 Hey folks, so this is the third installment on my series of psychology for trading and here we are with Krita Kelly. Is that right? Krita. I always do that whenever I, yeah, sorry about that. Krita Kelly. So, you know, Krita and myself have been working together for long enough for me to pronounce her name properly but for a number of years now and you know some really good sections and I just wanted to get credit involved in this series to kind of talk about how the people that she works with, a lot of the time high performance sports people and executives and some of the practical elements that she brings to those people and to the things that they want to work on and I thought that might work really well for rounding off this series. So we have a couple of questions I wanted to kind of get through but really it's just a framework for the discussion around performance thinking and I suppose for traders it's sort of how do we get from, you know, when we start learning how to trade it's very hard to adjust to that sort of risk mindset and I wanted to really open it up to Krita and see what you think about some of those challenges and what you've really seen in the past. Yeah, sure. So I might just give a little bit of a background on how it actually ended up in the trading sphere because it might seem a bit strange coming from sports psychology. So I'm a high performance psychologist but the bulk of my career was working with elite athletes or professional athletes in optimizing performance and so I would have studied sports psychology and qualified in that but actually the principles of, you know, high performance and the principles of sports psychology are the exact same. It's all about humans operating in high pressure environments and you know succeeding. So what I found was, I've been coaching since 2008 so what I found was along the line people, so Tim actually found me in this way so I was working as a sports psychologist but I got a lot of people from different high performance domains contacting me and so I've worked with everyone from opera singers to pilots to doctors to, you know, anyone that's kind of working in a high pressure environment and so then, you know, start working with Tim and the trading side of things really took off because there's such a similarity between the mindset that's required in elite sports, professional sport and the mindset that's required in trading and actually there's a lot of similarities between the two arenas as well, you know, the high risk, the spit second decision making, all of that. So I've been working now for the past around two years with traders to really dig into that mindset and I suppose the approach that I take so just to maybe explain how where Tim's coming from on the psychology side of things and where I'm coming from complement each other, I don't have a background in trading itself so I don't trade in the market but my expertise is in psychology so what I bring to the mix is an understanding of the depth of the psychology that drives humans and the things that can mess us up and then how that plays out in the market. So my approach to high performance is to go really deep into the psychology of the person and then link that with the actions you're taking in the market and how that, how you can actually kind of use practical strategies to change what you're doing in the market to optimize your performance but it means going in depth into the person and so what I found really the biggest wins that I've had with traders have been sometimes from unlocking things at a very deep level like poor limiting beliefs that are playing out then in, you know, the typical actions that you see in the market like revenge trading, ego trades, fear missing out all of that but it's actually coming from a deeper place inside the person. So that's really where I found that the, you know, the biggest wins come from. Yeah, that's really interesting because, you know, core limiting beliefs and I always find that I'm coming back, you know, with traders I'm coming back to their core confidence in their ability to do their job and so with my small group of elite traders every week on a Friday the first question in review is write yourself one to ten on how comfortable and confident you felt in your ability to do your job as a trader and just because you just want to get a pure quick leg gauge on how they feel and, you know, something I talked about in one of the master classes we did is, you know, it's, it's like, I can, I can so easily, I felt this myself in sport and in trading in that you once you start sitting there and any thought creeps in that you're, you're sitting there at a deficit for knowledge or a technical skill then it just starts this, this downward spiral of, you know, just giving in to the losses there, just, just clicking buttons and it's just all spiraled down into like fear missing out of trades and, you know, chasing trades it's kind of similar and just, just totally ignorant of the part of you that knows you shouldn't be doing these things and so yeah I mean that's, you know, really something that I'd love to talk more to you about is like how do you help people to kind of transition on remember there's one trader that I was working with that went on to work with you who I had a session with them and he was like every time trades go on side like really on side the more they go on side and if the profit the more he just cannot wait to get out of it because it's so, it was so painful to him and I was just like well I do really talk to yourself down quite a lot and he's like absolutely my wife would totally agree with that statement so like can you talk a bit about how you work with that? Sure there's actually so many pieces to that my brain's going mad because there's loads of different things I want to pick up on there but just to come up to the idea of confidence in yourself like that's fundamental and literally I would say across every client I've had through every performance to main confidence is the main thing or one of the main things that they want to work on so even professional athletes at the top of the profession top of their game you know and they're still trying to build confidence so it's not always about fixing things that are going wrong sometimes it's about even optimizing strengths as well but that confidence piece is so important because in these arenas so trading and sports pressure is very high and that's just the nature of the job but having strong confidence can kind of offer the against the impact of that pressure so it actually stops you can talk about that maybe down the line around how pressure impacts our thinking but having high confidence kind of protects against that so it's a way that you can if you can build your confidence you can deal with more pressure and so but that's a really interesting point about you know that trader that you're speaking of that's kind of when they were winning they were you know it felt uncomfortable and this is something that I've seen a lot actually as well and it's really counterintuitive like people kind of get surprised when you talk about this but a lot of people can have a fear of success so it's deep rooted and it's not something you would see on the surface and but it's it can be something that's inbuilt in us from I don't know childhood from our parents from lots of different experiences but we can actually limit ourselves from succeeding for a myriad of different reasons and it takes self-awareness to understand why we're doing that and then to shift it and but it is something that's come up time and again and sometimes it's useful to actually question like what would it mean if I was to succeed and you might be surprised by the answer you know maybe you might have to let go of certain relationships or maybe you might have to change your self-identity or other people would be jealous and you're trying to you know protect against that discomfort things like that so there's a whole load of kind of really deep psychology reasons why people can actually hold themselves back from succeeding so that's one piece of it obviously then the rest of it you know it's it's hard enough to have good practices in the market and to stick to your plan and all of that this is something that people should watch out for if you find that you're consistently not kind of hitting your targets even though you know you have the capacity to do so maybe question are you holding yourself back and just one other piece to pick up on there love what you're saying about you know every Friday racing how confident were you so that's a really good example of taking a psychological concept of bringing us into you know your practical day-to-day trading so actually getting it down in numbers and being able to track week by week how is my confidence that's really the basis of the work that I do with people is developing that self-awareness through tracking through metrics you know objective data and so that you can start to see patterns and so once you kind of have the data there then you can start looking at why that might be so for example if you have a run of really low confidence three weeks in a row it could be something that's going on in some other area of your life like in your personal life that's impacting your confidence and it's playing out in the market so in high performance you can't separate the person from the performer you know both sides of things are always in play yeah so what so there's a couple of great questions uh or sorry what great things you said that have just like gotten questions going in my mind is that like one thing I wanted to ask you you know I mean maybe maybe quite a few traders watching this you know are thinking wow I wish I had the problem that was just confidence you know whereas I'm just bleeding money day on day on day you know how do I take myself out of this spiral and make a change and I know when you and I started working I was in a pretty bad personal space and I knew it was impacting my trading and I suppose how do you kind of create that awareness because for me I was just like no evidence fine I mean yeah I've had a bad bad breakup here but no I'm dealing with evidence fine but really to kind of objectify that or to take yourself out from that what sort of things do you kind of kind of person do kind of take themselves out and be a bit more aware maybe so I think like we were talking about it's really it's about building self-awareness but doing it in a practical way so the first step that I take with any when I'm doing one-to-one coaching with anyone whether it's a trader an athlete from any performance domain we do I think all the performance profile so sounds fancy but it's a pretty simple exercise we actually break down performance like a jigsaw so you look you under a different heading so physical factors mental factors technical skill tactical and lifestyle you think of all of the different things that impact your trading so even you know so not just the things you're good at or you're bad at but literally everything that has an impact on your trading performance so that if you were 10 out of 10 on all of these different things you know it would result in peak performance and that's usually an eye-opening exercise for people because you start thinking outside the box and you start getting into this performance lifestyle approach that I talk about so this would be something that athletes really you know use and ascribe to so your sleep can impact your your trading and maybe that's not an area that people who are thinking you know I really want to prove my trading they're not first thinking actually about a good the better night's sleep however that's fundamental so in any performance domain like we all know if you don't get good sleep you know you're not going to be functioning optimally in a cognitive way so this exercise maps everything out and then it gives you a good sense of like a snapshot in time of where you're at on every factor and usually you'll find that there's one core thing in the middle that if you improve that first you know five other things would improve so you can actually approach this in a very systematic and practical way I remember when we did my performance profile and I just thought off this is just like I don't I don't really know where this is going and then when I filled it out and I was like oh okay there's some stuff here maybe to look at the right way and then we got in a session room it's like oh god this business like just picked me apart and it was I was amazed at actually how much self-clarity it gave me and then from that I could develop like a whole different level of confidence because because I was just so much more self-aware and I just thought that was amazing and that was really a turn point for me in working with you and so well thank you for that but you know I highly recommend that for people to do another question I have is like you know in relation to because I know like most traders that I talk to are just they're they're kind of young or they're starting or they're like you know six months in maybe two years in that have these real sort of especially with the traders who are like two years in three years in it's always they have such an awareness of that it's just their psychology that they know all the technical stuff they have good edge but it's just these you know self-limiting beliefs or didn't they don't have good sleep things like that I think that get them but coming back to like you know maybe most of the traders that might be watching this who are kind of suffering in P&L performance I mean for example like how how does the mindset of like say Johnny Sexton uh rugby player priorities how does how does he develop his mindset the kind of like what gets him to being Johnny Sexton in terms of how does he think uh yeah he's got natural talent obviously but then also when he's there in front in stadium being all around the world about to take a kid how does he not chill and what you know how does he keep his mind running at all so it is literally practice discipline systematic approach to developing that mindset and they think that's something that maybe people miss when they think of performance psychology for some people it seems a bit oh and especially even as I'm talking about going deep into your core limiting beliefs probably half the people have gone oh that's not for me but it's there you can actually do this and the best way to do it to develop the mindset you need for peak performance is to treat it the same way that you build your technical skills and your tactical skills in trading like you learn techniques you implement them you consolidate them become second nature and then you move to a higher level of you know learning new skills and so it's the exact same on the mental side of it so for example like and I have worked with you know children in the past on the mental side of a teaching mental skills at a very simple level for say sport and that and but it's the same so you start simple and then you build up the the kind of complexity of what you're doing so same with for example Johnny Sexton he's gonna be working on the mindset mental side of his game for years and years and years and he's he would practice under pressure as well so and I think you'll find that in a lot of sports people that say especially people that have a role in sports where the pressure is on them as an individual so in a team sport you know for a number 10 and would be if you're kicking the whole stadium all the pressure is on you so and you know typically in those positions people will actually train under pressure in order to try and recreate the pressure of being in a in a match situation championship match and so for example uh I think Johnny Wilkinson talks about this in his book as well that you know they would give themselves a target like getting say 200 kicks on target in a row and starting again if they miss it at the end of training so when they're fatigued and you know so in that way they're building up their mental resilience under fatigue so you can literally systematically train for this and I think it's important for traders starting out like there is an element of you need some technical tactical skills in place for the mental side of things at the level we're speaking about to really be of benefit and to kick in so at the start I'd always say to people like when I'm working with people in terms of uh trading coaching I would say they need to be at a certain level of technical skill in order to benefit because if you if you only have a certain amount of time to spend on trading during the week you know get the technical skills to a good level that's kind of relatively automatic so that you know what you need to be doing and then we can start looking at why do you deviate from that plan so I think you know it's taking that systematic approach and understanding that it's the exact same as building up your technical skills you approach the mental side of it in the same way I've just lost your audio there Tim. I'm plastic so I mean it's I think a lot of people think that these wins are only attained by you know these gains are only attained by um you know a small amount of practice and kind of very turnkey quick fixes but you know as you're saying there it's just methodical consistent you know kick in 200 starting again if you missed the 150th kick you know and I think we're trading I think a lot of people think that well if they just put on a series of indicators and have one or two good trades that then okay they're done you know but but I think yeah something that I want to get out to people watching this is that um you know even with the most technically proficient traders I've worked with and trade and beside um you know they they don't just get there because they have a magic set of indicators it's because they have a really strong consistency to doing the right things practicing those right things and just making it like a reflex action and that takes a lot of like repetition um and it's not something that you know they're they're just doing for like four hours uh once a week and and it's done and that might be a shocker to a lot of new traders who just you know think well I'm just going to put some risk on and I'll be driving a Ferrari by the end of the month it's more the best traders I've worked with have have years of of consistency well years of practice and they start on small size edge and then there is a pivot point where they just go on to really big size um because essentially P and Alice is the product of size so if someone has 100 percent or 99 percent consistency trading micros um they could very easily just turn turn the risk up like a thousand percent and they're just going to be making a lot more money but it unless you develop that consistency on the micros you're you're really uh you can't move on to bigger like putting more money into your account and trading that because essentially you're you're kind of just lying to yourself um and you're kind of winging it and gambling um but you're brilliant stuff so um you know I started off this series with that quote from Phil Halmuth um something about you know uh good luck is having a being dealt a good set of cards but skills knowing how and when to bet and I pulled a start on that in a master class session that I did um a couple of months ago and I pulled everybody on how long or how many hands they think that Phil Halmuth uses or plays in any tournament and everyone was surprised to realize that the average was only uh 12 percent of the hands that he's dealt he plays and so you know coming back to my holy grail which is trading is waiting you know working is waiting um how do you think people can you know restrain themselves in a way from taking what seems to be like opportunity after opportunity and you know and then they get themselves into trouble you know wise but what are some of the tools really that you've seen with your work with high performance people where where maybe being too aggressive or being too active or too eager can be damaging so that's a really good topic to talk about because it comes up for so many people um the first layer of that is exactly like you've touched on in the other videos about understanding that trading is a different you know it's a different mindset it's a shift in thinking that will help you to develop that patience so um I was thinking this when I was watching your other videos that trading is probably one of the only professions where you know you can have a little bit of training and just go in and operate at the same level as people that have been operating in the market for years you know so if you think of what it takes for I don't know a barrister to get qualified and then go and actually be responsible for the outcome of people's lives in court or a surgeon or whatever it it takes a long time before they're actually exposed to the the real world consequences of what they're doing whereas with traders you can just you know you could read a book and then enter the market so I think it's really important to give the right amount of respect to this performance domain and understand that whatever level you know you're starting out at that just because you have access to the the risk that you could potentially put on doesn't mean that you should you know go in and take full advantage of it that you really do need a measured approach and you need to understand it's a process saying with athletes that start off you know some athletes would come in kind of say around academy level and rubino 18 and they've always been at the top of their game in school and they're used to being really good and they're naturally talented but you really see the difference then between the people who are willing to put in the the work and the discipline and the patients they eventually outperform the people that had natural talent but kind of just assume that they can get by on that so in terms of going back to your idea of say people being overactive in the market and you know eager to get involved and kind of wanting to take every opportunity there's different reasons why people do that so sometimes it can be a mindset like a personality trait of being someone who's quite impulsive who gets a buzz from just being active in the market and there's a really good book people might have heard about it the chimp paradox by Steve Peters and he talks about he's a sports psychologist he talks about this idea of everybody having an inner chimp that's basically just really impulsive and you know just wants to get involved wants to be excited and so becoming aware of that propensity in yourself and kind of disrupting that automatic process where you're just following brain chemistry so you basically your brain gets rewarded if you jump into the market and you put on high risk regardless of the outcome the actual act of doing that can make you feel good by releasing like dopamine in your brain so to be conscious of that is really important for people who are naturally kind of risk takers would have that tendency towards a gambling mindset that's one piece of it is to just identify are you someone that that kind of plays out in you know for you and your brain chemistry and your personality and to become quite conscious about trying to disrupt that pattern so when that chimp starts you know going for the button that you actually kind of pause and reflect and say is this aligned with my trading plan or is this just me wanting to get a short-term buzz from the act of being in the market so that's one piece of it and then another piece that comes up a lot for people as like a root reason why people tend to be overactive and it's often when their ego is quite tied up so I mean this from a psychology perspective no no judgment on this but when people are trading for ego reasons so um either to protect your self-esteem so to feel good about themselves you know to to make more money but in a way that it's to um to to build up their self-esteem basically that is kind of a danger zone for you because if you're if it means that if you lose or if you miss an opportunity or if you you know if you don't come out with massive profit that it says something about you as a person and that's when you're in a danger zone as well so when you're trading is tied up with your self-esteem you're much more likely to take impulsive action in the markets or you know to kind of take a loss really badly and go after it to try and make up for it so I think there are a few key things to look out for in that space but obviously it's quite individual so there are very different reasons why people do us but it's a common challenge that people face for for me yeah absolutely uh the way I've looked at that is like I read the intergame of tennis by Timothy Galloway and obviously the work we did as well um and I think I think the intergame of tennis was a book that helped me categorize you know I remember we we did last sessions where we almost had a new name for the monkey uh in my head uh nearly every different session and uh but something I remember from that was actually it was to be not make it as such a negative thing and then segueing into the intergame of tennis it was to say listen there are kind of two parts of you there's your ego and then there's there's there's your kind of uh self uh two which is like the instinctual sort of fluid flow thought flow process flow state sort of person but your ego is always trying to like hold that flow state back and so I just once I kind of was able to categorize that from you and I working on it and that just opened up a whole new world for me in terms of my psychology how I think about doing my job and uh and being able to sort of siphon off all the negative sort of persona ego stuff that actually just always wants to be you know killing it and you know slamming these markets every single day and it's just that's giving me so much um clarity actually being able to detach these things and it's kind of categorized this and this is not a good thought process this is more instinctual it feels right because it looks right and it is a good trade um so take it you know and yeah that's been fantastic and so I know we're getting on a little bit here but um I wanted to kind of close off with one question well it's actually two but it's kind of they're interrelated um but it's it's sort of like one statement I made in the first video was and I get this from very early stage traders and is you know who have done a lot of blood sweat and tears trading um and you know maybe they've had a couple of winners and then they want to get into full-time futures trading or stock trading um and it's it's it's this is that they say wow the more I actually know about how these markets move and the more I know about uh macroeconomics or whatever it's it's just it's it's it's so hard to make money whereas before I was just like flow state just no this looks like a good trade and they were kind of essentially flipping coins but now it's a game of not just flipping a coin um but also then I could the other part of this question is um when there's lots of information and it's tied together when there is lots of information how is it how can we work on categorizing all of this so it doesn't stifle our our ability to do the job of being trader so it's an interesting point and I think some of that is about acceptance that that is part of the learning process so there's one thing about starting off and maybe maybe you are making money because you don't know what you don't know and you know so maybe the you're not over analyzing or whatever but that can only take you so far so it's I earned the first poker game I'm not going to put up with the first game I played I was playing against I think 10 guys and I literally never played in my life and I got down to me and one other guy and it was purely because I didn't know what I was doing and I was just you know so but that would not have been a strategy that would have carried me through many other poker games so it's the same idea that in this process if this is going to be a career if this is going to be you know where you have long-term targets that you want to hit you have to accept that there is a period of time where you're going to be hit with loads of information and it's going to take time to consolidate it and you will get there and and it's about finding your own like you talked about this in other videos kind of finding your own edge finding you know not paying attention to every single indicator but actually figuring out what works for you and that's a process in itself so if you think about learning to drive the car you know at the start of it you're trying to process all these different things like the gears you're trying not to hit the old lady on the street you're you know can't drive the music on because it's too confusing when you're thinking of everything else then eventually it becomes really automatic and solid and you can do it without thinking nearly and then you can get into a flow state so it's the same idea that actually just being patient with that process and understanding that as you level up so as you're improving your trading skills you're going to open up to more information but that's part of the process if you think of any other realm where you want to become an expert you know you can't stay in the comfort zone of just having a little bit of information and sort of hoping that that'll carry you through you have to open up to taking in more and and then working to consolidate that and just being patient with that process but be aware as well that under pressure even for people who have already consolidated that pressure can make you actually go back into that state of breaking down all the information and second guessing yourself so like paralysis by analysis so if as you're on that journey of kind of trying to consolidate the information to make it automatic if you can also manage your how you deal with pressure it will buffer against starting to get confused or kind of overthinking all of the information at your disposal so there's a few different ways to do it so I'd say boiling that down one is being patient with process and two and accepting that it's part of the journey and especially if you're thinking about it as a long-term career and then two is be mindful of actually dealing with the effects of pressure and anxiety on your thinking so what would you what would be like maybe your top one or two pieces of advice for traders to you are just finding a really hard psychologically to you know they're learning a lot at the moment they're reading all the books and you know but they're maybe there's one trader actually who was I was messaging with on Friday who's I think he's in the markets three or six months and he was sending me these videos and was trading and he's like I can't believe what I've done here we've we've broken up through this resistance area and I have I've had this trade plan for the last 48 hours that if we broke up through this and made a pullback I'll trade this and I'll go long and then he was explaining this he was like but that's not what I did the market broke up pull back once twice three times and I I'd be shorting it every time and he's just saying I don't know what I'm doing to myself what like what am I doing now it's like there's one person is analyzing the other person's trading so to kind of come back here it's like I suppose what what would be kind of your top one or two pieces of advice for traders who are just probably amazed at how they have great plans but they're not executing these great plans so couple of different I'll give three if that's okay sorry I don't know we're going over time but first one just to your point about how do you when everything's fine if you're learning all this information all about I would say set realistic goals set you know small achievable goals and daily weekly monthly uh you know so you if you're learning all that information and then you have the goal like say your five-year goal is to be earning whatever from trading but you're expecting that of yourself now like then you're going to confuse yourself whereas if you keep it simple simple goals I think those yes simple goals and I think really for traders that boils down to a P and L figure like or or I think that's where it would really help you know yes have goals for learning a certain amount or proficiency goals for example but really with traders you know I think setting realistic targets is has such a power you know because you're sitting there thinking oh why don't I make like 500 bucks today well stop designing a game that's really hard to play when you can design a smaller game that you can actually win every day by saying I'm trading micros I want to make 50 bucks every day and have consistency doing or 100 quid so I mean yeah for goals for me that's a big one that I've been talking about the last two days in the in the trading round but absolutely and even to go a step further on that because sometimes actually so you should have P and L goals but then to work even backwards from that having more kind of performance based goals that are in your completely in your control can be helpful so for example our process based goals so aiming for consistency so maybe like rating yourself on how you well how well you stuck to your trading plan every day and making that the the emphasis at the start is well even actually for skilled traders but that's a kind of good focus to have it's completely within your control you know that if you do that over a long period of time you will get results so it even will deal away from the pressure of the P and L day to day and gives you a different focus and makes it quite straightforward so that's I think that's really important and then some other suggestions I think building self-awareness is fundamental to all of this so if people find that they're either over trading or they're afraid to put on risk it's I would say do that kind of performance profile exercise and understand what's behind your actions even if it's at a you know if it's not at the level of going deep into your psychology even if it's just understanding patterns in your behaviors that will give you the tools to be more conscious about choosing your actions that's actually a really practical exercise it's not like every fairy concepts of psychology that don't really resonate with people it's actually an exercise that really has a practical almost like a tangible outcome so I'd be a big supporter of that. I actually have a pdf and that I can send it to you can put it as a link for people so just go step by step to talk people through that because it really is the first place to start and then the last one and although this would probably take a bit longer to explain is t.doggan.com and we'll put a link to that at the bottom of this video and we can send that over again that's awesome. The last thing I would say is affirmations which does sound to be to be to some people but honestly I've had the most logical thinkers you know who were who wouldn't normally deal with any of that stuff in their lives use affirmations and how they literally overall everything like transform everything for them so there are statements that you say in the present tense about yourself that reinforce the mindset that you want to have when you record them and you know your own voice saying them you play them every day it sounds very out there but I honestly it is a way to shift a mindset so even if you're just trying to build confidence you could have an affirmation statement maybe it's in your you know you want to build confidence in your ability to stick to the plan so I stick to my trading plan every day I have full confidence in my ability I'm doing everything I can to become the trader I want to be those type of statements. I have something interesting that we worked on together and I actually it was a bit jarring at the start and then and then I really got into it and I actually you know Annie do talks about this making a promise to your future self that keeps your you know the person you are right now sort of in check and responsible to something in the future right and I think the scripts and performance scripts is just a task that you do with your clients I thought that was really good and I thought it was interesting how I was asking you how I do high performance individuals do this and you were like well yeah some of the the ronie players you've worked with have these like these dialogues and these affirmations memorised and they might break it out in the middle of a pitch and again yeah absolutely and even that's interesting it is jarring at the start because you're literally challenging deeply held beliefs so you're you're trying to as you try and change your mindset like that monkey or chimp or whatever is like really holding on to those old beliefs so it can be a bit uncomfortable and then but then it starts flowing and you see results and then you want to keep going with this so I think there are three tips anyway for people to take away that's amazing thank you so much that's that's really good really good chat so how could we get hold of you or how would someone find you if they wanted to you know learn a little more yep absolutely so my website is creativeperformance.com so maybe I'll send you just because my name is an awkward spelling this and maybe we can drop that in the link below as well and I mostly am on I'm on Instagram and LinkedIn professionally but LinkedIn is probably where I'm more active so if people want to contact me there it's Pray to Sheehy Kelly and I think there's only one person with that name in the world so happy to chat to people and if anyone has questions you know just reach out or my email as well as on my website so you can email me there and they're the best places to find me. Brilliant well listen thanks so much for a great session and I think this has been a good way to round off a little bit of videos on trading psychology and now you know we might we might bring some more into this series down the line but for now thanks so much and look forward to talking to you soon. Thanks a lot. Cheers see you.