 Good evening everybody, or in some places afternoon, or in some places morning. My name is Saimukh Davongsai, and I just want to welcome you to Mutang Clan Ain't Nothing to with, you know, Asian Americans women playwrights on craft, and other things that we can't talk about publicly but we're going to do it here because we can. The Mutang Clan, I want to tell you a little bit about who we are. The Mutang Clan is a playwrights incubator program here at Theater Moo, and Theater Moo is a Minnesota based Asian American theater company, and this is our inaugural cohort. We started the Mutang Clan because we wanted to cultivate Asian American playwrights, we wanted to have a safer space to be together, to talk, right, to have, to have, was it, I'm sorry, to talk about things that could be complicated in our, in our world in theater world and also like in our Asian American communities right. What are the issues and topics that we care about, you know what, what, what impacts us. And so, as playwrights we need safer spaces for us to talk about those things right because it impacts our craft, our stories, all of that. And so, a safer space, but then also time for us to workshop our pages to give each other feedback, and to be in community, and then also to share resources. So that is the Mutang Clan, and this is our first cohort, it's very exciting. I want to first just briefly let y'all know who we are. So we have Susan here, Susan, can you wave hello, give a peace sign, gang, gang sign, whatever. We have Marlena, Alex, Catherine, Keiko. And I'm Samukta, and I am the Mellon Foundation playwright and residents at Theater Moo. So before we get started, like really, really get started, I want to thank our funder, the Science Museum of Minnesota, for making this year's inaugural program possible through the mini grant, the race exhibit mini grant. I also want to thank our partners, the Mellon Foundation, and then also howl around Theater Commons. And then a special shout out to our streaming producer, Josh, Dairud, who is, you can't see him, but he's like, what is it? Mr. Oz, Dr. Oz, who's the man behind the curtain in Wizard of Oz? The Wizard of Oz. Yeah, it's not Dr. Oz, for sure. Anyway, that's, that's who Josh is, all right. And so now let's have you meet, let's have you meet the Mutang Clan. Let's have each of you just take a minute to introduce yourselves. We'll start with Susan. Hi everybody, I'm Susan, my pronouns are she, her, hers, and I'm originally from Davis, California. And I am primarily interested in stories that look at the intersection of power and identity. And I'm based in New York. I'll pass it to whoever's next. Hey, I'm Marlena Gonzalez, I'm based in Minneapolis. And I'm very, very happy and honored to be part of this amazing group. We've had pretty compelling conversations so far. I'm a writer, I'm a curator, I'm a free radical. My main fields are media and theater, both loves equally. I'm always very interested in history always very interested in real people, real words, but also fantasy and illusion. And so where it lies that gap between reality and fantasies where I love to write. Pass it on to Alex. Hi, I'm Alex Lynn, my pronouns are she, her, hers. I'm from New Jersey. I'm still in New Jersey. That's basically all you need to know about me. I will never leave. You can't make me. You'll have to force me. I am in addition to being a playwright, I also work in the space industry. I really, really love science and I like computers. And I like coding, which I'm just learning how to do. It's really fun. It's an adventure. And I like exploring the intersection between the arts and sciences at most of my work. And I'll pass it on to Catherine. Hey everybody I'm Catherine Haddad I am also based in Minneapolis with Marlena and looks and have been a playwright community organizer teacher and artistic community member here for the past 2025 years. And my passion lies in working with community telling stories of community, and just getting our voices out there and doing whatever I can, in whichever ways to tell stories to to get community involved and to represent as best as I can, who I am. And while working with the fabulous people that I find along the way. So, thanks for having me involved in this. Hi, I'm going last airplane is flying by right now. My name is Kiko green I use she her hers pronouns. I am currently based in San Diego, originally from Georgia. And I have recently come to just accept the fact that I don't have a like, this is what I write thing my I like to tackle all kinds of themes and ideas and all kinds of structures. I think that one personal priority that I'm putting forward in my, my work these days is, is actually more about process and how to, how to create a positive process for all, rather than kind of narrowing down what kind of work that I do. So, that might tell you a little bit about me. Thank you. Thank you, friends. So, one of the things that we talked about right away when we got together right was talking about us as powerful people powerful writers. And so my first question to y'all is, what empowers you as an Asian American woman playwright, and y'all can take that however you want you can define empower however you want you can define Asian American woman or play right. Like, any of those words, any way you want. So this will be interesting. So what empowers you. I think it's our words is like the words the way we write it the way you spell it, the way we pronounce it. The words, the way we speak our own languages is the most powerful part of being a playwright because when you hear your, the words that you live with and you grew up with resonate and come out of somebody's self on stage. It's very reaffirming and I think it's very validating. So the power of a writer is really there, like, not just on paper once spoken. It's out in the universe forever. One thing about. I know this question is specifically about being an Asian American empowers you as an Asian American playwright and what's what's interesting is whenever I think about questions like that I think about, you know, no matter what your identity is, we try to write specifically about how to your, your own experience your own identity, a lot, you know, a lot of the time. And what I find so empowering about it is when not only people from similar experiences are like, that's me I feel seen for the first time and we can like appreciate that together. I there's also that moment where people who are like, that is not at all my lived experience or my identity and yet I am learning a universal truth somehow through your specificity and like I find that to be deeply empowering of like oh embracing embracing like the uniqueness of yourself is actually what is actually what brings even more people to be able to connect with your work, which is so cool. What empowers me and I think it comes from the fact that maybe at heart I'm, I'm really a teacher but is when after a show or during the process of development. When I see the spark in somebody else from what I've created that someone who may have never thought of creating something themselves or may have never seen themselves who get excited and interested and come up and say I want to do that I want to get involved. That's me, that's my community. You know how I wasn't, you know I came to this because to this event or whatever because a friend of mine brought me here and I didn't know what was going to happen I never really knew of this kind of thing before theater and I am just really interested in what's, you know how can I be a part of this and to me, that is the really empowering part of being a playwright a community organizer is to see that spark from somebody else and to see that hey I'm not just alone and what I just did wasn't just something in my own head or wasn't just something that I thought I don't know if it's going to be worth anything, but it actually meant something to somebody else and that continues to empower me and always has empowered me as a playwright. I've noticed that so many of us wear more than our playwright hat, you know, we're also community liaisons, we do outreach coordinating we do cultural consultation for the theaters that produce us or work with us right so we wear all these multiple hats sometimes it's hard because you can't just come into the room and just be the artist, but I think that's what's beautiful about it, like this, the social practice as part of our, to me that's what makes you feel empowered to. Yeah, I want to really wanted to use that first question reminded me and connects to what you just said books because I'm also I consider myself a community engagement, you're not at all trying to save the world, but more trying to connect the worlds where they're disconnected. And one story I want to share is like when we did our, my play is literally several years ago, which was written in Spanish Tagalog and English. One of the comments was from a middle schooler who was Filipino American, who was bilingual. And she said, after seeing the she said in in school, I've always been afraid to speak my language like if my mom picks me up. I don't want her to speak to God in front of everybody else. I don't want them to hear my accent. And she said but after seeing the play. She feels like not only she okay speaking the way she does, but she wants to actually let other people know how she sounds. And she wants her mother's voice to be heard by her classmates and that was the most moving impactful comment I've ever received and like, okay, I did something right, you know, even if it's just one life that you touch that's that's a big, that's a big thing. Yeah, especially for so many of us who, like me, you know I'm loud American born in a refugee camp came to the US when I was four grew up not seeing loud stories on the American stage. And so it feels it feels like you're doing something so I don't know what the word is but it's like beyond. It's like contributing but more it's more than that it's like. I don't know, but I know I know what you, you mean Marlena when you say that to call log, you know, there's like power in that for the kid to feel like this is part of me, and y'all are going to hear me say it and hear my mom say it so. Yeah, I think that just in terms of broader representation, I feel like one of my motivations to write is also just to see myself in culture in ways that I had not seen myself before. And I think in terms of representation, it can be actually kind of a burden to if there isn't a lot of the type of the stories that you identify with out there, and it can be kind of a challenge of figuring out like, Oh, if I write this type of story like what does that say about XYZ, whereas I think with other types of creators who don't belong to minority. That's not like an issue so that's something that I often contend with my own processes, like what am what am I trying to say and how do I say it. Do others feel that way about having to represent for their community communities. Yeah, I feel like now that there's so many more story I don't know like now everyone's so thirsty for our stories are a lot more than they used to be I feel like now there isn't one. You know, I mean, unless I guess you're talking about, you know, actually, I'm going to totally I'm going to totally reverse what I was going to say which is actually yes if you're talking about anything historical or based on like one incident. And then there does feel suddenly a responsibility and and we've talked a little bit about about this in our group itself of like, how, what kind of responsibility do you have to feel to be beholden to facts, and to deliver a truth. And is it if an emotional truth leads you a different way, which do you follow which is I think is a really interesting question that we have not gotten to the bottom of I don't think but I think the other part of that to is like, you know when a white playwright writes a play like it's just a play. American African American or Latin X or, you know, playwright writes a play, it's an Asian American or Latin X or, you know, it's there's that brand, right. So we are kind of like, not the category we're not the main narrative. But I think what we should, I feel like whatever an Asian American playwright writes is a play. It's not just an Asian American play, it's a play. And if you, whether you were writing about immigration or the Chinese Exclusion Act, or space. You're still an Asian American playwright, and that's still an Asian American play, because it's coming from an Asian American soul and an Asian American voice. And I think whatever you write there's the sensibility of who you are, and what tugs at you, what, what ingredients from your past come into play when you write the dialogues or create a specific scene. Those go into spill out into the pages and they get represented under the spotlights in the eyes of many. And that's significant. I mean that's, I think that's a struggle for, for by pop playwrights is like, you know, do you always have to write about something that's about your identity. No, because anything you write is already about your identity. I must, like, there's, there's a must within me, like I must write, allow anything, because there just aren't allowed anything out there. And so when I do that it's like a it's like a call to the other loud people like hey hey this is about us like come through, this is about us. So I feel like I must do that. It never even occurred to me to not write loud, non loud stories. I tried and it was just like I need that little, that little spice of flour in it, you know, is missing an ingredient which is oh it's the loud ingredient the main ingredients. Alex you've been, you've been quiet man. What's going on. I'm just trying not to talk over anybody. So, I guess I do feel some sort of responsibility when I'm writing about I don't know characters that pertain to my specific identity I guess but at the same time I kind of am like, I'm allowed to like I'm allowed to write people who are incredibly misbehaved that in fact cruel and enjoy unusual punishment inflicting unusual punishment upon their enemies, because I'm a person and I'm writing people I don't I don't need to write. I think I think I'm writing in this moment where I guess similarly to what Keiko is saying people do seem to be hungrier for our voices I don't feel as much pressure as I used to to create like a good representation of my community I can write people who are bad and mean and cruel, because that's how people are sometimes. Yeah. Yeah. Perfect because. Okay, we've talked about this before in our group when we have our meetings. But I want us to also share it with the public. What are some of the juicy things that you want to write about but can't, but probably will anyways, because these things are either to taboo within the community the culture. The teachers might get mad at you the elders might this on you, or you might get canceled like what it what are some of these juicy things that you want to get into but you will. I really want to write about Chinese Republicans, I have been thinking about this for my entire life. It is such a fascinating demographic of people to me. I think about Elaine Chao more than I probably should. And I just really want to explore what is the mindset behind those core beliefs when when you're specifically Chinese Republican woman. What ideology are you buying into and why are you doing it and how far does it actually get you. I think that's something I really, really, really want to explore if I just wasn't lazy, and I actually wrote. I'm sorry, I just say I feel that this question really folds into the what you had just brought up a little bit before and looks about feeling a burden of representation in the community kind of because there are so few stories about us I'm Lebanese American, by the way, and I don't see a hunger for my stories. I'm like what people are saying I do not see that people are hungry for our stories. And then, and there's such a burden because there are so few of our stories that then, then you feel like the old question of, am I perpetuating stereotypes because I am the only one of the very few people who is writing about this topic like for instance terrorists, or, you know, people who are abusive to their like say, you know, men who are abusive to women or all of these are stereotypes that that we're living with in the media and when people say you know, you know, who mentioned us and so those realities because they are realities come up. It becomes something that I think about twice about writing about just because I don't want to perpetuate those stories but yet again, of course those are realities and those are actually interesting stories. And so that becomes very difficult when you are one of a very, very few people who has a voice out there and somebody's going to come and maybe not in California or New York but in Minnesota definitely people are going to come to see the play and that's happened to me numerous times after saying, Oh, well, I really wanted to learn more about your culture. And so I came to this play to learn more about your culture. And you know, I didn't, you know, now now I'm validated in my mind that, yeah, you all are wife beaters, I guess. And you know, you all are terrorists at heart or all of these, you know, these ignorant comments that that honestly I have heard from, you know, from audience members so so it becomes difficult to to write about things that I would like to write about just because of that burden. Right. I think what you just described emphasizes even more the need for, for those of us who write to write, because there is still a difference between a white writer of writing about a terrorist, and an Arab American writing about a terrorist, the authenticity of our voices makes the characterization your research your perspectives add to the conversation, because all we know about terrorist is mostly from a predominantly white perspective whether it's media or history, or what not. And I think it's also important that we are able to critique our own cultures, because no no culture is perfect. And where drama happens is where, you know, thesis plus antithesis becomes synthesis where there's opposing forces is where you've got the most interesting compelling stories. And, but it's a big responsibility I can understand what you're saying Catholic is like, yeah I think in the back of our minds you go, what are they going to say like what are the Asian American press people going to say what are your daughters and elders going to say, would you be scolded by your own mother. And, you know, yeah, it's a huge responsibility. And not to dominate this conversation but the other thing that bothers me is a lot of people want to see those stories, because they will be looking for that you know and so those might be the type and have been for instance a type of plays that get produced and get awarded, because they do play into those type of stereotypes as well so that's also something that is very frustrating. I'm going to answer like original question is that okay. Yes, I have hate to be like sharp left here, but which is what juicy thing do we want to write about, which I was like thinking about this since you said this and this is kind of on the opposite end but I really want to write about the shittiness of Bill Murray, I'm sorry I'm allowed to cuss I just did. Yes. Okay, great, because Bill Murray is a person that I thought what the like I also loved growing up and represents to me so much of like the funny I don't know like he represented like good male comedians to me for so long and then hearing about how he basically bully Lucy Lou on the set of Charlie's Angels. That was so eyeopening and also was a story that like no one cares about. Still like they still just like hearing about these stories of Bill Murray going to a bot like a party and bartending and, and all these random things that he does and I think that it's really important, you know, not just to call out like not not like I hate the phrase calling out sorry it's not that I just want, you know, it's so obvious when someone does something so egregious that we're like that's bad behavior that's like a racist thing that happened. But there's, I think that there's something really juicy in this person that is still beloved, who didn't do anything illegal or like outwardly obviously cruel, but just picked up a woman apart. And she was working professionally and she was the one Asian American the one person of color, and what that means, and how we just let it go as a society and don't even care about that story like so I there's strangely and me like a fire to write this Lucy Lou revenge tale. Who knows what will happen till boom or Bill Murray in the end but it won't, it'll be ugly. I think I want that I want that story. Let's get a grant let's get a grant to get you and Alex to write those bio pics. Those plates. What about you Susan what's a juicy thing you, you want to write above but you know it's going to be a bit of from others. I am interested in narcissism as a subject as a personality disorder, and I'm really interested in narcissistic parenting. So that is something I really want to explore. Because I think that you see in all cultures actually like the street of narcissism. And in East Asian culture, I, I see it also, and I'm interested in the connection between that if there is even is a connection. And that's sort of a mystery to me too is like where does that come from is it from trauma, is it from the actual culture, like what is in how did it become a part of this. So that's something I'm super super interested in, but I know it's like a touchy subject because I don't want people to be like, Oh, you're like going to talk about like bad Asian parents and there is like a kind of like what Kathy said actually is that there is like a stereotype with that right and so I don't want to play into that stereotype but I also want to like conversation further, but I don't want to play into people's like preconceptions preconceptions of that. So that's something I'm kind of wrestling with right now. I want to go back to Alex writing about Republican Asian Republicans, because there's so many Southeast Asians who are former refugees who are Republican. I'm not just like conservative but like Trump supporters, which I'm confused by. And I just want to understand how that formed how that like affinity to this group forms like what happened, what happened along the way what did you all drink like, but I think there was a, oh sorry, I think there was a New York Times article about looking at white supremacists and their girlfriends and quite a few of them were Asian women. And then I think of also like, what's his face that like media mogul who has a wife who's okay maybe I'm going to get canceled, never mind. Wendy. Oh, Murdoch. Yeah. That Murdoch man. Oh, yeah. There's a couple of really high powered Asian women who are like married to like billionaires that I'm also fascinated by that could also be a part of Alex Lee's biopic. And like, yeah, there's also this, you know, this is like slightly related I think is this like anti blackness within Asian American communities, racism, like within Asian communities towards each other is those are all so they need to get kind of out it and, and, and screamed about a lead up a little bit. I think essentially what you're saying is like challenging ourselves to write about a perspective that we don't agree about. You know, I mean, like, so whether it's a story about a Republican like what's his face, who's Filipino American and George. See, I, that's, I just want to forget him. George, whose wife was like the number two of Trump, Kelly, Kelly. Sorry, I'm having Kelly and Conway. Yes, George Conway is Filipino American Kelly has Filipino American children. But nobody talks about it. And nobody even knows because nobody ever identifies them as Filipino or Filipino American. And why that way. He buy the press, but he never talks about it. So I think where that what we're talking about really is like that interesting part of like, it's not just because the Republicans are assuming that every playwright is not Republican. There are probably Republican playwrights as well right but the interesting point of like, would you dare wait into waters that you don't want to go into. I think that's the crux of it like the big challenge there. Like if you write about Elaine Chao, or if I write about George Conway. You know, what perspective will you take. Are you going to try to enter into their persona and analyze their perspective from their perspective, or will you be the critical eye of that persona. I think those are like two different angles of, you know, of writing about people whom you don't agree with. The anti blackness in the community is a very, very important topic to write about. It's a very difficult one to write about that definitely exists in the slana community and the intersection between the communities on the street. You know corner stores, who owns what who's trying to climb the ladder and on whose back are they are they stepping on. And especially when it comes to anti blackness where does that start, even back in countries of origin, there's anti blackness and color colorism and so that's a very, very rich and topic to talk to write about that I feel is a very delicate one to write about when it comes to, you know, the community but it's an extremely important subject to write about. Totally agree. Yeah, I was, I've been in several community conversations where that was the topic. And what emerged out of that experience is how much that those spaces are needed. Maybe it's through the arts that we speak about these very compelling tension filled topic because I right before we came on I was finishing another scripts for performance we're about to do. And listening to an interview of someone who said, we all need to just talk to each other. We have like this safe space where we can just like drag out take down each other, call each other names, but in a safe space, so that we can actually expel each other stereotypes, because that's really the only way that we can purge ourselves from what has been. I would say a predominantly white imposition to our perspective. So that we're not giving into the divide and conquer. We're being divided. And so maybe as artists and as playwrights. This is where our role becomes how do you unite through your writing, or how do you just like ask the difficult questions of nobody dares to ask, but ask it through your writing. Yeah, and the writing, the writing of it is also so interesting because it's like, you've seen those plays where people are like, I'm writing about, you know, this messed up thing. And then what they do is they just present it on stage and there's no, you know, it's like just putting it on stage. It's as itself without fixed without any kind of point of view, like then you're not really like doing anything you're just kind of like showing, like you're just showing this like bad behavior. And also, there's this thought of like, who am I giving stage time to in my prop in this process, like, whose story am I actually, you know, centering in the telling of the story and so like that's always so interesting to us writing conversations of just like, how can we, how can we really directly present some of these huge themes and ideas, not center the not, you know, really give all that stage time to the people that are doing harm and still kind of, you know, create something that almost feels actionable. It's really inspiring. So going off of that, I think it's also fun to fluidly move between those perspectives. I think there's there's a lot of opportunity in both having like your critical viewpoint of what is actually going on and then kind of like Marlina was saying actually like trying to dive in and why is this person doing this, because unless somebody is like, I don't know clinically a psychopath, there's there's some method to what they're actually doing. And on some level they think that they're doing what is right it might just be right for them and right for very specific group of people but like why do they think that is right. You know, I think that's also what's exciting about telling those types of stories. When y'all put out difficult stories, I'm just going to say difficult stories because, you know, it's some of the topics are hard, they're hard to talk about but when you put it in a play, it makes it more accessible to just everyone to start conversations about it right. Like what do y'all consider when y'all put something a difficult story out into the world. Do you feel like there's responsibility to have. I don't know community engagement components with that any sort of. What do y'all consider to make it feel to give context to give history to give. I feel like there needs to be community engagement around it, not only after the performance but during the process that there needs to be time for everybody in the room to to work through the issues to to talk about what it is that, you know, we're addressing how is it, how is this happening and how is it affecting us and I feel like those conversations are nest absolutely necessary. When it comes to these, these topics, and you can tell sometimes if you see something where that hasn't happened. I think it's a big difference. That is centered a theater that centers that and one that doesn't, one that just wants to put on a show for spectacle, and one that really cares about community engagement. One thing I think that would be really interesting, say for me who still has some connection and relationship with my country of birth which is the Philippines is if I stage a play here and stage the same play on Filipino language, those kinds of conversations are going to be very different, because you're putting an Asian American play in the center of a non Asian American environment where you've got another voice overpowering our voices. So the perspective will be from there and then also the unique opportunity of being seen and heard from an environment that is totally a different culture different language. If you take that same material and bring it to say a Filipino audience. I guess it will be picked up from that point of view be completely different might be the example like for a country like the Philippines it was occupied by Spaniards for 300 years and Americans for more than two decades and then invaded by the Japanese and to have a different perspective where I'm now bringing an American play to a Filipino audience. What do you think, I think there's going to be some controversy with the kind of work that I write because I'm addressing very now very American concerns that may not be the same concern. I'm not representing what is the concern in the, you know, in the Philippines. Does that, is that mushy does that. Not when she know. I feel like community engagement should happen in every single play, depending like whether or not it's a difficult subject or not and I think that's kind of where theater is like sometimes fails is just that we are. You know, it's not a film it's, it is about like bringing people literally into another space and sharing is having a shared empathetic experience with the artists and the humans watching all altogether and like that in itself requires community engagement always, I think, and, and like resources to deal with, you know, giving context and giving. You know, if you, if you want to learn more if you need if you're someone that suffers from that you know like all giving all those resources is always is also really important but but like there's something about the community engagement thing that only pertains to, there's like two things here it's like only engaging in the community when it's a difficult subject that may or may not be traumatic which I find kind of strange, and then also the other kind of community that is kind of suffering is like the one Asian play in the season of a Lord theater so we're going to reach out to the Asian Americans during that one play but when we're not doing that play we just kind of care about them or like the one black play will reach out to the black community then and then like then we don't care. Then we know that just like the main they are never a priority we don't care about them ever only when we're kind of pandering. And it's not. I think like that's the that's what like bothers me so much about community engagement is it just starts to feel. I mean it's really like virtue signaling it's it's the it's just putting on a front to like cover your bases, instead of making it a long term commitment for the entirety of every piece of work that you do. Right. I got really big our people in our community into your mission, not just. Yes, when it's an American history once. Allow new year. Yeah, you know that's also something when big theaters do that or theaters that aren't historically producing by pop work do that. It is extremely suspicious that they're doing it because they got a grant and they usually did usually got a huge grant, and then they're asking community organizations to bring in their community. So they can even make more money off of the it's just it's really distasteful to put it mildly. And it's especially, you know, when you're talking about let's put a slot in for an Asian American play. And then let's communicate as you're saying let's just let's now engage with the community and then you look back and say oh look they got a million dollar grant to do this and the community organizations who are asked to bring their community and who are working for nothing. And no money are and all of their years of sweat and hard work are being asked to share their community with this large organization. And so I am, I find that extremely problematic and so I feel like you know working with community organizations community theaters and community theater might not even be the right word but by pop theaters that really are true to the community and are part of the community and are infused in the community would be the only way that I would really feel comfortable engaging on that level with, you know, with our with our stories. Yeah, I think it's also important to reframe the way we think about community engagement because it doesn't necessarily have to be identity specific, or it can have more than one identity identity applied to it like there's no reason why I wouldn't want to see skeleton I think it's like crazy to think like, well because this specific story is not about this specific community or what I think this community is, they probably wouldn't want to see this play right, they probably wouldn't like it. That's just like mind blowing to me. Like one of my favorite shows is the sopranos. Nobody looks like me in the sopranos doesn't mean it's a bad show. I freaking love that show, I would see a sopranos musical and for somebody to assume just because I'm not Italian that I wouldn't see a sopranos I just don't get it. The end of my rant is please reframe the way that you think about communities do not. Don't don't don't subscribe to these really really harsh lines please. And their intersectionalities I mean consider, you know, it's not just an Asian American play could be also like, you may be telling an LGBTQ store you may be telling a story about a woman you may be telling a story about elders I mean there's all sorts of different layers and and even, you know, like the, the predominant resistance to that if you know it's so one dimensionals like here's Asian American here's this and here's that we forget that this is really just about the human experience. And all these artificialities of branding based on skin based on age or sexual gender orientation has been forced on us because of this whole divide and conquer like we're all divided. And so what you're all saying is like looking at the different layers of it is where community engagement should be centered. You know, not just in the one angle because it's about a Japanese character or about a gay character but that there is something about human nature that needs to be that is being reflected here, and is worth discussing. Well, everybody's talking I thought about Oh, talk about the Miss Saigon syndrome. You know, because all explain that explain that. What do you mean. This worries probably start getting into trouble. I'll try not to, but maybe I can't avoid it. But I mean Miss Saigon is still a controversial play whether it's being produced or not, because even within Asian American audiences there's such a division. I have a lot of friends that I consider progressive who question why Asian Americans are protesting against Miss Saigon, because it's such a beautiful play. It says that love is universal, and it crosses cultures. And so right there like we're theater companies that insisted on producing them and got money to produce them in order to create opportunities for community engagement. And that's opportunism. And there's no there's, there's a difference between transformational and transactional engagement that was transactional. You got money you get press, and then you move on and produce something else. And I just think that the Miss Saigon syndrome is going to be ever present among Asian American writers and artists because this is where we're also trying to explain even to our own people. Why, why we have protested and also trying to understand why people are also feeling like no it's a beautiful play. So I think sadly Marlena that folds back into what we were talking about earlier people are hungry. I mean, the Asian American community, my pops are community hungry to see their stories on stage. And so mistakenly feel like, Oh, this is an Asian story, you know, and I, I'm just grasping for something and so I love this because I see somebody on stage who's Asian. And, yeah. Yeah, because when, when the protests from Miss Saigon first started when it first came out. The question was like, Why are you hiring. Why aren't you hiring Asian Americans when this is a huge opportunity. And then it became, Oh wait, no, if we're Asian American American actors wanted to get into Broadway, do we really want to be a part of this. It was two tiered thing. And then I also bring it up because for me, specifically for the Filipino American community and Filipino international community, the first Miss Saigon was Lea Salonga, who is Filipino, who got, you know, I mean, she's very talented and I really love the things that she has done visibly. But that was the other controversy like what, you know, like, there's that tug here like, want to support you I want to support the Asian Americans and the Asian actors in that play. I'm not protesting against you. I'm protesting against the fact that this story is just a regurgitation of Madame a butterfly where love can be unfulfilled if you're brown or black. You know, so I could run forever but this I have like a whole lecture series and I teach introduction to Pan-Asian theater and that's like, one of my most favorite lectures of all I like was so much material about it I should want to write a book about it someday or a play about a play. There's a there's a huge movement right now sorry Susan you're about to talk you take it. Oh, no, go ahead, go ahead. I was just gonna say really just really quick that there's like Preston Choi and also Kimberly have both written like both really specific pieces that are in direct confrontation with Miss Saigon. So there is something really cool about, I feel like Celine song probably has done that too, you know, just like Asian playwrights who are Asian American playwrights who are kind of just like in direct confrontation with with some of that like is all representation good know it as a conversation. Yeah, and then think about, oh sorry, I was just going to jump in and just say that I think this just speaks to a larger issue with just the gatekeepers of our theaters who are allowing that. There's who are allowing the stories to be told who think it's okay to have like Miss Saigon and their season like I don't think it's always just like about the actors like it's you know it's a systemic issue so I think that until until the theater institution itself. Sort of deals with that, like internal white supremacy whatever racism like, I think we're still gonna get those types of plays like coming out. Or maybe similar to what David Henry one did by writing and butterfly, like, okay, we'll take the same story but let me do it my way. You know that was, I think that that was also very interesting way to take that. Roger Tang Roger Tang commented that Miss Saigon is one of one of three shows that are all icky, right, that can give reliable employment to Asian American actors and talent on Broadway. And that's just sad. That's so sad. Thanks Roger thanks for watching. You talked earlier. Remember you were you were talking about how like Asian American stories are like hot now like people are thirsty for them. Do you think that's because of. Okay, I'm going to bring in film. Do you think that's because of the success of Crazy Rich Asians, or is it. I felt like we were getting hot and sexy like our community stories because of the increased violence on Asian Americans and Asians during COVID last year. What why do you think there's a thirsty for us. Yeah, I mean I will say, I just wanted to say one thing about Kathy said no one's interested in Lebanese stories I think I don't just don't think that's true I think people are totally interested. I just think that right now. You know I'm also a company member at Act Theater in Seattle and I'm part of their curation committee there so I'm also reading plays through them and having these larger conversations and I've seen a theater company that has wildly evolved during the pandemic. I'm really taking to heart some of that we see wide American theater, you know, all of that, all of those ideas and text and really doing an internal check in of like how are we. What are what what how would we been contributing to that and I think a lot of theater companies have been doing that so I think coming out of the pandemic. I probably see even more of that kind of move forward, but I think that as soon as people started I mean there's like that, the Asian American theater group to that I can't remember what they're called Asian American, something coalition that they did just like create those stats of like this is how many writers are who are of color on Broadway. This is the amount of this is how many of them are Asian American this is how many of them are African like it just like as soon as people started seeing the stats and how that compares to the actual population, it just kind of started becoming impossible to ignore I think, and also, yes, you know getting to see more movies and TV shows that are starring and kind of centering those voices I think that I hate that theater sometimes comes. You know we think of ourselves as being so liberal and so kind of like leading the charge when it comes to representation but in a lot of ways we we come after film and TV which is which is really surprising and disappointing. So, you know, I think that I think that 100% that is the case but it's also been, you know, a slow wall that has been broken down by the playwrights that have come before us. And I think the breakthrough of, you know, I mean honestly like Lauren Yee's Cambodian rock band is probably going to do wonders for for Asian American theater all over the country just because that's going to be one of the first shows recently that that like is going to go around to different cities in the country I can't really think of anything else that's done that except for the ones that we've mentioned that are like, you know, potentially problematic musicals, you know, my hot take. It was hot. What's interesting about about I mean people suddenly being thirsty for certain types of stories is that it's like dude why weren't you why why do you only care now after like all of this time and so it makes me at least like a little bit suspicious or not super trusting when their directors are something like oh I want to like center like XYZ voices but it's like it just it makes me feel weird about it all to be honest. Especially if it's if it's bleeding right and they still hold the power. This is the the flavor of the month. Next year it'll be something else and so I just think we need to create our own institutions. I, you know, I mean, it's the reality is clearly that those big ones are out there but I mean if I look at big regional theaters. I don't really see a lot different like even in our in our own town I don't see a lot of different voices coming out the same old because they want to sell tickets right. So they're going to put on the sound of music or whatever I don't know. And, and, and the Christmas Carol and you know that's going to be the main parts of their season and then yeah they'll put maybe one pop in there because now it's hot and trendy but I'll start just to add to what Susan was just saying like there's such a, you know, when, when it is these predominantly white led institutions, you know, suddenly the kinds of stories I mean I've we've been having so many great conversations like just myself with other artists through through the last few months of just experiencing black joy on stage or like Asian American joy celebration of our culture rather than, you know, the, the, the trauma porn that we're that so many of these big theaters sometimes are wanting and so you know it's like how, how, how, when do we get to have those plays that are just about enjoying and celebration of the culture and it doesn't and or the smaller family issues that come up. Instead of just these big, you know, sweeping, this is how I'm a victim, you know, like screams for attention that it sometimes feel like you have to do to get the attention of, of institutions like that. Well yeah I've been taking, I've asked our viewers to pose some questions and we have we have one from for Alex. Alex you got a fan club over here in the Facebook live thread. So this this question is from one of our viewers Sean Leysher. Sean I'm sorry if I mess up your name, but you're now Sean Leysher now. But this question is for Alex and the question is, where does your jerseiness show up the most in your writing. Um, well I'm incredibly offensive as a person. And I don't care very much about people's feelings unless you're actually upset and then I'm like I'm really sorry I didn't mean it I was just teasing you. I would say that it shows up the most in how I do perceive my writing to be very like front footed and aggressive, and there is a certain pace to it like I even talk really really fast and when I'm writing I'm kind of just imagining myself just having split personalities and talking really really fast in different ways. So I would definitely say pacing and aggression. Two great things about me show up a lot in my plays and that I think is directly because in New Jersey if you're not aggressive you will not make your exit you will get into a car accident and die. Yeah, thank you Sean. Give me an excuse to talk about the garden state yeah. Maybe Sean's from New Jersey. Sean is from Philly. I know Sean. Oh you know Sean, is it Leysher? Is that the hot pronounce their name Leysher? Leysher I think Sean Leysher. Sean if I just said your name wrong you should. I don't know don't be my friend anymore I'm so sorry. It's Leysher now. Leysher Leysher that's your name. I'm playing I'm playing I really believe in pronouncing people's names right because my name is long as hell it's Saimukna adon pusei bong say right like that's that's long. It's also because it's loud. But I do I also want to ask before we we bounce. Similar question to what Alex answered is like how does yaws whatever this show up. How does that show up in your place. Your personality your interests your hobbies how does that show up. I'm originally from the south I'm from Georgia and so I do. It's interesting I've lived in Georgia I lived in New York I lived in Seattle and then I lived I live now in Southern California and San Diego and so I think that there's like an interesting. You know I've lived in places that feel so that that like really pat themselves on the back for being so so liberal and then in those people have literally no friends of color like every single dinner party they have is just like a sea of white people right and I see them on Instagram I see you I see you and then meanwhile I go to you know I remember I have people from Georgia who have said and maybe hold some very problematic ideas who have a huge who actually have a lot more BIPOC friends in their group and they're arguing more and so there's just something about people being more complicated or simpler than you expect them to be I really like writing about Asian I also really like writing about Asian American experiences in the south because that's my personal love experience that I that I find. I don't know it just like it's like kind of easy to get to an emotional place because it feels so strange but we're here and we exist and you actually have to. You kind of have to just like really figure out who you are so early on in your life when you're growing up as an Asian American in the south I think. For me, I am from a small town in California, my parents are immigrants from China, and in my twenties I went to China to Shanghai specifically where I lived and worked for about seven years. So I think that shows up and write my writing in terms of just my perspective I think I'm interested in not just an American perspective but more international and just thinking about the nuances of specific things like like culture I'm really interested in that question like what is culture and. How do we confuse other things for culture, and I feel like I took out that thread a lot in my work. That's kind of a tricky question to ask someone like me who's lived in New York lived here the longest, but really still very Filipino originally from Manila, specifically Caloocan city in my heart and I think that part of it is like like for ice cream flavors my favorite is sea salt caramel. I like the clash of sour and sweet, and I think the Filipino nest in me that is more like city girl Filipino. Is that flavor of like the clash of salt and sweet. I think about when the revolution happened against the Marcus administration, many years ago. I heard people tell of that revolution was that people were actually looking for the tanks they were not running away from the tanks, they were looking for the tanks, and they thought it was a party and I think that. I find myself like writing like that like, you know, even in the most tragic moments. I want to throw in something completely absurd and completely funny and completely humorous so that people have to think like, is she joking, or is she making fun of the event, or is she actually trying to highlight the absurdity of the situation and that's what I tend to do in New York like I was in Queens so you know that kind of feistiness of being in Queens kind of like New Jersey like you cross the street you could be living live or die for you. And I think that I that happens to in the characters that I create. What about you Kathy. What shows up. Well, I am the daughter of an immigrant father and white American mother. And so growing up with that reality is something that I explore a lot. The political reality of the day coming to terms with what I knew and learned and experienced at home about my family background, the beauty of it, compared to what I saw in the media, for instance, which was just exactly the opposite. And so that dichotomy brings itself always into my writing, but especially what I mostly write about are the political realities of the day, and how they affect the average person, like me or like in and in the Midwest, I grew up in the Midwest. And so Midwestern immigrants in struggling to survive in a predominantly very homogenous culture, even though the census recently came out here in the Twin Cities and you know it's, it's not as white as it was, but still, you know, feels that way. And so all of those pressures that are put on in the, I think the individuals are what spurs spurs all of my stories. Do you want to add on to your answer of the hobbies interest that gets baked into your place. Well, definitely. I think like working in the space industry has influenced the way that I think about systems and institutions a lot. But, but something that not everyone, if you actually know me, you know this about me, my dad is white and he's from the very tippy tippy top of the Appalachian Mountains, and I think that a lot of the culture from up there does tend to influence my, my very like crass humor. And it's actually another topic that I'm interested in writing about just like the culture of of state New York and it's actually it's a really kind of sad history of what what happened in a lot of areas up there. But that that's my very, my very surface level addition to my previous answer. I love how you say mountains, instead of mountains, mountains, mountains, mountains. For me, it's, you know, I'm, I'm ethnic Lao, I was, I came to the US when I was four was born in a refugee camp in Thailand, my family escaped communist rule. And so my mom was pregnant with me when she crossed the Mekong River. And so I hitched a ride I had it quite easy. So that always shows up in my work, like, you know, Southeast Asian refugee migration movement, like those things show up. And then also I love kung fu's kung fu films, but they got to be like the B rate kung fu films like they can't be the good ones. You know, like magnificent butcher is a good one like it can't be that it got to be like a bad one. I love horror and sci-fi and pop culture. I love Dolly Parton song sometimes that shows up. Right. That's just that was who I wanted to be when I was a kid was Dolly Parton. And how is she so beautiful and so gifted here. And also here. I did, I co-wrote a play called the Hmong Lao Friendship Play. And it's just about me and my friend who's ethnic Hmong, and our communities clash sometimes right the Hmong and ethnic Lao, but also our communities also have had so many connections, shared language, food, history, dress, so many things that we share experience, right. But for some reason our communities don't jive or we don't interact as much as we could here in the US and especially in Minnesota. But in that play, I dress up as Dolly Parton. I cosplay as Dolly Parton. I sing the many coats, the coats of many color. And it's just like a commentary on how like American pop culture influenced me as this kid who's a former refugee, trying to learn how to be American, right, on Dakota land that's been stolen. I grew up in Rondo, which is historically black community. It's still a black community but, but it was back in the day it was this thriving cultural and financial center for black Americans and, you know, they built a freeway that just bulldozed hundreds and thousands of houses. And so people were displaced. And so there's that that shows up in my work to like the, the connections of being displaced. But there's got to be zombies and cannibals in my stuff if there isn't I don't want it. I don't want to write it. If there isn't a murder if someone's not getting killed. I don't want to write it. Oh my gosh, okay sorry, I just wanted to talk about that for a little bit. I've often shared like one of the strongest influences for me is my father. I mean my grandfather. One fellow is a peasant movement leader and was assassinated. This is in the Philippines I never met him. But there's one story that stands out for me that we were told even as a child. And later my mom said maybe you're mushing to incidents together. But for me there's this very strong image of, he was in and out of political prison because of the things that he said fighting for farmers rights and land ownership. And every time he would say that then he, they just arrest him again and throw him right back into prison. And then one day, he was about to be released and my mother says like two of their her siblings ran to the railroad station to meet him because every time they he arrived farmers and towns folks would just, you know, welcome him and they could never even get near him. And he was told, you do not, you may not, you should not say anything. The minute you open your mouth to say something and try to address the farmers, you will be thrown back in prison. And the way it was described to me was the train arrives in the station and you see him, like at the very lap, you know the very first or car. And in my mind he's wearing all white because he was such an amazing dresser. The railroad entered the station. The first thing he did was to address the farmers and to talk about how they need to not give up. And the minute he opened his mouth to soldiers took him and turned him upside down to stop him from speaking. And he did not stop talking. The train started pulling back out in station. And he was upside down and even as he was disappearing to the horizon he was still upside down he was still talking and never stopped. And for me I think as a writer as an artist like that has always been my inspiration is like, I don't care what people say I'm going to say it, because my grandfather set the standard for us. And it's not so much the country or the city that I've lived in that has strongly influences me or is evident in my writing but it's really the memory of my grandfather, all dressed in white, refusing not to be silenced. Thank you for sharing that with us with all of us, Marlina. Here there are those tear ducts again we always joke about your. You've inherited. It's the Filipino and me. That's the other part. And oh, and just so people know I'm not making fun of her crying this is a long standing joke that Marlina and I have had for decades of these tear ducts that we've inherited from our, our families. But you know, crying is good it's medicine right it helps just gotta rub it into the pores keeps you looking young. I'm kind of stressed out but before we head out. I just want to ask one more question and that is, and we've talked about this briefly in different spots around in our conversation but how can others be better allies to us to us as as playwrights. What do you think. Make it good because this is the last question. Producer friggin plays man produce them just do them. Give us money to do them give us money to make new ones if you like peace and you're like oh that was so good. We'd love to we loved it so much we'd love to commission you this that's also great but maybe also do the play that you liked why won't you do it. End of monologue. Anyone else. Take us seriously and don't give us notes that are about like oh but I don't think a Chinese person or XYZ person would do this. Right. Right about us critics reviewers academics right about us right about our work, because when you do then it gets passed on from generation to generation and then it becomes, you know, it lives on. It's definitely helpful to have our work and advocate for us, especially if you yourself have some clout. It's definitely helpful to have somebody in your corner, helping to elevate you because I can just tell you right off the bat I think there's still some places that if you get a cold email from like this random Asian American playwright they probably like well, I don't know somebody I know didn't refer them to me so I don't really care. So, refer us to your friends or people that you respect. Stop being our gatekeepers be multipliers. Kathy. Well, I mean I feel like you all said it all and Kiko especially how she started off so I 100% agree with that I mean the most important thing I feel like is to produce what we're doing to to give us opportunities to not just give give ratings but do full productions to fund us to fund our organizations, so we can produce our own work, and we can we can work with our own communities. And without the interference maybe from the outside, to me that would be a great way to be to be an ally is let us do our own thing without your interference into it. So trust us that what we're saying, you know is important, and don't censor us and I've had that experience as well to be be censored, choose, choose our stories. Not only the stereotypical ones like the Miss Saigon as Marlena mentioned but give take a chance on on playwrights. Come to our plays come to our events. Come to our community engagement things, right. Just because it's a loud play it doesn't mean you won't be able to connect to it. I promise you I'm going to create access points for you to connect to the story. Right. And I wanted to also add in because we didn't have a conversation about this once. Yeah, is right about us. You know, review us right about us critique us dialogue with us just as you would any other playwright. Yep, our group has created a Google Doc that we can send it send people like a bullet list of how people could be better allies. Just kidding we haven't made that we will make that somebody wants that so just so y'all know. We're coming towards the end of our event. Any, any sort of last thing people want to say before I get into the business of it. Oh, I was going to say, if you start can start off by googling every single name in this group. Yes, and learn a little bit more about us and follow us and maybe you'll just get some insights and like the next place that we're writing now. Yes, come back. Come check us out again in January. So in January, theater move we're going to present snippets of each one of our plays that we've been working on and so that's going to be in January there's going to be a zoom zoom readings of our scenes. So come back in January, please subscribe to theater moves newsletter, like, like us on Facebook find us in social media and social media and not just theater move but all of us here. And yeah, follow us and like us and support us. And before we head out. I just want to quickly again, thank our funder I want to thank the Science Museum of Minnesota for that wonderful wonderful mini grant that allowed us to pay all of our playwrights a stipend so that they could get things they need to get snacks, better internet, a mouse for their laptop, childcare, whatever right way I don't think anybody here needed childcare, except for me. So, yes, so thank you Science Museum for your money. I also want to thank how around theater Commons for being our partner in this and then also to the Mellon Foundation for supporting this work. And then, again, quick shout out to Josh who's our streaming producer Josh you want to come on camera and like give a peace sign. You wasn't ready for that. See, you wasn't ready for that that's how I do it, you know, gotta be on your toes around me. So, thank you so much. Check us out in January. Please sign up for theater moves newsletter because that's when you'll know about all the things that are happening with the Mutang clan. And yes we are called the Mutang clan get to know us. Thank you so much. Have a good night. It's so funny that we still wave. Right. I think