 Somebody make me come through, I'll always be there, as frightened as you, to help us survive, being alive, being... Mm-hmm. That lady. That lady has some beautiful legs. So I know Marzied Oats, right? And I know also that Dozied Oats, but I haven't the foggiest what little lambs eat. Welcome back to Life Lessons in Film. Do you foresee Operation Condor, Armored for Gods? That should be your next one. My coffee is out of reach. Welcome back to Life Lessons in Film. Hello. Today we're going to make sense of life through marriage story. Mm-hmm. So juicy. It follows a couple going through a divorce. And it's basically Scarja's character. She's at the point of no return. They need to get a divorce, ask her family, sister to serve her husband, the divorce papers, and then it's the process of them needing to get lawyers and them trying to figure out the whole process and how going through a divorce can really destroy an already destroyed marriage and just what it puts two people through. It's ugly as it gets at one point where there's two lawyers having a proxy war, a proxy argument, picking out all the deepest, darkest secrets that only the couple know but because they share all this stuff with the lawyers. Now it's like the two lawyers know all this stuff and they're just ripping the other person apart, very personal intimate things and using it against them. So even after that, they end up coming to actually a pretty good negotiation between the two sides and then now they're trying to figure out a way to have a balanced life. This is what grinds my gears. These two people, Nicole and Charlie, should not have gotten divorced. Let me not say should because, you know, I do not have the authority to determine who's, you know. It is not vested in you. Okay, let me go. Yeah, I feel like they should have gone through therapy. You know, like obviously things had gotten to that point but I don't feel like they'd gotten to that impasse where you kind of like, this is the point of no return. The reason I say that is because of how they are actually moved through the whole divorce like you were saying, the divorce lawyers just go super, super dark and then in the end they basically just make the decision to fight for each other and what they, the two of them committed to in terms of how they would actually divorce, ultimately, amicably. That's what they wanted. And I remember even the lawyer at the end, she's like, Nicole asks her lawyer, you know, you did ask for 50-50, right, custody. And she's like, no. 55-45? 55-45 because I don't want him going to people and telling them that, you know, we want. You know what I mean? Obviously, Nicole is visibly frustrated and in the end, I remember, it was her night, she's like, he seems tired, why don't you take him home? We had a dinner and he's like, it's your night. No, it's okay. So that to me says these people were not out of love with each other, first of all. And they were also immature and empathetic enough as far as I'm concerned to actually work through their issues. They understand each other, they have such a deep respect and love for each other. And I understand that you could love someone and then there's no prospect of it working because I think a lot of people, you do end up and you find yourself in a relationship and you are in love with someone, but there are lots of reasons that we turn to love. You know, maybe it's just because you're lonely or because they remind you of someone or something and you feel that, well, I guess at this point, maybe one could say is infatuation. But at the end of the day, there are lots of reasons we love people and sometimes it doesn't justify actually being with those people. But with Nicole and Charlie, I was like, what? Especially the scene at the end when Charlie is reading what? A cold robe of the therapist, the counseling therapist, the divorce therapist or whatever. And it's a lot of very sweet, complimentary stuff, you know. And we've never read it before because she didn't want to read it in front of the therapist at the beginning of the movie. And then Nicole seeing him would read it and everyone was getting very emotional and sad. The great thing about the movie... No, you go. No, you go. My thing is divergent. I feel like my thing is divergent too. Yeah, I think they're always divergent. The great thing about the movie for me was that I felt like it was quite an accurate portrayal. I mean, a fair portrayal because a lot of times with these kinds of movies, there's always, there has to be a villain, right? You know, and a person who is taking advantage of it. This was the second time watching this movie. And I remember the first time watching it, I felt so upset about how Charlie was being treated. You know what I mean? Yeah. Because I felt like... You're like, Nora's taking advantage from the beginning, her lawyer, Nicole's lawyer. And then Nicole does seem to be changing the game a lot. Charlie seems to be, no, no, she wouldn't do this. She wouldn't do this. She keeps asking for more, trying to take more. And you're like, that does seem pretty manipulative. Exactly. And then you find out that, oh, Charlie cheated. And then you're like, oh no. You know what I mean? Because I mean that Charlie was the bad guy. But then later you find out that, well, you know, as they're talking about it, he's like, you know, you weren't sleeping with me. You know, like you weren't giving me love, obviously, right? So then you discover that, you know what? The cheating was most likely a symptom of something. You know what I mean? That was already happening. Yeah. The fact of her feeling like she wasn't seen or respected is what for her, she led, what led her to make the decision to divorce him. It's really tricky, you know? Because her feelings about why she ended up pursuing divorce, I felt like they both were in the same kind of position. And these are things that kind of come up throughout the movie. I remember later, as they're arguing at Charlie's apartment, he reveals that, you know what? Like you wanted to get married so early. I was scared, you know? Yeah. So basically, obviously he loved her and got married because that's something that she wanted. But he wasn't, he didn't feel ready for it. You know what I mean? Yeah. You know, my life changed. I had all of these, you know, in my 20s, I could have done ABC, but you know what I mean? Yeah. But I kind of, I didn't take advantage that I feel like I wasted my 20s because I wanted to be true to you. Exactly. And we got married at that point. Yeah. So then maybe had that kind of resentment. At the same time, you know, you're like, okay, you could see where he feels like, well, he wasn't ready, pressured into it. Lots of loss in terms of his own ambition. Loss, like, because he was already like, it's just his career was skyrocketing. And of course, he was getting a lot of attention then from people. He's like, there were a lot of women that were interested in him. But then, so it's like, on one hand, you're like, okay, he felt like he wasn't ready. But at the same time, you're like, well, I was young. I would have wanted to still like hook up more with people. And it's like, my 20s, my 20s, you know, you know, so what? Like, you know, to say that you, you wasted your 20s. What does that even mean? I don't know. You didn't waste them because then you got married to someone that you love. And then, you know, I could say the same for Nicole because even as he's talking about like, he's not really hankering for the women that he didn't have, you know, this was when he was talking about, they were talking about the relationship. Basically kind of pointing out that if women were an actual issue, I could have done it in my 20s when women were throwing themselves at me. Me cheating with one person, having that fling like once, once off, it was not because I'm out here trying to, you know, willy nilly enjoy willy nilly. For me, what I see with these two people is that both of them had their own needs that they never brought to light. You know what I mean? They never actually shed light on what they feel and what concerns that they have. So for him, he feels like he lost critical years of his life where he could have pursued his career and his ambitions to a greater degree than he did. It's not to say that he didn't love her. It's just because of these opportunities that when you get married, there are lots of compromises you make and you are an individual person. And maybe that's where on her end, she feels like he never compromised the beat of their, of the drum of their relationship always went to his beat, right? She was always playing second fiddle, always like going along with whatever he wanted to do. But maybe in his mind, he was still compromising because he had even loftier goals or wanted more freedom that way. So then he thinks, I'm doing lots of compromising. In her mind, she's like, I have no person. I have no self. I don't know who I am. I don't know what I, you know. Exactly. So that's where I'm like, these people had the same exact concerns. So none of them talked about the concerns that they had. They weren't vulnerable with each other, you know, about this is where I'm at in my life. But they had this expectation that the other person would actually be understanding of the sacrifices they made without actually coming together and discussing that. So many things that she was good at, so many things that he was good at, they kind of, they balance each other out in a lot of ways. And on top of that, they're very communicative. Like it, well, obviously I'm not going to say communicative because clearly didn't, you know, they care about each other and they make the effort to give to each other. Which I think that if actually they were communicative, then things would have been fine because they, both of them, you know what I mean? I remember when the gate was, the gate, the power is out and I can't close the gate. And then he comes around, you know what I mean? And then he's like, I'm just looking for hair versus my hair. I was like, you're looking pretty shaggy. And okay, I'll handle it. You know what I mean? I mean, it might be one of those situations some people say that that happened in real life where they're kind of better in divorce. People say that. Yeah. People always say that. And I'm not saying people always say that. And it's true. Some people are better in divorce and some people end things without fighting for things. Relationships are damn hard. You know, that's the thing about love. Like love is a mix of conflict, constant hurts, huge expectation. Once you fall in love with someone, the bar for what they need to give you is like, is extremely high. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. And that's why so many people understandably struggle with that commitment because you now become the financier, house cleaner, the confidant, the best friend, the lover, the everything put on one person. Exactly. Yeah. Expectations are high because you need a lot from that person. Yeah. Realistic expectations are high. Yeah. Realistic expectations are high, but there are also a lot of unrealistic expectations. For example, Charlie is not seeing me and it does not allow me to pursue my dreams. But whose responsibility is it? Is it Charlie's responsibility to have Nicole pursue her own ambitions? No, it's not. It's hers. And so if anybody should be upset at anyone, it's Nicole and herself for allowing the situation to go for so long. I mean, she probably... She was also young, I imagine, at the time too. And then I think a lot of people can get very lost in the relationship. It's easy to lose yourself, I think. It's easy to fall into this kind of healthy or unhealthy kind of enmeshed, weird one entity thing. And then, you know, a lot of people then have that struggle to also be interdependent, right? Or whatever, like have your own, maintain your own sense of self. It's a tough thing to have that balance of being independent, but also being as interdependent as there for the other person or as supportive as you need to be. There are three people in their relationships that we often talk about. There's you. There's the person you're married to. And there's the relationship itself, right? The person you are outside of the entity that is your marriage. The person you are, it's your responsibility. As much as you wish your partner could read your mind. You're going to have needs pop up that maybe we're always there or you're gonna have new needs because the needs are always coming in and out as the waves do. You're gonna have to let your partner know about the new needs. Yeah, 100%. And I'm not even saying that it's just Nicole here who was problematic. Who was problematic in that sense. Because she's only finding out about what Charlie felt about his own needs that were met in this relationship and what things he feels that he sacrificed. Both of them carried all of this animosity towards each other and resentment towards each other. And yet they never actually expressed themselves. And even like the little things which naturally come up because humans are complicated and maybe even petty or kind of envious or judgy people where she talks about she loves that Charlie loves being a dad which is something that you would think she's so lucky she found a guy that loves all the annoying things about being dad the tantrums of getting up when the kid is like he loves all that stuff and you're like is this person even real? But then even a kind of a noisier at times how much she likes it because they're kind of like is he better parent than me or how can you enjoy it? It's phony or something you shouldn't be enjoying but no one likes that stuff. And that's just human stuff that can pick away at you if it's also not something that's like if she told him like Charlie I gotta say like it's weird and like maybe I'm a bad person for this or something but like sometimes it annoys me that you love this stuff and then you can talk about it and you can smooth it out but you know He loves being a dad he loves all the things you're supposed to hate like the tantrums that waking up at night I had a bad dream I had a bad dream It's almost annoying how much he likes it but then it's mostly nice Dad I remember the song when Charlie was saying Oh my God I was gonna look that up being alive I don't know but we gotta look it up because it broke me and even now like I'm just getting super bad It completely kind of wraps up their situation Exactly and the heartbreak of it the relationship they have afterwards they're still friends Being alive also To me the relationship ended because two people were disgruntled I think the greatest gift that you can give to your ex as a parent and as a human being is that understanding that as much as I don't like you right now you're still my kid's dad or you're still my kid's mom and so that is something that I have to respect not for you not for me but for my kid I really felt for Charlie even where he goes to visit the family home Nicole's family home where she's living right now the pictures are not there of him anymore because he used to be you know on the gallery wall but he's not there anymore those kinds of things it's kind of like feels like you're getting raised That's the thing of them realizing that you meld your lives together so much and then when you have to split that apart it's like you are cutting a big chunk of yourself off as well and like yeah when he first gets served the divorce papers and he's very close with his mother-in-law Nicole's mother and it's an awkward thing because understandably Nicole's frustrated that her mother is still like Charlie I love you we do things together we hang out sometimes we're very goofy with each other and I get where she's like yeah but you can't look at Charlie the same anymore you can't interact with them the same anymore it's a tough thing because it's kind of like you'd wish that you'd have your mother-in-law like your husband that much so then you know that's kind of the idea and then yeah and then it's like so it's complicated in another way it's hard if you have in-laws that don't like your partner but then if you divorce then I guess it's easier but then in the reverse she actually had the best situation there but then it's harder when you do get divorced that was also really heartbreaking honestly because there's so many relationships ending there was no juice for divorce you know what I mean people who hurt each other every single day on purpose because maybe they're angry I'm not really sure I mean you know and they're sticking it out and I'm not saying that they should I'm not saying they should stick it out what I'm saying is that I'm just confused by what it is I don't know if I'd say there is no juice for divorce yeah I'd say give me the grounds well I think I think the grounds for the juice I think Nicole clearly got to the point where she felt there is no other option so I think that she had grounds she felt there was juice now I think that there's some completely unsavable right well here's the qualm yes what's the qualm as I said what is the juice your juice I have qualms in the sense that you know how a lot of times you'll be like I can't read your mind gotta tell me what's going on and then we've talked about it where I'm like I reflect on I cannot be upset with you because I never told you you know what I mean and you only figure out that I'm upset because I'm like I'm on top and then you realize okay what did I do you kind of trying to figure out what did I do oh my god is that fair that is for me at that time when I'm upset with you I feel like I have a qualm and if I then make the decision this is I'm like I'm you know ending things because of this issue that I had that I never told you about do you know what I mean that's the thing I feel like both parties do that to each other because even when Nicole as Charlie says stopped being more intimate or like being more intimate to him Charlie should have talked about that instead of letting that play out to the extent that he then seeks comfort and intimacy into me I see into me I see with the other lady you know what I mean both of these parties nobody is is absolved from my court of law not even no reason justice court of qualm my court of qualm nobody is absolved from my court of qualm both Nicole Nicole and Nicole and Charlie both Nicole and Charlie would have served time yes they're both guilty I feel that but I mean I wouldn't say there's no juice I think there was some juice but the juice was exaggerated they really diluted the juice with a lot of water and at the end it's just barely flavored water at that point you know they really dragged out the juice and they could have still made good punch with it I think I'm getting a little high most of it I'm like I'm trying but the ingredients for a good punch were there and they did not take advantage of that you know I am utterly desiccated at this point but yeah that's some of the stuff that we got thought about from Marriage Story but we'd love to hear what you guys think more what we'd really like we're just curious to know who watches our stuff and who likes the same kind of movies because we love movies but we only have each other really we're just curious to know if they're human beings if you're out there and you like it just say yes just leave a yes do you reflect on movies like this do you when you watch movies sit down and just kind of like reflect on your life everything that happened in the movie does it feel like you know these people or you're only watching Marriage Story because of the drinking games like every time they get upset with each other you take a shot you know I mean I guess you could do that do you just need to make a drinking game out of Marriage Story sure you could do it if you tried but yeah