 G'day welcome to bootlossify and if you're new here, my name is Tech I acknowledge the traditional custodians of the lands that I live on here in Perth in Western, Australia Who are the Wajik people of the Nungan nation now? I'm really excited today because I'm meeting The founder of one of my favorite boot brands Parker's brand and it's Andrew Savisco Welcome Andrew. How are you going today? It's it. How are you? Not too bad We have a few logistics issues and we tried to set up because we're exactly 12 hours apart like it's 8 a.m. On a Saturday morning for me and what 8 p.m. On a Friday night for you, right? 8 p.m. On a Friday. Yep It can be it can be a doozy sometimes. Yeah I made a joke that I was having a coffee and after your day, which I'll explain in a minute You probably need a wine or a beer, right? Oh, yeah, we all have them though, so yeah and today's special because you dropped your autumn winter collection, right? I did. Yeah, so today was the main drop of the autumn winter collection There still will be some items just kind of straggling out more toward the end of the year here one of the Social media posts that I did recently was for the bidwell and the bidwell 2.0, which were just kind of our standard Derby slash Derby work shoe, whatever. I know there's like everyone calls it something different, right? So yeah, that's but that's you know, those are on deck too. So Probably should finish up around like Thanksgiving. I would think but you know probably won't be available until probably around Hey, like early mid-December something like that. So and then we have the I'm bringing back the Delaware But I'm running it with Seidel natural double-shot leather Something about that leather is just so supple and smooth and it's a very clean Consistent hide for it being a natural colored bovine article, which is it's uncommon But anyways, yeah, so you know that's that's on deck too. So, you know, there's a couple other things too But you know, we'll just see how everything pans out, right? So yeah, a lot of stuff to be excited about this season I think yeah, I'm very excited about the Delaware. I think a lot of your fans have been waiting for that for a long time Yeah, it's been I've definitely received some interest in it So, you know, that's kind of what led to the decision to rerun it here And yeah, so, you know, once it's once it's done, I'm excited to see how the batch is gonna turn out and We'll take it from there Yeah, for those who don't know the Delaware is a bro cap toe And I saw her in your seconds that you had an example, but I read the note saying it wasn't going into production. I went, oh really With with that one we were doing See it not to get not to get like too off off track or off topic, but I This question comes up a lot, right? Like especially regarding like factory seconds and samples I Decent amount of people do ask, you know, well, what's gonna make it to production? You know, if I see this thing in the sample section, is it actually gonna be produced and The the truth of the matter is there's really no rhyme or reason to it. There's no real certainty What we do is, you know, we'll we'll experiment with different patterns We'll put these we'll pull these patterns over different lasts and finish them with maybe some different souls You know, like right now we're doing just the in-house rubber studded one for the majority of this season So, you know in the seconds and samples section, you know, those are the types of samples you'll mainly see I mean, it's just kind of like one-off type of developments that just get fully ran through production and You know, sometimes we do run production on that exact boot other times. We don't other times, you know, they're just boots that are Just overstock or you know, they were laying around and never got inventoryed for whatever reason and you know Just kind of just random stuff But a lot of what appears there usually is size grading and I try to put that in the the grading scale that I use and A lot of the size grading stuff is just when we run production we started, you know We try to do it through like men's seven seven and a half through men's size 13 Maybe sometimes in but we haven't ran a stock 14 in a long time But so like a lot of what that'll be is We'll try to see how the patterns fit every size of the last Through production and to do that we want to test like Somewhere in the middle of that range, which just happens to be typically a nine and a half or ten Sometimes we'll get some eights in there. Sometimes we'll get some 11s or 12s in there just to see how kind of like the Outlying ends of the spectrum Turn out with the pattern combination with the last combination. So it's It's it's wildly Unpredictable, you know as to their availability Just because like there's there's always Something happening like there's always something going through right so But yeah, I mean so that Delaware pattern like, you know Now that I've talked your ear off about factory seconds and samples So the Delaware model specifically, you know, that was one of the patterns that we wanted to test out to see how it would How it would look how it would feel and fit Mainly against like people's Like ankle and insteps and like every every tweak or adjustment or change that I do to the pattern You know, there's there's usually a reason behind it. Even if it's just a fresh and things up like very much this season has been for But you know with that one we just wanted to see like how something like a Counter-pocket stitching would look without the counter-pocket being actually external With that wanted to kind of switch up a little bit of the stitching lines going across top of the quarters, but like Going down rather than at a sharp angle Maybe have it take of a curve and then just go straight down into where the quarter meets the vamp type thing so it's Honestly, it's it's nothing like, you know crazy ingenious, right? It's just little tweaks and things that we try to do just to See how things will ultimately turn out. So it's very subtle because I don't think a lot of your buyers will Sort of realize until you've have like, you know, six pairs of parkers in front of you That they are just slightly different that you don't really notice it, you know, and yeah That's on that's that's on purpose and I can understand where, you know A lot of people may even be turned off by that because there's probably a group of people out there who want that Consistently same It's reliability. It's dependability, right? but I guess like what I wanted to try to what I want to try to Can't talk tonight. It's Friday night, man What I wanted to try to do with with that more like the reasoning behind why I do that is To make each pair with each season or each year Just like a tad bit more exclusive to somebody so like somebody can say, oh, you know, I got the This snuff moose Allen's these were the ones from What are we in 2022? You know, or maybe, you know, I got the The Niagara mahogany's when they first launched with a commando soul and those were the 2022 ones like right now Rubbers So it's more or less the idea, you know, switching up the components switching up the patterns a little bit Again, like I said, it's nothing, you know, revolutionary and genius, but it's just kind of like this little touch I've been wanting to put on More or less every run just to kind of make it just a little bit more exclusive to somebody. Yeah but that's a good segue to your history because I'm I'm Titling this video when I uploaded a retrospective of Parkhurst So I think your history is quite well known I bang on about it every time I review one of your boots But let's hear it from the horse's mouth When when did you start and you know, why did you start stock analyst a bootmaker? What's going on? Yeah, so I think we start selling Parkhurst boots until it's like November of 2018 actually so coming up this this fall is really gonna be You know the five year anniversary here that year is Or no, we're in 2023 my apologies It's like that. I know. Yeah, maybe I should have brought that beer So yeah, I mean, I you know that first quote-unquote year Consistently maybe like 30 to 45 days in business so it was I Don't really count that as being like as 2018 being my first year in business even though like on paper it was right So really I look at you know 2019 2020 2021 2022 so and even this year so like it's It's been Quite a quite a ride, right? So I used to be a stock analyst for one of the big banks and it's it's what I wanted to do after college and I was doing it for I was doing that for about four and a half years or so after college too because I had this idea for Parkhurst in the back of my head and You know frankly and to be very honest, I didn't really know how I was going to get there at the time but I knew that I needed to make a substantial investment in production and in with partnering with factory and Establishing relationships with suppliers and stuff. So, you know, that was that was part of it, right? So, you know, I eventually got to a point where you know, I had about three straight years in a row Maybe maybe four in a row where I was working at the bank and we were putting in You know, 65 70 hour week was pretty typical There were a few times where I was pushing 80 82 84 that was That was crazy. I mean you become a you become a different person like after you that I want to say after you pass the 75 hour But it was just like it was just so it was just a lot right, but I knew that, you know, I needed to I Needed to be able to become To perform that job that I was in well in order to save up enough to do something like Parkhurst So there's not really a glitzy glamorous backstory. Like I didn't really, you know Go out and to investors and raise millions of dollars to start a company Did it with maybe it's an old-school mentality just sacrifice and save, right? Yeah But you know, you know, I got to a point when I was working at the bank and I was like, you know It's I was coming up on my fifth year at the time and I was like, you know When are you gonna take action on this this Parkhurst idea and what's it gonna be? Is it gonna be boots? Is it gonna be shoes? Is it gonna be? Clothing is it gonna be swim trumps? Is it gonna be t-shirts? Like, you know, what is it gonna be? and You know, I just kind of decided that I needed to really pursue this and Not to mention like I was getting very burned out, you know working for the bank And I just felt that at that time in my life, like it was the appropriate time to make the shift to make the change and You know is one thing kind of led to another and at the time I had the the factory I was working with was here in Western, New York and You know, I was living in Buffalo. So it's like, oh, like this is it's like a 30 minute drive or so to the factory So, you know, I I approached them and You know kind of tossed my idea to their management team and they were Extremely kind and generous to even talk to me because like I'm nobody. I'm still nobody So You know, next thing we know we started developing samples and in lasts and and just kind of prototypes here and there and Eventually, that's what led us into a production and by the time I hit production I was coming up on like two months before I was getting ready to give my two-week at the bank. I was working at and At that point, you know, we had I had some a couple of wholesale orders here and there I was driving my grandfather's Buick and selling boots out of the back of my trunk and there was, you know It was just, you know, the early days were were cool when starting up because it's like, you know You know, you're pouring all your time and your energy into something and the hopes that it's gonna grow or take you someplace real stepping Yeah, I mean Right and that's kind of like part of the reason why it was like boots to and you know, my My grandfather and my grandparents had a lot of influence in it too because they grew up You know with the Great Depression and during, you know a time where You know, there's world wars going on and things were tough. There wasn't always food like people didn't have a car like, you know it's People didn't even always have clothing like you not even access to hot water the stuff that we take for granted by seeing, you know, just You know Advertisements for everything everywhere, right? I mean, yeah I'm a little guilty of that too because I do run a very very small budget advertising But I guess my point is You know, it was they were kind of an inspiration to me too because they were just It's almost as if they pulled themselves up by their bootstraps and I was thinking myself like oh that phrase really does carry some meaning and You know my grandfather he worked in the steel mills a lot most of his life and It was he was just like to me like the symbol of like true grit like hard work like keep your head down Like stay focused like do what you need to do like tune out all the noise around you Don't pay attention to anybody else's Saying or telling you to do just just go for it and do what you know is right get the job You know what I mean like get the job done So like a lot of my inspiration just in motivation kind of came from that too So like it just kind of all tied together into being boots like it all just whole thing to me just kind of felt like boots So Parkhurst was named after the street your grandfather lived on yes Six or two comes from his landing ship tank number Yes. Yep. He was on so big inspiration Big inspiration. Yeah, I'm not sure if you're aware, but my day job is a management consultant And one of the things that I that really interests me is why people start business And and you know How driven they are by it and obviously your grandfather was part of that but what else drives you what what's what's that? That this Parkhurst boot thing must succeed what what is it inside you? Yeah, I mean it's It's a it's a yearning desire to To succeed like honestly, I really I know it sounds cliche. I know it sounds kind of crazy probably but You know, it's just having the ability and in the resources that you know I've sacrificed so much for and received so much help from other people for to make a better product to deliver better customer service to Deliver better fit and ultimately Deliver a feeling of satisfaction to people And you know the fact that I'm able to do this through something as simple as a pair of boots You know that brings a lot of joy to my heart, but it also gives me motivation to keep going I know I said something simple as a pair of boots. It's not simple All this stuff come together. Let me tell you But you know, I've always just had this you know, I was I Was raised like not to give up like I was raised not to you know I was raised to have like, you know, just Like big goals and like I know everybody's you know raised like that too But for whatever reason like I just couldn't shake that like I just couldn't Get it out of my head the desire to To create something You know and And give people a great product and give them great service and you know, I tried to take What I learned when working for the bank Because ultimately a lot of what I did was customer service like we had institutional clients So I try to take the customer service I learned at the bank and apply it to the business and they're two different fields, right? Do I give the best customer service? No But I try to you know be As positive and reasonable and as possible and help people out as much as I possibly can Um But you know, there's I I I think you talk yourself down there Andrew because Um in social media just about everybody says Andrew probably gives the best customer service, you know, you're you're highly responsive I try to be responsive, but it's it's it's kind of funny you mentioned um being highly responsive so like I don't know if this is maybe where I get it from but you know when I was working at the bank Like I was responsible for managing an email inbox of we received about I don't know if this is a lot Like really working at the bank has been my only professional work experience. Um, you know in In a corporation at least But I mean the key I managed was anywhere between Probably 400 to 700 emails a day um, and we had 30 to 50 Phone calls that were incoming each day to Sometimes related to the email sometimes not but I think that And like when you're working with with stocks and finances like you you've got to be quick Right, you got to be fast because if you don't take that phone call You know and the price moves or the currency moves And you have a client that you're trying to make whole or you know sell a position for like They're going to come back to you as the broker and be like, hey, what happened here? Why didn't you pick up your phone? Why didn't you answer your email quick enough? um, I wasn't a trader or anything. I was just an analyst but um, you know, it was uh I feel like maybe I Maybe I've brought some of that responsiveness into the business But even if I did like it's it's just kind of all I've known more or less Like coming into the business so Oh if that makes sense, but yeah Yeah There's a little story that um because you and I have emailed in the past as I've been buying your boots And I've bombed your emails about you know, what's the fit and all that sort of stuff But a couple of times I think it should be known a couple of times I've emailed you said I want that particular boot But I need my credit card to clear And you put the size, uh, you know aside for me, uh for a for a week or so, which is extremely generous Yeah Yeah, I've I've I've done that with other customers too And I mean like honestly, it's not really that big of a deal like some of my customers like They they have Like currency accounts themselves that they keep for just like retail buying or buying off of websites And they'll buy it in like the local currency or they'll use their currency to do it And they're like, hey, I need like three business days for this to settle and then I can purchase You know, it's no big deal. Okay, fine. You know, I'll just email me I'll set the boots aside for you. I put a post it on the box before I ship them say, hey reserve for tech. Oh and you know, that's just It's no big deal may mean as long as someone lets me know what they want to do. I'm game Well, it's very personal. It's very personal. Um, I want to go back to something you said about, you know, the bootstrapping of your business There are others and I'm not going to name names But there are others that started with Kickstarter campaigns or they did go to the market to get capital Do you regret not getting that sort of base capital up as part of your history? um No, because every time I was approached by an investor or um Or a vc company It always came at such a cost and that cost is Ship of my company and to this day. I own 100 of the shares of it. So um, I've been fortunate enough to have a lot to have a well a few very good mentors in my life and um You know, it's just Every one of them I didn't realize it like when I was first starting but as parkhurst has grown I see the importance of you know, quote-unquote hanging on to your business um And it's not like I didn't like pay attention to it. I think it was important back then. It's just that, you know, when you're first starting it's like You're trying to sell boots so that you can, you know, make finance the next production order so you can bills You know, I just do, you know, whatever's gotta be done, right? um but I mean I was approached by Like this one this one investor like, you know, they had a A pretty decent amount of a cash offer, but you know the stake in the company was just It was too big. I think at the time it was some like 35 40 percent And yeah, the cash looks cool and everything, you know being young and and dumb Frankly, you're right. I mean when you're first starting like you don't know everything, right? So um I'm gonna um, so You know, and then there was this other investor who um, you know, I won't really talk too much about it, but You know, he was big. He was very very big. Um On tv plenty of times and that's all I'll say about it You know, and they made me, you know, like a an offer that was like 70 percent of the company And I was like it's like I had to negotiate down to the 70 I mean, it was uh, yeah, I just That's that's not that's not an investment. That's a takeover. No, that's takeover. That's Isn't somewhat hostile at that point. I don't know but It's very aggressive offer and deal, but you know what it just kind of Made me realize, you know, like Uh, I was in like my what late 20s at the time and You know, I was I was in my late 20s and living at home. I mean Through it. That's what it was. I mean, you know, and I wanted to start the company and I I had to I had to live at home to save up enough money for my day job and In order to be able to do something like this because I saw what You know, what was going to happen with um With with people who wanted to make investments in my company and it always involved me losing a lot of control now Just back up a hot second here. I'm I don't want to come across as a control freak, you know Because I keep saying I don't want to give up control, but at the same time like I look back at these past few years and I I see the things that I was able to do the shifts that I was able to make the the Contacts I was able to make the factors I was able to work with I don't think I would have been able to do that if I had a board, you know what I mean Like I don't think I've been able to and and don't get me wrong like Parker says this You know massive company or whatever, but um I don't think that I would have had the the same type of success that I've had so far um be it small or you know, however it's perceived but um Yeah, I I thought about Kickstarter. I thought about other things like that but I don't know. I guess just everything I'm happy with the way things are going like I can't I can't really complain, you know, am I growing the fastest? No, you know, am I growing the slowest? No, but at the same time like I'm having a good time just kind of servicing my current customer base and picking up new ones here and there So, you know, if that's that's kind of where I stand with that Yeah, I I understand the control thing because it's um, there's business control or governance control, but but I think in a company like yours it filters down through everything So there's design elements and so on that you just don't want to keep going through the layers, you know So I totally understand that but but um, I think one of the public things that we saw as customers Was the code challenge that like your website, you know practically disappeared Uh, and people who don't understand business sort of Oh, you know became critical or parkers doesn't have enough models and all that without understanding the investments in it So, um, how big a challenge was it? So, um, it was a bit it was big. I mean I you know, I I don't want to go into too much of the nitty-gritty stuff here, but um But hell it's friday night and I got some time So and there's a beer afterwards Yeah but um Yeah, I mean look, you know, it's interesting because like It was it was it was difficult. I mean it was difficult. I mean that's that's that's you know, the one word to sum it up, right? I mean I I saw the factory that I worked with like, you know, 30 minutes away from me go under and Like they like I knew the crew there I knew the manager. I knew the owner like it was it was it was tough seeing them because like seeing them go under because it was I mean they they brought this thing to life like when I was selling prototypes out of my trunk like so it was like And into into scallon production with them. It was very difficult um to to to watch that happen and You know, even through covet, you know, I was still submitting monthly purchase orders to them I was still submitting monthly orders to my suppliers and um, you know, I would like to think that I I did all that I could uh, but at the end of the day like it just Kind of eventually turned into something that was bigger than them. It was bigger than me. Um But yeah, it was tough and regarding what you mentioned earlier as as an example um, it was it was tough also just seeing like the comments that people were saying online about about parkhurst and I I feel like maybe there's an illusion that parkhurst is like this huge company when it's really not it's just me like Like i'm in my warehouse now. So like I Pack organize sort ship everything I do finishing touches here in the warehouse like gluing the heel pads cutting them Sanding burnishing if there's any sewing that's got to be you know, just just just random finishing stuff, right? so it's it was hard like because like not everybody knows right and um It was it was tough to see those comments because it's like I said, not everybody knows like the The timed effort and frankly the capital that's put into making this whole thing run and work um But yeah, like you said the website was bare like it was bare for a long time And you know as soon as the factory shut down a week or so after actually I thought to myself, you know what? um People got to know what's going on because There's going to be little to no inventory for probably a good nine ten months after so I that's when I started the production update and um On my website and I I guess I treated it more like a blog more than anything Is I tried to update it like twice a week or sometimes once a week? I'm sure there was you know some gaps in between but um basically I wanted I didn't want my customers to feel let down just because the factory closed because The truth of the matter is even before COVID Shoe factories in the united states in particular were closing left and right. I mean it's just a fact of you know reality and um You know, it just so happened that the one I was partnered with was You know one of the ones that was in business longer so You know, I wanted to do my part to try to help that part of the industry, right? but When I started doing the production update again, like I just I needed people Who had been on this journey who had been along for this ride for the past Was it three years at that time or something? You know to know that like hey I'm not just going to throw in the towel here like I wasn't raised to just throw in the towel like something bigger and better can be done from this situation and You know at that time, you know, it's like the The factory closed and then I had you know, there are even a few Um tanneries here that ended up closing too. So it's like I lost, you know, my supplies from them um And really when a factory closes like in year and mid production, which we were I mean you're talking massive setbacks massive delays massive amounts of work and process boots, you know massive amounts of frankly capital that was invested to you know produce what's being produced, right? um, so it was it was a little bit of a hit but you know at that time like I had been searching high and low for additional factories to partner with in the us and I had before It's just that the one in the one in uh, western york and betavia was my main one. Um Just because they'd been around for the longest, right? I mean I I have worked with other factories in the us before to do very small runs or prototyping and sampling but By the time covet actually arrived they themselves had actually gone out of business or they were um, you know On the break of from what I saw And it's it's tough to make a it's it's tough to It's it's tough to see that kind of thing happen and also know that like The order i'm going to give them isn't going to be nowhere near enough what they need to sustain themselves for the next 30 business days so like that hurts me too because it's like I don't like I want to help but at the same time like if if I don't have the tools to help or if I don't Or if i'm just too young of a company to be able to make a significant impact um, that's also something I kind of had to realize too and People were telling me that left and right. I didn't want to believe them but um, you know, that's kind of one of the things that I had to realize as well and it kind of led me to Um production in spain, um, which has been a pretty big shift here um But honestly ultimately when we ultimately we've been we've been able to make a better quality product I think and um, it's been hard to It's been hard for me to come to that um To come to that realization because like we we tried to make you know Our our boots in the us up to a certain level of quality and specifications Um, you know that were desired by customers, right? And I think that for the most part we achieved a lot of what customers were generally looking for um But at the same time like one of the major setbacks with manufacturing Uh with the factories that were still in business or open at the time here in the us Was a lot of them simply didn't have Machinery to like do things like use leather heel counters. Um, they didn't have the proper nailing equipment to nail Uh heals the way that I wanted to nail them. Um Even right down to like soul stitching. It was like with every factory, um, I visited like there was always at least 20 to 25 percent of what I was looking for missing um And as a business when you're when you're getting emails and in and reach outs from customers asking for those very things that those very missing machines or even skilled labor at the time Uh would not possess then Yeah, I mean it it it becomes it becomes tough. Um But I'm lucky to be partnered with some really great people in spain who are actually friends of the former factory Uh that I used to work with here. So, um, it's interesting. You know, that's more or less how I got introduced Um, so it's interesting like the dynamic like this the shoe manufacturing industry is like It seems big but like when you're in it as a business like you discover how Small it actually is Everybody knows everybody Everybody seems to know everybody or know of everybody. So like it's You know, it's just one of those industries. That's like it. I guess It's interesting, you know, because I I I was a big fan of the work coming out of the potato factory because I think there was a certain ruggedness About it, but I think you're right is the the Spanish factory Provide something more consistent in in what they do It's just different. I think if you if you're looking for, um, this is where I show you one The good old-fashioned iconic spruce kudu, uh from the battalion factory There's there's just a certain ruggedness about it. Whereas, um, the the current models are much more consistent and and, um Dressier almost, you know Yeah, I mean it's um You know, this is something I've I've I've seen for the entire time I've been doing this and it's an interesting point you point you bring up actually um I've worked with probably 14 or 15 different factories globally, um by now and, um You know, I could give the same pattern the same last the same tooling the same dies to all these factories and um Please make me a sample. Please make me a prototype When all let's just let's just say let's just use the number 15 to keep it, you know somewhat rounder number All 15 of these factories finish a boot for me and they send them to me or I pick them up or whatever And I guarantee you they're all going to look different And because there's there's they just will and that's because like Well Every set of hands at every factory So something differently turn something differently if it's differently, um, you know, there's a set of hands like staining the edging differently every time maybe you know one Veg hand supplier is different than another veg hand supplier in the sense that You know in this with regards like heel stacks mid-souls or what like that like it's all, you know, generally they'll have They'll have what you want, right? It's just that It might just be ever so slightly different and you you you combine that with Different people, you know again different sets of hands like Involved in making these boots and turning them around the machines or Or sanding them or nailing them or staining, you know, you pair all these different variables together and that's why there is really always going to be a difference between from one factory to the next but it's interesting though because When I was producing with the factory in here in western New York, you know, they produce for other like really big brands, too yeah, like You know, I would almost argue like are there similarities between the other big ones they were producing for and mine and even amongst them Yeah, of course, there were definitely similarities but where I think the factory shines is In its ability to make something look completely different from something else they made even though the build may be the actual same um So, you know, that's why you know when we talk about like The 602 last line of production and the 602 m last line of production They're they're just two different production lines But again like at the factory and that was here in western New York They were making boots as many people know for other companies too, but yet we still were able to keep You know our products, I would say different to a pretty decent level I mean, I know they're I'm sure there are some people out there who would argue Oh, they all look the same or you know, they're too many similarity similarities and that's fine um But yeah, it's it's an interesting point you bring up because it is something that I've seen working with differences suppliers and factories for sure Do you like that because I do I like the variation um like personally um Yeah, I mean I I think it's cool. I mean what variety is the spice of life, right? Yeah But kind of like what I mentioned like earlier earlier in our chat here, you know, it's like there there are A decent amount of people out there who I do believe like they will only buy something if it's consistent every single time Yeah, and they are too. So when I try to keep consistent No matter what is I mean, we may change the upper leathers around we may change some components around like the eyelets We may change the patterns But as long as the last is the same and as long as it's consistent because they're 3d printed. So they're relatively exact from Um, place to place, you know, as long as there's some form of consistency that's held there um, then, you know, it's It's okay with me, you know, if it's if it's okay with everybody else. Yeah. Yeah Those people should buy timberland, but we won't go into that um I Interesting point about switching to the Spanish factory, obviously is you you can't I I saw an interview with The owner of the the Batavia factory who said that you were pretty hands-on Kind of guy and you were in the factory quite often What's it like not being able to drive around for 30 minutes to have a look at what's going on? um well, I mean It's it's different, but it's not bad Like that's kind of one of the weird things about this though because like It's like well now I have like other responsibilities in my warehouse. I have other responsibilities for shipping and fulfilling I have other responsibilities for design. Um you know for sourcing for You know prototyping with different factories. I mean I do I do kind of miss the drives out there and being able to kind of Go in and and see what was going on and look at my stuff actually being made um, but at the same time like I also didn't want to like wear out my welcome because like Gotta keep in mind like this is a very Hardworking group of people. I mean they're you know in the factory using their hands. They got machines running all the time. It's hot um You know, they're trying to meet deadlines and produce a quality product Just like, you know, all of us are in our own careers, right? so Like it's we had I really enjoyed the relationship I have with them But you know, it's there there are sometimes where it just things are just too busy And the last thing I'm going to do is show up when it's pandemonium Yeah Why But But um Yeah, I mean it I do kind of miss it But I mean honestly like right now there are many other things that I'm trying to improve, you know, both with myself and with parkers. So It's funny how you get like older and time goes by that like your Priorities kind of like shift they kind of change in like a few You used to enjoy doing a lot. It's like, you know, you look back and you and you might be like, oh, hey, yeah That was a great time. But like You know the time that I'm in now like is Arguably it could be even better. So Yeah, there must be one thing you miss though Like like being at the end of the line and having a look and going oh just change that stitch Oh, I mean that takes a week, right? Oh like, um Oh Like rick was one of the guys there who um I gotta I I feel like I got along with him pretty good But like he would always be like toward um The end of the line like doing the soul stitching or the heels and like people, you know switched up to do Different tasks in different production stages throughout the factory. So I can't really like speak Specifically for or directly for people, you know at the factory because you know, I wasn't I wasn't them, right? But Like it was always kind of cool like finish or seeing the the finishing racks where the boots were like just coming out from you know having the the stain applied or from having the heels just put on or from Or from having them ran under the heat one last time I mean like we there were boots that were ran under heat like Constantly like it would be like a small blow torch or just like a heat gun even or I mean, they're I mean you can get machines that You know, they're they're just industrial machines that just blow out like hot air similar to what a heat gun would do And you just do that to try to like bring a little bit more color and life to the texture of the leather Like bring the oils and waxes to the surface. Um, you know kind of like how you have a Sort of Like a pull-up effect almost like when you run your hand along a leather You can see the waxes and the oils separate, you know from the pressure wool running it under heat um Can and how Both bring oils and waxes to the surface or it can also put them back into the leather depending if they had already been on All right, so that's why Over here. I keep a blow dryer and a heat gun in my warehouse in case I need to do it In case I need to do any of that before I send out a pair, so But um Yeah, so I I do I do miss it right like I do I do miss it um But you know kind of like what I said earlier like I I have other obligations, you know in the terms of meeting customer needs and meeting customer demands and In working with the the new factories and stuff too. So Yeah, okay. Um, let's talk lasts Uh all favorite the 18. This is my very first Parker's boot this folding Was that the natural? Yeah, natural chrome excel. Yeah, it's now. I mean you can see how old it is now. It's pretty Like that natural always gets to be that dark color beautiful. My mind is gorgeous, but yeah beautiful. Um, yeah the Yeah fan favorite. Will it come back? I know. Yeah, um, honestly, I have no plans to bring it back Um, I I gotta be perfectly honest that last was um It was the first last I launched with right, but it just had I don't know. I feel like it worked for half the people who had it and it didn't work for half bought it and you know, it's just Some people there wasn't enough room in the toe others. There was too much in the arch There was too much in the heel and everybody's foot's going to be Different and fit differently, right? So, um, Yeah, that one Sorry to say, but I I have no plans to bring it back Yeah people online saying like oh bring back the 18 I bought it a small hashtag or something for bring back the 18 Yeah, it's just unfortunately, sorry Yeah, I People's feet are different. I mean I people make make comments on my videos like oh, I wear such and such in this What shall I wear in xyz and I'm like, don't ask me. I'm just telling you how my feet work, you know You got to figure it out. Um, but what was the what what inspired the 602 last? Um, well a lot of stuff that didn't work from the 18 Really really frank here But yeah, so I mean like, you know, we I I I took what The feedback I got from My awesome customers with regards to what but didn't work for them with the 18 last or Maybe what they would see wants to be improved um Like I knew I wanted to make a little bit rounder of the toe box I think the 18 last had the almond taper was maybe a little bit too pointy um But the the idea with the 602 last was to I Was in in with in my own mind or with my own objective to to create just a little bit more of a sleeker but roomier last two and I don't know if I have achieved it or not frankly I mean I look at some boots and I'm like, yeah It kind of looks, you know a little bit Maybe sleeker or maybe cooler. I don't know. Um, but then I then like I'll look at some other boots and maybe it's Probably just the upper leather that's being used to be honest But I look at other boots with like a different leather and be like, oh man, this looks like Like not at all what I wanted it to look like But but like this is how this is how production turns out sometimes like you can order Or make a last sample You know, you give it to a factory or two and they make it up and going back to what I said earlier, right? Like every factory is gonna make something not different, right? Well, the same thing happens with lasts too. Uh So it becomes You know, it becomes a game of uh of just Putting a giant puzzle together kind of like what piece you want to or what piece is gonna fit where and um You know the the 602 was a culmination of Fixing some or making improvements rather from the 18 last but also making A last that was kind of originally what I wanted the 18 to be like I wanted the 18 to be a little bit more lower profile um A little bit more sleek and I know there are some customers out there who have already told me Oh, but the 18 last already, you know for them, it's it's sleek and for them It's low profile But you know for you know other customers they would say the same they would say the opposite of that, right? They'd be like well, you know, it could be a little bit You know, you know, maybe a little bit more sleeker. Maybe a little bit more open in the toe box and that so Um, it's kind of a culmination of everything there. Just one of the six I think people like the 18 because it is Slimmer and dressier but the 602 I think I'm pretty sure would fit most of most feet rather than, you know, a small selection But you made some adjustments to it, right when you when you started producing in spain, you Uh made it a little bit higher volume was it? So it just so so here's the crazy thing um And I I know I've told a couple of people this I don't know how you know how word circulates or how fast it does but so when we move production to spain It's actually the same Last the reason why there's more volume that got added to it was because there was Or or at least the illusion or the feeling that there's more volume added to it Is because we started using like thicker and different internal components So like the biggest example of that Is you know, we were using Just a slightly thicker like for the insole for example It's veg tan bends leather um We were using just an ever so slightly thicker one maybe like by a half a millimeter But then we started using like The leather heel counters, which is something that factors in the states couldn't do because they didn't have the machinery to do it and um, you know, so Pairing that with using like thicker Upper leathers and different leathers and different welts and different midsoles And and what i'm what i'm trying to say is when you combine all these things together You don't always get the same boot that you had from a previous factory, especially one who's using different components So if we were to Take an example, um, like i'm looking at keep looking at this snuff moose boot here you know, we're The leather heel counters on these right so um Before like and you can almost kind of tell like it does take up some It is almost yeah like a round. Yeah back right more round um Which is something i actually tailored a little bit more for The current drops that i just did today. We kind of tailored it more to the heel the last but but going back to this example um When you're wrapping in building wrapping these thicker leather components Or Upper leathers even around the last They don't hug as tight around the last even if it's hand lasted or pulled over by a machine They don't hug and hold as tight as other internal components Um that i've even worked within the past do so as an example um Back in the day and when we were producing the factory in new york, we were using uh thermoselastic Uh heel counters So they were great because they were easy to work with like they were really easy to work with in production and The machines worked well with them too. We didn't have to constantly, you know recalibrate anything Things weren't breaking. We didn't have to well the factory didn't have to send away for replacement parts. We didn't have to um, you know Or they didn't have to have like a dedicated repair person To you know, the machine that that made or molded rather the heel counters, but So as a result of that like I would almost say that with the build that I had in the western new york factory I would almost Say that the boots probably fit more snug on people than they do now having made These different upgrades and the only reason why Well, really the second reason why I say that in addition to components is um Because I've had customers who they've tried my boots in the past and they've ultimately returned them because they the fit Just didn't work for them, right on the previous build here in western new york But when they try the ones that are spanish built You know, it was it worked for them So, you know that kind of tells me and and I I try to take in all these little data points during production and feedback and fit Um, you know, that kind of tells me that you know, this is This is how it This is kind of how it played out. So it's it's interesting. You say it's the same last because uh, It seems bigger, right? New york and spanish Look exactly the same, but I I feel it's bigger in from the spanish one. Yeah weird, yeah it's A lot of it has come down to The components used I mean even I mean, this is going to sound really nuts, but like I've even used, you know the cork that goes inside like Like the cavity like where the Yeah, so like that channel that the the cork goes in um I mean, I've even used Again, bear with me on this because I know it's going to sound nuts. I even use different size cork filler to fill that and I'll still notice a difference in fit of the I know I sound but it's It's little It's little stuff like this that if unless you actually try it and see it. It's like And most people probably aren't even gonna like, you know, think twice about it, right? Like no, it's because like, you know, I'm I'm seeing it right and like I'm feeling it I'm pulling it and ultimately hey like I feel a sense of responsibility to the customer as well like hey if this fits change then You know, then it's changed because of the build. I mean when we get into using Um, like thicker upper leathers or or different even different articles of upper leathers And I'm sure there's people there are people who can attest to this because they've emailed me about it But even those boots might fit them differently Yeah I know that when we were making like the spruce curie, for example, and we were making them in the betavia factory Um with the components that we were able to get, you know, within the us at the time before You know, a lot of people went out of business um Again, like that boot was running a little bit more snug for people than It is in the same spruce curie model. Let's say for something that's, you know built in spain so there is It sounds crazy, right? But there is some truth to it. I I bought two boots once at the same time as the light natural sidle double shot and the veg retan Yes, two richman boots bought at the same time fit differently Yeah, I feel like that that's that sidel veg retan leather. Um Yeah, sidel is such a great tanner to work with I mean really they all they all are but Yeah, I mean like so that one too like Another leather article that can kind of throw people for a little bit of a loop because you have A double double shot leather Which is like by the time they finish it it's got like this like supple Nice shiny kind of smooth finish It wraps around the last really nice in production You know, it comes out well. It pulls over well It can be sewn underneath the insole really well and you know the the sidel the veg retan ones That is a stiffer drier Leather and working with that in production usually leads to the upper leather not being able to be Wrapped around the last as tightly I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess that your veg retans probably felt a little bit bigger and stiffer than the double shots Yep, is that about right? That's right. And and and that's Really, that's why I mean That that particular veg retan model or article rather from sidel That was a dry stiff leather Um, you know the the veg retan model I have now on the Niagara model, you know, we were able to Change a few things up in the tanning process for it so that it actually comes out more soft and a little bit more supple Now is it a supple like double shot or cremexel? No, but it's not like dry and stiff, you know, I mean Yeah, yeah, I did like that stiffness. I I conditioned it with a with a little bit of big four, which I kind of regret because it made it Less less of matte Oh Yeah, yeah, yeah You take a hairdryer and if you apply if you like run heat over it for a minute or two, it might change it a little bit too Okay, I'm gonna try that Um, yeah, tell me about this one The nick collaboration. How did that come about? It's crazy, right? Um Beautiful It's it's it's crazy. You know, I was so I was talking to uh, the CEO of nicks one day and um Shilor like Super great guy really into boots, you know, just like me And um, you know, it's such an honor to talk to him really like it was an honor that somebody From nicks was talking to you know, some small fish in the pond like me to begin with So like I was like super excited like even just to be acknowledged, right? Next thing, you know, he's in Buffalo and we're getting brunch together and discussing like boot stuff here and um I was like, I was so appreciative of his time and and really the entire staff at nicks boots time and attention to doing this. Um I mean, it was it was it was crazy. I mean the clap the collaboration boot went Went really well a lot of interest. Um, I know At the time of this recording what to say, September 1st. Yes, September 1st Um, there's still a lot of orders for people that have to be made and shipped out but I'm just so grateful that nicks was able to squeeze this project in with their regular production. I gather more or less and um, yeah, I mean the idea behind this was To You know, we were sitting and talking and you know, we had some phone calls and and all that with You know to with me with his team and and and shy with me And you know, I told him I was like You know, what if we did something where we kind of combined the two boot worlds here because like we look at a lot I mean, well at least the way I viewed this and maybe this isn't a popular view or maybe I'm wrong here, but um, the way I kind of view the boot market right now is like everybody's out to Do their own Thing to make their own design their own thing that they're going to be known for right There's nothing wrong with that. In fact, that's what like most designers and brands come to thrive on and do right So like this one was different in the sense that I haven't really seen And I could be totally wrong in this but I haven't really seen another boot company Announce and do something like this to the extent that we both did you know, we because like I wanted to kind of create The the best of both worlds like I have a pretty decent amount of customers who tend to like the fit of my 602 laughs and they like the The profile of it and you know how it looks right the silhouette But at the same time, you know, it's like wouldn't it be wild if we just like through like a traditional pacific northwest Like boot build like in with this last just to see what would happen Like so, you know next thing we know we're just kind of again just doing some sampling and prototyping and we're like Oh, this actually looks pretty cool. And then we just kind of started getting into talking logistics and You know if we were to do a group order how we would do it and Ultimately, you know, we're just like, you know what let's take Let's take the 602 last And I don't don't quote me on this but I think nix might have said something like We'll just open up all of our leathers or a ton of our leathers to it or something and we'll let people choose And oh and that's what happened. Um, so is it a best representation of the best of both worlds? Whatever both worlds may be, um, you know $400 good year well boot versus, you know the the tank of a pacific north northwest Um, and we'll just see how they kind of fuse together and like I don't know for me It was more about a collaboration like unity type thing So Yeah, like I'm just really grateful to be able to work with them and I'm really grateful for their time and All the energy they've put into making this become a reality and And talking to me about it. So yeah, yeah, I think it's great. I've loved putting them on there. They are they They they feel different they fit the same but I think they built on their their sort of Arch system Yes, they feel it a little bit longer, but I as I said to you on email I think eventually as it settles in it should it should be the same, but I love it. Yeah That's one thing that's one thing. Um, that like I noticed during when we were like doing prototypes and stuff and Um with their build like their build is like, I mean everyone knows the build of nix like this rocks So So one of the things that I did notice was you know with the way they build the arch and The way like a lot of like the Hand lasting and the sewing and the different heel counter pattern and and again, it's kind of like what I mentioned earlier, right? It's a different factory. It's all different More or less different, you know Dimensions of components if we really want to boil it down um And when you bring all those things together, it does produce ultimately something different, right? But at the same time different is what we're looking to achieve. So Taking that into consideration, you know, that's why I put up on the pre-order page. I was like, you know I forget how exactly what exactly I said, but I do believe I said something to the extent of You know, these are going to fit snug the in step is going to be more snug because the way the arch is Um, you know with the build with all the components the stitch down construction things will feel a bit more Like snug like you might feel snugness in places. You wouldn't feel with like one of my boots even though the last is the same um It pattern to right like their pattern is ultimately different the tongue is different the lacing is different. Um, The eyelet dimension and stitch stitch down versus good you will that must create a difference exactly exactly so, um, you know pairing all those things together like It it was um We felt comfortable making Like the same size to size comparison. So like if you were taking like If you so for example, if you're like a d right on d width say you're a size eight Um, you know, we would recommend an eight in this collaboration boot and you know so far. It seems to be working for uh many people so Um, you know having said that it's probably not going to work for every single person You know and that's where you know, I'm happy to provide any size and guidance on that, you know when when needed, but Yeah, I mean like it was I remember when I got the samples and I started wearing some samples around and I was thinking myself Is like over the course of like one afternoon And I was thinking myself, you know, I started out wearing them in the early afternoon Then come dinner time Earlier I was like wow these are these are snug. Is this is my last like I was I was thinking about But then like, you know come five six o'clock or whatever. I was like, oh man these things feel like slippers Yeah, they settle in they settle in I I got the brown chromic cell because it was a quick ship Uh, but the rest of really really beautiful nicks leathers out there. They're still coming out Oh, yeah, yeah, I mean like some of those like seven eight ounce leathers they use like those ones shouldn't fit as like Snug, but they're definitely gonna be stiff to break in but they they might feel a little dog I don't know. What I do know is that, you know, if you're hand-lasting A seven or eight ounce leather as opposed to hand-lasting a four and a half five or five and a half ounce leather It's kind of like what I said earlier like it It's going to hold to the last differently Right, because there's not going to be as much as much space or volume because Due to the leather weight and the thickness so so yeah, it's yeah Yeah, so so it's a v one. Is there going to be a v two? Good question. Um, I don't know yet. I think our I think our focus right now is just to Fulfill all the orders and get feedback from customers first and You know, just take that feedback into consideration and we'll have to see if there's going to be a V two or not true of it Let's uh, we might finish off with talking about where you're going You've you've been bringing out your own leathers and in fact your own outsoles like you you have your own commando soul You now have your own Rubber studded soul. I'll call it a day night, but it's similar Um, what what further plans have you got? What's coming up? Well, I mean right now it's been It's been a pretty big effort just to get to like customize Souls and heels to begin with so I do think for the foreseeable future. There's going to be In in buy foreseeable future I would probably say Through early next year. Maybe spring next year. We're probably going to be using a lot of the um In-house made like studded souls commando souls. There's a couple of cork options. I might throw in there too um, but you know cork is one of those things it's like Uh, some people love it and some people hate it like I'm 50 50 split down the middle. So like Usually in a in a situation like that, you know, just it just depends and it could just be literally the people Who I'm talking to it could have just been the sample size, right? Um So in terms of souls, that's That's kind of what we're doing, but you know with the with one of the spanish Tannery's I work with they're in the same town as the factory and what's cool about manufacturing in spain so far is that Everybody seems to be like within the same town. Like there's so many Shoemaking operation pain like it's it's it's it's something I never really knew until I actually started looking into it and learning about it and um, you know, it's like It's almost familial too because like you'll have something where Like somebody owns the shoe factory, right? But then like I don't know their brother owns a rubber company that makes out soles and heel top lifts for the shoe factory Oh, but they're in the next town over a 20 minute truck drive away Oh, but but then it's like well, maybe You know the the the the the the matter woman who owns the the rubber factory You know their childhood best friend just happens to own the only vegetating uh leather 100 mile radius or something like everybody seems to just know And and honestly like that's that's to me what I think is cool about it because I mean to to be very blunt and honest here like the biggest thing that hurt me Doing 100 manufacturing is the in the u.s. Is when the supply chains took a hit and when the labor crisis They manifested You know when you're making a pair of boots He got he can't have anywhere between like 20 25 different components coming together And each component usually is coming from a different place, right? So you're drug all these different places trying to bring everything together to make one pair of boots, right? so Like in in spain like for me, it's I mean when it comes to that it's worked really good But like we're also able to get quality components as a result of it too um, you know With that kind of stuff happening in the in the u.s. I would have been I would have had to close down the company and be out of business in a heartbeat, but But anyways, that's how things are That's how things seem to be set up in spain right now and um, so far it's been working So far it's been working really well, and I'm and I'm looking forward looking forward to seeing, you know What's going to play out more in the future and in the meantime, we're just we're still doing things like experimenting with tanning, you know, just different custom colors and of upper leathers and different articles of upper leathers and stuff like that too so and at the same time like i'm still able to work with side l and Horween and and cf stat and kind of Still able to bring, you know, all the the heavy hitting tanneries altogether, you know into my production But i'm also able to bring some more custom stuff to the production line as well so I mean, yeah, there's There there's always there's always something going on right like there's always something being worked on there's always The question is whether it's going to make it to production or not Well, one of the things that I see in My view of the parkers dna I've got a pair of viberg service boots on right now and i'm i've publicly said Why would you need vibergs when you've got parkers because one of the things that I see in parkers dna Is that your your service boot pattern? I mean go back to the spruce kudu your service boot pattern is a classic service boot pattern But what you do in parkers is you find interesting uppers And then you change it up with you know with different outsells. Is that something intentional? I mean It is right. I mean like it's you got to have some variety in what you're doing in order to In order to better Serve your your customer. I I mean like I thought about having you know things like Like this year was the first year I did a core a core line of of leathers if you will and it was the waxy leathers So like the black in the two the the allen the rust waxy I don't put myself in the same category as Viberg, I mean they're like the king of the hill as far as i'm concerned But in price too Well, yeah, I mean but I mean look they make an they make an incredible boot. I mean that's that's the thing. I mean and um And and yeah, I mean like but you know Price I think is just all the price is relative. I mean it's all relative You know, I I say on my website and I've I've had you know many discussions with prospective customers, you know, it's For me, I price my products according to literally what it costs to make them and what it costs to sell them It's that simple. That's just there's no I mean, I see a lot of brands that like try to break down and like some kind of like markup or like a Like a retail type of markup I don't do retail man. Like You want to come to my website send me an email hook. Yeah. I mean that's you know so But I think it's um, I think it's important to have, you know, some variety, right? And I'll always try to have some variety But it is it is intentional because I want to be able to Constantly offer something different and it kind of goes back to what I was saying. Like I want my customers to have That feeling that they got something that's a little bit more Unique or like a one-off run. I mean most of my boots pretty much are one-off runs I mean, I know I've restocked like this Bruce kudu gaucho moose snuff moose and um Cumulus and camel kudu. Yeah That was it. Um Well, that's like six boots or so right there. But but for the most part like I don't I usually don't do restocks, right? um But yeah, I mean, I just want to try to give people You know a variety and just try to make the pair that they Ultimately get just a little bit more special to them Well, that's a good place to finish Andrew. We kind of circle around with a variety Aspect so that's great. Was there any last messages that you might want to give to your customers? um honestly, like I just I just want to thank everybody like from the bottom of my heart for Literally just sticking with parkers through Crazy tumultuous times and I'm so thankful for the people who Haven't lost faith in me. Um, haven't lost faith in the factories I work with the suppliers that I work with because it's not It's not like, you know, I say, you know parkers is just me, you know But the truth is it's not like parkers really is like It's everybody with whom I work like it's the factories. It's the suppliers. It's It's it's it's everybody. I mean, it's my mentors. It's like I wouldn't be able to do this parkers wouldn't be able To be at the point where it is at now If it wasn't for all these other Like outside influences and forces that have helped catapult, you know parkers to where it's at now so and and really the bedrock of that is Or are my customers really because without their support like we the train doesn't keep moving, right? I mean the trains and that train almost when the factory closed here and when covid got bad and In the labor crisis manifested and supply chain crisis manifested so Yeah, I mean, you know, I I really appreciate everybody's patience and in working with me and in Allowing me time to respond to their emails and to be Transparent as transparent with them as I possibly can about what was going on I I really hope I painted A decent picture for everybody As to what was going on what was happening what next steps were I hope I was on time for everybody and you know when we when I relaunched in january of this year and you know, look I I'm just incredibly grateful and humbled because I I can't do this without call you guys I can't and neither could Factories because the customers ultimately are supporting, you know, my suppliers are supporting the tanneries and they're supporting the factories too. So It's we're all interconnected here. So it's it's really effort We are we are um, you have a lot of fans andrew I I I see that from my from the comments coming in from the reviews I I see that on my posts and instagram people are loving your brand and yourself. I think which is which is As long as I like the boots Well, um, I'll just do a final message to the viewers. I I hope you like that Uh, don't forget to click on like and subscribe, uh, of course and andrew. Thank you very much for your time I was very excited to get to talk to you like this and I'm even more excited now that we have Thank you very much. Thanks. I appreciate it, man. I'll talk to you soon, right? Talk to you soon