 Welcome to the Donahue Group. You're back and we're back for another half hour of conversation that's meant to shake the world Okay, not but in any event. I have some very relaxed gentlemen with me today people Cal Potter retired state senator Tom Paneski professor of mathematics, and I'm sure you're working this summer Hardly working a little laid off a little we're laid off. We'd like to go north. There's nobody here as associate That's right. So and teacher Ken Risto just free and easy. I'm Mary Lee Johnny Hugh I'm working as a lawyer for O'Neill Cannon Holman D young it keeps me busy But in any event we're happy to have you join us There's a number going down the screen Well, you know in the last episode we did you know to sponsor the the lobster boil Oh, no, you know we shan't do that. No, no, no, no, no, no But in any event I want to pay tribute to someone that I never agree with on anything And his wife Terry and Mary Kohler There was a wonderful series of articles in the journal Sentinel And I know I might be a little sentimental for it little anthropomorph occasion going on here But mahal this really adorable orangutan was flown from the Colorado Zoo where he had been rejected by Moms and surrogates enough to break your heart and flown out to the Milwaukee Zoo where he's doing fine And so I think we should thank Terry and Mary and they often do these kinds of humanitarian Things that are a little off the radar screen that you don't see other people similarly situated normally doing so I think they both deserve some credit for that So there you're here. All right. I just hope Terry doesn't run and run him for office. I Think that there's some candidates that mahal could do very well up against He's absolutely adorable and from what I understand from the article is from an orangutan point of view From it's that anthropomorphizing. I mean, he's just like this little cute guy. Okay, well, they're 98 percent similar as human beings We don't want to admit it exactly Exactly. So in any event, I'm gonna move right along here. So I'm gonna sneak evolution and look out. Yeah So I'm not held up to any abuse or scorn here Wisconsin's not doing a very good job of eliminating cell phone use while you're driving Apparently any legislative efforts to have that happen have been shot down in flames California has just implemented And Is this an issue whose time will come in Wisconsin I must say as we were driving back from the fireworks this van made an extremely dangerous Why turn in the middle of the street? The car coming forward almost hit him and as he's turning around his own phone I noticed he just happened to be on the telephone. I Get kind of wild about it, but I think it'll happen the band. I Think if we have enough Studies and there have been several showing that there is a higher incident of accidents I think eventually the evidence will be there that you can't refute it I mean, it's not going to go in the other direction people are gonna become safer It's gonna we're gonna have some kids killed or some I saw a lady in front of me the other day She had a big dog on her lap talking and driving a car and I said what a kid right in front of this car I mean, there's no way this woman is going to be able to stop or even notice the kid She doesn't need an airbag Well enough anecdotes, but interestingly enough and the hands-free Systems have been selling briskly in states where where it's against the law now to hold a cell phone But the theory is that it's actually the activity of thinking you're talking and communicating with people Is is more difficult. I'm not sure I buy that don't you talk to people who are in the car with you There are studies there are studies that they've got out there You know you pet scans and brain scans and things that say that the part of the You're part of your brain that is engaged during telephone conversations is the same part of your brain That's pretty much monitoring what's going on while you're driving and why you work You know why you're the same section Was it 32% diminished something like that was the number 30% plus or minus of that area was Diminished as a result of you being in the telephone. So your ability to drive is significantly reduced when you're yabbering on the telephone It's different than listening to the radio, which is more of a passive exercise. It's a different section of your brain I don't know about talking or eating your big mac or talking to your husband They're yelling at your kids in the backseat or whatever, but not only talking. I think they do text messaging, too And so they're and they're reading their texts, you know, they're They're good with their one hand and they're reading and why aren't they reading does Dayevsky? You know, that's what I want to know So that's using the I guess that's the same part of the brain if you're communicating you're not talking you're texting The reality is some people don't start very much with very much between their ears and if they're 32% diminished I Got for Christmas now watch your back as you leave I got for Christmas one of those GPS things that you know tell you where you go, you know And so you've got this woman telling you what to do. That's not that's okay But if you're not I found cuz you're so used to that. Well, I yeah But beyond that is the little screen you watch yourself on the road the map You start watching that map and pretty soon You're not watching what's going on around you at all and I finally simply had to get off the side I Grief back the car out of the quick bed And the woman's like you're in the ditch Which is sort of like having your wife next year. She's telling you the same thing Yes, and you see I just wanted to give you that line so that you could take advantage of it and buy Jinkies you did Um drinking is a problem in not yet Series in the press is not surprising. Oh, yeah To collect German culture is known for years to be the tavern is the old meeting place, you know the beer hall and But people used to walk home. I used to walk home though And I think you know we'd say they're sure exciting now this number of taverns per person I would think shaboy against probably less taverns today than you know, 30 40 years ago. Absolutely Person we rank fourth And in the nation, Wisconsin, who's one do you know who's one Vermont Vermont well, I suppose a lot of people Vermont has the most Other populations Delaware's third and South Carolina is second and North Dakota South Carolina would never have guessed in a southern state new definition of Bible Belt Well, I do give the press credit because I think it's a I mean, it's an important topic we talk about drug abuse all the time But people never consciously draw the line between drug abuse and alcohol and alcohol Along with cigarettes are clearly the two most dangerous drugs that are in widespread use and that cause widespread deaths The average estimate is that 400,000 people die every year in the United States from alcohol abuse and about 4,000 die of marijuana abuse and how many families are torn apart through domestic abuse and child abuse and all Yeah, and not to Not to in any way, you know minimize, you know the effect of any illegal substances, but I Mean if we use the same the same thought pattern then we clearly shouldn't make both alcohol and cigarettes Illegal drugs because of the the devastation that they that they that they bring to a community or have laws that Are stringent enough to reflect the seriousness of the crime for years, Wisconsin was at at point one five For its intoxication level and it was like heresy to suggest it ought to be point one all and the national government Of course was setting the standard at 08 a long time ago Right, you know why didn't Wisconsin move well because of the drinking culture in this state? And now look at how many people are under fifth six seven drunk driving conviction I mean, I haven't simply for somebody like that. They ought to be thrown in a jail and throw away the key for a while But you know, why is it that we coddle people for so many years in our laws? It's because of the prevalence of drinking, you know politicians pandered to Constituency well if you're selecting a jury and you're asking questions you can ask, you know your potential jurors How many of you been convicted of armed robbery? Please raise your hand. How many of you who have ever that, you know Run somebody over raise your hand. How many of you have ever driven under the influence? all, you know, you know 15 out of 25 hands go up and and it's because it is something that you know sadly happens and People are put in prison or whatever and there's no treatment so they come out and they Reoffend and so it it really is a hard problem But I do think the press has served a purpose here by by at least bringing it into some sort of Sharp relief when I was a lawyer doing Reviews of people who are protectively placed in nursing homes. It was called a watts review. It was required still is And I was amazed at reviewing the records of these very old people in nursing homes record after record after record talking about alcohol abuse in the family and I mean it was absolutely prevalent in This area I think I mean at least you know anecdotally based on these records that I've been reviewing in such so Tom well, one of the things we were talking about taxes and the article did also say which state had the lowest Taxes on beer in which states had the highest taxes on beer the states with the highest taxes are Alaska and Hawaii believe it or not and The states with the the top two states with the lowest taxes one of them is number one is Wyoming and number two is Wisconsin Wisconsin So we have the lowest tax rate so I guess that's always an issue with Many times when the budget was being stressed and we needed to come up with money somebody would say well Let's go from two dollars to three and oh the ceiling came in, you know, no you can't do that People who are at the corner tavern won't vote for us anymore. You know, well the breweries. I remember that discussion When I was much younger man We were tend when I was tending bar to get through college Anytime that was proposed in the legislature got close to a consideration The our beer distributors came out with very high glossy little tents that they wanted us to put on on the bars And the tabletops along the restaurants to say, you know, they're about to tax beer It's and it's going to cost you, you know much much much more, you know to buy You know your beer your wine whatever it is and people just you know just were outraged by that you were saying before we went on the air that That the beer tax has not been increased in I believe I believe it's it goes back many decades I thought it was way back to 30s But two dollars has been on the books for many many years really yes per barrel not a not a case a barrel Wow, wow. Yeah, and a half barrel is quite a bit of beer Yeah, but but beers but distributors and everything they sponsor Baseball teams softball teams. They they they Contribute to quite a few athletic events or other kind of events helping various groups And so, you know Well, and I think that's with most things I mean whoever thought that we could really entertain a Band on smoking that would be fairly widespread and I think just society Changes after a while and things that we're talking comes from awareness and education And I think the series of these articles is very very helpful I you know eventually we need to have national health care and if we really are honest about it We ought to start looking at some of the risk activities and see if we can't generate some of the revenue for the health care plan From that there's no reason why we couldn't have five dollars on a barrel of beer and another 25 cents in a pack of cigarettes And maybe 10 cents in a big Mac or something and slow But surely you could raise the money to provide everybody with health care in this country And nobody would be any worse for it health wise right exactly and maybe just a little bit better off sure interesting well, I Again the the graph that was on the Sunday paper toward the back was just and I think that's where many of your statistics are coming For all the numbers in a spreadsheet Shifting them around I just I like to play with numbers. So there you go Math ties on vacation. So but in any event well, we'll we'll have more to say about that. I I I'm saying it out loud. How many people here are upset about the fact that Brett Favre might be coming back to play for the Packers I'm just I just love the the media hype and it's like this girlfriend that keeps leaving you You finally just think you get over and then she's back I mean, I hear tell I can't speak for first Exactly, this is what I've been told Exactly, but there's all sorts of rumors going out of Green Bay, you know all through this whole process that He didn't necessarily really come to this decision on his own of his own We free will there's been all sorts of rumors that he was sort of given a little little helping hand toward that decision Really? Yeah, there's some of that going on whether it's true or not I don't you know, I nobody knows but and the other thing is I think this is just a guy who's you know Been in the media spotlight for a long long long long time and then pretty soon. You're just Sort of like being president United States, I suppose in a certain sense You know, you're just off the radar screen and you know, he's calling anymore except silly silly commercials Yeah, and I think it's very difficult to make that transition Especially when you can feel it, you know Sometimes I could probably still come out there and still play pretty well and you thought I couldn't talk about sports Just ye of such little faith, but in any event you're well-rounded. This is just breaking The speaking of talking just about silly things Do you think that the assembly will be able to the Democrats will be able to take the assembly back? They're very optimistic, and I think on numbers looks good. There are three seats short of Establishing a majority and if you look at how well Obama is doing in Wisconsin and several of the swing states. He's doing well and there is a coattail There's a noise a lot, but there is coattails I think I Think there's a good chance of it Especially if Obama does very well in the state and the fact that the one of the things that Democrats have done in their Confidence is they've recruited candidates. I believe in 94 95 other 99 districts, which means The incumbents Republican incumbents are gonna have to stay close to home And so they're gonna have to tend to their own district rather out there helping their colleagues in these targeted districts So I think the logistical effort out there is it looks good for the Democrats I noted that John Gard has filed a declaration of candidacy against Steve Kagan on the elections board site Guard that did not have his nomination papers and when I checked yesterday, but of course I'm sure right now is a very busy time at the government accountability board, but I am I Think Kagan is okay. I don't think guard can mount a good challenge or Well, it's supposedly one of the top three races for the Republicans in the country So the right? Oh, I did not know the resources are being targeted. I would say that If the dirty campaigns have any effect, it's gonna be a close race because Kagan is targeted It's it's just interesting to see because he beat guard by a bit didn't he it was not a squeaker So but he didn't have a record. He was just I know local doctors now. He's got all these roll call boats I know you know what the 32nd ad can do to a roll call boat Exactly, exactly and the lesson of modern politics, I think And I think I think McKean will do well in Brown County. Oh I think you will and so that co-telefactor talking about might help guard as well Yeah, so it'll be interesting to see how the political landscape plays out Across the state, but I think that race will be one of the most interesting And energy costs, you know have another different a face in Wisconsin. That's heating You know, they're the Prognostic heaters are saying Democrats have on their side the four dollars something a gallon gasoline cost But if you're heating your home with fuel oil, that's also 400 for $4 a gallon and when historically you can remember what fuel oil used to be cheap stuff, you know, I Don't know how some people can stay in their homes at $4 a gallon with heating fuel and anybody who will be Getting their first fuel Phillips this fall. I'm gonna have a real sticker shock That's what it's gonna cost them to heat their home So they're gonna be have another way of being ticked off against whoever they want to be ticked off against Yeah, and of course the Republican response is just drill more. So I mean, I Public bad public policy gets made in times of Of great need and some panic and a sense of crisis and it is a crisis for a lot of people But it's their own fault. I mean you remember what Jimmy Carter talked about energy sufficiency Self-sufficiency many years ago. They laughed at him. You know, who's this green guy here talking about these type of things? Talking to us in a cart again. Yeah, yeah, I remember that speech from the White House There was a fella on public radio this morning who said that North Dakota just North Dakota If you put up, I believe he said 100,000 windmills in North Dakota enough electricity for the entire United States and You could tell this guy was a dreamer, but on the other hand He's talking about just building these enormous windmills Which of course are now like oil cranes or the oil Derrick's that's it. I mean, they're they're big. They're noisy They're majestic Cousin heirs for birds. Yeah, put them in California. They got the Santa Ana winds Well, and there are I mean there's migratory bird pattern issues. I know But there are also tons of windmills in in in California You know, you come over those bleached brown hills and they're just fields and fields of them up on the rid And it is kind of neat to look at but only for a while And I'll take a ride on highway 49 just east of coupon and you'll get a shock Yes, then whole ridges is filled with windmills. Yes, I believe I believe I see it in a sort of a community setting You know your desert may be right out in these farm fields. It's quite interesting sight to see And then we're going to talk about visual pollution Well, that's already going on out there Yeah, there's considerable numbers of farmers and community members that really consider those a blight and ruining their They're you know rural rustic views. Well, they don't want them out there They're noisy, you know the classic case too is you go out to Cape Cod in Massachusetts, which is a very very consistently windy area where you'd really Objectively would put these things out there and way Teddy Kennedy and the boys and everybody else has got you know Martha's vineyard. They don't want those things out there even two three miles off the coast wrecking their you know They're beautiful views. Yeah, so nobody wants nuclear power in their backyard. Nobody wants wind in their backyard Nobody wants drilling in their in their backyard Cole is not cold. Oh kidding. So I mean these are huge Issues and and somewhat hard to address but and that's going to be a real issue for Wisconsin because a lot of our Electricity is generated by coal and if there's any kind of a cap You know capping of you know carbon emissions. It's going to affect Wisconsin disproportionately Well in the Oak Creek plants that are being built now by a lion to our they're huge huge plants and There was substantial opposition to their building, but They're they're going up and so it'll be interesting just to to see how that plays out, but North Dakota actually has some lovely parts to it and having driven through it several times and So and I I think when mills are interesting to look at but then again, I don't have one in my backyard so So not so bad. I want to just circle around to non-partisan politics I mean this is clearly the partisan season And I think we'll have some interesting races and such as time goes on but The Supreme Court continues to be interesting I Was most interested in these four three decision in which the Supreme Court said that if somebody If some stinking liar lies to you about the condition of a house and you don't discover it you can't sue for fraud I thought that was a most interesting decision and I'm wondering if that will be You know decisions of the future and I Can't sue for fraud when you've been defrauded. I it's it's it's a unique approach And so we'll see how that goes the court decision there was that their remedy was to civil lease Seek the civilly sue damage right dammit is right right well But you can do an intentional tort for fraud, you know, which goes beyond regular misrepresentation And it's a powerful quiver arrow in the quiver, you know intentional torts or wrongdoings are They're naughty it leads to punitive damages under certain circumstances and so forth So it's clearly a remedy that's been taken away from homeowners and there is a lot of litigation that happens and my view is relatively few home People who are selling their houses actively defraud anybody. I know it happens But it's more or less like well I didn't realize that you know X Y and Z was going to happen or my inspector didn't find this or things like that So but nonetheless Which leads to Shirley Abrahamson as we talked about I know before but Has launched What appears to be a very aggressive? Race for her reelection which is not going to happen until next April. She's pushing heavily for contributions I think she's already raised two hundred thousand dollars Which of course in the Supreme Court race now is a mere drop in the bucket Isn't that remarkable but Anybody running against her, you know, there are no candidates so far That may be part of her strategy Mm-hmm. I think start early get the endorsements lined up get a bank account that no one can touch Maybe she'll be in a better shape than the last two races that that were very very close and contentious. Yeah The word is and it may just be apocryphal, but that Gabelman was down the list of Potential candidates and only after about 17 other people had said no did he say yes, which would make sense I mean, you know a district attorney from a small county up north, but that didn't make any difference And he was certainly able to prevail but I think I think justice Abrahamson first of all now the conservatives if you do think in terms of blocks conservative or or liberal the conservatives have the court now and As often happens that this the the US Supreme Court not so much now But in years past you have swing votes, you know justices who will you know Kennedy on the on the US Supreme Court And it'll be interesting to see if there are any swing votes in the in the Wisconsin Supreme Court But now the blocks seem for three so the need for Wisconsin manufacturers commerce to to pull justice Abrams and down are less. I mean, it's less compelling I mean it would ensure your majority if you know the best justice that money can buy But but it'll be interesting to see what happens in any event It'll it'll develop as it develops Also noting that justice Ziggler has decided to close her campaign account Which means that she's writing off a loan that she made to herself in the amount of 820 $3,000 I believe now they make a hundred forty thousand a year so that's a pretty steep, you know price for the your dance ticket there and Linda Clifford lent herself over five hundred thousand dollars for that campaign. Yeah so and It's hard I think to raise money for outstanding debt, but you know And I think that's why you don't see a lot of appellate court judges probably running for the Supreme Court They just don't want to enter the arena. Yeah Yeah They probably saved for retirement is going to be gone and you've got the Ziggler example all sudden you get in a Certain bind you got to write it off. I mean there goes your retirement for quite a while. Yeah, so But I'm sure she's happy to have all this behind her. So we're going to say goodbye Thank you for laughing with us and we hope that we see you again soon