 Says animal cruelty Yeah, barbecue. Yeah, I translated that reds true animal cruelty All right, so here we are in the city. We're gonna ask people what their best argument against the veganism is Feels like the old Joey vs. the public days. What do you think about vegans? I don't know how to do it to be honest. I'm a butcher, so I'm really against them. Yeah, they're bad for business It's really bad. They're bad for humanity. Let's do it Do you know what veganism is? You don't know what being vegan is. It means when you don't eat any animal products Oh, yeah, yeah, you don't use animal products a wool and fur and leather Vegetarians only they just don't eat meat, but vegans don't use any animal products at all in their lifestyle. Yeah Yeah, that's good. Yeah, I want you to tell me a really good argument against being a vegan Yeah, why why you shouldn't people that are vegan have got like hands at the sides of my face They've got tiny little hands Tiny little hands like no muscle. I mean don't be wrong. I love a good vegan sausage roll from Gregg's But I don't know kind of meat is murder. I'm not gonna lie to you. Meat is murder. Yeah Argument against being a vegan The meat one For like years, it's like You can't hear it Do you care about animal cruelty Animal cruelty tastes good Well think about it think about it Yeah, it's just cheaper to buy chicken goons and it would be for yeah There's more choice more choice like who don't want like a chicken burger beef burger If you think it's ethical I know like obviously it's good animal over good Nando's Use your argument against animal cruelty I think it's justified to be cruel to animals because it costs a little bit more Let's just say it did cost more It's sad to pay an extra 50p so chicken didn't get My cover's been blown so you're vegan. How do you know? Yeah, yeah, what what influenced you to be vegan I've seen animals being tortured and butchered in slaughterhouses and farms and Stuff like that and it made me turn vegan. You eat birds No, like birds Do you eat birds? No, like birds, you know a chicken is a bird Chicken is a bird Do you eat birds? Yeah, yeah, I like chicken that type of bird, but you only do an extent looks I won't eat chicken with bones Do you know what I mean? No, yeah, we want it like anything we've borned on well because it reminds you that it's an animal Yeah, yeah, have you ever thought about why you eat some birds and not others? Well, I wonder what I wonder You eat chickens, but you won't like eat like I don't know like a parakeet or like a parrot or something Yeah, that's true to be fair. It's like we eat cows, but we don't eat horses You don't eat dogs. Do you know? No, no Think about it. If you put a dog in a slaughterhouse and turn them into bacon. Definitely not. Yeah, not a dog Yeah, okay, but what's the difference between a dog and a pig? I feel like pigs were raised to be made into like me Whereas dogs weren't raised dogs to be made into me Labrador German Shepherd don't eat dogs Pretty extreme if you ask me what's some Labrador mate German Shepherd What's in dogs? That make it ethical that'd be okay Some people don't mind between the both dogs were raised to be in as me then it would have been normal like a long time ago Like if people start doing it like I do do it you learn China. They have our dog farms in Korea They have dog farms. Do you think that's ethically wrong? It's the culture you can't really judge them though. Yeah, some cultures some cultures just different Well, I think that some cultures here in England is unethical. You've been conditioned, haven't you? Yeah, that's true I agree with that. I agree with that. Yeah, I agree. You've been taught something like I was Lions have adapted to eat gazelles and we've adapted to eat Chickens and sails. Well, lions are in a survival situation. Are you? I could probably live off not eating meat. Yeah, well, I have for seven years We've got like supplements and stuff. Someone ordered chicken at work the other day I literally had the bones in still and I was like, I could see a scale out of this chicken Right, so this is really weird to you know red meat like beef and stuff like a cow. It's a cow. Yeah, like cow So I don't really I don't like eating that stuff like I don't like the blood but chicken I don't mind it. I don't know why would you Sound like a real proper meat eater then no, I'd have to be a vegan fake fake meat eater Like a lion will eat like a chicken just raw Human would you eat an animal like that just rip them to shreds alive? Lions do it Lions eat people. Hey, you know that lions eat people Lions that lions have been known to hunt down people I'm just saying I'm just saying if a lion hunts down people and eats people does that mean I can hunt down people and eat people Or should I just like be ethical? I'm just asking what's ethical not what's cannibalism I'm talking about ethics Killing animals is cultural, but that doesn't mean it's ethical. Yeah, I agree, but not everyone's the same If you agree with me then that means that you should be vegan. I've tried I think like sometimes it's a good idea for a good cause But at the end of the day, I like eating meat Do you think that because you gain pleasure like taste pleasure that that justifies cutting the animals head off to eat them? Well, yes, sometimes there's a lot of animals out there So you gain like the pleasure of taste from like the suffering of the animals Have you thought about that? When I put it like that sounds pretty bad, doesn't it? It sounds bad, but yeah, it sounds bad It's because there's lots of them. So that means it's like Just because there's lots of them that means it okay to cut the head off There's lots of people around There's lots of people around does that make it okay to kill and eat people people kill people. Yeah, is it good? Is it morally good? No, but we need to feed people I don't like vegetarian stuff. I don't like vegetables as much as the people do. What do you think's in meat You can't get from a plant-based diet I've got low vitamin D. So I like I struggle with Where does vitamin D come from? Sun. Okay, and if you can't get it from the sun, you can do what? Tablets. You can take a supplement, can't you? So you don't have to be cruel to animals to get vitamin D and protein you said. You don't think protein comes from plants? Well, you can get supplemented. No, no, no. Where does protein come from? So what are humans eat? Vegetables I toughly eat salads. I'm not going to lie to you. Grains and legumes and like beans and pasta and tofu's and What if you made meat out of plants, would you eat that? I mean, I love it with vegans. Where do the animals get it from? So wait, do you think beans have protein? Beans like? Like baked beans. Do you think there's protein in beans? So like like vegans, how do you like if you didn't have protein in your diet you would die, wouldn't you? You don't think if you if you didn't get enough protein you would like start to shrivel away and die? Or you'd lose all your muscle at least? Yeah, you'd just lose your muscle. Like I said, I'm size of your wrists. Have you ever seen a vegan with muscles? No. You haven't? I don't know. I'm pretty sure. Well, we know him. Get your muscles out. How long have you been vegan? Two years. He should have shriveled away by now. I ran 100km in one go. 100km in one go? Yeah, which is like 67 miles or something like that. How long did that take? I can't remember. I'll put it up on Strava right now, but yeah. What if you treat the animals really nicely? Is it okay to cut their head off and eat them? No, it could end up like a pet then, isn't it? If you had a dog, you wouldn't chop its head off and eat it, would you? No, you won't, no. Sound logic. If you chopped a head off a dog, I'd actually cry. It sounds like you're arguing for veganism not against it. I am. Why would you not want to be a vegan? It's nice. It's nice, right, but there's to an extent. The point is, if you're against animal cruelty, right, whatever animal it is, dogs, let's just say there's a dog here being bored alive in the dog meat trade and I'm like buying that dog meat but I could easily eat a vegan burger. You'd probably think I was just cruel. I would go for that sort of vegan option. You'd think I was cruel if I chose to eat the dog meat, wouldn't you? Yeah. If you choose to eat the chicken, should I think that you're cruel? Do you know what I mean? I don't know, it's people's choice, isn't it? It's people's choice with religion and all of that. It's their choice to what they want to eat. But what if the choice has a victim? I could go up and kill a needy cat, but you would say that's morally wrong. It's a choice, it's my choice, but I'm asking what's ethical, what's a moral choice to me? I can't really judge, I don't know. I just don't want to judge it. You'd think I was cruel if I chose to eat the dog meat, even though a dog was tortured and killed. If you choose to eat the chicken, should I think that you're cruel? Yeah. You probably don't know what happens in the industry. Yeah. But now let's say I've showed you something and then you realised, and then you chose to eat the chicken, you'd be choosing to be cruel. I don't know. Put the dog in place of a chicken, put a dog in a slaughterhouse. I paid for the dog to be in the slaughterhouse, right? Because when you buy a chicken you're paying for them to be in the slaughterhouse. I pay for the dog to be in the slaughterhouse, they don't need to be, I could eat vegan, I could be a vegan. But I chose to pay for the dog to be in the slaughterhouse to eat their body when I didn't need to. Would you think that was a cruel act? Mine's just completely cruel. It's all business, isn't it? It's all money. Have you seen what happens inside of a slaughterhouse? No. Wait, wait, wait. Before you go in there to buy executed, murdered chickens, can I show you what happens inside of a slaughterhouse? Take this. It's got some documentaries in there. You should really see what happens to animals in the slaughterhouse. Joey Carbstrong. This is pretty standard. It's all committed. I don't think they'll know. Do you think they're feeling that? You don't want any? You've confused me with your argument. What is your point here? Are you a vegan or not? Are you a vegan? Yeah, I'm a vegan. Why was the point of the anti-vegan argument? Because for me, I'm trying to ask people if they've got a good argument against veganism because I haven't found one yet. I'm not a vegan. You already said you were against animal cruelty anyway, so we know that. We're Buddhist, we're Thai. You're Buddhist? Yeah, we're Buddhist. We always say that killing animals is not a good thing, but it's kind of just like a way of life. That's how people have always been eating. So sometimes we do eat vegetarian most of the time we do. Only because animal cruelty... Is it in J? Yeah, J. You have a whole month of J in Thailand. Amazing Thai vegan food. It's a good thing so that we don't really kill animals. We do respect animals, but at the end of the day, it's a way of life and we still eat meat. You think respecting animals... You think you can respect animals when you cut their head off and turn them into meat? You think that's respecting the animal? Not really. What if I gave you a choice? Respect them by cutting their head off and turning them into meat or respect them by leaving them be? Being compassionate towards animals. You can do J all the time? Yeah, we can. So why is it good to do J in Thai Buddhism? Respect because we should all love each other. Including animals? So why don't you just do that all the time? I don't know, it's just like how they've grown up. It's just used to it. But you can change, can't you? I think people change eventually whenever they choose to or whenever they feel like, but some people, they're just living the way they do. You're comfortable when you... I'm not going to lie, I am sometimes in denial when I do see it. Like slaughterhouse footage? Animal suffering? Yeah, it is pretty shit to say. It's horrible to say. Yeah, but I think most of us just live in denial. Because it's blinded. So let's just say I gave you a knife right now so stab that pig in the throat. I can't even bear to see it or hear it. I had a vegan sausage roll earlier and she loves them. I don't mind it, but at the same time though, if you don't offer it, do you know what I mean? So like if McDonald's had vegan chicken nuggets and there you'd go for that? She would deliberately... I don't like vegan stuff. I genuinely don't like it. I tried vegan stuff before and I generally don't like it. I do. I don't get why I do like it, but they don't have enough options, that's the problem. Of course you can, but at the end of the day I just made no sense at all. Basically what he's trying to say is he's a vegan. This has got places to eat. I was a vegetarian for about seven months. Obviously lockdown wouldn't refuse to buy it, do you know what I mean? So that's not my fault. I'm trying vegan stuff again, but... That's good. It's just like one of those things that don't offer enough of it. Depends where you look. There is a range, but at the end of the day there's still things that I like to mark as I don't like mushrooms. I do. Obviously that's quite popular and a lot of stuff. I eat vegan burgers all the time. See, I don't like them. Have you had a beyond burger? A what? A vegan burger. So when you go into the supermarket and you buy that meat or whatever restaurant you buy the meat you're essentially pushing the button on their execution. I know, that's true. Through supply and demand, you're paying for it. I think everyone, she's in denial. They don't want to see it. You're not in denial now. I'm not in denial now because I don't see it, but if I did, I would not eat it because I know my family growing up on a farm is killing it. That's all. Sounds like you're compassionate in your heart. You care for animals. Do you think you should be held accountable for paying for animals to be executed, tortured, put in factory farms, put in slaughterhouses? Do you think you should be held accountable morally for that? I don't know. Because you're kind of responsible for it. It's just a difficult question. I hold myself accountable for it. That's why I'm a vegan. I don't know. It takes a lot for people to go vegan. I really want some chicken. I was hoping that you wouldn't... I appreciate vegans. Some people want to save animals and they want to... I just don't want them to be abused and killed for a nugget. If you're against animal cruelty, it only makes sense that you don't pay for it. That's all. When you go in there, you're paying for the animals to be treated cruelly and killed for you. I understand that. But at the same time, they ain't supplying us enough food as vegan stuff as they should be. I think there's actually a vegan wrap in there as vegetarian wrap. For your pleasure, I will go buy the vegan wrap. Of course I will. It's for the animals' pleasure, not mine. I just personally don't like vegan stuff. I have tried it. Your voice says one thing, but your actions say another. The animals only care about your actions. I could say I love my wife, but then I go out and beat her every night. Those two things aren't in alignment. When you're a vegan, what you say and what you do and what you feel are in alignment. Now it's talking to you. I don't have much to say. This here has got a good guide in there, so it helps you how to be vegan in the UK. She was really nice. A really kind-hearted lady. I really like talking to her. I've been to Thailand for the J Festival. It's amazing food over there. So, you know, there's really no excuses. She didn't have any excuses. She wasn't saying anything silly. Some people are just in a comfort zone. They've been culturally conditioned. They don't want to change. They need to take some big shock to make that type of lifestyle change. People need to be held accountable morally for their actions. We are in every other context, but why not in the animal context when it comes to food animals? I appreciate that. Think about that when you pay for animal products. I don't have any products too, but I just like everything. See you later. Do you think that was a good interview? People see cameras, and they just like to talk to the camera. I think when people had a few drinks, they're a little bit more honest. I think they were honest. I'll let you go then. I don't want you to miss your train. I'm a vegan wrap though. I don't know. You might not. You're just telling me what I want to hear. 100% they're getting their chicken nuggets. 100%. I don't think I've ever really made an ethical decision when I've been drunk. Game over. Buy the vegan wrap. Girls, if you are watching this video, you have to watch Land of Hope and Glory. Start paying for slaughterhouses to exist. Meet and good times. How is it a good time to be executed in a slaughterhouse? It's not a good time for the animals. It might be a good time for the human beings in there. Eating the corpses, getting all the taste pleasure. You know, but... You don't see chickens, cows, fish, pigs and lambs having a good time. Unless they're on a sanctuary, of course. Red's true animal cruelty restaurant. But you know, you can always do vegan barbecue. I don't know why you can... You can do vegan barbecue. You don't have to put chopped up animal corpse on the barbecue. This has been Joey versus the public. Thanks for tuning in. We'll see you all in the next video. Peace.