 So we've got, yeah, reviewing improving the minutes that Michael sent around. And then we've got a bunch of like kind of random stuff to wrap up for the year. So we've got all the charge stuff, the reviewing, the existing charge, the strategic plan, the budget. And then a couple of initiatives that have been sent our way by the end of the year. And then also, I know Jeremy, you had sent something for other business that I wanted to make sure we save a moment for, because I didn't know the rules around that. No, the job description, but not you. Yeah, okay, sorry. There was some job description. I was like, can we share this? Can we just share it? Yeah, that's not for the committee. That's just individual, individual requests. Yeah. But thanks. Sorry, sorry, sorry. Great. Yeah, because I was like, I don't know how that stands. So, um, well, great. And so then Michael shared the minutes from last meeting. If we want to review those real quick, and if anyone wants to make a motion. Well, if everyone's read already, I'll make a motion to approve the minutes. It makes a motion to approve the minutes. All second. You know, second. Who did? Who's that? Who's second? Shayna, sorry. Okay. All in favor. Aye. Aye. Yes. Awesome. Okay. Thanks all. I have a committee charge. I think this is really what we had, you know, spent a lot of time last time talking about of like reviewing the, um, existing charge. And then Lorna and I met very briefly to figure out, you know, like, is this, do we want to make changes for next year? And I think basically what we came up with was like, yes, we are being asked to take on additional projects outside of the committee charge, but that those are, we're asked to take on additional projects, but those are not within the scope of the charge. And that actually, um, that the charge is, does seem to be really in line with kind of what we had talked about on the last call of wanting to kind of have these different kind of focus areas of, you know, of being responsive to the city council, being able to provide assistance and, you know, advise the city council and other like existing projects and committees of wanting to kind of continue doing that outreach to specific communities and then kind of partnering with other, other, those like kind of partnering with other groups could be the way to create a list of trainers on like DEI trainers to be able to support folks getting training that they're asking for. Um, and I pulled that together into that, this like draft strategic plan for 2023 that I linked in a Google spreadsheet that was locked. And I'm going to open it up right now for the interim of this call. Um, and so I think someone has it open already. If you can refresh, then you should be able to just edit it directly. But of, um, I, yeah, so I think maybe like, first of all, just like opening it up as like, what are like, how's this landing with folks knowing that last time we talked, we're like, oh, hey, we're going to be editing the charter. And now it's like, actually, maybe not. Maybe this is, this seems good. Um, and instead it's more about like kind of setting more strategic priorities and, and, um, like making a strategic plan and more specific goals rather than changing the charter. And by charter, I mean charge. I don't really know what the difference is. Um, I think I know what we're looking at is, um, it would help actually when we do things like this to put dates on, on documents, we know which one is current and which one is left over from some other place or time. Um, but, um, does this have the three bullet points specifically it was charged with identifying and nurturing potential projects? That's it. Okay. And to say, Michael too, that this, this is the same charter that we've had from the beginning. So this is, um, this, you know, this was the, the Google Docs from Julia K feds from when we kind of initially did it, but that, you know, I was going to be making edits to propose some edits. And then in reviewing it over really closely to figure out what those edits would be, didn't have any edits to make. So that's why it is, it is the same, but same, but different. It's not different. It's the same, just re reintroduced. Okay. So I would like to just, um, discuss the next to last one, which currently reads current conducting retreats as a, as a committee. Um, I'm not sure if that means that we, we would conduct retreats with other people or is it, are we talking about our own internal conversations? Because, um, because we haven't conducted any retreats and, um, I'm not one who is going to call for one because I don't really like them, but, but, um, I, I wouldn't, I wasn't sure if this was internal or X, you know, um, external. I mean, my memory was like, I mean, we have done retreats before this committee, um, and it was internal. It was more like, I think we, in previous years had viewed that as like ongoing learning for committee members and opportunities to kind of dive a little deeper and, um, old relationships and stuff. I don't think we have to do every single bullet point every single year in a charge. I think that would just be some, the kind of thing we might do if we want it, if we thought it was valuable. I don't, I mean, I, I don't think it would be a big deal to delete it. I think we could do one without it being in it. If some future iteration of this group wanted to, I don't think it needs to be explicit, but I don't feel like it mandates us to hold retreats either just because it's something we can do. So I sort of misunderstood that and I, I, I thought it was, and I was going to propose, um, some change in the language, but, um, if, if we are indeed thinking that within the scope of our responsibility or our duties or self-inflicted wounds, whatever, um, to try to get other people to come, the only one I can think of was the meeting that we had with, um, this, this, the city chair, uh, committee chairs. I don't recall any other retreat. I mean, we've had, we've had, we've devoted, you know, a whole meeting to educating ourselves on one or another topic. I didn't think of those as retreats. I just thought of those as, you know, part of our business, but I, it's, it's not a big deal, but I think if we are talking about, you know, doing this in some ways for others, then it, it belongs here. Yeah. I didn't even think of the, the committee and committees meetings as retreats, but I think, I was thinking more of like pre-pandemic days of when we'd meet up in Julia's house and eat bagels. So that was bringing up any memories. Okay. Anyway, do you feel okay with leaving it in, Michael, or do you want to? Well, you know, I guess, I'm okay with leaving it in. And then we're not like saying we must do three retreats a year. I'd resign from the committee right away. Yeah. Hi, Carol. And we're just reviewing the C. Jack charge, kind of in line with the strategic plan, but I guess, yeah, it's like, sorry, I'm just going to say, sorry, I was late. I just got into, in traffic on the way over. Oh, no, I'm sorry. My internet stops working, although it appears to be working now. So let's see if this works again. But yeah, and so does anyone have any other edits or additions or yeah, anything to say about the charge? I mean, I think, you know, I haven't looked at this in a while, but looking at the charge now, I think it's right. It describes, I think, what we want to be doing. For me, the questions that came up last week were more about, I guess, tactics alignment with the council and the city so that we can be useful in advancing the charge. Should we pull up the plan, the strategic plan, and see if there's pieces in there? I mean, it's, yeah, pretty, pretty broad, but yeah, if there is that tactical alignment. So I think what you're talking about, Jeremy, is mostly on that first section of identifying and nurturing potential projects, policies, and opportunities that address the systemic oppression and work towards greater equity within the city. Research and report. And then as part of that, present to council charge. Committee members, present to council charge and expertise. I don't know what I'm trying to say there. Present to council offer support on research and equity loans as needed. Meet with new council members one-to-one to support that. Do research and support as requested. And then check in with existing council priorities. So right now, looking at this, like, housing and homelessness and the Elk's Lodge. And yeah, just, I think, putting in this, like, knowing we're going to have a bunch of new city council members, kind of putting in some specific line items in for that. I guess, Jeremy, you're like a, you know, strategic planning expert, and I just, like, fricking... Oh, I'm not an expert. Pull this up. Yeah, if there is any. Yeah, not if there is. Like, please, by all means, like, I guess maybe first of all, it's like, is this in line with what people are thinking? You know, this, yeah, what I think was like the meat of what we were talking about is like, we're not being asked by city council to do specific research for a while, like for like six months now over that. And so instead of like changing our charter, just like being more specific with the outreach to the city council, doing one-to-ones with other, you know, new city council members and be like, here's what we can do. Let us know. And if there isn't anything right now, that's fine. Yeah, I like actually to that point, I like that tactic around individual outreach to council members. That feels new and really useful because I don't, other than Lauren, I mean, we really haven't interacted directly with any other counselors. Don't we have another counselor on the committee? We do. I don't know Jennifer and I, I mean, I don't, I haven't seen her. She hasn't, she hasn't been to a lot of meetings, but she is, she is council and she's a member. Yeah, I've had the impression this time doesn't work great with her schedule. Maybe we have two of just like individual members of the committee go out and meet with them when works for them. Yeah, it's like being more intentional about it. Yeah. Giving it up. I don't know because this is the biggest one. Does that, does that, yeah, does anyone have any concern? Does that feel like that's meeting the need that we identified last month or last meeting? And the Google doc should be, you know, it's editable while we're all together. So I don't know actually what I'm looking at at this point. Where is that in the, in the document that about into Here, Michael, I'll send you the link in the chat. That might be easier to get to. Okay. It's a spreadsheet that Shayna made. Oh, I remember seeing that at some point. Yeah. Okay. I'm going to be here then. Yeah. Right. No, I see it. Thank you. Yeah, I think this looks really good, Shayna. And I, I think the meeting individually with counselors, I mean, both the returning and new ones, like, I think just, uh, I will re-engage people and how this committee could be better supporting the council and the city's work. I mean, there's like, I feel like every meeting, there's questions like, so for example, you know, this idea of a local options tax came up and some of the conversation was like, you know, A, we have a lot of like needs and services we want to provide. And there's very few ways a city can raise money in Vermont. And sales taxes are the most progressive forms of taxes. So there's equity issues with that. Like, and it's not totally clear cut to me, but like, there wasn't like a, oh, we should ask Steve Jack for some input. How should we think about it from an equity perspective? Like, do the services we could offer outweigh the, who pays it? What's exempt from the sales tax? Like, there's some basic analysis of like, we already have a local options on meals and alcohol and rooms, meals and alcohol. And this would extend just the general sales tax. If I'm understanding, okay. The Kelly's nodding. So the same like exemptions and stuff that, that the state sales tax, it would just apply to everything that the sales tax applies to within the city. It'll be a 1% additional sales tax. Yeah. So in addition to the rooms, meals and alcohol tax. So this would go on the ballot potentially in March that we'll be deciding what to put on the ballot. And I think it's been put out before and has not passed. Well, yes, with the one that we have now was first proposed when Nancy, my wife Nancy was on the board. And it was defeated and she was defeated as a result because she supported it. And then a few years later, it was passed. And it was really, the opposition was really not very candid about it because they kept, they did not say it was restricted to meals, alcohol and rooms. They just said it was looked at as another tax. Yeah. And it was only, I guess, two years later, it was passed. So I think if you're going to do it, it's really important. I mean, the message is if it's really important, explain it carefully how it's going to work. And if there are exemptions to make sure that people understand that so that they're not, paying a tax on something that is tax free otherwise. Yeah. But I think to your point, Lauren, there's a higher level of analysis there about the nature of such taxes, who they impact perhaps disproportionately. And it does feel like an equity issue that we could be involved with or maybe retrospectively could be involved with. Yeah. I mean, the conversation just started. So I mean, it could be the kind of thing even like, and I don't know that we want to wait into this, but for example, it could be the conversation is going to happen over the next month, essentially, of whether it will go on the ballot. And then it would be out in the public sphere and some information from CJAC on the potential benefits and or potential concerns, depending on what what the analysis showed. I mean, I think there are pros and cons to it. Like, yeah, but personally, but, but yeah, but almost every meeting, there's like something that we could engage with. I'm sure I'm sure every meeting, there's equity implications of everything, obviously. Yeah. I mean, I think Shayna just, I think this is really helpful. It's clear. My questions for us are more about priority and capacity because we are such a small committee. We have limited capacity to work on these kinds of things. So can we create a structure that allows us to have maximum impact with limited resources? So some of these, I'm just looking at thinking about the tactics now. Some of these are feel more important than others and we should prioritize them. So for me, that would be the next step in the conversation. If we like these tactics, where do we want to focus our energy and put some kind of sequencing to things perhaps? Do you have a proposal? Can I, can I just chime in here and say that, you know, with regard to like doing community forums also under our grant, we are required to conduct two community forums each year. So in terms of capacity of this group, that's something that I need to be working on anyway. So, you know, this is where I think, you know, doing this in partnership, if it's something that this committee supports and we can work in collaboration to do that, you know, based on what you want to focus on, if it's connected to restorative justice in some way, which to me is really broad, right? Like it's how we live in community together and how we interact with each other and resolve our problems. So I think it's really connected. So when I guess what I'm offering is that I have some energy around that, you know, as part of this team, if that's the way we want to go. And I also just sent an email just to, because I missed the whole, the beginning with the minutes piece is, it's $5,000, not 15,000. Oh, okay. Good. Thank you. That we have available. And I'm really excited about figuring out how to use that money. And it could include one of my colleagues is using it to do strategic planning, to, you know, review their strategic plan. And that's something that I'm really interested in doing. I just need to find someone who wants to work with us on our and develop a five year strategic plan for the Justice Center. You know, so, but with that hat on is thinking about DEI and, you know, how can we work together and what's the work that we are, that I am already doing that's going to benefit the committee. So outsource it a little bit. Almost. Yeah. Okay. Sorry. Go ahead. I just think my phone is deleted. I think that sounds like a great opportunity to kind of have some overlap with the kind of outreach you want to do and how it can inform the work that we're doing. Put that into the plan or, yeah, other ways to like prioritize, we like, deprioritize, outsource, you know, delegate some of these different pieces. I mean, I wonder, I mean, the way you have it structured, I like the like quarterly to me that that seems like a simple way to identify like what our priorities are each quarter. So we take some of the tactics and then, like, so I don't know, Carol, if you've got like an idea of timing of when those might be, like maybe we put that into that quarter to be clear, you know, partner with community justice center on forums. Yeah, what this might make sense. Yeah, at this point, because I don't have a solid plan, I would say, you know, it really needs to probably be in the, I mean, clearly in the third and fourth quarters. So, but in terms of planning, and if, and if we're going to connect with somebody to facilitate, then I would say in the fourth quarter and hopefully early on in the fourth quarter. So, you know, that's, that would be most appropriate. So maybe in like quarter three, plan four, quarter four hold forums. Yeah. Yeah. And I'm thinking too that, you know, of offering, you know, basically the same event in two different, two different ways or two different times and, you know, to be able to capture as many people as possible. So, yeah. I just moved some of those things around. Jeremy, do you have other thoughts on like prioritization here? Thanks for whoever's adding this in, of partnering with community justice center. Well, you know, what we could go kind of one by one through these tactics, and kind of, I don't know if it's voting necessarily, but getting some kind of sense of our energy. There are some things that may be time specific that we want to use as forcing function. So, for example, like one that that we've talked about already, but, you know, meeting orienting new council members, existing council members to what we're trying to do in the committee, that feels to me like a priority that we would want to, I think, get started on, you know, next year as the new year begins. Although we won't have our new city council members until March, March, right? Yeah. But with our, the folks we know are going to be around, we'll get started. I guess we'll be getting a new mayor in March, too. Yeah. That's right. Okay. So that's, that's going to be an important time of transition. So I can imagine there's some planning work, how we want to kind of engage that prior to, you know, March, April. That makes sense to me. And one thing that when Shane and I were talking about this a little bit, to prep for this meeting, we had talked about, so like this year for the council's broader strategic planning for, for the city, we had basically done like a two-year process last year. So this year was just kind of like, does this still make sense? And we didn't do a really robust strategic planning process. But my understanding and Kelly or Carol correct me if I'm misunderstanding, but that the plan is for this coming year that there will be a much more robust kind of like start from scratch. There's going to be a lot of new people. And so a more robust planning process, strategic planning process. So just, I think there's opportunity for this committee to, you know, and I think laying some of this groundwork early with each of the counselors and like, you know, how are, how are we better embedding equity principles throughout the strategic plan? And like really bringing that lens and then looking for the opportunities for where this committee could make the most impact in where, you know, where the new council's priorities land, which I mean, I don't think it's going to be radically different. It's like housing and, you know, it's like, I think a lot of the same things will end up on it. But I, you know, how, how do we like help shape that conversation and look for the opportunities for us to make as much impact as we can. So it's going to be like a more robust process that I think we could have more of a role in potentially. What's the timeline for that for the strategic plan? We now do it in October. Is that still going to be the plan Kelly? Oh, okay. Yeah. So we try to get the strategic plan synced up with the budget so we can get it kind of in alignment so that any of the investments that are in the budget can sort of invest in the strategic plan and making sure that we know what the priorities are going into budget season. So yeah, that'll definitely be still the timeline. But you do that as a whole council, right? Not as individuals. Right. And so are you saying, Lauren, that C. Jack should participate at some point in the, in that whole, in that council meeting when they're all, all together or, or do you store, are we still thinking we should do it one by one? I mean, I think the one on one work early makes sense. And that's like laying groundwork. And then I think looking for if there's, you know, more like participating, attending those meetings and like looking for opportunities. And, you know, and it's after at least every counselor is maybe more familiar with what our charges and, you know, how we could be more of a resource for the city. So to me, it would be both, like do the individual work and then participate a little more actively in the strategic planning process, even if it's just attending and like providing input as we develop it or, or looking for opportunities and what gets decided on for where it might make sense for C. Jack to focus once that plan is adopted. In the interest of time, can I move us to the public engagement piece here? Is that? Yeah. And so this is, yeah, a real question for me, because I'm like advertising stipends, growing committee membership has been on our plan for like every year and it's never actually been a priority. And is that okay? What do people think? Yeah, I feel like we've been like, okay, we're not going to work on growing our committee until we have the stipends. And now we have the stipends and we're like, well, here we are. And just really quick to the stipend point, I just pull a few sort of details together just for the committee. Thank you. That'd be great. No problem. So in FY 23, we budgeted $30,000. We have six people currently signed up and we've spent year to date about 1400 bucks. So it's getting used. And I do feel like we are gaining momentum in terms of people are, you know, asking about it. We have a really good internal process, I guess. Yeah, I'm proud of that because, you know, it runs through finance. But, you know, I think that people are using it. We are really trying hard to make sure that we are getting payments out. Initially, there was a little bit of a sort of lag in terms of just getting everything set up and getting it operationalized. But now that we're set up, I feel like we're able to issue payments on a monthly basement. It's not a regular schedule for folks just to make sure that people who are participating in need the resources to be able to, you know, fund childcare or, you know, some other sort of item to get them to the meeting. Then I think it's great. So that's where we're at right now. I can say in the 24 budget, we did knock it down a little bit. So there's 20,000 just based on the usage so far. It didn't make sense that we would keep the full amount. We wanted to make sure this there's still plenty of money there. Should we really get, you know, people really coming to use the program? But anyway, how much for FY24? 20,000 is currently in the budget. And so, I mean, I think it's an important program. And I think that it's through the work of this committee and just making sure that it stays. But, you know, ultimately, it's up to council as they deliberate on the budget process. So it's in their hands. Can I ask something, Kelly? Do these people are new people? They are using stipend or they are like current members of committee? Because one of our aim was like to recruit more people, right? Yeah. So they're most of the members, and I think all of the six that I've got logged right now in the system are, and there are a few more that are trickling in, but most of the membership is, you know, the current membership, not new membership. However, I don't have those data points, and I don't know if we want to maybe start to capture them as you see the forum or something. I think that this, you know, having a couple of forums coming up is a great opportunity to, if we're talking about, and when I was doing substance use prevention work, we would actually hire a person to be at the meetings, have a separate space and one or two people that just do childcare there. So I see this as an opportunity to expand the program by, you know, our outreach to the people in the marginalized communities that we want to attract, not only to this committee, but to every other committee for the city, you know, we can really push that program and say, and, you know, here we're offering this, you know, this, and we went when we would give people a $50 stipend just to show up to a forum, they would get $50 in cash just to show up and participate in the forum. So I wouldn't be opposed to doing that without a thousand dollars. But also this is a way to really move this program forward, I think, because that's who we want to see, joining committees, right, as the people who are underrepresented already. So I think those two things go hand in hand, which excites me to do, you know, really to get on the planning piece early on in quarter three so that we can, you know, get forums in place, potentially even by the end of quarter three. One piece of feedback I've gotten a couple times lately are people who think our current application form for committees is really a little cumbersome and just really seems to like make you feel when you open it like you need a lot of really relevant experience you need. I mean, like most people we get applying have like master's degrees in like whatever committee expertise, like it's ridiculous. And like so it seems kind of intimidating and dissuading people. So I mean, I might wonder, like paired with a stipend program, if we might want to look at that and see if there's a way to like simplify and really emphasize that like lived experience is just as valuable as educational background or whatever. Because I've just gotten that feedback a few times lately. So it might be also discouraging people that were otherwise interested. That's a great point. That feels very important to me thinking back whenever, when I applied so long ago. Yeah, I could that makes a lot of sense. So we may be sending two different messages through this stipend program versus the application itself. Right. Like is there at all a proposal of updating the committee application process to be more streamlined and accessible? I'm curious, Kelly, like is that relatively easy to do or is that somehow a complicated thing? I don't, I mean, I don't think it's super complicated. I do love a good form. I will say that and I think that, you know, going into sort of looking at forms and looking at what we're trying to do, I think that's a really good conversation because it may seem, you know, on the surface pretty like straight ahead. But then, you know, when you start to really look at how you're asking the question and how, you know, you're, you know, gathering information and, you know, what, you know, is really in that form. I mean, it makes a huge difference in the response that you get. So, you know, I, I don't know that I would say that it'll be simple because I don't know. I mean, I think we would need to kind of evaluate it. I think, you know, I could totally support that. I think it's a good idea. We are currently just generally for committees at large as we trend into the new year. We're going to take a look at it sort of everything. So we could certainly add this to the list of things because I think that it's important. And then I think, you know, making sure that, you know, we do look at the form and make sure that it, you know, we are sort of lowering sort of any barrier that's there to getting people in the door. But there's a, sorry, there's a very thin line here because are we trying to target like the number of people, right? Are we trying to attract like as many people possible? Or we are really trying to attract people who could benefit committees. So we should be careful. I think if we do something very general, maybe lots of people will apply, but how many will stay or will be really beneficial to committees like helping? Maybe we can create two forms, right? One of them will be kind of accessible, general. Then when people get accepted to the committees, we can ask them, we can send another form and ask detailed information so we can understand if they have enough experience. I'm not talking about education, but experience and ideas to help committees. I mean, I think that's the whole point of wanting to know how to be accessible. Go ahead, Michael. Yeah. I'm a little cautious about that because I've done at least two committees where I went in not having any experience. I was on the plant development review board. And when I got on that board, I had not even read the zoning laws, which, you know, took me months really to just figure out which end was up. So I have to be, I think we have to be really careful about the second form, discouraging people who have already put forward their interest in participating. I think we can encourage a learning process and maybe discuss that with chairs of committees about how to orient new members so that they feel welcome and they don't have to sit there for six months trying to figure out what they're doing. Well, it seems like an initial conversation to, you know, to have someone, even whilst if somebody expresses an interest when they're filling out their application, that somebody sits with them and says, you know, this is what it looks like, you know, the reality of it, I think is, and I think that having those one-on-one conversations is where you're going to get the people who are maybe a little reluctant but have the experience to show up, feel more comfortable. I also think, I just want to name this too, is that, you know, I think each of us needs to sit with our discomfort of having to do that education piece and to connect with somebody who's not like us and who doesn't have this experience that we have, you know, either sitting on a committee already or working for the city or whatever it is, that's a piece of the learning curve that I think we just need to acknowledge too. I think that's an interesting process, improvement idea where maybe the application is more general, like we were discussing, but it triggers kind of an automatic conversation with the committee's chair. That's kind of like just an information, kind of learning session, like, okay, let me tell you more about the committee. Here's what we think we need. Do you have any questions? I mean, so I think that makes a lot of sense, Carol. I mean, this is what we do when we have volunteers who express interest. The first thing that I do is I schedule a time for them to meet either in person or on Zoom, and I explain what the volunteer opportunities are, and then I'm asking a lot of questions about their interests and their background, and not everybody is appropriate, right? And so just by having that conversation, we get information about each other, and we're looking, you know, finding the right fit, but also helping people really feel prepared for what they are endeavoring to do. And Citi has its YouTube channel now. I already subscribed. So maybe each committee chair can record, like, a very short video about what we do. I don't know, something like that, like committee series or something, and people also watch this. We can put the link all the way, like, down to the form. So when they apply, they can also watch this. I don't know, just an idea. It's a great idea. We are definitely trying to expand the use of that platform. I do think I've been very happy with the sort of results that we've been getting in terms of just the budget videos. People are watching them, and we just posted those last Friday. So it's good. I think that's a great idea. I think for this process, there's, you know, people are applying and then they're still getting appointed. So, I mean, I, like, as someone who's appointing people, it often feels like blindly, like, if there was an application committee chair outreach, and then some feedback that was being brought to council, I think that would be incredibly valuable. It's definitely putting more work on the committee chairs or some designee of the committee or whatever to have to do that work. But I mean, if it's someone who's going to be potentially a member of the committee, I think, you know, and we've definitely had some times where, like, we appointed someone and then other people on the committee were like, why did you appoint this person? And it's like, oh, yeah. Well, there was a seat and they applied. That's why. So, that might be a valuable thing all around to help our committees. Thanks, Kelly. Thanks, Kelly. Yeah, and I want to recognize only about five minutes left here now, and there's a bunch of more things I want to make sure we talk about. And I also just want to say, like, yeah, we're going to continue this conversation in the new year. And it's like, and the committee chairs are all just humans, too. And, like, probably are coming in with our own, like, lenses and perspectives and blinders and everything else. So, it's just wanting to, it's definitely always going to be an imperfect system. So, just wanting to say that. Okay, but I feel like I hear there's a lot of excitement about updating the committee application process and the onboarding process. So, that's really exciting. Maybe just, oh, and people are hopping off. So, I think that the last one here is just, like, creating a list of trainers, finalizing, you know, the budget, making the plan for the budget disbursement. I don't think we have time right now to talk about the initial proposal of combining the budget of the stipends and of the committee. And then I also just put in another funding opportunity that I was made aware of last week, too. And so, yeah, is there anything that we should say briefly about kind of the last point on the strategic plan or is there a motion for adopting the strategic plan here? Sorry to rush us. Just really rich conversation though. I'll make the motion to adopt the strategic plan. Um, real quick question. These tactics under ongoing education, it's really just, it's not us acting as trainers. It's more compiling the resources that people might want to pursue. Yes? Yeah, just being really clear about that. Yeah. And I was like compiling a list of trainers and budgets for them and things like that, not us being the trainers. Got it. Okay. And just FYI, it came up at the last council meeting when we were looking at the budget of like what the $10,000 that, so we've got the $20,000 for stipend is currently in the budget and $10,000 for CJAX work, which people are asking what might we use that for. They were asking if we still had a contract with Creative Discourse. And so I said, you know, like for example, we've been getting requests for DEI trainings that would have to be, that we would be hiring a professional. So this could be a pot of money that could be useful for city committees, you know, that is providing professional training and support as an example of what we might use that budget for. Hopefully that was accurate or if there's other thoughts. I mean, I could see some trimming happening to the budget in the coming weeks. So if there's, if we think of like good tangible examples of why we need this money and what we will be using it for, I think that would be helpful. I'm hoping neither. And I had talked to Shayna about the idea of maybe like combining the budget lines so that there was some flexibility. So if like three quarters of the way through the year, there was still stipend money left, but we could instead reinvest that in like more trainings or an event or something. But like at this point, I feel like that's not going to happen. Yeah. I mean, it could, if we think that's really important or valuable, it might just be that we could talk to city staff about like, is there possibility to do that without having to, I don't know, the more scrutiny and time we're spending on these items in the city council budget meetings, just the more maybe overly scrutinizing them is not helpful to us. And Lauren, sorry, if a city council doesn't decide in person training, there are always like a digital platforms, you can have membership, not very expensive for like specific number of people and everybody can go and watch online trainings and learn things about DEI. It will be a little bit cheaper, I think, if we be considered this, that kind of approach. Michael, what are you going to say? Well, just on Lauren's point, my experience with grants is that there's always kind of an area where you up to X percent, you don't need, you don't need permission to shift budget items, and that allows some flexibility with not shutting down the whole, or sort of halting the whole process until you get that permission. So I would recommend that as maybe a compromise position. We'll give it, you know, you have a 10% leeway one way or the other, or if that seems appropriate, that number, but just make up a number. But anyway, without having to go through the whole process. I didn't know that. That's super helpful. And can I second the strategic plan or it is too late? Wait for a second. All right. Good. Thank you. Michael nominated or Michael made a motion. Pell and seconded, all in favor? Hi. Hi. Any opposed? Awesome. Yeah. And I think like this is just, you know, for us to kind of get on the books of what our plan is. And then, yeah, we can, you know, things can not go according to plan too, but kind of setting, setting this in. Initially, I did, I know we're at time already. I did just want to flag the other things on the agenda here that were kind of two other initiatives that got sent my way over the past two weeks. One is this declaration of inclusion that if you want to click on the link, it is a, it is like a very, very basic declaration that a number of cities and towns all across the state have been passing. And I guess like most states have been passing it in state. Like they're just trying to get all 252 towns in the state to like have some sort of declaration to like recognize that this is like, you know, like a promotion of welcoming. And, you know, it was started by a group of independent folks. It was then kind of funded and supported by Vermont, VBSR, Vermont, whatever that group is called, sustainable business. Ah, sorry, can't remember. And then also the, thank you. And also the Chamber of Commerce. And so like, there's like, you know, concerted like business interest in having, you know, cities and towns be able to pass something. And so that's kind of where it's coming from. I definitely was very skeptical skeptical of this and like set up a call to talk it over more. And I think, yeah, it's much more of saying like, okay, I'm on pillar, like, you've got a committee, you're like doing this stuff already, but it's just kind of to have some, this like similar declaration passed in all of these different places, even though recognizing in some places it may just be lip service. And they did say there was one city that kind of watered it down too much when they passed in. So they're not including that in kind of the list of cities and towns, just like as one example. So I thought, you know, I don't have any concerns with the city passing this, I don't think it's like a number one priority, but that it could be helpful for the city to be added onto the list of all the other cities and towns that are passing with namely, you know, being the capital and things like that. I know I'm just like dropping, you know, this at the end, but doesn't anyone have any questions or concerns about this or I think the next steps are to just kind of introduce this in January. I guess my only question, I had read it a while ago and I was like, ah, it seems like kind of lame and spoiler plate language. Like, it seems fine. It's probably not worth our time to like, I mean, maybe we want to add a sentence about, you know, that this committee existing and being an important part of the work or something, but like, maybe it's not even worth any effort. Yeah, but I mean, maybe the next step would be like, I could update the language and then, yeah, sorry. Oh, I just gotta say, yeah, like, I think minimal effort doesn't seem harmful to do it. It doesn't seem helpful, particularly for what we're doing, but it seems fine. Go ahead, Michael. Well, I mean, I think vagueness is a problem. I mean, if you're making this declaration and you don't really sort of make it clear what it means, and then all of a sudden you find yourself possibly being accused of not, you know, not following the declaration or people making, you know, making demands on the on its basis. If I'm remembering right, I think, I mean, I think we're doing the work that's in it, like probably more than most other communities. So like, I don't think there would be, I wouldn't be concerned about, I mean, people should just read it. Like, it's more just like, we are going to be a welcoming and inclusive community. It's like just kind of, I don't know what, yeah, I don't know, read it with that lens, see if it raises any concerns. I think it's probably okay, but. And if you click around on the website, they offer implementation guides too, for kind of like initial implementation, ongoing implementation, like more in-depth implementation, and it's like, you know, starting with like printed out and frame it in the office to like doing implicit bias trainings for city or town staff or, you know, like task a committee with researching most effective ideas for creating a more welcoming committee and issue reports. It's like, it is a lot of the things that we're already doing. And so it's, yeah, there was nothing in it that I was like, ooh, new idea, but there also wasn't anything that I was like, oh, this is a bad idea for my, my initial look. So I mean, it seems to me, and this gets into a lot more work for us is to amend the declaration with one kind of the bullet points of all the work that I think Montpelier has been doing on these issues. And then two, maybe aspirationally, some areas in which we strive to do more. Now, that's a lot of work. But it would, for at least for our community, do what Michael's suggesting, giving a little bit of more specificity, as well as something to shoot for, because we're not done, right? I mean, it's, if there's, there's more to do. But again, that's, that's work that somebody would have to do to kind of fill out that, that declaration of it. May I suggest that we table this for our next meeting? That's what we'll say. It's like five after already. Let's maybe table this for next meeting and then this could maybe even be pushed back after that. Like we can talk about it more and then maybe someone can take it up and edit the language and then bring it back. So that sounds great. Okay. So I don't know if we have a next meeting on our books here. Do we want to do two weeks from now, which is January 4th? Does that make sense? Or is there, do we want to push it off until later that month? Proposal for January 4th? If you want us read the documents in a like more careful way, I will suggest not the closer date because of the holidays, right? Holidays, right. Everybody is just want to take a break. So maybe January 4th will be too soon, but it's up to our group. Only thing I would say is it's been really nice when it's gotten off stagger with city council weeks because those are like really long days. So the fourth is not, if we wanted to push it like to the next week for that meeting because of the holidays, but then I mean ideally if it's on like the first and third or whatever weeks instead of the second and fourth when city council is, I would just personally appreciate that, but it's not the end of the world either. It's fine. Let's do the fourth and let's not plan on doing like touching anything between now and then and then we'll have that be more of like a work session again more like this meeting where we can then dive into it and look at it and do the language edits together. Does that sound okay? Yeah, great. Cool. And probably if you sent around the declaration of inclusion, I mean it's like a couple paragraphs probably we could manage to read it or we can take two minutes to read it together. It's very short. So yeah. Awesome. Let's yeah, plan on that and thank you all so much for diving into the strategic plan review and sorry we went so far over time. I really appreciate it though. Thanks for your work. And happy holidays all. Happy holidays. Yeah, have a good holiday everybody. And thanks for dealing with my tech issues. You're like just can't freaking win on this. Yeah, here we are. What happened? I don't know. Bye. Bye. See you all.