 And that was changed by Polvo from their album Siberia. Got a man with me right now who knows all about change and and being changed. Joey Carbstrong, animal rights activist from Adelaide, is determined to help pave the way for a more compassionate vegan future, formerly part of a criminal gang and struggling addiction. He has made a remarkable U-turn in his proudly celebrating four years of sobriety. He's now an inspirational speaker, vegan educator, animal liberation activist. And do we miss anything out there, Joey? No, that's about it. That'll do. It takes a few boxes. So tell us a little, you know, that sounds like quite an exciting story in a kind of shantaram-esque vibe. Tell us a little of your formative years. My formative years. So I spent about 12 years lost my way. So I was a bit of a lost youth. And I found solitude in the drug use and hanging out with people that I thought were like me. And we used to, you know, drink alcohol and go to parties and stuff like that. And as it progressed, it got a little bit more serious. I got older, the gangs got more organized and it got more dangerous. And my drug use spiraled out of control and my mental state wasn't very good at all. And it all come to a head when I was caught with a firearm down my pants. So that's where the, that is where the change started to happen. Really? That was the instigator of the change getting caught? Getting caught, it was a blessing in disguise, I feel. Yeah, definitely. Made it real? It did, yeah. So, you know, other people would have turned to other things to change their life around. Why did you turn to veganism? Well, that was a story that happened while I was on house arrest awaiting my sentencing. When I was originally caught, I was put on house arrest, meaning I couldn't leave the house. And I sort of stuck with myself. And I was still drinking alcohol. I was stealing the gangs. But what ended up happening is I put on a lot of weight. I got really, really, really fat. I mean, put on 25 kilos in such a short amount of time. And I was very depressed. And I remember looking for a diet on the internet to lose weight. And I come across a raw foodist who was doing fruits and vegetable juices. And he was, he was quite a, I thought he was quite a strange guy, but he had a lot of things to say that were significant to me. And one of the things stuck with me. And he said, when you eat suffering and death, it becomes you. It manifests as disease and fear in your body. And I don't know if that's true, but it made sense to me at that time, like actions have reactions. And it, the seeds stayed with me. And I continued on my path of partying and drinking and gangs until I was sentenced to jail. So I went into prison. And this was where the true epiphany happened, because it was the longest I had been sober for 12 years in my entire life. So yeah. Oh wow. Yeah. That's a, oh my goodness. So, so you were sober and obviously you're off the drugs because you were in, or maybe not necessarily. No, in prison you can, but it was frowned upon. So I stayed sober and I trained religiously twice a day. And I've seen the world with new eyes. I've seen the world with new eyes. I've seen it from a different perspective. I've seen that my life was just a collection of all the mistakes I'd made in my past and it led me to there. And I'd seen the people around me and I'd see them doing five years, 10 years, life for one mistake they'd made one night. And I was just like, this, this is where it all comes to a head. And I didn't want to be there. And I started to really wake up. And when I was released, I was released on something called parole. So it was another obstacle for me for my drug use because they, urine test you. So I had, I was forced into sobriety and about two months into my parole, I was having a conversation with my mum about smoking. You shouldn't be smoking. You know, I thought I was this beacon of light since I'd been forced to be sober. And I was criticising her. And she said, you know, there's a lot of biases people have that they don't change. And when she said that, I reflected. And when I reflected, I thought, you know, I've always known that it's hypocritical of me to say that I care about animals, but I have a stake on my plate. I've seen the hypocrisy and saying, save the whales, save the dolphins. But, you know, there's this cow, piece of a cow who'd probably suffered greatly, been boltgunned in the head on my plate. And I changed right there. And then I changed spontaneously the next day I went full vegan. And that was the beginning of my activist journey. Because often that does make it easier for some people doing that full cold turkey. Yeah. Rather than, you know, gradually sliding into things. The full cold turkey did it also. Cold tofu. Tofurkey. Cold tofurkey. So did that help? How did it becoming vegan? And also your, you know, your sobriety journey, did those two things help each other? One wouldn't have worked without the other. Without the sobriety, I wouldn't have had the clarity of mind to see things from a new perspective. And I started to be more altruistic. And I thought, you know, I've spent 12 years of my life taking and making people feel bad. And, you know, leaving a negative mark on people's lives. And I thought, you know, I had this fire inside of my heart. And I was like, being sober and being vegan isn't enough for me. Like I have to spread this fire. I have to leave a positive mark on people's lives. And every time I woke up from asleep, I was like, wow, I've just wasted another day. And I had this desire to do something and to speak out. And for anyone out there who has that desire, that's your purpose calling out to you and never deny yourself of that. You seem quite unusual, Joey, because I can imagine everybody else that you're running around with and, you know, your dodgy ears. I can't imagine them being so caring about critters and considering animal rights and veganism. Were you really different, then? Well, yeah, that's what some of my friends freak out. And they said, you know, you used to be this guy that used to be, you know, violent towards a human, and now you won't even hurt a chicken. And I'd say, well, you know what, the chicken never did nothing wrong to me or you, you know, and that's the way it is. And but I think caring about animals has that has sort of extended to my compassion for human beings. I think it's all connected. And I think, you know, if we care for something as insignificant as like in many people's eyes as a fish or a chicken, then that compassion is obviously going to extend to humans. And I think this is a big issue with us. We treat animals as objects and like they don't matter. And then that can extend to humans as well. Because you do talk about the innocence of animals. Can you just say the innocence of children or people? The reason I don't spend 100% of my time helping people is because I love helping people, getting them sober, inspiring them. Yeah, that is a very important part of what I do. But animals can't speak for themselves. They're so defenseless. And they're the most innocent, vulnerable beings on earth. Think of a chicken, how defenseless they are. And we heard them into these situations where they, they get pushed into a slaughterhouse. And I think that that's the biggest injustice. And even if you think of the most humane farm that you can think of where animals are treated really kindly, they get belly rubs and scratches. The ultimate betrayal is when the farmer puts them on that slaughterhouse trucks and sends them to their demise. And I see I've spoken to farmers and they really do care about their animals and they're living this contradiction in their heart. And then they don't like sending them to the slaughterhouse. It's not natural for us to be killers. It's natural for us to be compassionate beings. I think that's what human nature is. So now you take this, this message of a veganism and animal rights activism, you take it out to the message. What kind of response do you get? Well, I always be polite. And I have, you have to, when you're advocating for this message, because it's, you know, the majority are against you. And you need to be respectful of people. I've found that in my journey. You need to be respectful and understanding that, hey, four years ago, I was eating animal products three times a day more than anyone else. Like, so I understand where people are at. And it took me this amazing epiphany of sobriety and clarity to see it. And someone had to say something to me so that I could realize it. And so I keep that in mind. I never, I'm, I'm, I try with all my heart not to be aggressive. I try to be understanding and peaceful. And I try to ask people questions like, do you think there's a humane way to kill someone who doesn't want to die? You know, is there a humane way to do this? How would you feel if you're used for your body confined into a cage? And the only thing you had to look forward to at the end of your life is a gas chamber, which is what we do to pigs in Australia for the most humane method of stunning. So, you know, I ask people questions and I ask them to reflect and to engage in these questions and to ask themselves these things seriously. Have you ever seen the penny drop? Many times. Many times. And sometimes you just have to say one thing to someone. And they go, wow, I didn't, I've never even thought of that. I've never even thought of that. And you know, that is by design. They are showing us these pictures of green pastures and happy cows. And I'll tell you what, there's nothing happy about the dairy industry. There is a very sad place. And even to the point where there was a campaign saying there's no such thing as humane milk and they won. They won that campaign against the dairy industry because I was saying, wait a second, no, no, there's humane farms where this is happy. No, no, when you're separating families, you're taking calves away from mothers. That could never be humane. That is the most inhumane thing, one of the most inhumane things we do. It's not a competition, but separating a child from their mother so we can take her breast milk meant for her baby. I think that that can never be humane. So we spoke to that was Go Vegan World who ran that and we had a chat with them a few weeks ago. That's probably still on our website if you have a sniff around on the RTRFM website. So what have you been most surprised with in your journey and taking this message out to people? What surprised you the most? It surprised me at how exponentially this movement is growing by the year. I mean, two years I've been engaged in serious activism and lately it's been the last six months I've really started getting full on into it and I can see this movement growing so fast and people are waking up en masse. The thing about injustice is it can last a very long time, very thousands of years but it can't last forever because the truth is stronger than any lie that they can perpetuate through industry and through commercial and through advertisement and through programming and through tradition. The truth will shine through all of that and if you have integrity in your heart and you speak it with conviction people will listen. People aren't stupid and I know that. I know that they've just been inundated with conditioning just like I was. Just like every single person in school being taught that you need meat for protein, all of this condition is ingrained in people but people are smart enough to wake up and they have awareness and we need to give them credit for that. Oh my goodness, I can see why you're a great speaker, Joey. I'm so motivated. It's wonderful to see so much passion in somebody about something that, you know, it doesn't affect you directly. It's not your family that you're saving. It's the lives of innocents. It's really lovely to see that. That's a good point you make then. If it was your family, how would you feel? If it was your pet dog, how would you feel if I was stopping a slaughterhouse truck full of animals but they were your pets? They were your pet dogs. You would be saying, Joey, that is a noble thing. Thank you so much for speaking up for my dog before they get, you know, killed. You know, this is what I'm doing. I'm just looking at these pigs like the individual beings that they are and I can see the fear in their eyes and I ask people, I ask vegans out there, I ask anyone who cares about animals that what would you do if it was you? Would you want someone like me to speak out for you, you know? Absolutely. A voice for the voiceless. Thanks so much for Joey. Thank you. Joey Capstrong. And if you want to hear him speak again, he will be Wednesday at Rourke and Co. That's right. There's a little dinner and he'll be speaking and inspiring people to go vegan and support animal rights. It's just great. Thanks so much, Joey. Thank you, everyone. You're tuned into the MAG here on RTF M92.1, The Sound Alternative.