 Okay, welcome everyone to this so as linguistics webinar. Our speaker today is Adrian Sakeba, who is working on a PhD in linguistics at the University of California in Santa Barbara, and is also a member of the indigenous group known as Pueblo. Naturally, her research focuses on the Zuni language, but as she has interest in various disciplines of linguistics, including language documentation and description, applied linguistics, language acquisition, sociocultural linguistics, language revitalization and reclamation. The material she'll be sharing with us today is part of an article that's going to be published soon in language. So later this year you'll have a chance to read the full version of this work in print. And today you'll get sort of a sneak preview of what's going to be in that aspect of Adrian's work and a chance to interact in the question and answer section. So Adrian, thank you for taking the time to prepare a presentation for us and share that work with us and we'll look forward to hearing what you have to share. Great, thank you Joey. Yeah, so I'm going to go ahead and get started about how I'm going to start is, well first by acknowledging where I am currently at and in a form of a Latin acknowledgement. So I am currently located in Albuquerque, New Mexico. So that is not the capital of the state, it's about an hour south of Santa Fe. And it's also about like two and a half hours east of Zunio Pueblo where my family is from. So I want to acknowledge the, the San Mexico is Pueblo land around Albuquerque. It is close to the San Diego Pueblo language speakers as well as the Santa Ana Pueblo, Keras language speakers. And I want to show, just to give some points, my Zoom background is of the International Balloon Fiesta that takes place in Albuquerque. Usually every year in October, obviously didn't happen last year, but they were able to put it on this year at the beginning of the month and in the background you can see the balloons and some of Sandia Mountains. So yeah, I wanted to start out with that. I also want to, I guess, begin by giving a little bit more introduction to myself as well. So as Joey mentioned, my name is Adrienne Secua. I am a PhD Elanguistic student at UC Santa Barbara. I, my tribal affiliation, I guess the one that I identify most with is with Zunio Pueblo, because that's how I was raised with my maternal family. And I, so that does, my linguistic journey began with hearing or, you know, knowing that another language other than English was spoken in the household. And also, you know, after taking kind of that intro to linguistics course and undergrad, seeing how language shift is impacted my family and our language, especially with the intergenerational language loss. So that kind of motivated me to begin my linguistic journey as someone who wanted to learn more about their language and wanted to be able to learn skills to be able to help either speak it myself or to help keep it spoken in the community. These people I will, I refer to as language warriors. So there might be some in the audience as well. So I began my linguistics journey at the University of Arizona in their Native American languages and linguistics program, their NAMA program. It's a program for community members for who want to work on their own language, who want to learn various skills, not necessarily just linguistic skills, analytical linguistic skills for their language work. So I, with that program, you start out with the, in the summer, and you start out by attending the American Indian Language Development Institute, which is an 42 year old Institute based out of the University of Arizona. And it's an Institute dedicated to providing critical training to strengthen efforts to revitalize and promote the use of Indigenous languages across generations. So within this program, you know, I started out with Aldi, they are heavily focused, as I said, on kind of language teaching, language pedagogy and everyone there has to produce a language immersion lesson that they teach every, teach at the ending of the kind of a closing program. So having that foundation of language pedagogy to that begin, that was a part of my linguistics journey has been very foundational to how I approach language research and to working with communities as well. So also as a part of my time at Arizona, I took a lot of classes in their language reading and culture program. Now it's called the Teaching, Learning and Social and Cultural Studies program. And it was there that I was, I'm going to see if I can share a screen now that I was exposed to these, to me, critical texts that has shaped my use as a researcher, as they emphasize that Indigenous research involves and serves Indigenous peoples. So I emphasize or wanted to highlight these books or these authors, these texts in particular, starting with Decolonizing Methodologies. So Professor, this is a very influential book that has been, that globally is very popular, first published in 1999, second edition in 2012. Professor Smith is a Māori scholar from New Zealand. The second one, Indigenous Methodologies by Professor Kovac, who is a Plains, Cree and Saltole, sort of famous pronounced that one, Saltole First Nations Scholar from Canada. And the second one, Indigenous Research Methodologies by Professor Chalisa, who is a Bantu scholar from Botswana. So I highlight and emphasize these texts first because these are Indigenous women and as an Indigenous myself, someone of role models, to me, Shiros, if you would say. So I include their relations and where they're from to highlight the global reach that their work has had on Indigenous scholars like myself. But also by highlighting their global influence, I hope to show that these methods can also be applicable to diverse global contexts. So kind of continuing on with another aspect of my linguistic journey is, so as a language learner, I want, I still want to and want to, I still want to learn more about the Morpho syntax of the Zuni, the Zuni language, which is an isolate language and doesn't have a lot of documentation, especially current documentation. And for me, I thought a field methods course was necessary to learn about like analyzing language structures and descriptive linguistics. So there was, during my time at Arizona, there was a field methods course in the course catalog. But it wasn't offered during my time there. I wasn't able to participate in a field methods course until after I entered the PhD program at UCSB. And it was after my first year that I went to the Linguistic Society of America Linguistic and Biennial Institute that they have on odd years at various US institutions. So I took my first field methods course at the 2017 Institute in Lexington, Kentucky, and then kind of moved right into a year long field methods course that my department offers at UCSB. So a year long, that's we are on the quarter system. So three quarters, 30 weeks of field methods course, which is for my research is a long, a long course to most courses are either just kind of a one semester, yet not super not the whole year for the most part from what I found. So also at this time, in 2017, I also became involved with a NSF, a National Science Foundation funded project titled Expanding Linguistic Science by Broadening Native American Participation, the co-pIs on that grant are Dr. Wesley Leonard and Dr. Amiga Leucanik, both indigenous scholars themselves. Dr. Leucanik at that time was my mentor and roommate, our housemate at UCSB. So it worked out in that sense. And with Dr. Leonard, not too far from us in Riverside, California, we're based in Santa Barbara at that time. So the goals of this project or was to are still to kind of increase participation of indigenous peoples within the discipline and at the Linguistic Society of America annual meeting, developing and promoting the colonial strategies to better incorporate indigenous needs and values about language into linguistic science, and also creating a space for indigenous peoples to share information and knowledge. So yeah, so becoming involved with that program or that grant effort or project, and then also taking the year long field methods course kind of put me in two different spaces, head spaces in terms of research. But with the field methods course, I felt that the Western approaches to research and collaboration are the norm of our linguistic fieldwork training, which motivated me to examine on a larger scale how students of linguistics are trained to conduct linguistic fieldwork. And this examination is discussed in my upcoming paper, which Joey mentioned at the beginning as well. And I will give a brief overview of that. As I also mentioned, it's slated to be published, I believe in the December issue. And I think it will be open access. I will give that permission. I feel they ask. So yeah, it's titled Re-Managing the Current Practice of Field Linguistics, The Colonial Considerations. And this examination, it's definitely just focus kind of has a US focus, I would say, especially when it comes to the universities that I looked at. How I approach this research is through a critical discourse analysis lens, in which I collected field methods course descriptions from course catalogs and also other texts from department websites that reflected the department's stance on language documentation and description and linguistics fieldwork. So in total, I looked at 59 programs and US universities. I also developed a survey using Google Forms. And this was sent out and ministered to professors and instructors of field methods courses and produced a mixed method analysis in my paper. I didn't have a whole lot of responses, but I was able to get 21. I also continued looking at texts, but in these texts, these texts are filled linguistic volumes and handbooks. I can't remember, I think it's like nine that I have listed on here, but starting with Samaritan in 1967 with, I believe it's the most recent one that I, to my knowledge, in 2018 by Meakin's et al. So through this, I'm not going to go over through a lot of what the paper says. I'll give you the chance to read that all when it's out. But I mean, just to kind of share some of the major findings that this examination reveals is that there is a definitely within linguistic fieldwork training. There's a still heavy emphasis on traditional elicitation techniques for data collection. Collaboration is discussed in terms of producing language materials, language materials in the Boazin triad trilogy sense. There's a kind of that dictionary grammar and texts. And also that there's a minimal reference to just kind of collaboration in general and in any of the tax fill-up courses, department websites, handbooks, etc. Another major critical finding was a lack of in-depth attention to ethical concerns. And my focus or when I thought about ethical concerns was definitely kind of human factors. And this, once again, mentioned discussing community or collaborative relationship building, which is key to working with indigenous peoples, in my opinion. And also that speakers are heavily viewed as simply sources of information as a means to an end when it comes to a linguistic fieldwork training. So I'm going to transition now to discussing the international decade of indigenous languages objectives and will attempt to connect them to indigenous research and also kind of go over or explain a little bit more of what indigenous research methods is and I guess features of it, what it can look like. So I, yes, I'm going to start with this. These objectives were discussed and developed at this high level event that took place at the Los Pinos Cultural Complex within the Chapel to Peck Forest in Mexico City and the end of February in 2020. So and hence that's the name of why I believe that they're calling it the Los Pinos Declaration, making a decade of action for indigenous languages. I included the site and where I found this or this information. And I'm not going to necessarily include all of the objectives. I'm definitely included the ones that I felt pertain to language research and linguistics. So, yeah, just to put a disclaimer on that. This document kind of starts out with this, with stating the principles for enacting or promoting and implementing the objectives for the decade of action. So it starts out with this key principle of nothing for us without us. Focusing on the centrality of indigenous peoples. So to me that that's already kind of aligns with what indigenous research is. And I bolded the parts that reflected characteristics of an indigenous research approach, reflect the insights and values of indigenous peoples, their identities and traditional election systems and cultures, and also the effective inclusive participation of indigenous peoples in consultation, planning and implementation of processes from the start of any development initiative. So the nothing for us without us is also aligned with another characteristic or feature that of indigenous research, and that is, which is that of relational accountability. So this concept of relational accountability is discussed by, I forget his exact affiliation, but First Nations scholar Wilson, who who who discusses it as an as an obligation in the research relationships, being accountable to all of your relations. So not necessarily just humans. So people in communities, but also to their languages, to the environment, to the land, to the cosmos, and also to indigenous ideologies. So this concept of relational accountability is also discussed, discussed in this recent chapter by scholars, fast and Kovac. And it was also framed as an obligation or responsibilities. For these scholars, these, this obligation means knowing community, knowing self, and being aware of practices that can impede upon or nourish the community researcher relationship. So knowing community, they discuss this in terms of knowing protocols, community, community protocols. But also stressing that it's dependent on local contexts. So every, every community, every context might be different. So they, they highlight the protocol of introducing oneself in indigenous context includes acknowledging relations. So definitely, you know, within, in my experience, just to give a little bit more info about my positionality, I forgot to mention this up in the beginning. So I, you know, I didn't mention that my my maternal grandparents moved from a Zuni Pueblo to Denver, Colorado, so New Mexico and Colorado is just right kind of the next day on top of it. And it's about a 10 to 12 hour drive from Denver to Zuni. But my grand, my maternal grandparents were relocated there in 1964, 1965. And this was part of a bigger, bigger government, the Indian Relocation Act, and an assimilation policy had meant to, you know, get have government assistance to be able to move and obtain training, kind of vocational training, and live in urban cities. So I, because of that, I grew up in Denver, I didn't grow up in Zuni, I grew up always going back and forth in the summers, going for ceremonies, both summer and winter. So yes, there is definitely a noticeable kind of insider, I feel an insider outsider feel when I go back to the reservation sometimes because why I look like I like I'm obviously from there, when I start talking, it's immediately know that I'm not necessarily from there because I don't have the accent. But and that's the case where I have to introduce myself, I had to learn how to introduce myself with in Zuni, like acknowledging who my relatives are like who my grandparents are. And that's that kind of I guess gave me or I guess credentials or made me legitimize my, my, my status in some way is being able to do that. So that that is the an example of a protocol that you within a digital context, you have to kind of acknowledge your relations of who you are in that community and who you who who you're related to in that community. It's also you also kind of may see this in academic context too, when indigenous scholars introduce themselves, they some they will include their kinship or clan or where they're from. So you also kind of saw an example of what I did with in terms of acknowledging the land, which is definitely in a protocol when it comes to indigenous research, a newer protocol, I would say in definitely most contexts. Now. So yeah, it's also a common protocol indigenous context, a fairly new practice in the US academic context, and that's meant to acknowledge and make as many people aware, especially in America, that this is all indigenous native land. So yeah, the next one, knowing self is self situating and sharing your story. And I exemplify that with me sharing my story kind of at the beginning, and a little bit briefly before that with the knowing community, to help discuss and let others know about possible biases. Just definitely being that with indigenous research, there's that call for reflexivity and self situating and also that reflexivity also calls for sharing your story with your colleagues, your and your collaborators. So then this next part of being aware of practices that can impede upon and nourish the community researcher relationship, they discuss it in terms of an example that one of the scholars experience at an academic conference, where non indigenous scholars were on a panel discussing indigenous communities. They, these non indigenous scholars discussing non indigenous communities did not acknowledge their relationship to indigeneity, or to any indigenous person, people, or anyone in the community that they worked with. So they, I think it was this scholar fast, who viewed it as appropriation of indigenous knowledge of not making or not directly, especially at a conference and a conference that focus when the research focuses on indigenous people in communities like not not stating how you became involved with that research or involved with that community. They felt they they felt viewed it as appropriation of indigenous knowledge and also included that example in their chapter as a way to highlight the importance of being aware of research on indigenous peoples. And how especially when in the American, Native American context like that, how that has led to many, many scholars building their careers off of indigenous languages and cultures, continuing on with the objectives. So they they break it down into major objectives and specific objectives. Their major objectives is to draw attention to the critical loss of indigenous languages and the urgent need to preserve revitalize and promote indigenous languages, and to take steps at the national and international levels. And I want to call attention to hear to how preservation is viewed under language documentation and to language warriors because it's not the same, in my opinion, in my in my experience. Language preservation under language documentation means to archive is place those materials in an archive or repository, preserve them in that sense. But language preservation to language warriors is synonymous to language revitalization is to keep the language alive to keep it as a spoken language or. Yes, to keep it or reclaim it, build it back into a spoken language in some instances. So I I want to highlight that because that has always, you know, the revitalization, the preservation. When it comes to. Indigenous languages and languages and language warriors, they want. It's not about placing it in material or placing it in archives. I want to call attention to that important point that I will move on now and to attempt to approach the connections or yeah, attempting to connect the specific objectives of the international decade of indigenous languages, indigenous research methods and field linguistic training. So I'm so kind of well, I give a little brief description and kind of indigenous research and indigenous methods and kind of given distinction, which has been discussed by Kovac primarily. Who states indigenous research involves and benefits indigenous peoples and methods are approaches based on indigenous knowledge. So I'm going to approach this, these connections as the indigenous research involving in benefiting indigenous peoples. So to me, an indigenous research approach to field linguistic training entails, which is one of these suggestions, and I'm only going to be focusing on one of the suggestions I propose in my paper, is a recognition of linguistics as a discipline rooted in colonizations and its implications for speakers, communities, community members and community members. And as field linguistics is connected to colonial first encounters with the exotic other. This can be done through an explicit discussion of ethical concerns. As I mentioned, a major finding was that ethics were rarely discussed, as I found within text, are really discussed in field linguistics training, but I feel it's definitely crucial to knowing the history of linguistic field research on indigenous peoples and how colonization has contributed to language shifts. This aligns with the major objective as to draw attention to the critical loss of indigenous languages. This explicit discussion of ethical concerns also needs to focus on power relations. This was on the question, who gets to decide? And also, I wanted at this time to I don't know if it's possible as to think as I'm going along with these, I definitely encourage you all to kind of think of how this, especially if you're an instructor or kind of a professor who has the power to enact change in your department, to think about how these indigenous research methods can be incorporated into your department into your field linguistic training. I don't know if it's possible if someone wants to create a Google Doc and you know, it could be a collaborative note-taking thing up to you all, but I just thought I'd encourage that and mention that to you all as I go along. And obviously these are not I'm hoping they could be applicable, but you know, it's like, as I mentioned, it's going to be dependent on local context. OK, so going back into, you know, the explicit discussion, focusing on power relations and the question who gets to decide, I'm going to talk about that in terms of three concepts. Terminology approaches to language research and the expert. So terminology that's specific when it comes to language name is my suggestion. Or definitely what needs to happen during the indigenous, the international decade is respecting the self determination of utter names of what communities want their language to be called. And also during a field linguistic training, engaging with questions such as who decides which language and aim to use in publications, especially if there are multiple variants. What are the social historical contexts for these variations? A lot of colonial names given to cultures and languages tend to be negative or have a negative connotation. And those are definitely the names that we that academics use. And there's not really much discussion discussion on on incorporating the auto names as as a forefront or to be used in publications and or even kind of just disgusting. Negative alternatives of of them. Of language names. So to me, this aligns with the specific objective of understanding the importance of indigenous perspectives and education systems. But I'm also going to say educational efforts because that's what language. Work is it may not always be based in the educational system. So the next concept in terms of power relation who gets the side is the purchase of language research. So as I mentioned, one of my findings is a focus on language learning or in field linguistic courses, field linguistic trainings. Traditional is elicitation techniques are privileged are definitely heavily incorporated heavily. That's what the focus is on. But definitely what a recommended suggestion and to to incorporate additional approaches to language research that definitely needs to be a incorporation of applied language when it comes to the elicit, elicitate language. So with that, you can focus on language learning topics to to bring about traditional grammar topics. I know that's going to I've gotten pushback on that from my professors in these courses and talking about it. But it can be done and I know it can be done because I've seen it at through the language immersion lessons that all the participants have given. So I included this quote from Crowley, who stated that there's a need for the discipline to coordinate a recognition to the value of applied as against purely theoretical and descriptive activities in order for the contributions of indigenous linguists to be fully recognized. So as I mentioned, one of the goals or one of the objectives for native foreign linguistics are the expanding linguistic science by broadening Native American participation, participation which evolved into the native foreign linguistics special interest group under the linguistic society of America. You know, one of the objectives was to increase participation of indigenous scholars into linguistics and at the LSA annual meeting. And in my experience, you know, native scholars do not feel comfortable at that meeting. But it's not it's not a safe space for them because the way that language is discussed and and while there are some efforts to incorporate, include more, you know, language revitalization, especially through one of the sister societies, still the society for sister society of indigenous languages of America. They, yeah, the LSA in terms of their annual meetings still has a lot of work to be done in in the sense. So to me, this aligns with, you know, taking short, medium and long term actions to preserve revitalize in order to ensure sustainability and longevity of indigenous languages after this decade and has ended. And I think, you know, including this. Applied language learning focus into especially filled methods courses definitely needs to be a structural change for the discipline in order to meet this, meet this goal, meet the help to meet this objective. So this is also a way that I guess linguistics can provide access to sustainable, accessible and affordable indigenous knowledge records, because that is a way to, you know, focusing on language learning topics can produce some language and cultural materials and definitely the speaker collaborator should continue to have access to that after, you know, their work with the course of the university has ended. But definitely that's a goal or, you know, that has been my experience too. But then I also wanted to bring up a case, a recent case to where this to where universities can still be seen as gatekeepers, as academic gatekeepers and profiting off of indigenous languages and cultures. And this was a case once again for my home state in Colorado. The Boulder is not too far from Denver. So this is a recent case of the CU Boulder and Lakota language and cultural materials. And this is the title of the the news headline of after initially asking for payment, CU won't charge Lakota teacher for tribes language records. So this just came out last week. So it's a local news article and I just put the link there for anybody wants to check it out. You can also Google it and it should come up. I know I'm going on time. So the last the last concept in terms of power relations to get to decide is the expert. So this also includes knowing the history of research on indigenous peoples and how that has come to where non-indigenous peoples come to be known as the experts of those people. And that is highly problematic and so definitely what needs to happen in the field linguistics training. And I would say even just in linguistics programs in general is so that there is a need to recognize that indigenous collaborators have their own expertise that they contribute to the research project within field methods courses or kind of any effort that any course that involves a speaker collaborator. They should be acknowledged as an expert by noting the role of such on the syllabus. And this is an additional inclusion which I didn't include. I didn't originally include in my paper was but especially with these objectives made me think about is incorporating training with a critical lens on an intellectual property and for sizing how it applies to language documentation materials. So this aligns with the specific objectives of promoting indigenous knowledge exchanges with science and research but also and also with supporting indigenous peoples in safeguarding their intangible heritage express your language. So definitely intellectual property is not. Widely discussed in any linguistics program my experience. But it's an importance and. Related to. Language records and materials. And especially with the creation. Of more language records how. How that could be. Well. How intellectual property can be applied to that so that it's not appropriated as well. So my my experience is that. There's only one. One venue that I know that that has kind of a just a brief. Brief. Overview. Of the of intellectual property. And that is through I've seen it done and through the biennial calling the Institute on Collaborative Language Research by Dr. Susan Smith Kong from UT Austin. She's kind of a the go to person on asking questions about intellectual property stuff. Once again in my experience. So. All right. So I want to I'm almost done. I want to want for us to kind of think. Yeah. Some of these objectives require thinking beyond field linguistics. So and I definitely want to highlight a major need for language warriors in terms of training in terms of skills needed. And that is when so they have some building capacity beyond linguistic training and language materials grant rating skills and support. So these objectives of these specific adults for more funding and more funding resources, which is great. That's what's needed for language revitalization work as probably many of us of us know language documentation grants. Sounds specifically say they do not find language revitalization activities. So yeah, that's great. There's a need for more funding opportunities for more funding sources. And hopefully with these more funding opportunities with people getting more funding that this will eventually lead to training and employment opportunities. So yeah, if there's going to be more grants available. Developed. People indigenous like yeah, language warriors need to. Yes, they need to learn and develop skills in grant writing so that they that they are able to write these grants on their own and not necessarily have to kind of rely on an outsider scholar to assist them with that. But. And this is a need. Or this is in my current experience. I am also currently involved with another NSF grant. Strengthening capacity and dynamic dynamic language infrastructure for tribal nations in which this this grant was specifically. Written and designed to create training opportunities and establish partnerships between members of Native American groups and linguists with grant experience in order to help increase admissions and successful awards in the language sciences for projects led by Native American principal investigators, PIs, and especially those based in Native American institutions. So that goes into supporting existing institutions already. So I would also say that there's a need for major grants to allow and this this is my my familiarity with some of the major documentation grants that there's a need for grants to allow indigenous collaborators to serve as the co-PI and be employed through the grant. I know might one of my colleagues at UCSB definitely received a prestigious language documentation grant and wanted to include their indigenous collaborator as the co-PI, but was told that if they were listed as the co-PI that they could not be employed through the same grant as well. So they that indigenous co-PI wasn't able to be a PI and had to just be in a sense demoted under the grant and but they're able to be listed as co-depositor. So that's that's an issue. So I mean, I bring this up to encourage not just for linguistic training, but also kind of the linguistic discipline and to how yeah, how our training can assist with the specific, especially these specific objectives for the international decade of indigenous languages. And I yeah, thank you. That is all I have. I think I spoke almost the entire time. I'm sorry. That's great, Adrian. Thanks for sharing. We'll take time for questions. And I mean, if you have time to go over the hour together, we can we can stay a little longer. People have questions, but that depends on your schedule. If anyone does have questions, you can use the hand raising function in Zoom. You could just put a Q in the chat to say that you have a question or you could write out your question in the chat if you'd rather. I read it out for you. So do let me know if you have questions while we're for those to come in, Adrian, maybe I can start with the question that I imagine one of the immediate pushbacks you get on this kind of a topic of bringing in this emphasis on ethics and the relational aspects of working with speakers of the language is that you're going to have a time problem in the classroom, right? There's only so much time. It's already a pretty challenging class, even if you're just focused on eliciting data and describing the morphosatatic and phonological structures. That's already a pretty hard task for students. Now you're bringing more into it. How do you respond to that? What what? Yeah, we'll probably most teachers of these kinds of courses will see as a practical challenge. So first, I'm definitely advocating just for the inclusion of knowing about community building relationships. I do acknowledge that and I do am aware of the time constraints. And yes, that has been definitely the the pushback is that I don't have time. There's no time to cover all those topics. And definitely there, you know. So maybe there may not be time within that course, but students can still learn about that there is a need. That there's a way that these communities have discussed community relationship building and that they should just know about it first, like they could just learn about it. Like they don't need to try to implement it in that specific course. As if that makes sense. That's our minimum. Raising awareness of the issues at minimum. Yeah, at the minimum is just making people aware. I mean, I'm not. I am aware of that. And also when it comes to especially as a grad student myself. Some of the objectives I wasn't able. You are not objectives, but kind of some of the the tenants of indigenous research, like, you know, involving everyone from the star and able, you know, having in. Everyone be involved in the research questions. That's not really. Something. Well, I definitely wasn't able to do as a grad student. It's kind of I had to develop my own research questions. Not necessarily with. The support or guidance. Or feedback from community members. Initially and. And that's due to time as well. Yeah. Maybe I can also ask another pedagogical question about contextualizing linguistics as a field for students. It's it's pretty easy to say linguistics has this colonial context that comes out of. And kind of everyone can sort of agree with that and repeat that mantra and feel like, OK, now we've accomplished decolonizing linguistics because we've also had the mantra, which I assume is not what anybody really wants to see happen. I'm wondering how do you or what do you recommend in terms of ways to help students help linguists see and understand what it means for linguistics to come out of a colonial context and besides just saying that that's the way it is. So how do you teach or how do you help people come not just to see the facts, but to become aware of what that means for linguistics to come out of this colonial context? Are there particular references or books that you've that have been helpful for you? About types, but I guess just the way I've been able to teach a couple just intro to linguistics course. I think that kind of an Easter started that kind of these discussions. Of helping students to kind of get a more in depth of what linguistics really is. I think it really needs to start there. And I think I kind of approach it as definitely I was including ethics like having with us, it's including the or I guess in the American context, I have them look over the LSA. What's a code of ethics or statement of ethics and also kind of look at a kind of a different approaches to language research because the norm is just the kind of is just on that quantitative that language data. And but then there's also different purchase language research such as qualitative and that in for social cultural and linguistic research. So to me, that's that's at least giving a little bit more of you. And I guess for me, I definitely try even just including I know that just on acquisition, so including that there, you know, within acquisition context of second language acquisition that there's these there's this language organization movement topic. Discussion going on in various parts of the world. Yeah, that's that's one way, I guess. Hercules, you have a question. Yeah. Hey, thanks, Joey. Hi, ma'am. Good evening. I'm Hercules Singhwanda from I am currently pursuing me and so as and I belong to an indigenous community. And most of the things that you say were pretty much relatable, like rather it be naming of the language or working as a PI versus a consultant and a non indigenous scholar discussing about indigenous knowledge. So my question to you is apart from academics and policy, do you see any other means by which language can be promoted? Indigenous languages because mostly it's the topic of indigenous languages comes across either academic or policy. But we apart from that, there's no discussion in other fields like media or technology. To me, I think that kind of includes more outreach or indefinitely kind of more, I guess, to the communities themselves, because maybe that could be something that they can assist with in terms of, I guess, more venues for awareness and more venues for promotion. So I think if it's coming from them themselves, but like I said, in my experience, that a lot of communities, especially a lot of the tribal communities, weren't aware of even just the international weir. And I actually just met with one of my students from Aldi on Monday and she came to talk about grants. And that's also why she's like, I need to know how to do this. So that's why I emphasize that. But I brought up the international decade and she was like, oh, well, like I didn't like, what is this? Like, and I was like, use this, like use this, you know, use what they're with these objectives and that it supported by UNESCO, like it's supposed to be like those global initiative, like use that as as support or kind of affirmation to the your work you're doing to use it for, you know, especially to your tribal government, like share this with your tribal leadership and that they they need to be knowing about this too. So I think it like I just don't think a lot of people are a lot of people are aware of just this whole decade beyond, you know, where we know about an academia and everything too. But if the community members don't know, yeah, I think that they first they need to be aware of it and that they can use that to promote, you know, develop okay, how do we want? Then that should be you know, after they're made aware, hopefully, after about bringing awareness that they can that will lead into kind of, okay, how can we how can we use this once again for our kind in the sense like how for our benefit, how can we make it specific to us? And how can we become involved with that if they want to? Thank you. Thanks, Adrian. Does anyone else have a question? I have one more question I could probably end our discussion with. But if anyone else has a question, just want to give a chance. Adrian, one of the things you talked about was focusing on areas of linguistics that are more likely to be of interest or benefit to the speakers of the language that are being studied. But there's always going to be aspects of the research that are either not going to be of interest or not of any direct benefit to a particular community of speakers who have to speak that language just because of the nature of the research or the research questions. So would you say that linguists should generally just avoid those topics altogether or at what point does it become appropriate for a researcher working with who's an outsider say working with a community to say I want to do a project using, you know, data from your language that's not going to benefit you. That's probably not of interest to you. Is it just a matter of time and creating the right relationships and respecting reciprocity before doing that? Or should that kind of linguistic research that doesn't benefit the community sort of just be avoided altogether? I wouldn't say it needs to be avoided because it's going to happen regardless. But I think I mean just being what you kind of how you frame that was just. It's been out front about it, right? You're just like I that's stating your positionality and that's stating kind of where your approach to this and I mean that could be. I'm not sure how they would take it, but I feel like for me, that would just be like just acknowledge your approach like just acknowledge be will be real in a sense of. I guess how you how you approach research. That may not be your old, you know, your alt, you know, your go to approach all the time. But like you said, it may have to happen for some language research. And it's just like I think like even acknowledging that like and to the speaker or collaborators wherever you're working with but also acknowledging that in the actual work. So that is probably something that has never been done or I've never really seen any kind of linguistics is. Acknowledging or just like OK, like I know this is kind of a purely theoretical approach. And this may not have no immediate or may not be immediately accountable to the community or the speaker themselves. This was discussed with them. They know. I don't know, that's to me that something in that way I think is a way to approach that is. Is what you said, just how you approach it just being. Real. Stating. Your positionality and why you want to approach that. And I think also kind of including that in the actual researcher, even just discussing that in. And when presenting about it. And it may not have like I guess in the sense of what's what's what's been a. What's beneficial in that sense of like how is there something from that research? Is there another skill from that research? Not necessarily linguistic analytical skills, but is there still something else that another transferable skill from that research that that collaborators able to gain from it? That could be useful for them computer skills. I mean, so I'm kind of thinking of like that in terms of broader impacts trading and kind of how that could be. And just thinking about how you know that's something that we natives for linguistics. Are advocating for is it when it comes to kind of solo presentations or presentations on indigenous languages presented at the LSAs that they include a broader impacts in their abstract and broader impacts can mean a variety of things, not necessarily just the production of language learning materials. Good. Great. Well, thank you for showing your perspective on that and for making the time to put this presentation together. We look forward to the paper coming out and I think that's going to continue to generate discussion and reflection as we think about how to be better in teaching the next generation of linguists what it means to do research and collaboration with communities, speakers and signers all over the world. Thank you so much. I appreciate you inviting me and thank you everyone for attending and your questions. OK, thank you everybody. Thank you.