 Hey, welcome back to another episode of the non-profit show. We're really excited because you know what this means, Friday, and we are here with one of our favorites, Mujiquaja, one of the intrepid, I'm going to call you an intrepid trainer from Fundraising Academy. And I think more interestingly enough, co-founder of American Muslim Community Foundation, which if you ever get a chance to go back to our archive and watch or listen to the episode that we did with Mujiquaja, specifically about his work with the Community Foundation, how he started, the element of faith and fundraising, faith and giving. It was Mujiquaja, one of my top 10 favorites and we've done over a thousand shows, my friend. That's awesome. Thank you. So that's saying a lot. That's like amazing. But anyway, Mujiquaja is here today. Again, we want to make sure that we give our gratitude to all of our presenting sponsors. They include Bloomerang, American Non-Profit Academy, Non-Profit Thought Leader, Staffing Boutique, Your Part-Time Controller, 180 Management Group, Fundraising Academy at National University, JMT Consulting, Non-Profit Nerd, and Non-Profit Tech Talk. These are the folks that join us day in and day out. We're doing some new things that are really exciting. We formed a national panel of experts that are going to serve as co-host. So you're going to see more people, more voices. These folks are from around the country, so they'll bring not only their knowledge but their regional knowledge, right? Because we do things differently in different parts of the country. And so you can really be learning from even more people as we navigate our fifth year and more than 1,000 shows. Okay, Mujiquaja, city withhold. I got a woman up and Candace left this message, but I took off the city because I didn't want, sometimes I do that because I want to kind of protect the person that is asking questions. And the question is this, I've been asked to meet with one of our large donors and his trust advisor. I don't know if I should bring someone else along to the meeting or not. I'm a bit concerned that the trust advisor will need some legal questions answered. Super interesting. I bet you've had this with the Community Foundation. Sure. Candace, this is a great question and an opportunity to look into your advisors or board members and diversifying the skill set because you can possibly find an estate planning lawyer who would be able to help in these types of situations. And if you can't add them on to your advisory council or a board, if you don't have a plant giving officer on the team, trying to bring an additional teammate could be helpful. But don't ever fear of being able to say, you know, I'm going to have to ask our team and I'll get back to you. So feel free to take the meeting, be empowered, do your best. And if you don't have the capacity to bring somebody on with the skill set, then do that. And the last thing I would say is there may be a local law firm that can provide pro bono services as well. Super smart. So you do see this as probably that estate planning conversation, that that's the direction that this is probably going, right? Yeah, you know, if they have a trust, they have amassed a certain level of wealth or are financially savvy and learning the tricks of avoiding taxes. And if they want to know the best way to give or if the organization has different policies for gifts coming from trust, it might be a little more complex. How often in your career have you had this come up? And then you've had to, I love your advice, you know, say, I don't know, but I'll get back to you. I mean, at this point in your career, do you still have to do that? Or is that just something that we have to, we have to own and just say, we're not going to know everything, but we can run it down. We can research or like, do you know what I'm trying to say is like, yeah, it's how will that go? It's still one of my favorite answers, even if I know the question just to buy myself time. Oh, I have to run that by my board. Or, you know, when I was at Red Cross, it was definitely a larger institution and there were certain layers of, you know, not red tape, essentially, but just certain layers that you have to run things by a director, a chief development officer, somebody on the national team, somebody on the corporate team that deals with something. So when there are more layers involved, you may need to have that buffer of time. So definitely when I was at Red Cross, it was perhaps a little more common and would meet with high net worth individuals that wanted to do a gift a certain way or at a certain time. But at American Muslim Community Foundation, I still like to use that. You know, I need to get back to you and it buys me time to clear my mind, think through it, chat with a board member for their advice and then get back to the donor, even if I already know what answer I want to give. So strategically, though, I'm just thinking ahead, is this a mechanism to get an additional meeting? Definitely. Yeah, even if it's a follow up over email or a phone call or another touch point to give the donor more confidence, right? So it's better than saying, I don't know. What's better to say is I have to run that by some of my other colleagues, they'll be able to make a better informed decision. Or even if you want to say, I don't know, I think the donor would appreciate you saying, I don't know, rather than making something up. Yeah, well, you want to be accurate. And especially when you're bringing in, you know, an advisor or somebody who's going to probably, if this is a, you know, trust or the quest kind of situation, you're going to have to be working with that person. Because if the donor passes, and then the management of the stewardship goes to somebody else, right? This is a relationship that's not going to go away, chances are. Maybe they want to add your organization as a beneficiary or distribute a one-time large lump sum or come up with a pledge. Like, so there are other factors involved that you would have to consider of how your organization does your accounting. Do you book it all in this calendar year or following so on and so forth? Gotcha. You know, it kind of makes me think, and we'll go on to our next question that, you know, no two donors are the same. No two situations are the same. I mean, you can't just, I mean, everything seems to be nuanced, especially when you're talking with a large donor. I mean, is that fair to say in your experience? Definitely. Yeah, every situation is different. And even if you think you've seen it all before, you'll surprise yourself. I love it. Well, let's go on to our next surprise because this is an interesting question. I keep hearing the term cause selling. When I use it with my board, they seem confused. How do I explain the concept so that they buy in to the process that our development staff is using? Overland Park. One thing I will say about Overland Park is AMCF has several donors from there and I've never been. So I would love to visit name withheld. So invite me out. And in terms of cause selling, you know, the name could be off-putting to some of the board members if they're development traditionalists and say, you know, we're not really trying to sell the cause, but we want to, you know, sell the mission or, you know, we want to be relationship centric. But that's really what cause selling is all about. So if you look at the cause selling basics and the fundamentals of fundraising that are listed in the textbook through Fundraising Academy, you will see that, you know, it's all about relationship driven strategies to improve your cultivation and stewardship and solicitation. So I would start there. I would look at the tidbits. I would share our portal that has hundreds and dozens of resources for you regularly available all free. So that might be a good way to share more about the cause selling cycle by engaging in the free online portal. You know, Louie, I think it to me, this is like a bigger issue in that in all my board service over pretty much four decades of my life, I've only had one board where they spent time on Fundraising 101, Fundraising 101 even, you know, it's, it seems like we, we don't, we don't feel like it's appropriate or we don't want to take the time. I don't know why, but we don't ever seem to train our boards in what this process is. And yet the boards are like, you know, raise money, raise money, raise money. I mean, all their decisions are based on what the revenue is. And I don't know why there's like this disconnect. Because I think if you just said what you said to any board, 1.8 million nonprofits registered in this country, a lot of them would be like, what? You know, they wouldn't, they'd be like, oh, that makes sense. But I didn't think there was like a plan or I didn't think that there was a structure. I mean, why do you think there's such a disconnect between these two very real things that have to get done at the end of the day in order for a nonprofit to survive? Some of it could be the mentality of I'm donating my time and expertise. Other organizations that have been part of it has been, you know, I'm doing this as a favor to the founder or I'm, you know, this, that, the other. I've been looking at how to build and create that culture of philanthropy for some of my clients as well at their organizations and it's hard. You know, each organization, I often ask them to think of their why and go back to why are you on the board? What's your connection to the organization? Some of these prospecting questions that we talk about, right? Why did you first give to the organization? How are you connected? What's your story? How does the mission speak to you? These are things that we should be asking the board members as well and really getting them to think about their why. Yeah, I love that and man, I think what you just said is magical. We are not doing that enough and I think when we don't, I love that this person writes my board seems confused. You know, that's to me like a pretty big level of confusion, right? I mean, this should be something that they're in on. Whether they're like sitting down or, you know, pursuing donors themselves, they should be understanding what the process is so they can at least support that development team. It seems like it's, I don't think, I know that name withheld is, this is stressful, but I think this is going on across America big time, big time, you know. And when you said that 1.8 million nonprofits, I just thought to myself there's four and a half to five million board members then like that's minimum, right? So that's wild that there are millions of people serving on boards and how can we more effectively build stronger boards and build stronger organizations and that's one of the reasons why I love being at Fundraising Academy because we can provide some of these fundraising best practices to these organizations. Yeah, it's really an interesting thing. And you know, I think for me when I think about it, I mean, these are people that really from their heart want to do well, right? They want to do right by their organization, but they're kind of hogtied by knowledge and training and they don't know. And in the for-profit sector and how they live their lives and their work-a-day world is pretty different than how it works. And sometimes just by time, you know, they'll join the board meetings, but outside of that they can't do much else or even they struggle to make the board meetings. So yeah. Well, good question and really interesting feedback from Muhy. Okay, let's go to another interestingly enough board question. This comes to us from Ramon in Miami and he writes, we are trying to determine the number of board meetings we schedule for the 2025 calendar. Yes, we're starting on this early. I applaud you. Yay team. This is great. How do you feel about board meetings held quarterly versus monthly? Yeah, I mean, just thinking to the last point I made about board time and, you know, that being a significant asset, you know, you definitely need core board members that are putting in their work. And then there are others that are maybe experts in certain areas and maybe they're better as advisory council or ad hoc members. But when it comes to a president, a vice president, a secretary, a treasurer, those are maybe some of your core people that should be meeting more regularly in a committee. So I've seen quarterly meetings work for some organizations that maybe have a longer standing healthier, stronger organization. But even at AMCF, we're monthly. And sometimes it's a struggle to do that. But I would think that if your committees are meeting monthly or biweekly, then maybe your entire board doesn't need to meet monthly. Because then it's, you know, very, you know, maybe they're committed to giving three to five hours a month only. But how can they do more than that? Or do they have capacity to do more than that? So that's something upfront before we recruit a board member. We're very clear of what our monthly timeframe and expectations are between committee meetings and board meetings. Right. I love hearing you say that because I don't think enough organizations do that. Yeah. And there's a board orientation. There's a board disclosure. There's a conflict of interest. There's other forms that they are signing a contract for saying that they can try to do this for three years at a minimum. So, you know, it is a significant commitment that board members make. I'm a believer in, at least, I'm a believer in monthly, except maybe you, like, you know, you do, depending on your, the culture of your community, you know, you take off August or you take off June or, you know, something like that. Every other month, you know, if it's not monthly, then why not every two months? Yeah, I like that. Now, I have not heard, that's, I like that a lot. I think that's a good, and that's a really meat in the middle kind of place. I've got another question for you before we go on. Are you seeing, I'll tell you, I'm seeing the diminishment of executive committees. We used to have like a stronger, it seems to me, a stronger management group. Like you said, we need a core group of leaders, but we used to put those more in like an executive committee, and they would meet, you know, frequently, sometimes, you know, during, during different times of the year, maybe twice a month or whatever, and then kind of roll things up to the main board. Are you seeing that? Because it's kind of somewhat falling out of favor, it seems like to me. Yeah, I think it depends on what size of a board you have, right? AIMS staff, we only have six board members, and there's only two general members and four leadership positions, but we also have monthly meetings. So everybody's kind of in that same tune, but I could see an executive committee being useful if the board meetings are less frequent, then they are touching bays at least more frequently. Yeah, it's very interesting. Well, Ramon, no matter what happens, yay team on getting the 2025 calendar set. I love hearing that, and the reality is it's right around the corner. So, okay, again, another board question. This is kind of an interesting one. Can you explain the difference between board dues and a board member give or get policy? I'm a new board member of a nonprofit and I don't quite understand the difference. Jacob from Houston, Texas. You know, when I hear you say that, there's board dues and board don'ts, right? But when it comes to board dues, I would say that it's, in my understanding, pretty similar to a board give or get policy. But board dues may be more old school in the sense that traditionally, if people are paying to be on the board, you know, that to me would be a no-no, but you want it to be more of the sense that they're giving and want to philanthropically be there as opposed to a membership that they're paying to be on the board. So, whether it's a chamber of commerce, that might be more board doozy than a board member give or get policy. So that's just my understanding of it, but maybe some of your insight will make me think differently. Yeah, so I have a different take on this, and I love, for those of you listening and not necessarily watching, it's D-U-E-S. Yeah, you're right. Do's and don'ts. Do's, for me, are the funding mechanism for conducting the meeting. So board do's might be, you know, a hundred bucks a year or something. And so that might pay for a board management portal. It might pay for meals. It might pay for travel or if you have to rent a room to, you know, have a board meeting or something like that. It's a minimal amount, generally, because it's just funding the actual goings-ons of that board, right? Now, if your board is like, you know, jetting off to Mexico or Hawaii for their annual board retreat, then that board do might be a little bit higher, right? You know, I mean, and I have heard of organizations that do that. I have not been on a board that does that, but yeah. But the give or get is a really, it's becoming controversial, or I guess maybe it always has. And that is that there is a number, and generally it's in the thousands of dollars. And it is saying, okay, every year you're gonna give, you're gonna make a donation of $5,000, for example, or you're going to secure a $5,000 gift. So that gift might come from your company. It might be that you held an event. It might be that you got, you know, building relationships and worked with somebody to get them to, you know, make a commitment. So it puts that board member more into the role of a fundraiser. And I don't know about you, but I've seen where board members that have given get, give or get, go after, you know, not maliciously, not maliciously, but they go after a relationship that's already being stewarded by the organization. And then there's, you know, some cause for, you know, some problems, so. Sure. I think, you know, portfolio management, I would be a fan of giving board members a portfolio of their own network. And if you do include some people from your, you know, donor base, that's fine. They're writing the thank you letters, they're doing that time over time. So I can see how it can get hairy in the give or get. But I think it's a good idea, even if it's only 15 to 20 donors to give board members a small portfolio. Okay. Mind blown. I've never heard of that, but I love it. That's genius because, you know, to me and my mind, Muki, it also gets them in the process to see what everybody's doing. I love that. Okay. That's like my huge takeaway for today. Thank you. We talk all the time about having board members do phone calls, having board members write thank yous, but why not take it a step further? Yeah, that's super cool. You know, I, I served a lot, you know, in my community as a volunteer and, and even a board member before I really understood what the portfolio system was like and how it functioned because that wasn't brought into my knowledge, right? I think sometimes it seems like it's a little secretive and or maybe that was just me, but yeah. Well, this I love, I love love love. I'm going to totally, totally be thinking about that all weekend. Another thing I want to think about this weekend is that cultivate has sold out. What the heck? Yeah. No, we're super stoked. You know, a month out from the program, we're sold out. Last year, we did sell out, but it was closer to the date. So there's a wait list. So I will say if you were planning on it, you can still sign up for the wait list. That's obviously free. And then if attendees let us know they can't attend, we'll move the people on the wait list off. So yeah, looking forward to it though. It's going to be good. Well, I got a man up and tell you that I had somebody call me and say, Hey, they're sold out. Can you, can you make a call to the head cheese and try and get me on? And I was like, you know, I'll make that call, but they're sold out. So this is like a function of space. And it's like legit. You can't just, it's not a fake thing, right? I mean, a lot of planning has gone into it. So yeah, I mean, best thing to do would be get on that wait list. Yeah. Okay. Oh my gosh. Well, yay team for fundraising academy to do this. This is a huge thing. People are still trying to get back into, you know, having events and gathering. And, you know, people from all over the country will be coming to this. And so that's exciting. Well, good. Well, congratulations and congratulations to the fundraising academy team. I knew that you would sell out because you had last year, but I didn't think it would be this soon. So, wow. Good news. Yeah, really good news. Really good news. Well, Mohi Kuwaja, trainer at Fundraising Academy, also the co-founder of the American Muslim Community Foundation. Check out Fundraising Academy's amazing, amazing resources at fundraising-academy.org. And you can learn about all the different things that they're doing. And maybe get on that waiting list. I'm just saying. But it's pretty, pretty powerful. Mohi, I always love spending time with you. You always teach me something new. You give me a different point of view. And so thank you. Thank you. Thank you for being a part of this conversation today. Really been interesting. Yeah. Hey, again, thanking our presenting sponsors, and they include Blue Morang, American Nonprofit Academy, Nonprofit Thought Leader, Staffing Boutique, Your Part-Time Controller, 180 Management Group, Fundraising Academy, JMT Consulting, and Nonprofit Tech Talk. You know, these are the folks that join us day in and day out, and they really make a difference in all of our communities. So we want to say thank you. All right. You know what I'm going to say as we end every episode, Mohi? We leave with this message, and that is to stay well, so you can do well. We'll see you back here again next time. Thank you so much, Mohi. Thanks. Bye.