 yes if you've I mean that's what the media taught me like you come up with the title first and make it like really short and snappy and fun and then you're like okay what am I gonna talk about so Francesco lock the door please so this is what I'm gonna talk about no so my name is Jalty Helmerson I come from Iceland I'm an animator bless you yes my name is Jalty Helmerson you may call me whatever you want I'm an animator from Iceland originally I've just recently moved here and I've been working as an animator for a few years and dabble with it before that so guess I show you just a little bit outdated by the way I don't have any sound how do I do the sound thing turning off the lights didn't help I guess okay oh yes headphones please my name is Michelle I just need to prove to my wife that I can act like a man and it's not about sense I don't just lie there if that's what you're thinking it's like going on a date with a chatty Cathy doll I expect to have a little string on your chest you know that I pull out and have to snap back except I wouldn't pull it out and snap it back you would I want the lights on so okay I'm gonna kind of go over a lot of different topics and the problem is I just started overloading the presentations with too many topics I could just pick one and just take a do a whole hour long presentation just on one topic but I want to tackle this also just from the perspective of somebody what that wants to get started into animation and wants to do something like this like you know not coming on this in particular but some kind of animation related stuff that's like oh that's happy and funny and it looks simple and then you start doing it and it looks like shit and then you sound like reading about animation it's like oh shit there's a lot of rules and principles and stuff and I'm here to tell you that like all this stuff is important because people started out basically as you did a long time ago and they came upon all these different hurdles and they moved past them they like a lot of trial and error of course but they came up with these principles and there's a reason for each one of each one of them now they can't totally be broken but you first have to understand why they're there and then why you would want to break them why they're there because of this thing so like great drawing by the way right there's like middle of the night real fast okay so that if you if you look at the cartoon and this applies also to filmmaking in general but I'm gonna stick to like animation it's an interplay between the brain and its inputs and whatever like we're trying to output to it now if we were to the animation in like five dimensions and ultraviolet why like that's not what the target audience is for so if I talk this is the vegetables before the candy so like this is a little bit I want to preface this by saying this is important but you know it's a wall of text so I'm just gonna briefly go over it there's a lot of stuff there they're like the brain itself is kind of this dilution bubble and it's trying to make sense of what it's seeing and hearing and all that just for for an example the area in which an eye would see totally in focus is the size of a fingernail in arms arm's length the rest is just the brain trying to make it seem like it's all in focus now when you're doing any kind of animation for example you have to kind of like at least be aware of that because that means that you can have two awesome simultaneous actions going on at the same time like on like opposite end of the screen that's just not going to register so you have to think about like a focal point is going over the screen and of course in time did it did yeah and 24 frames per second which is kind of arbitrary it it the 24 frames per second came because of the end of the silent era because before that audio wasn't really that important and the brain kind of it can adjust to different frame rates and they used to have a hand cranked film projectors and they would slow down and speed up throw anything from like 22 frames per second to 26 and then when the audio came and had to be hooked up to it the brain wasn't that forgiving like stuff had to like it couldn't go up and down in frequency or whatever so they just settled on 24 frames per second so it is kind of arbitrary but that's like the goal we've set ourselves to at least learn the trade now you could wrap this up to like you know 60 frames per second or whatever and it's not going to get lost on the brain because it can it can cognitively perceive different frames per seconds up to like hundred and fifty it's gonna depend on the person of course but it's the point is it's not a waste everything above hundred fifty yeah that's probably going to be a waste paradox that's one of my favorite things it's the it's the tendency in the brain to see to create a pattern out of random visual or auditory random stimuli so this this also applies to other senses of course but it's it's more profound or big in in in the vision and in hearing like phantom cell phone ringing you know that like there's actually a study on that but like people will like think that the cell phone is vibrating when it's not and it was just because like the brain is just hooked up to that area so much and trying to be really sensitive to the thing that whenever there's any kind of small vibration it's like oh yeah that that's definitely a call that's my girlfriend okay so and that applies to a lot of different things regarding like audio or video for example when you when you draw like two two spots and then a line we're gonna see kind of a face out of it and then we can add the complexity to it we can go all the way to like really hyper realistic eyes and a mouth shape and a nose and everything but it's the brain doing the hybrid lifting I mean that it's kind of it's just a drawing it's a flat drawing it's there's not a person there but it's telling us that there's a person there this also applies to other things like you know seeing Jesus on a toast so you know like you know take that with a grain of salt could be a good thing bad thing I don't know with audio it's really normal for us in our environment is that video always I mean of course light travels faster than speed of sound so so if there's any kind of lag going on the audio has to be lagging you can't have the audio going through before so if you ever have that like if you have that ever have that moment you're editing your animation or doing something or lip-syncing or whatever and you're like okay it's like that sound is going like half that frame you know it's better to make the audio lag not the not the animation itself there's a fussy line where the brain is like okay like if I'm one frame behind the audio it's still gonna be like this brain is still gonna mask that and it's gonna feel like oh there's no lag at all two frames it's gonna be kind of iffy three frames for me is like way too much for normal people it can't go max three frames anything about that I mean it's just insane I mean that people won't stand for it I'm just gonna keep going there's a lot of stuff I got I got a push through push through so this is what I want to this is one of the talks and how I want I want to talk about a little bit so I got the cookie flex rig courtesy of plenty of cookie well come so this is the way the the the model of the rig came to me just like if it's the default values and I had a lot of problem I see with brand new animators is that they just start using it right away and take this as if it's a relaxed post but it isn't it's it's the post that the modeler did to do a better topology and then the rigor did that made kind of sense you know it's like regarding the rig so what I would recommend just when you're starting out just move everything slightly I mean you can see like I'm relaxing the face a little bit I'm moving down the eyebrows a little bit in the eyelids just don't put your starting point in this weird tea post thing like start start off with the resting pose and that like that kind of fits the character and then go from there a lot of stuff I'm gonna talk about it's really general there's a bell curve and there's exceptions to everything so just have that caveat when you ask it like when you start asking questions like well everything you said is not valid because of this one exception yeah there's there's exceptions yes I know so what I want to demonstrate a little bit about facial expressions is the rookie errors the new beers and I'm totally guilty of this when I was starting out in animation it's facial it's like not really adjusting to what the anatomy underlying anatomy is and doing just these crazy facials that are not gonna register properly and like it's hard for humans to actually mimic them I had some volunteers to work on that if that slide ever pops up yep there we go and back and forth there we go okay so I just really wanted to show that slide that's the volunteers adorable adorable okay okay here we go brand new computer and it's lacking like hell good stuff good stuff okay so with the first one can anybody like tell me what's wrong with the first one looks looks normal yeah well the the eyebrows should be connected that's the thing the underlying anatomy is that the eyebrows can't be disconnected like that there's just no way and it's it's one of those things where like people just love like breaking them without thinking about like the underlying anatomy to it and it it feels weird and adorable faces I know I know so super happy but the eyebrows are come like they're they're really high I could have even pushed it further and you can see the the like bottom half of the face all the flesh that's there let's say you have a smile and you push up those those mouth corners that's gonna push up the flesh in the cheekbones like surrounding the cheekbones that's gonna push up the lower eyelid there's it's really hard to mimic this or like you have a heavy smile but your eyelids are really low that there's no way of doing it I keep seeing this okay angry so the end of the eyelid and that the eyebrows they don't they barely move so if you go up and down like crazy expressions they barely move like a millimeter so you have to and by the way that Rick didn't allow me to do that so I had to I had to cheat my way into that funky little thing also the like yeah the rest of the face is kind of weird but it this is a rookie mistake I see all the time you know cute here's another kind of smug face there's like it's it's better than the other one but there's still an underpinning problem with it the problem is that if you look at the top half of the face and then lower half the top face is going in one direction and the lower half is going in the same direction and it's really hard to do that like you could do it but you would have to put effort into it what's more natural is that if one half here like it's going down the other don't take pictures the other half is gonna push up against it so it's gonna squish this half and the other half is gonna come up so if I just show you like really quickly like because these are fairly similar I just did like a generic one so the the top ones are the ones that are kind of bad like rookie mistakes and the lower ones are ones that I did that are like kind of kind of adequate and you can see the different things that are wrong with what sorry beer coming up so you see like for example if you want to squish one half of the face the other one kind of has to compliment compliment it a little bit it if you try it at home I know you're all gonna do it like when you come home here in the mirror you're just gonna look at yourself and try that all that stuff so pushing through pushing through blanks blanks blanks really important because eyes the brain will perceive eyes as a focal point so when it's like going over like you're you're staging or whatever it's gonna hop between the eyes of the characters so you can use the eyes to direct people to like direct the focal point do a lot of different stuff now as I said before this is in general terms so I'm gonna try to be kind of general this could easily be like a five-hour lecture just on this because there's a lot of different ways like different reasons why blink may deviate from the vanilla blink but we're gonna have to ignore that you know like we're just gonna have to power through and look at a vanilla blink vanilla is an awesome flavor by the way I don't like how they use that as a like oh not flavored vanilla is a pretty decent flavor like vanilla walk cycle so here's I kind of like to Campbell about why I was recording him because I wanted I wanted a really good natural blink and if you tell a subject that oh I'm gonna record your blink they're a huh okay okay they're gonna be really super focused on the thing and you're not gonna get a natural blink so this is even like he's probably got a couple of cups of coffee in him so it's like maybe two or three frames faster than it then it kind of maybe should be consult your doctor yes so if it if I broke it down a little we break it down a little bit you see the first oh I have this thing here whoo whoa I'm very ready so the on the first frame it's that's just a starting position and then there's just a slight little anticipation it's not really like going anywhere it's just this slight little anticipation before the big move now here's the first frame that actually moves at all and then it's just starting slamming down and hitting really hard if you just look at the overall thing I mean you can see that like here's here's where the top eyelid is going all the way down the first half is way quicker than the second half that's because and if you were to do it yourself and imagine it imagine the top eyelid being really heavy so it's like it really easy to get get it down but it's kind of hard to pull it back up and that's also why it like kind of tidders at the end this is a really important like cushioning at the end I am kind of all just focusing on the top eyelid because the lower one and this is kind of being generous right here and wow so the lower eyelid doesn't really come up that much and depending on your animation style and everything of course that's gonna be completely up to you now but try to mimic that wow that's a really bad resolution but try to mimic that and this is just with the eyelets there's nothing else I'm not animating anything else this is just the normal vanilla blade giving a slightly faster so here you can see the just a slight little difference between only animating the eyelets and then animating just a little bit the flesh around the eyelets just to make it feel a little bit more alive and I'm sure you can't tell the details but even like the corners of the nose and mouth are coming slightly up and there's a lot of tiny details there that keep it just slightly more alive and because it's vanilla it's not as profound but if you're gonna do some wacky bigger thing then it's gonna show up and it's gonna be completely dead if you just disconnect that one muscle from everything now here's how the professionals do it of course this is even like I would say the this is a little bit more relaxed than a vanilla but I was just going through random trailers and grabbing whatever you know in trailers they don't really like show somebody calm and blinking it's like come into our movie yes so I broke it down and you can see that it's like it's pretty much the same principles it's going really fast down like there's a slight anticipation in the beginning don't slams right down there's actually a kind of a cushioning thing going on where the lower eyelid is coming up the the top one goes down and slams it down just a little bit which is a cool effect so here when you break it down it's pretty much what I what I explained so I'm just gonna go ahead and move on so this is me replicating it a little bit now it's roughly 15 frames I would say vanilla blink or a regular human maybe like 12 13 frames kind of depends on the situation a lot of factors and here we see a lot of different blinks all in the same within the same frame and they're slightly different every single one of them depending on the character on the mood on their motivation but I'm only focusing on the main character there now his eyes in this cartoon style his eyes are huge which means the eyelid has to travel way further for you really it's gonna be really it's gonna be more prominent so this is me replicating it and like I could have might be open the eye a little bit more in the beginning but because it's like it's super fast and you can tell like it's going up it's way faster than it maybe should be but that's the style and you you have to kind of think of this as it's even going faster as it is because of the size of the eyes so it's it has to travel a lot further and now we got stop motion animation this is 24 frames per second I'm so impressed 24 frames per second if you've ever tried stuff motion animation 12 frames per second is a nightmare and like it's a straight ahead animation which means it's not like you can like do a little thing and then scroll back and fix things it's just straight ahead and if somebody hits your lamp start all over again like three days of work all all yeah ruin so this is really fast super fast and the way he goes down there's no anticipation at all it just starts from the resting position and then pops down seven frames total so this is gonna break the projector this is everything next to each other in my head this didn't look that creepy and then you know wow okay so you can see the like the regular blink up like a real one then the toy story one like the from the Pixar Sony pictures animation and then paranormal from Leica and you can see that like there's similar pattern going on if they're not just like shutting it and opening it like there's there's similar patterns going on and of course they're breaking the rules to certain degree but there's something there that they're like mimicking from real life this is I wanted to take this completely separately because I found this kind of fascinating this is like old-school animation cell-drawn animation and these are animated on tubes which means that for every keyframe in 24 frames per second every keyframe holds for two frames which is kind of same and it's also a double blink so it's it's like there as I said before like there are different variations there's a half blink and a double blink and all kinds of different variations but just to show that there is something else different going on this is on twos 24 frames per second and you can see that like this is kind of vastly different so one of the things Disney does sometimes is double blink by the way is kind of a caricature of a more feminine blink every do a again it feels just slightly more feminine not sure why maybe it's a feedback loop maybe we saw it so many times on in cartoons or whatever but when it goes down it's having a hard time going over the iris so it like starts going over the iris yes remember the iris was like both of the pupil is built bulging out of the eyeball a little bit so it slows a little bit down and then puff back down and I've seen a lot of animators like old-school animators doing that and even when it does that sometimes they do one frame where the top eyelid is going down and it pushes the pupil a bit down so it like it pushes it the character to look down for one frame and then comes back up normally but it's a cool effect I mean it's not from real life but it's like exaggerating a little bit what's going on in real life okay I'm not going to cover lip-syncing because that became just that would have been five six hours of talking about one subject but I did record this so I want to show you guys and I did do one there was one mistake I did so here is Campbell and I mean like okay you you see the sentence it's kind of nonsensical to a degree but you see the P and Pi and M in mom so if you just look at it hi mom so the whole sound it's really pronounced and like you can really it really sells that the audio and the video is syncing and that that character is talking now what he's saying isn't this that was a lie what he's actually saying is this now like I took me a couple of hours but I came up with a sentence that kind of made sense but at the same exact mouth shapes what I screwed up is and that's why I kind of wanted to show you guys but it has exactly the same mouth shapes on every single level except for in Icelandic our V sounds are really soft really really soft and in English you have a really hard V sound so to me the V here and the F here had exactly the same mouth shape but then when I studied it a little bit further I was like nope I'm doing it wrong yes my accent is killing it yeah that had to happen I'm sorry Campbell so this is what I really want to talk about animation smears multiples so raise your hands who's heard of this before okay so they so back in the day in old school cell drawn animation they used to fake motion blur because when stuff is happening so fast that the eye kind of can't perceive it what should be happening is motion blur but back in those days you couldn't have motion blur so you had to just kind of fake it and this is not seen by the eye but it's perceived by that so it's like you it feels it the viewer feels it it doesn't really see it and it's it's the most fun thing ever your animation has to be actually good to begin with and you have to know what you're doing to start doing this you can't just willy-nilly like or everything smearing it gets kind of wacky but it's it's fascinating to see how like even in modern cinema you still see animation studios trying to do this like with a Lego movie like you can see like there he's multiple arms but when he's doing it you can't really perceive it you just know that his arms he doesn't have multiple arms he has just two pairs of arms like one pair of arm and he's flinging them all over the place so this was a tiny little demonstration I did yesterday because I thought it would give me different results this was kind of unexpected so let's say you have one ball one red ball and it's traveling from position one two and then three I just placed three balls there to show the position because you know this is what I was expecting the computer just kind of if you just if you just rendered the the number two position by the way this is what I was expecting the computer kind of just averaging out and and kind of predicting the future here like it's telling me what's gonna happen to the future before it's happened what I wanted was this this is this is closer to an animation smear it's kind of more blurry it it doesn't predict the future so some if I'm gonna animate somebody hitting some something and it's almost there but like one frame before the impact emotion blur starts on the subject that he's about to hit that's giving away the joke that's giving away what's about to happen and then the thing the impact and like as an animator that's I mean I'm I'm going frame by frame spending all that time and effort into selling that hit and then the computer at the end kind of destroys it for me that's kind of sour yeah so that's what I was expecting bunches to do this is what he did I don't know what the hell is going on and you know I'm not complaining I mean I would happily just go frame by frame in blurring it myself it's fine but I don't I don't understand what's going on so this like if I if I render all these balls this is what I get by the way Paridolia that thing if you see a like a face in that that's Paridolia nose and yeah all right so animation smears and how I've used it poor little guy there's a lot of effects going on so there's a lot of like dust particles and fancy glowing stuff going on and just a slight motion blur thing on top of everything so I have like a play blast just to show you a little bit more better what's going on I mean it's still kind of but a little bit better so if I break it a bit down you can see what I'm doing it's the it's like the first Newton law whatever like an object will want to just stay in its position unless it's moved upon or whatever so when I'm moving like you're grabbing the body and you're moving it really fast I'm delaying the head so a head kind of wants to stay there so I'm kind of stretching from where it used to be it's really fun so much fun but it goes by so fast you spent like days doing this and then oh oh it came and went and everybody else the story just continued so yeah so it's Halloween if you guys were wondering about my outfit so by the way that that that bus it's Intel I was like that I had that idea of having I mean it's a fairly old joke I mean I do done it and make it done a lot of places but I just don't let it's Intel it was missing the most important part so I just it's midnight I might as well just creepy weird I know but it's fine so if you look at it again and look that moment when he goes under the window it's mere it's really clear okay now if I break that down a little bit you can see what the hell is going on and I'm just like I ripped that guy and I didn't necessarily recommend to be able to do that but when I did it I was just grabbing whatever bone I could to try to make something smear and look like it's smearing and there's no motion blur at all there's no motion blur applied it's looking really cute here like right at the end adorable so this is like one of the things I kind of want to leave with the experience of learning a craft any craft doesn't matter what painting animating wood carving or whatever there's a certain amount of experience like in the beginning you don't know anything and then slowly and steadily you become more experienced you learn a little bit more you read some books you see some tutorials and your confidence rises of course yes but it's not gonna be it's gonna be kind of jagged because you're gonna have good days bad days you're gonna get stuff but not quite and so like level of confidence and expertise is gonna slowly and steadily build up so like if it just took an average slowly steadily build up that's not what humans do this is what humans do this is called the Dunning-Kruger effect and it's been well researched they it's they published this in 1999 they won the Nobel Prize at 2000 because this was so hilarious yeah so you know nothing and then you learn a little bit and it's like boom confidence just through the roof and then you start learning a little bit more it's like I know nothing and you just break down break down break down and then finally at some point you start building it up but it never really reaches the peak that you started off with now what I want to just emphasize with this is like at least they like be aware of I mean I'm totally guilty of this everybody's pretty much guilty of this when you're going here try to stay humble and like realize there's people that have been doing this before you and they probably have something interesting to say and something you could learn from them and just try to curb your enthusiasm I think that would be the expression literally and that way when when this fall wow I'm shaky here we go when this fall starts when the drop starts you can't you like you won't be asked the skirts because you realize it's gonna happen that way at least it's gonna yeah the blow will be slightly milder parting thoughts yes learn all this shit read all the books and you know and break the rules of course but like test it out and understand why the rules are there okay rules kind of a harsh term principles maybe rules of thumb something like that you know don't do that I've done that when I was starting out it was like you know you start making something and it's kind of crappy and it's like oh it's a style no it's not you have asked it this is really important also give like learn how to give and take feedback of course taking feedback is hard and you have to learn and all that stuff like talk don't take it personally it's not attacking you it's just like it's just kind of and also they are like there's bad way to give feedback like I hate it it's it's it's pathetic thank you yes like wow not from now on I will be better it's not a good way so giving feedback also helps you learn a lot because it helps you hone your like your skills of critiquing stuff and when you're critiquing other people stuff that means you're you're not as discreet like you're a little bit more disconnected to it so we can see it like from a fresh perspective that also helps when you're critiquing your own stuff because that totally applies to your own work you'll learn a lot from other people's mistakes that basically what I'm trying to say Wow okay yeah thing that all the stuff you're gonna do in the beginning are it's gonna be shit as I mean that's just a given that's in any craft it's gonna be shit but it's gonna be slowly and steadily a little bit better and there I mean there's no light at the end of the tunnel it's just tunnels it's harsh I know when you look back like two months like stuff I did two months ago I'm like that's shit like I could do it what's better now and then I strive for that and then two months later I'm like that's shit so it's just a given you're gonna go through that whole procedure but don't think like wow I'll make it to like this level and then I'm golden like no no it's no it's you know it's but it's good to have at least that mindset of like always striving for something better or whatnot but just keep that in mind think a little bit about like the whole output input thing because if you're doing stuff that's like oh you guys are conformists like you're not already enough like you want to you're just copying Disney like you you want to go way further outside the box and then you start doing stuff that just doesn't make any sense and it's not gonna be perceived by the viewer that's I mean that's like keeping your mind so open it falls out you know the this craft is highly dependent on like unless you want to be that that hermit dudes living in a cave just doing everything by yourself it highly depends on other people giving you feedback learning from them and them learning from you so you know try to not have an ego so like I've seen studios that have like you know all forsake all egos like as you walk through these doors whatever they phrase it better I know and yeah try to enjoy it it's it's not gonna be enjoyable all the time that like you're gonna have to you know miss maybe a party or a birthday or like any kind of thing that really resembles for social life but it's still it's fun it's fun yeah that's it questions questions earlier talk about books can we come can you recommend one yeah okay this is gonna be a cliche of course but illusion of life by Frank and Ollie for the two of the old nine old men from Disney I highly recommend that just to give it like the it's more of it's less about technique more about like the history of the craft of animation but it's a really good foundation to go from that way you have at least an understanding when you go through the principles the animator survival survival kit by Richard Williams is really good and I highly recommend going through 11 second club going there and looking at the e-critiques because they're like maybe they take 20 minutes or an hour or whatever but it's somebody from the field that's really good like working at Pixar or Disney or whatever and they're critiquing really much an amateur and seeing like pointing out all the mistakes the amateur does like positively of course and like you know making suggestions what they could improve on but just looking at that and learning from that that's really helpful I highly recommend that thank you now it's on the internet I'm drinking apple juice like the last one the last clip in your so I I don't do it personally but I would highly recommend people do it I don't do it personally because like I I kind of did it with you with 11 second club and also with went through animation mentor back in the day and there was a lot of community going on there but I I do have like a number of people that I that are good friends of mine that are really skilled animators so I can trust them and how to give me good feedback so but like if you're starting out and you don't have anybody like that then it's still kind of good to get feedback from people if you you have friends that are assholes just don't take more that much. Thank you. Anyone? Anything? About the suit? Nothing? Oh yes. Here a director. I never asked you but have you ever worked with mocap motion capture? No no but good question though regarding it overall it I've heard I've listened to a lot of interviews with like really experienced animators working on like avatar and just different types of stuff that requires motion capture and the thing is like the the PR team for the the studio wants to well not the studio the publisher wants to kind of give that impression that oh it's all just recorded and the animators barely have to do anything and even like any circus I'm looking at you on the internet he's calling like animators working on his stuff digital makeup artists and I've I'm there no way like the the thing is the animators take that footage and look at it as reference like three three dimensional reference but it's still reference and then starts from scratch and then make their own decisions now there are some companies that like like gaming companies that kind of take the motion capture data and then just try to work with it a little bit and try to like do the best they can but if it's high-end like movie production Hollywood production they're gonna look at it as reference I know they did that with avatar I had listened to an interview with the guy was like well you know I just like I looked at all the nice set it to the side and started working like I need to capture the face like the there was no thing for the face or anything I just looked at the footage and I like you know what would I do in that position what's the character going through this motivation and and just follow that just basic principle of animation thank you for your talk how can to the animation help us improve our 3d there we go sorry how can look into the animation with 3d animation oh a lot a lot so there kind of should be no difference at the at the final output you know what I mean so it's it's exactly the same principles so the difference is you like what what is helpful is that the consistency of the character is there because it's already a 3d rig and you like when you're drawing it's really it's really hard to go through the model sheets and just make sure that the proportions of the head is always correct you don't want to have this wacky move but you still want to feel like it's still Donald Duck or whatever with 3d it has that consistency but that freedom of doing something wacky gets kind of lost especially if your rigs that only allow certain certain things to happen like that's why I I kind of stopped having I'm like clicking buttons in blender doing this like limiting limiting rotation limiting scale or or whatever because you never know like when you come to that moment and you just want to break the arm just a little bit it's only going to be for that one frame but it's going to help out so much so I have to like you know if I locked everything down I have to go back to the to the original character file unlock lock everything but treats I mean when you reach a certain level you're you're just kind of treating every frame as a painting and you're cheating stuff towards the camera so what should not happen is that you animate the stuff and then you're like well that animation is great but like I'm just gonna move the camera on the other side that that doesn't work because you did everything like the silhouette is really clear like towards the camera and like a lot of cheating stuff like for example in any and every 3d movie where I'm over here and the staging is always like I'm kind of facing you guys and there's an object like over there I'm not looking at it because if I'm looking at it you're gonna miss my face so what they do is I'm looking over there ice are kind of looking over there but you're gonna kind of perceive it as I'm looking over there so you're kind of cheating it they have a really hard time when they're like the the Disney and the Pixar folks are making these dolls like finding Nemo doll and because they've been cheating the pupils so much when you buy like a doll it's like wow it looks nice from that one angle and then all the other guys are like really like cross-eyed and crazy yeah that I feel sorry sometimes for the toy makers that has to be like oh yes I can make it happen sure yeah thank you do you think that your job as an animator will be different for stereoscopic 3d oh yeah definitely stereoscopic 3d is awesome it does put a lot of stress on the animator because now he has to like kind of when he's cheating stuff to the camera yeah you have to like okay you have to remember of course to you know maintain the form in 3d but sometimes and I did it like a little bit with the with the agent dude I mean I was just breaking his arm and putting it in place but that for that split second it was fine it's 2d it's flat but yeah it does put a little bit more pressure on the animator to like cheat it but look at it also in 3d and make sure that the cheating thing isn't like popping or or doing something weird the like the arm isn't just going towards the camera and going back in one frame or whatever yeah would I recommend an acting class to an animator yes definitely I myself every now and then go to like improv class and like a free drawing class I've only gotten once but I've gone yes I did attend yeah but yeah yeah it's it's highly recommended for any animator to to go to acting classes improv classes drawing classes dancing for example it they don't need to be good dancers or good actors or anything but they need to understand the fundamentals of it and if they want to do any kind of reference which is which are highly recommend because on that level at least you have something to build upon like something real to build upon yeah yes go there yes okay how long does it take to make this kind of animation presented which one the agent to the yes yeah yeah that took so it was a little bit of a trial and error because I was rigging him and then animating and like oh there's weird stuff with the rig and I went back to fix it and I went so there was a little bit of a back and forth so it's kind of hard to cut it down but I think maybe seven eight days or something like that and that's with the polish the polish phase actually like his thing here like the skirt or whatever you call it on what you call it that had to be like kind of hand animated frame by frame just to make sure make sure that it was good enough because like doing the rig so it would like follow the thing and be really cool whatever that would have taken the same amount of time kind of but you would still need to tweak it so I was out I'll just go frame by frame and tweak it yes and in in all this frame by frame precision I wanted to ask how do you work with particular simulations for example within this smoke generated during the hitting very fast do you as well try to animate to this or is it just happen without that was Andy that was Andy but all check what up you collaborate with him to you some instructions we were I expect from this smoke to happen or you just leave it to him so the deadline was insane when we were doing that it was insane it was the it was last Blender conference and we were doing it while we were at the conference I would insane but the only back and forth was that he added this awesome smoke and everything and I was like Andy I spent all this time on the smears and we can't see them so he like okay but took them down a little bit thank you yeah that was the extent of it but yeah I know what you mean and usually there's there's somebody kind of after me because I'm not a specialist in like effects or anything like that there's somebody that will be behind me on the pipeline that will go through that and I may maybe make some suggestions like what I'm thinking about the scene and then he'll come up with something and give feedback but it's gonna be a collaboration definitely thank you yes worries okay thank you