 everyone and welcome back to for the menus the weekly show where we talk about various third-person mobas mainly paragon related But we do have a therial in there this week. We've got some huge updates coming out of fault some of them great some of them I'm just kind of like what the fuck are they doing? Then we have a lot of interesting stuff coming out of overprime They were talking about giving us feedback on surveys They did for their beta and then we got nothing for predecessor and nothing for a therial But I will still have timestamps in the video description below for your a view and pleasure But um, I'm your host the man goose joining me as always is my friend and co-host jelly knees. How you doing jelly? I am fantastic man goose happy to be here excited to talk about all the things honestly both Yeah, positive and negative. I'm excited to talk about both honestly, so but yeah It should be exciting but with us as also always now is the Viking Jedi Welcome Viking. How you doing man? Uh, you know just keeping things lit over here, you know fam um one hunnit Okay, we're all we're all doing weird shit tonight. I like it Let's get started with fault because they had by far The biggest updates let's start with what we kind of already knew because of that buzzfeed leak They are going free to play that will be Yesterday if you're watching this It'll actually be tomorrow for us, but that uh, they are going free to play Finally, and they are changing the name of the game to fault elder orb So it's no longer just fault. It is now fault elder orb Um, and along with that they're going to do a lot more marketing for the game Um, we kind of already covered what free to play means for them and everything last week and and the fault Elder orb. So let's get into some of the other updates they had during that developer stream, which was um Something that a lot of people are kind of iffy about integration with a company called pocket full of quarters If you don't know what pocket full of quarters is it's kind of like a centralized in-game currency thing. So instead of buying premium currency for Several different games you would buy by their core currency And then you could use it in whatever games are partnered with them So you could spend instead of spending 20 dollars on fault And buying a $10 skin and then having $10 left over You could spend $20 of the quarters by a $10 fault skin And then go buy like I don't know $10 fall guys skin or some shit like that But um, a lot of people are very concerned about it because it's very metaverse very very, um Cryptocurrency sort of thing. Uh, there was a lot of Questions about how the quarters get redeemed by the developer We did talk on the fault partner panel with a representative from Pocket full of quarters turns out they can exchange the quarters for us dollars, which is a lot better than what we thought We thought that it was strictly a theorem, which is a blockchain Uh, bait, uh, authenticated currency Cryptocurrency, but uh, oh man, I still don't I still really don't know what to think about this But jelly, what do you think about pocket full of quarters? I mean Now that we know it's optional right there was a concern for me that this was going to be like their Form of currency in game right and I'm glad that it's not I'm glad that it is optional Which alleviates a lot of my fears when it's optional Do what you're gonna do right? I think Them pushing it the way they did is what made people a little weird about it I think it was just a like guys we're we are now very and they'd be very casual about it Right, this is where we we have a partner with pocket full of quarters. Go check it out. No big deal moving on right then just Just move on from it because It made people a lot of people feel weird in their discord and in the comments So and all of those things So but I am a little more indifferent now Um, to me, it's kind of like the like I gave you guys an example of this I can't remember what it's called now kings draft draft draft kings. Yeah And it was a lot like draft kings when I looked into it more and more But I was just like, okay bet on tournaments if you win But there's a little more skill involved because it's your direct performance in these tournaments right, so Okay It's a little iffy, but here's what it is. What about you viking? Yeah, I mean, uh, I think I followed suit with a lot of the community It was like very confused as to what this platform could be. Um Again, since it's not really mandatory I don't really care like if they were gonna force it upon us then obviously I'd have a lot more skin in the game But since it's really just uh, you know something if I think really to me I don't know if a lot of people are gonna go and sign up for it because fault is going into it Um, you know or utilize the the quarter system But anybody who's already on that platform maybe will be You know happy that they can integrate with fault if they end up coming across it So, um, you know that that's fine More players maybe coming from other games seeing another game coming onto the platform that they're already part of But uh, yeah as as for the actual usage of quarters. I mean it didn't appeal to me At all and I mean, I know we all did our research and tried to learn as much of it as we could Um, of course, we're going to encourage you guys who are listening to still do your own research Don't you know just go based off of what we're saying. Please look into it yourself before you sign up Um, because there are there's some stuff on there that I think people would want to read up on but um, yeah Whatever I had a lot of red flags. I had a lot of red flags popping up when they were talking about it but after talking to the representative a lot of that was a lot of my fears were allayed, but Still, I it's not something I'm interested in using so right same I don't care. They they coiled a lot of our fears, but didn't sell us on using it. Yeah, right Uh, they kept comparing it to chucky cheese. My thoughts on that was always even when I went with the chucky cheese Why do I have to buy these tokens? Why can't I just use fucking quarters since it's You know what I mean? Why do I have to buy these quarters from them when I could just buy the premium currency for the game? I want to play by I don't know. Anyway, that's that I don't want to stick stay too long on any one subject tonight because we've got a lot to go over. Um Okay, so what else did they have what oh shit? I'm looking at over a problem. I'm like what? Um Oh, they leaked Iggy and scorch. Um, so That one was not on purpose. That was They weren't telling us who the next hero was going to be they just told us that after Free to play was dropped after a while. They'll be releasing a new hero And then somebody asked about mastery races and bailouts was like, well I mean mastery races will come back when Iggy with it with Iggy and everybody was like, oh So yeah, so Iggy and scorch will be the next hero in fault I think this is going to be a great addition for them. I'm not a big Iggy fan But I know he's one of those heroes. He's one of those heroes that That that's a big draw for people. So if I can get I know you are a fan of Iggy What do you think about him getting added into fault? Yeah, no, I mean, uh, the the leak was really funny I mean, we did our live reaction to it, right and um, we were like, wait Did he just say what we think he said and of course the chat was blowing up There were some clips that popped in so it was obviously, you know a foot and mouth moment, but uh I mean, I think we all kind of expected that it was Iggy anyway Like it's just the fact that they were even like trying to like keep it behind, you know the the silhouette or whatever It's it was a little silly anyway. So I'm fine. Whatever But as far as like Iggy coming into the game in general, I'm excited I I've always kind of thought that Iggy was like, you know the the fun champion that, you know You don't really take serious like, you know, I'm sure that people would flame you if you took it into ranked But if you're a really good Iggy player, you could shut those guys up To me, I kind of look at it like almost like taking like a tourbillon in overwatch You know, it's like he is he going to hard carry takeover games? No But is he really funny and can add something that people aren't expecting? Sure. And so from that perspective, uh, you know, I can't wait to go full chicken, you know You look like tourbillon He is he is uh, one of my favorite overwatch characters for the exact same reason that I like Iggy It's again, it's kind of a meme pick but it can be good in right situations and If people know how to play around him, right? I mean, obviously this is assuming that they keep his kit the exact same as it was in In Paragon, um, so we'll see what that looks like. I would imagine it's going to be close to if not exactly the same but um, it'll be interesting if they pick the, um, the Very early Iggy or the second half of you know, Paragon Iggy, so we'll see either way I'd be happy. I didn't think it was that big of a deal when they swap some stuff around But I wasn't playing nearly as competitive as some some others. So that'll be fun. I'm excited to see him Joey, what do you think? I know you've known about Iggy for Ever in a day I mean, I'm excited. All right. Like Viking said, Iggy's just one of those fun characters, right? When you want to go in game and you want to have a good time like just with your character Uh, it's a lot like clad in league of legends. It's a lot like torbjorn and overwatched, right? There's just certain characters that no matter what you pick them up and you're like, dude I'm having a good time like I just I'm going in there ready to have fun And that's to me that's Iggy and scorch in a nutshell I remember when they came out in Paragon and I was just in there like dude I'm so in like where do I sign I was in Vegas and I loaded Paragon on my laptop just to play Iggy and scorched Uh Loved every moment of them. So I'm excited to have them back for sure Now in the movie that we're showing the old ultimate on Iggy Right. So hopefully that carries forward. I I prefer the old ultimate of Iggy. Um Oh, you know what we The movie came out between the last time we recorded we should probably talk about this fucking movie Do we have to? Yes So one up came out the movie that features a bunch of fault gameplay one thing that's Okay, the movie is cringe as fuck and that surprised absolutely no one who had watched the trailer, but I was surprised at how much of fault gameplay was actually in the movie. I would say about I don't know 20 15% maybe of the movie was actually fault gameplay or fault cinematics Like there was a lot of fucking fault on the screen, which is great for them Even if people didn't like the movie they might Kind of be attracted to that style of game. Yeah, absolutely Um for so I've got I've got two aspects of of the movie's release in terms of fault, of course because it's me Uh, the movie itself like you said cringe just campy as I'll get out like honestly just okay Thank you like we did that I've watched it once I will literally never return to this movie ever again um And but the fault gameplay was nice. Even if the gameplay itself did not necessarily equal fault Like running past her it's and just going straight for the core. That's one shot to kill Um I was surprised to see how much fault was in there and If the game was called knights of the elder orb Honestly, there was a ton pushing people to that game Right, there was there was stuff in like the store that she worked in the game stop equivalent Right, there was a poster for knights of the elder orb with all the characters. There was stuff all over the place Right if the game was called that Brilliant because then it's literally the name that's called out 500 times throughout the movie. That's fine And even them calling it elder orb They they shorthand it to elder orb a couple times, which I think would help as well Since fault has changed their name to fault elder orb Here's the issue that I that I run into and it's partly because I work in marketing If you type in knights of the elder orb on google you get no fault results If you type in elder orb on google the first page has two fault results And that's not good Like that's those are the two names that if someone's like if someone watches the movie and says I want to play this game And they type go in and type on google the name that they've been given Which is elder orb or knights of the elder orb to have two results over the course of two pages Is not enough And part of that is I was telling this to viking the other night It takes seven to 14 days for search engines to kind of re-optimize With changes like that right so that they kind of will repull pages that already exist They'll find new information unless it's blowing up super drastically. It does take time to kind of reorganize those results They changed their name Two days prior to the movie releasing If that which means that none of that information or a lot of that information is not In the system as fault elder orb. It's still in there is just fault And so that the line it'll It will down the line But realistically man goose who's gonna watch this movie in two weeks in two months in a year Right the it was up. I don't know it's on prime When I loaded prime it was up on the top banner on prime, which is great That's a good thing like to get people they'll see like oh something new is on the top banner Let's just look at the trailer whatever it is. That's great But in two weeks, it's not going to be on the top of the banner And I don't realistically see anybody going like through the prime video going like, you know what random gamer girl movie That's the thing i'm going to watch tonight, right like I don't know about that one but so I It would have been greater to me if they Changed their name earlier to get those results polling better in search engines So that when people if they are googling that name that's given in the movie all the time You have better results showing up as such Viking what do you think of the movie? Well, I mean, I know what you thought of it. We watched it together We did watch it together. Um You know, I'm I'm going to try not to be mean about it because there there was A few actual like good moments in the movie as a movie right where we we actually got a good belly laugh out of it but most of it was Cringe to be nice. Okay The acting was meh at best and but it was cool seeing You know, you know the game that we you know have been following for a long time and part of the community You know showcased in some way I I had a hard time mangas was doing a better job than I was I had a really hard time removing the idea that this was supposed to be played like fault is played I couldn't I just like couldn't get over them like jumping into, you know, 2v1 situations and one shotting people Or, you know, larbash off lane. Yeah, larbash off lane sure Okay You just You know the even the announcer, you know always talking about mid lane like it was like mid lane and jungle like That was the quarterback of the team I don't know the ADC is the quarterback of the team The whole like lining up competitive teams so they could talk shit to each other on the other side of the monitor Yeah, that's right it was Just like I the thing that bothers me the most about this is it's like you you're you're taking this and you're making it into a Game oriented tournament oriented like pro scene oriented and it feels like they did like other than having computers It felt like they did no research whatsoever on how esports works and it was just so it was like At least for me it felt even that part was just like insulting to The whole community at large like even if you're like a gamer girl and you're like wanting some representation I totally get that I'm all for supporting it But if you were a gamer person and you saw this movie and you wanted to feel represented in it You would feel just as pissed I think as we are because it just doesn't do that It feels almost insulting to that whole concept and so it's like do you know what then just make a different movie Um, but I know for the fault guys and for the players who got to be featured in it They're probably stoked and I would be stoked if I was in it. Um, and um the cinematics looked really really good I really really enjoyed those parts. I was a Uh, a surprise that I wasn't expecting. I know both me and meg is while we're watching it together. We're like, oh Here we go. Okay. This is different. Like that was pretty cool looking But then we also were like, wait, how come fault doesn't put out cinematics like this? And it's the company that fault uses for their cinematics for their trailers and stuff It just shows that they don't put enough planning in That they have this this company has enough time Because we've seen from this movie that they can do the fucking cinematics and I cut you off jelly. What you're about to say I the fault aspects were not the problem with the movie. If anything the fault aspects were probably the best parts of the movie Yeah, oh, yeah, for sure. And so I and so I kind of want to separate that I don't want people to think faults being related to this is that the whole boat as a whole they're both bad The movie's bad the fault aspects were fine. Yes, and ruby rose is horrid Oh god horrid in this movie. Uh, lily was the best character And maybe the dean Let's move on Please Um So today they were supposed to have which was two days ago if you're watching this now On the premiere they were supposed to have an anniversary stream They didn't really release a whole lot during their normal stream that got canceled I guess um, somebody had some personal issues or something Uh, kind of sad they ended up I think going with easy ed and uh arma and they just kind of went over the patch notes And uh, so that's going to bring us to uh, the real meat and potatoes of tonight kind of Huh the goddamn patch notes So the main there there was some good stuff. There was some good stuff Um, yeah, but that's that's sugar on shit man goose like it is I I just I was just gonna say man goose is always doing like he's trying his best to find like this Like the small nuggets of positivity to inject into Me and jelly are just like come on. Let's just talk about what we're really wanting to talk about here But we're all the times you've called me out for doing that man goose. Here we are But he's not wrong. There is some good stuff. So let's talk about it Uh, okay. Just real quick visual effects added some actual visual effects to some of their tier four skins like The snow morguech has like snow comes out and stuff and like summer fun twin blast actually has scored guns now and A lot of cool stuff like that. Um, they release skins But again, that's not even really a good thing because there's just a bunch of recolors of skins They already have which is kind of like why the fuck is this? I don't know. I mean, it's a patch So yeah, put it in the patch notes I don't even know what else. Let's fucking talk about these loot boxes. They're gonna put goddamn loot boxes into the game Um, I've said this over and over and over again. The strange matter is False biggest enemy and this decision from them Is fucking terrible. I don't care if the loot boxes if you if you don't have to have loot boxes I don't care if stuff is gated by a loot box I don't care how the loot boxes are implemented Putting loot boxes into your game in this day and age is a fucking death sentence for your game People are gonna see that loot box and they're gonna move along Um I don't I don't fucking get it jelly. What would you think of this? Oh, I'm pissed honestly and for a bunch of reasons loot boxes as a premise. I think just have no place anymore Uh, honestly, I'm amazed as many games get away with loot boxes as they still do because it's it's terrible and it's I had this conversation with my girlfriend earlier because I was I was just ranting about it I was like, this is the fucking dumbest decision on the planet for them. Oh, we're flex. Okay But it's they And this goes back to the conversation I've been having about skins right skins or monetization for these games That's the way it goes They are so behind on having skins that their form of monetization instead is to gate things behind loot boxes That instead of creating new skins new original skins that make people actually want to put money into your game You're making loot boxes instead And that drives me absolutely nuts because that's just such a cop out for them. It's ridiculous and from what I understand From what you were telling me jelly because I haven't logged into fault yet, but the The the epic created skins that were never released They're charging premium currency for now for those now, right? It's not premium. It's premium currency or these shards that you get from the loot boxes. Okay, so it's But you cannot spend you cannot spend matter on the epic created skins anymore And that that's dumb like that pisses me off even further, right? It's because for all the credit and like Pat on the back we gave them when they decided to make epic asset skins Earnable just for free by playing the game All of that's out the window I don't and I don't care if you can earn these shards for free with these loot boxes Right if by when I level up I get a box and I open it and I get one of these shards Fine, why can't I spend my matter on these things? Like why did you take that away from us? Why did you remove an aspect of this game for players that have been playing it for so long, right? And I'd be pissed if I was a player who was like on the cusp of getting like one of those 13 000 matter skins Right, they're sitting at 12 in change And then this change comes out and then by the way that 12 in change means jack shit now. Congratulations. Go get loot boxes Right, that's dumb It frustrates the crap out of me and it's a bad decision on their part A jedi what are your thoughts? I mean a lot of them are echoing exactly what you guys are talking about. I I'm I hate loot boxes I hate anytime you have to you know pull on a on a lever and hope that you get something good As I hate it in league of legends and that's probably one of the most popular games that has it. I despise it still as a concept in league of legends It just it just blows my mind that and this is the scary thing Because league is established. It's a huge huge game at this point in the moba space They can kind of get away with doing almost whatever they want, right? but in certain countries especially in europe And there's legislation here in the united states about loot boxes that are going to be coming through Things in large part to you know, um blizzard in their most recent monetization um, but like there's there's a lot of of pushback From a lot of places in in the world and in certain parts of like I said of e.u They won't even allow you to have those in your game in order to be playable and in those areas Yeah, so if you are fault now Maybe that's not like a concern for you because you don't maybe even have a player base there to begin with but it's a it's a It's still a concern And I think it's going to become where it becomes more normalized that governments are going to step in and put the kibosh on this type of monetization So I don't understand The mindset that you have if you're this is because we've talked about this And and I would be blown away if they also internally are not looking at this as their their last real chance to grab on to the market share of of this space because If they aren't doing well in the next month or two, I think that they're done they're good and in this Idea of monetization I feel like hinders their ability to even Capitalize on the momentum that they might be able to get Through going free to play and having epic games and all of that other stuff that we've talked about Which is what we've been telling them they need to do I don't even think console Will save them with these loot boxes in there Because it's going to be a big fuck you to a lot of people and we've talked about that how many fuck yous Is strange matter studios going to do to their current player base and anyone who might be even interested If they find if you download a free-to-play game and you're like, oh, there's loot boxes in here Well, I'm not giving them any of my money. I mean we did it with uh What is the most recent game that we've been playing the one where you get the little freaking split gate? Split gate. None of us were like, oh, let's spend money in the game I mean, I know I joked around by getting their uh battle pass or whatever But for the most part, I was like, yeah, I don't like that It's behind a freaking orb in order for me to be able to get Skins or whatever like I just I don't know it's it's gross. I hate it. I think a lot of people are gonna hate it Um, I'm very interested to see what the comments are right now As it's going through your live chat and what people are gonna say in the comments of this video Um Yeah, over the next month, man, I will be really really interesting Especially with no new major skins coming out for it. So it again, I agree with with james that it's like They're literally just putting another layer between The lack of content that they have and and I'm just I'm really frustrated. I can't even get my word straight It pisses me off so much The the thing too is like we saw that in the overprime Um Beta test that they had the boxes for some reason it feels different to me between fault and overprime have loot boxes I kind of expect it from like A korean company. I did not expect this from strange matter. So I think part of why it feels different as well is that Faults didn't have loot boxes and they're adding loot boxes right over primes first initial closed beta test had loot boxes right there it's a it's you're setting the expectancy of your players from the minute one and and I think the loot boxes in uh overprime Are still predatory and still bad. Yes 100 percent. Um, but They from minute one said we're gonna have loot boxes and then it's on me as a player to accept that right I've now Supported a game for two years And now they're adding loot boxes and that is way worse than just inherently having loot boxes from the from minute one And I guess they're trying to bring in a bunch of new players with free to play and all of that. Yeah, but still And I I've been going through the last minute or so in their shop Trying to get a feel for opening these loot boxes and the fragments and all these things For one thing the shop is not working correctly. It doesn't tell you how many fragments you need for these skins They all say zero which is in typical fault fashion of something not working on a release Uh the opening the orbs. I have no idea I have no idea what How to get these fragments. I opened an orb and I got three skin fragment fragments one for decker one for feng mal one for gideon But the only thing I can seemingly do with them is plug them in To roll another loot box to make sure my loot box gets a little bit better rewards. I can't find a way to redeem them for skin fragments for One of these skins in the shop. It's not I think you have to have three you have to have like three of the one It's like in lead You know how like when you get it you get like a skin shard or whatever And you either unlock it with like the orange essence or whatever or you get a certain amount of them And then you can Whatever like upgrade it or something like that like to me again. It's just exactly what you were talking about before It's another barrier It's a confusing barrier as soon as you start adding in more currencies and adding in like, you know You need this token to unlock this token which then unlocks this thing and then by chance you can unlock with this thing Another thing you're just like You know what? I'm just not gonna do it or whatever ones you do do are gonna be the free ones because that's what I do With league I either buy the skin that I want outright with league now granted The quality of the skins with league tend to be way better I also enjoy the game a lot more and to you know, bring back what man you said about overprime It's the same kind of concept of skins that overprime is putting out or a higher quality and they look really really good So I'm either again same concept either waiting and I'll get lucky with the free Roles that I get because I'm not spending anything on a loot box But or I'll just buy the skin I want outright with in-game money. So like again, I just I don't know the whole thing just puts a sour taste and I hate it I like how I mean the other thing we're thinking about it The other thing with overprime their loot box at least gives you the skin straight up Yeah, yeah, so loot box is here. You don't get the skin straight up. I mean, you're already on the skin It gives you a refund. Yeah, exactly at least they give you the skin straight up Right and then maybe that'll change in the future But from what we've seen in these tests you roll the loot box it opens up and it gives you a skin Full unlock and they've got keys to open the the the boxes Yeah, and then it's not even just loot boxes Like the free loot boxes that they're giving you as part of your account progression There's the premium loot box that has the loot box and the key That you can you have to buy you can buy separately or you can buy them together depending Which means you're gonna get and the reason they sell them separately means you're going to get one and not the other You're going to hurt one over time and I don't know how many times I had So many fucking boxes and no keys I don't know. I've got to look back to I want to look back and see because I could have sworn that they stated that they weren't Going to have loot boxes. I could have sworn that they said that I'm going to have to look through like a bunch of old videos And find out exactly if they said that or not. I don't know but what this really signals to me Is that they have decided? You know, we always talk about You know fishing from that paraglind pond versus the ocean of players out there They've said fuck that pond. We're not catching any of those fish anymore We've already caught all the fish we're going to catch out of that pond now We're going to reach out because there's no way anybody any Para refugee is going to play fault once they see those old boxes with keys The shit that killed paragon in that game The literal only thing they're missing is gating skins behind the loot box And I mean like the only way to get the skin is behind the loot box Um and like the skins that they released after this patch they released five new skins One of them is the epic exclusive. So it's not really technically a release in my mind. Uh, it's also just a recolor of the The astro gideon skin There's a dark side gideon which is also just a recolor of the the astro gideon skin But at least that skin is theirs at least that they created that skin That is a new skin for them the high tech Boris polar bear Boris and toxic countless are all just recolors of existing skins that epic made And again, this goes to my where are the skins? What are we doing? With this that we can't create better skins. We clearly can create skins. We've got the like aztec decker and the Um astro gideon skin that are both really good. Where are the skins? Why if you guys have been planning this for As long as they theoretically have been Why are there not more original skins in this release? Yeah, I mean for me and I don't know if you guys are feeling this but like we've been covering a lot of fault, right? They've been the big thing coming out with you know, all these announcements And the thing that's pissing me off most is that I'm not coming out of any of the announcements feeling good Like I feel like it's just like for for a half of a good announcement of going free to play There's so much more after that this is just left in question marks And then they talk about okay well the major You know patch that we're going to be releasing before free to play is going to have a lot of monetization stuff And then we we speculated a lot about what their monetization could be We we never thought that it would be this and it's like, you know, and I'm again i'm just like Who even talked about the bad things like the the ways that their monetization could go south Yeah, right and even then we didn't even talk about them adding loot boxes, right? No because to us that was such a There was no way they were adding loot boxes into the game Right that that's the that's the bare minimum, right? Like it don't add loot boxes Everything from there is fair game, right and they they even went below that threshold and It's ridiculous. I frankly is and there you guys talked about that there's good things in this patch The updates to the visual effects of the tier fours Are a good thing Right teeny tiny though in terms of in terms of adding something Right, I mean, we've been talking for months bangus about them doing exactly that Right, even even on twin blast making his blast blue would have been at least a step in that right direction There is nothing substantial in this patch that is a positive On the same level as the negative of the monetization changes. Correct. There's not a new character There's not good balance changes. There's no balance changes for one thing There's none. There's no talk of what free to play means There's no talk of any of these other things that they at least could have used to balance out this announcement And and not having a stream and I'm not by any means saying Blaming them for for having a family emergency and taking the stream off. Oh, of course, but it did not help them Right not being able to at least face your community straight up and have a conversation about this hurts. Yeah Yeah I I don't know. I'm just I it makes me I mean because for two years You know, we've had a lot of questions about what they're going to do, you know and how to maintain and how to you know grab more of the market because I just I feel like somebody whoever's making these business decisions I feel like they're just so out of touch I don't understand it like do they don't understand their player base They don't understand the future of their game They don't understand it feels like they're looking at things that were successful for games that are well beyond them Like you can point at like League of Legends and be like well They have loot boxes with keys and they're doing really well CS go had loot boxes with keys They're doing really well, you know, but yeah, you are not CS go You are not League of Legends Like you don't get to say that monetization platform works for them. It will work for us. No You're starting at the bottom bro. You're not up here. You got to work your way up You got to have more than a thousand people playing your game at once Like you don't have that and and this this Will set some people back. They will be like i'm logging in. Oh this game looks kind of cool Oh, it's got loot boxes now i'm out. There will be people a large percentage I don't know but enough that it's you need them You don't want them leaving like it's you need every single person who even looks at your game or downloads your game to Keep it downloaded and playing it because if you don't have that then you're fucked and I think they are I think they're gonna be fucked in a month or two. I think they're not gonna if they hang on it's just going to be until Overprime or predecessor comes out and they're done. It just won't Not that those guys are necessarily longevity going to win either but Those two alone will knock fault out. I think completely unless again and we keep saying this about them Unless come up with something to grab on to the community Make them excited about their game again because to me this last week of fault news that we've been covering makes me 1% excited and that's just because there might be might be a player base for me to be able to log in and play against I feel betrayed and embarrassed by the loot boxes. I Here's what here's what fucking fault has been for me for the last couple years I keep it's like that friend That you know, you know, he's a good dude most of the time. He's a good dude But whenever you bring him to somebody's house, he hits on their wife and pisses in their fridge That's what the fucking fault is You're like, why did you fucking do that, man? I'm trying to get everybody to like you And then but when I show you to everybody you fucking fucking up for yourself You know, that's what fault is. They're that fucking goddamn swamp donkey of a friend Jesus Christ Yeah Well, so liking brings up CSGO and League of Legends the thing that both of those games have even with their key loot box systems Is hundreds of original skins? Yeah and Fault doesn't have that fault doesn't have Even if I was excited to like be like, oh now I can earn more skins for free What more skins do I get to earn the ones? They just took away from me that I could have earned for free anyway And they're for proprietary skins that they've come up with and their proprietary recolors No, that's bullshit Not to mention we don't even know that they're gonna come out looking good I mean, it's been two years and I'm bringing this up again. The witch's hat doesn't fit on her fucking head Been two years since that skin came out Yep Two years I can't Bro, okay, we got to get off these guys. Let's talk about something else. Please Well, they did release a video of old pre alpha clips because we're like it does show how far they've come with their graphics and stuff and I do want to reiterate too that predecessor at overprime like we haven't been able to see them grow and develop with fault You know, they may not have always been great, but we saw everything happen for them and we've seen them grow Over the years, but god damn they just keep shooting themselves in the foot. Let's move on to overprime Uh, so overprime they released this crazy video It was survey results, and it showed what people specifically complained about from the beta And it gave answers if they could answer of what they were going to do to fix it I went through and kind of cherry picked a lot of this stuff so we could talk about it, but um Uh hero respawn timer adjustments People were complaining that it was too long late game and that was making games last too long And they they said that they are positively discussing it and that they will change The hero respawn timers, um, especially towards the late game I didn't Well hard games that go past eight minutes. So I didn't really notice this too much But I don't know what do you guys think? um, you know, I I think um, you know the community we've all talked about it too is that you know, the games either went like Yeah, like 10 to 12 minutes or they went an hour And there was a lot of things that that you know went towards that but absolutely I think the hero respawn timers had a lot to do with that too So again, it's just good that they're acknowledging it and that they've got You know it on the board of something that they're going to Look towards as far as making adjustments like, you know, how dramatic they will be I think we'll have a lot to do with the other changes You know as far as like figuring out how they want the pacing of their game to be Because again, we I know we all talked about this, but it's like you don't want there to be that wild It's either 10 minutes or an hour. We don't you don't want that you want to try and find a happy medium For your game. So um, again another cool thing that they're they're looking into. What about you, jillie? I'm glad they're talking about all of these things. I think hero respawn timers is being mislabeled as the problem Um, because in essence longer respawn timers should mean games end easier. Yeah Because that those two things are actually act against each other. They're not they don't favor one One feeding into the other to me that shows that the minions are the bigger problem again And we've talked about minions before right, but yeah longer death timers should mean the game ends And we had this in the first close beta test their death timers capped out I think it was 60 seconds And that was too short that by the time you got to 25 30 minutes 60 second death timers is not long enough to do anything But then they uncapped it which then meant those longer games went longer or had longer death timers Which feels terrible when you die But it does not mean that that's what's causing the game to go longer right and so I think I think it's being mislabeled I hope they don't change it too too much But I again, I'm just happy that they're acknowledging that this is community feedback Um, here's a big one Instead of starting with all of your skills unlocked You're only going to start with one skill unlocked like a traditional MOBA now jelly, what do you think it is? Hey, I on both sides of this right? I think one of the things that set over prime apart was the fact that you got all basic abilities at level one But it throws their balance for an absolute loop because it's so much harder to balance characters that get their power spike in minute one That people that when they hit level three originally were became online Versus the people that still need level six regardless to get their ultimate up are still behind And so it's a really hard thing and for junglers, especially It changes the clear time and jungle drastically to have all three abilities at minute one versus having to earn them at each camp So I think it is a theoretically good change Um, I just hope their balance adjusts accordingly with it Um, but yeah overall I'm I'm 50 50 on it. What about you viking? Yeah, I mean same 50 50. I think uh, the biggest impact will be for uh, jungle I think that was pretty obvious. Um, so if they're trying to slow down the early game a little bit, um Again, I I'm gonna say almost the same thing with the the first one It's like it's getting like a thing that I'm happy that they're They're addressing because the overall feel the game needs to be more cohesive And if this is the start of one of those things like, okay, so how do we control early game a little bit better? We need also with that, you know, control jungle pathing because it seemed like they were very much aware that Jungle was the real big decider if you had a really aggressive good jungler Games felt very oppressive right from the beginning. Um, so if you can slow down those junglers while still giving them opportunities to path better, you know And so I think that will kind of tie in with the, you know starting with only one skill versus all three But they did also say in this that it was like not Decidedly one way or the other way they were still exploring both Um, but that right now the main idea is that they they feel like starting with one will help kind of Address some of those early game issues where junglers were coming into, you know Lanes at you know minute three instead of maybe minute six or or whatever I think this is gonna mainly affect junglers in support. Absolutely everybody else would just be Fairly whatever. Yeah, I think I am gonna skip to another bullet point on this because it kind of ties in is they're adding new jungle paths and monsters I think that's gonna be interesting as well because so one of the things Starting at level three meant basically as long as I get the buff I can go wherever I want afterwards because I don't have to I don't need the levels before I gank Right, especially on someone like calari or Kayla right that that's that was a huge benefit I can just get the buff run straight into the lane turn invisible dagger dash the whole nine no big deal If they're adding more camps, they're gonna spread out the xp on the camps as well Which so not only are you going to be slightly slower because you only have one ability at level one You also have at least probably sounds like at least one additional camp That you're gonna have to clear which will split the xp to that additional camp Which means that you'll need to take At least one more one extra camp to get to the same point As before now what are they talking about adding more jungle camps or just changing the camps? So they already have unique monsters in every camp So I when they say they're adding monsters to me that's adding another camp I'm talking about instead of the jungle minions instead of the like white cap camp minions They didn't I don't think they have white cap camp minions. Do they yeah, I don't that two and two right On the like on the wall you had red boss and then and then two sets of jungle minions. He had blue buff two sets of jungle minions So I'm thinking I think they're just going to change those jungle minions into different monsters Is what they were saying not necessarily add more camps I swear they were already unique monsters, but maybe not if they weren't then yeah I think they'll update those and move on I can't with all of these games using variations of the there were unique monsters in the white cap. I I have no idea anymore And see I had a whole different thing. I didn't think that they were going to split xp I thought maybe they were going to add in another camp of monsters whatever it is Whether it's white cap or something some variation of it to help Expedite the early game a little bit more for junglers like so not splitting xp But giving them access to more gold and more xp to be able to have an impact But maybe not quite the same impact that they had before so like if you picked an early game You know jungler you might after doing a full clear on one side Be high enough level if you were healthy enough to be able to make a gank at level 2 Or something like that rather than being full level 3 Able to gank anywhere and do all that so so that was my take on it But I guess at this point it's all open during interpretation. We'll just have to see oh, yeah What they do with this who wins We're going to come back and see who wins who was right I think overall My favorite thing about listening to a lot of this is that they understand how important jungle is in a competitive, you know game like It really is it really you know showcases that they are very much like in tune with with the way that The game gets controlled and it's a lot of the times through the that neutral area known as the jungle and so The fact that they're looking at that as like the major point across multiple points You'll see it is is pretty cool. I think it's great All right, so I looked up footage quickly Technically mangroves and I are both right. They are and are not the white cap minions They use those as a base, but then they modified them with like spikes and horns and all these things so they look different But so Again, we're still in the same boat of like whether they updated or not What what does monsters to be added mean question mark? Well, we'll we'll find out later But to blame it on translation I do I'm excited to see what new jungle paths looks like it means Because I know that they've been talking about simplifying the map as a whole So maybe that includes Their pathing as far as jungle is concerned I know that we talked about this in previous videos that like especially around the prime pit That sometimes it can be a little bit confusing. Oh man. I took the long way and how I'm being ganked by this and it's so it's like So we'll see what all that ends up being but pretty cool overall Uh, kind of rolling a lot of the feedback into one There was a lot of feedback about the prime garden guardian They said that they're going to change the how it spawns the health and everything we all knew this was coming Is that that shit was busted? I don't think we really need to even talk about that I did see one they talked about it seemed like the stats I'm not ramping up correctly or the way that it was phrased seemed like the stats And they talked about the stats will change now over time Yeah, and which is one of the fixes that we talked about is that there was no scaling on the on the prime guardian We were getting an in-game prime at eight minutes. Yeah, exactly And so if they do fix scaling that honestly could be enough by itself. Yeah I mean, that's what I said. That's all they need to do I think a lot of people misinterpreted when I said that they when I was talking about changing prime They thought that I meant remove the prime dunk. No, don't remove prime dunk Just no make him scale make him scale. That's all you need to do Let's see prime dunk. So a lot of people are complaining about um, you know picking positions and uh having a draft They said that they will do that with rank mode Um, but quick match will stay the same. You just pick whatever You want and fucking go wherever. So, yeah, that's fine. That's the both worlds. Yeah. Yeah Standard I think at this point I'm going to skip over that one uh separation of solo queue and party queue in the works. I think this is definitely needed Yeah, I mean they were talking themselves how the developers who were actually really really good Gamers were getting their asses kicked by The teams and they were saying that by uh five stacks like us, you know Like we just went in there and dominated games left and right I mean even when we three to four stacked we still fucking dominated but especially when we when we had um osk in the off lane, I would take mid lane We had viking on uh on carry and um Come on base support. Yeah Yeah, we were just tearing shit up Jelly in the jungle. I don't know if I said that Um, you didn't but it's a given I think my only concern with that was uh is obviously just splitting player base like it'll have to really be dependent on um Them having enough players that that even makes sense But if they can make it work even with a lower player base, I think it's fair Like that would be ideal regardless of player base, but I I worry I imagine I imagine the word they'll do it like league does where it prioritizes groups together Right, that's what they mean by solo queue and and a party queue right is prioritizing groups together But as time expands those prioritizations get looser and looser Yeah, I mean it will be most apparent in ranked like that's the only place I really concerned about a quick play I don't care if I get matched up against a five stack as a solo player or You know or duo or something like that, but like I mean it can feel bad by I'm not taking that away But there's not as much on the line other than just playing the game If I get stomped by a five stack in 10 minutes then whatever I just queue back up But in ranked that'll be a big deal if if you get put up against a five stack as like a solo or as a duo Yeah, and as much as I love five stacking, right? Sure. I if they're only going to have one ranked queue I hope that they limit the party limits either two or three Right, I would rather not have five stacks at all Then be able to five then be a solo going in against a five stack because that'll fit agree agreed Um AI matches at are there they're going to include those after early access I think this will be a great addition to their game Um, here's a big one. They will not remove sprint mode They received a lot of feedback negative feedback both negative and positive feedback about sprint mode They've decided internally that they are going to keep it in and they're going to keep it Like it is a lot of people were saying that should be instant But uh, no it's still going to take a little bit to spin up and then you enter sprint mode Um, I like this I think it's kind of one of the hallmarks of over prime now Being the the quick game that it is and I like having that that option available Even if even if the map is tuned so that it doesn't matter or something like I still like Any game where I could make myself go a little bit faster? It makes me feel better as the player It makes me feel like I'm hurrying towards whatever I need to hurry towards Yeah, I mean I me personally I I think it especially fits over prime I mean, it's meant to be a faster-paced game I think it helps with jungle being able to feel like you can move from camp to camp a little bit faster I do like that it's a ramp up and there's a punishment So if you try to do it like, you know, either whether on purpose or accidentally And a team fight or something like that and you get hit it roots you for a second So I think that they have it done well in my opinion I never felt like it was I'm being pooped on because somebody behind me has sprint mode versus just It being what it is. Um, I know that when we were playing Fault I kept hitting thinking I kicked and ramp it up just because we played so much over prime and it felt the same So I was like, wait, why am I not going in this sprint mode? Um, so I think it's fine. I think it just makes it makes you feel like as the player Like you have a little bit more control over your own like pacing and in the map and in the game Um, and so I think proper use of it is still good and fun So, um that and uh, I think and this kind of goes along with it They're keeping jump as well. So that's another one that I thought was really cool. So they're not getting rid of that. Um, so And, um You'll be able to rebind all of your keys. This is a problem that I had and there's definitely feedback that I gave them I need to be able to Rebind everything. So I think that that's just giving the player agencies are just always a good thing There's nothing to be bad there really um Back in system to increase the time it takes to add paragon heroes Or decrease the time I should say it takes to add paragon heroes. So they're gonna be adding paragon heroes more faster now more faster More faster. That's the technical term. Yep And uh, but which is obviously a great thing, but they still have their uh, their own Overprime specific heroes coming and then um to remind everyone I mean they said originally in that interview a couple months ago A paragon hero a month and then an original every three And I think if they can do that faster great, they even still stick to that. I think that's still good I think they should still stick to that even if they can go faster Yeah, I was gonna say I think the pacing of that seems to me good. Um, I mean even like Super good games like, you know, riot only do a new character every maybe Three to four months. Yeah, like so once a quarter or something like that I think you want to have that spacing in between just so that way you understand your the balance I think if you're releasing too many, you know characters too quickly, it can start to throw the ecosystem of your game You know to where people are like wait, so the new player the new character's out Is it the most op do I have to be playing this or whatever? So I think that the well It's great to say that you know from a back end perspective that they can throw the The champions in there, obviously, I hope that they're paying attention to The releasing and whether or not it's healthy for the the game Especially when you start thinking about ranked and competitive and all that stuff and how that can have an impact because it does usually So We'll see they seem to be really open to feedback So even if they are going that fast and people like hey, whoa, whoa We can't get a feel for our meta when you're throwing champions as quickly at us Maybe they'll adjust or they won't and they'll just it'll just be crazy and it is what it is because that's over prime And joe you just added this one in a cast settings to come after early access and that yeah, that's definitely something I've complained about Yep 100 a predecessor and over prime both drive me nuts With that because I'm just like I just want to throw things faster like come on Yeah, I don't want to have to confirm my ability cast please Yeah, so I can't wait for that one. That one's a big one for me Uh one of them that wasn't on here, but I'll go ahead break it up because it cracked me up so bad Feedback, um, some people said not enough towers. Some people said there were too many towers He's out there like oh man This one tower then inhibitor then core. This is way too much. You need to get rid of one of the inhibitors or something Who said like enough people had to say that for them to bring it up? Yeah, that's Something oh, we talked about it before But and watching the video I didn't see them talk about it was the minions and that surprised me And I think it's one of those things that maybe we're just better gamers So we know that minions are not working correctly, right? Um But it makes me curious where they're if they're doing something on that But there wasn't enough feedback to include it in the video If they're just not doing something on it what we're that we're minions fall in all of this I don't know either maybe yeah, I because it seemed like they had like a lot that you know What I liked about this video and if you guys haven't watched it, please go and watch it. It's it's like seven minutes It's not going to take up your whole day or anything like that But it was cool that they showed like how much feedback they got from which regions, you know Like that was that was actually really interesting and it surprised me sometimes like where this feedback was coming from and at what volume Um, so like from that perspective, but yeah, it's again That's like the one thing I feel like we've harped on about overprime so much Well, at least me and jelly have because I think it means so much to us is that the minions don't seem to Do what we want them to do And and I mentioned this before I think when me and man goose did our own video of it was that if that's just How their system is going to work that minions into themselves are not going to be Very important other than just a way to get money and get xp And then they're going to have other aspects of the game be the strategic part That's fine. I guess as long as they get that other stuff Right, you know, it would be cool from my perspective to be able to have the ability to make minions mean something But again, if we can do some if we do other stuff that ends games without You know setting up slow pushes and doing all that stuff with minions. It is what it is I just want to know that that's This is how this game is it we're just not worried about minions the same way That almost every other mobile is and that's not necessarily a bad thing Um, because if you look at like heroes of the storm while minions are a thing You definitely you definitely rarely were using minions to set up like a big push and that's how you won games It was always some other objective that you had to do on the map to to win the game and You know what I mean though like it was You shipped xp you shared gold it was like yes It's not like it was unimportant But it just wasn't the main focus of how you won the games was through necessarily minion plays whereas like with games like league You can absolutely control and dominate a game by having really good wave control. And so, um, it again It can be a A good thing maybe if they don't do it I don't know it just really depends on how they fix all this other stuff So, um, but one final thing because I think we're probably about ready to move off of over prime I just want to reiterate that like I just love their constant amount of feedback and information that they're giving to us Like I think I've said this about over prime every single time Not that I think over prime is the best game ever and it's going to be the best game when it comes out I think I just enjoy their feedback. I enjoy the fact that they're listening and that you know When they give us stuff they give us something that's got some weight to it It's got a little bit of meat on the bones. Um, there's still plenty that they're keeping behind Like we still don't know entirely how their monetization is going to work We don't know when they're going into early access all that fun stuff But the stuff that they release feels good going through it. Like I've never so far at least I haven't felt like any stuff that's come out of over prime. I'm like you motherfuckers Like, you know, I've always been like, oh, okay. That's interesting. Oh, okay. Nice. Oh, that's kind of cool or whatever and I don't know I kind of I want to see some of this from the other guys Like, you know what I mean? It's like almost a stark contrast between how we felt about fall Like this one is just hey solid good information. Can't wait to see how it's utilized Yeah, so And I want more from pred as in general because those guys like seem to like never put anything out so We've done it. We've officially shifted him off of the ethereal never puts anything out to pred never puts anything That was your whole goal last week It was but you know what though like I mean, I obviously I mean in jelly talk a lot off stream and and we you know I get why ethereal can't release as much. They're not into the same position that a lot of these other companies are They're not getting 20 million dollars like predecessor is or whatever, you know what I mean at least not yet Maybe that's something that's coming But you know, so it's like yeah getting any kind of new information from ethereal is always exciting and fun Because I think that the game has like it's just the way that they're approaching building that game Is so different than it feels like these other games are so it's like really cool when we get to hear something Predecessor over prime fault. They're all like again the paris on they're kind of falling in line with like, okay So what is going to separate you and make you successful where paragon failed? And so it's like we kind of have this expectation versus results thing It's kind of always playing as a yin and yang between us whereas with ethereal It's just like what what are they doing one of those crazy kids over there doing what they're weird three lanes and you know Myths that can fly and other censored champions that are yet to be announced and talked about but you know like it's Yeah, absolutely. I think yeah Like so I'll end on like one final note for all of them But it mainly pertains to fault and over prime for this week But I think it does apply to ethereal and predecessor as well Get your communities hyped about the right things and don't false hype your community around the wrong things Um, we talked viking and I we were talking off stream and we talked about the live stream from Fault earlier this week and how there was a lot of information there But it was all delivered in a way that it was just kind of One note for lack of a better way to put it monotone. Yeah, just here's the information Be very casual about it. There was no like Getting your community jazzed about free to play. There was no like you were even when there was a faff about Iggy and scorch being released, right Jazz it up at that point. It's out. Just do it. Just commit to it, right Get your community engaged and and excited for this information about the right information for one thing um Like the most I went back and rewatched the fault stream the most excited I felt the devs were talking about anything was about this monetization overhaul And this is what we got and that to me is You focused on the wrong things you you drove your community to the wrong aspects of the information Whereas with overprime they released a stat video About like this information But they have put it in the right light to make you Excited to watch it or read it if you want to be excited about it And if you're not then not you're not disappointed you're not Like it's they've done a great job of placing these things where the excitement needs to be Um, and I applaud them for that. I mean, but like I said, it applies to all of them, right? Put the right amount of enthusiasm behind the right announcements Don't try and make bad announcements more exciting with enthusiasm because that's not the way to play this it's it's just riskier than any of these companies really should be playing with on doing that kind of stuff Yep, uh, but that I think is probably going to close it out for this week Like I said, it was mainly fault and overprime Centered, but uh, that's not our fault. Don't blame me that there's no pred Updates don't blame I mean blame jelly that there's no ethereal updates. I'm blaming you man goose play man goose There's no ethereal news. That's it But yeah, if you want to check out jelly knees twitch and youtube I'll have them linked in the uh description below and if you want to check out biking jedi's Twitter I'll have that linked in the description below. How do you use twitter jedi? Like you talk a lot like how do you How do you deal with Utilize it. What do you mean? Like how do you how do you deal with twitter limiting? How much you say? Yeah, you know, it's uh, it's something I've been doing Well, actually, I don't really tweet that much anymore, but I used to tweet a lot It did drive me crazy That I would have to like actually like have like a whole thing And like, oh man, how he finds his balance, right? It was tough The conversation he talks too much and twitter he has to limit it to 240 characters, right? So they're There's got to see saw that's true Maybe maybe for some of these segments, you've got to like put me on a word limit or something like that So I don't over talk. I don't know. I'm gonna create a Twitter box for you in the google She the google doc. There you go. That's 240 characters. Sum it up Oh boy. Yeah, no, uh I do want to say something really quickly because I think last time we we left off With predecessor like on like again a sour like bad note or whatever I wanted to be said to the pred fans. We are excited that they have 20 million dollars Like it is a overall good thing. Okay. We just didn't like the way they announced it In a way that made it seem like it was like a cool community thing when it was a business thing Which is again a good thing Hopefully Delivery matters. Yeah, that was all it is. So I'm excited to see what predecessor does with their 20 million dollars Hopefully it's not looking fucking boxes. That's what I hope Well, thanks for thanks for coming out everybody if you're hanging out in the uh in the chat I appreciate it if you're watching this is a video. I also Appreciate it, but that is going to be the four of the millions crew setting off you guys. Have a good one man Goose Up to channel members. I blood hunter jelly knees meow mix for men stunt raven and blastoise king