 So all right Hello, everybody and welcome to the hyper ledger your technical steering committee meeting Everybody is welcome to attend and participate so long as you abide by our code of conduct and the antitrust policy And the former the code of conduct helps ensure that everybody's contributions are discussed respectfully and With that we can jump into announcements Against my better judgments did some tinkering with the proposed Maintainers summit the first date and location that we put out I got a lot of feedback From maintainers that they could not meet that and by moving it one week later and shifting the city a little bit to the east We pick up several maintainers so that's the Most optimization that we can do for for this first installment of a maintainer summit and We'll use this as sort of an experiment to figure out What works well and and maybe what could be adjusted for future events that targets Some background Commute Anyway for events that they target more of the development concentration or I just pointed out Because we are going to be considering a project that may be relevant here, but dev con is the same time Yep. Yep. There is a Normal constraint satisfaction problems there's Yep, no, I get it. I'm just just mentioning that Yeah, yeah, that is a downside, but you know looking looking at the the projects that were part of the portfolio at that time It was a reasonable trade-off I Know that will also split Staff as well, so we'll have to work through that, but I think with it being a smaller event We'll hopefully have Less of a burden there as well The vipin asked a question in the chat, which is is this a contributors or a maintainer summit? Yeah, so the the words are I don't know what a great word for this is but we're gonna start with with this focus on maintainers and See where we go from there the Space that we were able to get Will comfortably support about 40 people the maintainers list has about 50 people on it Assuming we get something less than Full participation that'll put us right around that comfortable limit for the space and So, you know like I said this this will be an experiment is the first time we're doing this and we'll see how we can adjust from there Next on the announcement lists It looks like the following week if you didn't get a chance to enjoy cool weather in Minneapolis You can take a trip to Moscow If anybody is on Solana here Yes, so we have a bunch of different stuff up on the wiki for The boot camp Russia We're co-planning it with the team in Russia And so one thing that I would you know suggest people go and check out is the new checklist under planning docs Where we're getting closer and closer to the boot camp in a box Policies that I wanted to create it at the very beginning. So we're getting it where each of those different groups can then Start planning things like badging branding catering equipment event location on site check up sponsorships And then next week we're going to be doing the same sort of thing with marketing So we're taking the boot camps closer and closer to making it where they can be a little bit more standalone so I highly suggest that people go in Check that out to sit there and see how it's it's all getting organized Okay, any questions from anyone on that by the way Solana so Where is this? Because there's nothing at the top level that would suggest that there's something going on there What do you mean? There's nothing at the top level. I'm looking at the hyperledger wiki page And I don't see anything about planning for boot camps and other things It's all under events. There's events and there's boot camps and there's boot camp Russia Um, what I've done previously is when it's getting closer to the thing. I'll Put a little message thing on the top, but I don't have any none of the different things go to the top of the Wiki page, I'm not quite sure what you're asking. Okay I'll tell you what I'm saying. I'm saying that basically There's an awful lot of stuff going on on the wiki that's completely invisible to anybody that's not Camped out on every wiki page is my point Need to do a little bit better job I think of getting even the TSE because I was not aware that there was anything going on there And we need to do a better job of raising awareness of things that we're doing here To try and do planning for whatever That's all I'm asking is that we think about I mean maybe emails or I don't know what but There's an awful lot of stuff that goes on on the wiki and if you're not actually subscribed to every wiki change You're not gonna hear about it. The date was finalized last week. Yeah, that's not my point Okay, I wonder there's maybe some Frustration about the bootcamps in general Is that part of the concern Chris? I Think it's just a question of visibility Yep, are we are we advertising what we're doing is the structure of the is the structure of the wiki and Website advertising what we're doing well Are we are we getting? I mean there's a lot of interesting stuff it's kind of hard for example to find some of the results of the Like the project lifecycle all of the stuff I Think the open the open question that Chris is asking is is there a way that we can publish more visibly The really interesting stuff that we're doing coming up Yeah, I mean one thing I know even Confluence has is like a I've seen it enabled on other wikis It's like a change log. I don't know if that would be Useful here or maybe it'd be too cluttered but maybe that would at least somewhat help address it if you could look back over the past weekend and See what's changed that may already be enabled for all I know All that stuff's enabled I mean on the wiki there's ways to subscribe to changes to all pages changes to specific spaces Yeah Is this just not knowing how the wiki tools work? It's a question of you switch when you switch to Confluence you switch from a push model to a pull model So we have to go pull the information we want now. I mean even like, you know The TSC agenda used to be sent out and mailed beforehand It's not always there and Unless you're subscribed to the page, right? Yeah, and so you have to go through and subscribe to pages But then you have to know there's a new page to go subscribe to well No, no, no you can subscribe to a whole space at a time I mean I get about a hundred emails from Confluence today You can dial up or down kind of your notification preferences, I don't think it's wiki notifications that are gonna solve Chris's concern it's it's You know, I would do we need other other bandwidth channels. I mean we come to the TSC Calls with the stuff that we really want the developer community to know about We also do put things in the monthly newsletter But maybe there's other frequency kinds of updates that are needed to reach the constituency beyond the TSC I mean we kind of Do tell people the TSC mailing list is where you want to come to if you want kind of the best bandwidth feed on the stuff Going on community-wide Are there other is there a desire for other types of notification channels? Yeah, I feel like it's There's always so many Notifications and ways to get notifications Looking more for filtering than than more gallium so What I wonder behind this comment is is we had We had discussions off and on all year about the kind of events that we're doing and the kind of events that we're supporting and I don't think we Maybe we didn't get to a satisfactory conclusion of that to the point that feels like They were on board with or aware of the the full set of events So I think this event didn't come up in discussion I don't know two to four weeks ago something like that. No actually might be more than that They came up when we were first talking about this contributor summit But that was verbal in in one of these meetings I'm pretty sure this bootcamp has been on the agenda of you know, TSC me to calls each week for the last month or two I mean like You know with with us with a very active solicitation very if you're interested get involved Okay Why don't we do this then me? Consider what what you really want to communicate offline and then let's get an agenda topic together around it whether it's Communication events or wiki or or what have you we'll have clear discussion next week So previously the reason I had the agenda is always being on the same page and Having it just be updated every time instead of creating new ones every time Was to actually cut down on those notifications so you could just subscribe to it But then you're asking me to create the new ones and so I was like okay So I created the new forms and then we started creating the new ones in May But that's originally why I just had one Was for that reason is to make that agenda subscription easier For a lot of this it's basically a decision in regards to How do you want that to lay out right it's like if you don't if you dislike the fact that it's Cluttered and you have to go back and look through the versioning then you have to get the notifications. It's just kind of like One way or the other of organizing the information Okay When that was changed it wasn't like it was a big deal to me It was just kind of like okay sure we'll change it, but now you'll have to deal with notifications While the other one you don't have to deal with notifications, so it's kind of like what half doesn't at the other All right. Yeah, so again people if if you've got some thoughts about Communication or whatever it is. Let's get the structure or a structure discussion next week or a week thereafter the The next they've got on the agenda today that hopefully people have been thinking about is We need to get a little bit more active and steering that we do with TSE and We know that we've got a lot of Upcoming project proposals some of those will be discussed next week some of those have already been Been able to disposition those offline But there's the constant question that we have of How many flowers do we want to cultivate in the garden and and what sort of guidelines? Do we want to set our own up front so that it's clear when we when we plant and when we weed? To keep beating a metaphor to death So I'd like to have some of that discussion Right now, and then we've got some more guidelines in mind So we don't need to rehash those when we have individual proposals to go through So with that I want to look forward to TSE members to start Discussing where those guardrails should be Well, I think as a group we need to decide if we want to figure out what convergence means it and head towards that You know, I think we've been doing some of that with transact things like that, but You know, we have all these DLT written in all different languages, so it's Take the best of each and You know come up with something better from you know, I think in this case the sum of the parts is Not greater than the whole it's less than And So, you know if we could go back four years and rearchitect how we did things Would we do it differently and what would that look like? But the charter sort of calls out for a DLT on 26 Other people am I crazy? Yes Alright, but it's in this particular case. Am I crazy? Yeah Okay, and number one We act like DLT is a technology and it solves a whole bunch of different problems and anytime we start coming in and saying we want the same technology that works for a semi centralized Consortium-based thing to be the same thing that we use for a more broadly decentralized set of Providers vendors supporters for it that the technologies are not the same You can't optimize for one and expect the expected to simply pick up and drop down on the other one optimization points are very different so having one technology is Like saying let's pick the one database that we're all going to use it makes no sense So so I think starting from the one DLT side of things is is not helpful I think starting from what are the problems we're trying to solve and do we have gaps that cover it? and saying hey what we really need is one technology that provides well just to You know pick up on the Gardner one. We need one technology provides oracles We need one technology that focuses on providing cryptographic solutions. We need one technology that focuses on Contract execution we need one platform that's targeted at Centralization and we need one platform that's targeted at decentralization. I'm fine with that But I think as a TSC our job becomes identifying what the gaps are and Figuring out whether or not we have technologies that are overlapping excessively or whether they fill gaps Yeah, so so make this is Chris So I think I agree with that But then you also need to have a certain amount of coherence with respect to things like okay So what programming language are we going to be focusing on primarily because right now we have a melange of every programming language under the Sun and Absolutely no architectural coherence amongst the different pieces parts right we have rust we have go we have Python we have Java we have C++ C++ and So how how do you take I mean a piece of function from one? That may be you know distinct and unique and valuable Potentially across them and integrate it when to do so you have to jump through all kinds of ridiculous hoops like doing JNI You know binding which God only knows you know How secure that really is in the context of something like blockchain In order to accomplish it When you have to recompile and re-link everything. Yeah, but this is I mean we've been we've been doing We've been doing API's for a long time. So I Think what I hear you saying Chris is it's not about the language. It's about how do we connect the parts together? Yeah, and and if we need to do it by unifying language Okay, that's fine. I think we can do it by doing a better job with API's But but Mick I'm actually also focusing on not just I mean on the architectural aspect of things But also on just the community aspect of things I mean if you take a look at communities that are successful They tend to have a certain amount of architectural coherence in terms of for instance, what language are they primarily focus on now? Yes, there will be SDKs and all kinds of different flavors, but primarily when you're building, you know the underlying technology there's a consistency of Language because that then tends to attract also a community that has similar skillset Chris I would point you at CNCF They they have they do not have a language consistency. They strive for micro architecture where they're behind well-defined API's that are callable either RESTful or some other RPC mechanism. That's how they drive interop I think having to pick one language to rule them all is I don't know. I don't want to die on that hill I've seen Hart's hand up for a while. Why don't why don't we do this? Some people are trying to raise their hand and other people are jumping in. Let's Just try to keep an eye on who's hand is up and let's let's try to pass the conch shell around if you will so Sure, I think I agree with Mick in general You know, we want to drive we want to push towards convergence, but I don't know how we can force it And a lot of our efforts at Convergence have not been doing so well recently I mean if we look at things that we created to to drive convergence like working groups and other things You know those aren't doing great so So I guess I'm not sure what we can do to to kind of Push things to integrate more Other than sort of try to encourage people to build more component wise projects. I Think it's a difficult problem and that being said You know In the context of projects and project proposals within hyper ledger If we choose not to include a project, it's not going to go away. I I commented on this before So anyway Okay, Jonathan Probably in a similar context actually I think I don't know I don't understand I think that most of these discussions are actually not just technical Like we need to make sure or we need to try to find some business model behind such convergence Like I don't see why two projects Suddenly start collaborating or create an interpublic layer if there's no value in doing that Right and what have before we were talking three years ago We're talking about like probably one framework with a lot of extensions now We have a lot of frameworks and not everything is complete so like like hearts and we are not successful in in making a coherent story and I don't think that everything works. So if I look at the led approach that the EA, right? At least it's a bit more consistent in terms of yeah, there's some wallets, you know, what's the front end? You know was the back end, you know, it's an explorer, etc. Every time Second sorry, I couldn't quite hear you. You said that what approach was working. No, I No, I just said like if you look at the EA Version of the stack so it's very clear Basically what you need to do in every kind of layer of the stack I can share link but But that's because they have kind of one layer one solution, you know, we have many DLT's and We sometimes I don't know if we forget or we just think that somebody else will do it We need to add all the other features to be consistent and coherent, right? So if I have an identity they've had the IDs It's would be nice to have the ideas working with most of the DLT's that we have and most of the frameworks that we have Like just to create a DAD on fabric is very different than the subtleties Very different in your heart, etc. So every time we had another framework We need to think about what do we do with the rest of the tooling? What do we do with the rest of the stack that and we did converge and I just don't see how we can drive that basically to answer To what heart is saying while we are not successful Being being very convergent across different stacks. I think we don't always have the business model behind to drive the convergence That's what it seems to me EA is a spec and it's not a code base. So I appreciate the Allegory, but it may be no, no Yeah, I'm gonna say in that that architecture that spec is consistent because you have one layer one So it's a lot easier for us to build let's say different wallets that work with the same layer one solution I'm not comparing the fabric to the EA spec Talking about the different frameworks that we have this is one framework with multiple tools Okay Nathan you you had your hand up there. Yeah One thing I think we often get in trouble in this discussion on is We're not building a shrink wrapped product. We're building the market of a town square if you will it's a it's a platform for collaboration and You know, it's a really fair trade to have a little bit of product chaos it means we have the best ideas competing and Commingling within our community and within our discussions. So the principles. I think I'm trying to get to here are Do they want to be part of that forum? Do they want to be part of that sharing of ideas? And is it actually a project that has community behind it? We don't want to be a dumping ground for projects that companies weren't successful at so they decided to just Spin it off as open source or hope for some community collaboration What we're after is we're after getting the folks who are thinking the deep more deeply about problems and who are addressing But the market that our community hopes to address in ways that they're additive to that discussion and help all of our Different technical efforts leverage one another and it's okay. If not everything works and it's okay If not everything integrates as long as it's adding to that collective whole But that's a fuzzy thing to measure It means that there will be some projects that overlap, but I think it gets back to mixed point of what is the core mission What's the what is the commute town square about? What what is it that we're all working on in terms of the idea sharing? Yeah, so let me throw out just a hypothetical. It's a little bit smaller of a question and maybe we can iterate on that so I Don't want to talk about gardener specifically, but it it's an interesting It's an interesting component that we don't have right now which is a project that's focused on being an oracle Let's say we had three oracle projects be proposed at the same time Would we pick just one of those would we pick all three of those and why would we want to do one of that? I I really think that is the core question for the TSC and how we shape the future You know convergence is a nice thing, but we have such an emotional investment and a business investment in the technologies We have that it seems unlikely that we're you know, let's converge. Well, okay, which platform we're going to converge on I Think the question is just asked Dan about you know Are are we about this goes back to this sort of thousand flowers versus manicured garden? I think you and I were having this discussion a little bit about Is it is it about having three oracle projects or is it about the TSC? Asserting the guidance through saying we've got one that covers this space and we're only going to have one On and if somebody else comes in with a second project proposal that overlaps that one What is our reaction to that? Is it? May the best oracle win or is it that we want to You know encourage a communication or do we want to focus on community and say okay? Let's merge the communities and figure out how we get our one oracle out of that and then it becomes the TSC's responsibility our strategic Imperative becomes How do we define that space and how do we ensure even if we need to solicit projects to fill in gaps that we find? Yeah, I I mean my perspective is that we can't just take a like whoever's first that becomes the Sort of standard right because of another project comes along and it's got More developers or a bigger community, you know It seems like it would be a poor decision to not include them because they're they're not first But I so I think it's I feel like we're we're gonna have to open open it up to more people, right? But I guess the other question is how do we you know, what are the limited resources, right? So how do we we can't obviously market for a hundred projects and we can't have a hundred updates in the TSC So it seems like we need a way to both sort of be inclusive, but also limit You know what gets exposure? What's good? What gets marketing? What gets attention at the TSC and I don't know if there's a way to have that be a little bit more metric driven or for some other thing that you know some way to sort of Sort out, you know, what gets more attention versus versus less maybe so I agree At least with the first part of what Kelly was saying there I I think it would be a really short-sighted decision for us to select one project and then have a similar project be proposed that might be Demonstratively better, but then say no to it because we'd set some precedent that that the first project in of a certain flavor was the only one that we would accept And that would definitely be a change in direction from what we've done At the same time we have been talking about more components and more convergence all year And it would be a shame to lose some of the benefits that we're just starting to see from that So I wonder if there is a way that We can be encouraging The projects to work together Recognizing that they're only going to do that when when they see mutual advantage to it and at the same time Facilitates new growth in the greenhouse so that we're constantly Taking in the the best ideas But also making sure that that we do vet that those ideas are bringing some some novelty that that isn't already represented And I think the other thing we need to keep in mind throughout all of this Is the quality of the projects our charter calls for enterprise DLT's and blockchain or not just you know, and I think We need to make sure that by the time something gets to active status in version one it is enterprise ready So, you know, I think it gets back to the project lifecycle in that sense of where we place things when they come in But we also don't you know, we need to view Everything as hyperledger brand not just a particular project brand So if we bring bring in something that's not that high equality or something then it Impacts, you know the public perception of all of hyperledger, so we just need to be clear on that I think we discussed it before right do we downgrade a project that actually was promising at the time I don't know maintenance left Priorities changed, you know companies got acquired whatever happened right and then after a year or two Yeah, he doesn't doesn't meet the standard anymore I don't know we can define what's active was not active. I think that's less of a thing But yeah, and mark is right like we need to maintain this and standard and quality to be enterprise grade And we talked about it a few times But I don't see like sometimes we need to make some difficult decisions and to downgrade status All of that and I don't see a lot of that We haven't started doing that, but we just clarified a project life cycle transition It includes, you know moving things to deprecation and then eventually end of life. So I think we are set to do that Sure, let's do it. Yeah. Yeah The other thing I wanted to say is, you know, I think we need to think about Clarifying how the different pieces we have Compared to one another. I mean, you know what I hear a lot from people I give a lot of presentation to meetups and that kind of stuff right then and people come to me and say So I don't know which to use I go to hyperledger and there's tremendous amount of confusion As you know, people go to the hyperledger website most of the time They don't know that hyperledger is really just an organization and there is all these projects underneath So they start from oh, I'm gonna start a project I want to learn how to use hyperledger and then they fall onto this list of things and they're like Oh, what the hell is all of this? Where do I start? And You know, eventually One way or another they find out there are different projects and there is things like fabric and sawtooth and uroa That kind of fits at the same level, but then the question is well, which one should I use for what? We don't really have that documented clearly in any way shape or form And I think it does Play into that, you know the question of well, how do they compare? What are the different categories? What are the different use cases that each of those things claim to address? You know because we talk about have you know, even if we didn't want to have Two things, you know of the same kind so to speak, you know broadly speaking Today we don't even have the categories we we you know, we could rely on to start classifying all the different projects So Chrissie in the past you'd mentioned say the Apache model where there's just a list of projects Do you have any thoughts about if we did go down a more expansive route and we didn't really have to The question of of is there a hyperledger project or the perception rather that that there's a single hyperledger project Do you think that that would be? mitigated maybe you're busy on the typing Sorry, I thought I was unmuted Yeah, so I Mean, you know to a certain degree the Apache model is Enabled by virtue of the fact that Apache doesn't market anything They they just they're they're marketing their process. They're marketing the Apache way They're not marketing Cassandra versus Hadoop versus Spark versus whatever and those things are roughly competing things Right. There's there is certain amount of overlap. They're all sort of data analytics and so forth but they're different approaches that some evolved out of another and sort of better ways of doing things but Nobody at in the Apache leadership Nobody in the Apache community other than the projects themselves goes around necessarily Trying to sort of make a case for why all those things are there their cases We have the Apache way. It is very useful in starting to help Projects go through the incubation process get accustomed to the Apache way and once they've gotten that they graduate and they get benefit from a very diverse community contributors that are you know, hundred percent behind open source yada yada yada Brian. This is very well But Apache itself doesn't market anything other than Apache and And for the sole purpose of saying we we're a place where you can come and you can do innovation and you can You know, you can join us in that in that endeavor But they're not marketing Hadoop versus Cassandra versus Spark versus, you know And maybe that's what has to happen except that and and just let the projects do their own Sort of marketing the way that it goes on in Apache. I mean At the end of the day that the challenge is Hyperledger trying to sort of make a case for itself And so yeah, if it wants to be just a place that has the hyper ledger way You know that somehow rather distinct Then I think we're gonna continue to have some problems because you know, you're gonna have You know anytime you bring in a project that's its own thing Fully formed. It's maybe even used in a you know, production context being sold by a vendor or two There's all kinds of inertia behind that that's essentially working against any potential that we might want to pursue Towards convergence because everybody's got deadlines to make and priorities that sort of trump the sort of doing the right thing right because they're all Trying to make a buck right that's what they're about and that there's nothing wrong with that But that's you know, the reality is I think you need to sort of factor in the reality and try and figure out How do we make an effective community around something where we're not necessarily trying to create Circumstance that's running at counter purposes to what people are trying to do anyway right Yeah, and so one of the last comments I see flying across chat there is Kelly coming on whether we're solving a marketing problem here and I think it'd be good to continue this conversation focusing More on the architectural coherence aspect of it So I don't want to consume the entirety of our of our meeting today going through this but Some some thoughts for next time or for continuing over the mail list are you know, how can we have Not just more tightly scoped projects like oracles But you know the silos that we already have or the frameworks I should say that we already have how do we how do we help them be less siloed and more? Have had more coherence across the entire I think you had a Freudian sloop there That's sort of what we're you know struggling with right? Yeah, and this is Leonard. I just wanted to say you know There are benefits in our drive to convergence and standardization. These are long-term benefits So by looking at someone brought up the idea of looking at gaps and major pain points Around oracles and interoperability for example We can start at that level because that's where all the projects will benefit the drive to standardization and Looking at these low-hanging foods because they it's obvious that we look at interoperability and solve these pain points And drive towards more standardization. So yeah, it's a good thing long-term Thanks Okay, well with that let's let's move along. I'm actually going to jump down in the agenda to make sure that we have enough time for quilt quilt has gone through a Sort of a different journey, I guess in the last 12 months, and we haven't heard a lot from that project, but I've read through the report. I hope others have it looks like we might be at a point where that that direction is coming back around to something More active and So it looks like not everybody has necessarily had a chance to read through the the quilt update But I asked David to come here today and help present the project So David, would you like to give the the committee an update on where things stand with? Probably an emphasis and talking about what's changed in in the last several weeks for you Yeah Sure thing happy to be here. Thanks for inviting me. I'm David fueling. I work at Ripple and I've been a long time contributor on quilt I think just coming up in about two years and quilts kind of It's I gone up and down in terms of my ability and Adrienne Hope Bailey was another guy that Worked with me on quilt over these past couple years I think what's changed in the last few weeks is Ripple is increasing its investment in interledger more broadly And in particular that includes allocating more resources to interledger Java and I'd like to do a lot of that work inside of the quilt project and so I Think We are Adrian and I supported the reboot We're happy to do that, but our main focus specifically my focus is around interledger. So I think I Suppose if I had to sort of speak broadly about what's changed it sounds like the reboot is Not happening in terms of like broadening the scope of quilt And I think that is also fine with me and if if the if the project's gonna be more narrow Which it is then I'm happy to kind of take the leadership brains and Maintain it and then and do reports and kind of everything required of a healthy project So I think those two kind of things like sort of narrowing of or getting clarity on like sort of what's the scope of quilt has changed and then also We have some more resources to dedicate to quilt so All that sort of has context I sort of I know Q3 isn't finished yet, but I kind of wanted to give the TSC a View of sort of what we're planning for Q3 and Happy to answer any specific questions or or other contextual questions as well Yeah, thanks for putting the report together that it's one of the things that we do to help keep the steering committee and the projects connected and It also leads to more inner project discussions The The the level of activity that we'd seen on quilts of course was was kind of dropping down So it's it's nice to see that it's picking back up again I see that Brian you wanted to jump in here Sorry finding a mute as well. Yeah, just to reinforce what David said. I mean at one point We've thought about making quilt kind of an umbrella project for a couple of different Inoperability projects that that seem to have some cohesion or some desire to kind of integrate between them I feedback from the TSC seem to be against that kind of umbrella thematic kind of thing which makes sense. So I You know the quilt reboot stuff don't don't look to that is as you know holding this up or complicating this Really really glad to hear that Ripple looks at is looking at investing more Into this and really hope that other projects look at finding a way to link in with quilt And I think having that scope clear Is important even as we're talking about some of the marketing aspects of hyperlature in the last discussion that We should probably be setting the right expectations for Users and contributors that are coming to quilt that quilt is one interoperability project that we have it is focused on ILP and I think Chris had mentioned elsewhere that we don't want to overstate it as as a panacea of Something that that provides more than it's actually intended to do and I think that'll actually help it be more successful as As something that where people understand where they're coming in and contributing what the goals of that contribution are If questions or comments from anyone else on the steering committee One this is stylish one question about IOP. Are there any revisions the protocol coming down the pipes? Is there stuff that you have to change coming up or is it basically a finalized protocol? Yeah, great question the core protocol What we call ILP v4 is Very solid and no changes coming there. So at the core, it's pretty baked the higher level ILP's loosely mirrors kind of the internet stack. So there are higher level of protocols built on top of ILP that are defined by the interledger community and Many of those are also baked, but there are there are various ways for example I Currently the the payment the higher level payment protocol relies on my Shared secrets between senders and receivers as one example and there are other ways to sort of secure a communications channel. So I expect It'll be less changes to the protocol and maybe if anything new ways of doing higher level protocols if that makes sense That does yeah, thanks Okay, great, and then you would had some some questions in there that I'll let people respond to maybe over the comment mechanism in in the wiki but One thing to point out is there's a community architects channel and mail list that you can also reach out to and you're not sure about different maintainer responsibilities And I would hope that all of the projects all of the maintainers of all the projects are subscribed to the technical steering committee mail list like we discussed earlier in the meeting that's or at least our main conduit for Decisional things and and other important announcements Yeah, it was really helpful and and thanks for all the feedback in email and on the wiki I think I'm now subscribed to the right lists and kind of monitoring the right wiki pages So I feel pretty confident but also I guess one plug like it was helpful to sort of get a ping Into the quilt mailing list as a reminder or sometimes they're just like you guys we're discussing earlier pages. I'm not subscribed to so I guess if anyone ever feels like Something's missing from the maintainer side of quilt Please pay me because probably just I've missed something Yeah, it's hard to know what you're not subscribed to if you're not subscribed to it And then I'll just point out again What we kicked off the meeting with that there is a maintainer summit that we just hosted for Minneapolis in October and if we could see you there that great So then if I may I have one more question on the protocol side, I know that you know the the group behind it that challenges finding a home for the spec to actually standardize it and Adrienne mentioned, you know, the different attempts that would be made over the years and I just wonder if you ever found a home or Is it still basically handled by a community group at W3C? I think is where it's happening Yeah, so I guess there there are and there are several areas of standardization one it falls under the W3C Specifically like web monetization and web payments, so there's some standardization going on there but the core protocol and I would say everything that's not related to web payments and web monetization is Happening at interletcher.org so at this point we're kind of our own standards body and I think probably as the higher level protocols mature will either you know grow that organization or we'll look for another organization to kind of Move these protocols into but that's I guess TBD at this point Okay, thanks. Okay. Great. Well, thanks again for coming David and giving the update All right jumping back in the agenda We have the you know what Why don't we go ahead and Is there somebody on from from cello to handle that update? Yeah, yeah, I'm Rook Hi everyone One of the children and then I'm going to do the grocery report today Can't start no Yeah, and and we've been trying to just use this this time on the meeting to highlight issues or Big things that you want to point out and leave the bulk of the update for people to have read offline Yeah, yeah, okay, so So so let's start from the project housing Okay Things community is aiming to make sure to be more productive production radio And now questions Causes on the architecture and the futures not going to rap but not going to rush the final out Therefore, there are about 50 Commits were active to the master branch since last Coded report We also have a weekly meeting at Friday night of Beijing time often seen more than 10 participants Things meeting and since their meeting ran over the pre-located 30 minutes many times we have decided to prolong the meeting from 30 minutes to an hour to an hour and Thanks all for the point of healthy and X for the one bomb zero release as I said before we are Per Perd prudent prudent on it and will not rush it out So the overall activities in the past quarter that X floral as well as you can continue with Manufactured addition. We also decided and implemented a new dashboard and right now the dashboard and create an agent and And and and an agent is some kind for resource pool in the chair of project We can create an agent through the dashboard We also have a talent in 10 intent drawn it to the chair of community His name is in my neck and from India. She's walking with tone. Tony is a mother maintainer of the chair of projects She's my next walking with tone on the fabric operator, which can be used to deploy the fabric and Kubernetes in fact flexible we also talk with the Asteria proposal submitter to bring the proposal idea into Cheryl we will have a demo from the Submitter tomorrow night at the weekly meeting and then we will see how Corporations happens between just teacher and chair and And X for the killing plans there are walks like unify all users in the face panels Organize they organize the manager fabric network dynamically and adapt the internal operation working group channel Explain the methods and seeking the cooperation with just teachers Some of walks already ongoing and mothers are still under planning So And that's all of my updates And then when that family questions So one comment looking through this it's great that you're on track towards a major release Yeah, in the process of you know, one of the one of the topics that we actually didn't get a chance to discuss today is The criteria for first major release I Think things that are Clear even if we haven't finalized them yet though or that we want to make sure that each project has completed the CII best practices That's one of the quality and security requirements that Will be important for establishing consistent quality across hyper ledger projects. Yeah, that's sure So if you're not already familiar with that you can Feel free to ask questions on the TSE list or the community architects list or channels a inch Yeah, and we can point you to the relevance requirements Yeah, okay, I would do that Any other questions Okay, well, thanks for making time to join us at the meeting today and keeping us updated on cellos progress All right mark. Do you think we have enough time to go through the pswg update here? Looks like we've got about half of us having had a chance to go through it Sure, it's performance. I can talk really quick and we'll get right through it. No problem Great So it's been a slow quarter given travel and things and in summer months Couple of the morning personally, I think the more interesting things we've done is we've brought in You know, we had someone come talk to us about fast-fabric work This past week we had someone come talk to us about accelerator. That was one of the presentations in Tokyo So, you know, there's lots of work going on out there and in the general community on Improving performance of DLT's and it's good to see, you know, some of it coming back through and getting it at least on our radar and how it works The other main direction, you know, Vippin's written a great paper on Providence and had some help from some of the supply chain folks I'm not sure if they were in the six or in grid But we're trying to work with both and, you know, tap their expertise I'm not a supply chain expert You know, Vippin has a lot more experience with it, but The more, you know, we can work across hyperledger the better And so, you know, trying to come up with our HarnX paper, which would define terms for supply chain In relationship to blockchain and DLT's as far as transactions, things like that You know, what does it mean for this? And then we can work with a caliber people to get that in As a standard test And hopefully, you know, that will go smoothly And the final main thing we're looking at right now is Nick from IBM has done some work where, you know, he does tests on how, you know, looking for bottlenecks in fabric, basically Using caliber, he's one of the caliber developers, too I believe he might be a maintainer, I'm not sure but How we, you know, it goes through like CPU utilization, memory utilization, network utilization, things like that for different aspects So it's not publishing You know, here's the best TPS we can get out of fabric, but it's more an analysis and Chris might be able to You know, give more on that if we want it But we're looking at how we can sort of start integrating Confluence with maybe caliber output or something like that so things can get moved over easily It wouldn't be every time you ran it, it got done But if there was a way to move things, you know, test results from caliber and some of this Into the confluence, you know, I think one of the Parts of their when we form the group the charter was, you know, we want to be able to go through and Say this is the performance you get from this in this workload And that's why we're trying to define the standard workloads to level the playing field But it gives us a chance to make sure the definitions are there and you know, put this claimers on that your mileage will vary and You know, this was a smaller than expected production environment or something like that So the goals, you know to make sure we can Have some governance, if you will, on how results are published through hyper ledger Okay, great. Thanks. We've got about one minute left. Does anybody have a burning question for Mark? Okay, it's like you are off the hook mark. Thanks for getting that update in there We will look forward to meet it again next week where we will have a few Project proposals to disposition and discuss. Thanks for your time everybody and we'll talk again next week