 after five orca, of course, and other than that, and, and our guest, Paul Cimanera. There you go. There you go. So, Sarah, we do have some amendments to the agenda, correct? Uh, yeah. Sarah, you probably want to start the recording. Thank you, Bill. Yes. Thank you. There we go. Why are we recording it? All by law, we have to record them. It's always recorded. It's always recorded. Orca's raising their hand. Does that mean anything? I don't know. They're not doing anything on my end. I don't even know. I've got a little raised hand on my... I think they want to talk. No, no, no. It was, it was, my cursor, when it's over, it turns into a little hand. Nothing. Because I just see... We'll presume that they're recording unless we hear from them. And we're recording the Zoom meeting anyway. So, um, so amendments, Sarah. Yeah. The whole agenda's just been kind of trashed, unfortunately. We got a letter from Lee Roseburg. I assume that was sent to the whole board. Did all you guys get that letter from Lee? Yeah. Yeah. They didn't understand it. It's not on the agenda. They're withdrawing the application right now, Peter. Oh, they're withdrawing it? We didn't. What caused that to happen? Does anybody know what's going on? I don't think the rest of the conservation commission received this yet. Well, it came over yesterday afternoon at 4.30. So it wasn't, it wasn't, uh, you know, it was kind of late. And Lee sent it to, um, looks like he just sent it to the select board, the treasurer, and Britt Hazelton. So I'll just read it into the record. It's a two-line thing. It just says, I appreciate the civil discourse and difference of opinions. This appears to be moot for the time being since there have been some wrinkles, and the VLT is withdrawing their application for the moment. They may decide to resubmit an application at a later date. Please note that this discussion can be removed from tomorrow's agenda. Okay. So we don't know what the wrinkles are. I'm sorry? We don't know what the wrinkles are. We don't know what the wrinkles are. I don't know what the wrinkles were. And the conservation commission, I guess, doesn't know yet, that you have as much information as we do. Well, that isn't Lee the chair, so he knows. He is the chair. He'll let us know about it, I'm sure. Right. Were you, George, were you here just for that item? Just for that item. Yeah, I'd like to stay for the village, but I can't. You can stay for as much as you want. I know. Well, we are going to have an executive session between the now and the, in the time we go to the planning commission, just FYI, George. I might come back on for that. Yeah. That's going to be a six-sharp. Like many households now, we have both have Zoom meetings tonight. I may see you later on. I hear you. Time to upgrade your broadband, George. Yeah. We're trying. We have actually about two. Okay. So I guess, Sarah, if you or anyone else hears anything, I'd be curious to know what's going on. That seems a little strange to me, but who knows? Well, we'll see. We'll see. Yep. And Darinda and I had already scrapped the town's personnel policy, and since you guys, we didn't send it out to you, it was like, okay, so I don't know what to do now. So that brings us almost to the highway report and the treasurer's report and the executive session, and we have like an hour to kill. Don't worry about it, the time usually goes. Let's just think about this. And I don't know what the personnel thing is. It's something you could read to us, or is it something we really need to read? It is important. Well, it's a clarification. If Darinda's here, I think she's here somewhere. But it was a clarification on vacation time, I think. Well, there's several different things. I think it's a good time to clarify dates. One thing that came up at the end of June was the date that was being used to, for the carryover of vacation and time. And so there's nothing in the personnel policy that states whether or not the carryover is as of the end of the year, starting the first of the year, or if it goes with the budget year, it just says an employee can carry over X number of hours. So, and there was a few other things that I haven't had a chance to put together, but I've noticed that should just be in the record and clarified, so there's no questions about it. So, but rather than do one now and then one later, I think it would be better just to do them all together. Well, in that case, in that case, you've got half an hour to fill, so you better start with the funny stories. Well, what about the highway report? I'm not great. I mean, I'll have to think through it. Jesus, bro. Put the pressure right on Steve. Is that what you're saying? Well, there's a funny story. No, I mean, we can talk about that. We can finish up with the treasurer report if you want. I sent you the most recent financials. I had a couple of questions on it, and I've already talked to Steve about one of them, and we're going to get together and discuss that. So, but I didn't know if you had any questions or anything. Well, I don't have them in front of me, because I can't be on the Zoom meeting and be looking at the financials on my computer at the same time, because for some reason, I've scrambled up my screen. So my two screens now always show the same thing, which is a little weird. But anyway, so I can't look at it. But I just had a quick question. The Waterbury Senior Center, it looks like you give that in two installments. Is that right? Was it 10,000 that you approved? Yeah, we're breaking it out. They actually sent us a monthly billing, and we said rather than do it monthly that we were going to break it like in half. The one thing we did go forward with, and we paid, I think, most of the small appropriations, like anything that was 250 or less. So those are out of the way. One of the big things we haven't heard anything on is the first payment to the school. And we're still waiting. That's going to be a big number. And we haven't heard anything on that yet. But fortunately, the next round of taxes is coming up. So I still think we'll be okay. Don't we typically get that in November? I think we've had it before now, to be honest with you, but... I thought we got it pretty soon after school started. Yeah, because, but anyways, I don't think they've done anything with it. I think they're still trying to figure out their mess. Okay, well, I don't mind keeping the money in our bank account. I quickly scanned through your report, and I got to the end, and I thought, oh man, where'd all the money come from? I quickly figured it out. We haven't paid the school. We haven't paid the school. Can I ask about how come we budgeted for 6,000 for gravel? And we paid, we spent 26. I mean, I know we need the gravel, but I'm kind of surprised that it was, we didn't think that we needed it as much as we did. So you're asking me or Steve? Well, I'm going to the highways. She's probably asking me. I'll wait until you report. We ended up... That's Steve. Everybody ready? Yes. So we ended up having to purchase more gravel than what we had talked about, because we've changed things around. We'll still be, I think we're still going to be fine within our budget, but I will have to adjust that for another year. How did we change around that caused the... $20,000 over it? Let me just jump in with Steve. A lot of that is just the way that we are coding things versus the way that we budgeted things. A main portion of that gravel that Steve and I had anticipated doing was under construction and paving. That's what I was talking about. Yeah, it's the major line item. And again, as we've worked over the last 10 years about having better clarity and making sure things are itemized in the correct number, there was always this discrepancy with are we... Steve and I originally were budgeting the $6,000 for summer maintenance. And when him and I budget that, the main focus was that gravel was to be used for not resurfacing projects, but small projects as touching up, things that had a low spot and then places like McCuller Road where the substantial amount of this gravel has gone, that was under our construction budget. So again, it's not an overage of... Or what I would say is not an overage of a particular line item. It's just where we kind of anticipated pulling that money from and then as opposed to the money or where the money actually came out of. So it's just... I just want to clarify that. There wasn't a... We didn't overspend. It's just a difference of where it ended up coming out of. So wouldn't there be a deficit? Wouldn't there be a smaller amount than in another account? I mean, if that's... Should be... Part of that thing is... I had a little conversation before speeding and when we get together, we're going to be changing some of those numbers around. So that will change, but I do think that we did go over on our gravel budget in that sense, but... Got to have it. Well, it's just... You know, as we change things around and we change the way we code things, there's going to be a period of time where things look a little screwy. But the whole purpose of having more accounts and more detail is so everything just doesn't get lumped under winter maintenance or summer maintenance. We don't really see what it is. Right. Yeah. Well, there are some problems with the line... I'll fix that. See what we... I think you added an additional comment, Steve. Yeah, there are some problems with our line items, but as I said, Derrinda and I are going to get together, go through the bills and make sure that these things are where they should be. So those numbers are going to change. Yeah. Great. Everything else that was over budget was something where it was like $100 and it was actual spent $125. So we're doing pretty well. You know, to be totally honest, I don't pay a lot of attention to the financials in the first quarter because it just always seems like there's stuff going on and flipping around. When we get to five or six months, I start to pay serious attention, but I do look at the overall amount. I mean, this is one of the areas though where the accrual thing can kind of screw us up a little bit, but anyway, it's fine. It's good. You have anything else, Madam Treasurer? No, but to your point, we're in the process of doing the audit from last year. And some of the questions that are coming out of it is why we are so out of whack with our budget. And she's looking for explanations as to why that is happening. Certainly. And again, she picked on the highway department. And I can account for like, I mean, certainly the flood had a lot to do with it, which put us way over. And I think just the way we're changing our line items, that that has something to do with it as well. But we had some maintenance items that we're way over to. That was the other one, is the repairs and maintenance. Why was it so high? Maybe she'd like to fix the trucks. You talking about me? Well, we'd love to have you fix them too, Mary. I'm just saying, I, you know, I mean, I understand that's a typical auditor question, but what do they expect us to do when we have a major breakdown? We got to pay for the major breakdown. Yeah. Yeah. And I think it's key just to note that we're making sure that all of that is marked accurately, especially with the equipment repairs. That's where those all came from. You know, we've got the bills to show those. And it is what it is, like Peter said, but at least it is shown accurately within our expenditures, which I think is equally as important, you know, but. Maybe more important. Yeah, right. As we all know, and I'm filling time a little bit here, but anyway, when we have to do our budget, basically eight or nine months before the year even starts, and 20 months before the year ends, it's impossible to project some of this stuff. And some of it, like the repairs and breakdowns, what do you do? You look at the last few years and you'd say that's what the average is and we hope we don't go over. Well, good luck with that, as we've seen over and over again. But I'm not concerned. I'm happy to talk to her to render if she gives you a hard time. Oh, no, she's not. It'll come out in the findings or whatever when she's done going through it. And I think she's trying to get a better understanding of what happened, you know, what's happening this year. And we've had a few hurdles as far as Patty leaving and Amy taking over. And so there's been some, you know, issues there as far as, you know, the smooth transition. Yeah. So when you say shoot, you're talking about Bonnie Batchelder? Yes. Yeah. Just wanted to be clear. Peter, if we do have time after the highway report and it's before six o'clock, can I just, and it's not anything that needs to be voted on, but if I could just ask a question about or to have a little discussion about the capital planning process? Sure. Okay. Yeah, you've done- Why don't we finish up with the highway? You're all set, Terinda. Steve, what else have you got for us? All right. So what I've got is Paul, you're on. Just like that. Just like that, buddy. No, so I did ask, guys, I did ask Steve if I could at least give a portion of tonight's highway report only because I kind of wanted to leave, make sure it was left with the most clarity I could from my departure here. But so some things I want to go over. You know, the crew has been left in at least the best possible and informed place that I could have left them. They've got a more than manageable project list to try and complete before winter. Some projects that we had already started, or projects that we had committed to, as well as getting the equipment ready for snow season. And Steve has been checking up daily with them to make sure that that's still on track. And things seem to be going good at this point. Obviously, you know, we have all of our winter sand all ready to go. Chains have been ordered. We've got plenty of tires in the house. You know, so we're in good shape. We've even got all the stone we need for mud season that and in most the majority of it was from last season because when COVID hit, we just didn't have the mud season that we typically would without the traffic. So that's that's going to be a bit of a savings too. So Steve's been taking care of just kind of the communications with the guys. The other thing I didn't want to cover is that I will Steve had asked me before I left to help him out with the budget for this coming season. And him and I will be working on that, you know, in the next few weeks here a month to make sure or whatever the time limit is to make sure that we get that in. And I told him I'd be happy to help out with that. And the last thing I just want to go over is I know last time we had discussed in shop tool inventory. I did take on my last day. I did kind of go around and know like the bigger ticket items that we had talked about tools. You know, the air compressor chain saws at a total loss value. And I'm thinking we're probably in the 55 to $63,000 range as opposed to I think the 40 or 42 that that was originally thrown out there. So I don't think there's a there's there's a I mean I would call it at least a 10 to $15,000 difference in what they had projected. So what I think is actually in there after going through and putting up a today's dollar value on things. That's replacement value. Correct. That's replacement value at today's cost. Correct. Yeah. But no other than that. No, I've got nothing else unless Steve wants to kind of fill fill in the cracks there. Well, we don't have a lot to do the guys that have been working on. We're doing a couple of projects for WMA state of Vermont. WMA their parking lots. One is on Upper Barnett Hill Road. The state is paying for the gravel and the trucking. We were just pushing it off and it takes it back. Oh, I don't know. A quarter of a mile probably, I think roughly. And to a to a parking lot that they have that is complete. And we will be going up to the parking lot or WMA parking lot on Notch Road. I don't know if we're going to get to it this week. I think so, but that isn't going to take very long. We got to get a little bit ready. And again, the state is paying for the gravel and the trucking. We're just getting it prepped for that. And then we'll push the gravel off. And that takes care of us for a little while anyway, until we get to the point where we do the joint parking lot further up the Notch Road back in two years or so, whatever that timeframe is. Hey, Steve, can I ask you a clarification? Steve, can I ask a clarification? Go ahead. Okay. The first improvement that the state is paying for for the gravel and trucking, you said, did you say that was Upper Barnett Road? Right. Upper Barnett Hill. What are they doing? They're putting a parking lot up there. They already have a place. They've got a place with a sign up there that is past the end of the road where we plow. It's on the class four section. And they're improving the road. So it's better improved because it was getting pretty bad. So they wanted to improve the road. They're paying for it in conjunction with us. So we have some time involved with pushing the gravel off. Does that answer your question? Well, so what I'm going to say is that the state is paying for gravel and trucking to improve Upper Barnett Hill Road, a class four section that the state owns? Oh, the state doesn't own it. The state doesn't own the class four road, we do. So why is the state paying for the gravel and the trucking? Because they want to be able to get vehicles down to where their parking lot is, which is about a quarter of a mile away from the best part of the, because there's also, what is there, one house on there? Paul, it's on the class four section now. Correct. All right. So they take care of that. But going past there, you couldn't get it down through the car or anything. And the state has that parking lot and they wanted to improve it. This is one of the things that we've been talking with them about. So it's done. Okay, I didn't know. And it's improving our road. I didn't know the state had a parking lot on Upper Barnett Hill Road. They do. I didn't know. Well, now you can go visit. Yep. Safely. See? Yes. Rick Dwyer, I don't, I may be wrong, but I don't think it's quite clear to Sarah that there's a wildlife management area down there from the property. That's where they're going. Okay. Thank you. Steve had said, you had said that, Steve, that that's where we're going. I just said WMA, but yeah. But thanks, Rick. Thank you. Can I make a comment to the road? So this is just on behalf of my neighborhood where we have a neighborhood Facebook page. And this past week there was a huge amount of complaints about the grading that was done the day before the big rain. And is there any way it just was so, so greasy and really hard to get through, like quite dangerous actually. Passed over and wrote in down. Is there, I know we've talked about this and I just wonder, you know, with the forecasts, when we know there's rain in the forecast, why do we grade? I guess it's the best. I mean, really, it's- You don't always hit it exactly like that. I mean, you know, it's not like- Right. Tell us, tell us what you're real clear. I mean, it just- However, let me, let me go into that just, just for a second. I believe that you are on that schedule. He's going to start grading again tomorrow, whether it looks like we're going to be better. And he knows that we have to regrade a couple of roads. And I believe that was one of them that we talked about today. Okay. Thanks. I just told everyone I would mention it. Yeah. We just want everybody to think you've graded twice because you're on the select board. So I have a, I have a comment on that, on that subject also. So this is what I call the curse of the slate. Yeah. Or I don't know how many years I explained that to them. We use that wet slate to resurface our roads. And on, on East Hill, we suffer from the same problem. And we seem to have the same bad luck with timing on- Yeah. And it is, it is very slippery and very dangerous. Right. That happens. And I am very much looking forward to getting, you know, places like, like your road, Liz and, and East Hill road, at least the hilly part of East Hill road, resurfaced with crushed stone again. Because then that really will not be so much of a problem at all. It's the, it's. I know I explained it to them, but it was the old coverage of the road and that was the, that's going to be an expensive endeavor. So it's going to be that way, regardless. It's just, I think that, you know, honestly, it's, it's better off to not grade it all. If there's any inkling of rain, because it truly is so scary and dangerous. Yeah. You, you might be coming to us if we did that. You might be coming to us two weeks later saying, boy, this road is really rough and you haven't graded it in three weeks or four weeks or five weeks. I know we're never satisfied, Steve. We, Middlesex, are never satisfied. Again, for having a road blog. Right. Well, you know, that I really, I can't tell you how many people I've explained this to, and once you explain it to them, they understand, but, you know, that Christ slate, when it, when it's just been graded and then it gets wet, it's like, it's like grease lightening. And yeah, we all need to know to slow down when that happens, just like the road, when the road's covered with ice. Yeah, I was going up by the parrot's house at steep section of center road and I said, God, is the slate still causing these kinds of problems? It's been a long time since we put any down. But I guess the answer is yes. Well, it is because we've gotten behind that. So, you know, if you look at our, I went back this fall and looked at our five year road plans. And when we said we were going to resurface these roads and, you know, a lot of them have been off at least once, if not twice, because of storms and other issues where we couldn't get to them. So, you know, we need to get to them when we can. That's how a capital budget will help. Just, just find the money list. The budget's fine. Money. Show me the money. I know. Anyway, it is a challenge and I don't mean to make light of it, because it really is dangerous. And what I worry about, you know, and I'm speaking for East Hill, but I'm sure it's the same over by you, is most of my neighbors now are used to it and everybody really slows down. But boy, when you have somebody coming in in the summertime from out of town, they have no clue. And I pulled a few of them out of the ditch. So anyway, you're all set, Steve. I am all set. Paul, do you have anything else? I'm all set. Thank you. You're up. We've got 14 minutes. Well, Peter, you know, we do have that executive session. Right. That's a 14 minutes. I want to take a minute to thank Paul for his years of service as our road foreman. And we're really sorry to lose you. You've done a great job. And in fact, you're staying in town because. Oh, absolutely. But we're really sorry that you decided you had to go somewhere else because of the hours. Perhaps after Steve retires from the select board, you would like to join the select board as the road commission. Or perhaps after your children get in high school, you could come back. I was going to say time is of the is a precious thing right now. Yeah. I see you already are a trader with your new shirt on too. I had the whole weekend off off Liz. Yeah, it was a big long break in between jobs. Yeah, the whole weekend. You can't have everything. That's right. No, but thank you. You did pay for that vacation. You didn't get to take. That's right. Anyway, Paul, thank you again. Absolutely. Thanks, Mary. Thanks, Liz. We all agree, Paul. And we're going to we're going to dream up some kind of recognition for you. Maybe we'll create a few signs to put in your driveway. Who knows what we might. Hopefully they will. They will be in a pleasant nature. Yeah. Yeah, I'd be careful. Yeah. I'd be scared of your wife. She's allowed to see me out there with a shotgun. I would too. I would too. Okay. Well, we are very glad that you're you're staying in town and be a resident. Hopefully stay involved in some of this. Absolutely. Absolutely. So we appreciate your experience of knowledge. Believe me, we do. So with that, Liz. Yeah, I don't want to spend a lot of time talking about the actual survey or anything like that because you guys I think got copies of it. But but what I wanted to sort of give you a heads up on is that, you know, we applied for the grant to do capital planning, which we will hear in January, I believe, if we were approved for the grant. And, you know, they were fairly encouraging with us the whole time that we were asking them questions and writing the grants. So it turned out to be a very well written grant. And the only reason that I could see us not getting it is that there were we got one last year and maybe there's people that haven't had one in a while. So if we get the grant, the grant is written such that there will be a community process involved in it and that it will be sort of managed by the whole thing will be managed by the Central Vermont Regional Planning Commission. So we would hire them to facilitate a community discussion. And we would hire them to work with the people in the town to survey all of the equipment and assets that we have and put a price to them and help us sort of foresee what we're going to need over the next 10 years. So what I wanted to sort of just talk to you guys about is that in the survey, we said, are you interested in being on a capital planning committee, sort of a subcommittee? So this would be like a group of people that met once a month to with the Regional Planning Commission to go through the process of this. And we had about a dozen people who were interested with people I didn't know, people with some interesting skill sets. And so I wanted to reach out to them before January to basically acknowledge and say, thank you for your interest in this. This is what's going to happen if we get the grant. This is the process that we're going to take in this. And so I kind of wanted to make sure that was okay with everyone that I reach out to people to kind of give them a heads up of what this might look like if we get the grant. The other thing is what if we don't get the grant? Do we still want to have a committee of people that sort of help us with this process? Because I feel like we still want to do sort of a semblance of what, you know, CVC, I mean, Southern part Regional Planning Commission would have done with us. There's lots of models out there of towns that have capital budgets that are fairly grandiose and fairly basic. And so I think ours is going to be somewhere sort of in between. I think we asked for just under $10,000. And some of that is because of the extra work they'll be doing, you know, holding it. I think there's like two community. There's a community input in the beginning and then a community input at the end. So anyway, I just wanted to run that by you guys to see if you thought it was okay for me to reach out to these people that showed interest to kind of just give them a heads up of where we're going so that it's not a surprise suddenly if we do get the grant and we have to scramble to pull people together. No, I think you should definitely reach out to them. I think the other thing we have to think about is as I think it's really important for somebody from the select board, don't everybody raise your hands at once to serve on this committee. There is, and the other thing that I wanted to say too and I would like to say this just in the group and it's not something we have to talk about right this minute, but when we're looking at the budget for next year I want us to include that like Derinda's going to have more hours. That's just the fact of this is that if we're working on a capital budget, Derinda's going to have to be involved and I want to make sure she's compensated for it because this grant does not allow for compensation. The same goes for Sarah that whether it's in the form of a stipend or something that we can give her out of our budget to compensate for extra hours that she may be working above and beyond what she's paid for because there is going to be a process of more detailed work than normal, I guess. Well, wait a minute, what if we don't want to work for extra hours? Well, then we probably can't do a capital budget, Sarah. I mean it involves people answering certain questions and being involved in a certain way in terms of like I can't tell what we have for trucks. I don't know that's going to be someone working with Pulse Replacement, the CVCRP working with them. It's going to entail, I mean if you guys don't want to do it we should have known that before we wrote the grant that no one actually wanted to have to help out because that's just the reality of these kinds of processes that there are other people in the town that have to contribute time to it. And I'm not saying it's necessarily out of your work day. It's not like you're necessarily going to, you're not going to be coming to nighttime meetings but someone's going to be coming into your, maybe coming into the office or calling you and asking you for assistance on this. Well, we're going to have, the fire department's going to have to be involved in this. Right. The road folks are, I mean, whatever the magic number is 80 or 90 percent of our budget is the road. So, it's really going to be driven by the roads but it's also going to be maintained. You know, it's all aspects of what the town spends money on but the big ticket items are going to be road related for most of them are. Right. And we as a group will decide how much is what we're talking about too. Like are we talking about anything over $5,000 which is considered a capital expense? Or, you know, we can come up with that number of what we think is a capital expense. There is, has something she says is statute that we have to vote at annual meetings on anything over, Sarah was a 5,000 or 2,500. It's, you like the, you have to vote at annual meetings if you're going to go into an, it's an indebted this statute for items not that are not like road related. So fire trucks and, you know, any other things and if you're going to indebt, I think if you go into debt for more than seven years you have to bring those before the voters and they have to be, and I think it has to be a paper ballot vote. Okay. I was talking about that was the situation we ran into with the fire truck. And we did wrong. We did wrong. We had to redo it. Yes. That's right. I think Liz that we should definitely reach out to the people and tell them that, that you hope that they'll stay involved and we'll know in January whether we get the grant. And I think the budget issues we can discuss when the budget comes up. And number three, I think everything else can wait until we find out whether we get the grant or not. I don't think we have to resolve that issue right now. But in just so you guys know, it can be a 12 to 18 month process. This whole thing is not a fast thing. It's like, so there's a commitment on the part of the committee to sort of stay involved in the process. So I also think that we would probably want to not necessarily just allow everyone who wants to be on the committee. I think that we can choose who's on the committee too. Like try to make sure that we get a good cross sector of people in the community. Yep. Well, use your discretion. You're talking about capital expenditures and you're also talking about buildings, correct? Yes. Yeah, buildings. I mean, you can also, sorry, I keep saying that. You can also include in your plan sort of like maintenance schedules for things like replacements, like when you're going to pump this through the septic system, that kind of thing. Like those things can be built into, I mean, those are sort of the bigger, more grandiose ones. Like how often are you going to flush out the pipes for X, Y, and Z? How often are you going to do your computer server upgrades? That kind of thing. I mean, there's all kinds of things. I think we need to get past this tonight and we're going to blow our schedule. But I think, A, it's going to depend on whether we get the grant or not. If we get the grant, I think we'll have the ability to do a more detailed process. If, heaven forbid, we don't get the grant, then I think we have to look at this realistically and say, what can we bite off? Like we're really talking about our major buildings and our major highway things and major projects. I mean, we're not going to talk about buying paper for the photocopier or we've just got to see what happens and then decide what realistically we can do. Because if we try and micromanage, absolutely everything, we're just going to drive ourselves crazy. And I'm not sure it's really useful. Not to mention Sarah and everybody else. Sarah and Dorinda will be much happier. You know, I think, but it's so, for instance, are we going to talk about things like, and I think, are we going to project our employee expenses for five years? I would suggest we should. That's a major item. What about health insurance for those of you? You know, are we going to include those things? Are we going to exclude them? Those are the kinds of things we have to do. Well, that's not a capital expenditure. I don't think those are in a capital expense. I think it really is more about buildings. It's about land, trails, buildings, equipment. Okay, all right. I hear you. I hear you. But anyway, the other reason that we might not get it is because I don't think it's a scoring. So there's a rubric of how many points you get. And I don't think we're going to score very high on our COVID need because this grant has some pieces in it that you get more points if you've been affected by COVID. We tried to make a case for it, but it was kind of hard. Hockey. What? So, I was saying the same thing. Hockey. We need to go into executive session. Okay. Now, if we need to go into our executive session, is somebody willing to make that motion, please? I'm moved. Second. All in favor? Aye. Aye. So we're in executive session. So hold on. We're going to get this show here. Wait, we've got to get some more. You've got to also allow certain people to be in executive session. Do you want the treasure, the town, the select port assistant, and the road, the former road foreman? Yes. Yes. All right. Well, I have to get rid of Orca. Goodbye, Orca. So I'm removing Orca. And Vic. Vic's gone. Okay. I wasn't.