 Insecurity would have worsened in Nigeria without Bihari's special assistant on media and publicity, Femi Adishina, and calls Intentify to prioritize the Sudanese people first as fighting intensifies in the four region. This is Plus Politics, I'm Mary Anacol. The special assistant on media and publicity to President Mohammed Bihari has said, the security would have worsened in Nigeria without the president's input. The presidential spokesperson noted that Bihari's administration greatly improved security in Nigeria. According to Adishina, Bihari surpassed the former president, Goodluck Jonathan, on security because Nigeria's armed forces moved from 7th to 4th place, rating in Africa. He further explained that Nigeria's insecurity would have been worse without Bihari's intervention. Meanwhile, ahead of the inauguration, a group under the auspices of the Coalition of Niger Delta Civil Society Groups has called on President-elect Asiwaju Bolaamit Tinibu to also extend the tenor of the Interim Administration of the Presidential Amnesty Programme. Joining us to discuss this is Fine Face Dunaminé. He is the Executive Director, Youth and Environmental Advocacy Center. Thank you so much, Fine Face, for joining us. Good evening. Thank you, Mary-Anne O'Connor. Thank you for having me. Good evening to everyone. Great. Let's start with the position of the presidential spokesperson. Of course, we know that the administration of President Muhammad Bihari is grinding to an end, and if for anything that's worthy of note, the president is really excited to be going home to Darra. But then, of course, we cannot but assess the performance of Mr. President over the years, especially for an issue that's a hot topic as insecurity. Now, I'd like to quote, you know, his presidential spokesperson, Femi Adish, you know, he said, and I quote, that the Bihari administration has greatly improved insecurity or rather insecurity has improved greatly under President Bihari's administration. So I'm going to pose that question to you. How greatly has the Bihari administration improved security and in what ways? Thank you very much. I think, basically, the primary responsibility of governments is to protect lives and properties. And the Bihari administration is not different from any other government, be it at the local government level, state level, or at the federal level. So the president has simply performed his job, but whether or not it has been greatly is what I cannot really be able to confirm, that the president has actually reduced insecurity greatly because the most significant thing that happened under the former president of the religion administration were things like the kidnapping of the, you know, Chief Burgers, the attack of the UN House and other, you know, insurgents activities that sprung up during that time. But government being a continuum, he has come into office and he has made his own impute and contribution towards the mitigation of, you know, the security situation in the country. But that does not mean that under the Bihari administration that we never had incidences of insecurity that affected the country. It is a common saying that someone cannot stop a moving train, but that parable has gone underground in Nigeria that under the Bihari administration, a moving train was stopped by some terrorists and some people kidnapped and taken into custody. So we've also had pockets of kidnapping across the country. So it may use that, you know, analogy of security rating or index that the country is now in court position instead of some position under, you know, Gulag Jonathan. But to me, I don't think self-target are not being targeted and that single indices is not enough to say that, you know, insecurity has improved greatly. Our train is no longer working on the way today because of the issue of insecurity. So we are not better off. It's not yet a hoodoo. There is nothing we should celebrate. But what we need to do is that we can commend the president. He has tried his own best. He has contributed his quota to the improvement of security, which is why he got into office, taking the auto office to protect lives and property. But to me, I don't really 100% agree with him that maybe under Bihari, we are already celebrating a total great achievement in the area of insecurity. What brings about the reduction in security is that there is cooperation between the people and the government. So if the presidency has enjoyed some form of cooperation from the people, it's not enough to say it has improved greatly. Now, also, we will have a former President Gulag Epile Jonathan. There was the increment of work from just about 70 something to 90 something out of there about in 2012. And there was mass protests across the country. But under the Bihari administration, we have increased from 165 to 700, 600, 500, and people cooperated and never went on the street. So if some of those steps were taken, it would have gone a long way to know the image that is trying to open now. Answers happened under this administration. And these are issues that threaten security in the country. So to a very large extent, I won't say that the president performed beyond what others could do. But to a very large extent, I believe that there was some reduction in the way that attacks were happening from across the country compared to under former President Gulag Epile Jonathan. So I wouldn't just agree with him that under the current administration that it is something we should celebrate 100% because there is a kind of high rating of the Nigerian military from his seventh position to the fourth position Let's look at some statistics. Today, a lot of part of the country is under siege by insurgents. Let's look at some statistics. I'd like to go with facts and figures. For a government that rode into power saying that they were going to deal with insecurity, especially Boko Haram. And of course, we've heard the information minister over and over say that Boko Haram has been technically defeated and it's been pushed to the fringes. And that at the time when they took power, Boko Haram was occupying local government areas, but now they are no longer occupying certain local government areas. But let me give you some statistics on the number of people that have been kidnapped in terrorist attacks in Nigeria from 2017 to 2019. I didn't want to go all the way back to 2015. Now, in 2019, 390 people were kidnapped in Nigeria in terrorist attacks. Several militant groups that were active in the country had attacks both on civil and military targets. We remember this. We also know that the kidnapping of 276 female students from a secondary school in Boronu, which happened in 2014, received a global response. But there was another that happened under President Buhari. Now, as of January 2021, I must let you know that 112 girls were still missing. Six students were believed to have died. And we also know that this has so far been 2021, I beg your pardon if I'm not mistaken, is the one that has had the most terror-related deaths, according to statistics. Again, there's been a lot of, I think 1,245 people who have died in Nigeria since 2019 based on terrorist attacks. And we have statistics also that despite the overall increase in the number of deaths, Nigeria remains one of the countries with the highest terrorism threat levels in the world. Now, in the year 2021, in 2019, I beg your pardon, even if the deaths due to terrorism experienced a decrease, Nigeria's deadly terrorist group Boko Haram became more dangerous and a number of attacks on both civil and military targets increased. So, yes, it looks like people they killed were reduced, but the attacks were on the increase. So, again, we seem to be the only country, as we speak right now, according to statistics, that is experiencing a high level of terrorism. And we're not even a war-torn country. So, again, it's beautiful for a family additional to say that, oh, well, our armed forces have moved a notch higher. But looking at how we're fighting terrorism, could we have done this a better way? We've seen that these people have had the F-antry to go into a naval, into an army training school and attacked, they kidnapped a soldier. We've seen these people hit targets like the presidential convoy, testing the body language of the government. And all we have heard is talking tough, declaring no-fly zones. Can we really have family additional keep this blanket statement in terms of the fight against insecurity? Fine face, are you there? The statistics that have been mentioned, I believe, is a product of research and there is something that is out there. And I believe the statistic is a source that can be depended on. But looking at the statistics you read out, I don't think anybody should be celebrating greater achievement when these kinds of things still happen under this present administration. And you know quite well that during the time of Jonathan, attacks of this nature, terrorist attacks of this nature were something that was alien to Nigeria. And when it was happening, a lot of people were believing that, ah, this kind of thing wasn't part of Nigeria. So a lot of people talked about it. But we are now getting used to this kind of system that we now have. So I think that if we have even a kidnapping under Jonathan taking of the school girls and it also happened under Buwari, and then you conclude that, okay, for that reason, you know, it is best under this administration. I think in a way, I believe that I can only go ahead to say that, okay, government is a continuum. The president has come, eight years is about to grow, how far has he gone? Well, he has tried his own quota, has computed his quota for the issue of insecurity, the fighting insecurity in the country. But I do not think that it did better than the previous administration because if the war was as strong as it was under Jonathan, under the current administration, we have been difficult for, you know, President Muhammad Buwari to also be able to manage it. So the insecurity, as I know, is like stress. It's part of us. It's something that we can manage and it's not something that we can eradicate because it's already part and parcel of the system and society. And the way it is in Nigeria today, a lot of people don't want the issue of insecurity to die down because that is the oil company of many people, even those who are within the security formation. They know what they're making from that. So they don't want it to go out so that they can continue to benefit. But in a way, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. I'm gonna stop you there, fine face. I'm gonna stop you there and question you a bit. When you say that there are people in the security business, these are people who are supposed to be law enforcement, helping us to fight insecurity. You're saying on national TV that this is their own company. In other words, they're really benefiting from it. So it has to continue. Is that what you're saying? Definitely, that is what I'm saying and that is the situation. It's just like we have in the Niger data. There are security personnel that have been posted to the Niger data to fight the issue of group or attempt. Illegal boundary and artisanal refinery. But they are aiding and abating the process and that continues. So in as much as you have people who are benefiting from a system as part of that process of fighting that system, the system will never go down. So the reason why you continue to have this security and even at the level it is now is that if it reduced to a very large extent, a lot of people who benefit from that, those processes will not be able to benefit from that. Just that we have the issue of pipeline ban. That is in good or attempt and illegal boundary in the Niger data. No matter how you fight it, you still see it's surfacing because the security personnel that are posted to the Niger data to fight the issue of group or attempt are allegedly aiding and abating this whole process and that is why it has to continue because people are making that they are oil company, they are making that they are tapping point, they are making that the alternative source of revenue at the expense of the society, at the expense of the country and the expense of the image and the name of the country. So you continue to have this system running. So that is happening because if you look at how much they make from Boko Ara, what happens when that happens. So a lot of things are happening and I believe that they know what I'm talking about and they believe and they know that it is the truth because a lot of people are benefiting from it. They wouldn't want it to go down because if it goes down, where are they going to continue to trade their oil? Where do they make a lot of money from? So they need to be able to work according to the tenants and the rules of engagement of their offices and ensure that we have a reduced security incidences across the country because the name we are getting is something that I don't think anyone is proud of. Okay, let's talk about the handling of the issue of terrorism and insecurity in general in this country. There seems to be a lot of tough talking and speech giving as opposed to the action plan that is on the ground. I have also spoken to several officers who are in the theater of warfare and many of them have not given great reports as to how they have been treated in this fight against insecurity. But let me take you back to former president Goodlock Jonathan's cry for help at some point when he said that there were saboteurs in his government and he felt that there was people who were aiding and abating Boko Haram sponsors of Boko Haram in his administration. Now, fast forward to the Bohari administration. Our country is a country that's facing this terrorism and insecurity. Well, we ought to have one way or the other found the finances of this, you know, insecurity. But then countries like Dubai were able to give us a list of people who were financing this, you know, insecurity. What has the Bohari government done till today? We've not heard anything about that particular list or the financiers. And President Bohari at some point also pointed to the fact that there might be people in government, powerful people, elites who may be sponsoring this insecurity. But what has been done? How well has the Bohari administration handled this? I mean, because this is one of the reasons why we voted the Bohari administration into power because many had thought that the Good Locked Genocide Administration did not handle this insecurity and terrorism issue. So how well did they do in terms of that handling? That's exactly the situation. In part, what President Guloka Bela Junatan said when he said that Boko Haram has infiltrated his government and you cannot really distinguish from, you know, those who are in it, from those who are not in it. Confirm the fact that there are people that are benefiting from the security in Nigeria. So we have, you know, conflicts, entrepreneurs, you know, in Nigeria. Those who benefit and make money from conflict. Now, look at the Bohari administration. What has actually generally changed in terms of how the former president managed the issue of insecurity and how this administration is managing the issue of insecurity? They are located to the army. They buy weapons for them. They also try the much they could. But does the money trickle down there? That is why I also challenge Nigerian media. We should go down to talk to the people at the Theater of War. They will be able to tell you what is really happening and what is running on ground. Investigative journalism is very, very key for us to really know the effort and the step that is being taken by the previous administration and the current administration in the fight against insurgency, insecurity across the country. What I think addresses the issue of insecurity and insurgency or whatever is the cooperation of the citizens to volunteer information, to security operatives that they can use to counter some of these violence, extremism, insurgency and all these terrorist attacks that we have around. But if you don't have that becomes an issue. I know that one of the things that helped the Guadalupe administration somehow was rolling out certain social security schemes that put some stupence in the pocket of some people who may not have had that and may have also reduced the way they go into the issue of creating security issues across the country. But to a very large extent, it is not yet time for us to celebrate. We seem to work together as a people to volunteer information, work with the people, gather intelligence, invest into research. I don't think we research in this country, especially people that are in authority. The moment they are on the dining table, you don't see them spend more time, spend more resources to gather information. Other countries spend so much to gather intelligence and it is only through intelligence gathering and sharing of information that we can be able to win the war against insecurity in Nigeria. But if we continue to stay in our offices, make a lot of comments, send money and we don't monitor how the money spends to procure military software and hardware, then it becomes an issue. How much are we able to even pose the morale of the security personnel we pose to the field there? And a lot of them are having a lot of these issues and they don't even have a way of challenging their problems. So I think that the Guadalupe administration have tried its best, but its best is not enough because we are not yet where we should be at this point in time. Because if you look at the promises that were made by the Guadalupe administration in 2015, when it came into power, I was going to tackle insecurity and eradicate insecurity. That very language of eradicating security came and I also came to the public and said, you cannot eradicate insecurity. You can minimize and reduce insecurity, but you cannot eradicate it. But it's part and parcel of the entire system. Fanfevers, what do you think is the major challenge? What do you think the major challenge of government is? And I'm not just talking about the Pahare administration because it seems like it's the same question I could have asked if, you know, under the Jonathan administration, what do you think the major challenge is in terms of naming, shaming, and prosecuting these people? Because I mean, if a country like the UAE was able to tell us that these are some of the people they found to be people who are financing, that could have been a thread of sorts. That could have linked us if we were serious about it. So what exactly do you think the challenge is in dealing with this issue? What's stopping our government, especially a Pahare administration that everyone looked at as a no-nonsense government that would deal with this issue once and for all? What is stopping the Pahare administration or any other administration to tackle the issue of insecurity even when they know those who are perpetuating this is lack of political will and lack of capacity on the part of government to demonstrate that leadership such that they can take the issue of insecurity by the home. So they also understand and they know that the process that brought them to power, one or two persons whose names have been mentioned has been part of the process of creating insecurity for the country is in there. So they are afraid of taking on the person because they don't want to step on toes. And unless we begin to fight insecurity head on without any sacred cow, without no matter how highly placed the person could be, when you are linked to the issue of insecurity you are taking on, that is the only way we can be able to reduce the issue of insecurity to the barest minimum. You can imagine what the UAE did, naming some persons that are allegedly sponsoring the insecurity and terrorism in Nigeria. But Nigeria never took steps to investigate those people. It never took steps to kind of prosecute those people. And I tell you, after God, the next all-knowing institution we have is the government because the president received security briefing from across the country every day and he understands from different security formations from the DSS, to the police, to the army, to the Navy, to the Air Force, to the Nigerian security and single defense corps and just name them. The president has security information fitted to him every day and he knows who does what, how, when and where. And we also have our phone lines that have been tapped to a very large extent because a lot of people that are at the level that they can create the issue of insecurity in Nigeria are politically exposed. And we have all these things done but they are unable to tackle the issue of insecurity. I think government needs to summon that political way, not minding anybody that is highly placed in the country and try as much as it can to prosecute, investigate and prosecute anybody that they said or found to have been contributing to the issue of insecurity in this country. Because why they are smiling to the bank because they are conflict-enterpreneurs? Others are going to the grave sad. Others are going to their home destroyed. Others are going and crying because their people have been killed. Others are crying before their people have been kidnapped and a lot of people are unable to go about their normal businesses and it's making the foreign missions to labor and least Nigeria as no-fly zone. Advising their citizens that the country is a hot zone, people should not enter, it's painted red. So it's a big problem. I have experienced a situation in this country whereby a senior citizen of the UK wanted to come to the south side. And the person was advised not to come to the south side because the south side is under security threat area. That place is not safe. So it became an issue for the person to come in. So what causes this? I think we need to take steps to address this issue. And the government is the right person because the resources is there, the intelligence is there. The political will should also be there to address the issue of insecurity so that we can have a safer environment where investment can thrive, business can thrive and people can go about their businesses and be able to enjoy their lives the way they want to enjoy it without any fear of being attacked, fear of being kidnapped, or fear of terrorists attack within the area they go to. So I think that intelligence gathering is very, very key. Government should summon courage to use political will to drive the process of providing security for Nigerians because the primary responsibility of government is the provision of protection of lives and property. And that is what the government should be because the resources is there for the government to do so. Let me ask a quick question before we go to the amnesty part of this conversation. Now we've seen millions, if not billions put into fighting insecurity. So let's not talk about this without talking about the army and accountability. Monies have been, I mean, when it comes to security monies, including security votes, it seems to be shrouded in some level of secrecy. So even when the National Assembly is asking questions, we barely get to get answers. And of course these monies belong to us, the taxpayers, and it is our right to know how these monies are being used, if they're being put to good use. We've seen, like I said, I have had conversations with people who are fighting in the theater of war. I have spoken with soldiers in different parts of the North who are in the oppression-safe corridor, in Hadinkari and all of those operations. Most of the most common denominator is that most of these people are not armed with the right kind of ammunition to fight these terrorists. Don't forget, half the time these things are reported, we hear that these terrorists have superior firepower compared to what we're giving our people. Aside from the firepower, what is the welfare of these men and women because they are, whether we like it or not, protecting us and our borders. And if they're protecting us, putting their lives on the line, what are we doing to make sure that they themselves are protected and they have something that can keep them going and encouraging them in the fight against insecurity. How well have we done in terms of that and how do we get accountability from the army? Yeah, to a very large extent, I think that they hardly want to disclose security in a project. But in some other climes, you can just go online and you can find how much the United States, the United Kingdom are spending on security. What they may not do is to actually break down to tell you the nitty-gritty of what the money is being spent for. But to a very large extent, if you have reason to seek for that information, they can give it to you. Like in Nigeria, we have the Freedom of Information Act that can grant people access to such information. But in a way, they are also being careful that maybe if they make those information available and to the public that some of those telluries, the criminals, the insurgents, they are fighting may have access to that information and going to plan a counter which will affect their operation. So they are also trying not to make that available. But to an extent, citizens that are well-meaning are able to get this information. And I know quite well that if government is trying to fight insecurity the way they are attempting to do, even using the security boat which has been a controversial issue, they can do it. I think that the resources they need to fight insecurity is there. And insecurity is something that they put more money to than most other things that you can ever think of because when they attempt to carry out the function of government that has to do more with protection of lives and property. They try to put in some more money to get their job done. We need to boost the morale of our soldiers who are the theater of war. These are fathers, these are uncles, these are brothers and husbands. And a lot of people are like, trying to see how they can also be well taken care of. Often times when funds are released to take care of them at that level, often times they don't get to them. And again, they have the training but the equipment to use and fight is not always readily available to them. Often times we've had when we hear that the type of guns that the telleries they go to fight have is more than what our security operated have. And a lot of time they fall to those superior guns, not because they have superior firing power but because they have better gun. The security people have. So everything needs to be overhauled. There should be the overhauling of our security architecture to be able to drive the process of having 21st century policing and security and defense for the country. And that is why we need to train and retrain our personnel to give them that modern training and capacity to be able to counter insurgency and counter telleries actions and other security threat that we have across the country. So it's from the mentor that we bring our security personnel up to date with what we have. And that is why training and retraining is very, very important for us to oppose their morale. And if any of them happens to lose their life allegedly the people, the families should be able to feel the impact of them going to the theater of war to put them on. Because when people are not taking care of they are unable to be petrotic and do more and put their lives on the line to defend other people. So I commend the military and all others who are the theater of war fighting to making all of us a car in the hinterland to have a safer society. And I think government should do more to appreciate them for what they are doing. Finally, fine phase before I let you go. Talking about the amnesty program, a group is calling for an extension of the tenor of the guy who was at the helm of affairs. But before you answer that, what do you perceive the body language of the president-elect and whoever is in charge of security and the people that he surrounds himself? What do you think it would be in terms of dealing with that? Because of course we saw the heightened level of insecurity, tension, violence during the election, the election that of course he merged from. And we've seen, even after the election, a resumption of all of the terrorist activities, et cetera, et cetera. How do you presume he's going to deal with this? Is this something that he will prioritize from your perspective? And again, talking about prioritizing things, will this amnesty program be top on his agenda? Yeah, I think the president-elect, Ahmed Bolatini is going to prioritize security issue, is going to also look into the issue of the presidential amnesty program. Why I think so is that looking at his body language, he understands that this is what Nigerians want at this point in time to address some of these issues. And I think the president-elect also understands that if you look at how he emerged presidents, there were four major political parties that ran the election. We have the Labor Party, we have the People's Democratic Party, the PDP, then we have the APDC, then we have the NNPP. If you put the votes of the PDP with that of the Labor Party and that of the NNPP, you will see that the vote is more than the vote votes that the president-elect used to win the election. So every other vote that didn't go to him means that those people don't want him and they never wanted him to become president. So I think what he's going to do is to see how he can appease those people by making sure that he does things that people want him to do and things that we make Nigerians to be happy with him. So looking at him from that perspective, I think he's not going to take any action that will be so drastic. So things that people will begin to talk about and there will be action across the country. So we may decide to look at the presidential amnesty program and then address it because the Niger data people want that program to continue so that we continue to have a safer Niger data for the oil to continue to flow. All right. Well, fine-faced, Dum Namene is the executive director youth and environmental advocacy center. Thank you so much, fine-faced, for speaking with us. We appreciate it. Thank you very much. All right. Up next, we turn our attention to Sudan as the countries across the world evacuate their citizens to safety. Stay with us.