kids or any of that stuff, you know how individual education is. Like all kids learn differently, different areas are different. There's different circumstances. Like when I'm coaching clients or when I'm teaching a class myself, I know that I have to follow the students that I have in front of me. I know that. I can't teach everybody the same because it's just not effective. And this is true for parenting as well. If you have three kids, each one of them, you may have to be a little bit different for each one of them in certain respects because one may be motivated one way and one may be motivated another way. And you know, it's just, you know, one kid may put a lot of pressure on themselves. So putting more pressure on them just makes them, you know, crack, whereas another kid maybe needs a little bit of pressure. So I think teachers are hamstrung because they're, they're, they have to follow certain criteria. They can't do certain things. They don't have flexibility to do certain things. And that hurts their ability to do their job because teachers, the ones that I know at least and go into it because they really have a passion for working with kids. And I just think staying in the system for years kills it and a lot of people because you're so, you're so stuck. Like, no, you've got to teach to this test. You have to do this particular standard. This is the system. And that's it. Where I trust the teacher way more than I trust some centralized, you know, program that goes out from, you know, Washington or something. I trust the teacher because the teacher's in the God and they're in the classroom, you know? So that's, you know, really the first thing. Second thing is there's this, and there's been this now for a generation at least, this mischaracterization of what self-esteem really means. We've been taught to pump up our kids with self-esteem by telling them they're awesome all the time, but that's not how you build self-esteem. Real self-esteem is built from encountering a challenge, a difficult challenge, and then figuring out a way to overcome it. You humble by it and overcoming it. Then you build self-esteem. Like, if I was, you know, if I am just super wealthy all the time and everybody gives everything to me all the time, I might have this false sense of self-esteem, but when I encounter in real life my first real problem and my entire life, I've never really encountered a challenge that I failed at, that's not gonna, I'm not gonna succeed. Whereas if my life has been a string of challenges and overcoming them and challenges overcoming them, now when I encounter a challenge, I am confident that I am going to come out of this either succeeding or learning. And I think that's a big problem. I think children need to be allowed, like we need to let them fail sometimes and then sit down with them and work through that and show them how they can work through it or how they can learn from it. And that's, I think, a big problem in our current education system. We're afraid to let kids like have these challenges. Like you can't even, you know, certain games aren't allowed in school because there's winners and losers or we have to kind of be careful with how we, like it's okay to tell a kid, like, look, man, this project you just, you didn't- You lost, bro, you suck. You didn't do well and it's because you didn't put any effort or you did put a lot of effort, but I think maybe this is something that's a little more challenging for you. So what are you gonna do? Are you gonna work harder? Or are you gonna give up? Or look at this other subject that you seem to enjoy. You know, even when you praise kids, it's even when you give kids praise, one of the worst things you can do, like if your kid comes home with a good grade, like I got an A plus on my math test. Don't tell your kid how smart they are. And I know that sounds crazy, but when you tell your kid like, oh, you got an A plus, you're such a smart kid, you are going to reinforce this identity in them that they're the smart kid, that they'll never do bad at anything. So when they do encounter something where they're not, it doesn't come easy to them. They're afraid to even try it. They don't wanna shatter this image of them being the smart kid. Instead, what you should do is, oh, you got an A on this test. It looks like you worked really hard. I was gonna say, I would even go further and instead of telling them anything, I'd be asking, like, how do you think you got that? Like, why do you think you got it? That's great, yeah. You know, and get them thinking to help them connect the dots on, and then to reconfirm that after they tell you, right? Like, oh, you know, I studied really hard, Dad, or I did this, or I, you know, made sure I got all my homework assignments in, or, you know, I did this, I went extra mile in helping them connect those dots, and then going back and saying, yes, and see what happens when you do those little things, and this is how you, you know, what happens when you do that, right? Yeah, my kid did a report on, it was a country report, and he had to pick a country, he picked Japan, and there were two parts to it. There was a written part, and then there was a oral part, and he scored like the top grade that he could get for the oral part, and for the written part, he got like a B, a passing B, and the comments were you could have put more effort into this part, and so when I saw this, I asked him, he goes, oh, I got an A here, and I got to be here, and I said, which one did you like more? He goes, well, I love the oral part, and I said, well, do you think that reflects in your grade, and he goes, yeah, and I said, why? He goes, well, I liked it, so I spent a lot of time on it, and I said, well, that's, I said, that's just it, what you spend more time at is what you're gonna do better at, and so I was truly trying to reinforce that, you know, with him instead of saying like, you know, you're so smart or whatever, you know, just, you know, kind of helping him connect the dots that, you know, you enjoyed it, that's why you worked harder at it, and that's why you got a better result, and if you want better results, then you're gonna have to apply yourself a little bit more, and if you don't apply yourself, then don't be upset or shocked at when you get a bad result, because that's just a reflection of the effort. Well, at the end of the day too, it's setting them up for reality, right? Like this whole, and I don't know when it started, like it feels like it's been in the last 10 years or whatever when we went on this, like everybody gets a ribbon, everybody gets a trophy, like tell everybody how great they are, no matter what. It's like, well, why would we do that to them as kids when real life ain't like that? Like, I didn't get, you don't go out and- You get evaluated at your job. This is a reality that we all face. I mean, it's, if you do shit work, like it's not gonna fly, like you're gonna get fired. And more often than not, you do a lot of hard work, you do a lot of good stuff, and it doesn't get recognized, and you don't- Exactly, you don't get praised. And you don't get praised, and you don't get the raise, and you don't win, and sometimes you even still get fired. Like, how does that kid handle that situation when he's been being told his whole life how fucking great he is and how good at everything he is the first time that he does all the things he thinks- Think about how extreme that is for entrepreneurs. Like you're out there by yourself, you fail, it's all on you. Like there's nobody you can even blame it on, but yourself. And what a hard decision to make, like, oh, I'm gonna put myself all the way out there. And when I fail, it's very obvious why. Absolutely, I think teaching kids that it's a game of odds and numbers, you're going to try a lot, work hard, many, many times you're gonna fail, but your odds of succeeding are much higher when you apply yourself. It's not a guarantee, but it definitely increases your odds and that you control a lot more than you think, but there are things you can't control and things you can't control, don't worry about. I just thought of a, you were talking about your kid applying himself and really enjoying it and being the oral part of it. So I just remembered another class that I actually did enjoy in college, which was speech. And I don't know if I shared this story on Mind Pump before, but I remember writing a speech. At that time, I was working at the dairy, right? So it was a bovine mammary extraction technician. And- Such a great title. Right, I love to throw that around. Like it was really important. I made a whole $5 an hour or whatever. Squeezing their mothers, baby. So we had these, you put the machine on the cows, right? To milk them. And the inside of the machine are these rubber inserts and they look spot on to like a dildo. I mean, they're all, they're rubbery, they're ribbed, they're shaped kind of weird. Like they totally look like this sexual toy, right? And I know that like, most people are probably not, we grew up in somewhat of a farm town area, but I'm in the college, which is another hour outside of there. So it's not, we're in the city. So I know a lot of people probably have never even seen this tool before. And I have to give a speech and I believe it was a descriptive speech. And most people, what they would do is like, someone like brought like a painting of, you know, that was passed down their family and they described the whole painting or someone brought like some trophy and described it like the story behind all of it. And so I decided to bring this up and I set the big rubber dildo looking thing up on the front. And right away- Everybody's like, oh, shit. Yeah, right away the class is like, you know, chattering back and forth. And instead of telling everybody what the thing was, I chose to describe what it's used for and how you get ready to use it with lubricant and everything before you put it on the cow. And like, so I did this whole descriptive speech on this tool and I told the speech in reverse by describing everything it's used for, can be used for. And then at the very end, I told the whole class was just like roaring the whole time. Oh yeah, I had to stop so many times to like, and you could see like the look on the teacher's face the whole time I was telling, of course I hit it out the park once they finally figured out what it was because it was so creative. But I did really enjoy it. That kind of reminds me. Brilliant. This is an art class though. Like I did actually really well in art and it's nothing that I really like, I only took like maybe two classes and I fucking loved it, but I never like took more. But this teacher had an assignment that she sent out to everybody. You had to incorporate like three different things. And you had to do it in a way where it all flowed together. And so everybody's kind of creating like a background is part of like the one idea. There's something in that background and they're just trying to tie all these different things together. Well, I'm trying to remember specifically I had like an owl and I had like some kind of a girl and then outer space. And so I incorporated all these different like concepts together. Sounds like a sci-fi dream. Yeah, so I drew this. Okay, I'm trying to remember this but it was like a moon. And on top of the moon, I had this owl and the owl like had eyes but the eyes were like breasts. And then no, it was a VW bug and that was the other one. So there's a VW bug so I had the VW like things in its eyes. Anyways, I pulled it all together and it was like so obvious, you know? And the teacher loved it. She was like, whoa, like this is so, you know, like creative. What about a class that you guys fucking did terrible in or a class and that you just, you hated and had a right away math for you? Hated math. You know why I hated math? College algebra. Because math required me to do homework every day. And I was the king of getting by and passing all my classes without ever doing homework. So now my grade is heavily dependent on me actually doing homework. Good point. And I was just fucking. So I shut it off. Yeah, math was a subject that like, you know what I fucking failed at and did really, I didn't really fail. I think I got a C minus in the class which was one of the lowest grades I got. And I believe I even had a D at one point in this class was chemistry. Chemistry, which is funny because we're in science so you would think that I would enjoy it. And I like math and it's like science meets math is what chemistry really is. But I could not. I love chemistry. And I looking back now as an adult and I'm trying to like, like, what was it about that class that I just could not, you know, why a subject that I feel like I'm more interested now in as an adult. Like I feel like I would be intrigued. I remember like, like there are a lot of growing marijuana which I've done. It's chemistry. Yeah, it's chemistry. And I just loved it as an adult when I dove into it and I had to learn all that I was. Maybe because when they were teaching though, like the whole like had a, had a combined. Is the teacher man? Cause I had, I had a teacher that would let us blow shit up and, and, you know, we would, we would like fill these balloons with gas and then like line them on fire. And, you know, we'd create all these crazy reactions with water and it was just like exciting. Cause you just started to see like how you could combine all these elements together and like things would happen. And so I just got really sucked into it. So it's funny you say that cause I'm thinking back right now of that teacher. And I actually do remember this teacher, Mr. Salazar Salza or something like that. He a super feminine guy. And, you know, as a, as a young boy, I didn't have a father figure in, in my life. I had, I was basically raised by my mother. And when I look at like the men that I was drawn to, I tend to like, I would be drawn to men that were very masculine because I had a lot of, I had, I had two sisters. I had a mother. So I had a lot of those, those feminine traits in the home I grew up in. Like, you know, as a, and so I felt like when I met a real dominant masculine type of man, like already you would probably have my attention. And this guy was like super, super feminine. The way he delivered his, his class, I think I was already turned off by it. And I just could never connect. I couldn't connect. And I look back now thinking like that should have been a subject I should have loved, but I struggled the whole year to get through that. And it was, and when I think about classes that I absolutely hated, that one in history, in history, I, again, this teacher was, reminds me of the teacher you talked about, about just putting stuff on the, I had a history teacher who literally like the way he did it, instead of putting on it, we did every day was like round robin reading. And it was, and so you open up chapter one. That's lazy teaching. And each, each kid would go around and read a page or two. That's lazy teaching. Read out loud. And he sat, big old fat old guy, sat behind the desk and he just sat there while each one of us went around and read. That's so lazy. Oh, it was painful. That's so lazy. It was so painful. And I could not get into anything to do with the subject whatsoever. And forever from that point on went on not enjoying history. And he taught history and Gov, right? What was it in high school? It was, was it government? Yeah, government history, you got history and government together. Yeah, those were probably the ones I didn't like. I think what people, what's fascinating to me, I should say, is how humans, especially children, are really learning machines. And what I mean by that is they're driven to learn. Humans in general, this is what we're, this is like our number one driver is to learn new things, novelty, to become obsessed with particular subjects and to learn everything about it. And if you don't believe me, I mean, you can see any, any kid, the worst student that you can find in the classroom, you'll find something that they're into that may be outside of school that they know everything about. Whether it's Pokemon cards or Minecraft or, you know, when we were kids, you know, comic books and baseball cards and shit like that. Like we're learning machines and really our failure to educate because really our school system is in many ways, not in all ways. They can't make it relatable. In many ways it's doing very, very poorly. And it's because they're, it's not that they're not teaching well necessarily, it's that they're stopping the learning process that naturally happens. Like kids and even adults, we have this desire to constantly learn things. And I didn't really, you know, I looking back at myself, I recognize it all. But as when I was a kid, I didn't even know I had that. I just thought that I was just, I didn't like school and I liked learning about these other things over here. So I'd go home and I'd read about those things. I mean, when I was 13 and I got into resistance training, I mean, I read books and books and books on exercise, the human body. I learned chemistry because I wanted to know the pharmacology of supplements. I wanted to learn hormones and how they work to the body. This is all on my own. And we don't tap into that. Instead we block it with our current systems and part- Not only do we block it, but the thing that I trip out on is how many friends do you have like this that went to college to get their bachelor's or their master's or maybe even their PhD that once they got out of college, they were fucking done. They literally are like, I read enough books in the last eight years plus that they don't continue to put, then they go into some job that's nine to five that pays them good enough to get by and they really stop growing because they're over continuing learning. They don't want to. They're so turned off by it. I've had a ton of friends that are like that. That just- I've liked that for a while myself. And you understand, I get it. Like I understand like you cause- You felt like you were forced. Well, yeah. Well, and for the most part, education for me from all the different types of teachers I'd had was like, it was all based off of like how much you could memorize and regurgitate. And like, I just, I hate that kind of learning. I feel like that is like, I just don't feel like I'm absorbing and applying. Like I feel like I'm just giving them what they want to hear and I could easily just take all these bullet points and memorize it and then present it back on their test in whatever format like they're giving me whether it's like A, B or C, multiple choice. You know, I want to understand why, you know. They never could explain to me like, okay, you know, this is a theory but like I know what you're trying to say, but why? Why? And like, how am I gonna apply this in my life? Yeah, it's such an old model. It's an old model. It's a Puritan model of putting kids, treating them like robots, putting them in chairs all the same age. Here's memorize this, recurgitate this, forget it as soon as we take a test. And then- That's what I would do. I would forget it. It's a very old model. And it's just more and more of the modern world is showing that that is a dated model. Well, I would love to hear some apical things that you guys give to your children to combat that, right? I mean, because are there certain things that you got? I mean, you talked a little bit about how you teach your kid to basically unpack an A, right? You got an A. It's not great jobs on your smart. It's let's unpack that and let's figure out how you got to that and connecting that. I think that's incredible. Yeah, so first I explained to my kids that the way life works currently in modern societies is people wanna see those things before they even pay attention to what you have to say or before you get certain jobs. So sometimes you have to play the game and that's just life, right? You gotta play the game sometimes. Even if, cause I know, I know like my son's already asked, he's 11, right? He's already asked me or pointed out certain things like why am I learning this way when it's not, I'm not remembering it afterwards or why are they making us do it this way? And I'm trying to explain them like you're right, it's ineffective and efficient. However, this is the game that you have to play sometimes and that's just life. Sometimes you have to do certain things because that's the way things are run. When you get a job and you gotta pay bills like reality sets, you gotta play by the rules. And if you wanna change it, the best way you can change it is you get in the system and then you influence it. And influence it from the inside. That's really the most effective way. But the other thing is we just discuss. We have lots of discussions. So if they're learning a particular subject, then we'll sit down and I'll ask them about it and then we'll talk about it and I'll ask them why and what do you think here? And have you ever seen this in real life or you know what does a really fucking good job? Way better than I've seen the school systems do is YouTube has got some crazy resources for kids. Like my kids watch and we watch them together. Ted has these Ted Ed videos that are for kids. I swear it's the future. I'll watch some of these and they're compelling. They're entertaining and they're super informative and we'll watch a few of them together and then I'll leave the room or whatever to do something else. And my kids will go through 15 videos on whatever subject interests them. That's cool. Yeah, like why, how does the climate work or why does water do this? Or, and they'll be like, oh, this is cool. You know, the riddle that had never been answered. You're like, these are the titles that they use. And so my kids will click on them and watch them and just learn this particular information. And when you do that, you know, I mean, we're all, I don't know why I even have to argue this. I mean, think about all the things that you know, like the back of your hand. These are all things you're interested in. I don't remember shit that I'm not interested in. Just doesn't work. But things that I'm really into. Well, and that can change based off of the teacher, right? The teacher influences you like and can speak in a way that like exudes this passion towards the subject. Like that's contagious. And I feel like that's why Ted, like those talks are so compelling because they have this great amount of passion that they're bringing in. And then they present it in a way where it excites the entire audience about whatever the fuck it is. And it's so like, it's such an effective way to get that learning to happen. I think we're gonna see in the next decades to come, the next few decades to come, we're gonna see the most radical change in education than we've ever, than we've seen since the beginning of our current model, which was probably established, I would say in the 1800s. What do you guys say, what do you see right now in your, the difference between, because you both have two kids, what do you see in their ability to learn or how they learn? Are they different? Are they both similar as far as how they learn? So my kids are younger than Sal's, but one's in pre-school and then, and so Ethan's approaching second grade, but I mean, for the most part, you could see their strengths already. So Ethan's very, very good at math. He's just, it's so easy and natural for him. That's just such a subject that resonates with him. So I don't have to really help him to understand and relate with that. He just starts to think about that on his own. He'll just put all these things together and when I'm exchanging money, he starts adding it up in his head and you just see his little wheels turning with that already and so I'm just trying to help him kind of with other things as far as English and grammar and all these kinds of stuff, but yeah, my youngest is very much a kinesthetic learner and he's hands-on and it's very much like me. I had to be in the trenches and he's just, I don't know, you could see just kind of what drives him. He loves to build things and I just, I remember that. That was one of those things. I always wanted to have my hands on something and figure out why, how it works and what had to happen to make this building stand up the way it did and all that kind of stuff. So my daughter's a pleaser. So as far as grades are concerned, I think she's always gonna get good grades because she's always trying to please the teacher, please her parents, she wants to show that she does well. So she'll practice, on her own, we have a dry erase board that I bought for her and she'll do math on it. She'll practice spelling words all on her own because she's really started to identify with being a hard worker and with giving good grades and so I'm trying to also talk to her about why, the why we learn these things and do you enjoy it or is it just that you enjoy doing well? Like the difference between the two. My son is very, he will do what is necessary to get by and then he won't do any extra because- So very much like you. Very much, because he can do very well. He can get away with doing a lot. When I'm bored, right? When he's passionate about something, I mean, the kid will absorb things and learn things to depths that are just shocking. He'll talk about a subject that he's just into and it's great getting corrected by your own kid. My son did that the other day. I don't remember what we were talking about. I was talking about stars or something. He goes, no, actually, it works like this and you know- Wow, this is that to me all the time. And you know, it's cool, I try actually my, I forgot who pointed this out to me but something that we do as parents that may not be a good thing is that when your kid tries to correct you is to immediately say, no, I'm the parent. I know what's better is to give them the respect to be like, oh, is that how it is? Let's look it up and see if that's true to let them know that you respect their opinion and they may be wrong, they may be right. And so I'll do that now. My son will say something. I was like, oh, really? Where did you read that? Is that really how it works? Oh, cool. And then we'll look it up and be like, oh my God. Makes you like the confidence that they're bringing in with that. But yeah, let's fact check. Well, also to show them that, you know, I respect- Exactly. But I think, you know, it's interesting. I think we're gonna see some huge shifts for a couple of different reasons. The first reason being that school, especially higher education, the cost of it has exploded so much faster than inflation that it's scary how expensive it's getting. And it's getting to the point where certain positions, there's certain jobs that people will get that require school, that people are starting to do the math and we're already seeing a reduction in people applying for these particular degrees. For example, if you go to medical school and let's say you get a loan for all of it and you wanna be a general practitioner, you're gonna graduate with around $100,000 in debt, sometimes more, depending on the school. It could be up to $200,000 in debt. And a general practitioner coming right out of school will make barely over six figures. And you're talking about someone who's now probably maybe 30 after they do internship or whatever or late 20s if they really cram with a hundred something thousand dollars with the debt, making maybe a hundred grand a year. And these people are looking at the math and going it's not worth it. It's not like if I leave school or study this other thing that takes the same amount of time, I'll make much more while spending the same amount. So we're gonna get these shortages of particular positions because the money is starting to become so expensive that it doesn't make any sense. I mean, if it gets to the point where it will, if the trajectory continues this way, if it continues this way, imagine if it costs you $300,000 and eight to 10 years after high school of school to graduate to make a hundred grand a year. Is it worth it at that point when you could get a job out of school working in management and business, working for a big chain something, making that same amount eight years later, but having no debt, you see what I'm saying? Or investing your money. What if you invested it and you were smart? So people are starting to add these things up. So that's one of the reasons why I think there's gonna be a huge change in education. The second reason is the accessibility of information is so easy and so cheap that it makes no sense to go to college, take a class, and then that class required you buy this book that costs 300 fucking dollars. Tell me where in the market, anywhere in the market that a book costs $300. Besides one that's signed and rare by some, right? It's crazy, it's a monopoly, it makes no sense, it's super inflated. I think the school system is gonna have to change because I can download that book for almost free. You see what I'm saying? It's insane to me that they're gonna charge you $300 for a book, it just doesn't make market sense. You can be really thrifty these days if you're trying to get a really solid education and I feel like- That's what I'm saying. I think it's gonna change. The reason why, I mean, a lot of people, they just want the status, they want to feed the ego of it and they want to kind of come in like, well, I graduated from this prestigious academic institution and really all it is is like, it's this paper on the wall that they wanna make sure that everybody knows about, whereas you could seriously go through and you could get all that same information now so easily. You know how many people get jobs? Matt Damon and Goodwill Hunting said it best, right? Everybody talks about that. It's true- How about them apples? Now, what do you think though about the fear, what I think like, because I definitely agree and I say that I believe it's changing. I believe that, you know, your TED talks, TED education, those type of things are the future of education because how fast and free we can get so much of this great information. Now, the next question or the challenge to that that I would think is how do we do this and avoid confirmation bias? Because if you pay attention to how YouTube, Google, any search engines work, your next recommended article or video is just reconfirming whatever it is you search for. So for example, like we were joking earlier on before we turned on the podcast about how many people are actually believed that the earth is flat still and that there's actually a large population of people that's still here. So I got on there and said, you know, proof, I Google or YouTube searched proof that the earth is flat and got a ton of great videos, you know, recommended and I started watching and they're good. They're like, they bring a compelling argument and then the next one recommended to me is another one that gives a compelling argument and so what ends up happening is you could easily go down this rabbit hole of information that is biased because of how the search engine works on Google and YouTube. Do you have, do you guys have any concern with that? Like your kids searching? So two things, that's already, that's always happened, right? People have always kind of gone in that direction of confirming what they know. Yeah, but now it's being fed to you versus where before, like of course, like, okay, if you have a certain belief in a religion, like you go to your one religious book for all the answers versus maybe actually- Well, so the question- Searching yourself the opposite. No, I get what you're saying. So the question really becomes this because that's true, that can become a problem, but the question becomes who then do we trust to deliver this information to everybody, right? That's the defining, yeah. Because then you have to put someone in power. Or you teach your kids- There you go. To always, you know, okay son or daughter, you know, when you search this, you know, this is how you search the opposite. Critically think about this. And you should watch and listen and read both. That's it, that's it because I always put more trust in people as individuals than I do into some central power that says, here's what we have to learn. Here's what we have to know. Everybody's gonna learn this particular way. Look, our school system, to a certain point, has been public now for a while. Okay, so a lot of our education has been public for a long time. Look at what they've taught us in public education. Some of the stuff is good and some of it is obviously very, very biased. We don't learn really much about certain cultures and their influences on American culture. We don't learn about other takes on certain things like, I'll give you an example, okay? Vietnam War. What you'll learn in school about the Vietnam War is how we went in there to fight communism and how there was an incident called the Gulf of Tonkin incident where a ship got sunk and then that propelled us into war and we did it because we got attacked first. Well, and by the way, this is confirmed. The reality is that never happened. It never happened. The Gulf of Tonkin incident was never an incident. It was something that we used to motivate the population to wanting to go to war and this has happened many, many times and the public school system being owned and controlled by the government is gonna push a lot of these narratives and you're gonna come out of them being like, oh, this is what, so who do you put in control of all this information? And I don't trust anybody to do that. I trust individuals way more. Does this mean that individuals aren't gonna make stupid decisions and some of them are gonna believe that the earth is flat and stuff like that? No, but I think that that's gonna happen no matter what and I'd rather, what you gotta understand is when you have someone who centrally controls things, the power to really fuck shit up is much higher on that level than it is on the individual basis. And so I always say it's kind of the lesser two evils or which one is better. It's tough, man, because what's the current state where we're at, it's like who really is doing field research? Who actually has their hands in these subjects? Who's got decades behind this information that have done the hard labor intensive research to hone in on becoming an expert in that field? Versus just getting some sensationalized YouTube video that adds a bunch of shitty graphics that will capture your attention and that will sway you in that direction, this is gonna be a battle. This is the battle of over information. And now how do we feed, how do we slice through this? And where do we even find, that's, I guess I'm getting kind of frustrated because I know some people that have been swayed by just sensationalized videos and I just can't believe it, man. You know, it's that fear that you're explaining has always existed throughout all of human history. Every single time information has been more accessible, there's always been a fear that what if the wrong information, what if everybody learns the wrong things? We need to control what people learn. Like when the printing press came, you know, was invented, the first biggest seller was the Bible. The second one was Marco Polo's World Travels. Like there's a book where Marco Polo talks about going to all these exotic countries and seeing all these different things. That was the second most popular book. It must have blown people's minds at a time when people didn't even leave their own village. It must have blown people's minds. The church was very opposed to the printing press. It was very, because they were the teachers of information, they were the centralized authority and they literally would say things like the wrong information is gonna come out, people are gonna sin, people are gonna be bad, like they're gonna learn the wrong things. This has always been kind of the rally cry of those people who control information. And right now, we're hearing the school system, education system say this, they're the ones that are coming out saying no, we need to control information, we need to control what people learn because there's so much bullshit out there and there is a lot of bullshit and a lot of it's being promoted by the fucking educators and by the schools as well. So I never has more information been a net negative. It's always propelled mankind forward and gotten us where we are. Does that mean it's perfect? I completely don't, absolutely not. I don't think it's perfect at all, but so far it's been freaking awesome. So far it's brought us the renaissance and it's brought us in for the industrial age. I think you're gonna see more and more businesses like ours that will become filters for different subjects and topics and industries, right? So I mean, when I really like, when people try and ask- There's a lot of opportunity for that for sure. Right, when people try and ask me to describe exactly because we have a very unique business what we do right now. There's not a lot of people that have paved the way for us to look at and go like, oh, an example of this is exactly how you go about doing what we're doing. And so kind of like the short explanation that I give people is, we've become a filter for the fitness industry. And I feel like that's really what we try our best to do. Of course, we're gonna say things that people don't agree with and we have our own opinions that sometimes ruffle feathers. But at the end of the day, the main message is that we're trying to help people disseminate all this information that's that we're, like Justin said, we're in an era or a time right now of over-information, right? There's so much at our fingertips. How do you know what's good and what's bad information? And that's what the teachers of the future, the near future- Right, are really gonna help you disseminate- They're facilitators. They're facilitators of information. They're the ones that help guide you in certain directions, help teach you how to learn and how to be objective so that you can learn for yourself. Hopefully- Wouldn't you think that's exactly what we do? I hope so. I mean, that's really the goal of MindPub is not to say, this way's right, this way's wrong, we're right, you're wrong. It's that, let us take you through one, ours are a thought process. Here's the way we process this information and then we evaluate it at the end. This is what we end up with. And really, humans are, and we operate really, really well when we specialize. And that's what we do better than any animals. We specialize in particular things. And this idea that you need to learn this huge breadth of different subjects is just, it's just, it's not, it's not true. It's not true that you need to learn all these fucking subjects when you're passionate about this one thing and that's what you're gonna end up doing. There's definitely gotta be a framework. And it's really gonna, I think it's gonna be a lot of facilitated. I really think education's gonna look like this. I think if you're gonna learn math, you're gonna get it from this person over here cause that's the way they, I like the way they teach it. I learned it the best that way. And I wanna get history. The same way that your TV is starting to change where you're not gonna go to a channel and have to watch everything. You're gonna watch individual shows and learn what you want and take it from there. I think people are gonna be much more specialized and much less where everybody took all these other classes that we all forgot. Like, you took trigonometry to really remember how to do it. No, you took all these art history classes. You remember them? No, you were forced to take them. I think there's gonna be less of that and there's gonna be more focus on, you know, particular things. I think it's gonna be less important that we remember facts and information because that's what computers do for us now. These are skills that you don't really need as much. Are there other countries that are doing that better than us right now? What do you mean? That are actually facilitating the education and information system like that. You know, the way we rank education is, you know, test scores. So we'll say like China's kicking our ass and these test scores and this country's kicking our ass. Are we taking the same test? Well, we are, but I'd say let's look at innovation. Who's innovating the most? We still kill everybody at that. America's still the world's leading innovator. And I think part of that has to do with the culture of freedom of expression in America. America still is one of the top countries in the world where you can be very free to express yourself and through that freedom of expression comes innovation. And so America just does a very, very good job of that. Well, it's the newer country that's the melting pot of like a collection of like, you know, all around the world's ideas. So people always like to forget about that part. It's like we're all like, this is coming from all kinds of different directions. It is. Like again, look at China. China is a big producer, second biggest economy in the world, the world's largest population, but their culture and their government doesn't allow for the same amount of freedom of expression. And so they don't innovate near, not even close to how much we innovate or even other Western nations innovate who have much smaller economies. They do a really good job of copying. China will take innovation from America and other countries. They'll copy the fuck out of it and sell it for real cheap because they're really good at producing shit. I'm an Alibaba. But when it comes to, you know, thinking outside of the box and that kind of stuff, we do such a great job. Did you see Craig, it is a little off topic, but it reminds me talking about China. Did you see Craig's insta story of him inside the gym and he did a little kept, this is why China needs me. And they actually have one of those machines still from the fifties where you wrap the belt around you to shake the hell out of you inside one of their gyms. That's great. Yeah, he did a video of himself. You know what's funny? I thought that was hilarious. I bet you guys at some point, they're gonna find that there is some benefit to doing something like that. It's not fat loss, but I bet you they're gonna find that some movement shaking or whatever. It's gonna do something good for you. And when that happens, I'm gonna laugh so hard. Well, I bet you could make some similar connections to the power plate. I mean, as far as what, you know, I remember the first time that I saw the power plate, I thought it was a gimmick and a joke. And when you actually learn the science behind it and how it works and what it's doing with your central nervous system, that makes a little more sense. So you're probably right. I mean, I think it'll be funny though. You could definitely put a spin on anything. There's so much of that has happened. Right. You know what I mean? Where there's this old thing that everybody made fun of and then it came out and they're like, I love the one that's going around right now. Our form is the, what's the name of it? What's the shake weight looking thing version? Oh, the one where you sit on it? The butt plug version of the shake weight. Oh my God. What's it called? I don't remember. It looks like a hydraulic. Looks like you're writing a spring or something. Smart marketing, right? Looks like you're having sex and they know that that shit will get shared a little bit. Yeah, I know. Just like the shake weight. No, no, no, brilliant. Absolutely brilliant. Why those things make so much money is just because they're silly. Like, you know, the snuggie, like they sold millions of those stupid things. Damn, what are we doing wrong? Well, I mean, we just, I recently was talking to the company that we're hiring, right? For our marketing stuff and heading that direction. And one of the ideas that he has to just capture leads in the funnel and it's absolutely brilliant is, you know, a thing where you can, like, and they've done this on Facebook already where you can take a picture of yourself and it shows like who you would look like as a celebrity, like a celebrity person. Like everybody's in, just cause you're curious. Like I'd be curious, like who, what are you gonna make me? It could be so far off. The whole thing. Yeah, right. But it's, and so he wants to do something similar with, you know, what would you look like super ripped? You know, like. Oh my God. Right? Take a picture of yourself. What would you look like? And then the thing morphs and transforms into a super ripped version of you. That'd be a viral freaking app. Right. And I told him, I said, I'm so fucking brilliant to just, just to capture the leads, right? All the body shaming army coming after you. Oh, why would you have to look like that? No, it's very, very clever though. Very, very clever. So that was great. Yeah. Well, there you go. Check this out. Go to YouTube, Mind Pump TV. We post a new video every single day. It's a fantastic resource. We're talking about education. We post new video every day on exercise, on fitness debates, on, you know, mobility and, you know, helping yourself if you have joint pain. Excellent resource. Absolutely free. Subscribe. You'll get alerted every time we post a new video. Also, check us out on Instagram. Mind Pump Media. That's the page. You can also find our individual pages. I'm Mind Pump Sal. Adam is Mind Pump Adam. And Justin is Mind Pump Justin. Thank you for listening to Mind Pump. If your goal is to bend and shape your body, dramatically improve your health and energy, and maximize your overall performance, check out our discounted RGB Superbundle at MindPumpMedia.com. The RGB Superbundle includes MAPS Anabolic, MAPS Performance, and MAPS Aesthetic. Nine months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal Adam and Justin to systematically transform the way your body looks, feels, and performs. With detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos, the RGB Superbundle is like having Sal Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers, but at a fraction of the price. The RGB Superbundle has a full 30-day money-back guarantee, and you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at MindPumpMedia.com. 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