 If you want to pump your body and expand your mind, there's only one place to go. Mind Pump! With your hosts, Sal DeStefano, Adam Schaefer, and Justin Andrews. In this episode of Mind Pump, we had the Box and Burn boys here, our favorite English fellows. They've got a great podcast. They've got two great gyms now in Southern California, boxing, cardio, fitness, and they're also hosting certification courses for trainers. Yeah, they're going to do it right here at our facility. Actually, they are. They're going to be hosting one at our facility, but it's cool because you get units, right, for different certifications. Yeah, for like NESM, I know is one of them. I forgot the other one. We had great conversations with these guys. In the following episode, we talk a lot about fitness business. It's the business end of things. Yes. If you're in the fitness industry, if you're a trainer, or if you're thinking about pursuing a business and fitness, this is a very informative episode. Really dive deep into their business and what they're doing. Of course, we talk about their boxing certification and what that entails and why it's different from other boxing certifications. Like Justin said, we are hosting one of their certifications here, October 8th. I believe we might have actually said seventh in the episode, but it is the eighth. It's a Sunday, so plan on that. Mark that in your calendar. You can come here to Mind Pump Media Studios and do your course here. It's taught by the Olympian Tony Jeffries and of course his partners Glenn Holmes and Kevin Watson, who are the guys that are going to be on this episode. You're about to listen to right now. Now, if you want to sign up for the certification, it is limited space. As of the recording of this intro, there's only eight spaces left. They only have 30 people per class. Hurry the hell up is what we're trying to get at. To sign up, you go to Box and Burn Academy. That's Box, B-O-X, the letter N, burnacademy.com. It's going to be here October 8th in San Jose at Mind Pump Media headquarters. And if you use the code Mind Pump, you'll get $100 off. And that code is only good for 48 hours. Oh, shoot. There you go. 48 hours is done. So when this episode drops, that's it. 48 hours and then it's no good. So without any further ado, here we are talking to Tony Jeffries, Glenn Holmes and Kevin Watson. I want to talk about, you did a post like maybe a couple of weeks ago about another great fitness mind that you had on your show and you actually said that their episode was better than ours. So I have a bone to pick with you. I want to get to the bottom of this right now. Who the fuck is this guy? How did he actually have a better episode than us? He was talking more about the business putting systems in place where when we come on here last, he's never told me about that. Or you should have told us about that. That's not fair, dude. We were so caught up in the science bullshit and we were running stuff. I mean, all you have to say, let's go that way. You got to start with step one. Start with step one and then you move. No, what you're doing, right? Then make money. So give me some stuff that he shared with you. Yeah, it was kind of telling us about the philosophy of what McDonald's use with the systems. And he says you wouldn't go in McDonald's on a Tuesday because Peter's there and Peter makes great fries. No, the fries are the same one every day of the week and that comes down to the systems that they've got in place to make them. And it's kind of the same with receptionists at work. That's what we use for the exam. Like every time someone comes in, they need to be greeted the same. The counterpoint I add to that was for reception and front desk and all that. It's a great point. But with trainers and classes and fitness in general, it's a very creative industry and you've got to allow creative freedom with the trainers while still maintaining a system. So it's finding that fine line where you're giving trainers creativity, but you've still got to do that within the system. Absolutely correct. Having managed big gyms as part of a large chain, you definitely want to have systems that makes people know that they're going to walk in and get what they're going to expect. It's a certain look, a certain feel, there's classes. The greeting is the same. However, that personal connection with trainers, you don't want to stifle that creativity from the trainer because I've experienced this where the company decided everybody has to do everything exactly the same and it killed. It killed their business because they lost that. They lost that ability. So it's a fine, it's kind of a fine line that you got to kind of dance around. If we've created a class like which we have an amazing class and a trainer's got a good idea for that class, he can't just implement that idea in the class and say, oh, now we're doing four minute rounds because this is better. If that idea is better, he's got to come to us and say, listen, I think this idea is better. Then if we all agree and we're all on the same page, then we put that across all classes. I do. It's a tough one because on the one hand, you want to do that, but on the other hand, perhaps you have 10 trainers and they're all good, by the way. We're not talking about people who are shitty, they're all good trainers, but you've got 10 potential laboratories of a little bit of experiment with a little bit of different creativity to where you give them enough autonomy to where they feel that they can be a little creative and then you're going to get, that's how you're going to see what is really working like that. That right there is freaking awesome. This doesn't work, so I'm going to tell you to stop doing that, but this is amazing. Let's see if we can duplicate that. You want to be careful because you might stifle that. You guys are embarking on probably one of the probably hardest things that someone can do when they start to branch out and they have multiple facilities and then franchise in a sense like McDonald's or whatever, right? And most guys that have built empires that are big like this will tell you that they miss the good days when they were building it at the beginning, because what ends up happening is so much of your energy and focus gets put into these systems, because it comes important. You're right. A great book to read is the Starbucks book. I forget what it's called. Also, Fred Factor for Your Front Desk. So Fred Factor for Your Front Desk, the Starbucks book is really good because they did such a great job of doing that. You can get a cup of Starbucks anywhere in the world and you can guarantee that it's going to consistently taste that way and that is definitely kudos to them and their systems that they put in place and everything too like how the girl takes your order and how she talks to you, all that. The other thing to consider too is but you lose the magical little piece to it where it's unique and different and allows all this freedom and flexibility and different brilliant minds to kind of blossom and be their own. What ends up happening, and this is what I didn't like about working for a big corporation was to be on and I forget what book this is. It talks about this is how big corporations really don't want A players. We pretend like that we want A players but we really want B minus C players, people that... Just do as they're told. Yeah, do as they're told because if you really surrounded yourself with a bunch of A personalities like yourself, those guys and girls don't stay around for very long because they eventually want to do big things like you did, right? So it's this fine line of finding the right people that fit in that category of I need guys and girls that can execute, can do great things for us but I actually only want them to be so good or knowing that I'm going to develop them, I'm going to get the most I can while they're here knowing that they're going to exit and leave one day from me, right? I think personal trainers by nature, at least good personal trainers are very creative people in a sense, they're artists. So if you take that ability for them to be creative within whatever it is that you're trying to build with the fitness facility, it is going to be very destructive but I think our model is great because we have the structure, we have the nine rounds, we have the warm up, we have the shadow boxing, we have the burnout, but within those rounds, there's a platform for them to kind of sprinkle their own flavor and then really do what it is they do and what their strengths are. Yeah, and the other thing too with retail, when you're going, when you want a Starbucks or McDonald's and you travel around the world, you're going to go in, you're going to walk in, you're going to get your product and leave. When it comes to fitness, when you look at the statistics, a very small percentage of people exercise when they travel. It's actually a small percentage. Most people work out when they're home. So the benefit of being exactly the same everywhere, you lose a little bit of that with fitness. It's not necessarily the same, you know what I'm saying? Whereas if I'm traveling, I'm going to still get a Starbucks if I'm in a different state or a different country. I may not be like, hey, I'm on my vacation for a week, I want to go find the gym that I always work out at. It doesn't typically transfer that way. I think what's so brilliant about your guys' model is that you have the classes, and then you also have these little mini gyms attached to it that allows. So what I would do is I would encourage my trainers to, you know, you fucking follow the protocol that we built that's in there for a reason, and we can discuss about potentially modifying in the future and all agree upon if that's a good idea. But where you have your creativity is in your private sessions. Yeah, exactly. You know what I'm saying? Be creative. Do unique things. You think four rounds is great. Well, fucking do it when you're teaching your little class. That's exactly what we're trying to do. We've spent years, five years now on trying to perfect our class. Obviously it's not perfect, and it's not amazing yet, but it's still one of the best workouts you're going to get within a boxing class. See, we have five to seven trainers teaching one class. We've tried just about, well, I'm sure there's not, just about most things to make it better. We've done loads of trial and error. So if a trainer comes in and they're like, nah, this is better today. We're going to do this. Like, if you do go to McDonald's, someone's not going to put triple cheese on your burger if it's double cheese burger cost. He thinks it's better. Right. If he does think it's better, he's going to go and tell the managers, listen, I think if you put three cheese on this, it's going to be better. And then if it is better, let's do it across everything. Have you identified what makes some of your trainers more popular than others? Have you identified some of those things? Glenn is really good looking. Yeah. No, I think it's, what makes it is energy. Passion. Passion. Yeah, energy. It really comes down to passion and genuine care about what it is they do and helping people. And then a sincere sense of, I guess, what's the word? A sincere sense to always want to get better and continue to improve and consistency is a big thing. Do you guys train? How do you train? Wait, I want to, before you go there, because what I want to know, it'll help everybody who's listening and watching this too, is what are each of you kind of responsible for the business? Like what do you each kind of focus on the most? Like is someone heading up the trainers most? One guy's looking more business vision and the financials. What are each of your main roles in the growth of the business or the focus? Yeah. Kev has put together a trainer development program now, like a hiring system. At one time, we start hiring people like, oh, have you done boxing before yet? Can you hold the pads? Great, you're hired. That's it. That was kind of it because we grew that fast with so many trainers. But now he's put this system together. That's really good where before we even interview a trainer, we tell them come and take some classes, try the classes out, tell us if it's for you or not. Then we want you to write a letter, not some notes about the class. How can we benefit having you working for us? Where do they fit in within like what we do and can they see themselves fitting here? Is it something they see themselves doing? Yeah, then from there, then we'll interview them. So that tells us whether they want to be in this industry or not because in LA more than anywhere, people want to be actors, actresses, models, whatever, and they're not passionate about this. So just that there, we can tell if they're passionate about it or not. Then we get them in for the interview. If the interview goes well, then we put them on a trainer development program what Kerbs put together. So they've got to go through this long process just before they kind of get the foot in the door. Then we do some development stuff for them to see if they're ready for classes. Once they're ready for classes, then we put them on the classes starting to shadow them. Then we start paying them because they don't earn any money over the days. It might take two weeks. It might take a month. It might take two months before they're ready for this process. And then who's managing the trainers like day to day? Like who's handling that? Yeah. And then from there, once they get in the classes and all that, then we've got head trainers like Glenn is like the fitness director and he overlooks all the trainers and the performance. We've got another trainer, Steven, who's helping with the performance as well of the trainers. Like I said, we've got 30 trainers. So it's a big thing. The hardest thing is in business is managing people. Being the leader and it's tough. It's interesting what you said at the beginning when people used to walk in. At the beginning it was like we needed them more than they needed us really because like Tony said, we grew so quick the classes were packed. We just needed manpower. But now fast forward five years we've built up a reputation and built the brand well enough and the membership's solid and the gyms are busy. The classes are full. Now we can be way more selective in the process and start hiring better talent to help it grow even better. Is the new hiring process, have you found it now to be more successful where you have less turnover or is it? Yeah, I mean I think we've definitely had some real like tangible success with it. You know, we're really only about three or four months in and we've really only had a handful of those trainers go through that whole process. It's tough because it's like okay well you could potentially lose out on some great talent if you really extend this hiring process you know to two months because people need to make money quickly so but you know by extending it you really kind of weed out those people that don't have the initiative and don't really have the genuine passion about even doing it. So that you know we just by doing that we do weed out a lot of you know people that otherwise may have had an opportunity and then they end up leaving a month later. Yeah, I know that the big issue isn't necessarily that you're going to lose people because the process takes too long although that may happen and like you said those probably are people you wouldn't want anyway. The real issue is is this time and money that we're investing in this process worth it because I've worked for you know companies that you know they actually analyzed their whole process where they did this whole long like interview process and then they found that they only improved their turnover rate by like two percent it wasn't even worth you know and then other times there's other you know other techniques. Well October 7th is when you guys come here right? Yeah. So October 7th you guys are hosting a certification here in our facility and you know that doesn't mean you're necessarily going to be trainers that work for you guys this could be just trainers that are looking for CEUs or trying to you know add boxing into their weaponry. Is that a CEUs for NASM? Yeah it's like three or four. Okay so it even goes so which is awesome it goes goes for ace in NASM so you can be just one other yeah so you could just be a trainer who's looking for the education piece but then you could also potentially be looking for candidates that could be trainers for you guys at one point is that right? Yeah I would like some of these trainers that come through I know. Mostly for I mean I guess Eddie came from Austin but he was moving to LA anyways but we most the trainers that we have that work for us now that have come from the academy it's all been local like Santa Monica academies but you know for the most part the trainers that we see in these satellite academies you know they're just looking to kind of add the boxing training to their to their catalog of knowledge to work with the trainers because everyone that does personal training these days wants to know how to you know how to box and hold pads correctly. You are seeing a lot of interest for that from personal trainers specifically. A huge side bonus of all this as well is like we said when we do our courses in Santa Monica it's almost like it's almost like an audition because they're coming and we're getting like 30 40 personal trainers coming in the gym and then we can pretty much take our pick and see like oh he's good he's good and then they're interested in working in the gym too. She's charismatic. It's ended up being kind of like a good little recruiting tool at the same time. Are there many women that join these classes and are super into it because I know training when I was training and training some of my clients like my female clients were super into boxing. Are you seeing a lot of huge? Yeah the women love it you know. What's your ratio? How many girls in the classes? More guys or girls? In the classes it's probably like 70% females at the boxing classes. At the certification courses that's different it's probably 50-50. But a great thing about this is boxing, teaching boxing it's really good for keeping your clients retaining your clients because every time you do a boxing session we've done some early on with Justin I've done some before him. Every time you do boxing you get better. Each session you can see a big improvement, a big improvement so mentally that's good for your clients. Do you know what I mean? And they get great results obviously it's the full body workout and all that so we're getting people telling us like now it sounds like a cheesy sales pitch but it's not but they're earning more money because they're retaining more clients. They're putting boxing classes on in their gym through coming hour course and learning how to teach boxing. Every one of my top trainers held pads. Really? Yeah. All the clubs I've ran I've always had anywhere between 15 to 25 plus trainers that were working for me at a time and always the top three or five had that. They were teaching and what I saw from the leadership role was that you could just see that it was fun for clients. Fun? Yes. As for trainers you're always looking for that right? You're always looking for ways to let your clients have it's not just about education and all the time sometimes it's about them kind of letting off some steam and actually enjoying this session and it's such a unique thing to do with them. Yeah. I mean it's highly highly rewarding but we mentioned this and we're also going to be launching the online academy but we were shooting the videos the other day. We mentioned and talked about there's I don't think there's really any other tool in all of fitness that gives you that much of an intimate and kind of one-on-one experience with with a client because you're literally in there you're sweating with them you're working with them like you know you're you know you're sitting there burning you're not just sitting there on a clipboard writing down reps and whatever it is you know you're in there working with them and that just that is something that you can't really replicate with any other tool. So I want each of you to give me one to two attributes that you want that you would want in that trainer like that to make them a badass coach slash boxing trainer that you that you look for and I'm sure each of you have one or two that are unique and different I'm sure there's five or ten that makes up a really good one what what comes to mind each of you. Like I said before I love energy and personality like personality in a personal trainer I think it's so important and it's something you kind of really teach personally you know if I feel like if you're a boring personal trainer I mean you guys can tell me that if you're a boring personal trainer it's going to be so hard to retain clients like people want to have fun they want to enjoy it so they come back you know so if if we can get a trainer who's got a great personality who's fun high energy I mean that that's perfect yeah I'm right with Tony on that I think that's the first thing that's going to help them retain clients and then the knowledge is going to support that so I'd say along with personality an eagerness an eagerness to or a willingness to learn and get better and advance the knowledge and growth forever yeah you know never get comfortable in your knowledge always keep trying to learn and grow and build and if you've got that with personality you'll you'll smash it I think genuine initiative and commitment to bettering yourself and always getting better not being complacent as a trainer and then also just a genuine passion and care for wanting to help people and actually make them better because you can be I mean a lot of personal trainers and we see it all the time are great salesmen they can sell packages but like what's their retention though they might sell a 10 pack because they great they made a great session one session but then are they retaining that it's not a long term plan you know maybe you do for two or three packages but are you training them two or three years down the road and are they improving you know those people that are just strictly salesman will be exposed eventually that's a good that's a good point one thing that I noticed you know managing other trainers was you would have your charismatic outgoing trainers who did well and then you'd have those other trainers a little more introverted a little more quiet but they also have a deep passion for wanting to help people so even though they don't have the same personality they attract a different clientele and they would do just as well and long term I think those people I mean personality is a huge part of it you have to know how to communicate with people you have to know how to find common ground but you know again if you're just strictly a salesman you have a great you're a hype man your great personality like that person that may be a little bit more reserve but is a better trainer and is more genuine and about helping those people long term they're gonna make you more money I think they're more trustworthy do you guys have do you guys have the systems in place to actually measure this and check it out like for example you said 30 something trainers you have working for you right now can I see that you know Susie's got a 75% retention and her members that come to her class and you know Sal has you know got 90% like do you guys have the ability to do that we don't have the analytics per se like we don't have them it charted out more so for the classes like who's coming back and who's taking the classes but you know I look at the trainer invoices every week to see who's clients what clients they're working with do I recognize that name is it a new client was it a trial am I gonna see that name so it's more up here so we need to put that on paper and let me tell you going getting back to you know how we started this conversation with how it's very difficult to manage a large staff of trainers and getting everybody being creative but yet focused on one goal this is something in my career that's helped me out I was always a numbers guy so I used to love to you know trainers would come in and they would be so nervous and scared to sell because I got into this for helping people and you mean to tell me I got to sell like that's just so to make that an easier process for them I would help break it down for them mathematically so it didn't look the same for example like you know we used to talk about like the average person can close at about 25% so and you know I could and I would actually go in and figure this out for each of my individual trainers on what their closing rate was and so I would say okay if you talk to and I'd be able to figure this out individually and this would be my one-on-ones that I'd have say okay it looks like you know you're closing at 17% so let's work that backwards that means you need to talk to you know 75 people we know that if you talk to 75 people half of those people will show up to your class we know that if half those people show up to your class that 30% of them will potentially enroll with you and then 17% of those you actually close on a package so instead of worrying about the sale and the closing let's just work on you getting to X amount of people and focus on that number instead of stressing yourself about your sale skills because that will come and develop as you go over time this helps you guide and lead them in the direction that you want with purpose and when you're when you're breaking it down really simple like that for them did you do a lot manually I did yeah we didn't have great great I think that's amazing approach is really good a big thing for us is I mean without you know breaking it down number wise but every trainer that comes in the work for us knows those classes that's their platform to kind of show who they are what they do as a trainer representation you know how genuine are they and their approach and how much they really want to help people the trainers that don't take that seriously and don't believe and buy into that they're not going to have many clients the trainers that really believe that and put their best foot forward every single class and know how to switch it on and aren't just working the 60 minutes they're working 10 minutes before talking to people socializing they're working 10 minutes after you know just giving people tips and showing them drills or whatever to fix things those people alone are definitely the ones that are going to for sure be the most successful at our gym we were talking about passion and having the passion and that's one of the key attributes of finding a successful trainer do you think that is something that someone's born with or do you think that's something that you train well I think passion and there's a book one of my mentors told me about I can't remember the name of it but can you teach passion like do you think is it just inherent or can you really develop passion and motivation can you motivate people I think for the most part you're either motivated or you're not you either have the habits and the work ethics to make yourself successful across any platform or you don't I really believe that yeah I used to sometimes I think to myself I think that because that's the natural inclination to believe that and I think we've experienced more often than not that that seems to be the case but I've also had experiences not many but I've had them where people came to me and they didn't seem to have the passion because of circumstances and then once I've eliminated some of those circumstances or gave them an opportunity then the passion can you give me an example yeah so I had I hired a guy years ago who actually good friend of ours who had applied somewhere else didn't get hired came to see me applied and we started talking and I liked him there was something I liked about him but he and he'll tell the story better himself that he didn't really feel he had this potential to do great things and that when he came to work for me I showed him that he could do these great things like he trust me and then the guy just fucking blew up and he became one of the top managers that the company had ever seen and I think it was just giving him that opportunity yeah is that passion though or is that you just gave him the opportunity and then he developed confidence but that passion I think was there he just didn't have a platform he talked about it that guy is very passionate he's passionate about sports and everything else you gave him the confidence in something that he was less confident about so it's just like I believe anybody that's probably in this room right now I could probably throw a subject or a career or a job out there that none of you have done before you'd be like fuck I don't know what I'm doing but if I built the confidence in you that hey you can do this I'll teach you how to do this you're all passionate guys you probably figured out and be successful it's finding what you like and what you love to that's what's going to bring that passion out you can throw somebody in a job that they don't like and they have no interest in it and be frustrated why they're not showing passion they're not loving it but then you think oh that person is not a passionate person are they performing though or they may not be passionate about it but are they performing because they can't they don't perform they can't just leave that job go get another job and all of a sudden all of a sudden turn a switch on they can still perform without passion I think I'd say the vast majority of people that are working office nine to five jobs are doing that I don't think that passion is necessary I think it makes our job as leaders a lot easier when you have passionate people this is again why I'm such a numbers guy because it took me a long time to figure this out because I used to look at my staff and I would say you know I'd have my superstar fitness director or trainer that I want everyone to be like him but the fact is there is nobody else like you and I need to stop doing that I need to start looking at this more like a football team and then I've got a quarterback I've got a wide receiver even though they're all doing the same job they really are different and unique for the company so then I need to learn how to get the most out of each one of them and for me nothing was easier than showing them that way with numbers and analytics to break it down so I could look and see like all of their different strengths like maybe you guys have somebody who fills classes really really well but closes like shit because they just don't have that charisma or passion to sell right but then they're really good about going out and getting leads to drive into the club but then I have this other guy who is lazy as fuck never goes out gets new leads never drives more people into my gym but man put one or two people in front of them and he will close the shit out of them so then I would piece these two together and I would motivate the one that was already passionate love going out and getting leads and bringing people in to continue to do that more because one of my favorite things to tell people is stop focusing on the things you're not good at focus on what you're good at and be great at it so if you're already good at going out and doing that I'm not going to waste my time because you already suck at it you know you suck at it, you're discouraged about it you know you're good at this, I'm going to keep pushing you to keep doing what you're good at and be great at it and then I'm going to work on the guy who's already that loves sales and good at it and I'm going to make him even better not only at selling for himself but maybe even helping others on my team and doing that so I can manage that, I want to call it double standard in a sense, I agree with you you have to make people be great at what they're already good at at bringing all the people in but this is the guy who's closing and he's not bringing the people in we've dealt with that a little bit some people are selling but they don't really necessarily perform and execute the way they should in the class but then you've got someone else that executes and is just amazing and all-star in the classes but then you kind of got that that they're ones earning more but with less effort by the way Doug you need to cut that clip about what he's just done there that's really motivating this gets my juices flowing when we talk like this because this is what I loved about leadership because it ain't fucking easy it's not easy I was going to make that point after you said that it takes talent to be able to do what you're saying to do to be able to recognize talent in other people you need to have talent to spot that yourself and then use that to the strength it's not always easy and it's not cut and dry like oh he sucks at this fuck him and then requires talent to find out what he's good at and then make him realize that he's good at that thing as well because he might not realize or she might not realize that they're good at that well I shared this on our podcast probably a couple times now and because people have asked us like some of the most like paradigm shattering moments or best advice that ever was given to you and I tell this story about a time when I was probably 22 23 years old I just got into management and leadership and my partner who was a GM at the club came in and I remember I was working on all this paperwork shit because I was not an organized person that's not what I was good at I was good at leading people and I just smashed goal and in my head I was all proud of myself my boss was coming in the district level guy I was coming in to come see me and I thought he was going to come in and tell me fucking how great I was because I just killed it, right and he came in and told me everything that I was doing wrong and picked apart and your files can be better this way and it just totally fucking discouraged me but I'm also a passionate, motivated guy so what did I do? I sat down on my desk and I'm doing the paperwork like I'm getting good at this and my buddy or someone who became my buddy later at this time my GM comes over and he fucking knocks it all off the desk he goes what are you doing and I'm like bro I have to work on this boss came in said all these things he's like listen you're 20 something years old you're in a position of leadership for a reason you've got qualities about you that are very very special this isn't one of them stop focusing on what you're not good at focus on what you're good at and be fucking great and it was like boom this like light bulb went off and when you think about that those people are going to be these employees are going to be so much more motivated to do the things they're already good at which as a leader you want to you want to drive and you want to push that you start focusing on the things that they're not good at and you put a lot of energy that way you're only going to discourage them we had a conversation today about what creates job satisfaction is it money or is it the fact that you're providing value within your job? some are different right? the psychology of management and how to manage people is going to tell you the biggest motivating factor is having some sort of sense of value that what they're doing that their work is important and it brings value to the business not necessarily the money like any article any book you read about managing people is going to tell I mean sure money is important as long as they're comfortable but I guarantee we're saying value and I agree with you but the people that we're thinking about and talking about would probably turn around and say money even though they don't realize that it probably everyone is different I'm saying the majority of people will instinctively say money when you could talk to them for 20 minutes and you'd probably be surprised Sal brings up a really good point he's brought this up on the show many a times you'll see some of the most motivated passionate people about something work for non-profits let's not say non-profits don't make money though you can certainly make good money well I'm talking about volunteers if you've ever worked with a volunteer feeding the homeless or saving the manatees or whatever buying into a vision and everybody's purpose and it's really like the culture you establish eventually if you're doing something that you just really care about and want to make an impact if you do it and you do it great eventually the money will come out of your imagination not always but most people you said something most people's instinct is to say money that's their instinct let them chase that money but are they ever going to find that happiness in reality they can buy as many things I love tangible things, I love buying nice things but we all know that that's not what happiness comes down to I think if you haven't got money money is the more of it you know that we're comfortable money's not motivating us anymore I tell you what, you take an employee that did a good job and you take them in front of everybody in front of the whole staff and you talk about how great of a job they did and how awesome they are, that's worth more than money many times sometimes you can give someone money it's on their paycheck nobody else knows and they're almost like but nobody knows praising people in front of other people very powerful, very very powerful don't underestimate I think Kev hit the nail on the head when he said if you are concerned with being the best and being passionate and giving everything to what you're doing your craft, the money will eventually come because you guys have two locations up now and you're all in one or the other you've got this great culture they're all kicking ass because you as the leaders really believe in what you're doing the challenge is going to be when you open three, four, five, six and now you guys aren't in there it's a challenge with two gyms already because like Tony said in the beginning we have four to seven trainers in a class so we already have a lot more trainers than SoulCycle or Orange Theory or any of those studios so we have more people to manage just by default because of how we run our classes so we've run into that problem with two gyms what we have to do is really develop leaders when they go, when we're ready to open a third gym we take those leaders and plant them there in that gym and then they understand the whole dynamic of what it means and that kind of comes back to what we said at the beginning but Alan Klosgrove was telling us about the systems for that to happen we need the systems in place and me and him will be working our asses off trying to do this shit the biggest challenge you're going to have with that is the buy-in from those people, from your trainers because there's going to be pushback the more systems that you put in place going corporate sell out so as a forward thinking leader I have to kind of think already like I know that these are necessary all the smart people tell me all the millionaires that have done this before me are like listen if you're going to do this you need to be more organized you need to have it like this you need to have these systems in place so you know that what will make and separate you guys from everybody else into your guys' clubs but then also doing that without disrupting this amazing culture that you've already proven and built to be successful because you're wanting to duplicate it so that is definitely it's challenging as fuck it sounds like that's one of the hallmarks of your guys' clubs is how many trainers are in each class why did you guys design it that way what is it that they provide is it because class 36 will have seven trainers it comes back to the intimacy of the mid-work the main attraction of the classes and the people that are getting that one-on-one attention in a group class we can't really get that anywhere else not only anywhere else but any other boxing studio in particular you're going to have one trainer with 30 heavy bags the trainer is going to be telling you to hit the bag faster, harder do some burpees, come back up, hit the bag more that's what I'm saying most other gyms are going to have that any boxing studio but because we have that intimacy in the rings we have such a good ratio of trainers now you're walking, we've got a trainer to approach you, wrap your hands like a real boxer when you first come in and then you're getting that one-on-one time you're learning real boxing technique rather than the one trainer screaming at you to punch your bag harder and faster these boxing gyms have popped up I don't know where we are popping up all over I kind of think that's seen this humbly because they've seen the success of we doing wow that boxing gym is smashing it it's everywhere we need to open a boxing gym and then they do it all completely wrong and then they get trainers who don't really know how to teach boxing which is good for us because now all these companies are sending the trainers to us to get certified but everybody wants to be the soul-cycle of boxing that's what we keep hearing I don't know if we should name studios but everybody wants now to be the soul-cycle which is a great model but you're not going to get that authentic boxing experience going into a place like soul-cycle I was just going to say the big difference to me looks like it is a gym operated by real boxers who have real skills well I was going to say you guys actually value the skill and the sport behind it versus somebody who's opening it up and saying it's just a workout let's just get you to sweat, hit the bag you guys are technicians you're jumping jacks in the sauna save the money we've had a lot of success with taking old boxers and making them trainers by showing them the personal training side, the mechanics, the body, nutrition and then we've also had a lot of success especially with the academy taking personal trainers and teaching them the boxing those boxing methods are founded in real boxing techniques and that's another thing that's really exciting about the academy is we're developing this curriculum so down the road when we do decide to expand and open multiple other gyms it's a hard hard job to find trainers that do what we do you either have to take a boxer and teach them how to be a trainer and teach them how to do the boxing but now that we're going to have this curriculum it's going to give us the system the skeleton for building and making the trainers to go so you don't have to necessarily look just for trainers you can actually open this up as like a formula that somebody that's really passionate about boxing whatever you can really take them through the course and the education of it level one, level two we're going to have a whole curriculum of courses a question for you boys what do you think the answer would be what would be better to do get an old boxer and teach them the training I'll get a trainer and teach them boxing trainer, teacher, boxer it's like 50-50 that would be my guess you get some I'm sure you use a work with trainers you know you get some really uncoordinated trainers useless you get these trainers like that for instance you can get a NASA certification by sitting on a computer and being able to take tests well I'll say okay so let me correct I'll tell you why I'll tell you why we all said trainers when you said a trainer turning into a boxer what I envisioned and I'm sure these guys can probably echo it is I envisioned someone's already a successful trainer who wants to teach boxing that's why I said trainer but if you're just taking a certified trainer who's just a certified trainer versus just a pro boxer athlete versus like a coach you know like this 80% of those trainers end up being failures already as trainers so they're probably not going to be a good trainer you're not going to make it I think you have to be a good trainer first and be a good boxing coach because I think you have to have those attributes the empathy the motivation growth-minded people who've boxed at world level world champions have tried to teach boxing to somebody who's never boxed before and they've got they haven't got a clue how to even begin to articulate it and just because they've done it for years and years since they were kids and got to a high level great but that doesn't mean that you know how to convey what you did to somebody who doesn't know anything about it well it's like if you ask an astrophysicist to tell you how the universe or whatever it is they're going to sit there and talk to Neil deGrasse, he's one guy that can break it down pretty simple but it's like they're going to be speaking a different language so I think that's similar to what you're talking about World WBC World Champions first two punches they try to teach someone a body shot and uppercut I want to know what you guys hopefully you guys will be open enough to share this on this podcast because I think that I like to get into the business talk with you guys I think you guys are in an awesome business right now and with an incredible idea and you guys are incredible dudes and watching you guys grow it and I know being somebody building a business too all the things that go behind the scene and the conversations that happen I would love to know what is your guys' greatest debate right now amongst each other or that you argue about like as far as direction or focus what comes to mind like the priority right now what comes to mind to me right away and you can tell me I'm impatient I want I just want to hire like the most talented people ever and I'm like we're at the point now where we've got a reputation and a brand I'm like let's just get fucking stood trainers and it's like oh we've got to go through the system and then I'm like I'm just so impatient but like you two are way more patient about it than I am like you two are like oh we'll get this guy in and we'll spend some time with him and do the workshops and I'm just like think about over the last year I mean you guys don't necessarily know but just between us think about over the last year two years the most talented trainers that we've brought in from day one where are they now that's what goes back to what you said right they're off doing their own business because they're an A they're like you know what I'm going to do boxing burning Jim G on this motherfucker I wouldn't argue to say that it's not a terrible thing and Tony and I've talked Tony and I have talked about this to say maybe not people that are A's from the beginning but people you develop into A's and they go out and branch out and do their own thing I know Tony really dislikes it but to me it's like it's a rewarding thing and like look if you're that what do you call it in Silicon Valley the how's their nest or whatever incubator if you're the incubator of all this great talent people are going to want to come and work for you you may be creating your own competition but like they're going to know hey I want to get better that's the place to go that's true good relationships and good training the reason why I dislike that is because we put time energy effort building relationships up with these guys giving out opportunities helping them create their own brand when they're doing absolutely nothing before they're in fitness but then we bring them in we teach them everything come friends with them and then I'm leaving I'm going to do my own thing but I bet you they all failed though well it depends I think it's case by case it depends how people leave and what they do after I think a lot of people have a hard time being 100% transparent and honest and upfront and saying look I want to go and do my own thing I value everything that you've given me and approach it in that respect you know being honest and upfront you'd get way further you'd still have that relationship behind you going into whatever you're doing but people have a real fear about being open and honest like that and they'll tell you something else oh shit and then it appears weeks and months down the line that they're not doing what they told you like what the fuck you know what I mean it's like another reality we have to kind of just come to grips with is we are in the fitness industry how many people are trainers for 30 years right most people use trainer they're a trainer like we you all were all trainers right how much training do you do now like nobody nobody's a personal trainer for life not a very few very very few probably less than a percent of all personal trainers train for more than 20 20 plus years it's the nature of the beach it's just there's the turnover it's just like waiters and waitresses like there's just turnovers it's just gonna happen but what you were saying though is I mean we experience all the time you bring people on training to develop them they think it's easy because they don't realize all the work that goes into getting fed all day and they're like oh I'm gonna go open my own personal training studio yeah and I would tell these people like you're not gonna succeed like if you if you aren't the absolute best trainer in this entire company you're not gonna there's no way you can make it on your own because it's 10 million times harder the best trainer they may not have the other assets and even then I've been I've been with these two since day one right before the gym even open and the amount of times I've been asked like what do you want to start your own gym or your own boxing burn gym or you know I'm like nope I see all the work and stress I've seen what they've gone through for the last you know five six years and I'm like you know more power to you another thing that's frustrating we had a guy a couple of months ago we trained him he had no boxing experience we trained him up and he was telling us this is the last job I want fucking lovely it's great and all that and we put him on classes and he was doing really well we put so much time energy money into him and then one day now I'm not making enough money I quit fuck fuck guy from England you know what it's gonna happen it's gonna happen that was where you made your mistake it's gonna it's gonna happen to you guys and the better you guys become the more often it's gonna happen let's be honest the better leaders you become it is a good problem and here's the way you have to look at it and the attitude you have to have because you're right there's gonna be quite a few of them that do that and inside you're like you know what fuck that motherfucker but you can't have that attitude because you know what you always gotta look for talent well it's also all it takes you could think of it this way if you're dealing with all these A players these are higher echelon guys and girls that you're meeting you know get some development and if you take that and then continue to rise up doing their own thing or whatever you know you keep a good relationship and this is why I always say your true net worth is your net circle is they they're part of you're still part of your circle you do a good job of and I still to this day mentor many trainers that have worked for me years and years ago and the way I look at it is this like if I'm really good to them and I don't do it with the intentions of getting something in return I'm just telling you this is what's happening my experience is this guy or girl that goes on 5 10 years later and makes it huge you know one of those will end up giving credit back to you or potentially be able to give you a hand so I mean you guys know we're in this business now of the virtual world and social media and email lists and all that shit like how great would it be that yeah this guy was with you know say I come work for you guys I fucking blow it out the water make it all kinds of money that I'm like hey guys I'm gonna go do my own thing maybe I do the boxing thing for a while maybe go find TV who fucking knows what I do but I get huge and I'm still in good relations with you guys that's what it's all about right to do a favor for you yeah no big deal you want me to email or tell my people or give you a shout out I mean so like I've said before question for your voice is like no one wants to be a trainer for 30 year if this is not their career goal how do you keep them motivated when we came back to that conversation are they gonna are we gonna motivate them are we gonna keep them motivated are they just inherently motivated people I yeah it's gonna be individual for each but what I love let me tell you what I loved about your guys this facility more than anything else and the knock I have on the orange theories the soul cycles all these other things because think about all those class settings and you're including you guys it attracts the similar type of person right a trainer a motivator somebody like that so we can agree on that so you guys all kind of get it but what you guys offer that I think is unique and the the nice piece is it does allow them to have their own little private business where they can train clients one-on-one they can build the hell out of and they can build the hell out of that and I feel like that is your that's your secret sauce to me I and when I when I walked in and I saw your place that was what was most impressive to me and what am I the way my brain works I went like oh cuz that is the biggest challenge I've been somebody who's ran big boxes I've had small facilities like orange theories I know what it's like to have those trainers in there the ones they get great teacher classes they do end up always but if I had a place for them to privately trick because what that's what most of them go do is they know they can make most of them leave because they make you a lot of money and then they realize oh my god I could be making all this money for myself now if you're helping them do that through their own private business that they have but the problem with that is and what we see in now as well so that they're doing that great for for you and then it's like these are taking this percentage of me for this I can be doing this shot by myself in the different they don't have the platform but I'm saying we see it happening so it's like now these they're taking 40-50% of us of our private training money they shouldn't be doing it like they don't get it and then the paying tax on top of that so now we have them have them listen to mine pump we talk about this all time literally that trainers leave these big box gyms or these other facilities that literally feed them right opportunities of clients and then they do the math this is called trainer math it's horrible math I train 40 sessions a week I make you know you know 50 bucks an hour I could be making the full session rate 90 bucks an hour look how much money I could be making right even if I train you know 10 less clients I'm still going to make this much money right and then they go off on their own and they fail because they have six months but then they fall off and it's like wait how am I going to replace those people as soon as they get out apart from listen to mine pump how come how can we tell them about that like listen you're going to feel like well either that or let's let's talk about how do you guys have that structures structured I'm interested to hear the scale because what I would do is if I had a trainer who's performing really well in my classes and he's driving a lot of revenue or her driving a lot of revenue to my business and then in addition that they're also private training I would create some sort of a pay scale that structured that encourages them to be good at those things because I'm going to pay you more money over here for being well it's something we've talked about but before we go I want to go back to for a minute you mentioned that trainer that we invest all this time and yeah and something that we've gotten a lot better at and I'm sure you guys can relate to this but if we really paid attention there's some telltale signs along the ways where we kind of could if we really paid attention and we picked those up we could kind of see the direction this guy was going same with the other just a German guy you know we knew there's another train of arts that we had that left like we knew from almost one if we had just listened if we had just trusted me and him are US citizens now by the way so we can tell it's a hard thing to like listen to those signs that you see and say okay let's just cut it off now let's just cut them before we get rid of them and so that's a really really hard thing to do because again we're a gym that needs a lot of trainers so it's like how do we just cut these people off that's what you do if I had a staff and I saw some problems with some potential problems even though they were still doing good in my mind I'm already replacing them with someone else just in case worst case scenario I got another good point and to answer your point Tony what you asked about how do you discourage them from thinking the grass is green around the other side my question to somebody who's thinking about doing that would be well do you have a good following are you really good at marketing are you good at promoting yourself are you on top of your social media and your email outreach and all this kind of shit if you're not then it's not an option and a lot of trainers like what we mentioned back at the beginning aren't great at that kind of stuff they're not marketing type brains they just want to put the time and effort into it exactly and it's going to take a lot of time and energy on the marketing side to be able to get that build and grow and grow to where you were when you were inside the gym we just had an episode recently talking about tech and social media when's it too early to start blah blah blah but you just said something that makes me want to ask you guys is this something you guys taking into consideration when you hire someone's social media presence do you guys look at that? No. You don't? No. Do you think we should? I mean we look at it I look at it and see if the girls or whatever like drinking all the time well do you know an example of your guys' business so I like to always look at like other businesses that are similar to your model that may be using this strategy are you guys familiar with Barry's boot camps? Yeah. So they use that SoulCycle would too I'd imagine right? I don't know enough about SoulCycle to know that I do know Barry's boot camp they are heavily into their trainers social media that's part of your job description is pose and they actually spend time from the leadership side developing that. We've spent a lot of time or Tony spent a lot of time trying to build their skills and knowledge and awareness of how important that side of their jobs and their career is you know we've had speakers come in and say you know you could be on top of your shit with this stuff do this do that giving you like practical tips on how they can grow their following and build their presence and a lot of people a lot of trainers that we deal with they don't really jump on it and see the importance of it they just kind of see it as oh well that's not really me I'm a trainer but if they come on if they come and apply right that's part of their job description so they do this really well some way that you guys can start to kind of implement that now so it's not like totally rocking the boat I know you guys got video guys that are kind of following you around more I would you know schedule him I'd pay him for a day where he's going to on my busiest day of trainers and coaching and he would be walking around taking great shots of my trainers teaching the classes and then he I would upload it into a drop box that all my trainers have access to so now you're handing them good looking high definition pictures of themselves teaching in your facility and you can already if you want to get the next step you can have a guy if you have the funds to do this a little bit of an investment and then you brand it you can put your box and burn logo whatever on it but if it's a high high resolution image of themselves so where this comes from this is part of our strategy so we have guys like yourself who come in and you know part of our teams and we're actually putting together a actual packet for this so real soon here you know fast forward a couple months you guys would come here Taylor would hand you guys a packet and in the packet actually gives you a social media strategy on how to use the photos and the videos I'm about to provide all edited and done for you right and how nice is that right right I don't get a push you and say hey Tony could you please post about me this week we're doing some of that in the academy yeah in the level two academy we do a big thing on social media model and helping trainers how to promote yourself because it is a massive thing but it's so frustrating to make some huge on social media when trainers don't want to do that like I've tried to set them up with our camera guy to get a spotlight videos on them and about the career and about the life pay for it yeah we offer to pay for it I even set the time and the date and then they'll cancel and it's like what the fuck we've got like this many like tons of trainers and they'll not do it it's like yeah have you guys thought of other strategies as far so I look at you know your business and like some things come to mind as far as scale is concerned like you know what we're talking about all here it seems like great strategies for like a physical location and improving on the current status of where your business is have you guys thought of like you know turning this more into like a licensing kind of a thing where you're going to go into other gyms you're going to teach their trainers how to implement your very specific class that you've systematized completely now they can implement that and you know this is a brand that they pay to be a part of that's something we've been speaking about very recently about affiliate because we're doing these academies and everyone's asked us about boxing classes how do you do your class how do you structure stations do you have what do you do so it's like we can do an affiliate and this is something you boys may be able to help us with where we go into a gym so you might have a gym whatever it's called and they might want to put a boxing class in there we can put a boxing burn class in there so it's not a boxing burn gym but this is a affiliate yeah and they appear some monthly fee and then they come and get the trainers I see a lot of opportunity I think it'll be a lot easier to scale like just oh my god and then you want to talk about potential like you know body pump and Taibo and less mills killed it you guys should just go through that yeah yeah so this is something I'd love to talk about because I know you're all smart bastards you should be the helpers speaking of potential speaking of potential I watched the 60 minutes with the CrossFit guy the guy that found it and in that it mentions how he's made the majority of his money from lawsuits from people who've tried to start CrossFit gyms so he's made a shitload of money from the CrossFit franchise but then he's made even more money from suing people who've tried to do CrossFit and it's not part of his friendship so he's like what we're going to do is we're just going to go around the whole world right and if there's a boxing class in that gym we're like is this boxing burn training is this part of the franchise no it's not alright see you in court that's some really good attorney like how do you say that you have specific ownership over how to do a squat with a clean right how do you I don't know how you must have some really good attorney it would be the systems that you guys would do that's what you would do yeah you'd have a but even then I feel like it would be really hard to enforce those I mean clearly it works if he's done it going back to what you said before about the question about if the trainers are performing can you reward them higher so another thing Kev it's absolutely amazing I think it's even better than Kev thinks is the tier system you want to tell me about the tier system how we do that Kev yeah I mean essentially it's just it determines your rate what you make per class and it ranges from I guess we could say the amount anywhere from $18 to $30 a class depending on your tier and then you can make anywhere from 40 to 60% depending on your tier so there's different there's other things involved like once you get to tier 2 there's a $500 bonus once you get to tier 3 there's $1000 bonus just given a little but it's also volatile it can go up and down so it's based on performance in leadership skills but it's also based on your education so your certifications workshops other things you do obviously the education side of it is not going to be it's not going to move up or down too much unless you let your certification expire but it holds you more accountable in the classes and you know as far as you know showing leadership skills and performing and doing what you're supposed to be doing and what's to be expected every quarter we have performance evaluations and we bring them in all the leaders will train will score the trainers they work with the most and again depending on their score they can either go up or they can go down and so it's just kind of something that they can keep in the back of their mind like every quarter I have the opportunity to go up and tier and make more money and with the two things the performance and the education because you could have a very educated trainer who's not performing in classes so he doesn't get the waterfront or you get a guy who's really performing in classes but his education is low so he can always build up that makes sense. It has to be equally weighted like we value education a lot it's super important but we also value that performance very much so we equally weight them and so it's kind of you know smart it's a very similar structure 24 used to do the exact same thing for every certification used to bump up three or three more dollars per hour that you made and then for the amount of hours of clients that you've trained every time you hit a new mark you got a new override bonus so very very similar I think it's a very smart strategy. It's great because you could have a guy who's got a degree in you know physiology or whatever but it doesn't make him valuable to our gym you know whereas a guy who knows the gym inside out knows exactly how to execute a perfect class knows all the members on first name terms but his knowledge is still pretty you know he's still building his knowledge you know that's way more valuable to the how often are you guys holding the certifications like you are in our place how often are those happening? I think we'll have done 12 this year oh wow fantastic yeah and every single one sold out you're kidding me? Yeah we've got three left yours and then two more but yeah they've all sold out we've been to Denver, Vegas started having sold out let's have four more Phoenix next weekend Orlando Orlando we've been all over and yeah I mean it's great the response we're getting is fantastic and the words like spreading we're in with Onnett Onnett's helped promote us a lot as well we've been to their place we certified all the Onnett Academy trainers, all the guys who work down there but yeah I mean it's picking up and like I said because Boxing's getting more and more popular but no one really knows how to teach it correctly so when the search for someone to teach it we and speaking of systems the Academy the certification course it's not just like a one day course like it all is how you teach Boxing it's like we're giving you an actual blueprint and a system so that if you get someone who comes to you and says look I want to learn how to box I want to hit pads it's like okay well here's exactly how you're going to teach that person who's never boxed before every single time you've got an exact science and system you guys are really tackling two mega monsters at one time when you think about it like the building these brick and mortar gyms and operating them with 30 plus trainers and potentially adding more to that also while building this incredible education system and certification system that you guys are building right now each of those are huge businesses by themselves. Yeah a huge project that we're doing now it's been ongoing for like six month is putting the certification course online so people can learn at their own time we're getting people from Australia from India from all around the world wanting to do the certification course now we can do it online so they'll watch videos then they'll submit videos towards like how to wrap behind them and then answer questions on it they'll submit a video at us we'll see yes or no they'll go on the next part of the They have to answer questions as well yeah answer questions and first section they submit videos we give feedback but then after every video we'll have questions Is the online certification the same as the in-person one? Yeah the curriculum is the same Yeah it's exactly the same but obviously in-person is better I feel like you get to meet him Do you guys make do you make it to all of them? Yeah I've been there every single we've all been there every single one of them Three of us teach every live course Oh wow you guys are here I mean it's something that actually speaking of the tier system we have implemented like you reach that elite tier the top tier now you can travel with us for the academies and help us teach them because they've gone through the whole curriculum and they kind of know the system but we also have trainers at the elite level where we can start to send them out and it's just it's fun once you do it a few times it becomes very easy but you also get to travel to different cities you know go out to eat you know everything's paid for us so it's a nice little incentive for them to kind of go Yeah that's really cool Yeah that's another thing for them what might motivate them like yeah you can travel with the academy and I think the next level of being a personal trainer is teaching all the personal trainers what's the feedback have you guys been getting from trainers we've done your certifications in the past we're now just utilizing it Like I said a big one is retaining clients because clients if they've never boxed before they want to learn how to box and then they get good at it and then they want to get better so they want to come back the next day and do it again as well as people earning more money through putting box and programs into their facilities if they're a business owner Not only retention but also you're exposing your exposure to potential clients because now you've opened several more doors to clients like before you said okay this client wants to do personal training, fitness training but they also want to box I can't train that person so now they've increased their exposure to who they can actually work with Well walk us through October 7th here at Mind Pump Studios what does that day look like for somebody who enrolls and comes to this class how do you start the class to walk me all the way through every step the first thing we do is talk about the importance of safety and hand wrapping you need to wrap your clients hands because if you don't wrap your clients hands correctly and you try and teach them boxing they're going to get injured so I'm assuming do you guys provide wraps for everybody too yeah everyone gets a free pair of hand wraps and then we teach them how to wrap hands correctly so your clients don't get injured if your client get injured they're not going to come back and train you're not going to earn the money so we do that then we go over a boxing specific warm up so you're going to make fun of me go ahead it's fine because I know I wasn't a fucking boxer so what you just said right there I don't know how to wrap so I used to make my clients get those gel inserts there's a joke I approve they're not as good as hand wraps you call me an asshole I'm not a trainer anymore but as well when you're wrapping someone's hands that gives you the opportunity to connect with them when you're holding their hand you're wrapping them up it's kind of cool too if I've never fought before and I'm sitting backwards on a chair and you're wrapping me up it gets me hyped just thinking about it so you build that emotional relationship and then they feel like badasses now they've got the wraps on they feel legit and then we go through a boxing specific warm up where Kevner Glen will take them through that then from there we teach them how to box because it's very important that you know how to box before you go ahead and try and teach it it sounds so obvious but nobody else does that yeah you see these trainers they think they know how to hold them in if you ask them why do you step left they've got no idea of the answer so we teach you how to box and then we teach you how to shadow box and tell you the benefits of shadow boxing then we go into how to teach other people who's never boxed before that's the kind of the main thing teaching someone who's never boxed before how to box we've got the system down I was thinking the other day people how to box over 25,000 people in the last five or six years so we again we've figured out the best way to do this and that's what we give them it's like our trade secret really how to teach someone how to box who's never boxed before we kind of did it with Justin when we were here before but we break it down even more was he a good student no no he was he was kev had an ice pack on his shoulder he never told you about that what a lot of people don't realize either is there's also, we were talking about this earlier outside the studio there's a technique to holding pads too a lot of trainers don't know that they think it's just the teaching the boxing but if you've ever held pads for someone and you don't know how to move with it you get hurt you're hurting your wrist and your shoulders skill and timing and technique involves I've hit pads boxing since I was 10 years old for ever like over 20 to 23 years I've hit pads with the best boxing trainers in the world you can think of and I'm not just seeing this, I'm not blown smoke kev is better at holding mitts than anyone no I swear down he is than anyone I've ever trained with before I've worked with the best of the best Olympic trainers and all that and then kev goes over how to hold pads correctly because it's about resistance, height your balance, your stance timing timing is the big thing and kev breaks it down in such a way that makes it easy for you to be able to teach other people how to hold a mitts and like I said it's great when you hear that poppin sound I mean you hit mitts with kev do you see how good it is he made you feel good maybe snap, maybe feel some power there what am I the one without the headphones get them once you get comfortable with that as well then it's like and we talk about this in the level 2 course which is a little bit more advanced but once you get to a certain point there's a whole world of creativity with it all that just kind of opens up just thinking about different combinations and once you start to really understand boxing it just becomes limitless on where you can take it and that's a big thing that we see is you don't have to have been a boxer to be able to teach boxing, you've got to understand it some of the my boxing trainers who got me to be as successful as I was through boxing Bobby Butte, my first boxing trainer he'd never boxed a DNA's life and he coached me to be a European champion then from there I went on to the Olympic World Class Program, I trained for 8 years it was an 8 year training program for the 2008 Olympics the performance director was called Terry Edwards the most successful amateur boxing coach of all time again he'd never boxed a DNA's life but he understood how to box Wow, I did not know that that's fascinating with that being said, we tell people that doesn't mean that you're going to leave here after October 7th to start teaching the Olympians but we give you the tools that you need to go out there and practice and work with to get better and better and start retaining your clients one more thing that we give everyone on the day is access to an online video library because we learn a lot in one day I mean it's impossible to learn to be a great boxing instructor just after one day, you can be good but we give you access to an exclusive video library with everything on that just to remember it too, because I'm sure you learn it there, but you can remember the combos you might be teaching a client and think what did Kevin say about the resistance or the height of the boxing stance or whatever, you go to the video library and it's exactly there and it's good having that after because I know what it's like doing certification courses it's all inspired the day after and you're like oh I'm going to do this all week and then it drips off a little bit but if you've got that online library it's like oh you can keep up on that excitement of it, but not only is it just teaching people to understand boxing fundamentals and understanding how it works but we go into detail about how to coach it as well positive reinforcement and just coaching basics and getting people to speed on that side very very very little I have a little bit, I've hit pads but it's been years and it was for maybe 6 months at the most he's our most athletic one he's got the best 6-part I'm all show no go but it's great to see in the fitness sphere people like you guys succeeding for many reasons number one you guys are great guys but also because there's an integrity behind what you're doing many times in fitness you see people teaching courses or classes or trainers who don't have integrity in their craft and what I like about what you guys are doing is your certification is based on boxing it's not based on workout not that that's a bad thing, that's a great thing because the workout is a side effect but you get the good technique, you get the fundamentals because it's taught by real actual boxers which is that's the big difference correct me if I'm wrong, I think that's the big difference we teach we do, we teach real boxing it's not just a workout we teach real boxing and it goes a long, long way because all these other fitness boxing classes are not doing that I went to one fitness class before and they were teaching us 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 12 I went in that didn't know who I was you were never boxed before and the ed trainer was terrible and I was like wow this is a local place in Santa Monica and I was like wow I remember we used to teach it at when we worked for 24 hour fitness this was 10 years ago they added a boxing class and it was packed and I remember the first time I went and checked it out to see it being taught and I was like I know very little about boxing I've had so I I've held pads for a couple buddies of mine that boxed things here and there for about a year of my life 3-4 times a week I was boxing and training with my buddy but by no means do I know what the fuck I'm doing but I know enough to know when somebody else knows less than me and so I would walk in this class and I was like oh my god this is the trainer now teaching all these people it's not about mechanics it's just about cardio even without the shit technique you'll still get a good work out but if I walk in with Jim and I want a personal trainer and I see Bob in the corner there teaching someone who just looks shit and I see over there I see Glenn in the corner whose client looks really good and I want to do boxing I'm going to go and ask Glenn because he looks like he knows how to box exactly his clients looking good and looking sharp now correct me if I'm wrong because you said even if you have crappy boxing you're going to get a good workout however just like with running people will go run and they'll just be like I just want to sweat and whatever and that's why people hate running by the way they're like no I hate running because you don't know how to run but with boxing besides the fact that you're sweating or whatever isn't learning the technique properly doesn't it give you more longevity as well is it part of the technique rooted in being able to move your body in a way that's optimal yeah definitely and then there's less chance you want to get injured as well there's also a certain level of understanding you got to know that when you're working with somebody they're going to be great boxers I mean you have to progress them and you have to move them forward and make sure they're always learning new things so just understanding that no one's ever going to have perfect form everyone can always have a better jab or better cross whatever that's kind of a theme for us in our classes we want to teach real boxing and real boxing technique but at the same time people are there to have fun and to get a great workout but ultimately it's not a sprint it's a marathon kind of thing so if we have their commitment and we have they have the understanding they're going to come here they're going to get a great workout they're going to have fun they're going to feel better after they'll become good boxers over time and that's what we see them three things like why people come back the number one reason they come back to boxing and burn is because they have fun and they enjoy it the number two reason is it's a great amism workout that's not the number one that's the number two is the learner box now if you try and teach them too much how to box and that might take the fun out of it because like he said they're not going to be perfect so if you stand there for a full hour try and teach them how to perfect the jab it's going to take the fun out of it and they're not going to really want to come back if they're doing one thing if they're doing something like where they're punching with their hands open obviously you got to correct that because they're going to end up getting injured you got to put a stop to things like that immediately but as long as they're not doing anything they're going to really increase their exposure to injury and we're giving them the right techniques we're reinforcing them over and over we're holding them accountable not many people are going to get that right away but eventually knowing we have some time you were punching hard it was alright he was making me sound like I was punching hard I was just going to make that point actually there's a skill there's a skill to making people aren't very good look pretty good I can give you a hands on level we should probably do like a little YouTube clip or something about this you hear that Taylor? I want to do that I want to shoot a video how to make a shitty boxer look good you can use Sal as an example perfect and then I'll go alright you feel good now alright you look good and then I'll show you like how it's like no it's just the training making you look good that's kind of a skill of it totally yeah so let's talk about October 7th here you guys coming you three are coming to teach the class then yeah we'll be here wow that's fantastic how does it work what is the cost you guys are going to have maybe a code yeah we're going to create a code for your listeners for 48 hours after this podcast release we'll give you the code and the intro when we record that I also believe that we could probably do a direct link probably right to a landing page or something where they can probably go straight into so the price of the course, the 1D course 397 but with your code they're going to get it for 297 which is a fucking bomb and then with that they get the CEUs for NASAM, AS, ISSA, AF AF so they get the CEUs then they get access to our online video library they get a certified boxing t-shirt, they get the hand wraps they get the notepad pens the thing is it might sound crazy but we're not doing this to make money to get rich we're doing it well one we love it but we're doing it for the brand as well but we absolutely love doing it and the results that we're seeing we're getting from people, I mean it's great like that's why you say some courses is like a grand on its courses are like $1,100 and we're charging like $300, $400 so our courses are fucking great as well well I think anything that's anything that's going to give you give your clients value is worth investing in, this is definitely one of those things it's fun, it's different and if you look like you know what you're doing and you're holding mitts for someone and you're in a gym it's like a nice little commercial for you and I did say we're not doing it for money but next year we're going to put the prices up we're going to put up $100 so it's going to go to... then it is for money next year this year we'll be 12 times keeping it real 1500 next year we're going to get you hurry up everybody well excellent, well I know you guys did some videos so hopefully that'll be up by the time we air this episode and that'll be up on our channel Mind Pump TV on YouTube and it's always a pleasure talking to you guys man looking forward to October we'll all be around here too so I'm looking forward to that that'll be cool look forward to me and everyone you can go to boxingburnacademy.com excellent, thank you thank you for listening to Mind Pump if your goal is to build and shape your body dramatically improve your health and energy and maximize your overall performance check out our discounted RGB Superbundle at mindpumpmedia.com the RGB Superbundle includes Maths Anabolic, Maths Performance and Maths Aesthetic 9 months of phased expert exercise programming designed by Sal Adam and Justin and you systematically transform the way your body looks, feels and performs with detailed workout blueprints and over 200 videos the RGB Superbundle is like having Sal Adam and Justin as your own personal trainers but at a fraction of the price the RGB Superbundle has a 430 day money back guarantee and you can get it now plus other valuable free resources at mindpumpmedia.com if you enjoy this show please share the love by leaving us a 5 star rating and review on iTunes and by introducing Mind Pump to your friends and family we thank you for your support and until next time, this is Mind Pump