 Hi everybody. Hi. How's it going? Hi everyone who's online. Very nice to have you all with us today. My name is Art Ferrell, and this is Jorge Turrado, and we're going to be giving this talk about don't ask what community can do for you, but what you can do for community, specifically within the confines of the CF, as both of us are CNCF ambassadors, coming from completely different backgrounds, yet we both live very close to each other, live about an hour away. I live close to here in Bilbao, my partner. And now 13 years later, I've been living in the best country for the last 12, and it's a really nice place to live. How many of you, for you, is this your first time in Bilbao? So far, so good. Awesome. If you need any recommendations, you just let me know. I know, I know, you're also a foreigner. You'll learn a lot about regional identity in the bad. But, but yeah, it's like I said, I'm a CNCF ambassador. I've been one since March of 2021. And we can talk a little bit about that more in detail later on. But, and also, is anyone going to be here on Thursday before I forget? Is anyone here on Thursday? You're all leaving. Okay, cool. You're here Thursday. All right, cool. On Thursday afternoon, we'll be doing a CNCF meetup where Jorge will also be giving a talk. I'll be the, I guess, Speaker MC. I'm also a content creator. That's why you see the camera here. I will be recording Jorge while we're doing the talk in different moments. And I also do podcasts. Just launched a new podcast called Cube FM. If you want to check that out, all things Kubernetes, content by practitioners, for practitioners. I'm a very amateur rapper. I don't use chat GPT to write my lyrics. But I've done over, I don't know, 120 raps about Kubernetes. Some are better than others. You can check them out on YouTube. And I'm a believer in people because I need people to believe in me. So that's sort of my background, the things that I bring to the CNCF ecosystem. We'll talk about that more in detail later on. Jorge, you're cooler than me. Take it away. Okay, I think that it's my turn. I'm a rockstar. Microphone people online. Okay, okay. I am a human. No, I'm not a rockstar like him. I have a more human background. I'm CNCF ambassador. I'm one of the maintainer of KEDA project. KEDA is a Kubernetes project. I'm also Microsoft MVP. And I work as a 3D expert in the sparse group in Lidl. So I'm more human. I'm not a rockstar like you. He's a very good human. I can attest to that. He has a problem that he never says no every time I ask him to give a talk. He even recorded talks. He also gives talks frequently in a bathrobe. That's another topic. Apart from human, I'm a bit of a stupid. I have to clarify it. Anyway, he's a wonderful person with a great heart and embodies a lot of the values that we'll be talking about. Because like I said, we have very, very different backgrounds. So this is the format. We'll be speaking about the technical ways you can get involved in the CNCF, also the non-technical ways you can do so. And then you can decide about what's the best way for you to do it. There are different foundations out there. You have to find what's the best fit for you. In this case, for me, experience is a bet. So we always have something to learn. Go for it. It's my turn. Let's do a demo, a quick demo. Because the first thing is showing something that works. Oh, okay. I haven't prepared the demo. My fault. Let me give me a second. I will do it quickly. Demo, default project, blah, blah, blah. Autocreate, why not? We'll leave it in the edge, deploy in cluster and demo. Why not? Demo sounds like a demo project. Yeah, I was going to say, that's a really interesting demo you're doing. Oh, my fault. That's okay. I can't repeat it, but basically, if you are familiar with Argo CD UI, I have created a demo from scratch. Okay. Let's go. Let's see. Oh, we are them. We are here. Of course, the demo was prepared. That was the demo. And the point is that we want to show you that we have deployed our sexy picture. Award winning Pulitzer Prize winning photograph. Around the world in a quite, a quite second, I have just deployed from scratch because it's part of the demo, but we want to share it. How can this be possible? Okay. I'm developer. I'm not PM. Sorry. I have several troubles with slides as a good developer. Okay, we have just so we have so Argo CD, Kubernetes, Docker, a lot of stuff, a lot of technologies. But what do they have in common? Why we have chosen this demo about showing something with Argo CD, we do stuff because all of them are open source projects. All the technologies that we have used for this demo are open source. So we are using some projects with the code open, but open source in general could have some troubles with troubles. What is one of those troubles? The licensing. Licensing nowadays is a really huge problem because at the end of the day, there are a lot of different license. For instance, let me check if, okay, nice. Nice. I will apply for a PM role after the license. The demo has to use some of this license. I have developed the demo with BS code, which is made. I have used Golang, Kubernetes, Docker, and the speaker pictures. SSL, what is this? Let me check. Oh, it's a small super sexy license. And why have we used this license? Because this is another problem in the open source and in our environment. You can create your own license without any problem. Please don't use these licenses in your code. This is a joke, obviously. But it's one of the troubles that we can face in our daily basics with open source. For these cases, oh my God. That's okay. Yeah, yeah. We have a wonderful audience. They're forgiving. After the picture, I think we're all good. Let me check. Okay, open it. Good. So what can we do? Or which is one way for leading and living with these kinds of problems. The foundations. And we are here to talk about one specific foundation because we are CNCF ambassadors. We are not, I don't know, a potato foundation ambassadors. We could be because I'm from Victoria. Yeah. Very famous for potatoes. Yeah, but it's true that we are CNCF ambassadors and we are going to talk about the CNCF. And how can you collaborate with CNCF? Because this is bidirectional stuff. It's not like, oh, CNCF will come and give me a lot of stuff or I have to do a lot of things. And I'm alone. This is a bidirectional flow. So let's start with some data about CNCF. My turn. I'm the PM. Cool. So CNCF started in 2015. All right. And started by Dan Kahn, who is the first director and the current director is Priyanka Sharma. And there are 164 projects. We'll take a little bit more detail, but that's a lot of projects. Right. Chris Anderson, who's here in the event today, he was at one point said that he's not unaware on top of all the projects. It's totally normal. Right. There's a lot of stuff going on. If you go and look at the CNCF landscape in Google images, it can be quite overwhelming. That's totally understandable. But no one needs to know absolutely everything. All right. Jorge is very involved in one project, which is the KEDA project. But how many other projects are you involved in? I have involved in as maximum three. Yeah. Using maybe 15, 15, 20 as maximum. It's important to keep that in mind. And I think it needs to be repeated in a lot of talks. The speaker that was just on before us was talking about how many times he said burnout or burnout is a serious thing that happens to a lot of people in open stores. So just being aware of not being stretched too thin, not signing up for too many things. That's something to keep in mind. But a really cool thing is a next data point. All right. So 215,000 contributors from 190 countries. That's a lot of countries. All right. If we think about the fact of being able to connect with people from all over the world, learning from each other, I find so much, it's really, really enriching to be able to interact with other people who are in different places, regardless of their technical background. You get to learn so much about local holidays, local culture of food, et cetera. It's something that I find particularly attractive. Then projects are separated on in different phases. Sandbox incubating graduated. Could you speak about that a little bit, Jorge? Because Keda just became a graduated project. Yeah, for sure. I can do a brief introduction because at the end of the day, there are a lot of different stuff. But CNCF has created these three different stages for projects just for splitting them into the, let's say, reliability. It's not reliability because some Sandbox projects are strongly reliable, but just for measuring the maturity of those projects. The first level is the Sandbox. It's the first state that usually all the projects go in when they enter in CNCF. And usually means that our projects with the future who can grow, who can fulfill any Kubernetes or any cloud native environment requirement, but they are still starting or they don't have enough adoption for considering them in a maturity level for being used in production or for being evaluating in critical environment. The next level is incubated. It's an intermediate level. The majority of the projects are incubating or is the biggest range because this maturity level means that the project has a serious commitment, a serious engagement. It's fulfilling a requirement. A real necessity in Kubernetes has a solid community base. So they won't disappear from one day to another, but they are not still or they are still in the process for being, let's say, ready for critical mission workloads. What that means, security staffs, maintainability staff, documentation, all the things that you could expect from a product ready to use in your productive clusters or in your productive environments without specific troubles about it. And graduated is the other. When you are ready for production, you are ready from security point of view, you have a great community, you have engagement from several different actors, like three or four big players in the tech sector, a lot of community contributors, and a nice documentation. All those staff that can guarantee the life cycle of the project, you are ready for being graduated. Which projects are graduated? Kubernetes, Prometheus, Argo CD, Etsy, Keda, obviously. I have to sell my book. I'm here only for saying this, that Keda is already a graduated project. Can you also explain just what was from when Keda started to become a graduate, how long did that process take? We can talk about it on next Thursday. What do you think? One year or two years. It's going to be different in each project, but in your particular case, how was it? I should know it, because in theory I have already prepared the session, but now I'm kidding. We started in CNCF, the Keda project was donated to the CNCF on March 2020, maybe. And we have been graduated in CNCF one month ago, officially on August, the last August. So we have been there for three years, just collecting more contributions, growing, increasing the adoption from end users, before being graduated. With this idea, I would like to explain that it's not like, oh, I want to be a graduated project. Let's go. Oh, thanks. I'm graduated. No, it has been a hard road, a lot of working, a lot of hard work in the process. It's not free. But in the real world, CNCF, with these maturity levels, are guaranteeing and ensuring the reliability of the project. They are ensuring that the project are safe, the treat model, for instance, for security adversaries is correct, they pass a security audit, they check all the internal process just for saying, okay, I'm If I trust on them, please be safe if you use them because we have outed them and we are sure that they will respond, obviously, as an open source project. You can't expect enterprise support from an open source community. But more or less, those are the maturity levels from the CNCF. Yeah. Good. Nice explanation. Probably you know them better than me. No, no, no, no. So once again, like we said, to look at the landscape, you know, there are different different categorizations, first and foremost, what you said about, you know, about sandbox versus incubator versus graduated. We probably should have got a better picture. It might be better to go to the CNCF website. I got the lead already prepared. Good job. Or showing it. Yeah. Because looking at the different, the different kinds of categorizations, depending on what kind of technology someone's interested in. So we hear, you know, storage or whether they're talking about service proxy, etc. So that way people can specialize in a particular area. And like I said, but don't get overwhelmed. Do not, if this is, don't feel like this is the first and only place you can interact with the CNCF. There's so many other opportunities. So don't worry about that. It's more so asking about what am I interested in? What kind of contributions have I done in the past? What sounds interesting? Where do I see myself going? Asking those questions first will make it a lot easier to get involved. There are also different contributor guides that folks can check out and we'll speak about other ways too so that it doesn't just have to be about reading things or looking at a website. There are people that you can talk to such as ourselves who would be happy to help you get settled. Anything you want to add about the landscape? Yeah, I want to clarify something. And it's that in this case, foundations, we are talking about CNCF, but getting a, usually foundations also help to, to cloud providers or to external providers with how to explain this. To provide a compatible or a usable software across different places. If you check this last box, the box below, the box in bottom is just certificate providers from CNCF, but you can see there, from here I see Dell, Citati, probably Azure, a lot of places. So the CNCF is also checking and auditing external providers for giving you the guarantee that your software and your stuff will work on them. And this is not a mean or thing because thanks to it, I know that I can, as a developer, as a company, I can develop my application for working on Kubernetes and I can use Kubernetes across any of them. I can use them because all of them are certified. So I will have the core functionality on all of them. It's not like, oh, I have developed this using Azure function. For instance, I want to go to AWS. Oh my God, AWS Lambda. I need to rewrite all my applications because I have vendor lock it and I'm locked to that vendor and I don't have any technology in the other cloud. No. Thanks to the foundation and the CNCF in this case, I know that whatever I build on top of this work on any of them. And this is not a mean or question. In biggest companies, it's quite useful to have multi-cloud environments and those kinds of things. Imagine yourself building the same application in three or four different ways just for being able to deploy on GCP AWS, Alibaba Cloud and Azure. It could be crazy from maintaining point of view. The investment on it would be crazy. So it's an important remark that I wanted to make about what the CNCF and other foundation does on this part also. Me too. Oh my God. A lot of different projects. All right. And in each one of those projects, generally speaking with good documentation, you can find good first issues so that way people can get tested out and get a feel for how this project is going to be, are my skills going to be helpful here or maybe they're very saturated with lots of contributors. So I should be better to look for a different project or different kinds of contributions that could be made. Anything else you want to make about code contributions to add there? Yeah, for sure, but there is another slide. So we can talk about this about that point in the other slide. Okay. Another thing that you can do is giving talks. We are here sharing our knowledge. If you have knowledge on any topic, please share it. Your knowledge is useful for others. You don't need to be rockstar like him for talking about something. You can't go, you just need to know a bit more than the attendees. And probably those attendees will find your experience useful because you don't need to be an expert for contributing sharing your knowledge. Something that's mentioned time and time again is that there's no resource that's ever going to be too basic. All right. You'll see this with some of the efforts that the CNCF has made now recently with Kubecons about having a kids day so that kids can learn about cloud native technologies through things like Minecraft. But really, I always say this is that until we're able to explain these concepts to children, to our neighbors, if we walk down the street right now and ask people if they know what Kubernetes is, how many people are really going to know? All right. Well, maybe if it's a street near this event, that would be one thing. But I'm saying in your average environment, so there's a big emphasis on that too, that beginners are welcome, that there are no technical prerequisites. Basically, what is there? Are you willing to be nice, to ask questions, to do some work to get involved? Those are the things that are much, much more important. Other things that Jorge mentioned, we have different Kubernetes tutorials. If you look for KCD on Twitter, you can see lots of all the announcements that are going on about that. There are a few that are, it's really, the program got spun up a few years ago, and it's really, it's expanded a lot to the point that now there are also cube days that are larger scale events. There'll be one happening in India in December, I believe, and these events, they did one in Israel earlier this year that are bigger. And then Kubecon, obviously being the biggest ones. The next one will be in Chicago in early November. The last one every year in alternate, there's always one in North America and one in Europe. Earlier this year, we were in Amsterdam. In November, we'll be in Chicago. Are you going to Chicago? March, we will be in Paris. In March, next year, we'll be in Paris. So yeah, so you're around in the neighborhood. Next year, there's also Kubecon China. That's happening next week. There'll be Kubecon next year in India. The dates get to be announced. Like I said, these events are generally larger, around three, four day events. So like I said, but just different ways to get involved. And then at the bottom, local meetups. Through the pandemic, there was a lot of online content as well. Some meetups still may happen online or hybrid models. Like I said, the one that we've done in Bilbao, Jorge has now spoken at least once, if not twice. And so we'll be doing our meetup on Thursday. So like I said, there are lots and lots of different ways of getting involved. And you can submit talks to local meetups. You can submit talks to KCDs, Kubernetes community days. All these are different ways to be involved. And you can submit talks or you can also be a part of the organization. You can be there just to be friendly. There's infinite ways to get involved. So like I said, those are some of the different ongoing initiatives where people can participate. Good. Extending through non-code contributions. One thing that's mentioned time and time again. Typographical errors, spelling mistakes, and documentation. Getting people to go through and read that increases their knowledge base and also makes sure that it's easier, more accessible for people that are getting into that documentation. So it's said time and time again by maintainers that correcting typos. I think that I really am really thankful to it is guys, people who came to our documentation and corrected. Probably you didn't notice because my accent is perfect, but I'm not native speaker. So I do a lot of mistakes. I recognize them. But if you go to a document or a project documentation and you see a huge typo, probably you say, what is this? This is not a serious problem. But it's not because it's not a serious project. It's because probably the people behind that project are not native or they can do mistakes. Just helping with those small things. No, here you need to put an extra S. It looks like a super mean or contribution, but it helps too. You don't need to know any whatever language. You can help with your speaking language. And this is important. Or even if it's correctly written, it's like, yeah, but we are human. Maybe you are an expert from my user point of view. If you explain this in this other way, it could be clearer for newcomers. And those contributions are super valuable and can be done without any knowledge about the code. You don't need to know any knowledge about the code, the language. You are contributing with your user experience, which is really valuable for projects. Absolutely. And with that in mind, too, is that asking questions is a contribution. Because maybe something seems really obvious to somebody, but it's not obvious to somebody else. And it opens them up to the fact of, huh, maybe actually we need to explain that better. If people are asking these questions again and again, these things are very helpful. So no contribution is too small, and all of them are going to have an impact. Other things with that as well, too. How many of you speak more than one language? Good. Got quite a few people and a couple Americans and British people. But what I mean with that is this is a gift, too, right? Not being a native English speaker means you are a native speaker of another language. This has been an ongoing initiative with a cognitive glossary, right? A list of very basic terms that can help onboard folks that perhaps come from a non-technical background, from a business background, but want to understand more about what being cognitive means. So the CNCF has a cognitive glossary, and then the localization project of getting that glossary translated into I don't know how many languages, but I know it's over a dozen. It's a way to help out, and once again, to make these concepts more accessible. We shouldn't be saying that your success in open source should be based on how well you speak English. Yes, English is the common language that's used, but in no way should be suggesting that people that speak other languages are somehow inferior. It should be quite the opposite. This makes it more enriching. In my particular case, how did I get involved in the CNCF? I've never written a line of code in my life, right? Never. I tried once to learn C-Sharp, and it was a massive failure, and what I can probably imagine how that turned out, and several times I all occasionally be like, you know what? I should try to learn Python. I should try to learn Go, and then I start thinking about it, and then I get involved in other things. But like I said, is that how I got plugged into the CNCF was because of doing podcasts, and at one point someone said, hey, you should go check out the Contributor Experience upstream marketing group. I did, and I've never been so welcomed in hardly anywhere else in my life, and so that experience of wanting to pay it forward or what Hippie Hacker calls viral generosity was very, very strong for me. And so being involved in that group, it was a question of going out and talking to people, asking them about their experience as contributors, writing blogs, doing interviews. So I immediately felt that I have value, and I can help here, all right? So like I said, that was my particular case. Then other, like I said, other ways to get involved, organizing events online often, yes. Give me the chance to make a small note in the footer. Probably all of you know who is him, but who knew who I am before coming here? And I am who contribute with a lot of code in Kubernetes, but also in KDA, ArgosDB, but you know him, you knew him, and you didn't know me. So I want to clarify the importance of the value of any kind of contributions because he's contributing, and he's growing the community without writing any line of code. And this is important because sometimes in these meetings it's like, oh, this is a motivational speech. No, you don't need to know technical. You don't have to, you don't need to have technical knowledge. No, it's true. You knew him, and you didn't know me. And he didn't write any line of code, and I wrote those lines of code. So it's important. Also, non-code contributions are really important in the environment. This is the end of the note. I would also say that we can give you a crash course on marketing because like most BASC people, you're very good at doing stuff and not so good at it. It could work on sharing it a little bit better, but still, the point is, is that it's really a question of what am I good at, what am I interested in, and there's going to be a place for you. There is a place for you, and it's just a question of me and the right people. And people that are really excited about helping other people get involved, helping them get onboarded, helping them get closer to that next step where they're going to be participating more actively. All right? Good. Let's keep going. Go ahead. Now it's my turn. Yes. How can the CNCF support you? Because in the beginning, I said, this is not something like, I will work for free for CNCF, and CNCF won't work for free for me. It's like bidirectional. And we have talked about what can we do, but what CNCF can do. CNCF can support you as a maintainer with directly support. In the beginning, I said, oh, don't invent your oil license. As maintainer, I have had legal support from CNCF. Legal means lawyers. Legal means I want to take, or we would like to do this, but could you support us? Is this legal? How can we proceed with this? With lawyers. Literally, they put their lawyers for supporting us. And this is not trivial. This is a really important thing for growing projects, for the legal protection of the project. But also with resources. We have developed a piece of software. Okay, it works. But we want to test it on several environments, on several clouds, on several... That means money. That's it. If you want to test with Azure AWS resources, because it's required for your project, that means money. It's the only answer. The money moves the world. And CNCF supports also with credit for open source. They interact with third parties. For instance, recently they have support. They have had the support from Graphana Labs. They speak as intermediators with other third parties for giving us a lot of amazing tools which can make our life easier. There is a list of services. But we are in rough, I guess. So I want... I didn't realize how much time we've got. Yeah, I think that we have only five minutes more. Good. So... Okay. It's good? Okay, go fast. Oh, no, you want me to keep... So we can get through the developer. I won't speak about it. Or I won't show the list. But you can go to the CNCF and check the project resources. And you will see them, all the things that CNCF can do for you. But also as developer, now I'm not a maintainer of a project. I am a developer who wants to start in cloud-native environment. How can I start? CNCF has mentorships. You can apply for a mentorship and CNCF will help you with a mentor that will help you on your starting CNCS project, your contributions with some projects. And they will guide you and stay with you on their process for starting, which sometimes is really complicated. How to start in a cloud-native or in a project is a really hard thing to achieve. But also with trainings. Okay, I'm a guy who has studied, in my case, I'm electrician. I'm expert at connecting wires. But I want to start with Kubernetes. I wanted, okay, CNCF offered trainings and also certifications. I started with Kubernetes. Doing the certification, not for the paper, not for the title. But because it provides a framework to learn the concepts. For the knowledge, because it's an organized learning path. But also, there are the scholars you found that you can apply for them. So CNCF is also supporting you. It's not like, I'm working for free. No, it's bidirectional contributions. That scholarship fund helps people from lots of different backgrounds from lots of different places to be able to attend events, to be able to be seen and heard. Going back to the certifications, a lot of different ones for developers, for admins, for security. KCNA is a Kubernetes cloud-native associate. That's for more, we can say, like a step below for people that are earlier on in their journeys. Then PCA is for Prometheus. And then KCSA is like a more beginner version for security. So like I said, different ways to learn, not just for a piece of paper, but having a framework to get the concepts solidified. Cool? Yep, all right. Good. How can you get involved? All right, ambassadors. Ambassadors are easy to find because we're generally quite visible. You can go to the CNCF website. You can see who the ambassadors are. To become an ambassador, there's a very clear process about how to do that. There are two different application periods. Generally, it's revolved around what kind of contributions are you making? Are you leading in a community? Are you creating content? Are you more code-based, as in Jorge's case, as a maintainer? So like I said, that's a really good way to get involved. It's ambassadors' jobs to make it easier for you to get involved. And generally, what I say is that if I don't know the answer, I probably know somebody who does. All right? So just don't be shy. Attending a local meetup, finding some good first issues, localization through translate. And once again, thinking about, do some internal reflection. What do I do well? What am I interested in? What have my previous experiences been? And that way you can mix and match that with what the CNCF has to offer. Anything else to mention here? I have a sample, because we are just in time. So, nice. Let me try to open the browser again. Nice. I'm S.V.E., remember? This is the good first issues from ARGO project. It's funny because I work for KEDA, but I'm showing another project which is not KEDA. But it's not important. If you go to GitHub, if you want to start contributing with a project, GitHub has a super nice feature with its good first issue. You only need to tap on it and you will see issues that the people has leveled as a good starting point. So, if you say, no, I don't want to get help from anyone, I will go, I'm going to go forward alone, you can start with this. We are in almost all the CNCF projects. So, it's a good point for starting if you want to start with code. Again, the slide. Good job. That's it. Perfect. Good. Yeah. So, this is our last slide. Any questions? Any comments? Any doubts? Are we liars? Anything you want to say? Any questions? Yes. Give me a microphone. Cool. Hello, Bard. It's Jorge. Yes. Good job. Thank you for this. I was interested in becoming a CNCF ambassador and Bard has helped me in so many ways, even before I became interested. And when you mentioned before that you were more of a content creator and you never had needed to create a line of code, what about certifications? Because I was advised, if I did, because I'm not a developer, I'm sort of non-technical, but I'm involved. I was advised to maybe seek like getting a certification in something. I would, like I said, it would be a distortion if I said it wouldn't be a good idea to do it. And I also probably should do it. Why? Because even anything is for me, it wouldn't be about passing the exam so much or just be about doing the training so that I could provide better help to people who need it. So if someone, in my case, it's been a, as with many things in my life, it's not the most linear path right here. I learned this over there. I interview people. I hear what they're talking about. A lot of what I do is when I go running, I'll listen to Kubernetes podcasts of different kinds. And that way, even it's almost kind of like osmosis that like the concepts just start registering. But it is true that doing something like the KCNA would definitely not be a bad idea. Even if it's like, all right, because this is a great thing too. It provides opportunities if you don't understand a concept, then you ask a question in a Slack channel where someone probably knows the answer. I mean, yeah, you can always Google, Stack Overflow, things like that. But as in general, make community part of the solution, make community part of the growing process. In my case, it's been through my work, which is talking to a lot of people. And so they're teaching me, even though a lot of times it can go completely over my head. But I do think that the certification process is a good one, even if it's not even to pass or to get the certificate, but just to have a framework to be acquiring that knowledge. So yeah, it's a good question. And now that you've said it, I should get to try it myself. Good? Yeah. I would like to add that for me, the knowledge about the certification is an implementation detail in his case, for instance. He's doing a great contribution without knowledge, without the knowledge about what is a pot or what is a deployment. I'm sure that he knows what is, but maybe he doesn't know how he's deployed or how it looks in a Jamel. But that's in an implementation detail because you can use Jamel or maybe it's grabbed by a Helm chart or maybe it's generated by a randomly script that someone has created. I am in favor of it or I agree with certification. I think that they are useful, but even they are useful, I think that are not required. That's my point. No, recommendable? For sure. And I'm the one who said with the certification, the important stuff is not the title, it's the road. The knowledge that you will get during the road because the title is a paper. It's like, no, you did that 10 years ago. Okay, nice. The important thing is the road with the certification. And I think that having more certification paths and more stuff for learning is always good. Yep, I agree. And like I said, I think it was in 2022. Was that in KubeCon or 2021 or 2020? I can remember KubeCon LA. That's when the KCNA certification came out with that specific idea of trying to make it more accessible for people that weren't necessarily going to go for the Certified Kubernetes Administrator but to be able to get something a little bit below that. So yeah. So no, I think it's, I think it's, I definitely think it's helpful. I don't think it's harmful. Other questions, comments, concerns, doubts, who wants to become an ambassador apart from Colleen? Anybody else? Oh, good. Very, very good. That's good. Any other questions? Like I said, we're very easy to find on Slack. This person wants to become an ambassador, but we can talk later. But like I said, we're very easy to find. All right. When in doubt, contact us on Slack. There's no question that's going to be too basic. Nothing to be worried about. This person in the back of the room should also become an ambassador. Hey, that's it. Yeah. He's an awesome person. I'm also very active here in the local ecosystem. But like I said, really take advantage of the fact that there are so many people who are more than happy to help you get established that are more, that really want to know what your concerns are, what your doubts are, what can be done better. Get that feedback out in the open. All right. Because if not, it's pretty difficult to know how we can improve. That being said, I think we're pretty good together. Yeah. Thank you very much. Dance moves that I can't compete with. Cool. Thank you, everybody.