 I'll request everyone else to kindly take their respective seats. As I mentioned we've a very last panel for the day Charing the session will be Ruheela main a senior editor exchange for media Joining us on this panel will be Mr. Kunal Singla business head Amar Ujwala web Mr. Ajay data managing director data group of industries Mr. Ritesh Malik director ADIF and founder Plaksha University Mr. Rohan Varma CEO and executive director map my India and Mr. Murugabal John K. Raman CEO Bharat matrimony who will be joining us virtually and With that over to you Ruheela to take the session forward. Thank you. Thank you, Sunchali Thanks everyone for joining us on this final panel The topic is very interesting Challenges before startups in the current digital ecosystem Possibilities and choices and we have a very eclectic panel that can touch upon the various phases of this conversation As we know India is the third largest startup ecosystem It's a thriving ecosystem of you know of startups Which are enabling the dream of India becoming a five trillion dollar economy is a centerpiece of that Goal to achieve those numbers. However Despite the government, you know measures to boost the startup for dip in terms of investments In terms of their profitability There are some some ways that they are suffering the love challenges So I want to broadly understand your perception of what those challenges are Starting with you Rohan, you know, how do you see those challenges? Good evening Honestly, I think it's it's very clear that the entrepreneurial talent in India especially in the digital space is Extremely high. I I see no No lack of capability amongst Indian entrepreneurs Compared to anybody in the world and in in terms of Indian products technology platforms, etc As as we have said multiple times the key challenge has been there because of monopolistic You know activities That have an anti-competitive activities that have been suppressing the Indian digital ecosystem And that's the key challenge of our times And I'm pleased that you know some things are changing with regards to that as you saw in the Supreme Court yesterday Ritesh, you have been in in the system for a long time If we look at say five years You know to the time that we are in How has the how have the challenges? Cropped up and what are the bigger challenges right now facing the startups? So on the positive note, I'll tell you a very interesting thing It took 125 years for Silicon Valley to become Silicon Valley in India. We've just taken we are actually leapfrogging the technology era, I think Joe Joe Joe was shut down our Bharat Bhagya Vidhata I think we are going to be one of the most Intensely powerful startup ecosystems in the world not only startup ecosystems, but a technology ecosystem Just imagine what we have done with UPI. Just imagine what we are going to be What we will do with the entire Aishman Bharat digital health mission We will be one of the most Technology savvy citizens program in the world. So the good part is for the first time the government is focusing now in the US My friends had got the their paper certificates of vaccines How are we are okay, so you thought our our our mobile payments infrastructure is way way ahead of even developed nations So I think we are standing on a very large opportunity today. We have 81 crore 810 million internet users in our country and We are going and we have 120 crores 1.2 billion internet connections by in the next two and a half years We will have 1 billion internet users and by the way in 2019 Lok Sabha elections Only 61 crore people voted and that is why technology regulation is important while for 61 crore voters we have an entire Framework of policy and regulation for this internet ecosystem. We don't unfortunately technology Regulation is always falling behind the actual technology innovation in my opinion We need to develop a special ministry The whole job of that ministry is to ensure East India company does not happen again to make sure that Indians are not taken for a ride to make sure that our data is our data to make sure We are just not a large digital democracy for other large big monopoly companies to come use generate revenue But also to make sure that our MSME does not get squeezed the margins of our startups don't get squeezed out of hundred unicorns Only 21 of them are profitable. This is a message and for this our government needs to come in Secure these founders and ensure that big tech monopoly is checked and controlled Very very intense points here Kunal from our media lens, you know if you look at media startups Is are these challenging sector sectoral specific or is it like pan sectors? Yeah, I think from the media perspective. I would rather actually look at two things one is There's a lot of I mean even while we are sitting here. We talk about startups We talk about the startup ecosystem, but Tamarujala, for example is a hyper local And where we have a lot of presence in tier two tier three No, that is where I think there's a lot of education which is still required where whatever the opportunities are there So in those tier two tier three cities, definitely, there's a requirement of awareness. What are the different ways to create startups build startups and scale startups while Obviously getting the right talent now from a media perspective I think there's a good amount of innovation that is still as a challenge I would say there's a lot of room for Identifying the right business sustainable model, right? So whether you're building a B2B or a B2C kind of a business I see identifying that value proposition. I mean for companies like us What is either in terms of the automation whether in terms of the? I would say the process improvement But if you look at I mean, there are some good companies like smart news Pluto TV, which have come out and but typically in the International domain, so how do we also do that in India with the cost that is sustainable? Because typically we are advertising led versus a subscription led Right, so it typically comes at a scale which also has a cost attached to it I think these are few challenges from a media perspective for sure Ajay, you're opening remarks about the broader challenges that we can that need to be addressed in the startup ecosystem. I Think you have used a very good word ecosystem and if we do not understand what ecosystem is all about We are not able to solve a problem So let me define ecosystem for all of us here to reduce the friction in every entity which can help and startups start up to grow a startup to sustain a Startup to exist in the country and and this is not happening here We are far from truth 88,000 startups in 1.3 billion is a very small number In comparison to any other country We need not to be very happy with that. We should be happy internally, but we have a large path to cover Imagine the percentage 1.3 billion population 88,000 startups It doesn't Help the system hence it is extremely important that all the entities work together to ensure whether it is mentoring whether it is education whether it is incubation centers whether it is Investment whether it is subsidies whether it is government support Whatever the things required for a startup the frictions in between things have to be have to be reduced and The knowledge about these availabilities of those resources have to be made very very simpler and easy It is a tough time for even a woman entrepreneur. I meet almost hundred entrepreneurs every month and the startups every month and They do not know about the possibilities and the Policies which are available for them. They need to hunt So our ecosystems have to be galvanized very very well so that they reaches to the right Entrepreneurs and excite more and more and more entrepreneurs to take that journey Right. I think the numbers don't do justice as you pointed out Mr. Janaki Raman who joins us virtually You heard the panelists before you How do you see from your sectoral side the bigger things that we need to overcome to make it a robust startup ecosystem According to me in person Yes, as I said by all the panel is the digital startups can significantly contribute to our country growth In order to achieve the government vision of becoming a 10 trillion dollar economy or 20 billion economy a digital startup can significantly Contribute that GDP look at even the you was top 10 companies are this their company That's a kind of opportunity what we have in India as well considering India is a very large opportunity today Indian startups are not only Limiting themselves to within India. They also looking at global opportunity I want to share about the the fundamentals chip that's happened in the last two decades or so Because we have been here for more than two decades We can we understand the entire journey of all the ecosystem your world over a period of two decades The Internet, you know 15 years ago was free and open Now anybody can set up by internet business just set up a dot com and Internet is not was not controlled by any one and large organization today. The shift has happened You all know that major traffic is happening through mobile app today Who is controlling mobile app the two company in the world are controlling the entire the mobile access Which is Google and I've been more than 90% turn traffic says happens through these two dominant players What are the implications of this one today? They are not simply a platform provider or access provider They are the platform as well as also players today Google not simply are in Android OIS They are also very subtle application beta map. It is no various application payment many things The challenge that when the platform becomes a player They are one interested because they are commercial entities that understand their primary Adjectives to they make money because they are the platform as well as player They start abusing the dominance and that's not good for Indian startup in the Indian consumer Some of the reasons you see a verdict really a stop is the fact that they're abusing the dominance the company like as what are the Implication or start up like that. What are the implications? One of the increasing cost of marketing today majority of the funding that is the start of going up the marketing And some day wonder how the internet marketing continue to move We nobody knows how it's moving up and then this company monetize the trademark of the Indian startup And that these are things that you've looked into also to ensure that you know start of the trademark Supporter this company not monetizing their trademark Also, when the platform to become a player we need to ensure that they're playing fairly. They're not abusing the dominance They're in a Google in-app building or Apple want to charge 30 percentage on the payment This is all clearly abusing our dominance. It's important that while the internet can significantly add to our economy growth Significantly value creators. It's right more important. The big techs are not abusing the dominance It comes in the way of a growth of startup and you know, and our All very very important things actually I think that's the biggest challenge. We have in front of us I will start with your rotation. Oh, since you uphold the promise of what the startup ecosystem would Do but I want to throw some numbers at you. What happened in 2022? funding fell by 40 percent big deals dropped by 45 percent Do you see a course correction happening and how soon would that happen? I think 2022 was the best best year for startups founders Investors all of them need to know that the core goal of building a startup eventually is to make money Goal of building a business is to make money You can you you can think about not making money for a specific period of time But eventually you need to make money So I think every startup ecosystem goes through these cycles and these cycles help Realign the priorities of founders the board and the investors also the the hype of going IPO has fallen down We are getting into that system and I'm telling you 2023 fag end onwards in my opinion August September onwards We are going to see a lot of froth go down and a lot of true cream come up We're going to see a lot of fundamental founders build and and I'm long on India I'm telling you we are we are going to be huge huge and this what has happened on for for us will be a very good lesson and also good companies will sustain this and Valuations will go up and down by the end of the day. We should not actually I disagree with the word unicorn Unicorn is a wrong word in private who is valuing you at what valuation is actually immaterial The question is at scale does the does the public value you or not? So we should not look at unicorns We should not look at only revenues or GMV's our goal should be true profitability not even a bit of profitability It should be true profitability throwing you you see the technology ecosystem in the US Facebook Google are throwing vomiting cash And and I think that that will happen with us eventually and on on that last note Which I would like to add here is again in circumventing everything on one focus And that is to truly develop technology regulation for India and for Indians for that We need to have a counterpart of what Europe has launched as the DMA, which is the digital media act And we need to control the big tech monopolies and eventually even our own technology companies We cannot have monopolization in technology because the challenge is Monopolization in a non-conventional business is very difficult. You will always see five to eleven players There will be there can be an oligopoly, but in technology attaining monopoly It's a it's a winner take all market at times example Android is there in 95% plus mobile phones smartphones in India So that is why we need to control and fair the word fair is very important until and unless we are fair We will not never be able to develop a full fully holistic ecosystem I like the point when you said the froth will settle because we used to chase valuations I think that's become a culture Obsolete culture it might be an obsolete culture Rohan your thoughts on this the culture of valuation chasing Valuations and not that impact that it creates. How do we get out of that? I? Mean I guess with Papma India I think we've walked a very different path 27 years of building a company product platform company Focus always on cash is king profitability scaling sustainably and so I think we we've walked this path of Fiscal prudence while doing technology innovation and with the belief that you know in the long term This is what will truly build a lasting Enterprise which has impact I mean Still I have respect for how Different founders have tried to have different parts towards Scaling their companies But as Ritesh said that you know you have to be very clear at least have a plan For a specific period of time that you're going to do an investment and hence you'll be burning cash With the objective of getting starting to get returns or or cash back from that investment and then execute to the best of your ability and That's how you know you get better and better at running your business. So You know perverse incentives vanity metrics You know those things are what happens in the frothy period, but in the long term, you know, everything kind of settles down. So I think I Echo so much with what they said that look it's back to kind of building businesses the the hard way the old school way With added advantage and excitement that look within the technology space We can really build exciting things That you know can can positively impact the world and also Help us compete with the biggest giants in the in the rest of the world. So good times ahead Good all how close are we to that course correction mode? See I think it'll take another That is how it should be I mean I think I agree with everyone here It's it's a good period for everyone where people all the fraud should settle down people should focus on not just getting talent at any cost Growth at any cost, right? So I didn't define. Okay. Now we are getting this is the revenue that we are looking at this is a profitability that you are looking at and Creating a sustainable model probably right so that I think is very important I mean, of course, there are some additional challenges which because of which that has happened whether it is inflation whether it is Russia Ukraine war. I mean there was a lot of supplier. The suppliers come down slightly. It's true, but I think it's a good Good for everyone for now Jay do we do you think we are in a celebratory mode all the time when it comes to startups the underbelly is Very dark is a different world altogether and we don't really look at it and we don't talk about it Actually, you stole my word celebration. I was about to start from that itself basically what Ritesh and Rohan and Kunal said is Is Pointing a very important point and if we draw the analogy from the word unicorn the thing which we celebrate people tend to follow If we follow if we celebrate the win of a cricket, but not the win of a hockey then the atmosphere of the Entire country starts following that game. This is natural instinct to happen. So as the festival so as the companies So if we invite only unicorn players to for example as a panel or to a speaker or to facilitate them with our word then it becomes a path for everybody to start dreaming that and We need to obviously look at very subjectively and very cautiously that when we are trying This is okay to be unicorn. This is okay to Salibate, but how much value to give is a very extremely this can't be just the power That's the bar for having somebody of the Parameter for becoming successful if you are unicorn then you have achieved that success answer is actually This is a flawed way to look at I would agree that And let me just take 30 more seconds to tell where do we stand today? And it is very extremely important and to understand in 1700 century India had 29% share of a GDP in the world in 1700 century in 1947 that percentage was three why Because we we were not allowed to celebrate success we were Controlled by policy and we were just stopped so that the policies start killing now if we need to change back to another 29% We need to Do everything what will support by the policy for the start of it. Sorry. I have to just make it faster Mr. Janaki Raman your quick comments on how can startups come out of this culture of Valuation chasing valuations How will it change anytime sooner? I think Valuations they need to look into What are the value propositions? How that's going to change our benefit consumer? I think that's what they should focus on and the valuation eventually happen. I Want to give the mic to Kunal. He has a quick question for all of you. Yes, please and we have another four minutes left Yes, yeah, I think yes I mean though we've been discussing recently about Profitability and growth right but that's a question which every single entrepreneur typically has and Once you're raising funds definitely at an early stage you want to look at growth versus profitability And we all know people numbers can be made in an excel and sure So what do you think is how to find the right balance and at what stage? for profitability versus growth Maybe your own you want to I mean, I guess both are both are aspirations when you're making a business plan How much growth and how much valuation how much growth how much profitability? so Been I think realistically when you go out to the market not for raising funds But when you go out to the market to to sell your products To customers you get a pulse for how much they'll be willing to pay and Then you see what it costs you to make or deliver that product And I think you get a sense of you know per unit. This is the profitability I could earn based on the context of what competitors out there, etc. Etc. And I think then is the question So if if the starting point is going to be negative unit economics I think this is some serious problem and so then you're living on hope that eventually so I would say those are Definitely not the business models that one should follow and in the other one when you know that you have some positive unit economics But they might be an initial and a fixed cost investment that you've got to make That's where I think you're the risk appetite or the calibration of you know Do I really want to swing for the fences or do I want to be able to build a business slightly slower? But with a lower risk lower reward, so I think over time you will find different risk takers in in entrepreneurs and In different times, they'll be rewarded differently So each entrepreneur will have their own business plan and that will decide the risk and reward of that British any quick comments, I think so the first thing which I always tell founders is that Never ever ever scale the wrong PMF the biggest challenge in our country when I see founders is they chase the wrong PMF If if if your PMF is not built. No, do not raise capital. This is what my submit There are very few businesses which are platform businesses which might need a lot of incumbent capital to start with but if You're your business 95% of the example my business. We are in a conventional co-working business We if we are not a vomiting cash. There's something massively wrong with me We have a very healthy a bit of 34 to 35 percent margin It's a conventional real estate business to sound sexy. We say that we are a tech company Typically, we are a real estate which is very glorified it and we know how to speak very decent These flashy words of total addressable market VC and all those things so people think we are smart We are typically a lala businessman and if we are not vomiting and 95% of businesses are like us platform businesses are very small and Focus completely focus on building the right PMF take a lot of time from MVP to PMF is the best journey for a startup Sorry. Yes, sorry. I think Ritesh has said very well There are it totally depends on the kind of business you are in if you are into a search If you are into large capital investment, you will have to go without profits for many years And that is where there is capital will come into picture if you are just a plain service oriented business Then you need a convex must fall in place the year one max year two and and that's that's it So the let's say if you are building a hotel for example, it can't be profitable on first year No matter which hotel it is right. You have a large capital He's building a university It's a it's it can't be profitable on day one. It has to be it has to sustain But that will be definitely profitable. That's the path which has to be taken. So startups have to see but I always It was the entrepreneurs who come that by just changing the numbers in actual sheet market dynamics do not change And that is where the problems happen to show that the this is the projection. I will do 100 crore I will do 500 crore it is and there is no path to of execution and the market do not change us that way One example and then I will end I said that I think you have very less projection. So just give me a second I will add a zero and Excellent sheet adding a zero does not change the market and this was my dip test to that entrepreneur on a startup So we have to be very careful that what we are doing how near to the reality we are talking and is it Really scalable the business Dimensions have changed the way business happening right now The biggest taxi owner over do not own any taxi biggest room owners do not any hotel Oh, yo biggest pharmacy company do not own any pharmacies like that and so forth and so forth So hence it is very critical that we need to invest money to build the market with the change But I think what it is has said very well from their perspective. Thank you Mr. Janaki Raman is here. Maybe we can take a closing comment from him and wrap up Yeah, thank you. I think I said by other panelist The profit is important. There are multiple phases of our initiative in growth. There's a growth phase There is a consolidation space. You have to understand which case you are in but there are business that requires large amount of capital But as long as you are the focus on profitability Uniteconomics, even it's not there. We have the clear plans of it in unique economic actually a property I think they're very important. The companies are focused on fundamentals and The focus on a cheap property. It's it's it's good Great. So it's a wrap on okay Just one last comment and and you may not want sorry VCs keep us jatoan was but sorry we see a founder So back to home. So many KC founder said Puchak have got revenue. It's not get the zero Menica do you or up to valuation to it is out there? Oh, it's not really a cheeback boy. He said sir. Meera revenue neena. So it's got my multiple Neelak satta the multiple of that can be infinity So don't don't fall into that trap. Do not take money from VCs make sure up. Kisse. They're here. Oh Fundamentally, they should be aligned. I think the levy see landscape has also changed and it's changing But thank you everyone for sharing your thoughts and it's a rapper of the long deliberations over to you, Sanjali Thank you very much for cheering the session and thank you to all our panellists Thank you for our panellists is join us virtually ladies and gentlemen round of applause and can I please request? Aqta suit regional account director e4m exchange for media to kindly present a memento to all present on stage Ladies and gentlemen the very last panel for the day. Let's put our hands together for them Thank you. Thank you