 Ha ha got here. We are Spider-man Yeah, we didn't let me change it again. It's doing that thing Jay. Oh, I hit that We know does that mean we're not live yet quite yet People gonna miss out on my singing. Well, no, this will come up in the re-upload. You're okay Well, why would anyone ever watch it live if they're gonna miss out on the goodness that is here. Yeah, I know right The fucking alright. We just I need actually like two minutes to solve It's not right. I'm I saw I'm gonna submit some form of complaint to HR had enough HR don't give a fuck about Ever drew with you to you tubes like fuck them Fuck you tubes. Yeah, we got whatever it is. We have did you guys see that thing? Nick a kado avocado was like edited a little video Into saying he distrusts the Holocaust ever happened or something and it's the most obvious thing ever where he's chopped up And then YouTube will like we're gonna look into this like Six million calories died in the Holocaust That's a small meal for any regular you I don't know I'm mixing up my necks. Yeah, I'm trying to get them references It'll Bob. All right thumbnail correct now Bob's not Yeah, for some reason if I if I try and change the thumbnail through a different window it works, but not like the main window. It's really weird Hell yeah, these are virtual dumplings. Oh finally why is there a bit more and after for virtual dumplings like What is the process here? And One is less colorful and the other one is more colorful If you say rags name a colorful food I go chicken dumpling rags if you okay I'm gonna not gonna lie rags if you ever try to colorize dumpling because they are delicious I've never tried to colorize dumpling. I've tried to digest them and succeeded Oh my god dumplings twenty twenty one color eyes And When everything works, isn't it wonderful? Yeah first try no problem. Oh no entertaining when things fail Wow Well that explains your channel Yeah, that's why I keep the mistakes in that's you know Hello You know You're a bad person in a hateful bigot we're all here with spot as well on screen look at him Jay, you'll appreciate it. Oh, I want to see him. I want to see him. I'm not gonna stream open It's not new but it's amazing. All right, so that's good enough very good Guys, let me see him. Oh There he is. Oh, I love him look at him he moves There he is Oh, he jumps. Yes, or of his jump makes the presence on the other side boop The secret of his job with great jump comes great responsibility Did you see the 9-11 EFAP? What 9-11 EFAP cover that someone put in the subreddit where the pause was the twin towers? I think so every promo pause said never forget That seems appropriate Which of the towers was your favorite The left one Cuz I don't I just don't know I never I never really thought of it They're always they're always grouped together you never hear you never hear about them Individually it's probably because of that tragedy, but you only hear about them together It's never like this particular Tower of the twin towers, you know, they're always they're like Sam and Eric from Lord of the Flies I Like the one that last longer so that's spider-man movie, huh? The twin towers in one of the like the promotional materials for spider-man to Spider-man one, but then yeah, the movie actually came out in 2002. Yeah to cut it out Parents because it was he was supposed to web up like as some criminals between the twin towers and then it would be the big reveal Like yeah, he's in the full costume only he could have stopped those criminals at the twin towers Many lives just webs off the plane You know what the twin towers should have like they should have done the Wonder Woman thing and they winked at the camera at the end Of the movie in the post-credits scene That's not how those work so I'm just gonna redirect us once again. We're on the spider-man movie. We're gonna talk about it's gonna be great We're gonna have to start up Suda rather than later because we've got a bazillion people at a whole big Chungus movie as well as referencing all a bunch of other movies it gets into and We've got Shut the fuck up. We got someone here. He's never been here before. How about that a new guest? Oh, I haven't done that in a while. Wonderful It's good to be here. He's alvin the chipmunk Well, what's up with that? What's up with that? Yeah, everybody chooses their own, you know, like Jay Longbow's got like Judge Dredd. I never really found out why that was a thing Why alvin the chipmunk My sorry about the ejaculation there. What what is what's the reason for your and for the chipmunk Alvin the chipmunk, just propaganda for the best Christmas movie of all time I want to chipmunks three The mongering chipwrecked chipwrecked. Oh, it's chipwrecked Christmas. No, that's the first one Yeah, which one is the squeak wool? Is that too? That's the second one. What do you think it is, right? I don't fucking know No, because we have matrix revolutions we have matrix resurrections and I don't know and I think that there I don't know which one's the new one. It's one of them. New one's reloaded. There you go It makes me want to re Oh, sorry. Now, hey, why a long run? Why are you Judge Dredd with us? Shit, I don't fucking know I like Judge Dredd. That's pretty cool. Yeah, that's pretty great. Yeah, that's pretty true Yeah, that's that's that's really the one that got me into it unironically The first one I uh liked ironically was the this uh, that's just a lone movie. No, I love that film That's what we go to watch three of our movies. Uh, that's a movie Dread 3d was the first movie I watched in 3d and it was pretty good. Hmm Everyone's a sequel. Holy shit. I saw a Netflix tv show. He'll be interested to get rated into the mcu I love it when established properties are made into Netflix tv shows. I can't hear anything. My headphones stop working. Yay I saw the rise of skywalker in 3d accidentally bought a 3d ticket for that shit when it came out I'm so dimension of rise in skywalker If they don't know which way is up in 2d, they sure as hell don't know which way is up in 3d. There's so many extra options How did it feel to experience cringe in three dimensions? Um, I don't I don't think that movie. I don't I don't know if that movie's like cringe Maybe in a medicine, but I I didn't cringe at the movie. I was just like sad and I laughed at it Ray shadow legends Yeah, I remember not being sad. I remember being happy because it was just I remember when I came to the theater and watched my It was funny. It was funny. It was such a sad attempt If I wanted to take it seriously, I think it would have been cringe Yeah, probably um Anyway, what was from like if you if you expect like you never cringe when you expect something to be cringe You're just like, yep, that's what I wanted. That's not true at all I watch cringe compilation sometimes and I expect to cringe and boy do I No, I never cringe at cringe compilations because I'm not weak You know, it gets me. It's the first suits the ones in the first suits are always the cringiest He walks. Well, then you're not invited to my birthday party. Oh, are you having a first suit birthday party? I was born in Because you're a bad person Is it a first day party? First day suit, yeah Um, so the easy way for me to make all this go smoothly is to simply be like new guy Alvin chick mung guy. His name is dr. Skipper Um, and welcome to efap for the first time you do, um What what what even would you describe the genre you're a part of on youtube? Is it commentary or is it something else? Um, oh, I guess hello and um, hello. Hi. I guess a mix of just variety things I guess I bounce between whatever I really want to do Well, no fair enough because I've seen a couple your ice big ones as well. Those were uh Fun to make I assume You get lots of iceberg ones Yeah, you know like the the thing that the ice big of a thing is like the things everyone knows Then you go layer down things less people know until you get to the bone with the ice big Oh, oh most of it's hidden behind underneath the surface that kind of All right, okay the depths where it's like, did you know this big secret that like three people found out about and then you're like, whoa No I didn't um Yeah, I still want to turn chat. Uh, stop making the eyes move. They're kind of creepy. That's fine though You know, it's fine. We have all kinds of different things happening Here and we accept all kinds of people even ones with creepy eyes. Wonderful Uh What uh, wait, I guess because the way we'll we'll do this because uh nice tabby one by the way is To do it one at a time I guess we'll just do the classic left to right with this one and starting with our brand new guests If you want to tell us in you know within like a like a two minute block at most What what did you think of? Sponderman no way home the movie Uh from disney's marvels avengers no, um I guess overall it was a fun experience to watch but I still think there's like some issues of explaining things um, there's a lot of Stuff that clearly was kind of made just to make things move on and some things that were kind of skimmed um, uh Like um, the whole intro like the mysterious plot thingy of um, you know, oh, he's revealed I guess Like there wasn't even a court case really. It's kind of just at the table of like, oh, yeah You're free. You're free to go I just kind of moved on I was like, okay Uh, there was a couple of that in the movie though. I felt like some things are kind of rushed to progress it but Overall it was pretty fun Very well, I guess I guess this continues it'll go more into details of certain Like I'm I'm guessing this is going to be like a 10 hour longer. Oh, god individual For any one statement. So this this is yeah, this is just the intro of it I guess it's going to get complicated and more in depth. I guarantee you for every one statement you make someone here is frowning like that's not true I frown already. Yeah, you see jay's already frowning. I'm pretty sure fringy's already frowned How does how does spider-man no way home relate quality wise to the alvin and the chipmunks franchise? Oh, I'm not even comparable Not one hula hoop in the film Oh, no, nothing hula hoops Oh, what what if I showed you the scene where there is a hula hoop would that change your mind? What if this hula hoop? Desperately scrubbing through the film looking at the extras There's a hula hoop to let you see and you're like, this is this is what it needed Can it be any hoop? Can it be something that could be used as a hula hoop realistically? You know this hula wing there's hula in any hoop make it a hula hoop Yeah, it's just the principle the hula hoop is yeah something Is that going around? To hula hoop? Yeah, to hula hoop. Is that is that how that works linguistically or is it just I've never questioned it, but I'm ready to accept it on whim Like I've never heard anyone just because hulaing is like it feels pretty unnatural like to just conjugate that verb It is a have you seen people hula hoops? It's very unnatural or is that a different thing? Well conjugate would be like ah, I am I am ease us ease, you know like insular insularum That sort of thing. Yeah, we don't really do that in English. That's true. We don't not as much ever I'm sure there are some words maybe somewhere It's gonna be a long night Greenman, what did you think? What's your blib? I really liked it um And I'm with one exception uh very very very happy with the character writing Um, I feel like the plot Is uh, not gonna hold up well under closer inspection Because even just sitting around thinking about it and having conversations about it. It's like oh, I wonder Um, but in terms of character payoffs I'm quite happy if this were the end for mcu spidey I wouldn't be unhappy at all because it feels like What we have now is basically a completed like origin trilogy about how A kid who got spider powers Basically had the lessons of like responsibility instilled in him over the course of several films um And then like finally like hammered home and reinforced here I I really really enjoyed this movie. I like a lot Sweet Um indigo gaming. What do you reckon? Uh interesting. Yeah, so I alluded to this a little bit over at the mtu earlier I felt like the film like to use a racing analogy I felt like the film basically tripped and broke its neck in like the first act But somehow like almost When won first place by the end of the end of the movie. It's not perfect for sure It's got some like the premise. I think is the biggest problem like the setup of the of the entire Story is the biggest problem, but I think there were some good character moments and I was Expecting it to be like a cringe fest. There definitely was like a lot of meme like 20 2016 meme references and stuff from the various characters and the morality was pretty weird in terms of Weighing the multiverse the fate of the multiverse versus a couple villains. It's a very weird decision to making there but Weirdly enough. I think that Andrew Garfield kind of stole the movie and that's probably a hot take But I thought Andrew Garfield did a fantastic job in the movie and there was some pretty good payoffs Not not the payoffs that I expected to work some of the payoffs. I thought were kind of Fumbled like with Aunt May and whatnot, but Uh, yeah, Andrew Garfield did great for most of it kind of became a meme toward the end, but um, otherwise Yeah, very very very very flawed premise some really really rough character issues at the beginning, but It was enjoyable. I had a lot of fun despite some pretty staggering plot issues, but I I think Again closer inspection may prove me otherwise, but I think that uh main peter parker marvel mc peter parker kind of redeems himself toward the end But again, we'll probably have a lot of discussion about that. But yeah, very flawed beginning pretty strong finish I guess so Alrighty Jay of house axi. What is it that you think? I like how sexy Oh, thank you so I think that um In terms of plot issues most of them come into in the form of setting up the actual story that they want Like they really they really like fuck with magic and like break the world to engineer this story happening But once it's in motion, most of the things that happen within the actual story itself I think are pretty good In terms of plot beats and character at least if there are major issues within the course of the story I haven't found them yet um And in terms of character, I think everyone's very solid except for dr. Strange Uh these I think the start film also spends exactly uh the time it spends time on what it needs to spend time on uh, really There there are some other places that could have been more fleshed out But I don't think they're really important to telling the story that it is telling Very well, um Jay long bone next up. What do you think? It's kind of shitty to me I was never really I was it I was never really on board with um MCU spider-man to begin with so it was just uh I my my Expectations were low like to be fair This is better than the other two than the other two spider-man movies in my opinion At least they give You know they give spider-man you know MCU spider-man more to do They I like the how they strip him down of everything I did not like About him by the end of the film I actually enjoyed that that was that was that was one of the things I really liked about it Like okay, you did something with with the garbage Like the previous hour and 30 minutes like you did you did something with it and you reinvented it and now you can actually improve fine, that's good, but then um The first 30 minutes and I was on twitter like talking shit about this the first 30 minutes is to set up the rest of the movie is just complete shit and it The way peter just is Dumb to further the plot and the way steven strange is dumb Just to further the plot. I wasn't with that that was Like do you think the people watching this film are fucking children? Like we know what when something is stupid We know what we're looking at is like it's not it's not good. That's what are you doing stop? Like it doesn't work Steven's right. Steven is strange is trying to do this this the spell For peter Which they don't workshop before he starts by the way, they don't workshop it They just go right into it and peter keeps throwing shit at the spell like oh and keeps talking even after steven strange sells them Shut the fuck up. I'm trying to do the spell shut up shut up and he just keeps talking and then Oh god, I can't explain it like after that He says well, you know, this sucks. Well, we'll fix it You know as long as you exhausted every option to get into college We should you know, I understand why you came to me and then and then peter says Oh I didn't Like there was this whole thing where he could go to the mit people and plead his case and blah blah blah And he somehow just didn't know like college is the most important thing to this kid intelligent kid Love science and all that we established that And he does not does not take the opportunity to Track down these mit people and plead it plead this case. That's the only he didn't he just went straight from Getting rejected to do like oh now I need a wizard to help me. This is because this is so dire My life is so dire I've I died for five years But like this is the worst thing that's ever fucking happened to me and I need a wizard to help me out This is bullshit. I didn't like it. I didn't like this movie No, it seems there'll be plenty to talk about. I guess I'm dax. Jesus Christ I adore this movie. I thought it was fantastic. I enjoyed the fuck out of it Uh, there's plenty of problems and obviously he has been highlighted so far by basically everybody doctor strange is my biggest criticism for the whole movie um, but I think the we've got once again following in line with the other two in the trilogy we've got the complications of of a child superhero trying to Solve his problems and eventually causing things to get even worse and learning a lot from those experiences, but The through line carrying him from homecoming well arguably from civil war all the way up to um No way home as far as I'm concerned. It's complete and he is He's probably the strongest built character now in the MCU and I would happily I already know that plenty of people have huge issue with that. That's totally fine. I'll argue it Hey, if everyone starts shout out, it'll be totally unfair. Gosh So, um as for the individual pieces in the plot I'm more than ready to start talking about whether or not these are actually Stupid things or not because I'll concede on plenty of them But I'll also defend the shit out of plenty of decisions a lot of them make Um I have done several times over the past few days, but none lie if this is the first time we're going to have all this fun um The second half was just payoff city with with variables in play that are actually pretty hard to nail and I feel like I'm just going to say John Watts for lack of knowing everybody involved nailed it um With all of these different characters all these different set pieces all these are from uh people in places and dynamics all Involved you manage to clash them together and create what I think is a really respectful Uh iteration of not only MCU Spidey, but basically Everything that's been involved instead of being more specific right now Um, and I was very satisfied that ending. That's my Easily my favorite ending for a spider-man movie ever uh, peter again. We were already in spoilers I think everyone should probably figure that out by now but um He's the spider-man that gave up absolutely everything in order to for the will to be a better place And for the people he loves to be safe. He is uh quintessential at this point as far as I'm concerned Um, yeah big fan of this movie Uh nice and flawed can't wait to talk about all those things Metal go right ahead. That's me. Hello. Uh, yeah, I really like this movie as well. Um As I already said the second half payoff city, that's what I thought about it as well Things are a really good job with that, uh, but yeah plenty of questions and things to talk about especially I think in in in the universe in the MCU Like everything that's happened so far considering that I don't know how everything that's going to work out like this How it did but I guess that's what we're gonna talk about, huh? So that I cut out I um, I'm sorry. You're just going I got confused Okay, I thought I cut out. Okay, uh, but yeah, I think the character work is pretty darn excellent Uh, except the the exceptions that have already been been said, uh And just I think that's that just to keep it short. We'll have plenty to talk about Alrighty, uh, well mr. Rags next up. It's up to me This is my favorite spider-man movie that I've seen I was thoroughly impressed I enjoyed the movie immensely It does so many things right and I I feel like there's a huge weight Of concern that's been dropped off of my my little shoulders Because we've seen spider-man trilogies get fumbled in the end or not even make it to the end of a trilogy before so Seeing this End as good as it did was legitimately satisfying and I really really love this movie It does it does so many things excellently when it comes to peter and the respect that it shows to the other You know spider-man out there Um I really love the the ending. I adore this, uh, peter as a character I would probably agree with um moller to say he's the strongest written character Through and through when you take everything and put it all together Um Super super pleased with this movie enjoyed it immensely It's definitely got a lot of problems with plot. No doubt dr. Strange being the the sore one that sticks out pretty Obviously and clearly to everyone here for really good reasons um The the terrible price that they paid for a lot of the payoffs at least those payoffs are really really excellent um and Really really like it good stuff And finally meme repository. What did you think? Well, I had an absolute blast Watching this film. Um, it was it was interesting because um when I was I was in the film I was when I was watching in the theater. I was just having just the time of my life and I almost just had to keep track of I I was I was I would only turn on the brain every couple of Every every few minutes just to see how the plot was holding up and I think There are definitely plenty of plot and world building issues. Um, I've kind of gone back and forth on a few of them just as I've thought about it more but just as far as like the characters and my Just enjoyment and just the um Everything that um all the payoffs in this film. I just um, I was just I was smiling ear to ear. Um, just throughout it was Uh, it was a fucking great time of a film and um, I've I've kept a good track of um, I've tried to keep a good eye on Like everything that doesn't work as well because I think um, I think there's a lot of stuff that doesn't add up as far as the plot and the world building goes like especially with the multiverse and the all the doctor strange stuff but man, it was Just it was not only cool to see all of these characters return But it was good to see them return in proper form because I'm so used to just bringing back characters from these older Movies and then they're not actually the same characters. They're actually something completely different. But this one Not only brought them back. They had a I would say reverence for For what was done before and they really just hit you with the payoffs and It's funny Mollie mentioned the ending because I think the very first note I have in my good section is The somber ending was very well done. And then I um, I think I later on put this Peter as easily the one that has suffered the the greatest loss um in the out of all the live action spider-man, and I think this has just been such a fantastically done film I um, I I think One of my one of my notes is that I just I I would have easily watched like a three to four hour version of this with Just what they've already done but even more even more detail even more Expansion on the character work that they've done, but I've just I am That with that said I'm still incredibly pleased um with what we got and I um Yeah, I'm looking forward to going through it. Um, I there's a lot. I've got a kind of split up my notes into Kind of uh, what are what are my legitimate criticisms? So the measurable more objective stuff and then there's like more subjective stuff that I Would have liked a bit more of and then there's like I kind of split up my praise into the same So there's the stuff that I really like Almost no subjective level and then there's the stuff that I think is just really well done on a script level and uh There's a lot of there's a lot of like really neat like oh my god There's that character and that character. Oh, there's that cameo there and then there's other stuff like oh But I would have liked to have seen that and that but it's not necessarily objective and then there's it was I think going out. I was just like Man, this is going to be a web to untangle Because there's like separating my feelings from what's actually happening because feelings wise. This just hit me really really hard So I'm excited to to go through this Oh, and yeah worth clarifying. Nobody's given any numbers yet chat calm down. You're fine. Yeah Yeah, please do you're gonna hear much more hot takes than these For right. I do like how very chat is right now though. It's plenty. There's a lot of anger already It's like oh beautiful Like that. We're not all in agreement either. I like we have a Yeah, fight fight fight. It's all good. Yeah, we'll fight. You'll fight everyone will fight. Is this movie Good old shit. We'll find out Is there anything else anyone wants to say before because I'm essentially just gonna act as like an anchor of Describing the scene an event and then anyone who wants to say anything about it can then go from there You know and we'll just go one way You know what I think that'll be uh, that'll be a good format. I say Yes, I also think so um In which case like said if there's if there's nothing else for anybody I'm willing to start that process up Yo for it. Let's do it. Oh exciting um They kind of do a little bit of an infinity wall whereas the credits are rolling in we're getting like Like the the the setup like information. Yeah, and it's just like they're almost trying to do it in a spooky way well, it was way spookier in infinity wall, but Yeah, we got us the the aftermath of far from home is essentially just takes on straight away from far from home the um Identity was revealed by mysterio and he was framed for mysterio's murder, which Did they did they actually confirm explicitly the mysterio died ever in either of these movies? um No, I think wait, did they show because they call it midra? Well, I mean, but yeah, but I guess we have to confirm mysterio died I mean, we can still they confirm that people think mysterio died right Well, I guess that's enough because I was just curious if they've locked the door on bringing him back And the interrogation scene wasn't like I wasn't the one who killed mysterio's the drones. Didn't he say there? I was a shot Um, I think you you're right, uh, but to be fair, I'm asking this to find out if they'll might bring mysterio back And I just realized like well, they can bring it back anyway, so Yeah, I kind of feel I guess and that is actually like proper dead Not faked it. Yeah. Yeah. I know they never showed it like that Well, remember when he died when he died in the other movie They just said all illusions are down So he had to have either been acting but then what did he run away like no? He's got to be dead I assume he's dead, uh, yeah So, yeah, well that that's happening and uh, all peter grabs up mj because uh Lots of there's a lot of people just doing that pokey grabbies because they're like under some people being like you're a kid like oh my god, um I kind of uh, I guess I have my first criticism Is it the crowd just kind of parts to let peter out? I'm like, I don't feel like that's happening I don't know because like the I mean he's spider-man. He's really strong I don't know that I want to stand right in front of him. He's running So I think any any Well, two people try to attack him physically I don't I don't feel that like fear of him is what's moving them out of the way Certainly, you know, like maybe some of them, but uh, I feel like let's let's nip this in the bud right now Okay, if I go to new york city and a man in an animal costume is in front of me You I I'm gonna assume he's dangerous and I'm gonna get out of his way That's a great joke rags, but It was jay about to be like with being serious rags. Okay. Yeah, I don't there's no, okay That's a great joke rags, but uh, it's not an appropriate time as long as listen as long as it's acknowledged. That's fine Okay, yeah, it's like all right. You have to hurry. No, I'm just just revealing. Oh, okay. Cool. I don't know. We robon A little bit. Damn. Well, wait, are we in? The automatic right now Think oh if anyone wants to throw us in there pray for the best I can click it and press sing do it Hopefully we'll do less robotic Hopefully singapore will help us out to singapore So you're saying it's like a chunk of slay that tries to grab one of them Yeah, just look I think if you look at it It's good enough that pita seems to be trying to push A way to be formed. I guess you're saying they should have been more aggressively trying to grab him Um, most so just everyone moves out of his way Like you from one shot he surrounded and then the next shot There's like a clear passage from to move through it's like everyone just kind of politely gets out of his way when I feel uh, the the moods of all the people there are going to be very different Um, they'll probably be some people I just like that's a hell of a coordinated effort even if the people there aren't uh All like they're instantly all just move out of his way I feel that's not happening that quickly even if everyone there isn't like, uh Conflicted in in all different emotions flying wild I don't think they would have been able to stop him anyway No, I don't think they would have I think I think this is a very small thing of like It's just sort of they don't want to have to deal with the crowd being in his way So it it moves rather than uh The the full like ugliness of the scene potentially taking place as in like the The awkwardness of him actually getting out is sort of glossed over I think But it it wouldn't be any more than awkwardness. I don't know that if you look at the crowd I don't know if you it's like they seem pretty just the average normal people They've just been announced that this is a thing I don't know what you do with that information when you've just had it and you see spider there How do you did they ever explain how they so quickly knew that um, mj was his girlfriend and they just do She got dropped off with him like a minute before that happened Oh, right before this happened. Yeah, I remember and far from home. They she swings around with him and then they Yeah, she he drops her off there. Okay. Okay um Yeah, they do some swinging and they end up on a little uh I don't even know what it is. Is it a bridge? Yeah I first thing I thought it was like under construction or broken or something. I wasn't quite sure because it only shows it quickly That's great. It's a lot of bridge To uh to answer the phone to Ned they exchange dudes until uh Peter gets her out of there by they come up with like we can avoid everybody by going through the sewer And then come back out and get him back to the subway Is that what a sewer looks like to you with trains in it? Yes, um, yeah Subways are dirty places We have very advanced sewage systems with trains Where the trains also pass through they ride the poop to get to where they need to go They just slide It's more interesting than that. It's it's just trains riding on tidal waves of poop. Yay Let's go all the boards at the next station poop poop There's not a lot of space You gotta do what you gotta do. There's human ingenuity. Uh Yes So yeah, they head back and um, I think we're given like the start of the next scene is like a it's like a Wanna so it's a good old fun. Wanna and it's um Happy and and may uh fully breaking up, which is makes sense just right after far from home where that was a thing. Anyway, um And uh, I don't know. I just thought it was funny that it seems normal behavior We're just be like, okay. Good to go. Okay. Good to go. This is a doll. He's like, I better check that out She's like, no, he just like comes into the house like doing it. Um He's it's happy. I you know, like he's an interesting character in terms of we've had little of him in many movies So Yeah, he's pretty much a character. Um I feel like we get to know him more in the spider-man movies than in iron man. Um, I think yeah Yeah, yeah, especially by iron man three like happy kind of gets dropped He just gets hurt so that he's like a person who was a victim of like extremists and then that's it for him really We don't see much of him again, but in them see you spidey stuff. He has a more prominent role I like him more because of these films Yeah, yeah, I barely remember him in iron man to be honest like He's yeah, I have any significant memories of him in those films. He's the driver and Yeah, um They think if someone said what do you mean happy wasn't in iron man, I'd have been like, yeah, yeah, sure. I buy that Um, I feel like you got a little bit hooked in this movie. He kind of became Uh comic relief where I mean, I'm assuming Iron man saw a lot in him from to like be his right hand man for all this kind of stuff So it seems like he's a little A little moping incompetent in this movie. Was anyone else getting that vibe? I kind of get I kind of Actually do anything incompetent or is he just a funny man who who says funny things that because I don't think he's incompetent I think he's just kind of silly When winds uh peter parker's revealed to be spider-man internationally all over global news and also to be the alleged killer of Mysterio happy is like, oh We broke up cry sad. I just kind of feel it's a little bit unprofessional I guess I mean I guess the only thing I was really incompetent was him not luring up like from also Yeah, not luring up. He didn't know he didn't know that he would need a lawyer even he thought oh that is true Yeah, he didn't he didn't know but it's also like the the stealth helicopter thing where it's like There's news. There's people shouting all around and there's helicopters outside and and people are like But we broke up and they didn't notice anything was going on. I thought that was a little Obviously it was done for like kind of community He was already yeah, he was yeah He was in the building before the helicopters arrived. Yeah, they were having that discussion and then the stuff arrives Yeah, I just like if you had three helicopters outside, you would hear it Absolutely, like if you're like what's going on? There's three there's helicopter. It's like really really loud When I I mean when I hear a helicopter outside I don't always go to look like There are helicopters outside me sometimes. I don't assume that I've become most wanted I'm just It's like Yeah Yeah, I mean, I've not lived in New York I've lived in city like half my life country other half and I've definitely heard Helicopters, but these were pretty pretty low to the ground like I've seen Helicopters fly well well above the city to kind of you know news I guess I guess I've never lived anywhere as As as big as new york and to me that uh hearing a helicopter like even if it's quite nearby isn't like Whoa, what the fuck is going on? It's like oh a helicopter Yeah, I might be bothered to go outside and look what's up with it But again, I might go indigo is a time traveler from medieval ages when they didn't have helicopters Whenever he hears one it's still an incredible They did What are these spindly uh spinning birds up there? I don't know what this is They must be for me. These are the demons coming for me Go get me I'm just saying like I think I think there's actually one shot where peter opens up the blinds and it shows like a helicopter within Uh eye level like meaning they're really close to the ground. So like and I think there's multiple helicopters That'd be pretty loud. I'm just saying that that would be a little bit of a stretch I don't know that it Helicopter's going past buildings pretty close by is probably something that happens every once in a while there I'll yeah, I'll tell you like um A helicopter once landed next to my house when I lived in Germany and uh, it wasn't like It wasn't like crazy. Fucking loud. What the hell is going on? It was just like oh that helicopter sounds kind of nearby But like it's also worth like noting that if you're focused on one thing you'd be surprised by what you can miss Yeah, and they were focused on the conversation that they were having Like yeah, I think they were having like they were having a conversation. It was an important conversation Yeah, he clearly cares a lot about his worship with me. Yeah Yes I I guess I yeah, like I can I can believe that he didn't hear them Okay, well, I can believe he did he may have heard them but didn't think much on them but didn't yeah, yeah It was a bit of a uh, you like for example, uh, army of the army of the dead Whatever the terrible movie was um the whole like outside outside of line of sight the helicopter is silent When you see the helicopter loud I think it kind of did that. Maybe it was maybe I'd have to watch it again to get 100% Yeah, you hear the rising noise, uh, I think you do hear a little bit But then like he pulls up in a blind all of a sudden boop boop boop boop boop boop boop boop boop boop, you know So I was saying the copium is strong. I'm sorry like Wait on which side I don't even know I was like everyone's just making arguments man I don't know why Yeah, and uh, hey, right, we're just having a chat. Don't be mean. Otherwise, I'll turn you It doesn't ruin the story for me at all, it was a little bit of a theatrical for me to like okay, they're too caught up in stuff to not hear the three helicopters that I'd level outside, but probably bigger for me, and I don't know when you want to approach this, but Edith and Karen, they're shown in one shot, they confiscate the glasses when he's arrested, this is jumping forward a little bit, but we don't, like that never comes into play again, and that'd be a pretty big advantage for Peter to have those. I could see them not coming into play if it's still part of an investigation that's happening, you see is all about that. Yeah, they talk about her stark tack, it's under investigation and they take the glasses as well. Like the charges against Peter were dropped for sure, but that, but they, I think it was even said explicitly that they're still like an ongoing thing with the, with the stark stuff, and even if there wasn't, it can be like bureaucracy and things like that to just make it difficult to get these things, you know, and would they necessarily give them to him, just because Tony did doesn't mean that the government would give him back to him. I feel like he's getting those back to be honest. Yeah, I don't want him to have them back. I don't want him to have them back, no. Yeah, I mean, I didn't, I think it would have complicated the plot like tenfold, but at the same time, I think they should have probably destroyed and or completely disabled them, because the fact that that there's there's an army of drones, intact drones out there and Edith and like laser cannons and satellites and stuff, that would have become in a lot of handy. Well, it's more complicated than that, right? If if you've got like stark and they made the industries is going to like fight to make sure that stuff doesn't get destroyed and they're a big company. So I added at this point, they're like separated from the plot, like they're gone. They're not something that they didn't want us to think about that because that opens up a whole other box of stuff. I just well, they've addressed it. I'd rather put it that way. They addressed it enough, I guess. It just it did it did seem like, well, OK, I forgot about Edith and all those things. I could have been pretty handy when searching for all these super villains. But OK, that's the thing. And as a writer, you should be able to write it out. And it's been confiscated as part of the investigation. Stock tech, like, I don't know that those drones are in the clear because of the amount of damage they've done, even if Mysterio was controlling them. That's still a matter of there's going to be so much time. There's a lot of that, like I feel like this is an example of the stuff that happens more often in these MCU films, then a lot of the other ones where it's like acknowledging that there is a world that exists in this universe that has an interest in these types of things. Yeah, we don't usually get zero. We're calling about damage controllers back. Yeah, they're back. He does a pretty good job at doing that. At least trying to rest the MCU. Yeah, it definitely tries more. And I don't blame other films like we're our own thing because they're introducing to hold new franchises into an already like super huge and loaded and complicated world already. So I don't blame them from getting rid of it. You know, just kind of boxing and shipping off. But at the same time, I was like, you know, I think that maybe having like a couple of scenes that to deactivate the systems to completely take it off the table, I would have felt a little bit more. I would have felt a little bit more like, OK, that was an option. And all of them, as far as I know, they took away his glasses and that was it. So yeah, well, he's not going to get him back. He can't get control of them back. I mean, the government and the feds, probably at the highest level now have control or confiscation of these kinds of things. And they just he's also a superhero. He's also a superhero. And you broke out of the most secure facility in the world, I guess. And he's not omnipotent. And if he's especially after the. I guess what are you what are you saying should have happened? I would have. They obviously show a quick cut of them confiscating the Edith glasses. That's fine. But they, as far as we know, that system is still active. Those drones still exist. Yeah, maybe. And and that's all a potential asset when he's trying to fix the universe, the multiverse, right? And the glass over his access. I would have appreciated that, like, OK, after all this destruction, the drones and stuff, whether or not it was Peter's fault, this all needs to be completely deactivated, shut down, dismantled. I would have kind of like to see that that way it's completely off the table. Right now, it just seems like he just seems to get his glasses back to have access to it again. That's that's what I got. Well, I never even thought that he was going to go try and get the glasses back. I thought that they were totally out of play. I mean, I always thought it was put into a box when he's arrested. They confiscate the glasses and put it in a box. Will it be that moodle? Don't we get late that we get later on when when he's on the bridge trying to talk to the MIT lady? We get like a little blurb from inside his suit, where it says the. Oh, yeah, that's right. The suit is still in an open amount. Yeah, because the suit is a stark network is offline. Yeah, all right, yeah, yeah, that's under investigation. Yeah, like I said, this is all very deliberate at the beginning. They need to knock that out because he needs to not have it as an ability. And they put it out. Yeah, I mean, it's knocked out as a very logical progression of the events in the story. Like, yeah, I feel like if they wanted it to not be knocked out, they would have to put in more legwork to justify why he still has it. Yeah, I think so, too. I actually given what happened with them in no way in far from on. Yeah, I mean, if they if they if there's a scene where it says stark network offline at the beginning and I missed that, then it's my bad. If there's a scene at the end, does that mean that it was always disabled? I'm not so I'm not sure it's when he's on the bridge. It's when he's on the bridge after the start, the strange scene. Oh, fuck. Yeah, at that point, at that point, it's disabled. That's when we know it's disabled. Yeah, that's confirmation that it is. Oh, OK, it's not early then. OK, I'm fine with that, because that's before he gets it all confiscated, right? I think so. No, this is when he's much lighter. Yeah, OK, but that's well before the whole multiverse capture everything. So that's fine. Yeah. OK, if that's what they said, I missed that that scene was like so fast paced that I must have missed that. But yeah, if that's the case, then that's fine. I'll retract my my complaint there. Um. So, yeah, the I think one of the next get the. Yeah, it's like the Daily Bugle Report, where someone's thrown some green on all Spidey and it's not my girl. I know, I know, of course, similar. I wouldn't allow my good to be used in such a malicious way. I'm sorry. Did I miss a green goosey? What are you talking about? I mean, I was wearing a suit, but it's not my green goo. OK, yes, but I don't mind. I think you're like, did I miss a green goosey? Like, yes, the green goosey. There is one to me. I thought that was pain. So here I get described as goo threw me off. It probably wasn't hate. But I mean, yeah, it was it was Nickelodeon slime. A certain sense of pain is good because everything's good in a certain and, you know, from a certain point of view, everything is good from a certain point of view. The goo. It sounds like the villainous line he would deliver in his movie. It took me like a second to realize that what I had on my hands and I blew it. It's something I'm an ooze would say. Oh, yeah. A certain point of view, the Power Rangers are evil. The power of the goo in the palm of my hand. How do you all feel about them turning J Jonah Jamison into Alex Jones? I was not really. Oh, no, he was so one dimensional. I mean, I don't prefer him to the Remy version, but I don't know that it's a problem. He is he is perfectly representative of what a reporter would be in this world. If you want to talk about like one-dimensional. He's they got two things. He's not like really a character in this. He's more so just a he's just a standard entity that represents the tale of Spider-Man. He's a plot device. Well, he doesn't need an reasonable education when it comes to his facial installments. Like, well, yeah, I want to make sure we get this out really early. He's not a bad guy at all. He's completely normal. No, he's not a bad guy. He's not a bad guy, he's not a bad guy. No, he's not a bad guy. He's not a villain. He clearly is acting off of the information that seems to be, well, I mean, he's like, dude, look at what's happening. What the fuck with the Spider-Man and all this stuff happening? Like, geez, this guy's a mess. Dude, they introduced the whole like selling supplements thing as well. I thought, are they going to make a joke about this? It's like, no, they just have him do it. It's like, look at me. I'm Alex Jones. And then they don't do anything with the Jones. They don't. Well, they introduced him as the controversial daily bugle. And it's obviously Alex Jones, even down to the supplement Hawking, right? But the weird messed up thing is that he's pretty much completely right from the public's perspective. Alex Jones is right. Because per all the publicly available information, Spider-Man was involved with the Jones. He ordered this, et cetera, et cetera. And at the very end, he's like, he's like, there's something finished real quick. At the very end, he says, what are you going to do? Destroy another monument like you've done before? And what do they do at the end? So he's kind of right. You know, you can't really fault him for that. That one wasn't finished yet. It doesn't count. And Mysterio was well reported as being a hero that saved the world. And so he's obviously invested in him and not in Spider-Man. And yeah, I find it all, he has like three scenes. And I liked him. I liked the portrayal. But he's just not a secondary character. He's absolutely tertiary as fuck. He's barely in it. Yeah. Which I didn't really enjoy watching him. It was like, yeah, well, he was like, you have J.K. Simmons reprising this character and you don't make him at least a little bit as enjoyable as he was before. I don't feel it's really practical to expand his role in this film, like beyond just the presence of the media. Well, I quite like his speech that Spider-Man watched. Yeah. Yeah, I like it too. Yeah, I like it. And that's like the most of his game time. Yeah, I mean, I'm not in the center. And I assume he's probably gonna be getting a bigger role in one of the next three movies, which we're almost certainly getting. Don't know. Maybe. Yeah, maybe. I could definitely see what they're doing next, I think. Yeah, I'm really excited about. I mean, I mean, Spider-Man might work for him in one of the next ones, right? Exactly. There's plenty they could do there. He's gonna be working for Alex Jones. Well, so yeah, the way you can write that is that he is the one that will pay the most for Spider-Man Pictures, which makes a lot of sense, right? Yeah. Or it could be that Peter Parker ends up working for him and we do end up learning there's a lot more to this guy than just what we've seen in the three scenes that we got. Yeah, well, like you said, because they were three scenes. Exactly. That's the yeah. This is a very, very. It does show it does show a J. Jonah Jameson making like money off of it, though, right? Because at the beginning, like you see, he's really shitty set up and then at the end, he has like a whole studio. I thought it was kind of like they show. He is profiting off of Spider-Man. Wait, why do they show a studio at the end? Yeah, at the beginning, he's got a big square green screen, a basement and then loads of like post-it notes and notes on his wall and stuff is very like he's probably in his own house, you know, then later on, he's a full studio that's, you know, it's just to me, it's just like a really nice detail. Yeah, yeah, you see him. Yeah, you see him like he is making profit off of Spider-Man. Well, I mean, if people want him as a new source, new source, wow, new source. I would donate to a J. Jameson only. I don't know about you guys. Yeah, just live and uncensored. And yeah, you've got your potential there for him to end up hiring Peter Parker in the next movie. It could be we've got plenty of fun potential there. But yeah, he's just go ahead. Oh, and something I found interesting is they do go into a tiny bit of detail as to why he would specifically target Spider-Man in this shared superhero universe. And it seems to be at least a little bit focused on the fact that he is like the one hero with the secret identity because everyone else is pretty public. And meanwhile, he's going like if he really wanted us to trust him, why would he not just unmask himself and show us who he truly is? And I think that's, that was just the need to be not to mention that, you know, the fucking the Mysterio shit. Like, I feel like that's the biggest detail that he's got going. He liked Mysterio. Clearly. Like he was, yeah, I was, I was fine with him. Like he's taking a side in like what I assume as a part of an issue for a lot of people is the Mysterio thing. And it's realistic to people tend to take the side of somebody who died, like people who die instantly become revered. So I definitely see the whole Mysterio angle. Definitely. Yeah, except for hair. And we got another one. It is. Rags Hitler counter. People will start collecting it from me in video. Peter Parker in the next Spider-Man movie becomes like Hitler. Well, Peter Parker to Joe Jenae Jameson in the next movie is going to be Paul Joseph Watson to Alex Jones. It's going to be the same relationship. You say Joe Jenae Jameson just then. Did I? Is that what I said? I think so. Don't don't you just said you just said nude sauce. I'm not taking this. I refuse to be criticized. No, we're both taking this. It's funny that we both said those things. Equal Marvel Studios Hitler. Well, it's a Marvel villain. Yeah, he's I mean, canonically, yeah, in the universe, he is. I mean, yeah, he is a Marvel villain. That's true. You know, if you think if they adapted him for a Marvel movie, he would have quip like Judaism, more like Judaism. Ta-ha. Is it Marvel? Because Red School was part of the Nazis, right? He worked for Hitler. He was he was mega. He was a mega. Hydra was like a faction underneath. Well, they had their own devices, I guess, like in term. They broke away from Germany in that film, right? I think. They were they they were sort of their own thing. I feel like Red School was just using the Nazis for his own end, but he was a dick, too. So, yeah, the the DODC, Department of Damage Control raids his apartment. And they they show us a picture of the the suits container, but it's empty. The glasses and I think a tie fighter because it got one in Lego, I can't remember. But yeah, just letting us know the glasses are out, but the suit is in. And then he's in jail. And this is the thing. This movie, I upon rewatching it, I understand like a lot of people think that there's lots to say on pacing. But my God, the amount of things they had to do in two hours, I really feel like they did a pretty good job of balancing this, considering every single event we've got to deal with. You could have easily edit another hour of content, I think. Yeah, we watched it. Time for everything. I feel like it was paced well. They had to do it a lot. Yeah, I mean, maybe there is a non theatrical cut out there, but this was easily the most ambitious extended film since event or end games. I would be it was tough to put all this in here. So incredibly on board with an extended dude, look at that. Pacing is great. Pacing is fine. I don't think they could pace it was. I think an extended cut was actually needed. Because I think the biggest thing I didn't like about the the whole jail sequence was, I think, like, OK, Matt Murdoch gets introduced and he's like, oh, yeah, the charges are like nothing's going to happen. But then he talks about the like public hearing and we just don't get to see it. Like, I really I really wanted to see the court in public. I think you say we're free. Yeah, that's that's not actually a court hearing. Yeah, that's Twitter, basically. Oh, yeah, he's talking about he's talking about like public. Right, man, you're going to get to Twitter. I would like to see it is actually like. Oh, no. He's probably also referencing J. Jonah Jameson, honestly, as well as the court. Yeah, the court is going to be referencing the court. It's actually the furthest thing from the court that you can get. Probably what about a burrito? I still think that a burrito could be used as evidence within a crime or an investigation. So I have burritos in your honor exhibit a the burrito. Oh, now it's order order. It's vitamin four about being tried in the court of burrito opinion. Yeah, I was I was a little bit annoyed when I saw the trailer that he would be in trouble for the stuff in in England, when there's just so much evidence to the contrary of what Mysterio is claiming. But then this film was like, well, yeah, the charges aren't going to stick. And I was like, good, the charges shouldn't stick. Yeah, yeah. However, that's all you need to spend on it. Yeah, I agree. But the main issue here isn't that isn't some legal implication. It's public implication. It's what, yeah, there's no way that these murder charges are going to stick. We didn't need to see a trial or anything. They definitely do spend a fair they do spend a fair amount of time showing a lot of people don't like Spider-Man. Well, that's not going to change, even if which is inevitable, right? Even if he's exonerated, there's going to be people who are still. Yeah, I'm saying to give the important part, they give the most. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're a wonderful little media podcast. So all I'm going to say is describe what happens in this film without referencing anything from real life by saying, even if a court case went through for Spider-Man, he was exonerated completely and given the innocent verdict, we'd have a shit ton of people saying he's guilty of a piece of shit and should be killed. So yeah. Yeah, I think that the movie the movie nodded toward like the modern sense of justice pretty well in that regard. Like, even if he was completely exonerated, it doesn't change. Hang on, are we going to do a secret? Oh, hang on, are we going to do like a conservative read of fucking? Fucking this film. Because so far, we've got a lot of material. This doesn't need to be the that what happens. I know that. I know, I know, but it's just like just taking part as an issue. And we've got like Alex Jones and now that we can do a lot of stuff. I suppose I just want to. I just want to see like the opposite of the remark, the remarkable Republican video. Just no, no, actually, you know what? I want to see the remarkable Republican video. No way home is a conservative masterpiece. Like, does the public opinion really matter though? Like, does it really reflect? Does it really, does it really conveyed that well when they led him back in school the next fucking day? You see what happened when the public opinion doesn't get you kept out of school. His friends got barred from MIT. And this. Yeah, but he's allowed back in just allowed back in a high school. Why wouldn't he? Yeah, he's not a criminal. He'll be illegal to keep him out of school. Yeah, the school, the school wants their their hero. Well, he's like the rock star. Yeah, yeah, two of the school board like him, one of them. Well, one of them likes him, one of them doesn't. The other ones need detail. The two that like him were there in Far From Home. The two, the one that doesn't wasn't. Yep. Oh, yeah. Hannah Boris was in the first film. No, he was he wasn't there. He wasn't on the trip. He wasn't on the school trip. Yeah, he wasn't on the trip. I was on the school. He was like, I think the logic there is that they saw what Spider-Man did. They saw what Mysterio did and they know he's a hero. Oh, that's a good detail. Yeah, but from what I remember, there was no bullying. There was nothing. It's like he's just in school and people are kind of just taking photos of him and like, OK, that's it. That's all. What are people going to do to like someone that they think killed an Avenger? Like, I'm not if I thought that one of the one of the people I went to school with killed an Avenger, I wouldn't be fucking with him. I'd say, is it is a cap Marvel? Please tell me it's cap Marvel. Lots of people are. Remember when you try to enter the school, you've got like he's like a pariah. You've got some people with science in like hero. Yeah, good guy. And then for some people with vigilante, then some people like murderer piece of shit and they're all shouting and stuff. Like, I feel like that's a lot, isn't it? And then, of course, the big one. Yeah, yeah, not at his. Not at his school, though. Like, no, I'm not talking about, like, physical. I mean, no, no, vandalism, like, secret vandalism of his. He goes to the roof to escape everyone. And that's basically all we get of him in school, isn't it? Is that he just leaves to avoid people. Yeah, to avoid being photographed. And that's right. They don't need to show anything like. I don't know. I think it was like harassment. And that's pretty harassment. Well, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, if you're especially if you're 17, you just want to go to school and people won't leave you alone and they keep taking photos. Lord knows what they're probably saying. And then, of course, the big one being that, yeah, all of his friends don't get into any universities because I know him. It's fair to say as well. Brick was thrown through his window. And a brick that daredevil catch because he's a really good lawyer. I did very much. I was quite happy when I saw him. But of course, now I'm just like, Oh, what are you going to do? Yeah, I didn't even kick him. Is this foreplay to his funeral? What is this? Oh, no, because that's the thing is it's like he was. I liked him in this. He was cool and he was in character. And I'm glad that he's here. But I get worried about what's next. That's all. I love Matt Bardock and I love that seeing him here. But I am a little worried, too. I think this was basically just say like nodding. Yes, Matt Murdock. He's still Matt Murdock and he's in the MCU. I think the problem is like I'm not sure if you've seen, but like there were interviews where like the people who are making Hawkeye that has Kingpin in it, they don't even know if the show is canon. Like I don't know. Yeah, I was going to say as much as I like seeing him, it is a huge problem plot and will that he's here. The history of Daredevil as a show cannot coexist with the MCU's history that easily. It's like, you know, what I would say at this point is that thanks to the MCU being really shit now, it absolutely could. I could believe it. I could believe it. Yeah. It's what I would say is like because of how like MCU stuff now is like starting to fall apart, it could fit in and not be acknowledged. And I don't think that people behind it would like notice. You know, I don't know that most people would have. The Daredevil. Could it just be the same act of playing the same character though? Like we have that. I assume they're not going to want to do that though. They're going to want the season to be canon because people love them. I think they're going to want to. Well, they could just leave it ambiguous, I guess. I think they're going to do that. I think they're going to leave it ambiguous. I think it works easier. I think it works up until end game. The blip is the real big problem, obviously for anything connected to the MCU. Because if you watch the show, they loosely reference the Avengers here and there. They talk about cleaning up New York City after the attack. They talk about all this other stuff. So it is Batman. It is. No. No, she does shows up in the MCU. Like so the more meta issue is that those shows were by Marvel's television division, which is not Marvel Studios. So they're not technical. They weren't made by Marvel Studios. And that's the reason why like there is no way Kingpin hasn't been on Doctor Strange and Iron Man's Raiders. Like he's he's done a lot that has changed a lot. I think the hand would be on everyone's Raiders. The Punisher would have been someone who like, how does that not come up? And Jessica Jones, obviously, because she's super powered. Yeah, and Luke Cage. These are people that are of interest. Danny Rand, they're all like dead. Everlight could believe would be more under the radar, but even then there'd probably be some acknowledgement. This isn't like to reference. I'm not like saying this is catastrophic. It's just like they're not going to put any effort into doing that today. They're just going to be like, here he is. I would actually argue that it's kind of goes under the radar of the Avengers because their Avengers are finding like extraterrestrial threats and stuff like that. And like the thing is Jessica Jones is really strong. These are the same. They necessarily get involved, but they should have been an awareness of them. And then a desire to possibly call them in with certain events happening. But I would argue that it kind of falls in the same category as the original problem or the original conflict in the homecoming where like the guys that Spider-Man was going after, the Vulture and his crew, they were like too low level for start to even worry about. He was off like in Dubai or something like that. So I felt that like normal humans without any superpowers who just are kind of doing crime, crimey things in New York would be kind of under. Jessica Jones has superpowers, so that's the thing. Like Jessica Jones, Luke Cage, and Iron Fist all have superpowers. Yeah, they do. I'm just, as far as like the big bad villain guys, I mean, probably Jessica Jones villain will probably be the biggest threat just because his character should be ridiculously evil. I'm glad you mentioned that because I think, I didn't watch season three of that show, but I watched season two and they explicitly referenced the raft in relation to a character who's got superpowers, dude, they want to sit in there. And so at that point, it's like, well, wait a minute. If they want to see a character in this show to the raft, like are we not? Jessica Jones is very strong. She can jump over buildings, my dude. Like she's very strong. Yeah, there's definitely some inconsistencies and they weren't developed as perfectly coherent, but I did remember that they acknowledged that they were in the Avengers universe. Yeah, I just want to acknowledge that as much as it's awesome, I love seeing him. I love the little scene with him. I just think that if I was to rewatch the three seasons of Daredevil, we probably will be able to find a lot of things with like, they're going to have to dress this, right? And this, and this, and this. And I wonder, and I guess as well, the big thing will be, so Kingpin is back in play. What's Matt doing about it? I guess we'll find out. He's, yeah, I guess we will. Yeah, I don't know. The Hawkeye I've been watching in Hawkeye, so I don't know how that messes it all up, but from what I recall, the Daredevil show kept its distance from Avengers, but did acknowledge that those events did happen. So it kind of kept like a kind of moderate distance away while still acknowledging, so I don't know. They might mess it up completely. Who knows? It's okay, really shit, by the way. I don't know. I only watched the first episode. I don't know. Jack, it's Hawkeye shit. I trust you with my life. Oh, no, you're full. Yes, no, yes, no, yes, no. Oh, you know what you could do? Molly, you could put a poll in the chat. Hi. How about the buildup of Kingpin is not compared to fucking Daredevil? So also it's gonna bring, I don't know when to bring this up exactly, but at one point, Peter says, I'm an Avenger and I'm broke. I remember that being a really sore point in what's that terrible show? Falcon and the Winter Soldier. Falcon, yeah, like how is it possible to be Tony Stark's protege, Avenger and broke? Like I don't get it. He had all of his stuff taken away by the police. But like he was broke. His money too? He's not 18, so it's possible. Well, yeah, he doesn't, like, I don't, it was like sharing in money. We now know it's canon that he wasn't giving money to anybody. Yeah. I guess so Stark's a big ass. Thanks Falcon and Winter Soldier. Yeah. Cool. There you go. Is Hawkeye good? Everyone vote now. Well, those who see it. For some reason I just saw that and like instinctively voted yes. Like I don't know, my brain was just like, click yes. And I did. Hawkeye is morally good. I guess, you know, if the plot continues as it did in the first episode where a string of insane contrivances managed to get our character in a place where she can be for the plot to happen all while Hawkeye just so happens to be in New York. If it continues to be like that, then I doubt it's good. But at least it's better than everything else in Phase Four, right? Except for this. Except now for Spider-Man. Yeah. Oh, maybe that remains to be seen. Who knows? What will conclude by the end of this stream, you know? Well. I guess where are we at? I guess Stark was canonically egalitarian about his not sharing his money. Didn't share any money with anybody. That's not being egalitarian. It's just being greedy. I fucking hated. Oh, I hate Falcon and the Wind Soldier as a show for the most part. It's a fucking shit show. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And when they established the Tony didn't give a fuck about any of his vengeance, I was very unhappy. No fun. Very unhappy. Like, wow, really. Gave money to a bunch of MIT graduates. Gave money to some random kid in Iron Man 3. But doesn't take care of his own people. Doesn't make any fucking sense. Guarantee you when they wrote Civil War that he was doing that with the MIT students. If you said to them, like, is he giving, like, stipends to, you know, his avengers? The Russers would have been like, of course he is. We don't need to address that. Of course. Like, yeah. Yeah, it's not even, yeah. Oh, shit. Crazy. And someone on the right said no. I mean, obviously he wants to be in a school with his friends, but I also thought of this. I'm trying to be as critical as possible, so don't hit me for this. But basically. I hate you. Wouldn't MIT kind of be, like, baby's first school compared to anything that Stark Industries is involved in? Or am I just being dumb? Like, it might be like, like a... MIT is one of the best universities in the world. Yeah, it is. But also, Stark is, like, a freaking mega-genius. Like, anything that they make or weigh. There is no Stark university, though. But... Well, anything about it with Stark involved in the world, MIT is just on steroids compared to our MIT, if you know what I mean. Yeah. It's going to be a better MIT, probably. It's clearly shown to be a very prestigious institution that smart people want to go to. It's Ivy League. It's one of the best universities in the world. Yeah, but I mean, like, my GameStop, my former GameStop employees to buy video games from, he worked at MIT. And he woefully told me about that story. Like, okay. So, like, as good as it is. There's a lot of people at MIT, yeah. Yeah, yeah, for sure. I'm not bashing it at MIT. I'm just saying that, like, wouldn't... Like, what else does... If Peter Parker is a super-genius already, he can outsmart the greatest wizard in the world with math, like how to get a job. Well, you know, I don't see him... I outsmarted a wizard in a weird way. Don't strange at magic. Like... Yeah, these aren't... To be fair, he's probably not doing as great as he could be. Isn't that a Peter Parker thing because of the fact he's so busy, crime-fighting and stuff? But he's also, like, doing really well in the test. Whenever he's actually pressing in, like, homecoming, he's super-smart. And I'm pretty sure his grades start failing in homecoming, and he has to shore them up. Isn't that something that happens in that film? I don't... I just rewatched it. Everybody's mentioning that Doc went to MIT, which would probably explain why he wants to go to MIT. Oh, yeah, I think he's more wanting to go because of his friends, but... Well, that was, like, one of the best universities in the world, especially if you want to do, like, science, engineering, tech work, stuff like that, which we know that he wants to do. Where should he go? I guess, where... Yeah, where should he go would be my question, I guess. Well, my point was, why bother with MIT when he's already an Avenger? He has Stark Laboratories connected, and he could just get... It's because he has a normal life. He wants to lead. He wants to be with his friends. And he wants to get a degree. Like, degrees are pretty useful. Yeah, I'm just... This is not necessarily an argument to wanting to be in MIT. It's an argument to, like, why is that your only option to the point where you want to reshoot... Well, he had two of the schools, but declined. And he wanted to go to MIT. Yeah, the two of them. Oh, and he got a rejection that says... It's ambiguous as to whether he just didn't get in or if he didn't get in because he was Spider-Man. Oh, okay, so that scene went so fast. So every one, it was like, oh, that was my backup school, that's fine. It was like a montage of Aunt May with the letters. Yeah, I didn't get immediately that they're all declined. That was my bad, okay. Yeah. Yeah, well, was there anything else for the Matt Murdoch scene? Anybody? Um... It was funny. It was funny. All right. Yeah. Well, I'm assuming you guys' audience, my audience was like, Oh! Yeah. Yeah, I got a reaction. That's one of those people. And I was just like, oh my God, I'm surrounded by people who even know who he is. That's cool. Yeah, I was really happy. Like, yeah, you all liked Ed, and well, that makes me happy because he is a great character. I think I gasped a little. I don't know why because I've never watched that show. I just know who he is. Me neither. I was like, hey! I think there was a big awareness of who he is, which, again, makes me happy because I don't like people who know who their devil is. I think on a matter of sense, people probably understood the significance of a non-MCU character showing up in the MCU in the film that it was rumoured. You know, everyone knew, everyone going in knew what the rumours were. I think for a lot of people, that was significant just to mean, oh, they are bringing characters from other properties in. Yeah. That's true. It was rumoured. Which is what it was for me when I saw him. He's the first one who shows up, right? Yeah. Yeah, so that's, yeah, that's the... It's like Garfield showing up before Toby McGuire. It was very just, it just happens. Look, the scene begins. You said Garfield. Yeah. When you said Garfield, my brain definitely went to a very different place. You have not seen where it rubs through the portal. It was on you, man. It's Garfield. I'm sorry, John. I think it was a small question about this scene. So he catches that brick. Like Daredevil's not super durable. So would that brick not have broken his hand if he reached out to catch it like that? No, no. It depends if he catches by decelerating his hand, right? Because a person threw the brick and it went through a window and there was distance. Yeah, so it's probably going slower at that point. Yeah, he's a strong boy, even for a human, right? He is strong as a guy, yes. He's not super, he's not like super human. But he trains a lot. A strong boy, yes. That's right. Park Street, yeah. So he's strong and he's got the reflexes and he's got the super sense. So he would have been able to sense that well before the glass. Well, it's probably worse case scenario. He has like no nerves in his hands, you know. Yeah. That was a boxer, right? He's a boxer, right? That was Daredevil's boxer. Yes, it's Daredevil's fighter. I feel like you don't even have to be that strong as well, just by just to if you actually managed to catch the brick by matching it speed first and then decelerate in your hand. Yeah, that doesn't work. I don't think it's a problem that he catches the brick. Yeah, I agree with Rags. Also, I was going to make an argument that the glass would have to decelerate at some point. Yeah, that was the impact. Yeah, this is going to be the part that's clipped and taken out of context to explain why we're a bunch of loser turbo versions. Vigil. Turbo turbine, not wear a turbine. Tib and Vigil. I've never fucked a turbine. Yeah, because it's a turbine. Anyway, so because of the heat, they're moving in with Happy to avoid the... Because everyone knows exactly where Peter Parker lives, but they don't know that he's with Happy Hogan living in his apartment in which he's taken himself some stock tech. The, what is it? It's called like the materializer or something. Fabricator. Fabricator. Which is funny. It's hypnotic. We could talk about that now. We can talk about it later as an entity. It's up to you guys. We can talk about it later as it comes into play in a very significant degree in the story. Very well. And so then we get MJ and Peter talking to each other, which I think it's hard to deny this is the movie that does the most work with their relationship. It's definitely trying to make sure we understand what it is that those two find meaningful about being with each other. And a lot of the compliments he gives her are all very sarcastic. And so the subtextually it's like he's saying what he actually likes about her is not the things that he's saying. I thought it was a decent bit of dialogue conversation. And I like Happy's injections of comedy, but it sounds like we might have some different opinions on that. I don't know. I'm leaving it open. I'm finding the least funny comedy character in the film, but I don't dislike him. I thought it was funny. I don't... He's fucking bum-linked me. Yeah, sorry. Sorry, I just felt... I liked his comedy. I thought it worked. I just felt like he was a bit more emotional slash bumbling, where he's also supposed to be basically like the... Essentially the underdog CEO, under this Tony Stark sub-CEO type of guy. And he seemed a little incompetent. You remember what they do with him. He's bumbling, but he doesn't do anything incompetent, right? Do you remember what they do with him in the other movies? Yeah, I mean, he's always like... I mean, in Homecoming, he doesn't realize that the stealth ship is taken by Vulture and a lot of stuff. He's not particularly competent throughout those as well, but... The reason why I didn't know that the Vulture had taken the ship was because they made the high-vacuum seal, and then once they got inside, they were able to deactivate the system. He's... I wouldn't say he is... Well... In the position he's in, strictly for high competence, rather, he's like a very caring person. He's been good friends with Tony for so long. For a long time. Yeah. And he's not incompetent or anything either. Well, I certainly wouldn't call him bumbling. Bumbling is... I think when I think of bumbling, I think of Mr. Bean. Like, whoa, we've got to move to this part. Yeah, it wasn't that bad. I... With Happy, it's just that he's often lacking information, but he's still trying to do his best sort of thing. Yeah. He can be kind of... He can be like... I know, he can be sort of... He can give off an energy where he doesn't carry himself as if he knows what he's doing, but I don't find that he makes any stupid mistakes. Yeah. I agree with that. Yeah. Because if you remember, he gets... Ha-ha, he's beaten up by Scarlett Johansson and Iron Man 2, right? And he's like... I'm gonna take you on and you go, oh, wow, you could argue Iron Man 2 was using him as a punching bag. At the same time, it's like, yeah, she's... Well, I was gonna say, it's like, to be fair, he's not going to be able to beat her. Like, you could use that comedy scene with any character who isn't also an Avenger, pretty much. Yeah, I mean, even at the end of Iron Man 2, they both go in and break it and Happy beats one guy, whereas Black Widow took out like 30, and he's like, yeah, it did so well. And then she's like completely cleared out the rest of the entire complex. So it's not too inconsistent. I just... It would have been kind of cool to have him pull through and do something really, really smart or really, really key to the plot. He just has kind of background noise for the most part, it seemed like. But I don't know. I mean, he's very caring and helping to our protagonists. Like, he lets them live in his home. Like, that's not something to be overlooked. He has a very useful presence to have around. Well, and I mean, we'll talk about it later, but there's some looks he gives at a certain scene that I find was very meaningful considering his role in Spider-Man's life. And makes you think for a second that, you know, this is a bit of a surrogacy that could have happened. They had things gone differently. Yeah, he could have been like a stepfather if things had gone differently, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so then they find out, well, that's when they go to the school and then they end up on the roof and they're just talking about their future plans. Everyone's pretty chill. And he said that the happiest he's been is when everyone he wanted to know that he was Spider-Man knew. But now everybody knows and it's just given him the old stress. But still dealing with it. And then I think we get to the scene where they're opening their letters, their final letter, because we do the montage of getting the letters and being denied, but they've got the final one and all of Ned, Peter and MJ get denied. And I think it does imply it's to do with their association with Spider-Man. No, it's explicitly their association with Spider-Man. He reads it out. Oh, okay. Yeah, he reads it out because of your recent controversies. Yeah, it was a reason, yeah, exactly. Unless he got his dick out in a train or something, I don't know what other recent controversy that's gonna be. The dark backstory of Ned. Oh, God. Like, he killed 17 people while nobody was watching. And comes in the first bigger criticism I have for this movie. Flash's entrance in the middle of this somber scene realizing their lives been ruined because they're doing something wrong. Flash is like, Loll, I'm funny. Look at me, I'm funny. I'm funny, Flash. Look at me, I'm funny. Flash has been in this film, I didn't. I fundamentally believe that, yeah, the MCU has a joke quota and this is one of those ones that they had to force in. Yeah. Which is weird because I have a novel out of nowhere. Yeah. I think the movie, for the most part, juggles the tones really well, but Flash needs to go. Get him out of there. Yeah. Yeah, when he shows up, it's like, are you just like some desperate running gag attempt? What is going on? I mean, he's supposed to be a bully. Why isn't he a fucking bully? Well, I mean, it's pretty clumsy to like basically write a book to try and profit off of an association. Yeah, but that's just like, look, the MCU's depiction of bullies is a little different from the bullies that I had to grow up with. I'm just saying. None of them tried to be my friend and write a whole book on me, okay? Maybe that's why. That's not bad at all. Maybe that's why. T-Longhorn, with all due respect, you're not Spider-Man. As far as we know. Yeah, I was gonna say. I know that. But Flash is also not a bully, so. Not a very effective one. I don't know. If people were writing books, if I got famous and people started writing books full of lies about how we had a personal relationship and talking about money off of it, yeah. I don't know, I wish you just called me a slur. Unrelevant, anyway. Never heard of you use the call you a slur. Peter spots all Halloween direction, the decoration, sorry, is the little good ol' wizard type of thing and it's like, oh, I could probably, and I'm pretty sure he's like explicit, he wants to just undo what Mysterio did and he thinks that Doctor Strange should be able to pull that off and then, and it's just important to note, the damage will be undone, the damage being what's been done to his friends and family. It's not even specifically about him. Yeah. Yeah, when he goes to Doctor Strange, because this is right after, they open the MIT letters and things aren't looking that great for him, that's when it happens, which I think is really, really great for his character to establish that, once his friends are affected by it, that's what pushes him over the edge for going to get help like this. And we find out that the Sorcerer Supreme is now Wong, because of course it is, because Strange was disappeared for five years. And it was brought up on Friday Night Tights, I think, that it's like, yeah, but it should go back to him right and it's like, I don't think so, actually. I don't know how, yeah, I don't know how it works, honestly. Wong's pretty powerful. Let's just think about it as any normal job. He's been doing it for five years. You come back, it's like, well, I mean, I know I'm in the job. I'm doing it every day. I know all the people. I know what I'm doing, like, you know, just passing it on. After this film, I'm certainly happy he's the Sorcerer Supreme. Fuck it. I don't want Dr. Strange to be the Sorcerer Supreme. Yeah, fuck that. Fuck that. I just want to point out that Halloween is directly responsible for nearly ending the Multiverse. Hey. Oh my goodness, great. I'll come up there. Halloween's responsible for this movie, so I'm more than happy to know. What would have happened if the film took place at Christmas? Who would he have contacted then? The Christmas was a snowman, was it? Santa. Santa. Santa's immediately like, my boy, you have to accept sometimes that you don't get what you want. Dr. Strange is like, oh, that's a way better. Yeah. Yeah, that's actually way better. That's so wise. Do you want to be the Sorcerer Supreme? It's like, what do you want for your Christmas miracle, young boys? Like, oh no, I make the entire world forget. And through the magic of the Multiverse, he's like, that's a whole of a Christmas miracle. What do you think I am? I wish you could. How do I get you on some Legos, maybe? I honestly can't fucking wait for Santa's solo film. And then there's inclusion in the Avengers where we see him in the group shot with all the others. I would love that. Santa's public domain, right? We can do it. Yeah. The answer is public domain. Imagine if Santa's not being public domain American like Warner Brothers or something. Oh my God. You were totally by that shit. Well, happy birthday. The song is not public domain. That is actually a copyrighted song. You have to pay for it. That's true. By the way, speaking of public domain, the public has voted 1,200 times on our Hawkeye poll. You could maybe could take that. I think I'll get that. Yeah, I suppose we should, let's check out the results, shall we, everybody? How do I do this end poll? There we go. Rags, would you like to read the results? I'd love to read the results. Is Hawkeye good? After 1.2 thousand votes, 72% of participants said no, it is not good. That's pretty overwhelming. There you go, thank you. 74%, yes, 74% said no. If I think it's, someone might say like, well, that's a biased audience, isn't it? And I'd be like, well, I would prefer to ask the audience in favor of saying phase four has been shite instead of the audience. What other audience can we poll right now? Well, I'm just saying even if we had access, I wouldn't necessarily want the Twitter folk who love every single thing Mimsu puts out. Because you can't tell the difference. A quarter of a million. 1.200 million. So anyway, I heard someone recently say that the T'Challa episode of What If was good or at least the episode two, I don't know if he gets any more episodes. And I remember thinking, it's much less meaningful to me when you call things good now. Yeah. So I don't really know how to do this other than for me to summarize the events pretty quickly and then we'll go back, okay? So that we got a basis for those last things. Go for it, I know what you mean, yeah. Peter wants mysterious damage to be undone. Doctor Strange says he could do a forget me spell. The whole world, Wong says, leave me out of it. Doctor Strange conducts the spell so quickly that Peter, while trying to explain the parameters he was after, fucks it up, quote unquote. And the whole spell breaks. And then Strange says, get the fuck out of here. With lots of bits of dialogue we will talk about, but that is basically what happens. Who wants to go first? Let's talk about how fucking retarded that is entirely. Because no one, no, you cannot, I don't want to hear a fucking thing from anybody about how that was in character or anything. It was shit. It was a yes to agree that it was shit. Now it was really stupid and out of character for Doctor Strange, not for Peter. Yes, for Doctor Strange. It was for Peter. Like what? It wasn't for Peter, right? Fight, fight, fight, fight. Why didn't they talk about the spell beforehand? They both should have. Yeah, Doctor Strange should have. Doctor Strange should have told him about that. So if Doctor Strange says, I can just make people forget and then goes downstairs, Peter's probably just gonna be thinking, oh, this is probably pretty simple. Then he's doing it right away. He didn't tell him anything. Exactly. Like they're both idiots. Peter just says, I needed to fix this problem for me, Doctor Strange is like, sure. And then heads downstairs. Like, I don't see what the assumption is. Wait, hold on. Spider-Man and belly has any time to process that. First he turned him down. First he turned him down. Yes. And then suddenly he came up with some idea because of what Wong said, oh, let's just erase their memory because that's not also like gonna cause grave fucking issues, like going back in time or some shit. Doctor Strange can't work. If Doctor Strange. Grave issues. Yeah, but if Doctor Strange tells you that it's gonna work and he's the sorcerer of supreme and you don't know anything about magic and then he just immediately leads you to the dungeon. Oh, what does that have to do with him talking during the spell? And Strange clearly telling him to shut the fuck up. So what you're saying is that Peter should just accept this circumstance that he's now in of having everything deleted because he asked for some help. Do you know? Like he just has to accept that. I don't know how relevant this will be. We'll see how it goes, but once upon a time I noticed one of my feelings wasn't quite stable. When I went to the dentist, they were supposed to be looking at something else. I was like, oh yeah, one of them might need some work. And she was like, okay, sit down. I was like, oh yeah, okay. And then she went, which one do you say? And I was like, oh, it was like bottom right or whatever. And she went in there with a little tool and started flicking at it to get it out. And I was like, whoa, stop, stop, stop, stop. What are you doing? She was like, getting the filling out. Then I was like, are you replacing it today? She was like, well, no, but if it's loose. I was like, no, it's not that loose. I don't, like she looked at me in a sense of like you're about to hit yourself by moving. And I was like, yeah, but I didn't know that. We didn't talk about any of this. Like we just started it up. I don't know what's happening. Like I was like, no, no, no, I'll keep it until you're able to replace it on the day. Because I mean, I don't want it just to have a gap. I think the same thing happened in the scene. He was like, give me the spell. No, give me the spell. Yes. Oh, really? And he's like, follow me down the stage. Like, okay. And then Dr. Strange just immediately was like, this spell is going to make everyone forget. And then he's like, wait, sorry, what? No, I don't, I don't want everyone to. And the idea that like, I really don't think Peter's out of character here at all. I think this is all Dr. Strange's fault. He's a kid who's asked for something that goes beyond his scope of understanding. Yeah, I'm not, I'm not against that. I'm not against, like I'm saying Steven Strange is definitely one of the, like they're both idiots in the scene though. He, like Steven Strange, even Strange is wrong. For sending him down there in the first place. He should have rejected him and just throw him and fuck out at me. Agreed, agreed. Yeah, yeah, that's part one. That's part one. That's part one of my problem. Hang on, that's part one of my problem. That's the whole problem. The second part of my problem. No, it isn't. No, you're going. Steven Strange tells him to shut the fuck up during, tells him to shut the fuck up during the spell and he doesn't. He keeps fucking talking. Like, wait, wait, wait, I just like to ask you. It's in the moment though. He's about to like. Wait, wait, J-Longbow, would you, would you shut up? Would you? Yes, I would shut the fuck up. Really? When you're about to, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. My powers, my powers have possibly ruined the space time continuum, continuum, if I don't. First of all, you have no idea that that is the consequence. All you know is you're just going to stop the spell. But if you were just, you found out that all the people who love you are about to forget you ever existed, potentially, or parts of your life that even existed. Yeah, you're going to lose some memories of you, not. It's significant, right? Like, let's say. It's also, it's also Peter's responsibility to specify. Like, Stephen Strange, like, he's wrong too for even considering it. But Peter should have been like, look, all right, look, look. I, you know, I still want people I love to know. But everyone else, because he was on, remember, he was that scene on the roof where he was talking about, oh, the best, best time of my life was when all the people I loved knew. So why the fuck didn't he say, oh, I still want people, the people I love to know? Well, he's getting there, if you watch the scene, so the first thought he has goes to, is it Aunt May, no, is it Mary Jane is the first one? Yeah, Mary, they look like MJ. Yes, I'm J. Yeah, and then he starts cycling through. Actually, yeah, there's, fuck, there's all these people that I still want to know. Like, he didn't know this was happening. Doc Strange went way too fast. I don't blame him. And the idea that it's like, you're disrupting the spell. It's like, yeah, I'm disrupting the fucking spell. Are you kidding me? I don't want to cast it. Why not just say stop? Why not just say stop? Stop for a minute. Well, I don't understand. There's what I want. Well, you also remember, I felt, you know, just tell him, ask him to stop the spells a little bit of much. I think, I was talking to him and changing it completely. That's fine. Yeah. He wants to change it completely. He seems intimidated by Strange as it is. Yeah, I completely understand him choosing to ask for it. Strange is pretty authority. I don't know why you're laughing at the notion that he would be intimidated by Dr. Strange. He went there anyway and asked? But he was so intimidated. He went there to ask him to do it. And he was very cautious and shy the whole time. You're a different elf. Yeah, like when I said intimidated, I don't know. Yeah, like intimidation. And he was like weird, he felt strange calling him Stephen. Like you could see, like you could see that he felt a bit weird for him to go, all right, Stephen. Like that wasn't natural for him. Well, respect is also making sure people know what you want before you ask for it. That's a Stephen problem, though. That's it. Yeah, this is a magic. He just needs to... It's magic. He doesn't know anything about magic. It's past the problem. It's past the problem. He's intimidated by a confidence that Dr. Strange is competent. He is the authority figure in the situation. He shouldn't have known better. 100%, like I'm not denying that. That's not what I'm denying here. You guys are denying Peter's responsibility in the situation. Yeah, no one is defending Dr. Strange. No one is defending Dr. Strange. So we can move past that. No, I'm saying you're like, he's the only one who's taking the brunt of this responsibility. He should be the only one who takes the brunt. Peter didn't do anything wrong here. Peter just expressed his incredibly relic in there. I guess to just... Well, that's what he found out. So, well, I guess to just make it more clear in terms of the sequence, hey, can we go back in time and change it? No, but there's a spell that I could cast that will fix it. And Peter doesn't know anything about magic. So Dr. Strange should explain to him the nature of the spell. He starts casting it immediately. No, all the only thing he had to explain was, is like, don't talk during the spell because you will change the spell. Like you said, you changed my spell six times. He was the spell to change there. Yeah, that's why. There's no going back if he makes everyone forget who's imagined the amount he loses with Aunt May, M.J. and Ned. If all of them forget anything interactions to do with him and Spider-Man. Yeah, that's huge. Yeah, but like, keep in mind, he loses it at the end of the movie anyway. That's not relevant. It's meaningful. That's why it's a mental sacrifice. And it's something that he doesn't want to happen. If it was something he was cool with, it wouldn't be a sacrifice. That's what I'm saying. Someone in chat just said, why is this lady so angry? We're all angry. I'm saying, that's what I'm saying. If it's so important to you, why didn't you specify? Because you can have a chance. That dumb kid shit done. He said, I want to undo the damage the Mysterio has done. Right, which is actually more specific than what Dr. Strange does. Dr. Strange is broad. He's like, the world's about to forget that you are Spider-Man. He goes, wait, what? Because that's not what he asked for. That isn't what he asked for, that's right. To be fair, I don't think Peter says anything about his relationships or family and stuck to Strange and him or both looked for five years. So I don't think that Strange assumed that he had many connections. And that's probably on Strange, but he doesn't believe that people know he is Spider-Man. I'm not going to defend Dr. Strange whatsoever, you know? Well, it's not a defense of him. It's just it's not as bad as it could be. He would have known. If Strange went into this knowing exactly how important all of this stuff was to Spider-Man, then it would be worse, but it's not that bad. He should have asked, though. No, yeah, I agree. Yeah, because this is a very, very powerful and important spell, not to mention insanely unethical. This is what refers to when we say that Dr. Strange was sacrificed on the altar for this movie. Everything doesn't happen unless Dr. Strange is a fucking moron. Like, that's how it has to go. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, like, I don't think that Dr. Strange should have known all about Peter's relationships, but the fact that he's so flippant about a universe writing spell is really bad. What if it was fucking Wong who did this? Would that have fixed it? No, Wong's not supposed to have this either. Now Wong's not on the altar. Yeah, I suppose not. Yeah, I guess, I mean, I guess I profusely want to be assassinated at the Doctor Strange. It might be worse if Wong did it, because Wong is like cautious. He's not a trigger, right? He's a lot more willing to do things that are like a bit more risky, like doing it first in time to stop the doormammu. Yeah, it's more in character for Strange to do this because he fucked up with time in the first film. I still think it's drastically out of character. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's still stupid, but he's more in character than Wong would be, because Wong would be more... Well, I mean, I guess the way to fix, to not assassinate any character is just to have a new wizard for this scene, it should have been Mephisto. Yeah, that was the fix, Mephisto. Well, that overcomplicates the story, doesn't it? No, it doesn't. We can make it all work. Because if he does it and he wants to fuck with things and make things... In fact, it'll help a couple of other things later on, too, if it's Mephisto. Just kind of like, be careful what you wish for, kind of double. Yeah, we can argue that Mephisto was the true villain of this thing, just trying to make people give people what they want, but not what they want. I still don't like the idea of mixing super tech suit, Spider-Man with magic. I think that's kind of weird, to be honest. I think it's cool. Jumping ahead. Yeah, we are jumping. That's way further ahead. We've got so much more to talk about first. Yeah, I don't know if we need to talk about it more, but, like, my stats is Peter does everything I would expect Peter to do in this scene, and Strange is a complete moron. I don't take it back. College-bound kid doesn't know how to ask for something. Okay. He literally does. He does ask for stuff. When you go to get something, you go to get something done. When you go to get something done, do you expect them to just know what the hell you want? Does he take it out of nowhere? No! This is why I brought up the dentist, right? That's because they cut to another scene, Mark! They didn't know they were fighting the sea! What is that? They're going downstairs. They're going downstairs. What do you mean? Exactly. Like, there's no scene where you're like, hey, look. The point of ringing up, he says, like, there may be a spell, and then walks off. He has no idea what to tell him yet, and he doesn't even know what spell's being cast. All he's been told is, by Doctor Strange, I've got a spell that'll fix this. Like, I told you with the dentist story, it's like, well, it's some more or less character to have explained exactly what he wants to fill you. I was like, well, I didn't even know what we would... She just told me to do the stuff. I didn't know it was happening. I was just like, oh, well, this is the case right now. And then Doctor Strange just do it all this bullshit, and he's like, whoa, whoa, whoa. I don't want to erase the memories of all these people. By the way, can I... Well, then... He didn't even have a complex. Because that's what I'm saying. That's right. Please stop yelling, Mettle. Hey, I can just yell with everyone and still... And no, no, no. Mettle, yell. What? That... I'm just saying, like, why not just tell him to stop after you hear that and just say, oh, well, I still want these people, all these people to know who I am. Except for all the... But he kept talking while the spell was happening. He did not tell him to stop completely. That is unstrange. That's not on Peter. Well, I feel like the big thing that shouldn't be ignored is like, OK, now we've just started casting this crazy super-duper spell, and now you've told me something that's kind of shocking. Like, I don't know that you immediately are going to make, like, the best decision in terms of, OK, stop. Like, because you kind of want to stop. I don't know why you're laughing at that. Why are you fucking joking? This is like, yeah, when something really important and grave is suddenly introduced to your mind, you're not going to instantly just accept it, know all the consequences, and react to the best decision possible. Does he even know if it could be stopped midway? I don't know that he knows that. I don't know that, yeah, and he's panicking. He doesn't say he doesn't say he doesn't say he doesn't stop. He voices his immediate concern, right? He says, yeah, it's a very natural thing to do when it's like, it's not just saying, OK, stop everything. It's like, wait, no, I'm concerned about this. Maybe, maybe slightly later on, it would become more reasonable for him to say stop. But I don't think it ever became unreasonable that he didn't simply say stop. Yeah, I mean, as far as the. That's what Dr. Strange, yeah, there were any questions. They should have talked about it. Yeah, he should have said, I'm going to cast a spell that makes it so that everyone forgets you are spider-man. This will affect. You cannot swap. Yeah. Yeah, this will have grave effects on many anybody who knows that. Is there anybody you care about that you would like to be excluded from the spell? And that, by the way, is where I'd like to include an additional criticism of Dr. Strange. He puts himself in the lack of memory group. He's going to erase his own knowledge, which is not only out of character. What the fuck are you doing? You need to explain to Peter what's going to happen at the end of the spell, which is, oh, hi, Peter Parker. Why are you here? And he's like, no reason to tell Dr. Strange. I think I think what we're supposed to believe is that I think that as an audience, we're supposed to believe that Strange thinks Peter knows that that's going to happen. Which is really dumb. Yeah. Yeah. Well, to be fair, I guess that's why he's not explaining it. Until I started thinking about the scene more and I rewatched it, that that was, I thought Strange wouldn't include himself in the memory erasure, but he does. Now, see, you put in all caps, Chet. Strange told him he couldn't stop after he started. It's like, so that's why they should have had a conversation beforehand. And Dr. Strange needed to initiate that because all he did was lead him to the dungeon and then just started before he had a chance to protest. Especially because apparently it's super easy to do it if you know what you need to do. And he very easily... Yeah, he very easily... If it was like really difficult to like, if it was like maybe even impossible to have exceptions, like it just erased everyone in the world's memories, then I feel like we'd be getting closer. And he edits the spell really easily. Like he asks him for an edit and he does it and then we carry on. And it's like, well, now I want another edit. It seemed pretty easy to do. And he's like, stop it. And it's like, look, you're about to erase the memories of the people I love. Like I'm going to try and stop you, Saws. Because you would think after the first correction he would just go, okay, we're not continuing this spell until you give me a list of exceptions. I'm not offering this. Yeah, give me a list, go home and think about it. This is important. I mean, do you think we would at least ask about this family? Unless the spell can't be canceled halfway through or something. In which case like it's done with him to start it. So that's what I just said a minute ago is, yeah, the spell can't be stopped when it starts, which is why they shouldn't have started the spell without having a conversation. Absolutely. But more specifically, Dr. Strange shouldn't have started it because Peter didn't know anything about this spell. He does stop the spell a little bit before he starts it back up. And that's when the problem starts. It seems like he pauses it and he can't. I thought he was editing it. I didn't think he was pausing it. Yeah, I thought he restarted it like he didn't drop it. I'm not sure. Yeah, because he like spins the circle and then carries on. And then that's a new circle. Yeah, like it's two circles instead of one. Like a refresh. Yeah. It is bad writing, but it's Dr. Strange who gets ruined, not. Yeah, we're just clarifying Peter's in the clear as far as we're concerned. Dr. Strange is done though. I'm not worried about it. He does dumber shit anyway. All right. I'm sure we'll get to it. I'm sure we'll get to it. I'm sure we'll get to it. So, yeah, then comes one of the- By the way, at this point, at this point the spell is only that they forget he's Spider-Man, not who Peter Plocke is, right? Yeah, that's right. Okay. To address a common criticism people have and I feel really bad that they make this criticism, but it's fine. We're just gonna have to get it clear and address it. Oh, no, you're not gonna talk about- Some people say all Peter has to do is retell him that he's Spider-Man. There's literally no- No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Don't say this. Well, you know, if any of you guys want to take it, then what's the criticism? Go ahead. So, okay. Go right. Go, go, go. Imagine all of the people who visit nursing homes and hospice care every day on this planet who have to remind their parents and tell their parents, I'm your son. I'm your daughter. You're my parent. We've had generations of time worth of experience together. There, I've reminded you, problem solved. It's the experience that makes the knowledge meaningful. A lot of their experience together as people are like, how much have they been through together? Post that knowledge. Ned and Peter, how much have they been through together where Ned is helping Peter as Spider-Man or they're talking about the fact that he is Spider-Man? It's like a huge aspect of their friendship is gone. It's not simply a piece of knowledge. Oh, yeah, all the associated. Okay, all right, let's pause, right? We've already got a couple of people saying that's totally different, and that's all Simon was talking about magic. All right, so first off, all you guys who said that you're fucking retarded, get a goddamn life. So let's go through this, right? You are having people's entire memories completely wiped out as it pertains to a very important person in your life. If you can't see how that is a very clear and direct parallel to Alzheimer's and losing your memory of a son or a daughter or a loved one, you're fucking retarded. I don't know what to say. You're insane. So Rex, people are gonna say, people are gonna say that they're not losing their memories of Peter. They're just forgetting that he is Spider-Man to which a lot of memories. Yeah, everything important is that a lot of their shared experiences require the knowledge that he is Spider-Man. Like, remember all the time, like Ned describes himself as Peter's guy in the chair. Like, that's a huge part of their relationship that goes away without the information that he is Spider-Man. To make it more clear, throughout all of Homecoming, Ned knows and deals with the Spider-Man aspect of Peter. All that's gone. All of that's gone. You can't just re-explain that to somebody. It's gone. We're jumping ahead. The relationships are fundamentally different because he is Spider-Man. Exactly. Like, imagine someone that you know that you share like a big secret with and you erase their mind of all information pertaining to that secret, right? Your relationship is gonna be different. And let's say, I don't know if many people are gonna have like as easy as a parallel. I know. Like, it's hard to think of an easy parallel for this kind of thing. I think I might help you. I think I can help you out there. The only reason that I know Mahler and I know Fringy and I know Jay and I know other Jay and I know all of the people that I've met through EFAP is because they know me through my alter ego. That's true. That's true. I think that would go away. I would never know Mahler. I would never know Fringy. I'd never know Jay and Jay. I'd never know anyone. I would not be able to re-explain all of this to us. No, you could just re-explain that. I was gonna say, like if someone said you'll erase all interactions post knowing which state slash country everyone in this call is from. The second I found that out, everything post that is gone. I'd be like, holy shit. I don't actually know how much I'm about to lose. At least maybe not gone, but at least like irrecognizably altered in a way that it means no longer known. In a way, it's almost scarier in the fact that I now know that we've got loads missing. I don't even know what's missing. Yeah, so like if someone tried to erase the memory from me that you are the host of EFAP, right? Like that's the context under which we first met. That's a context under which we spent loads of time together. Like if the memory that you were the host of EFAP or that you were on EFAP was gone from my mind, I would be losing a lot more than simply that information. And you couldn't simply retell me, yeah, I host EFAP, by the way. I wanna address someone that said, do you expect me to believe he thought about it to that extent and didn't have that clearly stated immediately when he speaks to Strange? What he asks Strange to do is undo what Mysterio did. That's different. And then Dr. Strange says the world is gonna forget that you are Spider-Man. That's like, man, that's not what I asked. Let's pull back our aim a little bit. Oh, let's also be clear. Yeah, I am really a dog. I meant like the name of my alter ego. The name, right? Yeah, it's just, yeah, I'm still really a dog. Now, this might be jumping ahead a little bit, but I had a question about that in the end. We probably don't wanna talk about the end yet, but the original wish or spell was for everyone to forget that Peter Parker is Spider-Man, but at the end, everybody forgets everything about him. Is that an extension of the spell, or is that the same spell? Cause that was, I was a little- He says cast a new spell. It's a whole new spell. New spell. Yeah, fundamentally different. It's a racing all knowledge of Peter Parker from the universe, basically. I'm not so pretty sure the first spell is just birth localized. Yeah, because also- I think it's the whole world is not again. And MJ knew him before, MJ and his best friend knew him before he became known as Spider-Man, so that's why- You raised an interesting point there, Metal, because if it was Earth-specific, does that mean maybe if the Guardians came back that they would know who he is? I was about to bring that up, yeah. I wrote that down while I was watching it. I was like, oh, this is only Earth localized, but then it's the end of it. Is it specifically Earth, or is it just the whole world? He just says the whole world. I mean, that doesn't necessarily mean planet, right? Well, that's the way Metal's making is maybe it is just- Yeah, right, right, right. It doesn't matter at the end anyways, because we don't get that spell, because at the end it says everyone is gonna forget who you are. So it's like, okay, so we don't have that anymore anyways. I don't know if it's intended to be just Earth, but it obviously doesn't, because everyone from other dimensions comes for Peter Parker, including all of those weird extra-dimensional beings at the end, so I don't think it was localized. It couldn't be. Yeah, the last one certainly isn't. I think people from Earth from other universes, because you see like Scorpion, so like Scorpion from another universe, I guess. Rhino is also there. Rhino, yeah. So it's still people from Earth. But the TVA, let's not, shall we? No. Let's not, yeah, no, no, no, no. Are we not mentioning them all the day? I don't think we're ever gonna look at anything from the MCU in future and judge it with the knowledge of Loki. We can't. But the TVA, we can't. It's irreversible. Yeah, I mean, also to back up the argument against people not being able to be told about their relationships, being, that flies in the face of the critique that you guys had about Loki, like episode one, where he's like told that he becomes a good man and everything like that. That's the same idea. Like you can't be told your experiences and become the same person. Like all the experiences playing him. Yeah, all the experiences that crafted the relationship between Peter and MJ and everybody. If those didn't happen the way they did, they might not even fall in love with him because those was a very specific sequence of events with very specific emotional moments that led to them becoming together. But without that, they may not even like each other. Who knows? All knowledge of Peter is erased. How does he even apply for college at that point? Yeah, it's quite a sacrifice to make. Yeah, we can talk about that as well. He's lost everything. And I guess, so, because that comment was sort of in relationship to it, but I assume that part of the nature of the spell is that it also changes evidences in the world of this character's existence. It would have to. Yeah, it has to, yeah. Yeah, I assume that is part of the spell. So I have no issue with that being a part of the spell. Yeah, that's the one thing like all the records and personnel records. Well, I mean, in terms of world building and the power of this magic, it is fucked, that's part of the spell. That strange can just do that. Holy shit. It's some incredibly powerful magic. Yeah, yeah. Magic to remove all physical, all remembered evidence of something. Yeah, that's that part of it. Yeah, don't piss off Dr. Strange. Yeah, I believe it's part of the spell, yeah. Dr. Strange is a fucking god. Well, and I do wonder about the implications of it. Like, I wonder how that looks, if you have files just missing information and things, or is it changed to account for the fact that it never existed necessarily? You know what I mean? Yeah, I mean, do you have like a Star Wars situation? Like, yes, the effect of gravity remains, but the planet not there. Oh. Well, it's like this. Let me ask the younglings. Yeah, because like just his effect on the world, the not, like, you know, me and Rage sent text back and forth like, oh my God, can you believe that guy Peter Parker was spied around the whole time? No way. The conversation has to either change or disappear, right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it's part of the spell. I can buy it, but that just creates all the problems of, oh, you can do this, because it has to logically follow that if everyone forgets about Peter Parker, then all of this information disappears. It's one of the things where we could speculate for a long time trying to figure out any system that might work, because that is the system they're using. The one of you guys figure it out, we're not telling you how this works. Yeah, the spell is basically my biggest complaint about the movie, because like every single photo, every single record, every single video, MJ's phone has to be magically wiped of very specific information. No physical belongings of Peter's could exist in any of these places, like photographs, photos on the wall, a picture of Peter and Jay's wallet, anything, first of the gets, yeah, backups, digital information, physical files, all of that had to be gone. If Dr. Strand had that spell, he could have deleted Ultron from like the internet. It makes me wonder about villains, man. Like, what if you erase a villain's memory? Wouldn't that like make them inert, basically? Yeah, you can essentially erase their evil, right? Just make them a vegetable, erase everything in there. And like, what are the limits of this universe altering ability? Like, it seems pretty useful. It seems either... It's fucked that it exists, pretty much. I think so. Yes, it is totally fucked that it exists. May I just say... It creates insane problems. Team Mordo, take down Dr. Strange before he destroys everything, dude. Do it, buddy, I believe in you. Yeah, it's an interesting perspective with this Dr. Strange movie that you're like, oh, Dr. Strange clearly cannot, he's like a villain, a supervillain, a real supervillain. What the fuck is that called? Well, I mean, I guess when we see evil Dr. Strange in the next movie, well, if he doesn't use that spell to totally fuck everything up, he's probably missing a trick, huh? And this also has bigger implications because like the fight between him and Peter, Dr. Strange should have wiped the floor with Peter. I'm sorry, there's no way that fight goes on. Hey, hey, hey. It gets you way too far ahead, way too far. It's like the next scene, isn't it? Do you know how much anyway? No, it's the only other scene at all. No, no. We're far away from that one. All of us are rich and to make some points. You've got to wait. You've got to be in a queue, the British way. Also, as for that tweet, rags that call it, I couldn't find that on his Ron Tamar's thing. I'm not sure if that's real. Let me take a look. If you can find the original, then we can read it out because I don't want to read it out if it's just fake. Let's see here. Well, you go up. Oh, I've seen that. I think that is real. I've certainly seen it around before. In proof, evidence. I couldn't find it on Ron Tamar's. I'm thinking it would be real. It can't be. I could believe it. No, no, no, come on. Yeah, that's the thing. Does he have a, does he write things for anyone or does he just? I think it's from his own background. You would just go to Ron Tamar's and look at critics. That's what I did and I saw his and it wasn't that. I think Sophia and I shared that. So, I guess, I think she's a pretty reputable source for that kind of thing. Yeah, but why would you take that stranger with a Nokia phone? Boo. It is, like, awfully distorted. Let me go to the best way to find it would be to go to Spider-Man. Maybe he deleted it in a shocking moment of self-awareness. Maybe. Oh, shit. This movie has a 94% from critics and a 99% from audiences. I'm not surprised by that. Yeah, of course. I don't think I am surprised. I've seen a lot of adoration for this film. As a big crowd, please, I'd add one. Definitely. Well, just because I got to go. I was gonna say, you don't need to just just have a look. If you find it, let us know. We'll just carry on. So, we got. Sure thing. The, then Dark Strange says something that possibly annoys me more than I'm not sure what annoys me more about him in every single scene he's in. He pisses me off consistently, but he says, wow, Peter, you came to me to brainwash the world before even trying to make an appeal with the board. And then Peter's like, whoops, yeah, I guess I probably should try that first. And then they shuts the door in him. And I'm like, bro, you're the one that fucking did all of this. You're the one that brainwashed the world. Are we gonna talk about the ethical invocation? No? Yeah, just to make sure, because I'm not sure if we mentioned it explicitly, ethically, it was really fucked up to change everyone's minds about a thing because someone's life's getting hard, like to literally alter what our memories are. That's really fucked. I think it would have been really cool if Strange were taking like a mentor figure and just helps him out dealing with all of this. That's like a plot device for Strange. Yeah, but that doesn't get us a story. We're not allowed. I know, I know. I wouldn't have been in character, too, because Strange probably feels partially responsible that he led them in endgame to the correct route which led to Stark's death. So he probably feels part of the responsibility. You could wind that in, yeah. And the fact that he didn't show up for Westview or for Far From Out, what was even Strange doing? I don't know. Yeah, doing something with, I guess they had to clear all that snow, not like their wizards or anything. They had to clear all that snow in their place. Yeah, that's a use of a little snowy sunset. Shang-Chi, he gave Shang-Chi an eight out of 10. Doctor Strange? He gave two, he gave the... Doctor Strange gave Shang-Chi... Doctor Strange gave him quite a fresh one. Judy Bob gave Shang-Chi an eight out of 10. He gave the Suicide Squad a seven. He gave Black Widow an eight. Oh, boy. Okay. Geez, what a... Are those the only two numbers he knows? No, I'm just reading some of them. Those are just the only two numbers he knows, that's why. He gave Mortal Kombat a three and Cruella a six. He's very reliable. He's a very reliable criminal. What a fucking bizarre person. He has the best way I've ever seen of like making, adding a bunch of words to a sentence and making no sense whatsoever. I can't read his sentences. Well, a lot of people have that skill, to be fair. Well, this is his real quote. It's Hollywood's most awkward co-parenting exercise that concludes for now in an overstuffed, but by no means unsatisfying future. That's one part payoff machine for 20 years worth of Spider-Man history. One part way too meta franchise management exercise. What the fuck does that mean? He gave Sonic a two. Really? He gave Birds of Prey a nine. Oh, fuck's sake. A nine out of 10. I don't know if there's many nines on here. There's a couple nines, but can you saw it by his highest rated movies? Can you please link this? I need to see this. This is just going from the blurbs because the Reed Morris, they link to his YouTube videos on them. Yeah. There's link to all his videos. Let me see if I can rate by, I can. So. I just link to all of these reviews. Yes, thank you very much. Yeah, Birds of Prey is a nine. Eternals is an eight. Shang Chi is an eight. Black Widow is an eight. Man. He gave three guy a nine. He's the perfect Disney Mark, huh? Three guy a nine out of 10. Fuck that, he gave Army the Dead a seven. No. What? Why would you? What? Could be a holy fat. Let's think of movie Bob's opinions and just confusing inside. Yeah, let's get that one. I guess what. Oh my God, guess what? Guess a quiz. Guess what school movie Bob gave this movie? Ooh, that could be fun. Everyone stop looking. Yeah, stop looking everyone. What? What? We're already at two hours. Yeah, actually, you know, I tried, but didn't work. We're not even, we're like a six through the movie at two hours, guys. Yeah. We, that's a six. We're doing well, guys. We're doing very well. But yeah, I think it would have been cool if they would have worked together from the get go and not with this weird spell shenanigans, make some outside force, make fuck something up like a spell they do. Just all of this. I think they could have just had like cool banter with the Gerald because a few scenes they just normally talk to each other later. I think they're like pretty all right. Yeah, there's some stuff. I don't hate to work with there. I don't hate everything about Doc Strange in this movie, not everything. Yeah. We'll get it. Yeah, but I think that that's the way they joke is like. I would argue that per Doctor Strange in the movie, he is kind of characteristically reckless. If you see like, well, I mean, his whole entire arc is based on him being reckless. He's a little reckless as a surgeon. He's arrogant. He drives way too fast in the mountains. He almost loses his entire reason for existing because of that. So I would say that that's kind of there, but they didn't stay too far. At that point. What we see in Infinity War seems to me more definitively, Doctor Strange at that point in his arc, which is I've been tasked with taking care of the world. I will not risk anything happening catastrophically to the world for any one person. That's not happening. Yeah, I would agree that he's a bald past that. Like this, if this happens, let's say, halfway through Doctor Strange, the original movie, I'd be more on board, but he's definitely changed. Because in Doctor Strange, he gets to choose from going back to the surgery life or becoming someone who protects Earth and he chooses Earth. So I just, from that point on, I don't believe he's like, let's do a spell. It'll be fun. No way. No way. Yeah. Oof. It hurts. Yeah. I know we said we weren't going to read any more movie Bob quotes, but I have one more that I think you all enjoy. Rachel Wise has a little farm with several adorable cunecune pigs. Film of the year thus far, eight out of 10, Black Widow. Well, when the man is right, the man is right. Of course he loves pigs. He relates how he's a little old, behind people. We've been frigging to be like, hey, pigs are cool. He's not. I was actually wondering whether or not he likes pigs are cool. Bob, that's a representation. Am I oddly, that pig from Black Widow did look like him? No. If you just go back and see. Come on. And just like Black Widow. We're big alone. No, you got down. He got suffocated by a monster. Like he suffered enough. Maybe she rebelled herself. Right. Black Widow is like my commentary on how like, you know, Disney can just flip his his review on and off from, you know, fresh to rotten, just like the pig was able to turn on and off from breathing to not breathing. You know, it's my commentary. That makes sense. You got a week. We can we can we can run on. Let's continue. Or go ahead. So Spood decides to try and contact the admissions lady and appeal to her himself. He gets the information through Flash, who just says she's just left to go to the airport, I think, from presumably wherever. So on his way, he contacts here, get a little bit of a start up of a conversation. And then the spider sense starts tingling, doing its little lingly flangles. Now I want to highlight, nobody's specific. All right. And if this applies to you, don't worry about it. It's fine. A lot of I saw a lot of criticism being like, fucking shitty MCU pizza once again, activating and deactivating his suit right in public because he just doesn't care about its identity. It's like the whole world knows who is. Oh, what? Yeah, I clearly know. I don't know why that's sad. I know a few things that don't point me saying that. I just when I saw it, I was like, I don't understand. Why would he bother at this point? One little detail. I like those like Peter Parker. One little one. That's possible. Deny ability. One one detail I really liked about that is that when he was in his suit and then he got out of it and he was like trying to be Mr. interview man, his like suit was all wrinkled and underneath the whole ring for the rest of the day. I thought that was a good detail. It's a great detail. Also, this is the first time we get like a spider sense sound effect in the MCU, which I thought was neat. It's just a little neat there. It's like a bit of a call back to the Rammy films without going into more detail. I love the spider sense in this film. Yeah, I mean, do we know if if we're talking about who arrives? Is it contrived that they end up in the same place? Or is it? I think that was a result of Peter being there. Right. OK, that was I wanted to check. I do have a question about Doc Ock because he is not aware that this is what Peter Parker looks like in this film. But wouldn't his face be everywhere at this point? Or presumably is we have Doc Ock got disoriented from having teleported went to where his machine should be in the location from the Rammy films, found us not there, nor is his like hideout. And so immediately started hunting down Peter as the person who stole on his machine. You could argue his face on the way over there. Well, you could argue not only that, but also shouldn't he just be looking for information in general because everything will look different. Yes, this is a new universe. So surely he would have tried to get some information somewhere along the way that would have given him quite the realization, you know? But he seemed. Yeah, they treated as though he's just arrived from having been teleported. And I guess that's a possibility. Trying to think of how that would make sense, like in terms of does it follow? Well, because the other people teleported randomly because like wasn't met him in Mexico or something or since South America. I don't know how that was something. Definitely somewhere. So it's probably fair to imagine there was a couple of people who got teleported in that we never even saw because they're just so confused, you know? And do it not because I think Venom had a what could call a normal reaction than a lot of them. They all seem to be like, yeah. Rawr, just a drink. Yeah, he just goes to a bar. He's like, the fuck is happening? Do you want people? Did all the people from the train and Spider-Man too? Did they come through the? Oh, God. Oh, no. Well, the thing is maybe, you know, maybe. Well, yeah, they could have been around. Like, what's going on? What? Where am I? Oh, my God. What's happening? How are the story of those people? Because I know what it looks like. That doesn't mean that they know who he is, right? Yeah, they don't know that he's Peter Parker. Yeah, I suppose. I'm like one of them managed to find. They know Spider-Man is a guy like a white guy with brown hair. That's what they know. Yeah. Yeah, they might not even recognize him if they saw him on the street, to be honest. Maybe, I guess it depends. Some of them might, like, if they could put a face to Spider-Man. It depends how good a memory they have for faces, right? Because, like, if I saw a dude one time on a train, even if it was, like, an important experience to me, I probably wouldn't be able to pick him out again from a crowd. That's just not a skill I have. Whereas, you know, I guess some people probably can. It depends on the individual. But I feel like it's probably not enough for them to get in the spell. They might have walked around the world. Knowing Peter Parker is Spider-Man. They might have walked around the world for 12 hours. They went to a police station or maybe tried to contact their versions of themselves. You know, what you're doing might have happened in the 12 hours they had or 12-ish hours. Yeah, there could just be like, there could just be a fun side story where a guy meets an alternate universe version of himself, like. Oh, it could be like a tragedy where his life is terrible on the old universe, but in this new one, he meets a girl. They fall in love. They're really starting to kick things off. You know, he's just he finally things are starting to look up and then he disappears and go back to it back to his shitty universe. No, I want to stay. Well, God, that should be a really interesting subplot is if one of the characters that the alternate universe has fallen in love with, like, say, what was the girl in the amazing Spider-Man? I forget her name, Gwen Stacy. Gwen Stacy. Yeah, like, what if she was alive in this universe and then he didn't want to leave? That'd be an interesting subplot. I mean, I don't want to be backseat writer. But that, I mean, I feel like they won't be able to fit it in, but it could be the kind of interesting thing to do in a story. Right. Yeah, I don't feel it fits in this movie, but it's it's a neat concept to work. Yeah, the story is already very full, but that would have been kind of cool to explore. I'm sure something like that's been done somewhere. That's ringing bells for me. Yeah, kind of like, oh, it's it's talk to you season two. Sidemen one, they do that. That's a plot line in that. Yeah, that's the story. You can watch that if you want. Fringy, what's the Simpson episode that does this? It wouldn't be. It wouldn't be something. Yeah, I think we're in the future. Tree has a horror or something. Maybe we need to invite Mike's to cross over here to tell us what Star Trek episode this is, too. Yeah. Oh, it does feel like a very national premise. I could believe it's been done a few times. Yeah. Because there is that one episode in season one where the people from the past are awoken from cryogenic slumber and one of them only cares about his business and his stocks. And then he has to come to get back all that doesn't exist anymore. Well, there's yesterday's enterprise where Tasha Yar falls in love with the past version with that past guy on the Enterprise C and then he chooses to go back in time with him. Yeah, so that you had to stop, though, the Romulan war with, yeah, I have a generation. Yeah, this is a bit of a tangent, but I just pulled up Twitter. Oh, we're there. We're there, Fringy. Fantastic Four was on the tab trending and I clicked on it and I'm happy because it's all people like, oh, hey, John Watts is doing that. That's going to be a cool movie. Yes, finally. I appreciate you for the man. Yeah, finally underrated at this point. I mean, yeah, I disagree with that. So this is the Doc Ock's theme starts playing with the spider sense and just Remy. Ray Moines start to come. Just fair. Ray Moines. Hey, I could be considered a Ray Moines. I was really happy to listen to that theme coming in. Cool. Sam and theme come back later, too. And like, I love a lot about Dr. Well, Dr. Octavius, I guess the I guess this the sound effects of all the tentacles and the clanking, the like how consistently will have at least two of them focusing on movement and stability while the other two are like attacking and then the different ways the tentacles make use of the environment and just everything to do with the person who's trying to attack like this the interesting ways he'll use the tentacles to do all kinds of different things. Obviously, Malina and his commentary in the fight is just fun to listen to as well. And yeah, I mean, we can't deny it's just like now we haven't seen him for like 20 years. Yeah, it's like 68 now. He did a bunch of de-aging or whatever. But like, yeah, it looks pretty good for the most part, I think. Yeah, I was surprised. He doesn't look like he missed much time since Spider-Man 2. It's a good reminder of a really fucking cool Spider-Man enemy. Yeah, Tokok is awesome. And I liked how he's like the one that was actually being able was able to be redeemed at the end pretty much. I mean, I guess Sandman 2, I suppose, but he was like the really strong redemption arc there. I think everybody wanted that. And we'll probably talk about it more later. But like, Malina, the acting or like the immediate switch in the main, the immediate switch that it's so clear when he gets fixed up later, like, that he's a different person. I love it. So good. Yes, and we'll talk about it, I guess. Something relating to the tentacles is that we almost need to re-watch a little bit more thoroughly, but there's almost like an excuse here for why the tentacle blade is not. You say almost. That implies. Is it almost or is it just definitive? Jon Watts has answered the tentacle blade question. It doesn't work on the Dying Spider. Don't work on Dying Spider. Yeah, I'll see everyone. Hey, yes. And also, he has to restrain Peter from using his own arms before he can get a good shot in with the tentacle blade so he can't just press Peter down and activate it to begin with. So there's like two things going there. Yeah, I was really impressed watching him fight people and his tentacles. They really did seem like a natural extension of his body at this point. He was clearly used to having them and using them. It was really cool. It was just cool to watch him. Yeah, I'd love a set of Dr. Octopus tentacles. I'd like them too. That'd be cool. Pop them on. I love like how he's. I also like how he used to grab my bread. I love bread. Look at all the bread I could carry. That's what I want to see a movie of Doc Octo doing, just getting, buying bread at the store. Shopping and just being able to more efficiently get stuff than everybody else. Yeah, look at this bread. Look at this bread. Bread of graph. Indio, what are you going to say? Oh, no, I was just saying that I really like the detail where not all the time, I think, but a lot of the times, especially when he got more flustered, Doc Octo would start talking in like the Royal Wee. We're like, we won't let you do that. Because it's actually tentacles talking. And I thought that was a great detail as well. Like, yeah, yeah, really. So as soon as he gets fixed up, he stops that he's talking from the first person again. So it was just like, it was a cool detail because you could tell that of all the villains that deserve to be redeemed, he was just messed up because he's under mind control rather than, you know, something of their own. Like a motivation of power or going to his daughter. That sort of thing. Yeah, he's like, yeah. So it's like his tentacles corrupt his existing motivation into something more sinister. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Though admittedly, when he wasn't under the super duper control of the tentacles, he did not peter out of the way when he tried to unplug the machine. Yeah, so you can argue that it is. That's what Jay kind of bulls what Jay said, right? Like it's it's already it is there. It's just not as loud. Yeah, yeah, it kind of brings up the worst. The inhibitor chip removes his inhibitor chip from his brain. Oh, my God. Thank you. I'm here all day. I also like that Peter's like not fully engaging with this fight. He's also trying to plead to them and explain until he mentions I should have killed your girlfriend. Like, yeah, then he's like with personal now, you know. OK, mate. No, thank you. You've taken this too far, sir. I think it's funny how he takes the personal when it was just wasn't he. Yeah, it's not even about him. Yeah, it's not even about his girlfriend. And I do want to appreciate it is so much fun to think about. But Peter's POV here, this is guy with four leg things coming out of his back, trying to attack everyone, kill me. And he finally gets me in a really good position. And then it says, you're not Peter Parker. It's like, what? But I am. Yeah, I believe. And I think I am so confused right now. I was like, yeah, he would be you and me both. So with highlighting a criticism, I know is is a thing, but I'll talk about it anyway. The oh, wow, how convenient that that the sorry. He said Tony's, which technically it is Tony's. But Peter's nanotech sinks with the the the claws and manages to get them all onto his side by pairing with his his AI. Like, man, if that didn't happen, Peter would probably be dead. What? I don't even know for sure. I guess you could argue that because Peter is kind of vulnerable right now. If you watch that scene right up until he gets control. The thing is, Otto is actually he uses nanotech for the for the the arms in the Remy films. He's explicit. He says there's nanotech in them specifically about the way they're controlled. And so he's which explains why he's not only aware of nanotech and not surprised by it, but interested in it. And that's when it when it wraps around. It's just the devices appearing. That's what the suit says and that the AI is more powerful in the stock suit, which is in line with what you'd expect because the technology of this world is far more advanced than the Remy base done and done. Yeah. Mm hmm. Feel like that follows close in effect pretty well in a way that I'm kind of a nice though. Yeah, it is. It is impressive. I wouldn't have. I just kind of went along with it because I don't remember that line from Spider-Man 2. Nobody would. I don't think it's like it's only the kind of thing that's going to bother you. If you start asking questions about it and if you start asking questions about it, then you'll probably be able to find the answer. Right? Well, I think this is an opportunity where you go. You don't need to find all those details, but they are there. You can find them. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Which is kind of neat. You could probably ask more questions and maybe get less satisfying answers, but I feel like for sci-fi, this is good enough. Is it not? Yeah. I think the only thing to really ask is if this hijacking ability would have come into play with previous conflicts. So I think as long as there's no contradictions there, you're pretty much in the clear. Yeah. I mean, we see the Iron Suit. The Iron Man, Iron Spider Suit is like so powerful and it can basically immediately, within a snap, cloak somebody in and is fairly impermeable. So you could assume that the armor could also do that to other shapes and sizes, right? So it's not too far out of the realm of possibility that it just wrapped itself around a new object and basically, you know, through somewhat similar technology took over, I guess. I mean, it's really, really advanced stuff. So I had no problem with the nanosuit stuff. And just as Otto is defeated, the admissions lady obviously sees all of this and so she's like, you're a hero. You're a straight-up fucking hero. I'm going to talk with the people and try and get you and your friends in. Really like, by the way, sorry. Do you want to... I can't know stuff that had already happened. I'll just end this. It's just that he says it wasn't about me. Like, as if she's made a mistake, he wants to clarify, no, no, no, get them in. And she's like, no, all of you. Which is great as well. But go ahead. I really, really enjoy the character interactions and the attitudes of Peter and Octavius when Peter has control of the tentacles. Like, it's very... Peter is almost amused by it. The attitudes are very... I mean, they're very characterful. Do you want to... You learn a lot about these people as you're seeing them. I'm trying. I'm trying. It's just not coming out. I have to move you in front of me. That's the problem. Peter's always been very curious. He has a plea to him, doesn't he? Yeah, he's very curious and very interested. Yeah, he's like... He completely deflates the drama of it in sort of an interesting way because he's so fascinated by these Waldos. You're like, oh, this is... Like a got-your-nose kind of moment. Yeah. Yeah. Seems like he feels belittled and Peter is very much amused by it, but it's not like... It's not the most serious, high emotion stuff. It's clearly just fun for Peter, I guess. Now that he knows he's safe and that he's pretty much got this in the bag. Yeah. It is fun that Ark acknowledges like this is fucking terrible for him. Like, I think one of his lines is like, will the humiliations never cease? Like, because it just... It's almost appreciation of... I get the sense that Peter understands that he's lucky in that scene. It's like the kind of thing that I get when I get like a fucking bullshit victory in a game because I get lucky. It's like that's the same kind of attitude I see in Peter there. It's very human. Yeah. I mean, it kind of ties into the whole Edith thing. Even dead, I am the hero. Or even in death, I'm the hero. Like, a lot of this really is due to the long shadow that Tony Stark has left. I mean, a lot of this stuff was absolutely due to Starktech and that fight would have gone very different had he not had the suit on. That's true. Yeah, yeah. This thing, I don't hate the iron spider and I feel like it was used pretty well here and in a way that made sense. So, it'll chill with me. The continuity was pretty cool too. Like, after the chess piece was taken off, you'd like to duct-tip it back on and then later it was fixed. I don't quite get the logistics of that, but it did keep it consistent about that. Was it fixed or was it the... It wrapped around a... I can't quite remember exactly how it worked. Yeah, somehow it got merged again in one scene. I thought maybe Aunt May fixed it at one point. I think he thinks her for it. I don't have to watch that. She cleaned the goo off the suit. No, that's probably it. Oh, yeah. The goo, yeah. Yeah, before he gets out of the car. That's where the goo went. Yeah, yeah. Do I see what we're talking about? Peter thinks Aunt May will be sleeping in the car. I thought that was just a hole. The goo disappeared. No, no. Aunt May cleaned it up and Peter says thanks for everything. Thanks for cleaning my suit before he gets out of the car. Yep. There you go. Precisely. Well, I'm glad we put that one to rest. Thank goodness. I was... The goo was a big deal. So with that done, the Green Goblin shows up in the background. He's about to throw... Well, he does throw a pumpkin bomb. And before we can really understand anything about what's happening, they get Dr. Strange portaled out of there. Both of them. Yeah. Yeah, it's pretty like... Oh, a schnozzle. And then, yeah. And before Peter can understand what's happened, Lizard fucking roars at him from his little cell. And it's like, oh my goodness. There he is. Oh my goodness. He wants to turn everyone into Lizard. By the way, Dr. Strange being able to throw portals again is like super opiate. And it's an ability that he doesn't use enough at all. He can basically put any person anywhere he wants. That's huge. Yeah, the portal ability, if that was a superhero's only ability, that would be incredibly powerful. He would be, like, I mean, literally, he could just teleport anyone he wants to the center of a sun, right? Like that's, I guess, opening a portal to the center of a sun kind of complicates... Oh, you would probably die. Yeah, you would probably die on your own. But he could send them near a sun, or just middle of space. Just so the vacuum of space would go through the... Even non-lethal life. Okay, yeah. And it would get sucked out a bit. But if you have it open for just, like, a second, that's not a crazy amount of air you're losing. Like, you're fine. That's not a problem. But if I create, like, a sonic boom or something, I don't know, how would that work? And I'm not a physics guy, but if you suddenly introduced a circular vacuum inside of Earth's atmosphere like that, what? I don't know. I think it would probably just be a big, big gushy wind for a sec as it was open, and then it would stop when it was closed, right? Yeah, I guess any physics in chat. Yeah, let us know what would happen. Even though you could send anyone you want, like, underground, I guess? You could send them to some distant planet. You could send them the moon. You could also, like, as soon as Peter gets into one portal, you could send him to Fort Knox. Like, you could absolutely take him out of the picture with one portal. So that's a little underutilized by Dr. Strange. Like, as soon as they get... I mean, no, they're skipping ahead, but as soon as there's any sort of conflict, it's Dr. Strange, one portal, bam, you're... We'll talk about that in a moment. We're almost getting there. Well, some of my talk about the... Honey occurred when MJ falls off the scaffolding later. I was thinking, what if you put a portal, two portals beneath her, so she falls through a portal and just shoots straight up, but she slows down and then she comes back and she goes through the other and slows down a little bit more. Just like you do in a portal. It can be like portal. Yeah. Yeah, kind of. You don't need to, because there's no fall damage in that game. Yeah, but you do need to to complete the missions. Because I'm like, I try not to damage them, remember? That's... Yeah, but you don't... You never need to do it to slow your rate of falling. But I don't think you actually stop falling from doing that in... Do you? Yeah, like, if you're aiming for a particular platform, you've got to get your... I guess you're... Oh, yeah, I guess that's true. Yeah, anyway. I play Portal 2. Good. Portal 2 is better than the Portal 1, but it's... They're still both good. Yeah. So then we get another fantastic line from Strange where he says, that little spell you botched went from wiping your spider info general memory to pulling everyone in who knows you. And it's like, well, Peter botched. Who... Who botched? Who botched? What's up? I didn't realize Peter was a magician. He was a burning strange. Well, an MJ makes it clear later that you fucked it up I think that some people didn't like that she was being that sassy with him. But at this point, like, I should be like, I would be way more sassy with him than her. I'd be like, you're an idiot that's costing us everything. We have an issue with that line. It's like, because I don't think that line is out of character for Strange. I think that Strange probably would believe that Peter fucked that up rather than him. I don't think that that's the issue. More so just the behavior beforehand is the issue. I guess I just... Yeah, I guess I hate him. We should not be in a position where... We shouldn't be in a position where MJ should be able to say something like that to Strange and have it make sense. But I think that the characters are acting... With that line, the characters are acting in character in the position that they're already in, which they should be in, because that's how the character... He's lying there with a bullet in the back of his head. Like, you know, let's say the characters were teleported into that position against their will and they all believe they've done that. I think that's what they'd be saying. But they shouldn't have been doing that at all. So, yeah, I think... Well, this is it. We find out a lot of villains are getting pulled in. We need to get them all jailed before they hurt anyone. And then we can try and sort out the spell. So Strange is going to go work on whatever he has to do for the spell. And he wants Peter to capture the things by giving him this tech that... Like, it's like a spider suit add-on that he can shoot a portal at people and they'll be sent into the prison cells. Now, during the movie... Sorry, what's that? Alvin? No. I was confused on why Electro was there, though. Did he ever know Spider-Man? Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Don't you know? Well, so... It might be worthwhile. There's actually probably a few things. Maybe this would be an opportunity to note that the information that the villains have access to seems to be conflicting. Like, did Doc Ock know that Norman was Green Goblin? Did he know that? I think he must have known that, right? No, no, wait, was that public? I don't think that was public knowledge. Remember Peter, don't tell Harry. That was a big secret. Oh, yeah, I guess... He didn't tell Harry. He told the news organizations. It's a workaround. So there's that. It's like we're not going to kill Paul, per se. And I mean, you've just brought it up, right? Electro didn't know that Peter was Spider-Man. That was something that Harry in that universe didn't know yet either. Are we supposed to then assume that these aren't from the places that we know them specifically the places? They're from alternate versions? I feel like that's not what we were... I think I was going to think of it first until we saw that Electro was blue and then got converted into normal Electro. I think that was meant to be like, no, they're from like the other Spider-Man films in canon. I don't know, why would that be... Because they're going to be close. So if the idea is that they are from universes that are what we saw in those movies, but variations and stuff like that would still carry over, right? But then in the ending fight, then Electro's... Like he still didn't even know who he really was. Like he didn't know that Peter was Peter. Yeah, he died before or anything. Well, so like here's the big thing. One of the first things me and Jay talked to each other about was how like why are... We're in spoilers, okay? We've said this already. Why are the two Spider-Man's getting drawn in? How is the logic work? Is it because they're aware that themselves that they are Peter? So why would... And if that's the case, MJ could be here. I'm going to question the narrator. Why do we think the Doctor Strange is 100% correct about the nature of the spell having gone wrong? Oh, true, true. He says everyone's getting drawn in who knows who you are. When it's like, could it be something else? Could it just be people who are related to visions of Peter in any way? That probably is a better explanation. It's not the one that he gives, but maybe he's wrong. Yeah. I don't know what... Yeah, because it seems like there's too many variables that go against what Strange is saying. So either Strange is wrong... Yeah. While I think we're probably supposed to buy Strange's explanation, Strange isn't omniscient within the universe. So like it is completely plausible that he's wrong. Here's your big counter. Venom in the Sony movies has no idea who Peter is because there are no superheroes as far as we're aware in that universe. So him being there has to... Either that doesn't make any sense or Doctor Strange is wrong. Some people are saying that's right in the movie. It's literally not. Whether or Strange is wrong is up to us. We've got the content. Decide. As the context would seem to indicate... We don't add anything there to the story. There's like two inter... You can interpret any line of dialogue as not true. Anything that any character says, unless you're explicitly showing that event, you can think, whoa, maybe that's not true. Just to... Because someone said that's head canon. So what we see in the film is that people who didn't know his identity were there. And Doctor Strange said that that was why they were there. So there is something here that is irreconcilable. Either he's wrong or it's a problem. I think that's... Because Osborn definitely knew about Peter, at least toward the end. We don't know exactly... Did we find out exactly when Greed Goblin was there? The other guys told their stories and when they were nabbed. I think we're meant to assume it was before he impaled himself on the glider. I think the reason why we got told those stories was it's about within a few minutes of them dying. Yeah, obviously before they're dead. And you interpret him to give evidence? That is the evidence. The people who didn't know his identity are there. You guys have to counter it. And good luck with that. Because there's nothing in the film that can counter it other than will Doctor Strange set it? So, you know... So in both cases it's a problem. It's like one is much bigger than the other though. It's less of a problem if Doctor Strange is just wrong. That would be a lesser problem than it doesn't make sense as in a universe. I don't know why people are so averse to that with how much of a fucking moron he is in this film. We're treating it like it's an impossibility. It's like, why wouldn't that be the more reasonable assumption? Sorry. Now I'm very confused. Venom at the end of Venom 2's season newsreel with Peter Parker and Spider-Man. Yeah, but why did he get teleported out of the universe then? That means he lives in the Marvel Cinematic Universe and we saw that newsreel. Unless he saw it and then got teleported in, but that wouldn't make sense. Does that mean that there's... I think a portal opens up and he sees it and I don't get it. I don't understand that at all. And also Spider-Man 3 Venom. Why is everyone saying Spider-Man 3 Venom when we're talking about Tom Hardy? Why is everybody saying Venom has multiversal knowledge? What does that mean? And let's debulse the... I guess he knows about things that happen in different multiverses. If we're deciding to go with everything Strange says is now canon, he can't be wrong about anything. He also says we know frighteningly little about the multiverse. Apparently he has access to the multiversal hive mind. So Venom transcends all universes? Okay. Okay, is that a comic book thing? I think that you're talking about comic books. Apparently it's from Venom 2. People are saying that it's in Venom 2. Really? Yeah. Okay. I haven't seen Venom 2. You guys are going to have to. Yeah, I mean Venom... I didn't want to watch Venom 2 because it was a sequel to Venom. That would still be Electro then. I feel like Electro is still the one. He didn't know. He definitely didn't know. Yeah, he thought Spider-Man was Black. Yeah. Hey Peter Parker, he could have been a Black Peter Parker. Maybe he thought so. He could have known Peter Parker's name, I guess. No, well, so... It's not a very Black name, is it? I don't think they ever met with Peter. I think he met Gwen Stacy, but I don't think he met Peter. Yeah, there was no like... Like, remember Harry... How did you get to know us later? Yeah, after Electro is already gone. Yeah, so I still feel like that's got to be the... Yeah, so I think that it still stands, right? Are the Doctor Strange is wrong or that doesn't make sense? And I think it's way more reasonable to infer that Doctor Strange was just incorrect in his assumption of what brings him here. Even how much we need to ask now, yeah. That's... So all we have to do to counter the idea is like you're writing for the writer. It's like, well, you're writing for the writer too by establishing that that is definitive. You're writing it so that it doesn't make sense. Yeah, you're saying it doesn't make sense definitively both of these reads are entirely plausible. Like there's nothing... I feel like people just get the sense that oh, we're supposed to believe Doctor Strange and therefore... Yeah. It's like, okay, that's like just reading authorial intent into the work. That's not the same as it being written into the work. That's your interpretation. I guess what I would say, though, to give the counter argument a little bit more credence is if you are writing this story, you should probably keep that in mind and think about other alternatives that you have to avoid this kind of confusion. That's pretty much what Jay just said, though. It doesn't matter at this point because we're just talking about what it is now. I'm just talking about the creation of it. Yeah, yeah, sure. But what I'm saying is that I would advise somebody if they were writing a story and this was part of it to think about that and whether there are other ways... There is so much already that we've covered that requires more clarity, but we have to deal with what we've got. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, but all I'm saying is if somebody was writing a story and they had this kind of thing presented as like a potential problem, a potential reading that people might have, maybe think about other options that you have in terms of getting this across. I'm assuming they thought it explains everything and moved on. They didn't think about how it doesn't make sense with several of the people who are here. And so it's on us to decide if that is simply an inconsistency or if Dr. Strange has misunderstood the nature of the spell. And it's kind of like you're assuming bad writing over Dr. Strange being wrong. Well, it's just dealing with storytelling and good or bad faith, right? Because some people will be like, well, what if this character just forgot this hugely important thing? And you're like, oh, but what if a character made a mistake? You're like, well, yeah, that's fine. People make mistakes a lot of the time. Especially with a crazy cube. It's magic that he's never really dealt with before going wrong this way. He's never breached the multiverse before. He explicitly says he doesn't know much about the multiverse. It's all he makes mistakes about it. How do you feel about everybody saying so it is bad writing then? Because a lot of people are saying that. Well, this one guy is repeating it over and over again. That doesn't make it true. Oh, it is more. But no, it's a couple of people's one guy. I didn't deny that. I'm saying there is one guy repeating it over and over again. We've gone over. So inference is a huge part of storytelling. If you want to call it inferring stuff bad writing, then I got bad news for you about a lot of films and a lot of stories. But I'm cool with inference. Yeah. Yeah. I'm about to be using a little inference. Yeah. Yeah. The idea that... Do I hard justify bad writing? I explicitly said that you might want to try a different explanation of what's in the film. Like, if you were writing it again, holy shit. I don't think it's good writing, but I don't think it is. Try so hard, because I'm reading it in bad writing. Shake in my head, Simp U. Yeah, I mean, everyone's very desperate to describe it as bad writing. I've not seen many arguments there. Yeah. Tell me why it's impossible for a strange to have a misunderstanding of exactly how the spell works when he's the one who fucked it up and he said he has a limited understanding of it anyway. I think the best faith argument for why it's bad writing is it's the only explanation in the film of why all of these people are being pulled in from the biggest source of authority that we have. Therefore, it can be inferred from an audience that we're probably supposed to buy into it. But that is still an interpretation rather than an objective event of a film. I think the film leads you towards the interpretation that it is flawed, but I don't think that it is objectively the only reasonable interpretation of the events. Yeah, there's a wiggle room here. Dr. Strange, believing that that's the case would still be a flaw. It's like, no, if he believes wholeheartedly that that is the case and he has no reason not to think that, that's okay. Would have to be contradictory to his character to believe that, which would be very difficult to prove. Yeah, it's not clear why exactly he believes that. It's not clear what's brought him to that conclusion, but... Then again, the multiverse breaches are not something that he's an expert in. He's never seen one before. Then again, here's something to think about because at the end of the movie, the concern is specifically everybody from every universe who knows that your Spider-Man is coming and the way to stop that is to delete the existence of Peter Parker. That's true. That is true, actually. If that works, does that not mean that what he said is true? Well, would it not also apply if it's simply to do with the relation to this Peter's being Spider-Man? Sure. That was my second point. It's like, it could be that or it could be the other explanation as well. I'd say it works both times, but I'm certainly not a fan of how it doesn't make sense. I don't know if we're... Because this is the thing, Electro literally doesn't know. So saying he's only here because he knows doesn't really line up, does it? In which case it's like either that's inconsistent or Dr. Strange was rushing, just fought a giant lizard and is assuming that that's what's happening with the spell because Lizard does know that Peter Parker is Spider-Man. Lizard does know, yeah. Well, that is your only point of reference, right? You don't know... Yeah, that's Strange's only spoken to him. Interesting. So why wouldn't Strange believe that at that point unless he gets to talk to more? And Dark Arc knows, but should Dark Arc know at that point? I don't remember. Well, I guess you could argue that he's from a universe where he did just know at that point. I think he knew about point, right? What did he? Uh... He did know at that point, yeah. It was not just as he did, Maggie. It just as he did. Because he said he had Peter by the throat, which is in the end of the Raimi movie, I think. I think so, yeah. Because of course... Oh, and I think it's because Peter intentionally unmasked and then he grabs him by the throat. I think that's how the events go. That's right. That's right, yeah. So that's when he got pulled from. Wong is supposed to protect the universe. He knows the spell is dangerous, but he's okay letting Strange cast it anyway. Rubbish writing. That is rubbish writing. That is, yeah. That is bad writing, yeah. Don't worry. We agree on that one. Alrighty. But Wong... So... Yeah, we have MJ and Ned's jobs, basically just to find evidence using the information Peter had of limited information of Goblin. And you find him, bring him in. And they eventually find reports of some monster flying around, which spins out. Can we mention the joke? I think we've gone past the joke. Oh, the shitty joke. Yeah, definitely. Wait, the shitty joke? Scooby-Doo. Scooby-Doo joke. Scooby-Doo. Oh, we already did the equalizer one. We just floated right past that. What a reference, right? Well... I was talking about the elf joke. Ooh, we got a bad joke meant. Yeah, do a mole. Do a mole. I'm sorry, the elf joke was brilliant. Oh, are we talking about the elf one with Green Goblin? Yeah, that one was good. Yeah. Equalizer and Scooby-Doo. What are the elf jokes? Yeah, what are the elf joke? I don't know. I get a lot of elf jokes. It's Christmasy. Hear a bunch of stuff about elves. It's elf joke season. Yeah. Yeah. It's elf hunting season. It is an elf hunting season. It is the season to be elfing. So what were the jokes, Jay? We just said bubble down my thing. Okay. When Peter was describing Green Goblin, and he says, yeah, there was this guy who's like this scary, big, green elf. And he's just like, yeah. He's an elf. He's a fool. Funny joke. Then we got him being like, you screwed up the spell. He's like, no, you didn't. And he's like, okay, we'll Scooby-Doo this shit. And then she says, say please. And he goes, please, Scooby-Doo this shit. And it's like, huh. Moving on, moving on. So what this does, though, I don't know what he confirmed. He does. But I think what this is, is a confirmation in the MCU that Scooby-Doo does indeed either either. Oh, this is where it gets fun. Either exists as a TV show or a property, or that canonically, Scooby-Doo the Talking Great Dane does exist in the MCU. I'm pretty sure it's just for confirmation. I can't wait to see Santa and Scooby-Doo in the next lineup of the Avengers. I think that's the point that's making this a different universe where Scooby-Doo was in the Avengers. But he dies. It was really sad. I think every universe has a Scooby-Doo. That's how I interpreted it. He got dusted. He was like, Roar, Roar. Roar, Raggy. Talking about like, Alfa Molina being good. I like his delivery for a lot of the lines more than necessarily the lines. But I just like that when he brings MJ and Ned down, they're talking for a little bit. And then Arc comes into focus. He goes, hey, who the hell are these two? It's just a fun little commentator for all the events because he's I did like all the reactions from the guys in the in the basement prison. I thought that was all pretty natural stuff. I thought it was like, Dolores, Raggy. He's breaking music. Yeah, we're pretty good. Returns of the lights. Badass. It's just the normal basements. Yeah. Yeah. He's like, oh, torture rag. Don't go and have a bad scene in this movie. No, he does not. He loves this machine. It's surprising how well he was utilised considering how in danger we were of him just being here for like, look, it's dark arc. Look how cool he is. Woo, dark arc. Don't worry, guys, in the upcoming MCU projects that are just about this, it'll probably be the bad type where there is no meaningful new context or further exploration of the character. It's just, hey, look, you remember him. It would just be member berries. This is a good memory. It's not just remember. It's also, hey, here's a new context that's really cool and interesting. Yeah. Here's the old character in a new context acting as he would in that context. And we're going to do a bit more with him. We're not just going to leave him totally static. I did feel even if I think even if he was static, it would still be better than a lot of what we got. You know, yeah, I'm perfectly happy to see an old character remaining static, but in a new context. Maybe absolutely. They can even remain static but be explored in a way that we haven't seen them explored as well. Like that's totally possible. Fringy, would you say that a story requires character arcs? I know. I wouldn't. In fact, I did a whole video thinking about it. Oh my goodness gracious. Hey, a video. Oh, nice. Hey, what do you know? I feel, I don't know weird, there's a lot of meta stuff going on in this movie because I think that a lot of the fact a lot of the elements. The movie expects me to just know the English language before I even see it. Like, what the fuck's up with that? Jeez. Talk about going off of meta information. Dude, I watched Squid Game and it didn't make any fucking sense. What do you mean? You watched the English dub in you? It was great. Well, that's here. That's because that's because the plot of that show is shit. I did actually watch the English dub of Squid Game. Just chat. Calm down. I watched it with subtitles first. Kill. If my video I watched the English dub. It's boring. See if there were any funny moments to include. And there weren't any that were funny enough. Honestly, the English dub gets a lot of bad rap. It's actually pretty good considering it could be a lot worse. But my point was is that is it? Did anyone else get the idea that this movie kind of reveres the villains because the audience like the villains? It kind of it kind of has like that sort of medic meta attitude. It definitely has a level of respect towards the previous franchises, though at the same time. But like why would M.C. Peter care about these villains so much? He's just like them. And for all you know. Peter's a good person. Green Goblin like it kind of brushes over the fact that Green Goblin is like a murderer. And please can you please go back and call him Green Goblin? Green Goblin. But like he doesn't know all the horrible things he's done. But we do. But at the same time we like them because they're very charismatic villains. So like there's this odd sort of weird attachment to the villains that I don't. Well, I mean it's very. Peter only gets attached to Norman after he sees him in his like other personality, right? Right. Right. He only sees them. Yeah. Well, you just got a basic investment in them being that they are all victims of the different circumstances. None of them are just strictly evil. And he wants to give them a second chance. Right. Yeah. But at one point I wanted to make this kind of gets toward the end, but at the same time like, OK, let's say you took away, I mean, if it's literally just madness or in the case of Doc Ock, it's mind control basically that's making him kind of go evil. What about Electro? You just took away his powers. If you took away the gun from his active shooter, does that make him good now? No. No, he's still a bad person. You just took away his power. Thank you. Thank you. He doesn't necessarily have to die when he goes back. Because that's right. Yeah, he is. So let me. The only once he's psyched a lot which was was normal in Indiana. I've seen Tazm too and I can explain that if Electro doesn't have his electric powers, he is inert. He's done. Yeah. All that happens to him. That doesn't make him not bad. OK, so you're saying that he gets made not bad. So you're saying so he must die? What are you suggesting? No, no, I'm not saying he shouldn't die. Well, what are we doing here? They were committing crimes in other films where they eventually die either by their own hubris or by Spider Mantain. OK. So are we really dehumanizing the other Spider-Man now? For doing exactly that? Like is... What are you talking about? Are you talking about Spider-Man suddenly better? I'm sorry. No, wait, wait, wait, wait. I really want to talk to you specifically about this. What in the world are you talking about? Demonizing the other Spider-Man? What are you talking about? We're supposed to think what... Spider-Man didn't kill the villains like that. Like, like, like, yeah, explicitly, they... They killed themselves. OK, so then... Andrew Garfield, if Andrew Garfield's Spider-Man was standing over a helpless electoral and then, like, killed him with an axe, then you would be dehumanized. But he didn't do that. Yeah. Yeah, I know. That's what I'm saying. I'm saying that... Yeah, so what... Why are you saying that? Like, demonized. What are you talking about? I'm not saying it knows it's doing it. I'm saying, but like... No, it's not doing it. ...the whole thing or... Yeah, yeah. So I don't see the... The Spider-Man... The Spider-Man are not demonized because Holland is deciding to cure these people. And this is the reason why... Like, they... First of all, they didn't kill those villains, which we all know. They... They basically all killed themselves. But secondly, at the end of the film, they immediately start trying to save these villains once they... Absolutely. ...once they, you know, they work together to try and save them. Yeah. All that Tom has over the other Spider-Man is the... Better tech. ...more of an opportunity to save these guys. Better technology, more of an opportunity... And then, the other Spider-Man go with it. They agree to help. They're not demonized. Yeah. They did everything they could in their respective stories. Yeah. They're treating it very... ...giving a second chance to give the other guys a second chance to have... ...being done. It just seems like a... Like, they're trying to make a correction. No. For only other films. Like, okay. We're gonna help some. We're not gonna die this time. We're gonna do it right this time. They... That's an opportunity they didn't have. He's giving them a second chance because of the technology he has. Yeah. But then that didn't... But it's... They didn't have that technology in the Rainy vs. Older Webverse. Yeah. I don't think anyone's... Yeah, the other Spider-Man aren't demonized for making... They're definitely not. They're heroes. They do everything they can. They did the best with the bracket they have. And now we've been presented with a new opportunity to make things even better. Like, that's not... And they jump on it without any discussion. They're just like, yes, let's do this. This is the right thing to do. Yeah, we can do this now. I know that's kind of silly. That's what I'm saying. Like, they were... What? Just came from... They just came from a universe where they were in the... Like, basically in the midst of battle with these... ...with these villains. So, like, why... I don't think they had the intention to kill them, though. I know. But I'm just saying, like, there's no real acknowledgement of how dangerous they are. Like, there's no discussion. Oh, yeah, that's great. Wait, wait. But people die to... Wait, no, I... I'm just gonna... Kill us, May. Maybe we stay... I know. ...as long as we're confused now. So, what is the criticism overall here that you have? What? My criticism is... I know. I know. Go for it. Oh, no, go ahead, go ahead, go ahead. No, I just want to back you up. I was just saying, my criticism is, like, why are the... Why do these people require so much help when the multiverse is at stake and why are their crimes and previous deeds, including murder, completely brushed over? Neither of those things... Like, the context added. So, they have a choice to fix the universe. Yes, we're doing that. Kill them or not kill them, too. That's an additional choice. He's choosing not kill them. Okay. I mean... He wants to take the opportunity to save them if possible, which I believe is the decision that he would make, especially after his conversation with May. Especially when a lot of them... A lot of them are simply victims of circumstance. Like, Doc Ock being the go-to example, he was mind-controlled, right? Yeah. Essentially. Yeah, I mean, you know... I like throw hell into a pool of eels. And also this... I mean, this is a parallel with Captain America. Well, I feel like it's the standard meme that you see in a lot of Disney animated films where, like, the villain is a bad guy, but the hero will still try to save their life a lot of the time. Yeah, I mean, it's... Like, I want to address Dave Clayton. I just want to address the whole, like, so taking Electro as an electrical way doesn't make him not a murderer or whatever. It's like, okay, so he can face justice for that back in his will, but he won't be killed now because his death is directly related to being an electric person. He has the chance for redemption. There is a possibility there. There is a path forward. He'll just show back up and he'll be... He'll just be a dude there. And, like... Yeah. He'll probably get whipped up and arrested. Yeah, Andrew Garfield's Spider-Man will be like, wait, you're just a guy now? And he'll be like, yeah. Yeah. There's a long story. And then Andrew Garfield will be like, okay, that's nice and wrap web him up. Yeah, I guess we don't really see that. We can implement that it's inferred, but I guess we don't really see that. It almost seems like they get a jail-free card because of... I mean, they're literally going to jail. They're probably going to jail. It's not a jail. Also, they are literally put into magic jail cells. I mean, even... I do think Doc Ock, even... He should probably be going to jail for reckless endangerment before he was taken over by the Santa Claus. Yeah, of course. Doesn't he kill people too? I know Green Goblin literally melts some people. Doc Ock kills, yes, people. Yeah, we're talking about how responsible are they for the kills when it's something that they were... As well, Green Goblin's like, oh, what did you do? Well, I killed some people. Like, wow, I was... But I was under the influence of a drug that I made and put into myself. I don't think that puts you in the clear, to be honest. Absolutely. Yeah, I expect that a lot of them are probably going to jail, but that's better than dead, right? There's actually a real world parallel to this. A very kind of similar thing happened where a Google engineer, just some nerd programmer dude, got high on some really hard drugs one day and killed five people with his car. And so it's like, even a normal person under really bad circumstances can be extremely dangerous. But he's absolutely responsible for that because he put himself in that position. So I guess it's just like, at what point would Peter and especially the others, like especially after Aunt May, what would they just pull the trigger? I think that's kind of the point. It's not worth saving the people. He'll go every... He'll go the maximum distance he can. And we've shown in this... I guess all the trigger... ...that the culture is on May and that he has trouble dealing with that as a cost. I think it's probably going to be uncomfortable with the concept of just executing Thanos. Yeah. Yeah, we know that he doesn't really want to kill people. But yeah, in this case, they're not killing him. They're just like leaving him to their own fate. And like you said, in almost every single Spider-Man, they end up doing themselves in the villains. Well, yeah, but remember in the film, they acknowledge like when he says, yeah, that's not my problem. They're from another universe, but like the point that Aunt May makes is like, no, that's not the attitude to have. And the nature of all of their deaths directly involves their antagonism towards Spider-Man and their power. So maybe we can try and remove that antagonism. Let's try and save him. And remove the power. And he saved Vulture, someone mentioned in the chat. It's like, yes, he did. Spider-Man doesn't like killing people, generally. Yeah, Mysterio shot himself. Would it be known that Norman... I'm just thinking, would it be known that Norman was Green Goblin? Because like, what happened to his body? I feel like we talked about this. We said no. Nobody knew. There was a conversation where we said no because Harry didn't know. There's no way the world knows and Harry doesn't know. I guess, yeah. That's true. But yeah, that was my point. I wanted to back that up Jim on bone, but yeah, it just seemed like, because I believe the earlier conversation, and we're jumping around now, but a conversation when they basically, they had the button, they're like, okay, press it if things go wrong. At what point did all the villains breaking loose and May dying? She wanted to press it, if you remember, but they wanted Peter to go ahead and he didn't give it. Yeah. And before they were able to get to go ahead, they got the other Spundos. The other Spiders. And then there was like, oh, we have another chance now. Now we can do the redemption for them, but with the other Spundomans. But when they find Peter, he actually is at the point of like, I'm just going to press the button. I don't care anymore. Yeah, and he says the way it'll work is that they'll go back and you guys can sort them out, however you want to sort them out. If you kill them, that's on you. Um, that's great stuff. I think it's great stuff. Yeah. So we got Sandman and Electro introduced. And I think it's kind of neat that Flint Marco is clearly post Spider-Man 3. So he's pro Spider-Man. Um, yeah. And he's just like, hey, Spider-Man, remember me? I'm flitting. I'm going to help you out with what was going on here. And he's like, okay, cool. I'm not your Peter though. And he's like, what? Do you think it's a bit of an awkward line of dialogue that he explicitly says, remember me? I don't know. I feel like if it's been a while, I don't know how long time has passed. I guess maybe it could have been a while. I feel like no one's forgetting the giant man made of sand, to be honest. That's very fair. Maybe there's, you could argue that goes both ways, that I am a moving piece of land with a face. I should probably immediately reassure him that we know each other. Especially not just in case, you know, there's a bit of a scare factor. I don't know. In case there's another man made out of sand, who should come to this universe? I feel like you could just say, hey, Peter, it's me. It would be a bit less clunky. Me, sand man. No, flit marker. It is I, flit marker. Remember when we fought a bit? Yeah, I remember that. Yeah. So it's cool they work together to bring Electro down and they all just have a chat and you have, I think Peter's like, it's my fault you're here and he goes, the universe of the woods. Because I hate the woods. And he goes, I'm at the universe. I don't like that universe. Just saying he doesn't want to be blamed for the woods. Yeah, they're just y'all gonna stand there while I pretend I ain't butt ass naked. I will. I am. I am. So question, did they, did I miss the explanation for how, because he says, oh, I have my body back, but did they give an explanation for that? Or did I just miss it? No, no, no. They said the end is stronger. I think it's implied that like the electricity in our universe hits different and that's the reason. Yeah, and he's even, he looked more like he would like to present himself instead of, if you guys remember, the monstrosity from Tasman 2. The mistake is the correct word. They did a bit of the Electro music, but they didn't do the, he hates me. They had the good sense that maybe not everything for the passion. Maybe not everything, no. They didn't do itsy-bitsy-fucking spider dubstep. No, they didn't do itsy-bitsy spider dubstep. And I for one, happy about that because I was stupid. So was it Flint is the one that killed Uncle Ben? So Peter should recognize him? It's like, we don't know who killed Uncle Ben in this universe. In this universe? Yeah, so you don't even, I mean, based on the events of this film. Not everybody in the universe has looked the same. Based on the events of this film, we could assume that Ben died in a non-traumatic way or when Peter was very little. Because it doesn't seem... He could have died in Nam. Because when May dies in this film, Peter seems very new to the concept of grief. To me, it's as in trauma, as in this kind of sudden unexpected grief, right? What, not like Tony Stark? I was going to say, you don't remember Tony Stark's death? As in, that's a thing that hits different, right? Tony at least kind of died on his own terms. Whereas May was very rudely taken. That kind of did. Well, I mean, it's worthwhile to note, by the way, Jay, that in Endgame there was not one chance to win that battle. Tony shouldn't have died. He should still be alive and well. But Doctor Strange only saw one possibility. And it wasn't when he trapped Thanos in the mirror dimension. It was when he just let Tony die. So that's, yeah. So in a sense, Tony was taken from us too soon. True. But I mean, I just, I get the sense that Peter has not been through an equivalent kind of rude awakening death before. What do you mean? What he feels like he is responding? Yeah, that's the kind of thing. Because even though Tony's is traumatic for him, it's not the same kind of thing where it hits. As this massive fucking punch to the face, it's more so just a tragedy rather than a fucking hell. Fuck this. Yeah, I think it's the anger that seems new to him in this. Well, yeah, yeah. Because Tony Stark sacrificed himself. Yeah, I get the sense that Ben probably didn't die under similar circumstances to his other deaths. Because Ben died in the same way, I feel like we'd probably get more on that from Peter. We'd probably see that in Peter's characterization. That's like, oh, it's just like how Ben died, you know? I get the sense that in this universe, Ben probably died either just naturally or like when Peter was small or something like that. Yeah, we can assume that nothing played out similar in any of these universes. They all had their own different, each version of Peter's different, each version of Aunt May's different, each version of Uncle Ben is different. They died in different ways. If they died at all during his life. So yeah, it's, I don't think there's, I don't think Sandman should, Sandman is not the person who killed MCU Spider-Man's Uncle Ben. Well, he certainly wasn't Sandman. That's if it was Flint, it wasn't Sandman. Oh, for you. Imagine like during the battlefield on Endgame, they're like, you know, there's only one way. And then Tony just goes, can you cast a spell to make Thanos forget his motivation? Well, I think the next part is you say that and it's like, well, this is still ignoring all of the many, many, many, many, many options available to the Avengers. Like as soon as, like, we need to get the Stoads as far away as possible. No, we've got to get them back where they came from. It's like, man, like you are not smart Hulk. I'm sorry. You are not. But he's called, by the way, he's called smart Hulk. His name is literally smart Hulk. Professor Hulk. He's called Pytos. It's smart. Captain Marvel's not even a captain. No, she's, she is a captain. Is she a captain? No, she might have been a rank in the, in the Air Force. I thought she was a rank captain. Yeah. You know why they called it a cockpit, don't you? But wasn't that one of those things that people brought up where it's like, are there many captains who are like 30? Or is it really hard to be a captain by that age? Captains. She's really good, Fringy. Well, captain is a lot. Because sergeant is below captain, right? Like, isn't, isn't it like captain, then lieutenant? And then I get confused, especially with American versus Australian. Yeah, it probably works different in different militaries, although. Well, because, oh yeah, like the Air Force is different than the Marine Corps. And yeah, well, it's in different countries as well. Well, different countries, different arms, parts of the arms. She is only a second lieutenant. Ah, that's still quite high. Second Lieutenant Marvel. Oh, and apparently captain is a handle by 30. Not quite as catchy yet. Captain. Do you say captain is or isn't attainable by the time you're 30? Someone said that captain is definitely attainable by 30. I mean, I have no idea. So I'm just gonna. I have no clue. That's true. Oh, no, I was just going to quickly ask before, how do you feel about the contrivance of everybody kind of being at the same place at the same time? Sandman and Electro happened to be in the same forest. Green Goblin and Octo find Peter pretty much at the same time. I wonder if we're supposed to think there could be more villains elsewhere doing different things. Like obviously Vanham is, you know, I think it's just we got a selection of them. We followed news reports and we got the ones that were making the most noise, apparently. I guess you have to argue that Sandman was interested in that he was following Electro around because he saw him doing things. Yeah, I mean, you could explain the way again that's kind of writing for the scriptwriters. I could kind of get the New York because both Green Goblin and Octo were looking for Spider-Man in New York. So that kind of makes sense to me. The forest one's a little bit far-fetched. Like how do they, all the places in the world, how did they just appear roughly in the same area? I don't know that they did. I don't know where they both would have started necessarily. But again, if you picture, let's just say for the sake of argument, there's like a hundred villains across the earth right now. We only get this selection. It'd be like a world-sized battle royale. You'd be really... I don't know that. I don't know that a lot of the villains might go chill. They might just look at Venom. They might be like, what the hell's going on? For example, like Fisk came through, right? If a different universe as Fisk came through. One from Spider-Man inside of a house. Like the Spider-Man PS4 villains came through. Like Mr. Negative from Spider-Man PS4 was like, I guess he'd just chill out. I think he'd... And I mean, it is one of the most memorable times. That they all are in New York. So they're all going to be on a relative scale of earth. Like they're going to be in that general area. Unless they can move super quick. But what about a lecture though? Like why did Electrope your way out in the woods? They had Electrope down with their energy signature. Well, so he was apparently, he's scared a whole bunch of people. So maybe he was like fleeing that area, presumably, and he went to a forest or woods. Then he said he didn't know why he was in the woods. So maybe he was just like energy, looping around everywhere. Trying to get control. I think we were seeing him actually first materialized, right? Well, I thought that he was the reference. Yeah, he was like, oh, he's charging up. That's what he said. I thought that he was the reference for Flying Monster. I thought that could have been Marco. A Flying Monster, wouldn't it have been more like Green? Well, I thought that was the point. We're supposed to think it's Green Garland, but then it's not. But it was. But I said, oh, never mind. It's just a black man. No, I think you're right, Marlar. What are you talking about? They were tracking what people were reporting in a completely different area as a Flying Monster. And then when they get there, they realized it was not Green Goblin. It was Electro. I thought that's what happened. Yes, that's what I thought as well. But my complaint was like, who decides, or how does it decided where these people spawn? Is it a random? No idea. Because if that's the case, then 75% of the villains would end up in the ocean. They would end up in a lot of awful places. I was going to say, maybe that was what happened. I was about to suggest, oh boy, what if that is what's happening? And then if you're talking about various time periods, like I don't know what the exact timeline is, but if you're talking about Peter Parker, it's got to be the same time. So we're talking about events that happened 20 years ago in Toby Park. Well, surely we have to assume it isn't the same timeline. But Toby Parker is now older, though. That's why it can't be the same timeline. But I'm getting into literally astronomical physics here, but at the same time, if that's the case, then how would 20 years ago Earth correlate to where Earth's position is now? Genuinely, I got nothing for you. They're not going to answer it because they're exploring it that far. That's too hard. Either it's from a different version of Earth or it's from Odochok, like Time Traveled. Is it Pikipoison? It's one of those two. And I don't expect the movie to tell that. I just found it very convenient for guys who appear randomly in the same place. Really have to explain that, does it? No, I don't expect it to be perfectly fine. It doesn't have to. But I don't know if that would hurt if you explained it. A movie of the skill, you got to keep it moving so I understand for Brevity's sake. Oh, I guess I don't want to give it that point. I guess it's more just that it's not necessarily broken. They could have done a way better job. Yeah, exactly. It's contrived. I'll say that. That's a bit contrived. They try to leave it as vague as they can so that we have to do the work as viewers of Inference just being like, I guess it works this way. And then someone goes, no, it can't because of that. Well, I guess that works that way. And Doctor Strange's line is basically the perfect band-aid for it. That's what they thought, which is the metaverse. Or sorry, the multiverse is scarily unknown. A concept about which we know Frotteningly Little. Frotteningly Little, yeah. That's the line. So that's basically their go-to line to explain why none of this is particularly... Makes you wonder, though, why would we know Frotteningly Little about the multiverse if it's like... Oh, because it didn't exist last year. So the problem is that Loki doesn't make... Like, Loki makes it seem like all time from the beginning to the end to sprawled out. So like, to them, it actually would. Yeah. To the entirety of existence. I was doing a joke. No, I know you were doing a joke, but just to make it clear for everybody and the chat of Rooney, multiverse has always been a part of the Marvel Universe technically just because they're only acknowledging it now. Doesn't mean that it didn't exist. The Ancient World takes a strange... Yeah, that's right. There are infinite mult... Infinite universes. So too bad, Kang. You went first. Which means that there's... Hey, we need to fix the timeline, otherwise there are going to be alternate timelines. Another one? I don't know what either of you said. Rags, finish... Conclude your thought. So there should be an infinite amount of Spider-Man villains who know that Peter Parker is... Whoa, that's what I said. Yeah, that's what I said. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. At the end. Only a couple of them get through and then like... He controls the spell after a couple got through from the initial break. Oh, okay. All right. I feel like that's... You put in the little spell controller, but how was he concerned? That was the final stake. I was like, oh, no. So many evil men are coming. I don't sound like a conspiracy theorist, but only the villains that came through were the only ones that had a contract with Sony Pictures. Isn't that weird to you guys? Did they all have... Huh. Okay, great. Great. What? Joking. It was a joke. What a joke. The only villains that got through were the ones that had contracts with Sony Pictures. A joke is that the only ones that got through are the famous ones. I guess what I'm now thinking, because we had the sinister five, right? I'm surprised they didn't pull in a sixth one. They did. Just to get the number. Sinister sixth. That's right. He just wasn't part of it. The sixth one got lost along the way, and then just got drunk. Yeah. Because I was kind of hoping that they'd pull in, like, that we would get at least one villain from the MCU Spider-Man to kind of round it out so we have a couple from the Tazum films, a couple from the... They're going to have Mysterio. Maybe. Yeah, but because he wouldn't be there for the same reason, it would just be like, also, Mysterio was here. Yeah, and Vulture isn't going to be here. Because he's a good man. Well, not a good man, but he's on Spider-Man's side of it. And we're already juggling quite a bit. Yeah. Yeah, this could get really out of hand when they start doing that. I mean, into the Spider-Verse introduced Spider Pig. I mean, you can go crazy with it, but I think that they probably wanted to trim the fat, so to speak, and just kind of make sure that they kind of keep it slim. I mean, they wanted to save their bacon. Yeah. I would say the film probably would have been, it could have been improved if Spider Pig was there swinging around, helping out. Yes. Yes. Can we meet Alice? Let's be honest. Live action Nicholas Cage played to our Spider-Man. Holy shit. Yes, please. I don't love it. I'm just hyped for Nicholas Cage to play Dracula. Yeah, man, I'm ready. He was born to play. Oh, yeah. I don't know if any of you guys felt this, or if you felt that it worked with the character, but I felt like Flint was probably one of the weaker ones for acting, and the one that really stood out to me is when he gets teleported by Spider-Man. And the first thing he says is, what is this? And it's like, yeah. Oh, god. Yeah, that was a bit off for me, yeah. Yeah, he was a bit dull, I felt, but I mean, to be fair, he wasn't given a whole lot to do. So he was like, oh, no, I'm trapped. This is annoying. He just felt like he was around. Yeah, a little bit. Yeah, I was about to say. He was pretty much just around for this film, yeah. Compare that performance with Lizards, where every line is awesome to listen to, because it's like this. Yeah. Verify it. Lizard eats a blocker. I love the Lizard voice, the actor, but I got to say he's the most useless villain in the whole gang. He had nothing to do. So like they try to give him a little bit later on. I like when he sits on the couch and he makes the couch messy and he's like, sorry. That's Mudman, that's not like. Sorry, that's Mudman, yeah. Oh, oh, sorry. You've been in the truck. I thought we were still talking about, I still, sorry, I thought we were still talking about Mudman. I got confused again. Oh, this guy here, from Band. Mudman and Dirt Boy. 11 Months Sub? Band. Band. Band. Band. You could be anybody right now, Caddy. You agree with me? So the crazy thing is that now that Disney owns Fox and all the Spider-Man property stuff, they could literally have a crossover movie with Anakin Skywalker versus Sandman and that would be the most epic fight ever. Well, Disney doesn't own Spider-Man, it's just a still a licensing deal. Yeah. Well, we have Star Wars Legos. You know what? At this point, Disney owns the world. Like who's going to stop them? Yeah. They control me. I'm going to use your character. They're the courts. It's not yours. Yeah, right. It's not ours, whatever. They're too dangerous to be letting you lie. You know, Disney. I feel like Anakin would turn Sandman. It's a gloss, basically. Well, I'd like to see that scene where it's like, and he's like, I don't like Sand and almost like in a Batman-like voice is like, that you're going to love me. And then like the whole, the whams to show the trailer title. I really want to talk about it, so I'm just going to move on now without a second. This movie, holy fuck, does it make fun of the Tazim films? And I enjoyed every minute of it. So first reference I'm thinking about is Electrosy's Lizard, and he makes fun of him for his retarded motivation. And I was like, yes. One of the 10, everybody. It treats the characters from the Tazim movies like they're victims of their own franchise. Yeah. Kind of like it doesn't blame the characters in this weird, nice. Does that make sense? It's not their fault. Yeah, it makes them aware of her. It makes them aware of their existence, but I honestly, I was shocked at how well they handled Andrew Garfield's Spider-Man. I loved how they work with him. This reminds me of how conversations would go when I was talking about Tazim back in, when it came out. It would be like Lizard's motivation is so fucking bad. It like partially ruins the film. Well, there's lots of ruins in that film. But then they'd be like, no, it doesn't. This is great motivation. He just wants to turn everyone to Lizards. No, actually, he wants to make everybody evolved. And you're like, are you fuck? He wants to turn everybody to Lizards. Into Lizards. Into Lizards. Into Lizards. He wants to turn everybody to Lizards. Into Lizards. Like, it's fucking stupid. And that's literally the dialogue. He wants to turn everybody to Lizards. No, I wanted to evolve them to the next stage. Like, yeah, shut the fuck up. Like, oh, I was like. He's like the Lizard Oppenheimer. It's like, I'm become Lizard destroyed of worlds. This is a little pitiful motivation. I'm become Lizard. I don't want to understate, by the way, Jamie Foxx's performance made him so much more charming. So much better. He's very better. Like, he's an actual character. I think he says, like, when he tried to turn everybody to Lizards, he was crazy. I just thought, what do you- His reactions in general are really funny. Like, when they come back to the dungeon and they start talking about stuff, and he's like, man, I love it here. He just feels like a real pure energy. And then, oh, shit. I was about to die. Electro was much, and that's like a through line of this film, characters who had nothing to work with and characters who sucked got salvaged. Oh, I would say Electro has been fixed by this film. He's been fixed. Absolutely, he's been fixed. He's like a good character now. I like him a lot. I'm really sorry for Electro's, like Amazing Spider-Man 2's Electro is one fan in the chat who's really angry. It was terrible. He was actually needed Electro. He was terrible. It was terrible, and then this movie made something of it. Yeah. Yeah, they gave him a motivation. They gave him real goals. But his theme song tells everybody his motives in the list. Yeah, he lied to me. He hates me. Electricity. And Spider-Man is my enemy. Everyone keeps referencing this, and I don't remember it, and I'm not sure that I want to, but it sounds so fucking cursed. It's the song that's playing when he decides that he hates Spider-Man. Don't you know? I'm Electro. And by the way, it's Fair Deuce to Lizard. He basically says the response like, last time I saw you, you had bad teeth and like shitty hair. Did you get a makeover? Like he's highlighting how dumb Jamie Foxx looked as well. Just like, yep, this is fun. I'm liking this a lot. Look, I have crap teeth. Now they're not crap because I fell into a pool and then of course later in the movie. Yeah, I mean, you guys, I want to fight an alien. I like fought a guy in like a robotic rhinosuit. The Russian guy at a mechanical rhinosuit. The rhinosuit. It's like, hey, you're amazing, all right? You're the negative self-talking. It's like, it just feels like talking through the camera. It's like, hey, it's not your fault. It is. It is. It is a good will hunting with Spider-Man. It's not your fault. It's like, yeah, no, it's not your fault. We'll highlight them as we go through, but I would argue it's very clear this film is not only trying to make up for some of the mistakes from the Tarzan films, but also acknowledge, yes, they were shit, but Andrew wasn't. But Andrew wasn't. It's not his fault. Yes. I mean, having him appear before Toby and kind of giving him that, you know, big interest moment. Giving him a meaningful handoff with MJ, you know, and the Gwen thing. Oh, yeah, saving him. Absolutely. I thought that was great. What a fucking payoff period. I love that. I mean, there's so many great payoffs in this film. They do so much with such bad material to work with. Being able to do that for someone else when you fail to do it for yourself. But that other person is literally you. Like, what a... You don't get to deliver that payoff very often. That is a very strange situation to be in. Yeah. But they seized it with both hands. They did it because they cared. The Tessam Spider-Man is recently the worst movies, but I am like super, super happy with Andrew. Well, we'll get this one. I mean, yeah, I was about to say something else, so I shan't. Yeah, my favorite scene. My favorite scene is with Andrew in this film. It's really, really good. So yeah. Someone just asked me, like, Jay, day of the doctor, like, what do you want? I'm not going to derail the stream for that. Sorry. And I think it's worth acknowledging that, like, this very easily could have been a last year, where, like, Toby's Spider-Man had given up. Oh, God, yeah. Ryan would have done it. Ryan would have fucking done it. Yeah, we're going to deconstruct your heroes. This felt like the anti-last Jedi movie. Yeah. We're going to respect the things that came before. Yeah. We're not going to shit on anyone, except Dr. Strange, but they don't know they did, to make all this stuff work, you know? Andrew would have been a psychopath killer, and Toby would have given up. He would have been like, there's no point. We have no right. That's not a point. I thought I could be a hero, but there are no heroes. There are only villains, and I'm one of them. And Andrew would be like, Chris, my will should be imposed on everyone. Like, when they say great power, great responsibility, that's what May told me. Yeah, and she's dead, isn't she? Yeah. There is a world, there is a multi, because there's probably other universe. There's a universe where that happens. Dude, I kind of want to see the film, because Toby just looks him in the eye and goes, yeah, and she's fucking dead, isn't she? All right, I'm looking for a bitch. Oh, welcome to the Dead Relative Club. Honestly, honestly, if I was ever making a film like this, I'd want to do just a worst possible line of dialogue, take and just release that reel. I was like, I could have done this. But I didn't. The curse and take. Don't test me. Release, just release that version of the scene. I feel like that'd be a really fun way to film a DVD release as well. It's just bully McGuire comes through the portal. Hey, we got to save these heroes. I missed the part. That's my problem. And then he throws the bomb at Peter and blows him off. It starts dancing. He's like, yeah. So Peter gets a call from Aunt May. Just everything's chill over in her. What is what would you call what she's doing? May, oh, it's faced. It's like shelter. Yeah, homeless. Community center. Community center. Yeah. Probably the way to drive it. I remember it popped up before. I just couldn't quite remember what it was exactly. You got to play Spiderman video game and then it all makes sense. Well, because it's in Far From Home. Wow, all three comics and stuff. Yeah. Oh, yes. Yeah, Spiderman video is really good. Spiderman is trying to, he's like promoting it almost to the beginning of Far From Home. And then we see it working there with Happy as well. Yeah. Yeah, that's how he finds the place, I think. Well, yeah, because she's connected with Spiderman. And so Norman went there. And I think this is the thing about Norman is that the first information we get from him or at least for us interacting with Peter and May is he says, I need help. I don't know where to go. Someone's in my house. Oscorp doesn't exist. And they just says my son and it just trails off. Yeah. And it's just like, oh man, this poor guy. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And then she says like, he's lost, but not like just in the cosmos. And then she says, are they all like this? And Peter's like, it's not my problem. Their chance of getting help is sending them home. It's what's best for them. And then she's like, is that what's best for them or for you? And she says, this is what we do. We help people. Which was he said in motion. A lot of what's going to happen next. I felt that Wilm de Faux hadn't missed a beat in 20 years. He did a fantastic job. Oh, he was awesome. He was awesome in this movie. Absolutely. He was really good. I like when Aunt May and Peter were talking to each other. You could see him in the back row, just taking food, put them in his pocket. Oh, yeah, yeah, that was fun. Like my only critique of Goblin and de Faux in this movie, if you can even call it that, is I just wanted more. I wanted even more. I would have had three hours of Wilm de Faux, green Goblin. Just being that character, yeah. I mean, I don't think anyone would. I don't think any of us would complain if they released like a four hour cut of this movie, right? The Goblin cut, yeah. We were all well on board with that. I need it. I would probably do that. No. Except for, it's a bunch of old. Yeah. And then so when she's dropping away, because yeah, they all end up in the, he takes them to the sanctum sanctorum, right? And I think when she's dropping them off, she says, hey, he trusts you. She's just going to help build up how much she's got invested in Norman as a result of probably hearing his whole story before Spider-Man got there. Yeah. Yeah. And then Dr. Strange turns up, I think. Am I missing anything? Oh, wait. So they all talk about, they all basically figure out they all died fighting Spider-Man. Yes. And that that's the fate they were turning to if they sent back. But and I think it's well-prompted too, because Doc Ock is like, wait, Osborne, you're dead. And then Jamie Foxx is like, well. And then Sandman's like, well, no, Doc Ock, you're dead. You died two years later. And he describes it as like the news report. It's like, Green Goblin was impaled while fighting Spider-Man and you drowned just throwing your own machine or whatever. And it's like, they realize that's the positions they're almost in. And then Electro, like, no, bullshit. You know, I was about to turn into energy. Oh, wait. No, I was about to die. Yeah. So I mean, I think, like, do I die? Like what what you, you know, Yeah, he doesn't give me the answer for that. It's cool. I like the delivery of it. I enjoy Liz's dialogue. He's like, Max, do you know, do I die? He's got an awesome voice. Oh, he's a fantastic voice. I really like the sort of reverence between the scientists, like how. Yeah. Yeah. How like Doc Ock really respected Norman Osborne and everything like that. Like, you know about each other. There is no getting around the fact that it is really cool to see these characters interact. Because they never have before. It's fucking cool. Especially like between universes as well. Yeah. Yeah. And I think when the plan is explained, he's like, we're going to send these guys back and just hear Doc Ock say, and then what? We perish as he's like aware of it now. I like how they kind of pray the foreboding of like, that's impossible. That's not Norman. And it's like, you kind of, you can really get the idea. It's like, oh crap. Yeah. That wouldn't work because he's dead. You know, even. I was about to die. So it was it. It was interesting to kind of build it up a little bit to kind of figure out the mystery. And you have Norman begging Peter to get him out of the cell as well after what we've just had. And it's just like, oh, this doesn't feel right. It feels. It feels bad. Yeah. And I think that's what that's what I mean. You combine all of these little bits and bobs with what Aunt May has just given him as well and just his general character. And we're again with Doctor Strange moving forward without necessarily explaining or talking about it, set up the spell it's moving. And I just quite liked it. It's almost crescendoing. And then it just cuts as the web hits the box and just goes, don't. And it's just like, sorry, this is the. And it's the one thing that I think I think Doctor Strange would commit to doing that spell. He'd be like, I know that they can all die. It doesn't matter. We're saving the universe. Yeah. Yeah. That's very happy with that. Very happy with that quote. That's the only part. Yeah. Where Doctor Strange feels oddly appropriate. I believe he would do that because that's kind of person he is. Yeah, it's it's weird. It's strange in this film to be like, oh yeah, of course, that's what Doctor Strange would do. I think a lot of people here would probably do that as well. I actually, we talked about this. I think on the expertise. Yeah. Depending on our understanding of the situation, right? So like we'd probe it like, depending on our understanding of how much damage them being here could do to the universe or not, right? I think that's the important thing. How much damage are they going to cause? And well, and if Strange said we've got 20 hours until the spell becomes critical, I might even be like, I don't know if we should even risk it if we're that close. But if there's no time scale, if we seemingly have as much time as we want, then probably worth more. But it's like, yeah. If he's like, there's 24 hours before the spell goes critical and the universe is destroyed, I'm probably like, yeah, let's probably push that button. I guess, fuck. Yeah, we can't risk it. We can't risk it. But I also see someone being like, of course we'll risk it. We're saving lives. And you'll be like, yeah. But I mean, I was going to chat said, Jay would murder us all. Jay Long has run out of time, I'm afraid. Oh, off she goes. But it's gotta head off. It's been fun. Sorry, couldn't make it for the whole thing. But thank you very much for coming for three hours and 40 minutes. Yeah. It's a long time. Tell everybody what you're up to and where they can find you and stuff. I'm not good at these Jesus Christ. I'm working on some movie reviews right now. The Batwoman reactions I'm doing start back up pretty soon. Yay. You'll Dracula. We got to start ours. Hilarious as fuck, by the way. I can't believe that exists. I still got to see it. I love the show. Fuck no, your videos. Well, we do have to watch the show. No, I'm talking about the Dracula. We're not talking. We're not fucking watching that. Yeah, that's if I needed any reason not to watch that show. It was Jay Logbo's video. I have experienced enough. Enough. The horrifying. So I would fully recommend that for anybody who hasn't seen it yet. That was a new video you popped out. And you said you got Batwoman on the way and any other bigger projects in the works? I like I'm doing this thing now where I'm going to basically talk shit about movie reboots. I'm doing the crafts. I'm working on the craft legacy right now. And I'm going to do the Candyman remake sequel, whatever the fuck they fucking call it. And that I think that's going to come a little bit afterwards. And then I'm going to do the Space Jam legacy movie, that one. And just point out and just point out why they're all shit in comparison to the the OG movies. One thing I really hate about the Candyman remake is I really felt they sugarcoated his character. I saw that one coming a mile away. I'm still good though. I gave him a thumbs up. Yeah, that joke maybe that joke made me want to leave faster. Well, it's been fun. Thanks for coming. We always love you. Popping up and good luck. Whatever you get up to. Bye, Joe. Toodaloo, see you. And we, by the way, are like 40 minutes into the film and oh Jesus. Oh man, we're fast. There's so much to cover. Holy fuck. 50 minutes into the full sack. You know, see how fast we are. We're just 10 minutes like that. Bam. We just have it easy. So 60 minutes. We're almost done. So as much as they kind of mess with strange, I kind of get the both sides of the argument. It's kind of like, I don't know if there's like an official argument for this, but there's, it's kind of like the idea like, okay, you're stuck in the control room of a nuclear submarine. You have access to the launch codes and everything to launch World War III and there's terrorists banging on the other door and the the rest of the entire submarine is compromised. You have a grenade and nothing else. What do you do? Do you kill everybody in the room with a grenade and thus deactivating the nukes? Or, you know, do you try to save everybody potentially letting the terrorists access the nukes and starting World War III? Like, what's the, you know, it's kind of like the train track thing. Do you for sure kill 10 people and maybe send, save 10 million? Or, you know, what, like, I guess they don't really have the stakes as clear as they could have in the multiverse, at least not yet. You know, how much damage these these intruders into this mult versus universe, whatever, can wreak. We already know it can cause a lot of problems because there's literally Spider-Man villains, but in a way, like, it's strange, just kind of right, just wanting to say, okay, it's too dangerous to mess with the multiverse. Let's undo everything and put it back to normal. Yeah, I mean, yeah, I'm straightforward to me that this is something they would clash on, these two characters. Yeah. No. Yeah. They fight. My quick assessment of this is it's not that I'm necessarily unsatisfied with the mechanics specifically that we see in this battle. It's that I'm broadly unsatisfied that Strange doesn't know how to defeat Spider-Man. Especially in the Miraverse, where he says, I'm in control here and then he loses. Strange should win. Especially because Strange is, like, Strange is fucking OP as hell. Yeah, that's probably it. He definitely should win. He's super OP. Strange should never have lost any fight that he's ever been in. I didn't like his loss to Squidward in Infinity War. If you guys remember, he wraps. He could have teleported Squidward into the sun. He could have done a lot of things. One of the things he does is wrap his little whips around Squidward and pull him into it, which is the worst fucking thing he could do. Yeah. Come to me. I'm gonna pull him into you. Yeah. There's a lot of little things. You could have made Squidward forget why he was there. There's a lot of little things I like in this battle. Little touches. Now, I guess we'll go. Yeah, there are a lot of things. I mean, I like the fact, for example, Spider-Man goes to, you know, wear the normal thing and he opens up a portal that makes him wear himself and get caught in like a loop. That's cool. I like seeing stuff like that. Question with that. Shouldn't he be falling anyway, though? He should fall. Because like, he is the thing that's suspending himself. In the bottom of the portal. Like, that doesn't work. Unless it's torches, fuck. Well, no, even then. It should balance on the portal. It should balance on the portal's edges. The bottom of the portal. Yeah. But like, what happens if you try to walk? Like, you've never seen someone go to like the portal's edge. What happens if you like, if you put yourself halfway in the portal and then go out the other half? Like, and then you walked into the side of the portal? Like, is it a physical edge or do you get caught in half? Or what happens? What does the portal just expand to accommodate you? It's a sluggish act of edging. I'm assuming, like, as soon you can grab onto it, like, it's a ledge. I'm not sure. Yeah. Yeah. It doesn't look like a physical thing. It looks like it has a little funny, warpy edge. I don't know. But it's got to be a point where the portal starts and where it stops, right? Well, what definitely shouldn't be happening is he shouldn't just be suspended there because yeah, like it's like, it's like seeing someone, it's like seeing someone floating in the air because they're holding on to their own feet. Like, that's literally what it is. Like, imagine someone just grabbing their own foot and pulling themselves up and they pull themselves into the air like that. That doesn't work. Hate to break that to you. You think you know more than Doctor Strange, Jake? Wow. Yes. So, he grabs Peter and puts him into the astral form, which upon further inspection now, you were right. There's little lines coming off of Peter's head to, I guess, signify his spiny sense. Because I double-checked as well and it's like little spiny lines and I'm pretty sure that's a reference to the video games I think because that's why I remember them. I think a lot of things. I think that's from the comics originally, isn't it? Just quickly lines. It was just by the books. So, a lot of them do that, the squeally lines. Yeah. I just remember them specifically from some video game I played like years ago. Well, they were in Spanias before. Yeah. But they looked very, very similar. Oh, yeah, they were. They were in Spider-Verse as well. Matt, are you saying an old video game? Yeah, I think they were like an appears in two games even. Maybe not like transparent like that. I think they're from the comics that explains why they're in so much stuff, right? I mean, yeah, of course, of course. I just noticed that when you got punched out, it's like, oh, there's like little squeally lines. That's kind of neat. Are they like very subtle? Because I didn't notice them. Yeah, they're like transparent. I think you need to see them. You need to know about them, I think, unless you see them yourself, obviously. Because I immediately saw them. I feel like, Belle, do you want to try that again? Yeah, I just... I mean, I suppose it's like that they're like black squeally lines. Yeah, they're very... They're pretty subtle, I would say, for sure. Sometimes they're gold as well. I think it just depends on the artist. So then we get... He's unable to grab the box from Peter because despite being in his astral form, his body is still reacting to avoiding someone grabbing the box with his spider sense, I guess. Yeah, I think that's the best interpretation. A little bit weird. I don't know how weird that is. I don't know how that's meant to work because I thought that we were going to get like a larger explanation because sometimes Peter's powers are slightly mystical in nature, so that would allow, but we never really get more than just this display here, so I'm not sure. I thought that was a setup to some kind of explanation about something, like maybe his connection to different Peters across the multiverse and I don't know, some bullshit. I think that was just meant to be spider sense. Like, hey, look at how cool it is that he can avoid getting the thing grabbed. Yeah, I felt it was a bit weird, but I guess that's how that works. Like, okay then. And then he sends the cape after him, which does tangle him up for a minute and then he makes, like he combines the cape throwing him into activating the mirror dimension, which is probably what I would have expected him to do first. It traps Peter in somewhere. And the choir sings when it smashes and he's falling through the world with Dr. Strange chasing right after him and for a moment there, I'm like, I'm loving this. This is cool. Yeah, this is really cool visuals here. This is really neat. A lot of men swinging through in New York that's a mirror dimension. It's awesome. Oh yeah, that's so fucking cool. It's a soundtrack. Soundtrack is Kill the Threat, this whole movie, by the way. Yeah, this soundtrack is quite good. So many little touches in there. I just love it. Also, I love little touches. Just quick tidbit. You too. Yeah, go finish. Drinker just finished this film. Do you guys want me to read out his small review of it? Cool. Yes, sure. Are we going to be upset or are we going to be pleased? I'm just going to read it. He said, holy fucking shit, dude. You weren't kidding about Spider-Man. They nailed it. Brilliant film. I loved it. Yay, he really loved it. Back to positive review, everybody. Wow, what a cut. Spider-Cut. Spider-Cut? Newest Spider-Character. I like how this in-chat, you got like, yes, no, sorry. Yeah, so many people are shatter-ups. Yeah. It's a, I guess you could call it divisive film to some degree. A lot of people I got the impression J-Log, but it not like this film at all, I think. You know, I got impression. What gave it away? You know, listening. Listening internally. You need to learn to listen, guys. No. You need to learn to listen to women. Now, I actually, this is what I meant when we first talked about this scene. I actually think I like a lot of the choices Doc Strange makes in this battle in terms of approaches to getting the box off Spider-Man. But I guess I want him to do stuff that I don't think about. Like, that's the kind of character he is where I go, oh, shit. That's a really cool idea, using things I'm aware of. That's like the dream thing. But the thing is with Doc Strange is sometimes he just does stuff and you're like, you can do, okay. You know, but no. Yeah. And like, You know the multiplying himself to like 100 strangers and wrapping things around Thanos? Like, I don't know why he wouldn't have tried that on Spider-Man, for example. Even before the Mirror Dimension, he could have tried that when the hands were just dodging him repeatedly. Like he's just like, one gets behind the other one. Desperately fucking need limitations for Dr. Strange, gang. Desperately. And this film does not help. What was that? Give him fucking, just give him manner. Give him, make him limited by manner. I don't look past 12 spells per day. Three fourth level spells. It's worse than... Six third level spells. His limits are not only like, basically limit less in this film. He's also defeated with what feels it's just a little too easy for me. Saying that he understands the geometry and math and thus can web him in a way that was surprising, I guess. Like, okay. Yeah, I was not keen on that. I was just like, no, no, no. My immediate thought was a line from Star Trek Discovery where it's like, this is the power of math people. And it's just like... I made that exact joke in the Theodos. Yes. Yeah. No, it's irritating because like, here they are in the Mirror Dimension. Mirror of Mind, this is the very first time that Peter Parker's even aware of the Mirror Dimension. And Strange, not only describes what he's in and essentially possibly giving him some sort of clue as to how it works, but like he says to himself, this is the Mirror Dimension. I'm in control here. So I don't see any way that a spider boy can go out of that. I just don't think he should be able to... Dr. Strange. Be Dr. Strange. I just don't think he should be able to. Yeah. I don't think he could beat him in the real world, but in the Mirror Dimension, how the hell you beat him there? Just because they showed him webbing him up doesn't mean that it's plausible. Like... Yeah, like unfortunately... I mean, I guess the only way to do it is having to... It's like something really depends on superior reaction times, right? Because that's the only real thing that Spider-Man has over Strange. Yeah, like my immediate thought was, okay, he is kind of clever at the beginning, not the best move, but when Spidey jumps away, he does a portal and another bounce, and portal and bounces him back to exactly where he was before on the street. As soon as you get Spider-Man into one portal, you could teleport him anywhere in basically the universe, right? So you wouldn't... Any universe. Yeah. But the idea... He needs a box. The whole thing of, oh, you know, it's better than magic math. First off, not true. But second off, if we have... This should be where math doesn't matter. Like all of your mathematical skills, all of your incredible intellect and geometry, that doesn't matter here. We're in the magic bullshit realm. This is where you're at your weakest. This is literally Lovecraftian. This is non-Euclidean physics. This is like beyond our understanding of math. So for him, just like, oh, because there's so and so points, let me just do some webs. I don't understand how his understanding of geometry helped instead of just webbing him up in general. He's like, I can now do geometry webbing. He's like, oh, okay. All right. What a lame sequence of words. Yeah. But like, it should have just been... If they really want Spider-Man to defeat Strange, it should have just been Spider-Man is his reaction time is just too quick for Strange, and Strange can't deal with that. That's like explicitly the only thing that Spider-Man has on him. If you were Mephisto, I need to deliberately loses because he wants Spider-Man to continue down this pathway. That fixes it, I think. You know, you're right. That does fix it. Take a Mephisto. One thing I like. And like, it's not too late to wreck on gang. Yeah, I don't see any conceivable way that Spider-Man beats Strange, but I did like that he immediately tried to use Strange's teleporter vice into the prison, and Strange was like, WTF, I created this prison and just walks through the walls. I did like that detail because it makes sense that none of his own effects would work on him, basically. But then, not more than five minutes later, he's trapped in the Mirror Dimension without a sling ring. Well, that is something that's been established since Doctor Strange. They can't change that. If you don't have a sling ring, you are trapped in the Mirror Dimension. Yeah, so that makes enough sense to me. I just don't like how he was defeated in the Mirror Dimension because that would be extremely disorienting for first-timer Spider-Man to even navigate Worldwide. And like, when I was watching the scene, I think I like the idea of Spider-Man using his intellect to defeat an opponent that is much stronger than him, but this is a mismatch for that concept because even with his intellect, he should not be able to defeat Strange at the point he has on display. Like, I don't believe that... I don't believe that the intellect helped here. I believe that this movie told me that the intellect helped here, and I'm supposed to buy it. It's like, it's like, oh, we're in a crazy Lovecraftian dimension. Well, I know Geometry. It's like, that's cool, Peter. Thank you. Well done. Good. That's great, but you're not winning this fight. Sorry. You know, Geometry in a universe he's never seen before that doesn't apply to Earthian or even our universe. Yeah, like, Geometry is kind of... I mean, I guess... I guess he's implying... Oh, fuck it. I don't care. There was no crazy shit he needed to. There was no crazy shit he... God fucking damn it. Tried so many times now. Go ahead. What's what he's saying? Go ahead. Strange should he need any crazy shenanigans. The first thing he should have done is just put him in one of the cells immediately, done. Yeah. Yeah, that's... Yeah. Yeah. He sends him through teleports like twice and then just like, yeah, sell. Be a lot more satisfied if it was an incredibly quick fight, if it was literally over and done in seconds because Peter like very quickly takes his sling ring away and then like webs him up in a way that he can't move properly. But then you don't get the big action set piece. That's the thing. And I think Marvel wanted that. Yeah, of course. Yeah. It's good, Mark. I think that would be a much better battle. I think you could do a lot more with that. And even then like, I think Dr. Strange being webbed up in the real world rather than the mirror dimension is better as well. I think that's an improvement. The fact that he's webbed up in the mirror world completely unable to use a sling ring because he doesn't have it, that makes it easier to kind of completely discount him because he's not going to come back. Yeah, that's true. But yeah, just the fact, the events I wasn't mad at the result. I was mad at the events leading. Because there is a potential chance for Peter to completely catch him off guard and take away his sling ring and maybe defeat him. Yeah, that's the only way Peter is defeating Strange off guard. The longer the battle goes on, the more likely Strange is to win. And the battle was quite long. Maybe right after he puts him into the spectral form and he tries to grab the box, or Peter's body, I should say, just goes out and knocks him out immediately because he didn't expect him to move at all. Just punches him in the face. Yeah, and Peter's like, what the fuck? That wasn't me. Now was that the spider suit doing that? Or was that Peter? Because I never explained why he was able to do that. That's weird, right? I think it was Peter, but yeah, we did talk about it. We talked about it, just the spider's hands. Yeah. Because we had like the tingly lines and stuff above his head while he's in spectral form. Yeah, where were you? There's a whole line about it. Whole whole person. Yeah, I guess I didn't catch that. But yeah, I find that, because like in the other movies, aren't his senses really heightened? It's not quite daredevil heightened, but aren't his senses and stuff kind of heightened in the other one? Here we only see a spider sense in particular, but I don't know. It was always a little unclear as to what his abilities actually are in the MCU Spider-Man films. Well, I know in general, spider sense is supposed to just be, is supposed to broadly be a heightened awareness of everything around him. So that's how he's able to like attach web lines without looking at things, for example. Yeah, he's going to have something superhuman to be able to do anything close to what he does. So what I'm confused about is, can spiders actually tell the future? Yeah, what a stupid question. Did I loop back in time? Yes. So, moving on, he comes back and he says, he doesn't know how long before Doc Strange will be back, but their attack is advanced, and he's pretty sure he can help these assorted villains. And Norman says, hey, you know, I'm something of a scientist myself. He says the thing. He says the thing. He did indeed say that. Oh my God. He says the 2016 meme from I Can Ask Cheeseburger. I was very pleased when he said the thing. I was very happy. The doggo was pleased. Yeah, he said the thing, and it was a good thing that he said. I mean, I love him. I thought that was a little cringe, but I understand that that's the crowd pleaser thing to say, so he has to kind of say it. I like the part. There's nothing cringe about it. It's glorious. He says, trust me, Peter, when you try to fix people, there are always consequences. And then he goes, you don't have to come. And I didn't know you could talk. I do like the thing. Knowledge that I never saw him talk before. That was that was good. He just smiles. That's a great line. It's so casual. That's the thing that makes it. It's like, I don't know you talk, but that's cool. Yeah. He says, if you stay here, you'll have to deal with the wizards. And then Electra says, well, I don't want to be killed. So what's your plan? And so the plan is to take a lot of them to happy's apartment to use the expertise of Norman and Otto and the machine, the replicator, whatever you guys said, well, fabricator to generate solutions for each of them that either depower them or well, remove their like assorted mind isms. Technological and physical. And of course, if they do anything, they will be sent back to their universe is under the threat of that'll kill them. Like that's how they understand to understand it. Yeah. Yeah. I think I didn't mention before. I think when they have the conversation, like just come back a little bit, I think we get like a little bit of a sense where they were before they disappeared, at least for two of them. I think because Electra was about to become like the pure energy form. And then he vanished into this universe. And I think Doc Ock was about to get his power done. Strangling here. Yeah. So they give us a clue. Yeah. Because my initial thought was like, man, if they got here right before they died, like there's like no point in helping them because they're dying. Anyways, you have to think about those. Yeah. That's what I was about to say because then I listened back to the audience. I was like, oh wait, it's like before they die. And if they become good again, and even if they get brought back, exactly where they were, it's going to be different for them. Except maybe for Electra because if he just gets teleported back into an electric current, he's probably going to die immediately. Unless he's just teleported back and he lands on the floor. Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. What would be different about Doc Ock's ending because he did kind of also do the reversion. You will have turned way faster and so he might be able to get to the machine before it's gone critical and turn it off, but no. Okay. I found that bringing like what, four or five supervillains have already tried to attack you into your own secure condo. Obviously it doesn't work out, but I found that incredibly naive. I don't know how better to handle that scene, but it obviously didn't work out, but like they're like outnumbered two-to-one with supervillains inside of an enclosed space. And I think Doc Ock was still like angry. He was just being contained by stark tech nanomachines to make sure his technicals didn't do anything, right? Well, I mean, that's the dangerous part of him. But they have the kills. Well, we had a conversation about this. We did. The other day. They have the kill switch and their motivation to stay alive and to go back to their worlds. So it seems to follow. And the threat of Doctor Strange as well. Exactly. Yeah. If you stay there, that's the first place he's going to come back to. There is a risk. And I think Peter understands that and takes it and then ends up thinking that he made a mistake when the movie's point is you didn't make a mistake because your motivation was to help and you did everything you could. And also it's worth mentioning that because they have control over Doc Ock's tentacles, that's another layer of security there if one of the other villains decides to act up. And because people in Shadow are saying, why would you bring them all at the same time? Because if you leave some of them there, what happens if Doctor Strange comes back? Then those guys are just screwed. They leave Blizzard in a box in a van in the street. What does Doctor Strange do to them if he comes back and finds just a few of them in the cells? What's this plan going to be then? Well, so their concern is that he'll kill them via sending them back in some way, shape or form. Does he not need the magic box to do that? Well, he's Doctor Strange. He must be able to do it one by one. So we don't know if it's something, something else he could do about it. We don't know if yet. He would just straight up execute them at this point. We don't know. I'm kind of, I think one thing could have fixed this for me. And again, this is my take on it. I think there needed to be better communication between Peter Parker and MJ because MJ and Best Friend Guy, I forget his name right now. Ned. Ned. Ned. Yes, Ned. They're waiting on Peter's signal. They should have had a live stream of everything that went on that condo. You know, we have cell phones, we have all this kind of stuff. And if anything went wrong, as soon as anything went wrong, hit the button. That's my, that's my take on it because right, like how would they know it went wrong? They even when their entire, the entire condo complex blew up, they still didn't press the button. I'm still not sure that Peter would push the button when they all start breaking out. I'm not sure. But he told them, say push the button. Yeah, he told them to do it once he sends them a text. Is that what he says? I think that's what he says. Yeah. They were saying they haven't heard from him and MJ wanted to push it anyway. And that's the thing. We have to, would Tom's Spider-Man have decided at any of these points to push that button? And he comes very close to doing it after May dies. I don't know. I think that was pretty, pretty poor decision on Peter's part just to assume that he can, he can cure those villains. What? There were a lot of P's there. It's just pretty poor decision on Peter's part. Oh yeah, that's literation. I couldn't use the fuck out of me when you said that. That's like a lot of P's. I do love me some literation. There were a lot of P's. And obviously it didn't work, doesn't work out. So he learned, he suffers and obviously there's a lot of consequences from it. So I'm not, I'm not unhappy as it played out. I just think that was a poor decision to think that that would work. And with no, no like immediate, but it did work. I think he acted in accordance with his own priorities and ideals. And it did ultimately work. I don't think he, I don't think he did anything irrational or outside of his, outside of his character. Okay. I think his motivation was mainly to keep them alive. And I think that this plan was one of the best plans we can come up with, with those parameters. We have to avoid the sanctum sanctorum. But it didn't work out though. I mean, they cured, they cured Doc Ock, which was a great, which obviously paid off later, but the rest of them, it went to hell. So it did work out. They all got cured. They all got cured so they needed it. Um, yeah. It was a good one. We're up on the cosmic scale. We're up. We're not down because of just Aunt May. Aunt May makes that clear herself that she does not regret this having been the result. Yeah, I guess. I mean, if Goblin was going to turn either way, he would have done something sneaky, I guess. But had they been on like live stream, it's like, okay, as soon as you pull anything, MJ smacks the button, you're sent back to your own universe and you die. Like that, that would be, I think that might be enough for them to like, okay, we're basically a gun at this point. That's the thing, they always knew that that was a possibility. And if you remember, Sandman wants that button pressed, but he accepts that it's not going to be pressed until the others have given been given their cures because he's not actually a villainous person. But when things fall apart, he's like, okay, just press the fucking button. You got Electro who gives in to his desire for power. It was close. We almost had him, but it was Norman's speech that pushed him over the edge. Yeah. We were close. We were close to the whole thing. I was curious what they were going to do with him. Yeah, I was, it's nice to be kind of wondering, is he going to go bad? Is he going to turn good? What are they going to do? What's going to do? Yeah. Again, I have to praise Wilm Dafoe as soon as, as soon as that whole spider sense scene happens and he realizes that, that Osborn is not Osborn. And just like the grin, I was like, damn, he just completely steals that whole scene. I loved his performance at that point when he, when he, the goblin comes back and he's like, that's a sneaky trick he got there. I mean, it's like perfect. Like I'm pretty sure like, I'm guessing that we're all going to rely on this. I mean, Wilm Dafoe, he doesn't, you know, he does a fine, a fantastic job portraying Norman, right? Yeah. I don't know that he could have done that better. I don't know like, if I don't know that he could have done any, if he could have changed anything to make it a better performance of Norman. But holy shit, him as the goblin. That was next fucking level. Yeah. He was a little weak at times with the goblin. I can't forgive any other actor doing that as that well. Yeah. He had, it was, he has a sound a little weak, a couple of points says Norman, but goblin like he, might as well have filmed Spider-Man one year ago. He hasn't lost to be, he was perfect. Well, see, he was de-aged as well, right? I think they're all worth it, didn't they? You just, you just, Wilm Dafoe is profoundly individual in his look. Okay. And I think that that, uh... He has a unique appearance. He does indeed. He came out of his mother's womb, looking like he was 50. Because he went from wrinkly forever. Yeah, he's like 40 to 60, I think, was the age. Oh no, an old man. Put him back. Yeah, change it, fix him. Oh, it's overdone. Hold my people out, overdone. I liked it. That ain't that too long. I liked it when Aunt May said, do you want fresh water or salt water? And I think that Joe wouldn't have been perfect, if not for his response, which was like, like a pause. And he goes, Yeah. I didn't get it. I didn't get it. Fresh water is like, yeah. And the funny thing is, what makes that funny is, that's not a particularly crazy idea, compared to some of the weird villains and heroes in the world. Yeah, I just appreciate it as well. He's in evil mode, but he's still just like, so confused by that question. Like, why? I prefer, I prefer his reaction much more to, much more than just the question in itself being asked. I feel like I'm not sure that I buy Aunt May being that silly. Like he's a dude. He just has arms on him. I don't know. And they really mean really heavy on the comedy this time. I'd almost say that they probably did more comedy in this one than the other two. Is that a fair assessment, or am I just... I'm not sure. There was a lot of comedy in all three of them. Yeah, I'm not sure I could call it. I need to re-watch the other two. With a joke counter, I guess. Like, I don't know. And we don't get to count flash bursting in as a joke. That's not allowed. For a second, I thought you were talking about DC flash and I got very confused, just that showing up out of nowhere. Hey, guys. You don't seem to have flash bursts. I too know Peter Parker's secret identity. Yeah, I think electro and flint share like their investment on why they're here and then they get into why... Like, he's like, how did this happen to you? He's like, fell into a vat of electric eels. And he's like, oh, you're kidding. I fell into a super collider. He's like, be careful we fall. Such a great fucking line. I just like the difference. Like, I fell into eels and I just dropped into a super collider. And then they go a bit further with it later when Andrew Garfield shows up and he's just like, oh, Max was such a nice guy before he fell into a vat of electric eels. That honestly feels like a parody line over. The response is great too. He just says like, no, that'll do the trick. Yeah, that'll do it. Yeah. It's like, that's how my boy Gary died. It's like, small world. And yeah, then Norman and Peter finish the inhibitor. And Norman says, like, when all this is over, you can have a job with me and if you're willing to commute universes. Like, oh, and then some of them I appreciate in terms of getting us closer to pushing Norman over the edge, which is, he's like, don't worry, Otto, it'll work. And then he says, says the man who turned himself into a monster. This is like, it just shows him looking down. Like, yeah. She goes rude. And then you get a mean thing to say. Cool from happy. This mystery is like, you got a cyborg with robot legs in my house and a guy made a mud. Call me back. Call me back. Like the idea is like, damn it, I let these people in my house and they do it all this mud people in cyborg. I am curious what happened to Sandman in between films. Like, is the implication that he's just like, like his powers are becoming increasingly unstable over time or something like that? Just went to the beach. Because he could go back into human form, could he? I think he becomes human. I think the idea of keeping him in sand for the whole movie outside of when he's cured was to make the cure a little bit more impactful to the audience. It's like, look, he's not sand now. And you're like, oh. Yeah, it's all OK now. I mean, I'm fine with the idea that the process that turned him into a sand creature may more and more disintegrate him, his human form more and more, so that he's like permanently sand over time. But I just don't think there was any reference for that. No, like I said, I think it's just to help people who don't even know who he is. Well, yeah. Then you get, they've almost completed Norman's cure. And I just quite like the dialogue where Otto is like, finally, you know, no more darker half, just you. And then you just hear go, just me. Just me. It's like, oh, he's all spooky. Oh, no. Oh, no. I'm a lion. So it did give it away for a few people, you know. Well, I'll come. And yeah, that's the spider sense scene. Oh, no, don't come. We're too late. Uh, Holland Spiderman just sort of like he's working and then he just gets up and the camera follows him in what's. Would you go out a second person view? I think it was cold. Kind of. Yeah. I guess it's probably one of those steady cam mounts that kind of follow that. I know that. What's what's that one director, the director of Snatch likes to use it a lot. Great. His name just now. Guy Ritchie. Yeah, I know what you mean. Guy Ritchie. Yeah, he does it a lot. He does it in the Sherlock movies, too. And in Snatch, I think. Well, uh, the camera follows him out into the room and you're basically just staring with the sense like sounds going off at all of the villains and they're all given given some weird looks. He focuses up and realizes it's Norman. Faster. He's like, that's a neat trick. That sense of yours. Norman's on sabbatical. Oh, what a good line, by the way. That's on sabbatical. Like, are you, bitch? You really think I'd let that happen? That's what Spider-Man should have said back. Are you, bitch? I think. Otto is like, Norman know that he's like, shut up lap dog, which is cool because he kept saying he doesn't want to be fixed like some dog earlier, Otto. Oh, yeah, I realize that. I mean, this is the thing. That's what we said that too. He says, we don't want to be fixed. These are not curses. They're gifts and Electro starts looking down at his little thing. He has a little peen. Little peen. And he says, you struggle to have everything you want while the world makes you choose. Gods don't choose. We take, which is pretty cool goblin line. I like that, yeah. I'm tribute so much to Efeb. Um, it will have the first body fat. Oh, yeah. But only in Green Goblin character. Come on as himself if he wants to. I'm allowed. I will allow that. I guess. Game, but I guess. But yeah, it all kicks off. Green Goblin hits Peter into the staircase. Aunt May is running away with the the cures that they had. As far as they created them. And Electro grabs the power source from the fabricator and blast Doc Ock out of the apartment building who is then seen by the the helicopter outside and presumably chased off because he is currently at large for everything he did in the in the freeway area. Motorway coming. Oh boy. Yep. Um, and during all of the chaos, Lizard just jumps out of the car. J Jota sees that just goes. Did you see that? With everything else happening, there's just this dinosaur man running around. It's perfect. It's like, whoa, this guy's a dinosaur man. Um, okay. That's happening too. Yeah. And then we get the fight for Green Goblin and Spooderman. Well, the first fight and man is it just it just hits all of it's hitting so hard. All of their, uh, yeah. Got two powerful lads just fucking each other up while Willem Dafoe is just one of the most violent feeling fights. Like it does more than much more like real violence than other Spider-Man fights, which are like, you know, pirouettes and cool acrobatics. This is more like, oh, there's two. Do you scratch each other and just punch each other in the fucking face? Groundpounding power bumps them through the floor. It's like, Jesus. Yeah. Like every hit you feel every hit without it, like getting to like Zack Snyder, Superman levels where there are like shockwaves happening every punch. Honestly, that makes you feel less of the hits because it's like it's an unbelievable amount of force at that point. And I don't. Yeah, exactly. You know, the same way that if you showed someone like get hit by a plane and they're like, ow, I wouldn't feel that hit. It's going to be worth mentioning because I want to bring it up. Yeah. Willem Dafoe said that the only way he'd do this is if he was going to be the one that's throwing the punches and involved in the scenes, even though he's like 600 million years old. I want to punch Tom Holland. That I want to punch children for money. It's the only reason he did it. He wanted to punch. Just get some. It helps though. He just beats everyone up for you. I remember thinking, I mentioned this to you guys when I was watching it. I was like, man, I'm not seeing the stunt double very clearly. So this is great. You know, and it's like it probably isn't him that's done double for most of it, which is awesome. Or like, yeah, I'm not sure. If they would have used a stunt double for him. I'm assuming when they do the flips, that's probably not Willem Dafoe. That's him. That's him. If it is awesome. He's capable of flips, isn't he? Well, I mean, he's just 61. I don't know if he's doing that at that age. Probably. I'm going to say yes. I'm sure he did it. I'm sure he was throwing the punches and faking taking them. I just, do you remember the one? It's pretty awesome where Tom Holland, he likes the spider webs at the top, pulls him up. They flip around, then he fires him at the floor and pulls, and so it's like this. Yeah, it's a really cool move. Oh, was that during the second fight at the end? Or this is the first fight? I assume that moment right there, that was probably two stunt doubles. I'm not sure if either of them would have been on that one, but maybe. Epic and pockers. When he's beating the fuck out of him, he's like, strong enough to have it all too weak to take it. It's just like, oh, you're fun. Do it more. And then we got to peek back into Raimi Spider-Man with that. I was like, yeah, okay, yeah. Taunting the Spider-Man, your quirks, one-liners. I like this. Can we just have you eat the villain in everything? Just have his green goblin be every villain? Yeah, like a Bond, Jim's Bond. Not for long, Bond-Man. Will the first face on every villain? Someone do that right now. I mean, yeah, if everyone's looking for villains, this is a fucking hell of an audition tape for Willem Dafoe, isn't it? Yeah. And yeah, there's a part where he's getting punched by Peter over and over again, and he just smiles more and more as it's happening, which is fucking creepy. Yeah. It's like, no, you're supposed to be heard and stop it. They're punching me, Spider-Man. Do it more. I'm gonna react as fuck. He's like, okay, okay, I'm gonna leave. It's kind of funny, right? There was a whole other green goblin in the Taza movies. Like, no, what are you fucking kidding? No, that wasn't what they... Yeah, this is... Wait, that was? Yeah. My fortune don't remember that at all. He was pretty cringe. Oh, I totally forgot about him. I completely forgot about him. I just remember him going... Probably the reason Peter... He was... He, we don't talk about that, okay? Willem Dafoe is just gonna... Like that he's done this. It's like he's already solidified it again. Like it took 20 years to forget about it, maybe, but that'll be another 20 before anyone's allowed to try. Peter, you didn't give me a lot. Dude, 18. I feel like this is cemented him as classic villain status, right? Whereas Doc Ock, classic character status, but he does a lot of different things in this movie. Green Goblin is just like... Yeah, I feel like... I feel like his first appearance is cool, right? The second appearance is very cool, but both of them in conjunction is just cementing him in the fucking history of the great villains. Yeah, I think he's fucking great. His motivation in this seems to be to prove that Peter doesn't want what he's actually doing here and that he should actually take what he wants, which is to use the power he has to do whatever the fuck he wants, because he actually... Green Goblin's under the impression that he does only doing what he does because of Aunt May. Like she's got him in... I think he says like... She's suckered you into her moral mission. And obviously the gods, you should just take whatever you want. So he's trying to prove, much like he did in the first Spider-Man, Raimi movie. You're not so different, you and I, you know? And there's a Joker element here, I think. Yeah, he puts off a Joker vibe, sort of. Definitely given the impression. I'm just sick of Joker, honestly. I do kind of just... I want more Green Goblin. You don't have improved his character quite a lot, I think, though. Is the phone his forehead? No. Oh, and with mentioning, as someone just said in chat, getting rid of the Goblin mask, that was a great choice. Yeah, it was. I don't hate the Goblin mask. As much as I miss the mask, I think it's really cool. I love seeing it. I love seeing his face a whole lot more. Yeah, especially when he tosses the pumpkin bomb, the smile he makes with it. He's so great. I love seeing his face for a lot of the things he's up to. But also... Go ahead. No, just saying it also probably lends itself to more live action shots, because they want to have actual faces on there. And the one thing I wasn't crazy about is when they go all CG, like a lot of the Spider-Man shots that go all CG. And so I feel a little bit less connected to when it's just an all CG fight. So when they incorporate real actors into the fights a bit more, I think it feels a lot more grounded. The problem isn't when it's all CG, but it's when you can tell that it's all CG. That's when it's an issue. But I do feel, especially later on in the film, when they've got all three Spider-Man whiffing around, I can feel the frustration that all of these characters wear masks regularly, because obviously you want both the actors face on display, and you want to be able to easily tell them apart when they're wearing Spider-Man's whiffing costumes. And I can feel the frustration there of just clearly... Yeah, well, I actually don't want these characters to be wearing masks, to be honest. I, in general, I kind of... It's weird. In this instance, I'm like... I don't mean... Well, as a general trend, let me tell you... I just want to clarify. I don't mean that I don't want the characters to be wearing masks. I can tell the filmmakers don't want the characters to be wearing masks. Okay, yeah, you can tell. I was about to say, because the thing that I find incredibly frustrating at this point about the MCU is like, they always want to get the masks off all the time with these stupid nanotech things like, hey, let's see their face all the time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because like, I mean, I feel like a good example is Infinity War. Why the fuck would Tony want to take off his fucking helmet when he's, you know, in a standoff against Peter Quill? Why would Peter Quill take off his mask so that he can talk? He can talk with the mask on. Spider-Man, it's like, there are very few reasons for you to take off your mask, but they want to because they want you to see the actor's faces. And if it was like... Because you look at the Remy films, it's like usually towards the end of the film, you either get the mask off or the mask has been destroyed so much that you can see his face. It's like, that feels to me like a much more organic way to get what you want from him. Hey, stupid nanotech, flip the maskers off, we need to see their face, yay. Yeah, I hate that. At least he's like... Because like, honestly, the scene between Quill and Stark and Spider-Man in Infinity War, it's not the most like, emotionally like put, you know, we really need to see the actor's performance for this one. Like, it's just, the scene would be fine. Like, honestly, just as good if all of them were wearing masks. I mean, you know, it would be better because they have no reason to take the mask off and it would make sense and it would be coherent with their characters more so. Yeah, you want to take off your mask to be very personable in particular, more charismatic, or to express vulnerability to open up. Yeah, so like, well, I think this is one of the things that Tazim does do well, is when Peter sees that a kid he's trying to save is scared of him and instantly takes off his mask. It's like, yeah, that's a perfect reason to get your arm. And that's character in the back. He took his mask off there. Is characterization for his character, right? You learn more about Spider-Man, as you see him decide to take his mask off in that instance. You see what he prioritizes very quickly with that. Like, oh, this kid is in danger and he's scared. Okay, well, my identity can wait, right? He's probably not going to go around telling people who I am. He probably won't recognize me. So, yeah, this is much more important in this moment. Yeah, and that, but in scenes where it's just like, hey, we need to have a quick conversation. Mask off time. Peter goes mask off. He says the n-word. Nice. And I mean, I like the masks they have, you know? Like, they cool masks a lot of the time, but they always want to get rid of them. Yeah. It's going to be very frustrating as a director to try to get emotion out of viewers with masks. So, I don't understand why they want to do that, but yeah, it is kind of a trope. It's like, okay, you're in the middle of a battlefield. You should probably have as much protection on as possible. So, it's a bit of a, one of those things that they have to kind of sacrifice realism for emotion, I guess. And also, like, the masks are not impossible to work with. Like, you look at Vader, right? He's, you barely see him without the mask on at all. Yet, they're able to communicate what he's feeling with subtleties and how the camera is oriented or in body language or other ways. So, I don't think it's as... True. It's obvious challenge for subtler details, but it's not impossible to work with either. I will say that we just... It's easier for villains to... We just got done saying that it was an improvement to have Will of Defoe's face as opposed to his mask in a lot of these scenes. Yeah, no, I know. That's the interesting part, but I guess... Well, the thing is, his mask was destroyed though, right? What I'm highlighting isn't the difference between justifying and not justifying. It's just that it seems that even though Vader is, we do get his emotions and stuff, it's like, well, in the instance of Will of Defoe's green goblin, we want his mask off as much as possible and justify it. He needs it to his face, yeah. Yeah, it's a challenge. Like, I remember in the Dread movie, the Carl Urban one, he never took his helmet off. So, all you saw was like his mouth down, but he manages to do a lot of emotions and actually convey what he's struggling with with just the bottom third of his face. So, there are ways you can work with it, but yeah, I agree, I think... I really like how they subtly built it up, too, because Osborn, basically, he never got rid of his suit, but he broke his mask, and then eventually probably found some... Like, got some homeless clothes that he, you know, probably got at the shelter, and they just happened to be purple and green with like a hoodie, kind of like a homeless person would probably wear, right? Yeah. Something warm, comfortable, and then, eventually, that kind of flies up and it becomes like a hood, kind of like the comic book character. And I thought it was a really... Yeah, it is close to the comic book, isn't it? Yeah, it was a very clever way of, kind of organically setting up his new costume. He didn't do a costume montage over 10 minutes. Because you imagine how cringe that would be. But yeah, no, it worked out. I liked how they did that. It was subtle enough, but I could still tell, like, oh, purple and green. Man, those are some interesting homeless colors. I wonder how that's going to play out. The homeless colors. Just take the homeless colors. The homeless colors. The purple and green. Those are like, yeah, the national flag of, yeah. Homelessness. Yeah, I was going to say, one of the other cooler hits as well was when Lizard tosses Peter back in. He's on the ground, I think, and Green Goblin smashes him up into the ceiling and on his way back down, he like jumps into him to then smash him down through the floor and then through the floor through the floor. I think he goes through like several stories. Yeah, four or five. Yeah, four or five. Pretty cool. And yeah, after that, Tom is basically like fucking ruined. Like Green Goblin's like annihilated him. Man. He's very weak. I suppose it's time to... Yeah, you feel. Yeah, you feel he's been battered and he's weak. Oh, well, okay. Yeah, let's talk about that first. So one of the things he says when he's got Peter by the throat is, your weakness, Peter, is morality. It's choking you. Can you feel it? It is. And he's choking you. It's the line that we were taking the piss out of like only weeks before. This is the line that was used in Doctor Who. It was horrible, but to be fair, it's not as bad in this as Doctor Who. Doctor Who's is your weakness, is morality, and then who responds like... No, and that one is the villain. The villain who's basically not been characterized or to be clear just looks at her and says, morality was always your flaw to which she responds. Morality is a strength, actually. Yeah, that's worse. Meanwhile, in this, you've got two elements that I think work about it. One being that morality is like a system we'll all have and use and stuff. And Goblin, I think, is genuinely advocating for how you just go id, just do whatever you want. Fuck any kind of system. And so highlighting like your morality is a weakness and it's choking you while he's choking him. And you could argue that a lot of everything in this trilogy for Spider-Man, it's his choice is to do what is right, is fucking up everything all the time, which is just Spider-Man in general. And then saying, can you fail it? Like, yeah, I can enjoy the performance. I think it's more relevant to say it, but I still don't like your weaknesses. Morality is cringe. Yeah, that was a bit cringe. I'm glad you brought it up, Jay, because I immediately thought of that Doctor Who quote. I'm like, oh, it's good that it's only coming from him, but it kind of makes sense that he, because that's his whole thing, he wants to kind of corrupt and pervert the sense of justice that Peter Parker has, even if it's not as Peter Parker, he wants to just corrupt that. My instant thought in the cinema listening to that line is, oh, God, someone's already treated this at me, haven't they? Yeah. Someone's already going to get mad that I like this, but not that other one. And I'm going to have to explain context to, or, well, I'm not going to have to, but someone's just going to demand that I explain why I think that one of these is much worse than the other. Jay, how dare you not have a broad standard that applies to every situation? How dare you have nuance? Fuck you. I think the motivation and the response is what really makes it much more cringe on Doctor Who than it is here. It's a little cringe here, but it makes me feel like Goblin as well. Yeah. I understand what Goblin's motivations and beliefs are, and I believe that that is something that he thinks is worthwhile saying to Peter, whereas Tectayune is just like, what does she want? I don't really understand her motives and how she thinks that, okay, she thinks that morality is bad, cool, she's a villain, I guess. It's like Goblin, if you take out that line, you still understand that he believes that. If you take out that line from her, it's like I don't know what she wants really. That is from her. That's the line where you find out that she believes morality is bad. Yeah, it's set up a lot better because this whole thing was kind of hedonism, right? Goblin was like, why should we answer to others? We should live as gods, basically. So it makes more sense that, and also the imagery of him choking, like Muller said, him choking Peter, he's choking on his morality or whatever. Aspirations. Oh, god. Darth Vader again. But yeah, it was a bit cringy, but at the same time I'm like, okay, no. I mean, honestly, there's no getting around it. Green Goblin was always pretty campy, but we love him for it. So it kind of fits his character. And then it'll be interesting to see what you guys think about it, right? So like he's got Peter by, like he's pulling him up and it's clearly vulnerable as hell and Mae is there. She injects Norman with something. I was curious, kind of mechanically, what's happening there? Because I think he said it didn't, he like immediately says it didn't work. Also, I was a little bit like, what's happening there without having. Was it a fake serum that he gave to him? No, it was to be sabotaged. Right, yeah. Well, my interpretation was they were developing that counter serum, but they got, they fucked it up somehow. And it would lead the Tobey Maguire Spider-Man who had been reflecting on it for years at this point who would have had. I had a thought. I thought it was maybe that Norman had sabotaged it to the point where that injection makes it so that he's like full goblin rather than half Norman half goblin. That's what I assumed it was, yeah. And so here injecting him actually makes him willing to do a lot more devious shit, which would explain what happens straight after, in a sense. Right, so that, wait, so now that that happens because they fucked up the serum? So, Norman would have been working on the serum with them, but goblin would have sabotaged it to the point where, remember, because he's like, it'll just be you and then he's like just me. I assume, yeah. But why would he say it didn't work then? That seems like a weird thing to say. Oh, but it didn't work with the intentions. Well, it didn't work because they intended. Yeah, Norman and... It was from that perspective. It didn't work, and he's taunting them with that. That's why I assumed. I'm pretty sure it's full. I'm pretty sure it was full goblin before that, and he just probably completely subconsciously was unable to finish the serum probably due to his goblin, his goblin side just kind of sabotaging him subconsciously. And so I think that his specific serum was just a dud. I think that's what I got from it, at least. I don't think it was even making him more goblin, but maybe you had a different read on it. I think you could say it could be either one. I'm not sure. I can't tell for sure which one was supposed to think is happening there. I would need to go back and look at the scene, because in my memory, he looked kind of surprised it didn't work, but that could just be my memory playing tricks on me. I think he said it's like, oh, it looks like the old man didn't have an enema. She had an enema. She had an enema. Doesn't he have a memory? Yeah. Doesn't he say it doesn't seem like Osborn headed enema or something? Didn't he say something like some side comment like that? I don't have the movie in front of me, but I thought he said something like that, like basically like pathetic Norman couldn't actually make the cure. It didn't work. Ha ha, I'm so goblin. Yeah, and I think he says like, I think he says something like he believed in her bullshit as well. Let's do something like that. He believed what she was saying. Yeah, I think that sounds right. I'd have to rewatch it. I'm not 100% sure. Yeah, I got the idea that it just Norman failed to make a working serum. And it wasn't until all the Spider-Man's kind of put their, the Spider-Heads together that they actually figured out. Okay. Well, either way, Aunt May grabs like a little thing. Just looks like some kind of debris, but it works as like a stick. And that was a plunger for us. Tom Holland. It looks like a weapon. Yeah, it's something that was hanging there. And yeah, Tom Holland is like, run, please run, please run. And then the glider bursts in and fucking hits her pretty fast to the point where I don't know about you guys, but I was like, oh man. I think she should have died there. Yeah. That's that was that's quite a hit. Oh, that's not what I was going to say. So the the movement of it means that she's probably going to have to have died from that. And if she doesn't, it's plot armor. And so when I saw that she was still breathing and got up, I was like, hey. And then I was like, oh, oh, she's probably dead still. And I like that it wound was in her back because that's where the glider hit her rather than the bomb being the reason she died. I think the glider did kill her. And it did. It did. Yeah, I assume that's what. Yeah, it was it was timed. Well, sorry, I thought you were saying that she should have died the second I hear. Yeah, I think it should have. I just wait, but it's not like a big deal because she does die from it. It's just delayed a bit. I was going to say I've seen humans take harder hits than that and survive for a little bit. Like it doesn't surprise me that she could. You know, she only struggles to get back up briefly and then she falls back down the first stage of brief is denial. Well, I was going to say, I mean, the imagine the adrenaline pumping and she just wants to make sure Peter's all right. But as soon as that's sort of dying down, it's just like blood loss, blah, blah, blah going down. Yeah, my frustration with that scene wasn't her. It was Peter because I that scene didn't work for me. Unfortunately, I really wanted it to, but all I thought was your Spider-Man, get her to a hospital. Like your Spider-Man, like I probably like backseat riding, but I would probably either have her die like much quicker or get pinned by the Goblin Mobile, the Goblin Glider. It probably would be stronger if she was pinned by it. You're right. Yeah, then we know that we couldn't we couldn't get her out because he kind of just let her die. I fortunately disagree. Because I definitely don't think he let her die. I don't think he just let her. I think he did. It is in my mind thinking. Let me reward that. Let me reward that. He makes no attempt to bring her to help. He yells for help, but otherwise just has her die in his arms. I know he obviously doesn't want her to die, but I kept one of the most dangerous things he could potentially do is move her at that point. Yeah, could you imagine grabbing her and swinging her around when she's got like a massive wound? That's what I was going to say. Like I'm not trying to be antagonist or anything like that. I completely disagree with the assessment like 100 percent. Yeah, I did. She doesn't try it. She's not going to. Especially if he's emotionally traumatized by her peril. Yeah, and it's like in the last third of her even existence that he's acknowledging that she's even dying. He's only seen her blood right before she starts being incoherent once he sees the blood. Right, like there's something missing for me at least. Like maybe he tries to move her and then she's like, oh, like that causes a lot of pain. Then it's like, okay, I can't move her. That'd be enough for me, but he doesn't even attempt to move her. That's my point. Yeah, I don't think he would. I mean, he knows moving her would be in great pain. Yeah, I'm very glad he didn't try to move her. Yeah, I probably would have killed her faster. I lost my spine. I've been swayed back. I'm like a lot of people I don't know why you would think that though in the first place though, like she's very, very badly hurt to swing her around specifically. Yeah, like, god damn. And also they were about to police outside too with guns. And he did call for help as I can really realize she needs just the smartest thing you can do. Yeah, I thought the scene was excellent. I thought it was fucking fantastic. Yeah, I really liked it. I was I was really into it. Even when I even when I was swung there, I wasn't I wasn't under the impression that the scene wasn't still excellent. But well, I could see how that would damage the scene if you thought that he didn't do much to save it. Yeah, I mean, there was there were moments where I was thinking like where I was thinking, I'm not sure like should he be prioritizing trying to save her life at this point? But I know point was I really like he definitely needs to be doing this instead. Like that was my experience in the cinema. I thought he behaved partly like someone in his situation would behave. No, it's not hot take and comments aren't agreeing with me. But I think there should have been some attempt. And again, like if she was pretty hot, thank you. If she was pinned 100% on board. I just she was walking around. Why would that work at her? Couldn't he just like pick? He's Spider-Man. He's really strong. That's true. And he does lift up the glider at the end. Like my my immediate thought was anybody seen Sines? I know it's not a great movie, but have you ever seen Sines? Yeah, I don't even know. It's like, yeah. Yeah, like that scene. That scene worked for me because there's no way to get her out of being between the truck and the tree. So something like that would have worked for me. Like I'm not, let's say you shouldn't rip off Sines, but I'm just saying like some some sort of obstacle where she, you know, the the the goblin glider is holding her in, you know, holding her together. Or something or even even matrix revolutions, if you see. What if she had a massive wound in her back? But she was walking around for a second though. So like you're right. And then she collapses. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know. For whatever reason, didn't work for me. And I hot take. But yeah, I wish there was some some altered element to that where there wasn't an obvious way to get her help. I don't think there's an obvious way. There wasn't an obvious way at all. You keep saying like. I'm confused. Why isn't it enough for you that she's got the severe back wound and he wouldn't want to move her? I like the spinal cord injury as well, potentially. Yeah, if someone's got a broken neck, a broken spine, broken legs. And also just like if I'm swimming around, isn't that just going to make the fucking blood go everywhere and it's going to be really painful? She's really badly hurt. Like the best he could do is like slowly lift her up and hand her over to the police and hope that they can do his pressure on the bleeding wound probably. Yeah. And he called for help. And even then again, if it's Spiderman putting pressure on the wound. Also, Peter's not a doctor? Yeah. And also he's fucking freaked out. I feel like that's the big thing that's being ignored again. And he didn't call 911. I mean, I just. He called for help. This police outside. He yelled for help once. I don't know. I feel like he was probably emotionally traumatized. He was online in front of him. And he involves the context that he starts just asking us to stay awake and look at him because she's dying. Like I don't I cannot understand how you would say that. Like, oh, well, you know, this is strange. Not going to lie. Like this is a kid with his mom dying. Like I don't just have why that wouldn't be 100% in line with everything he values. He's just trying to keep her awake. No, I mean, I I like both the characters. I wanted to have a moment there. I just didn't work for me for some reason. I thought that there were opportunities for her to get. So I'm just going to. This isn't meant to be like it. If he was awkward when you keep saying like, I just felt that it didn't work. But then you go back to like the arguments that we keep talking about. I don't know. Like I don't know how I don't know how she could possibly. Like what he could have done that would make more sense in this situation other than what he did. Given who he is. The first into song. When I was when I was in the one bring the car. He doesn't have a maybe any way. Any way possible to get your loved one to help. That's what I would do. At least that's what I'd like to help this police. I said, I don't know. Well, yeah, he was clearly emotionally traumatized by the fact that someone he loved was dying right in front of him. In a crisis situation like that, especially a medical one, when you can't just save someone with your normal set of skills, you're absolutely not going to just behave perfectly. And I don't even think the perfect decision would be to move. No, I'm very, very anti that. I don't know why you'd be pro that. Anti moving. Yeah. To like, maybe he could put some as like he could web up the womb, but who knows what. I don't think that's going to work. That would not happen. I don't think that's going to work. No. I mean, if it stops the blood flow, that isn't a terrible idea, to be honest. I don't know. I wouldn't. I mean, I'm really hurt or inside of her body and then she's just going to keep bleeding inside of her body. And then she's dead. They've been the top priority is obviously stopping the blood loss. So let me turn you around and web you in the back to try to fix you. I just that to me just feels really tough. I'm not arguing for that. I'm just saying that that it seems like there were other options to try to get her to help other than yelling for help once. I don't think there was. She was clearly very injured. There was rubble. There was like policeman outside that he was aware of probably. Because there had been explosions as well because he blew up a whole bunch of stuff outside. And like I said, I just don't see. The vast majority of the time after he realized that she's even dying is spent trying to make her stay awake and stay coherent. Yeah, but he fails. So she dies. And police outside doesn't equate EMTs outside. So I and he goes. No, no, no, no. So by asking the police for help. Is our police with standard? By asking, there's a good chance there's medical facilities coming in with them, especially if an apartment building is exploded. But calling to help for the police means the police then call the help instead. I meant to help. Yes. That's why we're saying it's. Police generally given medical training anyway, at least on a basic level. I would assume they have at least one person there ready for medical with considering the situation. There's no. It wouldn't make any sense for no one there to be medically familiar. I feel like the fundamental is I believe that he did what he did. Like I don't. Absolutely go. He's I think better than most. Yeah. Yeah. A little bit. And I feel like any other. And I guess I'm not sure like how much this counts for. But like the scene where he webs her wound feels stupid to me. I feel like I do not argue for that. I did not. I'm just saying that like as an example, like the scene where he does that or the scene where he tries to swing her to a hospital and then she's dead when she gets there. All of these feel to me like worse alternatives, especially in terms of like an emotional impact. There's a guy in chat demanding we shadow banned him because we want to address his argument, which is hilarious because I'm like, I'm just so focused on our conversation. I don't even know what he's like. Okay. But he's saying like what about the nano text save move that Tony suit has in Infinity War? It's like, first of all, Tom Holland's suit is compromised. We don't even know that he has that ability. And thirdly, they're not the same wound, my friend. No, they're different. Like all Tom has. Okay. Yeah. You've been unshadowed. Welcome to the light. I remember all the nanotech he has on his body right now is that little golden emblem that's going across his regular suit. So I don't think he's going to have the healing. That's going to do shit. Yeah. The healing thing would be like a part of the Iron Man suit specifically. And even then, like, because if he had that, he probably wouldn't use that, but I don't think he did. Well, it's not even the full suit. The full from what I can gather. It's this pieces. Yeah, the pieces on ox suit got moved back onto his current clean suit. That's what I got. The impression it was. Yeah. Like he's only got the logo at this point, meaning he might have a little bit more armor in that area, but there's no nanotech ability. And that's probably it. I think the scene is excellent. So was it? It doesn't matter if it ruins the emotional stakes. It's more logical to swing to an ambulance or hospital. No, it's not. To make the point clear, it is not a better idea to swing her to a hospital. That's like, I can't think of many things that you could do that would be worse. Like that might be the best way to kill her. Swing her to a fucking swing her to the ocean. That's worse. I guess that's worse. But like, I feel like you guys need to remember, if we ejected her into the vacuum of space, have you seen the POV shots in this film of MJ swinging around with Peter? It ain't fun. It's not a fun experience. And she's bleeding and really hurt. All right, then. I just I don't know if you're like, that's done. I don't have any else. I don't think so. I'm moving on. I like the person in chat just saying woo. So we got the dialogue. Shadow band. I'm still on the shadow band part of my mind. It's just insane. Sorry. You shadow. I thought it was funny. You kept repeating I've been shadow band because they're not addressing me specifically. Okay. We're going through addressing every other person in the chat. You know, just making sure you're not shadow band. The people I've been shadow band. He man. He man. The dialogue. Norman has been shadow band. Got him. First thing he says, you know, this is before she's she falls over. He says, this is all my fault. And like she immediately like if you just keep an eye on everyone's expressions wants to make sure he does not believe that. And she's like, you did the right thing. They would have been killed. You did the right thing. And he says it's not my responsibility. And what he's referring to because she makes that clear is what Norman said about the humanitarian sort of project meaning what right does he may and anyone else have to decide who they, you know, like I'm going to help these guys. I'm going to make a decision that goes against because he says I should listen to Doc Strange and he's like, he's arguing it's not my responsibility to decide they deserve to be saved. To which she says, you have a gift. You have power. And with great power must also come great responsibility meaning that if you have the power to save these people and you should use it. And then it might be my favorite usage of that line. And he just goes quiet says, yeah, I know. Because that's been his lesson consistently now since the moment we met him. It's beautifully rounds out the trilogy as far as I'm concerned that that core of that basic line that what makes Spider-Man Spider-Man. Yeah. It's great. Yeah, great. Absolutely. I've seen lots of people be hyper critical of this line being delivered in this way. I don't know why I thought it was fantastic. Well, if they're being hyper critical surely, if you don't know why that's a failure on their part. That's like the whole joke. I've seen people say that line's been stolen. It didn't belong to her. It belongs to Uncle Ben. It belongs to Ben. Yeah, fuck off. As if that hasn't been as if that hasn't just been advice given to countless people throughout all of humanity, you should be responsible with your power. Uncle Ben invented that. I've seen people say it was incredibly forced and I think Jay Longburn said it was really cringe. The only reason that I think anybody would think it's cringe is because of the matter. I don't think you could say anything about it being like based on what's in the film itself. Yeah. There's definitely some other reference to it. The Wikipedia page for with great power comes great responsibility. Let's see. Comes great responsibility is an ancient adage at least as old as the fourth century BC in the illusion of the sword of Democlese. So it was first said by Uncle Ben and it belongs to him. I think you mean Uncle Ben Ecclese. And I'm honestly I'm keeping an eye on you. I'm trying to be fair here. Like some people have said it is cringe. Like what's the argument out of curiosity? Yeah, that's like fan service or something. I feel I feel a lot of people say it's cringe. It's such a meme these days because I couldn't get that thought out of my head while she said it's like, oh, this was good, but I just can't get the memes out of my head. I was just thinking about how much this trilogy took their time to earn that line as opposed to throwing it in. Yeah. Oh, yeah. As opposed to throw it in. So, you know what would have been better if she instead she'd said, I'm something of a scientist myself. I'm something of an aunt myself. No, it would have been better if if Peter's dad was revealed to be alive the whole time and then he said the line. That would have been the superior thing, I think. Then they wouldn't have or Uncle Ben was actually alive this whole time. He faked his own death and then he came back. He died, right? What if he just like what if he just divorced Aunt May and then he came back and was like, yeah, power and responsibility and stuff and then he dies. Oh, someone argued that it was a bit cringe because it's implied in Civil War that Uncle Ben had already said it. But if that's true, then it still lines up that it's a message that he's getting repeated. They are together. You could definitely head Canon it that way if you wanted to. That's where she got the line from to deliver to Peter that Peter may have heard it from Uncle Ben before. But the fact that he says, I know, like that's what he's been learning over and over again. It's really fucking hard less. And it comes in loads of complicated ways. And that's what I get when I feel like the whole trilogy has been about. But the idea that he's heard this before doesn't make the delivery any less thoroughly meaningful because this is the hardest test that logic has gone through. Because he went with what he believes in the end and then everything just falls apart. He's almost lost everything he's learned by saying it's not my responsibility to help these people. He's like, of course it fucking is. Yeah, I had no problem with that line because I think that established later on there's almost sort of like a cosmic destiny for every Peter Parker or, you know, Spider-Man variant to always have their quote, unquote, Uncle Ben in this case, it's an Aunt May to always have their MJ in some case, Gwen Stacy. Like it kind of seems like there's sort of like a pattern to that's that Spider-Man and all and all of the multiverses basically. So I'm okay with the idea in this case at May being the moral support for Spider-Man. I was perfectly fine with that. This film argues that she's at the core for him in where it originally all started and then other people have just been adding on to it. To me, people who are mad that it's like Aunt May instead of Uncle Ben, it's like missing the forest for the trees of adaptation. It's like, okay, what we've got here is something that captures the meaning of the original work very clearly and very profoundly and very meaningfully. It captures the meaning very meaningfully. I'm great at speaking anyway. But oh, but it wasn't the same. It wasn't like the same character who said it, so bad. It's like, do we really want to make that a standard, guys? Do we want to make that the standard of adaptation? Because like... And it's also kind of sucks about meme culture, so you've said this, if you put an Uncle Ben into Spider-Man Homecoming, we would just be counting the minutes until he dies. That's how memes work, so... Whereas Aunt May dying here is a shock, is do a lot of people going to be, oh shit, they killed Aunt May? Yeah, it's surprising. So they're able to breathe new life Yeah, it really adds weight to the death that it is unexpected. It lets you put yourself in Peter's shoes as like, oh fuck, I wasn't expecting her to die here. And someone said, EFAP then. Spider-Man doesn't need that line to be Spider-Man, implying we've somehow changed our position. That is still our position. Oh, he would still be Spider-Man if Aunt May never said this. What a stupid thing to say. Oh god, Beth, I tried to chew. We are, we're fine with Spider-Man existing as Spider-Man without that line. You made Fringy do an impression of the train. It's always about the execution. If you do it shit, it's shit. If you do the same thing and it's good, it's good. Was that clear enough? Do I need to come closer? Yeah. Is that? Oh god. Come closer now. No, no sex. Everyone else was doing it. Without that line, that's practically Spider-Man's theme. It's like his entire point that he's coming to grips with the responsibility of having the power to do it. You don't need the line explicitly said to have that theme be in the work. Oh, yeah. No, you don't. You don't. But yeah, that is the theme. But the fact that they worked hard over the course of several movies to get there, meanwhile, everybody was like, who's the Spider-Man? He's just stark tech. He's not Spider-Man. He's not swinging around in New York. No one says that. Patience. Yeah. I don't recall the last time I ever heard saying, yeah, Gandalf and Moria. He was being too explicit to Frodo. I've never heard anyone say that. No one is thinking about it, yeah. Well, now I feel like someone say it. Yeah, you said it then, idiot. Oh gosh, darn. I ruined the first person in the history of humanity. The first person to ever say that. What have I done? Sort of democles. So I've got to pop out for like just 10 minutes, so I'll just be right back. No. Okay, babe. Good option. You're going to put a pizza in the oven as well. Shadow band. Well, yeah. And that reminds me, Rags of that quote from Gandalf. I wish it need not have happened in my time, said Frodo. So do I, said Gandalf. And so do all who live in the sea such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to do, okay. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that's given to us. It's very similar kind of theme. Yeah, that's the thing that I was just talking about. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just the quote that I guess you're referencing that quote. But yeah, it's like the motivational speech, the morality that's instilled on the younger one by the wiser one. Yes, the shorter one, the taller one, yes. Whether you want to do it explicitly, I think it was perfectly fine. I think that, like I said, it's sort of like a weird parallel cosmic destiny for all Spider-Man's to have that sort of character that instills that message to them. Maybe that's silly, but... Sometimes people need to be told things explicitly, especially if you want the message to sink. If you want someone to really understand something, you don't use parables or metaphors or things. A lot of times you tell them the thing. Well, I was going to say, I don't even... Yeah. I don't even know if this is an example of that compared to what it could have been much worse in terms of explicit dialogue. She's prompted by him using the word responsibility, so that's why she throws it back in and back at him. He has the power to save their lives, so he has the responsibility to do so in that scenario. That's what she's arguing, and he agrees with her. Obviously, that reflects her whole job being... She's just trying to help people every day, and the fact that she's encouraged and worked with him to help them as well. She just fully believes in this, and she wants him to take it forward because she knows she's dying, and... Yeah, I like it. I think it's excellent. No problems with it at all. That was quite a scene. Yeah, and then she just starts saying, I need to catch my breath over and over again. You're dead. You probably have not seen more terrible arguments in the chat, so here we go. It was even particularly sad when he gets his blood on his hand, lifts it up, and then she says, are you okay? Yeah. She's not quite. Like I said, she starts just drifting off. Yeah, he's just saying, please wake up, please talk to me. It's really sad. And dear god, thank goodness they committed to it. They didn't pull some magic, Doctor Strange spell bullshit to bring her back, you know? Yeah. Because that's always something that you worry about with this series. Oh, are they going to come back? Is some horseshit going to happen through something? Hey, hey Rags, it's never too late. No one's ever really gone. No one's ever real. No one's ever really late. It's also poetic that she was the firmest believer in this, and she's the one who paid the biggest price to it. Yeah. And that also really drives him. It really builds his motivation up. I mean, at first he doesn't accept that. At first he's kind of like, I don't care anymore. Like obviously that's a couple scenes later, but I like his initial response where he's just like, he doesn't care. He's like, he's kind of lost his way for a bit. Yeah. He regains the purpose. And who better to bring him back? Uncle Ben. Well, uncle Ben. Uncle Ben. He's doing two different Uncle Ben spells. He comes back home. Uncle Ben. He just comes swigging on webs. Like Peter. I don't know why we're the goblins of this era. He has a goblin voice. Willow Defoe's face, their Uncle Ben spider bed. It's Uncle Ben spider bed with a goblin voice. He comes out of the corner. I'm something of a responsibility myself. And then, yeah, we got Jay Jonah's speech while he was watching it. And my God, the shots are pretty beautiful tonally for everything he's feeling. But does that? I thought that was a work. Wait, sorry, you're talking about the scene where he's in front of Jay Jonah. Jameson's talking. Yeah. Yeah, I really, really like that. I like the subtle music behind his voice. It was very prominent. Like it's the only thing he's hearing right now. It's a viewpoint that makes sense for Jay Jonah to have, but it's also a viewpoint that Spider-Man is currently considering, which is that everything he touches turns to shit. Yes. Wherever he goes, chaos and calamity ensue. Everything Spider-Man comes to ruin and we, the innocent, are left to pick up the pieces. Yeah. And this low point is the perfect time to hit him kind of with that message. It will compound his potential belief that that really is indeed the case. And the scene will directly inform one of the last scenes. It also was messed up because it really hit some hard because it's kind of true. Like the whole Washington Monument scene in Homecoming is his fault. He told Ned to carry that device. That was a bomb and it went off and nearly killed all his friends. The whole glasses and Mysterio thing was also his fault. He trusted somebody and he shirked his responsibility and gave the glasses to somebody else, which led to near cataclysm. So like in a lot of ways, like he does the problem in the end, but in a lot of ways it hits him really hard because that's a really valid critique in a lot of ways. He does make mistakes. He does accidentally cause problems. So yeah, I think that was effective. Also, you're right back. Can I get a drink? But yeah, so we'll just be struggling at that point. Bad flisms. I'm strict. I'm strict. Amen, strictly. Yeah. And then we just enter in with Ned and MJ talking about like their POV with a news report in the background. And then just a desperate desire to get to Peter, which eventually the portal starts to open. And they're like, ah, the sling ring is tied at least in part to like your focus and desire. And so they start focusing up a Peter Parker. Get Peter Parker in here. A protal opens and a Peter Parker does come through. The spondos are standing on the other side. But his eyes are much bigger than anything we typically see at the MCU. It's like, wait a minute. It's anime Peter Parker from the Spider-Man anime. And yeah, Swiss Andrew Garfield arrives in this film and pretty much everything to do with him is gold. It's really good. Just like everything to do with Tom Holland is gold. And Toby McGuire. And Toby, yeah. Well, I agree. I wasn't putting him just because he hadn't showed up yet. Yeah, true. And Electro. There's a lot of gold in them. They're health. And, um, I don't make. Oh, yeah. And Dr. Strick. No, no, no. No, it's anti-gold. It's too far. I have returned. Oh, I guess we'll just reference the biggest. He, he, we just, we're just on Andrew Garfield coming in. We're probably just going to machine gun reference all the things he says and how they're really great. He's clearly invested in keeping them calm as well as, because he's just in someone else's universe. But at the same time, he's like annoyed that he has to prove anything because he feels like it's so obvious. And so he just has these little, it's hard to kind of say, but all of his acting comes across as incredibly genuine. Like it's a real person dealing with this. He feels very real. Like it's, um, I want to describe his dialogue as diagetic, even though I'm not sure that's the right word. Maybe naturalistic. Yeah, he. Organic. He, and he delivers his deline. You know, he delivers, he delivers his delines. He delivers his lines, you know, less like a theatrical performer, more like a dude who has decided to say these things. You know, I really, really enjoy Andrew in this movie. I mean, I enjoy all of them, you know, but. Andrew was the biggest surprise for me because I was surprised how much the theater reacted to him coming on screen, way more than Toby McGuire. Well, I think, I think basically him coming on screen is confirmation that the other Spider-Man are coming, right? You know, for a lot of people, it's just, they've got to break the, oh, I've, they've got to break the other Spider-Man like seal, I guess. I think if Toby had come first and Andrew second, Toby would have got the biggest cheer. Yeah, I just got back. What are you guys talking about? The arrival of Garfield. The arrival of Garfield's vitamins. That's the loudest cheer that our theater got. Mine too. Was when Garfield popped up, people were very pleased. Yeah, we were just saying that if he and Toby's introductions were switched, it probably would have been Toby with the biggest cheer just because it's. Yes, it was like the confirmation that the Spider-Man are coming, you know. My theater was making noise right as soon as the portal opened and they could see him in the distance. My cinema was going, oh, like that. And I was sitting there going, what the fuck are they going on about? It's just, he switched my hand. They're about to like, you know, they're about to go and like, they're about to go and reunite with Peter. And why are they, why are they all agitated? What the fuck is, yeah. Wasn't until we hopped. Oh, fuck, oh, fuck. Well, my theater was actually the opposite where it was kind of like an, ooh, when Andrew showed up and then Toby shows up and then they lost their shit. So maybe that, maybe mine was an isolated incident, though. No, when Andrew Garfield came on screen, the entire audience did too. That's what happened to me. Ew, that's nasty, bro. No, coming from such a doomed series. Yeah, coming in a little while from such a doomed series as The Amazing Spider-Man. I was shocked at how great Andrew was. They completely redeemed him in my, in my view. Like, he was never shocked. I don't think that was part of those films. Yeah, I agree. Can we get some references before we do conclusions? He's just awry. We haven't explained anything yet. Everyone's supposed to do this. Okay, well, I, you've slapped me a couple of times because I jumped ahead, but I'll wait. But anyway, he was a good introduction, really, like you said, really organic, natural acting. I like how he was like, hey, I'm Spider-Man. And I love that he immediately got, oh, we have string theory multiverse. Yeah, I get it. Like, he immediately got it because he's, he's like a nerd and he thinks about this stuff all the time. I think of all of the pictures. He is the one character I see as the most academically, like, science-y smart. Yeah. Yeah. So I love the fact that he got it immediately. It was, that was great. I love that. It's like a theory that he had had for years and this just confirmed it. And so he was like immediately totaled and bored with multiverse. So I think that was a fun, because you normally expect it to be weirded out. It's like, oh my God, who are you? I'm Spider-Man. You're not Spider-Man. Well, to be fair, he had already been there for like two days to figure it out. Yeah. So it wasn't, it wasn't necessarily instant. He was like, oh, I'm in the multiverse. Okay. Someone said they hated how Ned was able to open portals without training. He has to try quite a few times. And in Doctor Strange, they do establish it's less to do with like some kind of mechanical muscle you're doing. It's more so, like I can't remember what the ancient one says specifically, but much more about wanting it. Which is that he had to let go or something, right? Yeah, because she puts him in like the Himalayas or some shit. So he has to open the portal to save his own life at that point. So that's how she gets him to do it. It's not like, you know, you're doing a punching bag for 10 weeks and then you can punch better. It's like literally just a matter of your mental state. And Ned really wants to see people. Well, Strange was skeptical. That's why. Where Ned wasn't skeptical at all. Yeah. Well, why would he be, you know? He knows Doctor Strange at this point. Because he already believes he's magical. Yeah. And he also, yeah. Yeah. Someone said you're not actually arguing this play, are you? It's like, rewatch Doctor Strange, bitch. That's how it works. I'm just following. My thought was literally just when I saw this, it was, I'm not sure if Ned should be able to do that. I would have to rewatch Doctor Strange to check. That's how I remember it. I'm happy to trust Wombo on this. Well, it's worth remembering the portals seem to be like the easiest thing you can do as a magician, you know? Yes. It's much more about having a sling ring than it is about having training. No, that stick magician. Magic is not balanced. No. Yeah. I agree that it should be balanced better, but it isn't. That's how it works in Doctor Strange. You know, thanks to Doctor Strange and all the other stuff. Yeah. And whoever you can cast runes without even knowing what runes are. All right. And that's the only thing Ned, that's the only thing Ned can do. He can't even close them by themselves. And he can't do them well, you know? Yeah. It's not. No. I like, I like actually like how they built it up because in the beginning at one point, Strange is like, you can't just do magic on your own kind of thing, like kind of dismissing Ned. And then Ned accidentally opens the portal, like after a little bit of nudging from MJ. And then. A little bit of Ned. He doesn't know how to. He doesn't know how to. You don't know. You don't know. Nedging, yeah. I'm sorry. I'm actually sorry. And yeah, you should be. And then. No, no, Jay. Hold the line. After he manages to open it later on, they realize they have no idea how to close it. But then after all of that, they managed to get Strange back in. And then after that, Strange is like, wait, did you just open a portal? And he's like, yeah. And he kind of gives like a slight. Break moment. That was like way harder. That was basically you get the, the subtext is like, this is way harder for me to do. You, you little. Yeah. This is sort of. Like getting a plug and a thing. Yeah. Kind of think from him, you know. Yeah. Interesting. About as much respect as you're going to get from him, basically. Someone said, so it's, it's not okay in Doctor Strange, but it's okay here. Okay. It's like, so that's not what we said. What? That's what we said. That's what we said. No, that's what we said. That's what we said. We got it. What are you listening to? You nailed it, commenter. So. The idea being, I don't even like portals. I think that once you introduce them, it's over because Doctor Strange can kill everything. Yeah. Chop everything up. You gotta have some rules, motherfucker. But we got him, okay. And so if you're like, okay, but how do you use them? It's like, I want that a high fucking skill level. I want that top tier. And the Doctor Strange went, no. I was like, I guess that's just how it works then. And so the other films have an obligation to follow those rules, unfortunately. Yeah. Now that that is established, either it could be, I could be retconned, and that'd be neat, I guess. But since it's been established that portals are pretty easy to create in Doctor Strange, then yeah, it's fine for a character to pick up a sling ring and be able to create a portal. The, I think the probably the best way to do it now would be to say that like sling rings are like super valuable and super difficult to create themselves. That's the hard part. Right. And that anybody who has a sling ring can potentially use it. Oh, evil. Yeah. So to highlight for that person is very confused. If Ned couldn't do it whatsoever, I'd be like, pretty sure that's not how it works. No way home. You're kind of breaking rules there. Well, I don't know. Maybe because like it's still established that there are boundaries to casting portals, right? Like it's not super easy. It's not super easy. You have to put the sling ring on and then think hard about where you want to go. Everybody is capable to some extent. Far as I know. Yeah. Unless I've misunderstood that entire scene from Doctor Strange. Well, that feels contradictory. Like I don't feel like the point in Doctor Strange is yeah, only some people can do this. Feels against the message of that film, you know. Yeah. Anyone can learn, but you have to really want to learn. You got trial. Yeah. But sling rings are not on where you really have to try hard. Like sling rings is yeah, it's about a frame of mind that you could be in naturally, but you also if you're not in it naturally, you have to train yourself to learn it. But like. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know about you guys, but I was like, oh, that is kind of neat. That probably would happen. Yeah. If he's fucking around with that sling ring and he really wants to find Peter and a portal opens. The only mechanical failure there is just the world assumed he was looking for a Peter Parker that wasn't the one he was looking for, which is like. Yeah, you literally like dig on LA in Harry Potter. Are you just not specific enough? I guess. Yeah. Um, I guess I can see how the world would be confused about that. Well, there's three Peter Parker. As far as the world is confused that like, yeah, that's the same person though. I'm willing to forgive the universe for getting confused because the universe is literally confused right now. I know the MCU universe. I don't blame it for being fucking confused as to what the hell is going on. Yeah. Yeah, like, so he's like, I'm Spider-Man. They're like, I don't believe it. So then she says, prove it. It throws bread at him. And he just goes, why'd you do that? Yeah. He just like lets it hit him because it's bread. You have the tingly thing. I do have the tingly thing, but not for bread. That's great. A little bit. I already know this is later, but when he says, like, don't throw the bread again, later on when he's attached to the wall, she does casually throw it. While someone else is talking, he's just shaking his head at it, like, on that bread again. Crawl around. It's like, no, I think this is plenty. No, I think it's pretty good. It's pretty plenty. Seriously, I don't want to undersell. It's just such a great performance in the littlest of ways because she's like, crawl around. Yeah, it really is. Just crawl around. No. No. And yeah, when they're sort of chill with him, and then they're like, what do we do? She's like, create more portals until you find the real one. He just goes, ouch. Which to me, again, feels like kind of a meta line. Just, he's the ugly duckling. He's not the Spider-Man. This might be probably takes the piss out of himself a lot in the moment. I love it. This will probably be a film we reference a lot in the future when we talk about acknowledging metas in a good way. Yeah. But a lot of people are going to say that that's your bias speaking rags because you like this, but with the other ones, you didn't. So there must be an inconsistency to it. But it is good. You're right. But the compliment is to dialogue that fits the characters and the situation but also means something if you consider the meta. That's pretty cool. Well, I think so, yeah, because this may be a topic, but so it's really bad when you look at like the Mandalorian the ending and you think that's just awesome just because they did the fan service thing. It is equally as bad to think that something sucks just because it also has fan service to it. There's right way and a wrong way to go about doing this type of thing. I think this is a good way of doing it. And I don't think that the other movies are going to do it well. I think that they're going to take the wrong message from this film. I think that is a big worry. Yeah. People love this movie. Exactly. And maybe they don't even quite grasp that it's like, man, actually worked really hard to make it meaningful here. And I don't know that it's going to be meaningful elsewhere. It's like the opposite. Once they've seen, they've seen the success. Just do the thing. Just camios everywhere. Multiverse, bring them all in. Throw them in. Hey, look, we can even have maybe Chris Evans come back to play fucking human torch. Human torch. That would be so cool. Mr. Tiger. In America. Wouldn't that be great? That would be funny. Funny, funny joke, funny. So it's not that you're missing the fucking point. You are. Well, yeah, because there's a reason these two Spider-Man are here well beyond fan service. Of course. It's a question of not... It isn't a question of the what you're doing. It's the how you're doing. It needs to all line up. Because I mean, you know, the reality is this film probably was like the premise was probably cynically created. It's like, hey, wouldn't it be cool if we had all three Spider-Man? That'll make us a lot of money. But then someone got given that and tried to make it work. And they did. John Watts. John Watts did. He got handed this and he made it work because he gives a shit. What would I know him for doing? I'm not good with director names. Spider-Man. He did all the Spider-Man films. The MCU. All in this, in this trilogy? Yeah, yeah, yeah. He made this trilogy. Okay. I got you. Now he's doing Fantastic Four and I'm looking forward to that one now. Me too. I am. Yeah. I am. I want to see what he does with Fantastic Four. Here is his filmography if you want to take a sneaky peek. I've charted his career on this filmograph. Oh, he came from the onion. He used to work on the onion. That's crazy. Huh. Good friend. So then Tobay. Because of that. Oh my god. Tobay. It went pretty well in my cinema because the reactions from the audience timed just right with how they all went like, oh, yeah, oh, yeah. And then they went silent just right when that was like, oh, it's just some random guy. Oh great. It's just some random guy. Hey, I just stepped through this turns around before I was gone. It's like actually a random guy. Yeah. What I really liked about that is that they didn't realize that they are being called. They thought they were the ones that were intruding, which I thought was kind of fun. It's like, sorry, but I walked through this thing. They thought they were the ones who kind of like overstepped their boundaries, which I thought was a pretty fun natural reaction because they didn't know that they were being summoned through a sling ring or have any concept of what a sling ring was. That's right. The Avengers don't exist in the world as we like to learn with the wonderful line. I was part of the Avengers. The Avengers? That's great. What is that? Are you the band? I love that line. I kind of wanted, like if I wanted anything more from like Toby, I would almost want more reactions to like the existence of other superheroes and stuff like that, if only to please that very like, that part of me that wanted Toby to join the Avengers back when the Nick Fury post-credits scene happened all the way back when. Right. I mean, I guess I think it's a cool dynamic to have basically two out of three of them exist in universes where there is nobody else. Give this out, buddy, in the MCU something that he can give to them that they don't have, which is the value of teamwork. That whole scene was really cool, though. Yeah. Could you imagine, like if you said even a couple of years ago, yes, you're going to watch a Spider-Man film where all three of the Spider-Man from the different films come together to like fight all of the villains from the old films. Yeah, it's like, yeah, right. Yeah, we are. No way. Then I can do that. Even in the world of Avengers, even in that world, three Spider-Man. Yeah, I feel like it honestly feels like a more unlikely thing than the Avengers as a concept. Because it's like, well, they're all kind of connected together. They're all part of a shared universe. So that's something. But like from different films that are spread out over the course of 20 years, no way. Now the answer is yes, but now I get very worried about what's coming next. Yeah. Do you hear the rumor that they're going to bring Hugh Jackman back to play Wolverine? No, no, no, no. I thought he was done with that. I thought he was too, but I thought Patrick Stewart was done with it too. And it seems likely that he's got to be in Doctor Strange. Cease and desist. Star Trek Picard didn't work out as well as he thought. Yeah, covered back. But if if the rumors are to be believed, like, how can I ruin the X-Men too? Well, I mean, again, if people in chat don't know, the reason why they've been doing these reshoots has been stated many times for more cameos to get more people in. More references. Cease and desist. And apparently the side of the reason was, well, look at Spider-Man and Loki. Look at the success that came from that. Now, I guess they've got more of a point for this, but from Loki. Holy shit. Talking about a fucking bad influence. Yeah, but imagine they shot this film and then they did reshoots to include all characters. Like, imagine the fucking mess we'd have on our heads if that's how this had been made. Like, I mean, you know what? It's always possible that that could turn out well, right? Well, I mean, well, in the case of this film, I think it was talked about, that they were like trying to figure out the script as they were shooting it. You could see traces of that, but goddamn, does this film hold together better than you would expect for a film that's not finished when they were, but as so is really impossible to fall out to? Yeah, it's not weird that Mission Impossible and this like are better written than most films that are scripted well in advance. Well, it does seem like- Just goes to show. Don't plan. It seems like when you look at a lot of Marvel projects that like they don't know what they're doing. I think the most concerning thing is when the director say, I don't know if that's canon or not. I didn't know about that. Yeah, I'm not sure what the answer is to this thing that was in my story. It's like, holy shit, how much do you not know? You should know more than anyone else in your film. You're the god of this universe. You better fucking know. Well, I mean, I'm pretty sure there was a person, one of the writers for Eternal said, yeah, I don't know if they ever interacted with any other Marvel heroes. It's like, what do you mean you don't know? You have to know. You broke this. Just goes to show that just give this money to just fucking everyone they want every single person. Well, then why haven't they given it to me? Well, you didn't apply. I feel like you might give it more deeply ingrained problem of like, this isn't storytelling, guys. Like you're just, you approve the projects, then you get the people to come in to make the projects. And you don't tell them everything because if you tell them everything, then they might spoil something. So none of the actors know everything that's going on. None of the writers know everything that's going on or the directors. And it's meant to just like come together. How is it possible? How is it even remotely possible to do it to like consistently do well? Like how do you meant to get constructive feedback of everyone is getting different pieces of this jumbled whole? Yeah. Yeah, Hollywood is weird that way. Like I read so many different production stories of movies, though sometimes a movie idea will sit on the shelf for like 10 years. And then it's like, oh, we want to do this, revamp the script and we'll shoot it and get it done this summer. It's like, it goes from like, slow, slow, slow development hell to like, okay, we got to get this done right now. We're shooting in two months, get all the cast crew, producers, whatever, whatever it takes, get it done because we need a Q4 movie or whatever. It's like, it's weird how it can be extremely slow to get things done, but also incredibly rushed to get to the finish line sometimes. I guess that's the business part of show business, right? These are companies that need to make money as well. It's like, it's something exactly like AT work. No, it's time, it's time. Then all of a sudden, we need to do it now. Wow, it is this situation with Marvel where it's like, they probably are the envy of the entire industry that they just have like an assembly line that is consistently like every couple of months, there's something new coming out and everybody really likes it for the most part because basically everything from phase four has been received pretty well. Yay! Yay! You can talk about movie, Bob, yeah. Well, I mean, yeah, because he loves all of it. And it's like, man, what a great system from a monetary standpoint where you have like 10 projects all at once that don't really connect together that well despite the fact that that's the whole selling point of this universe, but it comes out consistently and everybody likes it and you make a bunch of money. But is this the best way to tell stories? Probably not, yes. But have you considered that Rachel Weiss has pigs though? Yeah, that's true. She does have pigs in her farm and ain't that neat. And then she nearly chokes once to death because she's a horrible monster. She's a bad person. Oh, yeah. It's also insane. It's really sad to see Eve up defending this movie. They're coping so hard, which sounds like a code. You're coping so hard. It's like a great argument. I feel like that's the immediate thing because you see people in shadow, it's like, ah, they're biased towards MC Spider-Man. Man, you're biased against MC Spider-Man. I'm sorry. I mean, I enjoy the film, but I've been very critical of it this whole time. People are just making arguments. When people are just presenting arguments as to why it's good and you go, oh, wow, they're coping so hard. That's some of the actual hardest cope I've ever heard. It feels awkward because it's like, it's not cope. I really like this movie. I'm not sure. Absolutely. And we can identify many reasons why. I don't know if you can talk me out of the positions on the writing as well. It's like, man, this is some good stuff because it is often very well written this film. Yeah, character writing is really fucking good. I don't know how to talk you out of the position. You would have to change the film. You would need to present some really compelling arguments for why the character writing isn't good. It should not be news to anybody that we value characters above everyone else. So if the characters are really good or something, you should think that we're going to probably rate it pretty positively. Wait, so what happened with the Suicide Squad? We haven't even gotten to numbers for this film yet. Absolutely. We'll get that to the end. That should be fresh on people's memory. Yeah, I guess that actually reminds me a lot of the Suicide Squad and that some of the arguments are pretty far from the terms of character is great, but some plot issues, obviously, with that film. So, I forgot what it is. I've been bringing up problems all stream. What the fuck? It's like, you just haven't been acknowledging them. I'm sorry that I haven't seen your specific things in chat throughout the whole fucking stream. There are 2,000 people watching. It's true. How do people hear? Okay, give us your biggest problem with the film. No, actually, yes. Actually, yes. Do that. Go on. Let's do it. Let's do it. Just, it better be one what we haven't already conceded. Yes. Or not one that we've not got to yet. That's not allowed either, right? Yeah, that ain't allowed. The biggest thing that we've missed and coped over. Please state a coping example. Hopefully, we'll temporarily... We're in this spotlight. Here you go. We'll temporarily unshadow ban all of you. Grow up, Friggy. Oh, this is how chat looks like with... If you unironically use the term cape shit to describe all, like, superhero films, you dumb. Oh. That is one of those things I hear from people. I'm like... It's like, oh, look at me. I'm an elitist. I think I'm smart because I don't like superhero movies. Yes. I like boring films. Hassan would be proud when literally asking you to present your argument. We haven't banned anybody. Hassan would have banned you. And you're not going to be banned for it. Meming about this bannable shit for, like, months now is like, oh, good, fuck off. Jesus. So plot-wise, we get both the other Peters and then they... Oh, wait, was there... I don't know if... Jay, are you doing a thing with someone in chat or no? They haven't responded yet, though. Well... Sorry, I don't know. I think you called me a bot. There we go. There we go. MIT girl never gets out of her car. Bomb goes off in Peters' face and Strange doesn't grab the cube when he puts Peter in the astral room. So first of all, she tries to get out of her car but it's blocked and on the other side, she can't get out because the door is blocked by... I wish to deliver it. That was wrong. Next one. Bomb goes off in Peters' face. It's like, he is badly hurt. He's talking about how he's got a fucking broken rib. But also, we know that people survived those because that same bomb was thrown at Harry and he survived it. And he's human. Plus, Green Goblin didn't want to kill him there. He wanted to turn him evil. He was boosted but still, it didn't kill him. So I guess all you can complain about is that it didn't horrible scar on his face but he's got blood in his eye. Didn't want to go off in Toby's face as well. I think it did and it hurt him bad. Yeah, it did. They don't kill you in the golf. These bombs aren't super deadly, super big bombs. They're little bombs that do little bad. And in the third one, Strange doesn't grab the cube when he puts Peter in the astral realm. He tries. It doesn't work. What do you mean? It's very... And also, you typed in Anna mutilated Harry and question mark and exclamation mark. So we addressed that. I guess you moved past the first one that you were wrong on. And on the third one, he tried to grab it and it didn't work. And we were critical of that. Honestly, even if all of these problems were... Does this destroy the movie? I don't think it would take the movie down even a point. Yeah. Like, these are all just kind of small things that you're like... Well, I mean, I don't think... And this goes for everything that is not even accurate. I don't... And this is the problem. Well, look, if they were... Well, apparently Harry had upgraded the bombs in Spider-Man 3. So the ones in the first movie, I guess you didn't use the vaporizing one, but that... It didn't vaporize it blew up. It wasn't that one. It was not a vaporizing bomb. Do we fit? The vaporizing bombs we saw. And Goblin doesn't want to kill him. And the first Spider-Man we saw. Goblin doesn't want to kill Peter in this scene. He doesn't want to kill him. Yeah. He wants to turn him evil. Man, swing and a miss. All right, moving on. And I do get a sense of that with when I see people being like, wow, Longman should be tearing this apart. Not praising it. I'm like, I think you may be mistaken on what you think are flaws in this film. I've heard a lot of mistakes from a lot of people about what is wrong in this film. I don't think we're talking about flaws in the film. I don't know what... Like, I'm not sure what else... Well, yeah. You'll be talking about fucking friends when we're three. You're biased towards MCU Spider-Man because you don't agree with my wrong arguments. That's how it feels sometimes. And there's more film to go. Believe me, we've got more criticism to come. Hang on. Did someone just say... Someone just said Loll, and then in quotes, you're just wrong. We explained thoroughly. He explained thoroughly all of the reasons. Then ended with you're just wrong. I'm not even going to bring up original Spider-Man grenades because we don't see those vaporizing grenades in this movie. So we don't know if that's multiple types of grenades. I think we would have seen a different animation if it were the vaporizing grenades. So it's not the vaporizing grenades, you know? Yeah, like he would have been vaporized. Probably. Yeah. We've seen the explosive ones whenever Harry got this face blown up, like we said. And then... So we know that. And when Spider-Man got his face blown up in the first movie. Yeah. Peter did absolutely nothing to stop Strange from performing the spell. Shake my head. Okay, we're out. Let's just carry on, then. What? We already fucking discussed this. We're just going to carry on now. It's great. We're going to carry on. Does everyone want to just come in late? Okay. Okay. While we're talking about fantasy, have you read movie-by-reviews? By the way, your insistence on dunking on chat is probably why your audience is ever shrinking. It's bigger than it was when it started. And we're never changing that. You guys aren't safe here. I'm sorry. What kind of standard is that? That you can just shit on us. We address that. Like, we're not allowed to do that anymore. Have you seen how much people have been complaining that we've not been responding to their arguments? And then we did. And now we're getting trouble for it. Like, the whole, like, you know, never be critical of your audience things. Like, that doesn't fly here. People were complaining that we had to ban them because we weren't responding to their arguments. Like, the first time that we did, that was wrong. Bro, like, I feel like, I feel like, and I, you know what I acknowledge is probably it's not all the same person saying all of this stuff. But I feel like someone's probably there picturing, like, a world where when we don't immediately acknowledge and just agree with the thing they said, that we are doing something wrong. There's some deep insecurities here. I think it's just, I just, I think it's that these people haven't conceived of a world in which they're wrong. So they're frustrated. I don't know. They're frustratedly typing this stuff in chat. And it's like, if only they could, if only they were paying attention and seeing me, they would change their minds. It does, it does feel a little bit like that, right? Because you're just like saying, like, oh man, you're so fucking wrong, that shit. What a dumb argument. Jesus, you're being inconsistent. And then immediately someone's like, oh, you specifically, like, present your argument. And then you get, like, freaked out by that. And then they're like, it's wrong to be critical of your chat, by the way. Yeah, and it's okay that you, it's okay that you did bad arguments. That's fine. Well, you know what, it's a mental done them at a time. Well, I mean, you know, I'll just go, I got feelings too, you know, like I don't like when people are shitting on me. Like that's not fun. So of course you're going to get your arguments addressed. I don't think you have feelings. What, you're saying plague doctors don't have feelings? Wow. Wow. Okay, you. What a disgusting, despicable thing to say. Geez. What are you going to do? Cry? No, you're not. Dude, Fring is going to put some dirt in your eye. Oh, it's about to stay. So I'm going to go on your suit. I've got a small critique coming up chat, like a like a relatively minor one. So don't worry. We're going to talk about flaws. I'm going to go. That was a great sound bite. Someone used that in a meme. So yeah, I will. Next up, I guess is when the, the Peters meet or the meters Pete. Yeah. Don't talk about Peters meet. I was just a few seconds away from that joke. You got to be quick. Very nicely done to the round here. You're not sleeping around here. Ned and MJ give him a big old hug flumes first. And then they're like, there are other people here. And I kind of enjoy that. Tom is just so fucking stressed out right now that even seeing them, he's just like, he almost thinks they're going to be antagonistic in some way because he's just so stressed out. And one of the first things Andrew tries to do is explain that they're like a good source of help here that they've happened to. And then Tom immediately is just like, please don't tell me you know what I'm going through. And Andrew's face when he says that. To be fair, all of their faces on the scene. Yeah, fucking Andrew carries that scene. I love Andrew in that scene. It's my favorite scene in the movie. I'm willing to say that he was great. I and Len stand that he carried the scene. I think all three of them brought that scene up to exactly where it was. Yeah. To say any Spider-Man like stole the show when all three of them are on screen, you just have to ignore the other two. Like, and I can understand anyone like focusing on their favorite Spider-Man. But just because you are... I've seen a lot of that. That doesn't mean they stole the show. A lot of people are saying Andrew Garfield stole it from the other two, but I just don't agree. Unironically, I keep saying people say, oh yeah, my favorite Spider-Man stole the show. And that proves that they are the best. It's like, I think you were paying attention to them because they were your favorite. Probably. Well, here's the thing. Like, I never watched the amazing Spider-Man movies. I never did, but that's why I was so surprised by how much I enjoyed Andrew Garfield on this movie. Like, I was like, goddamn, he did so well considering the movies he came out of. So I was just probably the low expectations probably added to my surprise of how well he works in this movie. So... Well, I already knew he was a really good actor. But I knew all three of them were, so I was just happy to watch them do their thing. Yeah. All three of them are phenomenal in this. Like, like... Andrew, for something unique. It almost... All three of them stole the show and shared it amongst themselves. And started to bring goblins off the top. One for all and all for one. Probably a hot take, but I kind of felt that Toby was a little tired. Kind of like he wasn't fully into it. I think it was perfect. I think his tone with his experience and his delivery, especially how it paired with the other two, was just... I think he was fucking brilliant. I think he really pays off later on. He came across as a very lived and elder Spider-Man that was trying to be more Definitely. Chappading of the other two. Yeah, I liked the elder Spider, the Oracle. Yes. They could have easily done the kind of spry, jokie, Spider-Man for all three of them, but I did appreciate that they kind of accentuated the difference between all three Spider-Man. Yeah. That's actually what was pretty cool about this. They're all unique. Yeah, you get the sort of spry, sort of excitable Andrew Garfield with a kind of a dark streak underneath. And then you got the sort of really, really currently emotionally just massacred Tom Holland, Spider-Man right now. And then you have the sort of... You know, he's been through a lot of stuff, so you can kind of see he's wiser, but also got some hurt underneath. Sort of Toby, but I don't know. Of the three, I was definitely kind of felt that Toby was a little over it, but I don't know. It worked for the role. I think it's just because his performance called for the least sort of... He's just the most subtle out of the three. Energy, I suppose. Yeah, he's the most subtle out of the three. Yeah, he's the most subtle out of the three. He's the most subtle out of the three. He's the most subtle out of the three. His performance is just a... He feels... His doesn't call for the same stuff as the other two. Like, you got Holland's one has a significant point in his life, but still so much of his life left. Garfield is like... Feels to me that he's been through so much, but still has so much to go and so much to prove while Toby's feels like he's complete and he's seeing these other two who are still in their dreams. I think that's accentuated more so than any other moment than in the moment where Toby, I guess if we do skip ahead, where he stops Tom and you just see his face and all of those emotions are in the face is like, you don't want to do it this way. Yeah, you know what the right thing to do here is. We've talked about this. We know what's happening here. He is complete Spider-Man. He's Spider-Man who's finished all his arcs. Yeah, and he's not even... And now he's just helping other Spider-Man make the right decision. And he's not ordering Tom to do anything. He just knows he's going to make the right decision if he pauses him here, stops him from making that final decision. We'll talk about that a whole bunch. We'll get there. But yeah, keeping those things in mind, it informs a lot of everything they all say to each other as well. My Aunt May and girlfriend are still alive loses LeMau. Yeah, the kind of monologue that... Hey, I think it's an assumption that his Aunt May is still alive. When Tom says that you don't know what I'm feeling and then you kind of see that, like you said, that glimpse from Andrew and then when he gets into the... Starts opening up and says that there was something special for him and that he couldn't save her and there's so much unsaid, but it's all just said on his face. I thought that was like, oh, God, like that was just really, really, really powerful, some of the best stuff. And I love... Whatever I've seen of Andrew, I think he's done really good, but that was like, damn, he does so much with so little... Like, it wasn't bad writing, but it was very... He doesn't get into too many details, but I was really happy with that and then how it pays off later. I was really surprised how much that worked. The perfect test for this is like, if he hadn't seen the Amazing Spider-Man movies, would the payoff where he saves MJ still hit it strong? I think it probably would. I think it does. For me, I think it's, I don't know, it hits way stronger having seen that movie, which is funny for me to think about. Yes, yeah, I'll clarify. Never watched the movies. I did see the scene with Gwen Stacy, though, so I know what happens, obviously, but having not had a really strong emotional investment in the movies because not really even watching the full things, having watched reviews and stuff like that. I think I watched a YMS or something like that, but not having really, truly experienced or been a catch to them, the fact that Andrew stood out so strongly was very surprising to me, considering how I expected that to be the worst stuff. I expected a lecture to be cringe. I expected all that stuff to be really bad, but I was like, wow, this actually works way better than I thought it would. I'm not farting. I'm squeezing mayonnaise. No, that's okay. I'm okay with you farting. Is that what they're calling it? I don't know. I think I'd prefer if you were farting. Do you not like mayonnaise, Friggy? I really don't like mayonnaise. What if I was farting mayonnaise? No. I mean, that's nice. That seems like a liquid form. That's not farting. That's shotting. No, that's just... No, there's no fart. What if I was farting mayonnaise gas? I don't know what the heck is this. Is this a World War I battlefield? How hot would that have to be? What is mayonnaise's boiling point? How hot? It'd probably just be fart temperature, I suppose. So I think it'd be really hot. I doubt it would have to be more hot. Mayonnaise gas? Rags. You do understand that fart gas is not the same as water vapor, right? They have different boiling points. Yeah. Are we talking about the boiling points of farts? I'm talking about the boiling points of mayonnaise. I think the question we have to ask is mayonnaise... I think the important question we need to ask here is, is mayonnaise gas literally just mayonnaise that has evaporated into gas? Or is it something else? Is it just mayonnaise-flavored gas? But if it was flavored, I don't... So then it's not mayonnaise. It would be like some other compound. Yeah. Does mayonnaise even stay mayonnaise when you boil it into a gas? I figure it would, probably. Or would it divide into its component parts or something? What is mayonnaise? Like, what's it made out of? 90% vegetable oil. Okay, so what is vegetable oil's boiling point? So I've put the answer in the chat, so that's 570 degrees Fahrenheit. This is the Ray Bradbury story we never got. 570 degrees Fahrenheit. So like, so you would need an arse that is as hot as an oven to have mayonnaise. Oh, so I could do it. I've got one of those. Man, that would like, I feel like that would set all your clothes on fire constantly. Your underpants would be on fire all the time. Oh, I get them made especially for my epically hot dump truck. Right. So it's Spider-Man or something? Well, that's the cover. He's just chained in. He will shift much. But yeah, so one of the first things Tom tells the others is these guys are from your world, right? So you deal with them. If you kill them, that's on you. I'm done. Yeah. Very close to pressing the button. And so they explain their stories, what led them to their darkest moments, and how they came back. Press the mayonnaise button. It's the mayonnaise button. It's like pressing the whopper button. Really, really off. Now aren't we? The, what Andrew says, I tried to go on, because I know that's what she would have wanted. But at some point, I stopped pulling my punches. I got bitter. I don't want you to end up like me. I was like, oh, shit. Yeah, that's really hard. It's weird, because I really, really wanted to be in on the scene with Aunt Megan. I'm not going to bring that up again. But that didn't hit me. But the scene hit me really hard. I was like fully in on Andrew. And I've only seen him on screen for like, what, five, 10 minutes at this point? I was very surprised. Just that writing, that subtle, all the things that were unspoken, I think, really made this performance by Andrew really, really top tier in my book. John, what should make amazing Spider-Man three? Honestly, I'd be down for that. Yeah. This kind of makes you know, I mean, you know, we don't even fucking spice your take as if, as if I were to say, John, what should make Spider-Man four? Four, the rabie one. Yeah. Then it wouldn't be rabies. Everybody right now. Oh, I imagine. Yeah, I just have. No, even more to happen. I would be very excited to see that film. I think, well, I think I would be very excited to see Sam Raimi Spider-Man four. I would be very excited to see John Watts makes Raimi Spider-Man four. But I think I'd be most excited to see them co-do it together. Well, you know, when Multiverse of Madness turns out to be god-awful, I'm assuming nobody's going to blame Sam Raimi. Everyone's going to blame the studio. No, it'll be the studio's fault. Yeah, because apparently they started shooting without, well, well, this film did that, but this is the exception. But apparently they didn't have the third act sorted out when they started shooting that one. I think based on the amount that's crammed into this movie that was almost certainly all crammed in there by studios who wanted this stuff there and how good it turned out. And based on how poorly Spider-Man three turned out, I think we can just fairly confidently say, especially if Multiverse of Madness is terrible, it'll be even more confirmation that Sam Raimi, while it's how it's a director, is probably not very good at working under studio limitations. Whereas John Watts, I think, is excellent at working under studio limitations. Interesting, yeah. That's less controversial. Yeah, I think that's what I thought you were going to say. Well, unless people want to defend Spider-Man three, which currently is our only piece of evidence, what did you think I was going to say for you? I thought you were going to say that John Watts is better than Sam Raimi. I think they have different skill sets. Yeah, because I know which one I prefer, spicy take. Yeah, you prefer Sam Raimi, though, yeah. All right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I just don't want, but I do think that, yeah, I think it's pretty clear that the studio limitations was Spider-Man three, but it had to have Venom in it? It had to have Venom. That was the limitation. Oh, what a fucking easy limitation to deal with. It's something that's been talked about. This film had five villains. That one had three, and it didn't even need to have three. It just needed Venom. He wanted Sandman and Harry Green Goblin, so he put Venom in as well. But even with all three, it could have worked because it worked here. Though maybe you can make the argument that these ones rely on a level of history and establishment that we already have. They also rely on a shared purpose for being there. There's a shared thing between them. Whereas if you want to do, like, if you don't have that, then you've got to set up all the villains individually. So yeah, there are different circumstances, but holy shit, dude, I had to put Venom in my film. It's not bad because of studio interference, right? Well, it sucks that the limitation was imposed, but you could have made it work. I have to. What's the best considering all the wrong with that that has nothing to do with Venom? Oh, yeah, I agree, right. There's loads wrong with that film that Venom has. Exactly, yeah. Nothing to do with, yeah. So that would have been bad Venom or not. So like, how could you say like, not like Spider-Man 3, but like No Way Home? Oh, because it's a better film. Because it's a much better film. Yeah. Make attention with your eyes and ears. It's so awkward to me. I thought I could clear that up. How many times have you seen like MCU shill stuff in there when it's like, dude, haven't we spent like, you know, we think most of it's crap? Like nine months, just shitting on the MCU. Like, really? Like we don't even want to watch the shows because I like, I don't want to watch the shows for the most part because I just fucking hate them. I legit don't think that there was, there's been a good film, like a good film since like Ragnarok, like I'm not even sure the Infinity War counts. These poor, well, Ragnarok has issues, but like the thing is, I think that these people's only defense against like, seeing MCU Spider-Man praised is to just dismiss the people praising as MCU shills. Like, sorry, man. I mean, I find this one odd because they're saying like, how could you like it? It's like, dude, everyone in our sphere pretty much likes it except Shad and Jay Longbowm from what I've gathered so far. Because this is a 99 percent on Rotten Tomatoes. That's nuts. When I found out Gary liked it, I was like, that's the ultimate test. He fucking hates MCU Spider-Man. Like, and if he's liking it, like, you know, you know that there's something going on in this film that's, can I at least say special? Something that resonates at the very least. Yeah, and that's not an argument for how it's good. That's just an argument for like, you must have noticed like, this is getting liked more so than far from home and homecoming got. And I've got, I've heard more praise for this film than the other two MCU. Definitely heard. Absolutely. More. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely heard more for this. And like over the course of this conversation, that it's gone up for me. My friends like it is the single most useless thing I've ever heard. It's the point being, if we're saying that a lot of people like it, then it's not that the point being made is not that people like it. So it's good or anything like that. I don't know what, like I even accounted for that. And they still said that was my point. Maybe they'd already typed that out by the time that they, but it wasn't my point to begin with because I was responding directly to people being like, how could you like this? It's like, I mean, fucking everybody does. I don't know why that's shocking to you. I don't even know that that's really like muscle point at all. How could you? So I'm not, how could you like this? People like the Snyder cut. Yeah. Technically enough, the MCU shill argument, this is basically like the same argument from the opposite side of the coin, where if you don't like Snyder cut, you're an MCU shill. If you do like, if you do like this version of Spider-Man, you're an MCU shill, you just can't win either way. I guess the lesson of the story is if you're right, you're an MCU shill. I don't know. It's console war arguments from like 10 years ago, if you ever said a single thing positive about PlayStation, you're a PlayStation fanboy, you ever said a positive thing about Xbox, then you're an Xbox fanboy and people would do these things like one day and then flip the next because it's not, there's not really any interest in the arguments. It's just the position itself. Get better arguments. Yeah, which I think we'll probably just push on, you know. Yeah. Do it. So we got a, he like, he says that and then we get from Raimi Peter, which I adore the way that he delivers this. The, I was thinking about it more because funny enough, I was in a conversation with someone being very critical about this film and the more I was talking about this scene, the more I was liking it when thinking about what it means with listening to everyone say their things. And when Toby explains his perception of that night with the Uncle Ben's killer in the first film, he specifically says like, I wanted him dead and I got what I wanted. Like he doesn't, he doesn't bother clarifying with them whether or not he killed him because that's not the point. It's that that person died. That's what he wanted and that didn't make things better. Yeah. And it's so like, oh, I so much to think about that he had that in his head for such a long time. Like, then that's what's driving him. Like he doesn't want these people dead, but you got to stop them. And he said it took time to get through that darkness. And yeah, you just get all insane. I want to kill him. I want to tear him apart. I can still hear his voice. And I was just thinking to myself like, man, Green Goblin really has like solidified himself and he's a fucking cameo in someone else's franchise. Like he's one of the best MCU villains. I love Green Elf. Yeah. Love me some Green Elf. Love me some Green Elf pussy. No. Yeah. And he said the may died for nothing and they clarify the great power, great responsibility, which Pete is telling them. He was saying that even when she was dying and then they said maybe she didn't die for nothing. Because that message is super important as well as what it meant that she died in that scenario. Which is the the perk up he needs at least for getting on with this challenge of getting these villains cured. And so they have all of the tools they had from the fabricator, but they're just damaged. He needs to. Holland's going to repair Sandman's one and Electro's one while the serums will be made. The formulas rather like solutions will be made by the other spider men for their respective villains. Andrew Garfield argues that he's made the formula before. And Toby says that he'd been thinking about it for a long time. And I assume we're supposed to gather that he's always regretted that he could never save Norman or his son with getting an anti-serum and so anti formula. And so he actually did look into it, I guess is what they're trying to say. Which makes sense. There's something to work with. When Garfield says that he's got it, when he just says, oh yeah, I got the serum, it's almost like he shocked everyone just says, yeah. Like they believe him. They trust him with that. Do you guys think it's a tad contrived that they have all the tools they need to make this stuff in the high school lab? In the laboratory. Especially with the serum, like, okay, you just need some normal ass stuff that's just in here. That's kind of weird. I was thinking it was something special you need for that. I thought so too. I think it's a little bit extreme. I think they need... What do they make from scratch and what is it that they still have from the last time that they're a pair? Well, so the repair ones, I'm willing to give them for sci-fi. I still don't like it that much, but I'm willing to give it to them. They make the formulas from scratch. So Dr. Connors and Dr. Osborne formulas. I feel like if I'd ever studied any kind of chemistry, I'd be able to have a more a happier or an angry reaction about that as in like, I don't know how much of chemistry is having resources and how much of chemistry is knowing what you can combine to certain results. Surely they don't have the chemicals they need there. At a school laboratory. It feels like they would have to... There's many kinds of better OzCorp made like this stuff and they're a super multi-gajillion dollar umbrella level for a company. Maybe the solution is a shopping list and then Toby and Andrew go get those things while Holland has them in for some MJ or something. Yeah, you could split them up. Toby and Andrew, they can have a back and forth and you can have MJ and Peter get time. They could even break into like a high-end lab, you know, somewhere. Something like that. I just get in a role from a high school. I was like, okay, all right then. I was lucky, I guess. That can be in the four-hour cut that we get to see. Yeah. Something else I want to highlight. This is not a huge deal, but it's something I noticed is that Andrew Garfield, Spider-Man, does reference Connors by name, but we don't really get a reaction from Toby despite Connors being a mentor figure to him in his series of films. So I just found that a bit odd that there wasn't even like a look of like, oh, Connors went bad. That's fair, actually. That's something they might have missed. Yeah, something I was looking out for. He had a good relationship with Dr. Connors in the Remy trilogy. Yeah, that's why I was kind of looking forward to him turning into the lizard eventually in those films if they had gotten more sequels, because I think that would have been a good set up. And how much fun would it have been if it wasn't really fully addressed other than Toby giving him a huge shock and like almost disgust look? Like the fuck? It was caught as it turns into that? Yeah, that would have been great. Why is he British now? Yeah. It's like being lizard. I don't know, maybe it comes with the lizard territory. Does he ever say his full name or does he just say Dr. Connors? Because like, I don't know. I think he does say, I think he says Connors or Dr. Connors, but there might be enough. You know, it's one of those things where because we're dealing with multiple Peter Parker. Yeah, I'm not sure what I would assume if I was in that situation and someone said Dr. Connors, if I would assume it's their version of the same Dr. Connors I know, or if I would assume it's different, I don't know. And someone has highlighted there's a chance it could have happened in Toby's universe and so that's mundane information to him, but I think it deserves an acknowledgement of some kind, right? That's true. Yeah, I think so. Yeah, there's just that moment where so they're all building their things and then Ned is like Peter, they all go yep. Yeah, he goes Peter Parker. They go yeah, all of us. Peter, Peter. I feel like that's the first joke that you've really not done justice. What do you mean? I don't know. The Mahler's Dunjustice or? It's very different in the movie and I think it's a lot funnier in the in the movie the way they actually deliver it. I don't know how to do it. Mahler wasn't as good as the yeah. Mahler wasn't as good as the actual movie. Oh, I got it. It's in more so it's delivered with different lines. Big fan. It's like more context to it. Are you asking people to do all three voices once? It's like, it's more so, you know, kind of Peter. Well, which Peter? You know, Peter, how do I do this? Peter, Peter Parker. No, that's still. You're going to shut up as well. Yeah, you're right. Oh, yeah, they have their the web the web fluid moment which I think everybody assumed would happen. We're just waiting for it. But I love what they do with Andrew's reaction where the scene is kind of moving just forward. And after he shows it's coming out of his arms, you just get this shot of him slowly moving toward it going, how on earth is that even? And it just gets to the next thing like he's fully enthralled by it, but he doesn't get any answers. It's neat. I do. They do a pretty good job of addressing all the major differences between the Spiderman's and kind of natural reactions between them, like the natural web is like, what the hell is that all about? You know, because the other two had to create the devices. So I do like those little interactions. It's kind of fan service, but it is also kind of I wonder about that. I don't know. I don't know why we call it fan service when it's like, why in the world wouldn't they talk about that? That's like almost they have to talk about that, right? Because that's like a big difference between their approaches. Yeah, I guess it's possible they would just never notice that he's doing that the whole time. And they would assume he has web shooters, but will they see it, right? The fact well, like if if they just got into the final fight and they'd never mentioned like web fluid, I guess they could have never realized that he's just shooting it straight out of his arms instead of shooting it from web shooters. Like they could have just never looked at him closely enough to see that. Yeah. I guess I was arguing about they do in like, well, I guess, yeah, they would just be up to you as a writer at that point. Yeah, like they didn't need to do all the kind of interactions between the Spider-Man. But at the same time, it does kind of solidify the world a bit and kind of make more sense because they would be very curious about each other. Of course they would be. They'd want to know, you know, how they succeeded, how they failed, what their, you know, how different their lives turned out. It'd be incredibly fascinating to find out different variants of you in parallel universes and how it turned out, especially if you were all superheroes. So yeah, it'd be really interesting to see how any character reacts in that situation as well, really. Like, you know, what would happen if or if Dr. Strange met two other Dr. Strangers from different universes? Well, yeah, I guess we're going to be seeing that happen in his movie. That's a good point. I've not even realized, I didn't even realize that. Oh, yeah. I was, I was picturing just like, you know, a world where we'd had three Dr. Strange franchises, all of them. It's like, you know, let's imagine that Dr. Strange is the most popular, like Marvel superhero. And he was the one who was getting 2002 movie, 2000, whenever Amazing Spider-Man came out. The, the, probably my favorite joke of the, of the set of that scene is probably the Edward where they go, because they're all ready to go. And I think he's like, well, expect disappointment and you won't be doing it. And she goes, no, we're going to kick some ass. And then Toby's like, Cure, we're going to cure some ass. Cure some ass. I'm going to give a nice gap of the dad just goes, cure that ass. It's so awkward. I really liked Nedimus a lot. He was great. Yeah. It was really good delivery. Cure that ass. I hope this gets lots of roles for, well, all of them, to be honest, but, him in particular, because I've never seen him in anything else, I guess. I don't know. He might be very busy, but I've just never seen him in anything else now. And that was funny. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Yeah, that was funny. Yes. That's why we, that's why we all loved when we said it. Yeah. Yeah. That's why we're all laughing. We could explain the joke, but I feel like that kind of ruins it, but I don't know. Like just, No, I refuse. All right. Yeah. And so then we get to the scene, the wonderful scene that loads of people pick for their favorite, where the three vitamins are just having a chat about their exploits in the past. Yeah. The chemistry is electric. Yeah. They have really good chemistry together. It's insane. Fantastic. I just wanted them to talk for like 10 more minutes. And it's like, No, go away, bad guys. Someone to talk. Four hour cut. Who do you ever fought? Oh, I fought like a, like a, like a black alien goo thing. It's like, Yeah, I fought an alien in space and on earth. He's purple. Man, I want to fight an alien. The fact that I'm just stuck on the fact that you fought him on earth and in space. Oh, man. I fought like a Russian mechanical rhino suit. Yeah. And it's someone in chat said, Rags liked Ned. Lol, everyone on Friday night tight said Ned was the worst part. EFAP has gone insane carrying this movie. Okay. Disagreements are allowed. Yeah. Even all the people on Friday night tights would be like it's fine. The EFAP like Ned. Why? I don't know why it would be insane to like Ned. Did they say he was a bad character? Did they just say that they don't like him? If they just didn't find his stuff funny, that's fine. You know, When he gets the cloak, he looks super great. Well, that's someone else. Thanks, Mr. Cloak, sir. What it is to mention is while him finding out the best friend of Peter goes nuts in certain universes because of super villain. He's like, Oh, yeah. I'm not gonna become a super villain. And he has this like super awkward smile. He's proud of himself for not being a villain. We know who he is. Yeah. Wait, what do you mean? Ned also goes crazy. Like he's the hot goblin. Yeah. Yeah. So Ned does go crazy. Oh, well, I'm guessing in this version he's not gonna, but yeah. No, I again, I hope that we'd never see them again. Not because I don't like them, but just someone's just like They probably don't like it because he's not white. All right, can we, everyone are both chill out. They probably didn't find him funny. They probably find it to be annoying. Just relax. That's totally fine. We like Ned. That's, well, I like Ned. I can empathize with any person who doesn't like Ned. I can see how it would be very easy to be annoyed by him. Right? I mean, I don't know. Like he seems really inoffensive to me. He's just a bit of a goopster. I think I think I guess I can see it with pretty much any comic relief character that as soon as you don't like their jokes, they just become a fucking irritation that you wish would never want to. It's the challenge of comedy, right? Like something that's bad that's trying to be really intelligent and smart. That's like hilarious, but bad comedy just sucks. Yeah. Yeah, I was just amused by him. I care about him. And if we don't see him again, then so be it. He was a fun addition to the trilogy. Yeah. Yeah, I liked him. I believe that they're best friends. Yeah, I do. I really do believe that they're best friends. Oh, dude, they lost moments together quite sad as well. Oh, yeah. Yeah, they're asking him to explain his his web that he's like, it's like breathing. I just I just I don't do breathing. I just do it. It's funny when I squirt, when he like wicks his way through that explanation, which again, the dialogue feels so genuine. It just cuts to Andrew just goes, wow. Wow. They both girls like I'm not like like teasing or anything. I was weird. Like, I don't know how it works. We obviously want to know how it works. Tom says that that Andrew is like, I just you know, it just doesn't work. I think it's awesome. Like, yeah, just try to reassure them. That dynamic is it's just not typically I don't even know what we've seen it before in like the MCU, which is all about teaming up all these different people. People who are the same person from different universes talking to each other. Not just that, but the respect they have for each other. And the yeah. Yeah, they don't want to hurt each other's feelings, but they're aware that it's an interesting. You're right, because they do immediately get along, whereas other times they typically fight when people meet each other for the first time. Yeah. Tony's ego will clash for pretty much every character you ever meet met in the MCU. Steve is usually like Steve Rogers is oftentimes like, you know, all business, like, you know, making sure we get everything right. You know, really having just fun times and and and whenever other people met each other, like if Captain Marvel meets Spider-Man, it's just like nothing there. Who cares? But these. Yeah. What do they have that's interesting to say? Can you tell me something for me? Well, I almost just want a full film with all three of them just bouncing off each other for two hours. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you're gonna be the last one. Four hour cut. Four hour cut. And again, just I'm playing up as much as I can. The delivery is so good. These lines, the way that, like, they all get them out and, for example, when he's like trying to argue why he's interested in these, um, because I run out of webs all the time and it's a hassle. Hazzle. That he delivers that. I, you know, I have that too. Oh, why existential crisis? Don't get me stuck. Oh, yeah, totally get it. We've skipped over, um, over Tom asking, the webs come out out of anywhere else. Yeah, come out of your wrist or come out of other places. And just the fact that Toby's there just like, hey, you're amazing, all right? You're amazing. So I think I needed that. I didn't hear that. Andrew's face is so valuable in that moment. Yes. And then you just know everyone in the cinema is picturing Spider-Man swinging through the city from his dick. Well, now I am. Now I am. Yeah. My favorite part of that is that I know for a fact I'm I'm one. I know that I've drawn that exact image for a chapter. Wow, it's going to get drawn now. Whatever we do. It was already. I can't remember that. You're not trapped up. TKO before trapped up. I got that. See, that sounds like something I wouldn't forget, but I can't quite remember. And I can't. Yeah, because I don't I don't forget the the flying the poop thing that shut up into space. Jay, are you sure you drew Spider-Man swinging through the city? Spider-Man swinging through the city. It doesn't sound like a J thing at all. Oh, all right. All right. I'll just make it clear you weren't maybe confusing that with with something else potential. Well, I'm less sure that it was with you. I'm pretty sure that it was, but maybe it happened. Yeah, I'm glad that you have another group of friends or that sort of thing is acceptable. Oh, if I if it's not acceptable, we are not friends. Yeah, yeah, that's true. All my friends. Yeah, we we understood, you know, we're on that level. I really enjoyed the the interactions between the Spider-Man, but I did kind of feel a little bit of a groan coming on when the whole you're amazing. You're amazing because he's the amazing Spider-Man. I was like, that's a little on the nose, but I'll I mean, it just it means a lot more than just that as a reference. This is literally giving Andrew Garfield deserves, which is recognition as a as a greater element of Spider-Man, the amazing Spider-Man movies that were terrible. Yeah, stop the negative self-talk. You know, you got to, you know, it's not your again, it is it is good will hunting. It's it's not your fault. That's what that whole scene is. It's not your fault. I really love that a huge aspect of their characters is just reassuring each other emotionally. I'm not sure there's another there's another scene that I have that thoughtful, but it's not spring to mind which scene it is. What's another because they do just reassure each other emotionally or not. I really like that. Is it just as a character dynamic between them? Because it was in the lab. I think in the lab would they talk about how cool the stuff they're working on was? Um, no, that was on the that was on the scaffolding when he tells him that. No, no, no. I know that. But Joe was saying there was another instance of that. I don't know. I don't know. Maybe I don't know. Maybe I am thinking of that scene, but I don't know. Well, oh yeah, we skipped over the back. One of the best jokes in the movie. You're okay. Oh, it's my back. From all the all the swinging hobbies back. Yeah. They crack his back and it's like, man, yeah, be really handy to have another Spider-Man to do that because nobody else is strong enough to do that for you. By the way, the the amount of look, the fangirls are going to be very happy with the two fully grown Spider-Man just getting very close, just humping, humping, doing a hump and girls. Oh, yeah, but pardon my prejudice. I am everyone. And people. Yeah. Everyone, regardless of their fanery or girliness, are going to One fact, Andrew Garfield was the first man I was attracted to as Spider-Man. That was Andrew Garfield as Spider-Man was like, oh, I like men. Cool. That's neat. Maybe you just like superheroes. Maybe. Yeah, do you like I think he's the only I don't know. I think he's one of the only superheroes where I've thought, wow, that guy's real hot. Fair enough. Any others on that list? Will and Defoe. Wait, I'm not sure. No, no, no. None of spring is aligned. The first or the only? No, the first. Oh, what? You. So when you watched like Wolverine, you weren't like, hey, this is like, I believe you, Jay. Just keep mail. Well, I don't know. Because he's not really my type, first of all, but secondly, well, I was like 13 when that movie came out. So I was getting into my whole, oh, I feel attraction now. That's neat. And when did that movie come out? That 2012. Oh, yeah, yeah. I would have been an analyst. God, I love my shitty, like I have encyclopedic memory of like when films and games came out. But if you asked me for things, I got jackshits. I've recently turned 13 when that movie came out. I feel like I feel like it's a good, good age for your first, first attraction to a man. A Spider-Man romance. Yeah, your first Spider-Man romance. So anyway. Anyway, yeah. Mayonnaise farts. They've got the. The cures are scattered around the Statue of Liberty's scaffolding area where they're currently attaching a Captain America shield to through the statue. How do you feel about the fact that you're doing that by the way? I mean, I just don't buy that at all. Like I don't, I don't like it. They're modifying the Statue of Liberty to commemorate Captain. Like I feel like if Captain is getting a monument, it'll be his own monument. It's own. The Statue of Liberty is not about you wouldn't happen anyway. That's it's a completely different thing. Yeah, you wouldn't want that great monument to be fucked with, especially for his sake. Yeah. You don't know. You'd give him another one. You'd build a statue in like somewhere else. A statue of Cap somewhere, but yeah, I don't like that at all. Yeah. Doesn't, he wouldn't even want a statue, but he'd feel like, well, just don't ruin another. Damn Wilson's shield. That's right. What he stole from Walker when he broke his arm and took it from him. But no other reason than just wanting it. Yeah. God, I hate this show. Do better. You know, what do you feel about using the Statue of Liberty as like a target to have the fight happen to find a secluded area, but helpful. I think that's a big aspect. Nobody's there. Scaffolding means that you can duck and weave through things which Spiderman are really good at. It's surrounded by a lot of water, I guess. Yeah. It's secluded, I get it. Yeah. The safest place that is nearby. Well, another big element, of course, is that it has to be instantly recognizable when he calls in to Joe Jane or Jameson. Oh, true. Well, he could just save his address if he really wanted to. You know, like just hey, yeah, we're in this building on this street. Doesn't need to be the Statue of Liberty. Yeah, surely does he not? Is there an element if he doesn't want it to be obvious that that is his motivation or am I misremembering? Um, oh. Well, didn't he say that he wanted them to come and come? Then I'm misremembering. I can't remember either. He wanted an obvious place to meet and on easily recognizable on film. So I get it. I just it does seem like a pretty Oh, it's for it. It's because it's fucking Statue of Liberty. That's that's the reason why it's there because it's a movie. Yeah. So what do you guys think of the criticism that they shouldn't have chosen the statue because it's made of copper and Electra would like fuck him up because of it? Oh, he did. Oh, I didn't know that. I guess that's a fair point. Yeah. I guess, well, Electra is a problem regardless. He's a tough boy to beat. So is Sandman, to be fair. Yeah. Lizard ain't so much. Yeah, Lizard is just we need to get the gas on him. But, you know, it's complicated because like Electra could theoretically zap them all regardless of a giant copper thing. Yeah. Electra also teleports in that fight which really, really sent off some red flags in my brain. Did you see that? Well, yeah. That's Electra's ports. Yeah. Teleporting is one of his established powers in this. Yeah. That becomes a big problem because... Does it? Well, so fortunately it's teleporting and seemingly not just flat out intangibility like in Intasem. That was much more of a problem. Yeah, well, to be fair, what are you thinking about in terms of problems? How does he get caught in the arc reactor or whatever it is called? Taken from him if he can just zap him away. Well, Dark Ock gets him on surprise. I think it's... That was, yes. That's right. Hence him pretending to be a villain and then just snatching it out of him. Yeah, but he could have just gone like, oops, zip away, right? He could have just teleported away. I'm assuming him grabbing it makes it so that the power level isn't currently accessible as it were because he seems to be discomforted the second that it grabs it. Yeah. Well, the arc reactor seems to be a big fixture of this particular thing. I got the idea that arc reactor kind of supercharged him, but the power just wouldn't immediately go away. Yeah, so removing it stag isn't for long enough that he can put the neutralizer thing on him, which I think is fair. I understand what you're saying. Electro is so powerful. Yeah. Undeniably. And yeah, that is the point in the film we're at now. So they're doing the big fight and it doesn't go quite well. They end up screwing each other over with their web hitting each other. Yeah, they're not working together and... Coordinating. At one point, Garfield like shoots web into Toby's face. He's like, yeah. Gross. Please, can we just never stop calling him Garfield? Can someone draw Spider Garfield, please, like the cat? I mean, let's hang on. Let's see if that already exists. I call him Andrew and Garfield. I call Tom, Tom and Holland. I never call Toby's Maguire, like Maguire Spider-Man. No, it's just Toby. It's always Toby. Or Rainy Spider-Man. Are we spoiling the next step? Which is funny because it's called Bully Maguire, not Bully Toby. Bully Maguire sounds better, I think. It does sound better. Oh, there you go. Yeah. Spider Garfield. Just to be clear, that's by far the least cursed image that comes up when you search Spider Garfield. Does one of them have him shooting like lasagna beams instead of webbing? Oh my God. Oh my God. I don't like that. It's actual. Internet. Why? This apparently is still from a full animation. What? No. No, this one. This one here. Oh, thank God. Oh, that's not much better. I mean, that's not better. This is strange. That's odd. John looks different. A little bit now. It looks like deranged. A little bit, yeah. Oh, this one's Lovecraftian. There's a whole community about making creepy images of Garfield. I don't know where it started, but it's pretty. I'm sorry, John, it's like the main way that they... Internet. We have to have a talk, all of it. So, yeah, they'd be straggling, and they say they don't know how to work as a team. Now that do I. And finally, get something for Mr. Holland to offer these other two Spider-men who are more seasoned than he is that he's worked with teams. And the first thing they come up with is focusing on one person at a time, as well as just coordinating better, I guess. And just before they go off, Andrew is like, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. I love you guys. Like, they both react at the same time. Thank you. Thank you, thank you. And then we get the cool shot of them jumping off the scaffolding and everybody liked that. I figured it out, I figured it out. Um, just when I was saying there was another scene of emotional reassurance, just I figured it out which one it was. Okay. It's when Tobi has been stabbed and they're all going and he asks, am I dying or is that really happening? And that's just this very real. No, don't worry, that's really happening. You're good. So sorry to do real. Sorry. I was just saying the cool shot where they run off the scaffolding and swing around and it's cool. Well, and it's very fun. In the middle of it, one of the Spider-men shoots the other two and pulls them so that they as a failure, like dynamically swinging around, it's fucking awesome. It's awesome. It's the movie's money shot, really. It is the movie's money shot. It's like, hey guys, isn't this cool? Holy shit. You like, it's just, this is real. Holy shit. Yeah. This is happening. This is like the fantasy movie that like that people would call a fever dream for like, you know, a pipe dream. Sorry, not a fever dream. Yeah. Obviously that's never going to happen. That's like a fucking fan dream. Here it is. You're watching it. And I'm sure they debated putting that in the last trailer, that shot. They were probably like, should we? I'm glad they didn't. But I really honestly, so much restraint that they didn't. And I don't even understand why, what their motivation is, because surely it would have made more money if they put it in the trailer. I think that once the word gets out that they're, I think the speculation is going to help them, even though most people kind of like know at this point that they're in it. But I also think that you got that like surprise word of mouth afterward. They're probably going to release a trailer that has like a post that has all three on them. That wouldn't surprise me. Yeah. Just be like, yeah, it's basically out now. Everybody knows. Well, it is. Yeah. I'm half convinced that the leaks might have almost been part of a guerrilla marketing strategy at this point, considering how well they tie into the actual marketing. Yeah. Because Tom Holland said that originally the plan for marketing was to hide Doc Ock and Elector and all that too, that it was meant to just be marketed as like a battle between him and Dr. Strange over something. But once it got out, they decided to go with the villains. But I mean, obviously whatever strategy they did, it was effective. This film, from what I understand, is like it doesn't even matter about pandemic stuff. It's like the third or fourth highest opening gross ever, I think. I think this is one of them films as well with people like, if I'm not seeing any, then there's only one. I'll make this the one. Yeah. Yeah. This film is probably gonna, like I wouldn't be surprised if it made over a billion dollars. Yeah. Yeah. I we're expecting, I'm curious what the results will be post weekend to be interested to see. Yeah. How many people come back to watch it again? I feel like this movie is going to have a high. Oh, yeah. I wanted to watch. I doubt there'll be a drop. It's too big. Plus, I mean, it is now confirmed that the other two Spider-Man are in it. So, of course, we are going to get like that. I mean, that the marketing, like I feel like we overestimate the number of people who actually were aware of the leaks. And I think a lot of probably the casual audience is going into this, which is probably not expecting other Spider-Man. It would be cool to poll all the audiences to know if they had any clue that those Spider-Man were going to be in it. Yeah. I guess the problem is that by polling them beforehand, you know, I guess the thing is, after we're the people going to trick themselves into thinking otherwise, you know, like, oh, well, I kind of had a feeling. It's like, did you know? Well, I'd just be explicit. Did you know that was happening before or after? Because like, I guess you can't say we knew, but I mean, we knew. But we were pretty sure. It was like an open secret, almost, I feel like, especially with the weird leaks with the Lizard. Well, the Lizard was the thing that sealed the deal for sure. Wait, how come you think? The Lizard got punched by nothing in all rounds. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The Lizard's neck twist is like, I saw that. I was like, ah, it's the thing. I thought it would have been so funny if the thing that they were hiding with that was Matt Murdoch. Matt Murdoch kicking Lizard in the face. Yeah, because I mean, that was always possible. That was always possible. Well, I mean, that would probably break dead of his leg. I don't know that he could do it was Nicholas Cage, Ghost Rider. Who'd you love to know? Ghost Rider. They're probably going to get him back as well. That's just, they definitely should do that. If you're going to just go nuts, I guess. Yeah. Yeah, they fight. They fight, fight, fight, fight, fight. Fight's pretty good. Fight, fight, fight, fight, fight. The Achean scratchy show. Raimi's food almost drowns in sand, but they get the the cure to them and they get the Raimi theme playing while he's like, it's going to be okay, Flint. You're going to, you're going to get home. Don't worry about it. I think then, then they cure Electro with Dark Oak's help. As he comes back. And then Lizard. Yeah. And then Lizard, they cure Wild Doctor Strange is very mysteriously returning in what looks to be where he wasn't. I have no idea how to explain what's happening. Ned opens a portal. Doctor Strange just falls through it. It's like, oh. Yeah. Okay. I don't, I don't know what's going on, honestly. Was he not trapped? Because he says like I was in, I was there for 12 hours, you know, like, so did you get out of it and then come here? Or did you, did Ned get you out of it? I don't understand. I don't know. Yeah, that was a bit weird, especially it was the background doesn't fit for where it was trapped before. It was like all dark. Yeah, I don't, I don't know what's going on there. I mean, I guess it was later. So it could have been dark in the mirror dimension if that's a thing. Yeah, maybe. The mirror dimension would be based on the real life surroundings. So you should still be in the city. Or not. Were they were they in the Grand Canyon at the end of the fight? I guess they were. Yeah. Because because the, yeah, the fight goes to the city and then they are somehow in the Grand Canyon at the end. I guess it's the mine, the reality bending warping of the mirror universe. So at that time, it was at night time in New York City. So it would have been at night time in the Grand Canyon too. So or approaching night time. So I guess I was mostly referring to just dimensional flumps and the webbing and the rocks. Like we don't see any of that. We just see pretty dark. Yeah, they don't explain anything. You could, you could potentially assume that he got out of the webbing eventually because they, he said somewhere, what what Spider-Man was that? Oh yeah. In the homecoming, he says that the spider silk will dissolve in two hours. Yeah. Yeah. So you could assume that he gets out of the spider web, but he doesn't have a sling ring. So he's just kind of hanging out. He's stuck in the mirrorverse until yeah. That portal opens. Yeah. Okay. That makes more sense. Yeah. Yeah. So based on what we know so far about the webbing and the mirror universe, if he doesn't have no sling ring, the webbing will go away, but he has no way of getting out. So I guess it makes enough sense. Um, yeah. And when Electro is he activated, he's like, I'm back to being a nobody. Like you would never know. I feel like since he has no idea what's going on, he should be more worried and panicked when he, as soon as he steps out of the mirror dimension, like he thinks he needs to save the universe like right away. Yeah. Oh, well he does grab the box and it looks like he's ready to use it. And then he's told that Peter's plan is working, which is good news to hear when you have a panic and you're in your right. Like if someone says the plan is working, you'd be like, huh, what plan? And then he sees that, yeah, sees him curing Lizard. Yep. Lizard man. Man of Lizard. Now you have, uh, Electro Explaity with all the, all of what he do about spider baddies that I thought you were going to be black. Other, Andrew Garfield just says, oh man, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry I'm not black. And then he says, got to be a black Spider-Man somewhere. Oh boy. My old coming soon to a movie near you, maybe. Mila's. Mila Jovovich. I was about to say that. In Spider-Man. Or she could be Spider-Woman, I guess. Mila Jovovich. And then we get a moment that is so casual and yet so meaningful when he's like, uh, Otto, that he's like, Peter, so good to see you, dear boy. And it's like, ah, all grown up. The feels. You're all grown up. How are you? I'm just trying to do better. Yeah. Ah, it's nice. Yeah. That's really good. It is. It's almost like a, it's kind of like a, almost like, it's definitely a crowd pleaser, but like, it's really cool to see these characters. It's almost like an alternate universe where these characters get to see each other after the, after every event. They actually get to live and kind of see each other grow up. It's like, yeah, it's meant to get people to cheer in the theaters, but it also is like a really cool idea to do that because we get to see Doc Ock live and see Peter grown up. Like, you don't really get to see that very, very often in movies, you know, because they were friends before. It's just like, ah, it's, it's like, it makes you warm and fuzzy, you know. Yeah, as we said, the core con, conceit of all of this with the multiverse stuff, it's like, we can, you know, we've already decided Doc Strange was fucked by it, but like, okay, this is the scenario now, and then everything runs. And so those moments mean a lot more than if they were simply played out of context. Like, oh, that's strange, but with, with them here, they slot in because you're like, oh yeah, Otto's turned up and Tobin McWire is here. Oh, shit. And now they can say hello to each other. Ah, my heart, run. Run. Um, run, run, run. Yeah. Then we get a pretty cool moment where, well, I hope I'm not skipping over anything, but I was just going to say, like, we hear the goblins coming. And he throws a whole bunch of, like, the always skipping over the Andrew payoff. No, we, no, we're not. No, that's later. That's afterward. Yeah. So yeah, throws a bunch of goblin, batarangs. Oh, no, you're right. Sorry, yeah. And it's just really, a couple of ranks. It's really cool that Doc Ock is the one that protects everybody from them. Um, but Goblin grabs the box and then Doc Ock grabs his glider while Strange pulls the box back off him. And then Goblin, I think, fucks off for a minute. After he cuts off, Ock's tentacle, and they get this moment of slow zooming into each of the Spider-Man because they've all realized that Goblin dropped a bomb inside the box. That's pretty, like, oh shit, and that blows up. Causes a whole bunch of horribleness to happen structurally. And, uh, MJ falls off the scaffolding the moment that everybody saw in the trailer and also assumed something about this scene. And despite the fact that everyone seemed to assume the same thing about it, it didn't make it any less meaningful. That was great. Such a nice. Really like that. I like their expressions. Yeah. So, yeah, I won't cut you off if you go first. Well, do you want me to finish saying what happens first? Yeah, sure. Yeah. Yeah, like, so Tom Allen tries to grab her, but Goblin tackles him out onto the glider. And so maybe for a moment the audience might think she's going to die. But then it shows Garfield has noticed. And so he jumps straight after her, grabs her and starts tearing up while trying to ask her if she's okay, which it's just it's literally just what happened in right acting in Tasm 2, but this time he saved the girl. Yeah. And she asked him to get to do the same thing for a different version of himself as. Yeah, it's pretty fantastic. Real good. Yeah, I'd say it's a tough one I think while everyone was going to say it's a tough one to talk about because it's just excellent, like top notch, one of the best payoffs in the MCU, probably for the way that this works and everything to think about. And it's Spider-Man. Like, well, so when if someone says, like, oh, one of the best payoffs is not even an MCU character, I'd be like, yeah, but it's an MCU content. So that's not what I meant. Well, you made me think of that. I just meant to say, like, I just meant to say, like, it's strange that the best one of the best payoffs in the MCU is for the amazing Spider-Man. It's in the MCU. He has, like, half an hour. And that's the thing, I just, for me, that just shows the talent at work at best here from John Watts. It's like, nice fucking work, man. Oh, I think, I mean, well, between the writers, the John Watts, and the acting of it, how little screen time, yeah, how little screen time Andrew, Andrew, is it Andrew Garfield? Yeah. Has, like, they do some fucking magic in this movie. Like, they did a really, really good job. And based on what movies that they work off of, like, Tasm, Tasm 2 is considered, like, the worst, even way worse than Spider-Man 3 in terms of just how clunky it is and how silly it is at times. Dude, I'll go as far as saying that this payoff was so good. People are rating Tasm 1 and 2 higher now, like, without even having rewatched them. They're just rating it higher because of this payoff. Yeah. I would say it improved. Yeah, it was going to happen. I would say it improves both films a lot because it has such a great payoff. It's really amazing work that they did. I think that while everyone probably, like, saw this in the trailer and did call this being what would happen here, that, you know, there was no guarantee it was going to be so well built up to and so will paid off and so well executed, which is why I think it's still so meaningful is that like, yeah, we knew that something like this was probably going to happen. We knew that Andrew was probably going to be the one to save her, but holy shit, it actually hits hard when they do it because it could have just been like, soullessly Andrew saves the girl this time. Like, like, it could have just been yeah, he did it. Cool. Anyway. And yeah, I would argue that they did it really well with the first thing he wants to talk about is the loss he had from her and how he failed to save her. Then you watch him watching our Peter and MJ together. And if you remember, Toby is like, oh, you got someone. And he's just like, nah, because is that that's that's what's on his mind. And then he says, maybe we're just we're never going to get they're going to work out for people like us is just on his mind. And when she's fallen and Tom's knocked away, like he like fucking goes straight after it shouting no, because of course he doesn't want that to happen to Tom not to mention saving a person's life anyway. Yeah. And are you okay? Yep. Are you? And then you just see the tears in his eyes of just like, I finally made up for my failure all those years ago by sparing someone else this pain. It's just beautiful stuff. Thoughts. Nevertheless, he's obviously still sad thinking about Gwen. Yeah, he's still thinking about how he lost it. It's it's really good. It's a life life defining defining moment that he would never, ever wish on anyone else and he was able to redeem some spark of himself by saving another version of himself from that that horrible fate. So it's like a lot of layers there for just a little bit of work like a I think a lot of work, It's so hard. It's so simple to understand but it works in so many ways. And as Soda Chat said, Jesus, the fanboys and just got dialed up to the max like we are big fans of Good Ryan. We do get very hard. Yeah. Good Ryan. So the whole thing. I don't, I didn't even care about the other Spider-Man. So I watched it probably once when they came out. That's all I got for them. But I watched this as like, man, this is really meaningful and good because it's been built up all the way. Since Garfield was there, like watching MJ and Alpina Parker just being together is like, oh man, that reminds me of all the things. And then, yeah, all that happened. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Yeah, this works really well. No, I'm sorry. I'm dead. Well, in the chat I'm reading, they should have just invited just right to this stream today. All they praise today is payoffs and someone else that says they are just right. Like, holy shit. Wait, so Just Right's problem is only praising payoffs? Cope. I don't even know what that means. Just Right's problem is that he made really shitty arguments. Yeah. What? All the stuff that we're trying to say is any good. We're trying to argue it's all using stuff has been established and then working with dynamics that are very consistent and impressively so at times. Guys, we have seen them fail this so many times in so many properties now. Legacy. It's way more common to take a character you like and destroy them. We get that like 95% of the time. They managed to juggle all of fucking Greek Goblin Doc Ock, Toby and Garfield. Like any one of them just in this movie would have been a worry. Get all of them. How is this any different from The Four of the Likens? I cried when Luke turned around. So the big difference is there's actual character work going on here. This is character work. It isn't just a character existing. It isn't just a character doing something. Yeah, this isn't jangling keys. Like it is a character it is a character reacting and acting in accordance with like their beliefs and then tying it to previous things that happen to them. I don't know. That's like fundamental. Like how I don't understand how you don't see that that's like character writing. What more do you want? Like yeah, I guess that would be the that would be a question in this case. Like how if that is not a payoff that you think is valuable and meaningful what would you have preferred? Instead of just against you just against like returning characters at this point is like it is exactly jangling keys. How is it jangling keys to put somebody in a different context and see how they react? I guess at that point everything is jangling keys. Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, you guys are confusing. Having something return with jangling keys. Like jangling keys is when it is hollow and meaningless and there's nothing to it. But it's like, hey, look a thing you recognize. Get excited. Yeah, it's the way we got here. It absolutely is the way we got here as well as the payoff but when we talk about issues that's like there are issues with plot for sure but what are the issues with character that you can identify here? Yeah, the three kinds of reacting as they should and there's a through line there. Yeah, maybe the plot like it's flupy how the plot gets them there but I don't I don't see how much it is to remind everybody Flumpy how the plot sets up this premise but as soon as the premise starts it's very solid to remind everybody the payoff in the suicide squad between peacemaker and blood sport shooting each other there's nothing not great about that moment how they got there is dumb as fuck but that's not on them as characters but how the characters got there in terms of the characters and what the decisions they made that got them there they were fine we know what they believe we know it's been established and we see them conflict if like the universe just teleports them to each other to have the conflicts like that doesn't ruin them as characters at all no which is essentially what happened in that and for this like what can you name of our Andrew Garfield's through line from Tasm 2 to here that damages the payoff at all because we just named a whole bunch that bolsters it so now I'd be curious a payoff means they planned it you think they planned this 20 years ago that is irrelevant my friend it doesn't matter fucking doesn't you planned it it doesn't matter the payoff does not mean they planned it if the payoff the payoff requires setups that come before if you set something up and you don't know where it's going but then you figure it out later on and then or even if you have a setup that isn't leading anywhere like it was set up it was payoff and then you paid off again later it doesn't need to be planned right from the beginning to the end stories can be written as they go along and have payoffs that are really cool set up a payoff a payoff that's it a payoff can be used as set up for something for another a payoff something else happening in the future because your story doesn't end just because the end credits roll you keep going I'll give you a great example they set up the they set up the whole slinging thing with what's his name a stranger strange talking to Ned he said like I know everybody can be a wizard or whatever he said and then Ned accidentally figures out how to use the slinging and summons the Andrew you know spider-man's that was a payoff to a previous conversation which led to a setup to Andrew's arc and like I can imagine like a bizarre universe where this movie exists and all that happens is that it's Tom Holland Tom Holland Tom Holland and all of a sudden a portal comes through and like another spider-man comes in kicks everybody's asses saves the girl saves the world and then he just takes off his mask and he's like hey I'm Andrew Garfield see ya and then jumps away that's basically what happened to Mandalore for the most part right with Luke yeah yeah well with everybody with Mandalore and that that was everybody yeah and and that would have been easy way to get the people to clap to cheer whatever but it would have been completely hollow you just bring in that character hey you know I'm here I save the day cool bye I was talking with them hasn't Gary about that particular one you were just mentioning and like we're pretty much at the point we're like I don't even know the Boba's in character I don't even know I can't tell like it's kind of weird like I don't know much about his character yeah it's I feel like that's when you start to notice the problem when characters are behaving in ways that don't make sense the way that they got here just feels really like there wasn't any thought put into it at all it's you know like Luke yeah Luke at the end of Mando why is he here why is he doing this and everyone praising him killing robots since like yeah it's nothing like he's just chopping things up it is purely spectacle whereas here you'd be like this isn't purely spectacle this is meaningful to the person the people involved the two Spiderman explain their experiences with going to the darker sides and where it can lead them and how to avoid them after Holland just lost May it's like that is so meaningful that's really good you could have done a lot worse than that I think they have a lot of worse things you could have done your sense for key jangling is broken to like they yes hey there's a thing that people recognize therefore it is key jangling no no not at all I think that Andrew's like probably a fantastic example of how like the initial scene where he comes on and takes off his mask he's like hey I'm Spiderman and like that's the key jangling moment but then we over the next hour and a half develop him so well that he basically that partially repairs the two previous movies who's in that were yeah honest pretty bad and and he gives them gives them like one of the best arcs the most impactful arc for me was Andrew Garfield like and he got so little so little screen time but they earned that because they introduced them they got all the instructions with them you know oh yeah I am Spiderman here I can stand on the ceiling improve it but then he got into his you know character and says don't be like me don't don't go down that dark path where I didn't I stopped pulling my punches and he establishes that that loss and I don't know I've seen bits and pieces of the previous movies but I'm sure it probably would probably stand on its own without having seen Tasm one or two probably I think it worked I think so notice how our praise here isn't just oh my god Andrew Garfield is there and so is Tobi Maguire oh my god and then not we yes and Alfred Malino is there as well oh my I feel like like your big example of that is at the end of the film when Tobi stops him from killing Green Goblin and they just have that look it's like all right so we got all of the character work that we've done for Peter throughout not just this film but the whole trilogy as well as all of the character work that was done for Peter and the Raimi trilogy in this moment coming together to hammer home like a fundamental point for this character's journey it's yeah it is way more meaningful and thoughtful then just hey look it's Tobi Spider-Man and he's here and he's in this costume isn't that cool oh and remember we showed a big praise for Luke was that he wasn't he just wasn't assassinated right he turned up and he wasn't assassinated yeah like they didn't do anything with him he was as he yeah he was just as he is there was there was nothing there no he didn't say anything and that was a point of praise because he didn't say anything stupid yeah yeah it's like if if he were just impressed because Andrew Garfield was there why would we wait why would we have waited until this moment to gush surely we would have Peter should have stopped himself and Tobi Peter should have trusted him to do that oh boy we'll get to that wait are we up to that part yet or not no no no they are oh yeah yeah all right well and here's the thing right I don't even classify at least for myself Andrew Garfield appearance as key jangling because I'm not a fan of his Spider-Man as presented in his films it is only this film that won over to his side like I always liked the actor as a choice I just never thought he was directed correctly in those films but now we get something that's both well written and well directed and it shows what it could have been agreed yeah absolutely if not addressing any major problems it's kind of tough to listen to we've addressed it all we thought it was a major problem where have you been you no it's like it's the same person who put up all their arguments earlier wait we addressed yours I've addressed yours I've addressed yours I've addressed yours I've addressed every problem yeah we've like we've even we've addressed we've addressed shit tons of problems that were actually in the film more specific ones that you brought up yeah yeah I just don't want to watch it too yeah it's it's a there's a couple things going here one there's 2,000 people watching criticizing a chat comment does not mean that we hate all 2,000 people that are watching that's even like a great clear it doesn't even you know it like it doesn't even mean we hate the person who said the thing no no no we don't even hit the person that said the thing but specifically we're addressing that one criticism and I'm in slow mode slow chat right now and there are about one comment per second constantly there's no physical way we could address every single comment in real time let alone do that also go through the whole film podcast not even just the chat you couldn't do the chat alone but let alone that plus actually talking about the film so there's going to be piecemeal criticisms here and there that we're going to pluck out of just like this this is not the first time we've had this fucking shit happen to like there's so many chat had some whole of fame moments in the past the boys or what was it yeah Resident Evil 8 that was cringe oh that was that was he had a fun time without one rags didn't he yes we did they had some bad ones don't worry guys I found the best critique from chat though all right do it let's see all right Garfield Spooderman is such a dick to John like having a rough life just eat lasagna and shut up and consider it from that perspective yeah from my point of view the lasagna is evil Garfield's born after 1993 all they know is eat lasagna charge hate hate fun days and lie so yeah Doctor Strange is back seeing the cures happening and the explosion happened and just just he's trying to contain the spell now because the box is broken they're coming through but yeah and we catch up with the the goblin glider with the Holland on it he breaks the front of it to get to a pumpkin bomb and detonates it on the glider so they both fall to the fucking brutal by the way yeah so they fall to the shield from yeah just probably that's probably a video essay gold mine right there I'm sure there's something dramatic about that yeah let's blow them a shield we'll probably like blow them a shield now proper like rage mode tom for just these few moments where he like he literally like he detonates a bomb and the thing that he is riding on yeah he is pretty fucking pissed at goblin right now going fucking hard well I mean so yeah the lines we get are for Peter too weak to said be home to die that he just says I just want to kill you myself see that that on its own is already just like fucking hell and then you have to go back to goblin they just say at a boy and they fucking at a boy so good and they get to have their again and just their role battled vision 2.0 which yeah you even some of the the hits you get them going like ah sort of thing yeah hard hitting it feels like really beefy it's like it's good shit Willem Defoe was fucking fantastic as well as Tom Holland and then he picks up the glider he's about to do it well he does that cool move first though right the yes he does where he flips over and then slams him into the the shield fucking wrecks him yeah I think I think some of these yeah the sound the PS4 game he said they snuck some in there because they really like the moveset in that game so I think that might have been it oh really okay it looks like some from the game yeah but then yeah I was pretty pleased with a lot of the combat in this game when people are flipping around fighting um it was fun to watch the fights just sort of play out yeah and then um but yeah then uh then they they're looking on from the side Peter grabs the shield the glider he's about to bring it down and then Toby stops him and just looks at him and that's wonderful yeah it might be my favorite it really makes it the silence is just the look absolutely what I really like with talking I think yeah what I really like as well is that uh Holland's Spider-Man doesn't immediately stop like he actually tries to push Toby down as well for a moment yeah it's like oh get out of my way and then he realizes what he's doing right now and is like oh shit yeah I should probably stop yeah I okay I'm sorry two consecutive moments in chat I just don't understand either of them they're just chats chat set has contributed to this conversation why is Fringy creating strawman what strawman SJW moment what wait what all right I'm so confused so it's the the reason why they why don't you talk about seed I mean I just couldn't help notice but the Statue of Liberty was a brown woman so oh no uh we so are we talking about the scene now or are we talking about comments yeah let's talk about the scene okay so it's amazing like one of the best parts of the whole film if not the best part in the film it's my favorite part Toby's entire life and explanations and advice it's all coming through that face to Tom Tom knows this is the wrong thing to do he desperately wants to do it but it's wrong and it's not going to make anything better they don't need to say anything because they've already said it all to each other they already have that shared understanding and all that Toby is doing is he doesn't need to say it he's already said it he just needs to be there to remind Tom of everything that they already share well and I think he's created what happened for the other two Spider-Man that Tom didn't almost didn't get which is Toby didn't get the chance to execute the guy who killed Uncle Ben the guy died he never made that choice and he regretted he got the experience of the person being dead Garfield could never find the killer so he never had the chance to kill him and then so Tom here has his chance and he's taking it and so Toby's the one this time that's taking the chance away to give him more time because we can't undo taking a life yet yeah yeah and also just the other meaningful thing he gets to save Norman yeah on his own gladiator yeah yeah yeah with his own gladiator yeah so it's equally for Norman as and for Tom like it he's doing an active generosity for both of them in this moment absolutely he's not standing against Tom he's standing with him right now yeah um I could totally imagine a a version of this going differently where you know Tom stops himself or Andrew helps or whatever but it had to to be Toby. Toby had to stop that killing because it was his Osborne and just that going full circle where he stops another Spider-Man from killing his first arch nemesis with the same weapon, ironically. There's just a lot of meaning in that. Again, very, very simple, but so much meaning in it. Do you think it's deliberate that it's the same weapon? Do you think it's a very clear choice there that it's the same weapon that Norm originally died with? Considering how much care has been put into the other character payoffs, I think it was absolutely intense. Only not it being purposeful, yeah. It was on purpose. It was on purpose. Well, I mean, we've got both because it's the only real weapon there, right? It's the only deadly weapon, yeah. The fact is it's wider. They could have come up with some without any issues at all. It could have been a green goblin knife. It could have been a piece of wreckage, that was a sharp piece of metal. It could have been, you know, stuff. Just the shots leading up to it, too, are great because we saw. We saw Tom at one, but then we see him like huffing and puffing. He's like worn out. He's defeated. But then he's like, then he grabs the bladed, the bladed glider. And we know it's like, OK, he's going in for the kill. And that's that's just that progression there was just so subtle, but so great. Like, you see that he's one. He could stop him now. He could web him up. He could do whatever. But then he then he grabs the bladed weapon and we're like, OK, this is what's happening. And as someone in charge, point out that is the weapon that May was killed by. Yeah, the same weapon. So it's it's so many layers of a broken heart. And this ain't revenge of the. She died of saying great power and great responsibility in a spite of my movie. That's true. If it's a sentence, basically, yeah. Yeah, the universe is like, oh, she died because she plagiarized. You're not, Uncle Ben, you die now. Also the universe killed her for not being Uncle Ben. Whenever the visuals on screen stop, it shows being belted. A bunch of League of Legends videos. And so it was like, you watch that still. It's like that I might recommend this. We're watched together is I don't know. It's just to do with this channel, I guess. I definitely don't really want you to play League of Legends. Yeah, well, I'm trying to like, I don't know how to watch together works. It seems to recommend from the channel. The video is currently from, I think I'm not sure. But it's it's not something I recognize. I don't know who the guy is. The only thing I didn't like about that last fight was that they kind of did the, oh, I can't cross the 30 foot gap to get to Tom. And like Andrew was like had to throw something eventually, but he couldn't get there. Like that was the only thing like there's going to be too many Spider-Man in there and it's going to be messy. But Andrew definitely could have gotten to Tom and helped him. But I think it was the payoff was worth it. But it did make it did make that awkward moment where both both Toby and Andrew were easily within closing distance to go help Tom. I don't I think they were watching him pretty much not need any help. I think they were looking at him like, yeah, he's he's basically he's got Norman on the ground. He's beating him up. If we go over there, it's going to have to be to stop him, but they don't realize they're going to have to stop him yet. Yeah, I'm OK with this. There's lots of reasons Andrew might have hesitated to go forward as opposed to watching. I can absolutely believe that Toby was especially now with his, you know, he's more wise in his age and he's kind of the mentor Spider-Man. It was a part of him that was looking at that and was like, hmm, is he going to do it? Do I need to be ready? Just a case, you know, that kind of mindfulness that he might have that maybe Andrew Garfield wouldn't. And we both we both it's like also pay off for both of them, because they both said how they crossed the line. They they got to they got too bitter. They got too jaded and they started to stop pulling the punches and went to a dark place. And so they could they could identify that that moment in Tom. So I think that I think they do show. Andrew is like stood in place when he sees that Toby's been stabbed, like he was heading there, but then he stops in shock sort of thing. And then he throws it. I guess I have to look at the geography again. It it seems like it's one web swing away to me. So it's a little I understand you don't want too many. You don't want too many bodies in there, like blocking up the shot and kind of mudding up what's happening. But yeah, I don't think we've changed event wise, though. Maybe not. And he does get over there and help Toby as soon as Toby stabs. So like he's not he's not like assassinated or anything like that. But I did I did note that. Like, yeah, he could have gotten over there. But oh, well, it's fun. And goblins being like, I may have struck the blow, but you're the one that killed her. Like, oh, you you're mean. You're meanie. And then that's that's what Tom should have said to him. You you you're a meanie one, you are. Should have screamed that he was thrusting down the glider. You're me. Yeah, Norman's cured. And he's like, what have I done? Like, yeah, Norman's a pretty normal dude. So this is probably been a lot from to the orb. Coming out of that. He's the absorb a lot. Yeah. No. And yeah, I think bad being a ceiling tile or wherever the fuck I am. Jay brought it up earlier, but it is funny when all of the cracks are appearing as all falling apart. Then Toby just goes, is that happening or am I dying? Yeah, it's not not only is it funny. It's also a great character moment, I think, of just this genuine reassurance between the Spider-Man. Yeah, of like, yeah, I don't know. Maybe maybe it felt a bit real because like that's the kind of shit I just see when people have overdone it on whatever substance they're on. You get that kind of shit and I've been around that kind of stuff. Where people would have done that. And yeah, that felt very real to me that moment. That's the kind of reassurance that you give in that situation. And it did feel like very real emotional reassurance between these characters who have been built up to care about each other, even though they've only just met, but, you know, have meaningful connections already. I like that line from Andrew. It's like, you're in so much pain. It's like, yeah, I am like, yeah, I am. They've all been there as they kind of have almost like an extra sense because they've they've shared so many different universe, but similar experiences have all been stabbed. They've all been probably shot at. They've all been hurt beyond, you know, what most people have endured. So I just like that little extra development that very for how little screen time they actually share on screen that they have a really good camaraderie. Oh, yeah. It's great. It's nice to see instead of everybody trying to one up each other or be better than the other in that sort of thing. It's a cool thing. Like they're not in competition with one another. Yeah, it's nice to see people work together and actually want to achieve the same goal and try to like figure out tactics and plans and and really just care about each other's well-being. That's the thing I like. They they want each other to feel nice. Oh, yeah. Oh, my. Feel nice. Well, what is it? Is it is it wrong if they fuck? No, no, yes. Well, it's a sin against God. You know, I will allow it. I will allow it. I will allow it. Is it is it wrong to fuck the multiverse version of yourself? Yes, that's what he has established. Apparently, there's nothing at all that is like weird about this. Oh, that's true. Right. They do a little kissing. Like what? What a what an illa devised decision. Like it's just a story teller and you're advised is the stupidity from Cosmodor where he was like, why is everyone talking about the morality of it when it's not possible? The man, that's that's what man. What a great can some people just can't think of concepts, you know, the fiction. Some people are just not mentally prepared to entertain hypotheticals. It's very likely that you be in a situation where you could redirect a trolley to kill one person instead of five people. You know, you know, I just think it's like, do you know what a hypothetical is? Like, some of them are never going to have. You know that, you know, you know that yesterday, everything you're doing today was hypothetical. Yeah, that's true. Yesterday, you said tomorrow. Or is it a 2015 reference? I just I just watched that earlier today because it came up in my search results tomorrow. Pranks flexing is one of five IQ. Oh, yeah, bro. IQ, more like one of five IQ. I'm a very I'm super. I'm very, very expert. I've got lots of ideas. We have much skills. We're getting close to the end, you know, I'm a little bit. Oh, yeah, kind of are. We we sped up, or at least it feels like we did. We're seven hours. I don't know if it feels. Yeah, well, I guess I don't know. It feels that way. It feels like we would because, yeah. It that's all right. The strange thing, like they're all here because of you, which, by the way, we do spot, I think what I've seen online. It's it's Scorpion, Rhino, Craven, the Hunter, possibly someone else you see in the silhouettes, Spider-Man fans. I hope it. Oh, my God. I hope that Rhino was one of the ones who came through. Pulled your body. It'd be great. Yeah, imagine the same movie. But instead, you get like amazing Spider-Man's fucking amazing Spider-Man's Green Goblin, amazing Spider-Man's Rhino. And you get the Eddie Brock from Spider-3. Yeah. And the was what I'm Bonesong Green Goblin from bringing Bonesaw. Who's Bonesaw? The first guy that's all right. Yes. OK. Bonesaw is ready. Yeah, so I'd love to see that. We'll be very disappointed. He's happily married to his husband. No, no, we need all the Bruce Campbell's to come through. I like that Bruce Campbell. I really gave him his name. I was like, I'm the human spider. It's like that sucks. Spider-Man. Yeah. Apparently, he was going to be Mysterio in Remy's Spider-Man 4. That's right. Hey, I think it still happened. Oh, yeah, yeah. I mean, it's more likely now than ever, ever, right? I guess so. Yeah. Well, unless Bruce Campbell shows up in a Doctor Strange 2, right? I guess I would count. Yeah, he's like basically like they're all coming because of you. And he's like, we'll make everyone forget me. And then Doctor Strange says no. And then Peter's like, it would work, though, wouldn't it? And then he says, everyone who knows and loves you will have no memory of you, as though you never existed. And then Peter's like, do it. And I am totally fine with everything Peter says in this scene, but it's all out of character for Strange, as far as I'm concerned. First of all, how the fuck is Peter telling you about the spell that will work? Yeah. What? Secondly, yeah, it should be strange saying you're going to have to make this sacrifice. And, you know, like, because there's no way Strange ain't casting the spell to be fair. He probably fucking cast it already without telling Peter because it's tearing the universe apart. I'm sure Strange does care that this will be this will be tough for Peter, but that pales in comparison to everybody being torn apart by Spider-Man villains forever. Yeah, it's like the right conversation, but they just have to swap the two. The who's saying what? Like Strange should have the idea. He should be. But and the one, you know, resisting the idea should be Pete should be Tom until he realizes, yes, this is the only way I, you know, because one of the one of the long ending themes has been he's always about putting others before himself, like even in homecoming, he would ruin his own personal life in order to potentially save a few people. So he's always that's always been him. So when it comes down to like him or the world, he would choose the world, of course. I'm not sure that he should even be fighting back at all. I think I think it should just be a shared understanding if this is what needs to be done. Yeah, dude, having him say no to Peter. I was like, what the fuck? He would never say that. I meant Peter saying no to Strange. Is that in that hypothetical? I don't think that Peter should say no to the idea either. I think they should just both be like, yep, I get this needs to be done. I think you're right, but this is happening. I think that's the solution. It should have just been a conversation, but they both realize that's the solution. They both understand it's a huge sacrifice, but it has to be done. It also doesn't really make sense. As a solution. Someone called him Dr. String. Dr. String? I mean, he's not funny. Why is that funny? Dr. String? I don't know. That's not his name. My mind goes to Mouse Hunt for whatever reason. Yeah, I agree. I don't really understand why that spell is going to fix anything, but it's a meaningful choice for sure. Yeah, I mean, there's plot-wise, I don't know if it makes sense, but the characters understand this to be the solution and they know what's at risk and they choose to do it, which is very meaningful. It's incredibly meaningful for Peter to make a decision to us. Because the whole reason that the plot happens is because he wanted to preserve this life and now he makes the choice to give it up willingly in order to save everybody else. He also, another huge main factor for him is wanting to get his friends the opportunity to get to MIT. That's the thing that drives him over the edge. Well, they actually do get this in this conclusion, but he is basically sacrificing the life he's built up so far. Like he's sacrificing his life throughout the trilogy. Yeah, not only is he sacrificing his life, he is sacrificing anyone ever knowing that he's sacrificed. He'll get no recognition whatsoever from anyone for everything. It's thankless and it only detriments him. Well, it covers all three of the main lessons from the trilogy. Homecoming being it was never about the glory. He's giving up all the glory. Far from home being it's not about comparing yourself or how people see you compared to other people. It's like he's erased people's knowledge of him, like being compared to other heroes. It's not even like a factor anymore because he's unknown. And then the third being good deeds have great cost, which yeah, yeah, it's it's pretty excellent. Like it serves of just tying everything together from a character perspective anyway. Well, I mean, that's why we feel that Tom Holland, Spider-Man has just excellent right now position. We haven't even gone to the the additional choice he makes. Yeah. But he's in such a fantastic position that if ever he's ruined in future stuff, I'm just like, I'm just going to hug the trilogy. Trilogy is mine. Yeah, I guess we got this thing. Got this. The movie comes along as a man good monstrosity. Grab the little spray can notes. Get away. No, I have my things. I have my I'm going to sit on my porch with my things that I like and I'm going to yell out those damn kids. And I'm just going to be one of those people that I I just got to be one of them. Eventually, you're all going to turn to those people. Oh, yeah. So let's put it out of the chat. I'll never know what you sacrifice for the other. It's funny you bring that up because I just said Dr. Stray just rude beyond repair if he's going to be chill with what Wanda did. It's like he's been rude beyond repair post pretty much end game. As soon as you found out in end game that his one working plan was not a single working plan at all. He was pretty much ruined. Was not put Thanos in the mirror dimension. And he's responsible for so much bad shit at the end of end game. And then this film has absolutely just made him a fucking clown. So it sucks because that's what I liked about his movie. When Doctor Strange came out, I liked Doctor Strange. I wanted to see more of him and now it's like go away. Well, the fact that he's chill with Wanda is like, oh, fuck off, whatever, then. Someone said, well, no, no, some of the same people who's been complaining the whole time just said, what a prediction in a year. If you fall, if Apple say that plot doesn't matter. Yeah, we think about the plot this whole fucking time. Go away. I think you are. I think you're going to have to you've got to wait for the actual number scores. Yeah, yeah, we still got some of the numbers yet. It's great. The character writing is great. I'm sorry that us praising one aspect of the film makes you a rationally angry that we don't just hate it entirely because one of the other aspects of the film is weak. Well, I feel like I'm sorry that we're able to appreciate the film straight when it when it has flaws. Because they were sorry. I'm being sarcastic. You're being dumb. Stop it. Stop it. I do. I do think that some of you guys are going to be surprised. I do think that maybe, maybe not. I mean, if they watched the Suicide Squad coverage, they should be prepared for what's going to happen. Yeah. Yeah. Like there's still a lot wrong with the film. It's just the things that it really needed to get right. It outside of Doctor Strange, it fucking nailed. Like the only complaint I really have with the characters outside of Doctor Strange is I want more. I'm greedy. I want my four hour. My truck. The other spell. Oh, well, I guess I don't want to skip over. I really like his last interaction with the other spider men. Like he just gets an urge to hug them. And so it's just yeah. Yeah, I meant a lot to each other. He's come across as very normal people, you know, like, yeah. I know they're famous actors and I know that they're but they just come across as people you'd meet who are in the situation. You know, they really plucked. They're related, right? Yeah, they plucked them out of the very cinematic universes they came from and humanize them. Like you actually kind of got how electro feels, you know, how the kind of little personal problems and sort of things that the spider men worry about. Like they did a really good job of just making them into humans you care about. That's what they went through the good filter. Yeah, yeah, really good. And yeah, the hug out thing, like there's so much that they between helping them save and undo everything and save the world again, but also. Particularly for Tom helping him stop making stop Tom from making the biggest mistake of his life and killing Goblin like that would have. It's like you can't really express that in words, but they do it really well. Just like, thank you so much. And they like they're like immediate best friends, but they know that they don't belong here. So it's like a lot of things that you go over in such a short amount of time, but like in previous time, previous things we talked about simple, but you executed really well. So his final conversation with Ned and MJ is basically explaining to them that there's no other choice. Got to forget them and they both are very adamant that he get them back in his life. But they do the little secret handshake as well, which is genuinely I had a moment of like, oh man, I remember when I first saw that in Homecoming. It's actually like it feels like it was a while ago. He's these two lads. So it's been a fun ride. But yeah, that's a to erase all of that. And of course, by the way, this is why a lot of doesn't want them to forget the Spider-Man. Yes, because it's a bit like this. And yeah, he's 100 percent definitely going to get that back sorted. And then we get a little like thing from Jay Jonah about he's like complaining about Spider-Man. And then they sort of do it in a way where like the second half is complaints about how he's anonymous. And you're like, oh, yeah, so the spells now. And so that's like the part of the in terms of the choice. The spell parts really cool in terms of how it affects the world mechanically. I have no idea. No, that's how I get how that makes any sense. No bad questions about this. It needs to be erased like digitally, memory, you know, it's hard to erase people. It's very hard to erase all traces of people like with everything that's documented, birth certificate. Well, I guess I have a driver's license school and enrollment, you know, like census stuff. Just his online accounts, anything like stuff that he did. Stuff that's like, oh, wait, you know, let's say like two people met because like they were both friends of his. And it's like, oh, how did we meet? Well, I don't know. I think I think it would just be imagine if Brad Pitt, like the person just got erased from like existence in terms of memories and like who is in the movies with him in the footage? Yeah, exactly. What about everything that has to do with the role that he's played? Yeah. And what about how exactly do you account for that? We met and did a Brad Pitt marathon. And that's how we became really good friends or something. Like, yeah, does it become a do you become does it become like a Tom Cruise marathon instead? How do you guess that? I guess that is actually the the the least it has to be that or it's broken. I think that's I think that's and I think it is broken anyway. But still, that's the least broken thing. Mechanically, it's pretty bad. It replaces him with someone else in people's memories. I guess it's almost astronomical because you think about like they just wrote a book about his exploits with Spider-Man. Is that now every single page of every single copy of that book now magically rewritten? The e-book, the audio book is broken. Well, like, like, that's it's so universal. You the amount of information that has to be changed at this point is like strange. You God. Yeah. Like, there's a villain idea in that with with someone not being able to reconcile the memories of their own life with what they actually know about reality or something there. And I get the impression that I want to tell us, which is kind of annoying, but I don't even know how you begin to explain how this works. It's one of those things you just got. I kind of like don't think about it too much, which is not good. Oh, I'm going to be able to think about these things. We answer who cares about who cares about character work when the film is broken. Well, the character work isn't broken. There you go. No, the character decision is still really meaningful in terms of what it means to Peter. It means a lot. It's it's it's one of the greatest sacrifices that you can make short of like giving your life. Yeah. The idea that there is absolutely no recognition from anybody that you just did what you did. No one will ever know. And he has no support base anymore. He has no friends, no family. He's on his own having to make his own way in quite an unfeeling universe. You know, it's a very compromising position to be in. Yep. Well, I suggested it and he gave it all up. And then we get to him beginning to, you know, make make the situation go back to normal, at least to some degree, with getting back to MJ and Ned. He's got his little notes planned out. I'm sure he's thought about this for a while, but what he'll say, how he'll say it. You know that you can probably regain the relationship with those two pretty quickly. But right in, you'll know the references, knows what they care about, all that stuff. And so he's ordering his drink from MJ and he's just noting that they got into MIT. He doesn't go into order a drink. Doesn't he orders a drink, doesn't he? He orders a drink, though, because... Yeah, he goes in saying, Hi, I'm here. I've got Peter Parker, and then he goes to read. And she's like, yeah. And he's like, and I would like to order a coffee, please. Like him ordering the drink is him copying out of it. No, he hasn't copped out yet. He's buying himself some time. No, yeah, the drink is just him getting the gap because it's going to be really awkward to walk in and just start talking to her about stuff instead of ordering something. Anyway, yeah, he's almost just enthralled by how they are as they are, gets the drink. And then he starts asking her just normal person questions. And she answers them in ways that you can already start learning about her and their relationship is already developing. He's going pretty well, actually. And he even does the connection on the... If you're prepared to be disappointed. Yeah, and she's even impressed. It's like, oh, shit, yeah, that's that. Yeah. And then she brushes her hair aside as she's handing the drink over. At least I think that's it. And he sees the wound and he asks her, so, you know, is she OK? And she says, it doesn't hurt anymore. And he freezes for a little bit and then he puts his notes away because he just made a choice. And John Watts didn't make it explicit, which I'm very thankful for because it wouldn't be would be like that. Yeah. Why would why would he say out loud the choice he's making here? For people who don't understand characters, Jay, of which there's many. Unfortunately, there are people out there who way prefer it when characters are explicit about how they feel but how the characters feel, even if it's at the cost of them sounding like people. Yeah. So he's noted that his influence on her life and Ned's is damaged to them or at least puts them in serious lack of safety. Combine that with his thoughts from Goblin about how he killed Aunt May. Combine that with how even Doctor Strange told him like a lot of this is his fault. Just knowing the repercussions of all of his actions from the trilogy and just knowing that his life is going to be pursuing that of helping people. And the more he does that, the more he puts people he loves at risk. So he's not going to regain that relationship and I'll leave them be. Got to be, that's tough. That's big enough. What a choice to make. It's almost like he's going on a character arc. Oh my God. I was so impressed. Just thoroughly impressed when I saw this. I was just like, you actually had him do that. You had him make it so that those two will be safe by never talking to him again. Yeah. And then Peter gets into his dank apartment and makes his new homemade suit. It's the way I love the look of it. I like it. There's one scene before that, though. Just normally happy. Oh, is it? Oh yeah. I'm really tired now. We can't. Oh yeah, the other, the grave. Yeah. Which I think is the thesis of the whole trilogy at this point. Happy saying that he lost a friend a while back and that he was thinking that when they're gone is everything they stood for gone with them. The scene kind of fucks with plot even more, though. Do you mean because he says, how do you know May and he says through Spider-Man? I knew her through Spider-Man and they happy confirms that he knew May through Spider-Man. So it's like, so you know May through, you knew May because you knew that Spider-Man was Peter Parker. So how does that work? There is either, I guess it depends on how this, yeah, go ahead. Is it just supposed to be that nobody ever knew that Peter Parker was Spider-Man? Do they don't even know that he's... They don't know who Peter Parker is. Yeah, because Happy does not know that person standing next to him is even called Peter Parker, right? Or is Peter Parker? The Peter Parker that was with Aunt May, was there a Peter Parker with Aunt May now? I think I don't think they're, I don't know. Are we supposed to think that Spider-Man worked with Aunt May and it had nothing to do with them as family or blood or anything? I guess so, but then at that point, it makes you wonder what that, what Happy's memories are, cause god damn. Yeah, we know that Happy can't just have the memories erased. He has to have fake memories now, like about to work. Yeah, because if there's just gap, people will explore those gaps. Yeah, no, this is why it's unethical as fuck what Strange is doing with these memory spells. Yeah. Cause when Peter does it, you're like, well he's got his motivations, he hasn't thought through this all the way, he doesn't understand it from that perspective. You know, he is young and there's reasons, you know, why he might not, you know, consider that sort of thing. Cause Strange just like would understand it. Strange would understand it perfectly and he just does it anyway. And you're like, cool. But in fact there's so strange about it. But yeah, so I'm not sure that, that's just, it's the same point we made earlier. Just, I don't understand mechanically how any of it makes sense with the memories, but. Yeah, it has to be blood, right? Because just Aunt May, I'm assuming that's a blood relation. So like how, how is he, how are they both familiar with Aunt May, but not, yeah, that's complicated. Just, he's just kind of completely racist. And if you might be able to come up with something after a long time of thinking about it, but I don't, I'm, I just, I don't think it's, it's just bad. And they provide no explanations. So it's like, that's just video of SAS territory kind of thing. So yeah. And I've seen it noted that she should be buried next to Uncle Ben, I guess. I don't even know, he might be on that plot. I don't know. I actually thought that we're gonna do that. Show the grave there. They don't show it, but like, you know, he could be there. That would have actually made a lot more sense if they showed a grave there actually. That would have tied things up quite a bit actually. I'm surprised they didn't do that. Yeah. I am slightly confused about. I think I wonder if they would have had to show the date of death and that's something they want to leave ambiguous. Well, they didn't show her date of death either. They had flowers in front of it. Oh, that's true. Yeah, I guess we're meeting people. Because I don't think that the MCU even knows at this point what year it is. In the same point. And I don't know if the MCU knows what they've done with Uncle Ben yet. I'm not sure they know what Canon is for this universe, Uncle Ben. Well, I think, I think John Watts should be, would be allowed to make something though with that if he wanted to. I think he would absolutely have permission to confirm a story for Uncle Ben. But Falcon the Winter Soldier did not have permission to confirm Captain America's status. Though they are making Spider-Man freshman year or whatever the hell it's called, which is going to be like the MCU, an animated series that shows the MCU origin story or whatever. Oh. Oh. I'll say about that. You know what a great excuse would be. You realize Peter Parker lost after the blip, never recovered, you know, so and so. I don't know if that'd be, it's a pretty good excuse. I'm sure there's a lot of confusion after the blip. A lot of people probably lost their lives. But then people would know who he was and they would be able to see him still there. Peter Parker wasn't revealed to Spider-Man until after. He wasn't. But the spell erases all knowledge of Peter Parker from the universe. Yeah, so like his friends would still know who he was but then they'd just be like going, hey, you died ages ago. What the fuck, what? Well, yeah, I guess, yes, he has to be completely erased from memory. So I guess we're supposed to assume that Peter Parker never existed according to everybody. Yeah. So Spider-Man is just this hero that exists and nobody knows the identity of. Now? Yeah, okay. I don't know how the Avengers can square that away, but whatever is no point in thinking about how any of it works really. Because it don't. Yeah, yeah. Cause it's just fundamentally broken. He says. Such an insanely powerful spell, it's insane. It is, yeah. So he says, is it all gone with them for what they stand for? And Peter says, everybody she helped, they'll keep it going. He says, you think so? And he says, I know. And I think that's supposed to reflect on everything Peter's picked up across the trilogy from all of his different. Everybody from Tony, Art May, Ben. Even the villains. Yeah. He is filled with experience and it's just gonna be what he's gonna take with him now. It's a, as a lot of people point out, some people point this out derogatorily. I certainly don't. We've completed what makes a boy become Spider-Man. He's got all of his tools. How would you point that out derogatorily? You say it derogatorily. Say this was just an origin story for Spider-Man. Oh yeah. That's how you do it. Oh, no. Oh, no. Yeah, I don't know why there's a problem, but some people see it as a problem. I mean, it's amazing. Some people are dumb. It's kind of really interesting about this character. Oh, well, I was just gonna finish it off and just say he ends up in his small apartment. He's got very little money to his name. He's got to get his rent in and he's listening to a police scanner and he crafts his own suit to go out there and face that crime. Seemingly based and inspired by the other Spider-Man. Which is also perfectly reasonable. That's Spider-Man 2 Apartment. Is that the Spider-Man 2 Apartment? It looks very similar. So I'm wondering if that was intentional. I think it was a bit bigger than the Spider-Man 2 Apartment. Yeah, it's a different one. Hmm. I have no clue. Yeah, I hope they fix his damn door. Yeah. His damn door. Yeah, I mean, it's quite impressive because that's one thing that I always felt was weird is that they didn't really do his origin story. In the MCU, they kind of throw him in right in the middle of Civil War and then kind of, he's like, they kind of, it's almost comical how they say, like, oh, remember that spider you got bitten by? And it's like, yeah, well, spider's dead now. I'm sorry, you can't become Spider-Man as well. Well, but like, it's almost like really aware that it didn't have like a superhero origin story. But when you realize it and kind of put it that way, this is like a superhero origin trilogy. Oh, yeah, and all of his values, which is the important part, not, I want to see how he was bitten. I want to see Uncle Ben get shot 10 times in the face because that's what he's gonna see. It's actually like really, it's incredibly unique that way because it doesn't actually show any of the actual superhero power origins, but it thoroughly develops his character. It's really interesting. Yeah. Like, this does leave me wanting more. If I didn't have the larger existential knowledge of how rare good films are, this would leave me wanting, so like, I would want to see like, like the Logan equivalent for Toby McGuire, like continuing to explore his story. I want to see like whatever they want, wherever Tom Holland's story goes next. I didn't want to see what the hell Andrew Garfield's up to. I wouldn't even mind like an anthology film that kind of checks in with different points in the various timelines because they've just done such a great job of investing me in all three of these series. And I fucking hated the, well, I still hate the films individually, but I really, like the fact that I went, that I hate the Amazing Spider-Man films and these films still managed to really invest me in those characters. I just cannot, I can't understate how impressive that is. Well, yeah, what are you guys on? Sorry. We're on credits, it's done. You are now on free for all, say whatever you want. I liked the credits. Yeah, they were cool. I mean, we've got, oh yeah, they were cool. I liked the song and I liked the visuals. I guess we've got an end credits scene to discuss. Doctor Strange 2. I don't care about either of them. I don't care about either of the end credits. Yeah, I didn't see it. I guess the second one, the first one is just, oh, maybe there'll be Venom. Yeah. And the second one is, hey, Doctor Strange 2. In that trailer, I'm just, I was like, what the fuck ever? Nothing's gonna make any sense. I don't even care about him because he's an asshole at this point and Wanda's not gonna be, she's not gonna be punished for less for you. Yeah, you're such an MCU shill muller, Jesus. Yeah. What the hell? I know that some people probably be like, well, it's Sam Raimi. I'd be like, I don't, do you think Sam Raimi can rescue Doctor Strange at this point? Sam Raimi couldn't deal with put Venom in it as a studio requirement. Think about everything. Oh my God. Think about all of the studio requirements he's dealing with here. Yeah, your heart takes, you're gonna burn the EFAP. Your heart takes are like black goo from outer space. They ruin third films. In what way are they like black goo from outer space rags? Think it's self-evident. So that, I mean, if there's any other subjects you guys wanted to cover before we essentially get to conclusions. I mean, I feel like we covered everything. Yeah, I think that was the goal. We kind of did it. Then it would be Woody's Roundup, basically, now. Well. I'm, yeah, I don't know what I could add that hasn't already really been said. It's got problems. We lost Doctor Strange, but I really, really love the movie. What if everybody says their score and then we go from there like- All right, well, we'll go left to right, the number, that's it, out of 10. Just say the number. And this number is what you believed it to be in terms of its craft out of 10. No, none of your emotions, all right? Get them out of here. We did that already. We'll go away emotions. So, I just to check, Skipper, are you still alive? Excellent, we will start with you. We'll do this quick. Okay, everybody, you get ready. You're gonna go left to right and just say a number out of 10 that you think this film is in terms of what it achieves writing-wise. Go. Seven. I think I'm at a five, maybe a six, but probably a five. Wow. The premise is really flawed. I won't go over it. Say the fucking number. Okay, everybody pay attention to the rules. Seven. Six point five. Five. Six. Five point five. I'm also going to give it a five point five. You know, am I the lowest score? I think I said probably a five. Okay. That makes you the lowest. That's hilarious. I feel like us two, me and you are the ones people already spec the highest score from. Yeah, it's real awkward, man. Especially if you tweeted, they all said they love it. 9.5 out of 10 incoming. Man, yeah, that's super awkward, though. If you can't see that. I think like a single number score for this film is pretty meaningless, right? Because it knocks so much shit out of the park and then fucks so much other stuff up. Like that's yeah. Suicide Squad kind of thing. The Suicide Squad. This is definitely a Suicide Squad situation. My logic is that the character work, they achieve more and a lot higher points and more than Suicide Squad does, but the Suicide Squad didn't destroy a character. Yeah, yeah. So it kind of levels out. But in terms of plot, in terms of plot, I think the Suicide Squad is just like a garbled masterful way through. The Suicide Squad doesn't break reality. Spider-Man, Spider-Man breaks reality. Yeah, that's fair. But once it's broken reality to get the story going, it's fine until the end when it fucks it again. Yeah, at least it doesn't waste breaking reality. It doesn't waste breaking reality, I guess. Yes, that's a good way to put it. It breaks the universe in the end. Because I think I've said it a couple of times, Dr. Strange was sacrificed so that the three Spider-Men may live. Like that is the actual idea. Dr. Strange, run to the cross, please. If, just because I think people will be curious, if we could just go left or right quick as well, what is your number for emotional flumes? And remember, that one's subject to all kinds of change. I imagine genuinely how you feel on the time of day, but I'm just curious. As an emotional experience watching this thing, how did it rank for you? And I guess maybe we'll go right to left this time just to shake it up with meme going first. And I just want a number. I don't want any rationalization. I'm gonna say an 8.5. Eight. Eight. About 8.5, yeah. Nine. What's four? 8.5. I think I'm gonna, I think I'm in an eight, yeah. Two. No, I'm just kidding, mate. No. Wow, Alvin, come on. No, I'm just a skeleton person. Yeah, I think that's super interesting to think about, that it is scoring so high on enjoyment levels with so many people. Yeah. Yeah. I was not satisfied by a movie like that in a long time. I feel that I just, it's, I loved it. I loved watching it. I loved the feeling I had when I walked out of the theater. I enjoyed talking with the people about it. And I'm so, like I said before, many hours ago, it's like a weight is lifted off my shoulders that they stuck the landing with Tom Holland, Spider-Man. And the trilogy we got was so well realized in terms of his character and his development. And if it ended here, I would be super satisfied. I'd be totally fine if this was the end. I think that we basically got a trilogy that is the strongest in the MCU because like, I think far from home would be the weakest because it doesn't achieve as many character highs and it's still got tons of plot issues. But you compare it to like the other MCU like trilogies. You know, there's Iron Man three, there's Winter Soldier four, two. Nervously sweats. I thought one, I guess, well, it feels like a, I am super happy with the character writing throughout this whole series. It feels like the plans definitely changed. They obviously changed, but they still managed to achieve a surprisingly cohesive like central arc. It's great. What do you mean the plans obviously changed? Dude, there was no way that the third movie was meant to be like a multiverse movie. That was absolutely different. It was meant to be crazy. All the contracts with Sony, Spider-Man, and everything else changed. They've been probably very floaty throughout all of this. I think that the arc was probably planned. Well, that's what I'm getting at is I think that a lot of things changed, but they didn't lose sight of what they were going for as a story. It feels too well aligned and it all just slots in so well that I can't help but feel like it was the plan from the beginning that by the end, we basically do get to the Spider-Man that people are more familiar with on his own, doing his own thing, having learned his lessons and kind of ready at this point, like in the next trilogy to take on the role of a mentor. There we have it, Spider-Man. Yeah, with the... Oh, by the way, I love the title because at the end there's no way he can get back to what he knew as his safety nets, no way home at all now. Yeah. And I'm maybe dead and an older than memory being wiped. He's just nowhere as safe for him as he's on his own now. Yes. I wouldn't tell someone I like a movie and thought it was good and then rated a five. Welcome to E-Fact. That's awful, yeah. Oh, for God's sake. You clearly haven't been paying attention. I wasn't as... You should see how many films have been rated a three. I think this film is very good, but I also think this film is very bad. I feel like every time that if any of us, because we might have said it, that it was good, we probably were just saying characters specifically, not overall. Yeah. I think I'm happy to say this film is good because to me, characters are very important. Character is the most important part for sure. I guess a lot of this... A lot of the stuff is also very meaningful and it's just the plot and the world building that is pretty broken. The plot isn't even broken throughout. The premise is... It forces the premise with broken shit, but yeah, the stuff that works within the premise is fine. Well, it's not just fine. It's good, it's just... Yeah, yeah, yeah. I guess the problem is I don't want to plot matters. I would be happy if this film had a better plot. Yeah, and the ways in which the plot breaks break the fucking universe. Like, that's the issue as well. But if it's a good plot... I guess the problem is good plot, bad characters. I don't know what that looks like. Usually if the plot is good, it means that the character work is good. I guess I'm happy more so with No Way Home and the Suicide Squad. Like, I can take that. Oh, dude, do I be happy if we just got these movies all the time? Yeah, I was about to say that. Damn it. I think that's kind of reflecting the score when you think about it, because like a 10 out of 10 character work and one out of 10 plot, that's a five. I guess I wouldn't do a 10 out of 10 in character work because of Doctor Strange, I think. I guess to clarify my score, it's that if the character's score is like, is almost like an 11 out of 10 for the good parts, but then we get negative scores for Doctor Strange, we got, the theme is doing great, as far as I'm concerned. Yes. Especially in conjunction with the trilogy. It's like, in fact, that was this top scores as well. But plot is like a mixed bag. There's some horrendously bad stuff, but then there's some stuff that is working. It's like a weak, really weak, like lower end of the scale. And then world building, I feel like we're really bad. Rock bottom. I guess the problem is the MCU was already fucked anyway in terms of like world building. So it's like, I guess it's just another one to add to the plan. Yeah, no, I think it is unique in how it's destroyed the world building. So there's that. It's just that the MCU's world building is some of the worst now ever. Yeah. Like for any IP, is there something that has worse world building at this point than the MCU? Like it's just... No, because Star Wars has better world building. It doesn't break time. DCU hasn't gotten there yet, as far as the world building, right? They haven't, well, flashed back on its time somehow. Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. But it's just like, how does that scale to like the spell that erases the white? And end game, end game just is completely and utterly dysfunctional in terms of world building. Now there's some people that's not confused about, I guess the five out of 10 being average. It's like, yeah, we don't do the like grading scores of like five as a fail, you know? Also in Australia, five isn't a fail. Five is a pass. Why would we have, what's the point of having like seven fucking degrees of failure and three degrees of success? Yeah, that's not the system. I'm willing to clarify that's just not what we do. That's not how we do it. No. I mean, I'm fine with people using that system. I just, it feels very pointless to me. Just shows you how stupid the whole number thing is and like overall, because everyone is using different metrics. I don't think it's stupid. For people who are fans of Eve, have they know exactly what it means, where it sits? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. I might be just, but you look around the internet like a lot of people say, yeah, there wasn't a right movie, seven out of 10. It's like, huh? No, no, yeah, that's because I think that's what I mean. Maybe you guys would disagree, but usually the way that it works for me is like one is catastrophic, great time or space. So I said you're all parroting baller. I was the fifth rating, the fifth one. But also, but also, what about the story from yesterday though, after Rags had seen the film? Well, oh yeah. I'm just, I just, and they said like, again, I disagree, it's pretty simple. If someone tells me it's a five, it's an easy pass. It's like, not an E-faps world, man. Five is all, like, that means there's a lot of achieve. Did you, did you not hear like Corey was saying as well? It's like, oh, there's really fucking excellent stuff in this, but it's dragged down by some stuff that's really shit. Yeah, I would make an infographic, I swear to God. I feel like a lot of that has been forgotten and it's like, there were parts in this where we just like all agreed that that was bad. Like Dr. Strange got no pushback. Everybody agreed with that. Yes, everyone agreed with that. I don't see how, like, I don't see how it's like, if I only feel, I feel like people here just don't understand that nuance is a thing. Like, I know that there can be films that I've got, I've got loads of stuff in them that's really worth seeing, but also got trash in them as well, like. I think, I just feel like it is a situation of there are a lot of people who will see the stuff that they like and then completely ignore the bad, especially in situations where the bad seeps into the good, like it taints the good. You can also have the opposite where like you can't appreciate anything that's just working because like you're still stuck on something that is a problem, but it's both relevant. Haven't we? I think we've got, I don't get more of that in chat than the other one, but yeah, we do get people in chat who like have spotted one flaw and like, ah, I have now concluded that the film is terrible and you guys are ignoring the flaw by saying good things about it. You've been getting a lot of that. But I guess, I guess maybe to clear it up and sounds like the system five basically means like as much good as bad in like very reductive, simplistic terms. You have to be a little reductive when you're, you know, when you're summing up the quality of something to a number between one and 10, then it's not going to translate perfectly. It's just to be used as a general guideline. And I think it's one that we're pretty darn consistent. And when I was getting ready to rate it, I was considering just like opting out and being like, yeah, I don't think a number rating is meaningful for this film. And I don't think it's meaningful for this film. Like I was considering though just being like, no, I'm not going to give this one a number. Like it's a nine, but also it's a one. I mean, that is what is labeled on the tin. That's what those scores do. If anybody got confused by that, that's on them because that's what they're supposed to be, they're just summaries. Well, they're not meant to be taken as like the most important part. It's the same as like when you watch a review for a video game. Nobody doesn't tell you much. It is funny to be like, what even, what does it mean? I wouldn't even, it's like, you just listen to what? Eight hours of us giving you the context for our score. Like, come on, you, you, you. Yeah. A little bit. I mean, you can go and watch some video essayist ramble for 10 minutes about bullshit nonsense and then slap an eight on it and you can feel like you're smart and fulfilled or you can listen to us. It's a bad writing system. I don't know, man. Can you give us a better one? It's okay for the purpose. Yeah, like, yeah, like. I feel like the only way to improve it is to make it more nuanced. Make it. Give it more of a new one for the first eight hours. Okay. Yeah, exactly. So like, yeah, I guess, I guess a system where we give it a number for character and a number for plot and a number. Yeah. Even then, it's like, oh, character. Well, like, I mean, the Spider-Man nine. Doctor Strange two. Yeah, I mean, you have to really break it down. Like the main character's journey, you're like the main character's journey was really high in this one, but subsidiary characters like Doctor Strange are very, very low. The plot that thrusts the story forward is really good, except for the fact that it completely destroys the world of magic. So you're like, how do you break that down to a way where you can, you can both praise the good things and criticize the bad things? Like, it's really tough because like, I wasn't nearly as keen on the MCU Spider-Man films as you guys were for the most part when I was walking into this one. And I was like, oh man, this is gonna be the end game of the Spider-Man trilogy. And as of like the first half hour, I was pretty much thinking that I pretty much hate the film, but once goblin turns and things start getting interesting and then especially when they start interweaving and setting up all these great, great arcs for all the Spider-Man characters, it's like, wow, this really, it broke its neck. Like I said, broke its neck on the starting line, but ran really hard to the finish. Like it did a great job. Yeah, third act in that too. Third act is very good in terms of salvaging the premise and tapping it for all it's worth. Yeah, absolutely. So it's a rag scene confused. He thinks we like this movie, Lol. I don't know, you should look at that poll. Yeah, the poll says you guys liked it. Yeah, the poll says y'all liked it. And I would be surprised because I love this movie. Yeah, this game has a 10 for me and feels. Cause usually when something is like a fiber above, that's generally like a good thing. It means the good bestifies or at least equals or outweighs the bad. I feel like the good is worthwhile. Definitely good. It's just varying degrees of good. Like six is as close to not being good as is possible. And then like 10, if that exists, is like this hypothetical of incredible near flawless movement. That's the one thing about your guys writing system that I just agree with is that 10 is like excluded for literal perfection. I'm happy with that personally. Well, it's like, what you've done there is you've made it. What you've done there is you've made a number in your rating system useless. Why not just have 10? No, it's not useless. There was a hypothetical 10 out there. Absolutely. No, there's a 10, it's that woman's suit. That's true. As far as I'm concerned, 10 should just be like the top dollar, like top, you know, 0.1%, but not necessarily perfection. You can round it up if you want to say that, but it wouldn't be a 10. Well, yeah, so I think, yeah, basically, 10 should be rounding up anything that is above a 9.5. You're welcome to do that, but it wouldn't be a true 10 at that point, would it? Yeah, you're a pretender. But Jay, let me ask you this. Can you have a zero out of 10? Well, you've not seen flux. The closest you can get. I'm scared. Oh, no. But do you actually think you could have a zero out of 10? Yes. I don't think so. I don't think you're going to ever get a zero out of 10. Yeah, I think things that are zero out of 10 are like a toaster. You're like, huh? Yeah, it's not a film. It's not a story. Bob walked to the store. He had no legs, which is my go-to example of just like broken storytelling. I don't think that's a zero. Yeah, there's still something in there. This is still, there is still. I don't know how you get there is bother. Yeah, how do you get between zero and one? If one is breaking like space, time and logic, then how do you go work? So flux, break, space, time and logic. And then while it's doing it, it barely even resembles a fucking story. Like it's just a series of scenes that sort of happen to exist. Too dissimilar from the infinititisms. We've been through it with that. The same thing, really. It's more fun with infinititisms, though, because it's all superheroes. It's just thing. Incoherent screaming is a zero out of 10. I feel like that's even a one because I still understand the notion of screaming. There's progression there. I know what screaming is. Well, because somebody said like zero out of 10 for a video game would be like unplayable. It's like, yeah, basically, like as soon as I put the disc in my console explodes, that's like a zero out of 10. But I don't know what that looks like as a film. Yeah, if a film is a story, I think that a zero would be something that simply isn't a story. Yeah, it is a sequence. Because if a one would have to be the bare minimum for what something is to technically constitute a series of events, right? But I think so. It's just it's just like the bare minimum definition wise. Like it technique. This is technically a story one out of 10. Well, that's why, you know, 10 being a hard one to reach is why if if EFAP says something's like an eight, like you're probably dealing with something that's pretty fucking good. At least I try to reserve eight and above to be more exclusive. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. That's a nice happy club where everything is great. Misfits series two, episode one. I was a little bit. Maybe, yeah, I, yeah, maybe. Go ahead. It's just the lost so much respect for you guys. Sheila at this point would be surprised if you guys rewatched last Jedi stuck clapping your hands like you are with this film. Just reminds me of the last of us two when the guy in my chat was like, I've lost so much respect for you. Criticizing the last of us two. How could you? Why does it have to be so disingenuous? It's like, oh, now you're shills because you like this one. I bet you're going to love. Yeah, like we talk for eight hours about the movie. We talked about this move. Find someone else who at least care enough to talk about eight hours. Find the flaws that we missed. Go on, do it. Yeah, I mean, go for it. I mean, I'm sorry. That's what I'm like. Yeah, just find the flaws that we missed because when you, when you without citing flaws, when you say I've lost respect for you guys because you've said this, what I'm hearing is I rationally hate this movie so much that you just saying like the events that happen in it. It also feels weird to be so like me deeply. Like so aggressive about it when I gave it a five. And I guess also just keep in mind like, oh yeah, MCU shills coming from the group that has been hypocritical of like basically every MCU thing for the last few years. I haven't seen Hawkeye. I don't care. Turtles that didn't care anymore. Just, we don't even have to branch out from this movie. We're glad that Peter is away from all of those fuckers in the MCU right now. Yeah. That's right. We're glad he escaped. Yeah, they're safe. Never look back. Because that whole mind eraser thing is basically as a backdoor reboot in case the contracts don't get renewed and they can still use that version of Spider-Man independent of the MCU because no one remembers who the fuck he is. So, yeah. Yeah. All right. Yeah. Spider-Man, no way home. We did it. Yeah, it's bad as you guys have eaten up all of Spider-Man in the MCU. Yeah, it's good. It's bad as you guys have eaten up all of the Spider-Man in the MCU. I'm pretty, I think Far From Home is like a four. Yeah. I think that's what we've completed on. So, yeah, that's not exactly, yeah. I'm like, yeah. The character writing is excellent in all of these films. The plot is garbage in two and one and a half of them. Yeah, I don't know what I meant to do with that. It just doesn't, are you just mad because Uncle Ben is not in it? Like, what always feels like you're walking out of it. I mean, arguments, man, give us arguments. Give us arguments. Please, you have enough characters in your chat thingy to give an argument. Or at least start off with one. We ate them up. It's like, you understand our perspective is that a lot of people very much harshly hate these films unfairly. Like, we'll just do the opposite of what you said, basically. Like, what is the opposite of eating it all up? Like, you just poop all over it. There is a spectrum here. You know, like, it's not all great or shit. Well, it's just like, it's a waste of chat to just be like, you guys are biased. Like, okay, you're biased. Next. Like, all you're doing is being inflammatory at that point. Well, I argued for far from home last time. I did because I think that film was overhated. That doesn't mean that I think. Well, specifically, we said it's better than Winter Soldier, which was one of the most unpopular things you could say on the Internet, and we managed to fucking successfully argue that, I think. Anyway, I think so. I am thoroughly confident that the way to soldier is bad. Like, as a moderator for that debate, I can confirm that it does seem that a far from home definitely turned out to be better than Winter Soldier. Winter Soldier falls apart at practically every level upon examination. I don't know if they're talking to us, all the people in chat, but I'm just enjoying the person who said, Cry more coo me. I enjoyed the alliteration there. That was that was lovely. Well, I found that funny with, like, when we were having arguments in the earlier parts of this and someone was like, wow, coping. And I was just like, which side? Who are we talking about? I can't tell you. Are you just describing your experience right now? I was just like, man, coping with this. Man, I am coping. Yeah. I'm really coping with it. Oh, what a useful. Still, Winter Soldier is way more fun. Thanks. That's really helpful. Oh, yes. What you're saying there is I enjoyed it more, which is cool. That's allowed. Well done. But that's all you've said. I shall allow. I enjoyed far from home way more than Winter Soldier. Oh, see, now there'll be like no lion. Oh, boy. Because I've enjoyed far from home way more than homecoming, even though I think homecoming is the most superior film. Yeah, that. So, yeah, homecoming is because you might have deduced from the number scores, homecoming is the strongest as a as a story. Overall, I think. I liked no way home the most, though. Yeah, I like no way home the most out of the three. I think I like no way home the most. But homecoming is the stronger overall movie because it's it's got like a pretty sound plot. Yeah, to be fair, I just like no way home. It is poop. Honestly, though, I think it's sorry. I like no way home more than a lot of movies that are better than it. Yeah. I think it's just the without the other Spider-Man, I would like far from home more, but the other Spider-Man push it's itself for me. It's a lot like the Star Wars trilogy, actually, because like Star Wars, the original is by far the most like coherent, close to airtight plot of them, of the three, but and Sans alone the best, but like the payoffs and return of the general by the being, but return of the Jedi probably being the easily the most flawed film in the empire is the most chaos sound plot. I mean, I like Empire the most, but I would say Star Wars, Star Wars, the original keeps it simple, keeps it airtight. Like, I think it's the most as well. I'm not sure. I can't remember. It might. Jay, I'm making a new film where I jangle cocky is your favorite type of. Oh, my God. And my point was that despite Oh, he's the guy we left out here. really, really stupid stuff in Return of the Jedi. It has that like amazing throne room scene and payoffs that make the whole trilogy amazing. So it's like, despite it being one of the more flawed, the most flawed of the three, it's got the best payoffs. So someone said when when Far From Home release, you guys said it was possibly better than homecoming. You guys are going to turn around on this movie, too. It was like, maybe. Why? Yeah, maybe we've done the best we can to get all the arguments. We've been watching chat for them as well. We had people who we've had many disagreements. It's like until we find more things like end game, I think the original rating we gave it was a three. I think it might have been a three or a four. Now it's gone down since then. It has gone down. Oh, are you looking at one two territory now? I feel like it's, man, it probably is a one. I don't know how it can with all of the time travel stuff. It's utterly broken. And the character is broken. Thanos destroyed the stones and they broke the timeline with Captain Marvel. And I don't know if that's when the MCU broke, but they certainly fiddled with the timeline with Captain Marvel. You know, they did do that. Well, Captain Marvel was more of like a thing of, does she really slot in here? Does she? I feel like she existed, but she didn't. They change the how it was Captain Marvel and the events of Captain Marvel that let humans. Oh, true. The Avengers named after her. Yeah, they didn't. They fiddled with that. That's true. They did. But I guess it's not a huge break. Yeah, but it's still like, what do you do and stop? Stop retconning to make her special. She sucks. Um, I guess I'll end the poll. It feels like it's been long enough. Oh, boy. Or what do you give Spundo? What do you give Spundo? No way home. And it looks like the chat have on average, I'd say right at high than we have. Well, five to six is the most popular. And then seven to eight is the next one. Oh, God, maybe it's the loud minority this time around. Yeah, I mean, I guess seven to eight would also be seen that way as well, which further that matches the loud what I have seen of the discourse of this film. Yes, people love this film. And it didn't surprise me that they would because of like, it's not just about having Ramion Web Spider-Man's in there. It's that they were handled with care very well. This was this was a love letter to the trilogies. It was a respectful send off to the characters. It was handled very well, and it should be used as a model to it to emulate in a way. Hopefully we'll get that. But they made their respective franchises better for this film, which is really impressive, exhausted. And I would like to hop out here, gang. Jay, do you want to mention what you do in your flimmy flams and where everyone can find your glooms? What I do in my flimmy flams is private. Oh, well, that's up to you. I offer it to everyone. What about your glooms? Oh, my glooms. I make YouTube videos. You guys know what I do. I'm working on a video about a son. You guys you guys leave that up. Yeah, yes. Watch it live and leave. Yeah, anyway, it's been real, real fun, fun. It's been real, bro. Gay, gay, my boy. Well, so I was going to say, like, anyone else? Well, we're actually going to we're going to stop around here. It makes the most sense. Oh, OK. I told you. You got eight hours of us dancing for you, right? Yeah, eight hours of and shouting to them. Don't forget. I, in retrospect, too, I am glad. I think we were on a call when I did it, Mauler, when I reserve the ticket for this movie. I went to a 10, 15 p.m. Showing of this. So I got back today from seeing it. I got perfect seat, best seat in the house. I was the first one to reserve a spot. And when I went to that theater, it was packed. This one's going to make tons of money. Yeah, well, well, I'm assuming all of our audiences, they were making noises. They were there were noises all over the place. That to me is like, oh, we got some emotion come out here. Word of mouth advertising. Oh, yeah, you know, they normally don't do any noises while the movie is going. But this one's like, oh, ah, yeah. I forgot how much audience reaction can be a thing with a movie where people clap, people react, people cheer, like definitely crowd pleaser. So I see this doing really well. I'm really a lot here. And I wasn't upset when everyone clapped around me. I generally don't care too much for that in movie theater settings. But there was a part of me that was like, I'm I'm really glad that people seem to like this and they're clapping it. Like when Daredevil showed up and there was, you know, there was some clapping people like people were like, oh, wow. And I was like, hey, you know, I'm glad people, you know, see that and recognize it. And I like it. You know, Garfield shows up. Everyone's like, yeah, all right. This kind of felt good to get that kind of cheer and that sort of thing. Ask a chat saying he cried a few times watching it. Look at that. I'm not going to lie. I got teary eyed through a lot of it. I I Aunt May got me. It was the Spider-Man that got me, man. I might have just have them all there together. You're in the fluids that, you know, pipes were broken in some way, I guess. I need maintenance. I was just going to say the rage. You reminded me of, you know how like, because there's always someone who's at the movies and they talk, you know, how like when you go to movies, there's there's usually that guy who it feels like everything that they say, the the the subtext is, hey, I know a lot about like how this movie was made and the matter. There was a guy sitting next to me who kept making observations about the matter and like, oh, so I guess that confirms it. Like, you know, Daredevil is our candidate in the MCU. I guess. Thank you. We're looking at him. Go away. I got close to getting mad at that guy. He got quieter later on, which was good. But my God, just reminded me of the shitty aspects of going to the movies. Yeah. Yeah, I really I like the movies, but man, I really like being home with my stuff and my food in my bathroom and my pause button and my no distractions. It's really nice to have those things. It is friends who know when to shut the fuck up instead of people be like, I mean, I'm I'm I'm I'm sitting there in my chair and I got I like, I can't drink a soda in the theater because I'm like, I'll have to I'll just have to pee. I don't want to I got a weird showing. I had so much going on on Friday that I ended up getting like the earliest matinee showing around at 10, 20 a.m. And I and I was like, OK, I don't I don't want anybody around me. So I got the very, very back row with like two or four like four unoccupied disabled seats around me. I'm like, OK, nobody's going to be around me. And I can hear any chewing a little bit further away from the screen. But it actually paid off really well. I could get I could relax. I had one of those like, you know, recliners. And I was just like, OK, this is pretty close to being at home, can't pause, whatever. But, you know, it's good. It was actually pretty fun. But for me, it's always interesting because I have to look for the original versions. So I get the English speaking stuff, you know. So the German dub. Yeah. Is that how theaters are over there? They offer English speaking movies. Yeah, it's like a couple of showings in the week where they have like the OV version. And then I have to look over those. So those are mostly not superfall. I didn't know that. But that's almost like half fall, even like at the late screening I did. I was like, that's people want to see the movie. That's very interesting. Because normally these ones are. You shouldn't have lost that World War, man. Yeah, all right. It's like when I watch foreign films, I want to watch them in their native language. I'm happy with subtitles. Yeah, it makes total sense that you do that. I guess I just never thought about it. I guess I'm not sure because I feel like I've seen a movie in theaters before that had subtitles. I feel like I have, but maybe I haven't. I watched Crutch and Tiger, Hidden Dragon in the theater like three times with subtitles. I loved it so much more than you when I have it speaking Mandarin. Yeah, I prefer it personally as well. I don't like the dub so much. Yeah, so yeah. Oh, well, any any upcoming movies that you guys are interested in seeing or on your radar to watch that you're interested in? I'm going to watch Sonic the Hedgehog, too. I'll see Idris Elba, Knuckle. I'm going to see Matrix 4, I guess, but not because I'm excited. Oh, right. Right. Yeah, I mean, it's for it's for it's for work. Is that that's coming out on HBO, though, so we can we can we can watch it digitally, right? I think so. Yes, it is on HBO. Yeah, I don't care about seeing that in theaters at all. No, me neither. I'm a big I'm a really, really big Matrix. Oh, the Batman, of course. I'm looking for Batman. Oh, yeah, Morbius Batman. I would like to see the Batman. I would like to see that. Let me see. Shame. I requested that one from the discord and they did not disappoint. Maybe maybe maybe Thor, Love and Thunder Thunder could be could could be fine. I guess I'm looking forward to that. Yeah, also, Guardians 3. Yeah, Mission Impossible 7 is finally coming out. Anything else that's not superheroes? God, superheroes are like something everywhere. I'm sure that there was something that's coming out, but I can't think of it right now. Moonfall. Oh, is that next year? I think it is early next year, like February. Moonfall, Roland Emmerich. Well, my dad is. He wants to go see it. And we like the popcorn, crunchy, funsy theater movies where it's just all awful. So we know we like it. I hear that. Well, so because I think the last film that Roland Emmerich made was about Midway, and that was independently financed, and it was a movie you wanted to do for a long time. And I hear that it ain't bad and that, like, compared to other Roland Emmerich films, it actually is not bad at all. Interesting. Didn't he do a Patriot or was he? He did the Patriot. Remember, that was one of the things when we watched that film where I'm like, I struggled to get over it for a while. That's a good movie. I like it. I think it is a good movie, actually. I don't know why I said it like that. Well, you can you do both. I liked it. It was a good movie. Independence Day is one of the stupidest movies ever, but I love it. I like Independence Day a lot, too. Yeah. I think so. Yeah. But the fact that they beat the aliens by using a flash drive on a computer. They hack the aliens with a MacBook. That feels like one of the earlier examples of online discourse about plot holes. So it feels like one of those movies where technology is kind of entering into plots in its own particular way. And it's just you give us a lot in the 80s with hacking. Yeah. You can just hack anything. You know, communicate. It's just it's just what computers can just sort of solve whatever is fine. Just just hack the thing, do it, boom, boom, boom, boom. We hacked. We're in the access to mainframe. My favorite fact about that movie is that they actually got a technical consultant on there, Christopher Weaver, who was the founder of Bethesda Softworks. For Independence Day. Yeah, for Independence Day. Yeah. And they actually based they based. I was his name, the the guy, the hacker guy, Jeffrey Goldblum's character. They'd based him on Jeffrey Weaver. Sorry, Christopher Weaver. So yeah. But I don't know what kind of consulting he did or what they listen to, because that movie does not have any sort of sense of computer technologies and what they're what they're capable of. It feels like the common thing where it's like they got the consultant and then they're like, yeah, but we want to tell their story. So sorry. Yeah. It's like, we know like computers are now, but we want to do this because it's awesome. Like a Lord Visor for a Star Wars film. Yeah, bit. Yeah, I know why you're here to say that we had you. Yeah, it's pretty funny. Well, sometimes we do. Should we do exits for everybody then? Seems like the thing is, you know what? I think we can do that. All right. Well, you know, we'll just go left or right. I figured we're excluding the people who are here all the time, because we've talked more than enough. You know, that's what I'm talking about. Wow. Oh, we have you've been you've been on e-fab now for eight hours and 20 minutes. How does it feel? Dang, these things really feel like it. Wow. Oh, my God, it's dark outside. Oh, shit. Yeah, we'll do that. It's been fun chatting with you. Maybe maybe we'll chat again sometime about a different topic or something, because I know there's a lot of people here. I apologize and speak too much. Everyone was already saying what I was thinking. So I was just. It was crowded for your first one. Yeah, that's A-OK. That's A-OK. Always. Yeah, just. What do you want from them though? Yeah, what are you up to? Yeah. Why should people subscribe to your disgusting chat? I'm pretty much up to nothing. I just got on. I'm a college student, so it's winter break. My second day. So I'm just. Yeah, I'm going to start something. Wow, you really sold yourself. Oh, wow, I didn't know anybody would subscribe. I just, it's incredible. I got nothing in the works before. I guess I should. I should probably. Future ice bigs, maybe, or? Definitely not. Oh. Oh, no. Probably not. What about how was back for blood and halo, still games you don't like? Oh, definitely. Oh, no. OK, that is true. I'm going to make a halo video. That's something on the campaign. Oh, by the way, I'm playing back for blood update. The game's a whole lot better now. What are they doing? Well, they updated a whole bunch of stuff for the difficulty and a lot of balance changes, a lot of bug fixes that were screwing around with the difficulty. I was my friends and I, we just we just gave up on it until it was patched and that patch came out the other day and we played it and we liked it quite a bit. We were having fun. Yeah, that's been my biggest complaint about that game, either breeze through fights or they just completely crush you. Definitely worth a look at now that it's been updated because they took a lot of the complaints to heart and they fixed a lot of specific specific problems. So I would I would highly recommend it. I would I recommended it at first and then we saw what the issues were. And then I kind of withdrew that recommendation based on that. And so now that that's been resolved, I will now re recommend back for blood. It's a great co-op game. I'm not great. It is definitely a worthwhile co-op game that is fun to play with your friends. We'll get ready to change the score again because they just got bought out by Tencent. So yeah, sure. They'll try to mono. Yeah, we go again. Yes. Well, all righty then. Indigo, Gabon, what are you up to? Why should people subscribe? Well, I just released a video I've spent. I estimated 1,400 hours on like a shitload of writing, research, editing, what not. Two hour, 15 minute, third episode of my ongoing cyberpunk genre documentary. This one's focused on kind of wrapping up the 90s. Talk about so many things. I can't list them all here, but basically if you like the matrix, you know, existence, hacking culture, VR, the revolution of the 90s, strange days, virtuosity, virtual boy, cyberpunk themed music, Gadica and Flux, Batman Beyond, Marvel 29, we get it. You watch movies. Yeah, literally, I have like I'm probably covering like 30 to 40 different media in in this two hour plus video. So it's like it's basically like a documentary movie. So yeah, all sorts of things, books, comics, movies, TV shows, animation, anime, all that kind of stuff. So like if you'd like kind of cyberpunk genre stuff, I recommend starting at part one, but I kind of wrote them all that they're not completely undigestible if you watch them out of order. So that's what I just finished, I think last month. And now I'm doing something completely different, which I'm getting into covering in a RPG developer for the Super Nintendo in the 90s. So yeah, very, very different, but I need a break. I remember very little about existence, but I do remember the meat gun, the flash gun or whatever. Yeah, it was weird. Yeah, yeah, it's like it's like a Kronenberg nightmare where like VR is like little fleshy pods made from made from mutant frogs and like everybody uses them in biblical court in the back of their spine to connect. Is this a Hideo Kojima game? No, but it yeah, it's it's memorable. Most memorable for it's like biotechnology. It's like super creepy and weird. But yeah, very memorable for that aspect and for like simulation theory and stuff. But yeah, the last 20 minutes or so is basically all about the matrix, the original film, completely divorced from the sequels and everything that happened after the movie, just the movie. So if you like that, give it a watch. Otherwise I'm doing something completely different next time, but it'll be fun, I'm sure. Sweet. All righty. Meme repository, what are you up to? What's going on with you, Bre? Well, I've I've seemingly been dead to the world the last couple of months outside of a few shitposts on Twitter and that's because I've been deep, deep into... Well, it's actually been a lot of pre-production for this Mandalorian video that I've been working on for quite a bit now. I'm just putting some time aside to get it out. I don't know if you're making one of those. I'll have one out too eventually, I promise. Yeah. I'll be curious to watch yours. There's a lot, there's a shocking amount to talk about with that as you're probably discovering. Oh, God, yeah, like this started off as just talking about the issues with the Stormtrooper aim and it's blown up into like a 90 page script that not only, that kind of uses the empire as a focal point, but then starts to branch off into other criticisms of the show. So I'm gonna be splitting that one into three parts because I begin by going over like how the empire performs in the original trilogy and kind of setting like a benchmark there and then comparing and then in the next couple of parts, I'll probably go over season one, Stormtrooper stuff in the second part and then the monster that is season two, Stormtrooper shittery in season, in part three. And it's kind of- You're doing the whole both seasons? Yeah, but only focusing on the empire. I'm trying to try, that's how I'm focusing it. So I'm mainly focusing on that and then sneaking in other criticisms along the way and kind of using the empire as an example of a much larger problems with the show. So at the moment, I'm organizing my work station so I can get them out relatively quickly without them digging around for clips and everything. But yeah, it's gonna be an interesting one when it's finally all said and done. So I'm looking forward to that. So I'm hoping it's becoming increasingly not a possibility but I'm hoping I can get the first part out by the end of the month. But we will see, because I've got a little bit of it edited but it's gonna be touch and go if I do get it out but we'll see what happens. Yeah, that's what's going on now. Fair enough, sounds good. Mattle, what are you doing? That's me. I'm free. I don't know, I'm just sitting here chilling. Oh, you mean YouTube? Oh, right, yeah. No, I'm actually, I'm on vacation now which means I have a bunch of time to do stuff. Are you doing something or going someplace for your vacation? Or is it going to be a vacation? No, not at all. I'm having a vacation. Yeah, I'm just gonna be at home. Poland, maybe, France, Paris. Maybe very fast, Blitz, if you will. Anyway, yeah, I'm gonna start with some good old Gartik phone on the Twitch on Monday. Yeet. That's a bunch of the masses gonna be there. That should be good fun. Dranks, stuff, things, gonna be great. But also I started a weekly thing which is now called Metal's Forge which is just me talking about a movie or me and a guest talking about a movie. And that's actually on the other channel that I don't think a lot of people know about yet. I think I can grab a link here. Yeah, there you go. That's the link to the other channel. That's where I do the Metal's Forge. I had to skip this one this week because work was a piece of shit and I had to watch the Spando and had to prepare for that so I was busy with that shit. So yeah, next week I'm gonna do one. I'm not sure what I'm gonna watch yet. I haven't even decided if I should watch something good or bad or possibly good or bad. We'll see, but that's what I'm gonna do in the future. Hopefully weekly, that's the idea. And also gonna get some nice graphics soon hopefully. I don't know how long that's gonna take. But yeah, that's basically it. And getting back into the John Wick video now that I have a bunch of time in my hands. Sweet. Yes, Fringy and Rags, do you want to talk about anything? No, stuff will be out when it's out. I'm excited to get to work. I'm almost at the stage where I can make use of a bunch of new stuff and you'll be glad when it's out. And I'll be glad to be using them. I've got some new video coming out tomorrow. It's not end game, but it's something that I think is neat. I think you're gonna like it. New video tomorrow, go check it out. Sweet. Well, links to everybody you heard from tonight are in the description. And I hope everyone enjoyed. Thank you so much. We'll be dealing with the Superchats from this stream. We'll be the first now that we tackle on. Probably Wednesday. I can't remember what the plan right now is because I was thinking that originally we were gonna put out an episode on Wednesday because we were doing one that Saturday, but then I remembered Christmas as a thing. I often forget it as a nightmare creature. So now I'm like, wait, when should we put that? Because we probably shouldn't premiere an EFAB on Christmas Day. That would be bad for a lot of people to be able to watch it premiere, right? I won't be watching it. So I'm assuming that, so should it be Wednesday then? Probably. I think that'll work. It'll have to be the Christmas EFAB now. And if you guys were loyal to us tonight, oh boy. It's gonna be great. Stay tuned. Yeah. And we will get all the Superchats answered. So thank you for joining us. Thank you for hanging out and for the donations. And we'll see you next time, I suppose. Good night. Bye-bye. Good night, everybody.