 One of the things I encourage men to do is actually talk to women and listen to some of their stories. Because what you will hear is I was touched when I was five and because of that it led to this type of behavior and this type of stuff that happened in my life. Now, unfortunately, a lot of boys have those same experiences. We don't frame it that way though. We say, oh, he liked it. That 16-year-old who was fucking on him when he was eight, he liked it. But those same results come from the boys. So these men who are promiscuous, we call them drug boys. It's the same trauma. It's expressed differently. But we don't empathize with men. We only empathize with women. And that was the whole point I was making about if we're really going to see a community with better men and better women, the equity of empathy has to be there. But we can't just focus on all the things that because, a lot of dudes are suffering for sure. They're going through it. But we don't think about it like that. And unfortunately, the messed up part about it, we reward them for being more damaged. We don't reward healthy men. We don't reward healthy masculinity. We just complain about it. Because a healthy man is everything to me nowadays. And I have to say for me, I learned to value men more and not look at them as like this thing or like this. Because for me, a man was always like a mission, a toy, something to play with. And so this year, I literally have to say this year, I really took the time to value men, listen to them and be their friend more than just like, what can you do for me? And I'm not even a, what can you do for me financially, Saffa girl? I'm just like, I want you to come over here. I want to see you like, what can you do for me? What what you mean? Like what triggered that change for you? My breakup. I had a breakup last year. And so I felt like we fast forwarded that relationship. And I never learned how to be a friend to a man before, never. And I feel like if I, I wasn't a real friend to me ever, I don't think, I don't think I was to say how I'm a friend because I love a girl. Like I love my girlfriends, you know what I'm saying? I didn't value men in the same way because like I said, I look at them as toys, right? So with my ex, that's good. That's powerful. That's good. I'm just saying that's good. So with my ex, I really wanted to be serious with him, but we were moving like super fast. And then like, he abandoned a relationship. So then I had to take a look with him like, okay, so ain't no man going to stop talking to you for no reason. You get what I'm saying? Sometimes yes. But then at the same time, I can't sit up here and be like, I didn't do anything at all. So I had to retrait like accountability. What do I do? What could I have done? And not saying that it's completely my fault. However, I play a part because everybody play a part when you're in a relationship. So what part did I play? What could I have done that I probably feel like if it was the other way around, I wouldn't have wanted them to do that to me. And so it took me a little minute. It took me a little while to get it together. But I figured out what it was and I apologize. He never responded to me apologizing, but I did it for me because I felt like I needed to free myself from, if I hurt you, I need to apologize and say that I hurt you. And regardless, if you accept my apology or not, I know that I did that for me. And so I can give what I'm saying. I want to throw this question to the both of y'all. Who wants to go first? It doesn't matter. Okay. Porky, you go first. All right. Why do you think it is so difficult for most women baseline to empathize with men? Take your time, man. Yeah, I got to think. I expect something good from you because you got time now. Honestly, because kind of like what did you say, we don't take the time to get to know men as people. A lot of times it's get to know a man to see where we could go. A lot of that male and female friendship thing, more so in this day and age, to me, it's more so non-existent than it used to be. Because some of my best friends in this world are men. And I talk to them like I talk to my homegirls, sometimes to their chagrin. But they call me bro sometimes too just because we have that relationship. But when you take the time to get to know men as people, you have a new respect for them. But in the same token, when a man takes the time to get to know a woman as a person, you're able to let down those walls that otherwise, and bear that wouldn't be there. Like you're not so focused on she wants me to have this, this, this. I want to look like this, this, this. No, I can see you at your worst. I've seen you broke it. And I'm okay with that. And a lot of times we're putting on airs, we're putting on these facades and these shows, so you don't get to know the real person as a person. It's more so for the, I guess for the hunt, I guess I'll say, rather than for that relationship. So maybe if we start working on getting relationships with men and women downpacked, then we could have less, you know, space. I think it's, we don't, we don't take that time to get to know them as people rather than just male, female. Right. Right. Then when I agree, but I definitely agree and it all comes down to, I think a lot of times too, we have this idea of what a man should be, whether it's planning in us as a young girl, what our mothers told us with other women and said what a man should be. So we dehumanized them and we look at them as this robot. And I can say for myself, I've had somebody tell me, you act like I'm a robot, like I don't have feelings. Well, I didn't think you did really. You're strong. You're supposed to be strong. You're supposed to show up. I'm the one that's supposed to show the emotions, but when you get to know a man and the makeup of a man, they can be just as vulnerable as us. They're just as broken as us, just as traumatized as us. They just internalize a lot because men don't speak. When a man gets quiet, he's thinking. We do a lot of talking because we're emotional. And so men, they do a lot of thinking. And so I think it's just, we don't get to know them and say, okay, who are you? Not what can you be to me as a woman? Can you be a husband? Can you be a provider? Can you be a father? Can you be XYZ? But who are you as a man? Let me get to know you and be a friend and see how we can come together as one. And I can be of support to you to undergird you because I'm the helpmate. So therefore I'm going to help you be all that you can be is the army say, but I got to get to know who you are as a man and the makeup of you opposed to what everybody has told me what a man should be. A husband should be this. And so now I got this game plan in this rulebook and this list of what my husband should be. And if you don't come up with everything on this list, then you got to go. And celebrate the beauty and the vulnerability of a man. You have to encourage that vulnerability. And that's the biggest compliment as a woman you can get from man to open up to you and be vulnerable. That means he sees you as a safe place. And a lot of times as women, we want that safe space, but we don't provide that safe space. But when a man can say, oh, I can come and talk to you about my day or what I'm dealing with or that I'm emotionally just all over the place, that's a compliment. But a lot of men don't feel safe enough to do so. So it's hard to get to know him because we don't give him a safe enough space to be who he is. So we meet the representative because they're under so much pressure to make us feel like I'm this man that she wants me to be opposed to this is who I am taking to leave it. My take on it would be, I feel like the world has blinded women in a sense of looking at men as a masculine power. So consistently we'll look at masculine so we can deal with everything. So we'll constantly look to deal and accept everything that comes our way and not have an opinion about it. So when a woman looks at a man, she's going to look at a man as oh, you're weak or a bitch ass nigga. If you complain about your feelings and emotions to me, right? If I'm trying to express myself, the woman is going to say I'm weak. So a lot of times the man is going to go back into a place of not feeling like he can express himself because it is power in his expression. But if he can't express it because the woman don't allow him to, then it's never an export for him. He's never going to export how he's feeling. So then he keeps that in because the world says he has to be masculine. No lie. I saw this. Well, I was, I don't know who did it, but there was some rapper or somebody famous who his girlfriend bought him a car or something recently. And he's like a rapper, hard damn, he's been in prison, all this stuff. And he cried. He was like nobody's ever done this for me before. And I was sitting in this room with people and a young lady was talking about it. And her reaction to it was, I was like, ew, you know, I'm in a prison. He's gonna be a crying. And in my head, I said, this is why we have a problem because he said, the man said that no one has ever done something of this nature to him before. And he's not allowed to cry because you've been to prison. You and your man, you are not allowed to cry because you're so full up on joy over something that somebody you love has done for you because they love you and want to see you happy. What are we doing? If we, if we can't have that, what are we doing? And most men are raised that way. Brothers that have sons in there. That's the sun ain't allowed to cry. You're not allowed man up, man up. So that's burning their brain already. So you kind of have to help deprogram them as their woman, as their partner to say, it's okay. It's all right. I ain't gonna tell nobody. I'm not gonna laugh. I'm not gonna throw it up in your face. And as women, we have to know when he does come to that point to where it can be vulnerable, close your mouth and don't bring it up tomorrow about he was crying when you get upset. And you wanted, well, you was crying the other day. You just, no, now he's retreated. So now you've used it as leverage and as ammunition. He never trusts you again. Never part. And he's going to find somebody else. For sure. Period. I don't want to put all the blame on women. I think. Oh, we're not doing that. But that's true. Yeah, I'll say this, like, in my journey of trying to understand the world and shit like that. When you study history, masculinity is about dying well. Masculinity and death are kind of correlated, right? He died a hero. Exactly. But it's whether you died marching into a coal mine and an oil rig, marching into battle, whether you killed your dreams to protect or provide for you. A lot of dudes wouldn't go to school because they had to work the field to, you know what I'm saying? So masculinity is about, in some sense, dying well and how you're remembered. Because during your life, people are going to talk shit or he just like Deion Sanders right now. He didn't do this enough, did this enough. If he died to tomorrow, man, you see what I'm saying? So with that being said, there's never been an incentive for men to be emotionally expressive. There's more of an incentive for us to be callous, for us to be rough and rigid enough to be able to bear whatever pains come with battle or work or politics or whatever the case may be, from the villages of Africa all the way to the United States. So with that being said, I think we need to be careful about that there seems to be like a growing condescension amongst women. And you kind of alluded to it, episode one, when you said men need to tap into their femininity. There's this sense of a healed man or an ideal man is a man who is relative to women, who is closer to femininity, without acknowledging all the reasons why your brother's son can't cry. Like it's nice for him to cry, but in the real world, he can't cry. And his ability to compartmentalize things and be able to act accordingly is more valuable than his ability to cry. And we need to be honest about that, because unfortunately, especially a lot of young boys, whether it's from women or whether it's from the world, just like media generally right now, they're getting mixed messages. I want you to be a nice guy, but I'm giving pussy to the nigger who's not nice at all. I want you to be communicative and emotionally intelligent, but the guy who had me bent over is none of those things. And men are observing these things and saying, oh, motherfuckers, full of shit. We're talking out both sides of your neck because your words and your idealism are advocating for one kind of masculinity while simultaneously rewarding a different type of more traditional type of masculine thing. Because y'all not going, if you saying we're going to be with the F boys, but we want our husband to be the good guy. Yeah, you want T.D. Jason and the young girl soon. Not T.D. Jason, but I don't want me to wonder them because I'm close to the Bible, but I'm a little far removed from over this time. T.D. maybe Dr. Darius, is that what goes out of it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. T.D. Lowell. T.O. That's Uncle T.D. Child Listing. So, but men don't necessarily take the whole series either. You get what I'm saying? But y'all don't want y'all wives to be, y'all want y'all wives to be a certain type of way or different than what the whole is.