 Yes, I do love working on a dairy farm. I love that's not what I asked, Charlie. Why are you weaseling out of the question? I said, do you love taking your dairy cows to the slaughterhouse? I work on a dairy farm. A lot of the cows are on that dairy farm. I care for it, if they're my pets and you send them to the slaughterhouse. If it gets that point, yes, if we have to, we will. You're going to lose. I don't care about that. I don't care about panorama. That's totally different. That is no, it doesn't know it. It does not matter, mate. It does not matter because 86% of pigs, no matter what, are killed in gas chambers. You're telling me as a human what I want to go into a slaughterhouse. And I would say no. OK, do you think a cow wants to wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Does a cow want to? Well, a cow doesn't know what it wants. It just sort of cuts about a farmer, a farmer, Charlie. Oh, yeah. How you going, buddy? I'm good. How are you? Yeah, good, mate. Where are you from? I'm from from sort of Burmy and Worcestershire way in England. Oh, really? What made you jump on in the live stream? You just popped up to be fair. I don't know. You've done it a few times. I just popped up my few page and I I I find it very interesting. The what you say and sort of obviously, I don't agree with the lots of what stuff you say because I'm a farmer and you're against it. So well, I'm I'm against raising animals to kill them. For food. Yeah, well, I mean, I see your point with that. But realistically, you're not you make it out like they're living really horrible lives and they're and they're being tortured every day and all that sort of stuff. But realistically, they're not. And wait a second before you continue. When I say that, I'm actually talking about the majority of farming. Do you support the majority of farming? Of course, I'm a farmer. But if you OK, OK, one sec, one sec. I'll let you I'll let you finish as well. But you know, the majority of farming is actually factory farming, statistically. So you support factory farming. No, this is what I mean. I am. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. No, you now you're saying no. So you said I asked you if you support the majority of farming. Let me explain myself. No, well, OK, OK, this is just what happened. And then I'll let you go. Right. I asked you if you support the majority of farming. You said, yes, of course, I'm a farmer. I said, did you know the majority of farming is factory farming, statistically? And do you support factory farming? And you said no. So which one is it? Well, when you look at majority of farming, I'm not sure about the statistics in the US. I'll be completely honest. I'm not sure what it's like in the US. But for UK, let's talk UK. A lot of most farmers. I don't agree with you on it. I agree with you on that. Charlie, let's talk the UK. What is the majority of farming in the UK, factory farming? No. But what would you class as factory farming? Because what you class as factory farming is different from what I class as factory farming. Well, the intensive indoor units that basically the animals have kept in intensive indoor units for some or most or all of their life. But that sometimes can be better for them because they are actually... No, no, no. OK, we'll get into that. Charlie, we will get into that. But do you disagree that the majority of animals in the UK are factory farmed? I disagree with that. Yeah, they're not. Wow, and you're a farmer? Brother. It's 85% of land animals in the UK are factory farmed. 85%. Why would we not? Because at the end of the day, you all guys always talk about, you know? No, no, no, bro, I'm telling you. I'm telling you, the vast majority of animals in the UK are factory farmed. I think you're farmed. You told me you don't support factory farming, but then you told me you support the majority of animals. Just look, you're a farmer. What animals do you farm, Charlie? I'm a dairy farmer. You're a dairy farmer. OK, you do dairy farming. OK. Dairy being farmer. Do you represent chicken farming and pig farming, too? Are you going to be their spokesperson? I know, I don't. But what I know, I know a lot of chicken farmers. I know pig farmers and they are normal people. They look after their animals. They care for their animals. Oh, really? They're compassionate. Oh, really? Compassionate. Do you know that? OK, so when you talk about pig and chicken farming, you know over 90% of those both. Over 90% of, I think it's 95% of pigs. Over 95% of chickens. They're all factory farmed. Well, because it's better. No, factory, they're free range. They live in sheds. And what it is, is they live in sheds. They're given the opportunity to go outside. They are. I can tell you now, I've been to it. OK, so pigs. So OK, now let's go. Let's go. Peaks are given the opportunity to go outside, are they, in red tractor farms? I've seen. Oh, well, it's sort of red. Do you know who red tractor are? Yeah, red tractor. OK, let's go. Red tractor, Charlie knows red tractor. So are you telling me that red tractor allow their pigs in their factory farms to go outside when they want? Well, I don't know the majority of pig farmers, but I know the ones that I know. Yeah, they do. Well, then why are you talking like you're talking for the majority, dude? I'm talking when I say animals are factory farmed. I don't know enough about pig and poultry. Well, you don't. And that's clear because I study this every single day. But Charlie, you're a dairy farmer. There is, you study other vegan propaganda and believe their statistics. You don't. These are FAO statistics from the government. FAO from what government? British government. These are government stats. What are you talking about vegan propaganda, dude? These are government statistics. I don't know. Listen, I don't know enough about pig and poultry. I apologize. You don't know enough about fact. If you don't think the majority of animals are factory farmed in the UK. I don't know what dairy and beef are. Well, then why don't you just speak for dairy and shut up about the rest because you don't know what you're talking about. I don't know what dairy and beef are. You said that pig farmers are compassionate. Most pig farmers are red tractor, right? So 85% of farms, pig farms are red tractor approved. They approved, do you know what farrowing crates are? No, what's sorry? Do you know what farrowing crates are? Yeah, where they give birth and they're... In a cage. Pardon? In a cage. A farrowing crate. And they bite the bars and that. Have you been in a farrowing shed? How aggressive a pig can be to their piglets? It's like the same thing. Are you saying they're in a cage because they're aggressive? That's why we take the cars away. All right, so what about on free-range farms that you just talked about? Well, if they're so aggressive, why do they let them free in free-range farms? They're not with humans, they're not with... No, no, no, no, wait a second. Wait a second. You said they're allowed free in free-range farms. If they're so aggressive, why do they even allow them in free-range farms? Why don't they just keep in those cages so they can't kill their piglets? They don't keep them in there all the time, do they? Well, listen, bro, that's another question. All right, that's another... Do they keep them there all the time? No, it's about five weeks at a time while they're farrowing their young, right? And they get put in a week before when they're just about to give birth. But what I'm saying is 60% of cows are in those farrowing crates. And you tell me, farmers are compassionate. And have you ever been in a farrowing shed? Have you ever been in a farrowing shed? I've been in pig shed, but I've never seen them. I've not seen them being used for that. Okay, that's fine. You're a farmer and you've never been in a farrowing shed. This is the problem with farmers that, like you, Charlie... Exactly, so you can't speak... I'm not a pig and poultry farmer. Okay, well, then this is the problem, Charlie. People that are on TikTok, right? I see farmers all the time. I'm not saying just you, but this happens a lot. Farmers have a certain farm at their house, right? Or wherever you live. And then they start speaking for all farmers and start propagating nonsense, right? When I've gone into these farms, I've got a bunch, I know a bunch of people who've investigated these farms for years and exposed Red Tractor farms. And we don't just repeat vegan propaganda. We look at the stats. The stats don't lie. You've done not one second of research on this. You've come in as a farmer, started speaking for all farmers that we're all compassionate. And then you said you support the majority of farming in the UK. The majority of the farming statistically is by and large factory farming, right? And then you're against factory farming. So we can talk about your farm as well, but I just want you to agree that you're actually against most of factory farming. Most of farming in the UK, which is by virtue factory farming. I can't hear you, but speak up, bro. You're fine. Sorry about that, yeah. That's all right. If you look at factory farming and what people think about it, you know, like factory farms and factory farms are very similar. But factory farming is very wide. It's used very freely. The word factory farm is used very freely, in my opinion. And you've actually got to look at the farm. And the reason why, you know, these big, like I said, I don't know enough about pig and poultry to argue with you. I know a bit. I don't know enough to argue. But I know enough about Dairy and Bee to argue with you all night long about Dairy and Bee. Okay. Well, we can talk about Dairy and Bee, but that represents a small percentage of the animals farmed in the UK. A lot of far, not majority, but a lot of farming in the UK. Dairy and Bee. It's a minority of farms. No, no, no, I'm sorry. I didn't mean majority, but it's a lot of the farming in the UK is Dairy, Bee. It's a very mixed country. I'm saying most of the animals that are killed, most of the animals that are slaughtered in the UK, which animal is it? Like the majority of animals. Which species of animal is it? I would guess bee. No, the majority of animals that are killed are chickens. I think chickens. Are chickens, bro? Yeah. Chickens, there are, they are, you get less meat often, don't you? Cause they're smaller. I said, I said, I didn't ask you for the weight of meat. I asked you for the number of animals. The majority of the animals are killed in the UK. So single animals, which animals? Well, it's chickens. Okay. And it's a billion chickens. It's a billion chickens a year in the UK. Okay. So what you're basically saying there is, is not, that's not, that, yeah, we kill a billion chickens a year. Yeah. And I'm saying that, that over 95% of those are factory farmed in big indoor intensive units. Yeah. Intensive and factory. No, when I say intensive, I mean indoor. Intensive and factory are very different. Why are they different? Intensive is, is you are, you have them inside, but they're, but you have them inside because they are, they're probably better off welfare wise because you can feed them, you can keep an eye on them all the time. You can make sure that if there's any disease, if they're outside, you're not going to catch it straight away. So how is that different to factory farming? How? How was intensive farming different to factory farming? I'm just using the same, I'm just interchanging those things. It's conditions and the conditions in a high intensity unit are above and beyond and I've, you know, they are, the conditions have to be because they're inside all the time. So you're saying the conditions are much better inside an intensive farm? An intensive farm, they would have to be more hot on diseases, more hot on because they're inside, they're close together all the time. So you're saying the welfare is better for the animals inside of an indoor? No, I'm welfare on every farm in the UK where there's intensive, where there's free range is not every farm, obviously, because there are the bad ones. As you know, I don't know if you saw the BBC film about dairy farming, but you know. Yeah, but look, are you talking, when you say indoor farms are better, are you talking about dairy? Cause I'm talking about the billion chickens that are slaughtered first, but we can go move on to dairy. I don't know enough about pig and poultry. Okay, cause I just, I followed on from, you started saying, like I said, billion chickens are slaughtered, I said over 95% of them are factory farmed, right? And then you started saying about intensive farms are good. I was talking about indoor intensive, like factory chicken farms. And then, okay, we can, but we can, you can just agree that you don't know anything about pigs and chickens, which are. I don't know anything. I don't know enough to have this argument. I don't know enough statistics on that. I don't know. I haven't gotten to enough chicken shed to vary my view. The ones I've seen and the ones I've been to are free range. And how many animals were, okay. So if you're free range, like chickens that people like meat chickens, right? Is that what you're talking about? Yeah. Well, free range in general is, that's what it means it's outdoors. Yeah. Are you talking about an egg farm? Well, there's two, there's either egg farms or chicken. Yeah, you get broiler sheds or. Okay. And the most of the broiler sheds, you've seen a free range. Both types I've seen. There's, there are a few that free range. There's, you know, it majority of it, I know that I know of is the, they give me the opportunity to go outside. Are you talking about an egg farm or a free range chicken broiler farm? An egg farm or a free range broiler farm? Like I said, I'm not being enough to enough farms, but I've never, I've not. I'm just asking you for your personal experience. What have you personally experienced? The free range egg farm or a free range broiler farm? Well, where I used to work, obviously, I was dairy up there, but there was a three or four free range egg farms up there. That's different, isn't it? Like I said, like a broiler shed, but. That's different to broilers, isn't it? Yeah, I've not, I've not as of yet seen a broiler shed in real life. Okay. And you think free range egg farms are like the business? Well, what do you mean by the business? It's free range. Like really good? Do you think they're really good? Really good welfare? It depends on, oh, welfare wise, yeah. Free range is good. The thing is what you've got to remember is with free range, it doesn't necessarily mean they are given the opportunity to go outside all the time, but a lot of them, a lot of the chickens prefer to be inside. Oh, really? Because that's where they get fed. That's where they, you know, they prefer that. I mean, I'm not sure. They prefer to be inside. But, pardon? They prefer to be inside? Yeah, majority of them, if you look at it, they're given the opportunity to go outside. The doors are open, they can go outside, they can walk around freely, the majority you're saying now. All right, so do you know, like on a free range, in the free range egg barn, you can leave the doors open, it doesn't mean all the chickens are gonna be able to have access. Yeah? Well, surely that means that they will be if the doors are open. Nah, man, like, if you think of 16,000 birds in a barn, they have something like a pecking order, you know, and like a lot of the weaker birds can't even get through the doors. A lot of birds guard the doors, they don't even get access. The doors are there, that's right, that's correct. But whether or not they get to go outside, different story. But we can just operate off the assumption they do, which they don't, actually. You're saying they like to stay indoors, well, not necessarily. Birds like to be out in the grass and scratching and doing all their natural behaviors and stuff, and I don't think, I think they're just conditioned to be in this inside unit. But, you know, when they're laying egg after egg after egg, how long do you think they can keep that up before they just start, you know, chickens, they lay an egg a day, or around an egg a day in the industry, yeah? Okay, well, yeah, I think so. Like I said, I would rather talk about dairy and beef because that's what I know about. Well, let's just assume you don't know anything about, enough about free range eggs to have a debate with me on that topic. So I guess you would have to... Get a chicken farm and a pig farm on here, they will talk to you about that. Okay, yeah, that's fine, that's fine. Okay, so what I'm gonna say is that you don't know enough about the industry. I obviously know more than you about the industry, so they are, I think I'll just go... Yeah, you know more than me, but I'm not saying it's... Okay, well then, it doesn't really... You need to get a chicken and pig farm on here. You're talking to a dairy and beef farm about chickens. Yeah, but okay, the only reason I'm pressing you on it, Charlie, is because you jump in here to defend farming as a whole, and I think that's a big mistake on your part because you don't know enough about it and you're defending something and you don't even know what you're defending. I'm defending what I've seen. I don't get a lot of... It's what I find on... Okay, well that's fine, what you've seen. I don't really give a shit about what you've seen, dude. I care about what is statistically relevant. No, not as seen as in what I've seen on TikTok and whatnot. I get a lot of the things pop up, the few page, they obviously, they look at what you look at. Because I'm dairy and beef, I get a lot of the dairy and beef. Oh my God. You guys talk about dairy and beef, I don't get a lot about the chickens. It wasn't not working. So I would rather talk about dairy. I think I've just seen a comment about someone wants to talk about dairy and beef. If that's all right, I'll go with dairy and beef. Yeah, we can talk about dairy, but I'm just looking for a concession, right? Because you come in here and you try to defend the... We can go to dairy, I'm happy to talk about dairy and beef, right? But I'm looking for... You come in here and started defending the whole of animal agriculture as a farmer, because I get where it comes from. You're defensive, you're a farmer and you think, oh wait, he's saying all this shit, I don't agree with it. You don't know enough about the industry, right? To defend the entire industry. No, no, you're generalizing that. I don't know enough about the pig and poultry industry. Yeah, but you only know about dairy and beef. So you don't know about turkey farming. You don't know about the egg industry. You don't know about broiler chickens. You don't know about duck industry. You don't know about goat milk. You don't know about lambs. I know about sheep as well. Okay, you know about sheep. Okay, so you know about all those grass-roaming animals, but you don't know about... You know, and this is interesting, actually. Most farmers don't actually think about factory farming. I think what you're doing here is you're avoiding dairy and beef. No, no, no, what do you mean? I do campaigns on them. And I think you're going over and going over. I think we put that to the side and we'll talk about dairy and beef. Okay, yeah, but you know why I'm talking about those other industries, because they make up the majority of factory farming in this country. And when I talk about factory farming, I'm talking about the majority of... Okay, so you want to talk about... You want to talk about the two, three, four, five percent over here, the free-range dairy in that. I'm talking about what the majority... No, no, I'm talking about... Well, there are also... There's a lot of dairy farms in the U.S. And I know there's a lot of beef farms. And I know that there are... I'm just saying that the majority of factory-farmed animals are chickens a billion a year in the U.K. Yeah, so when I speak... There's a lot of dairy, there's a lot of beef, there's a lot of beef. Okay, so all I was doing, Charlie, is talking about the majority of farming in the U.K. Okay, that's all I was doing. So if you think that's dishonest, that's all right. I don't know the stats, but I can tell you now that there is a lot of dairy, a lot of beef, and a lot of sheep. Okay, well, the stats are it's around... It's around 85% of animals in the U.K. factory-farmed. I don't want to say I'm platinizing. Do you know whales, you know, part of the U.K.? Yeah, right, whales is mainly... There's a lot, a lot of sheep in there. And there's a lot of dairy and a lot of beef. And even in England, there's a lot of arable as well, obviously. There's a lot of beef, a lot of dairy. There are chicken and pig sheds, don't get me wrong. You know, there's... There's heaps of chicken and pig sheds, brother, yeah. Yeah, but okay. Okay, let's talk about then the dairy industry, if you like. Yeah. Okay, so where would you like to start with your... Okay, let's just start here. I think that the dairy industry... I have a really far question at me about the dairy industry that one of your worries possibly, and I'll try and tell you from a farmer's point of view. Well, are you going to tell me from your farmer's point of view? You're going to tell me what is statistically relevant in the dairy industry? I'm going to speak for the majority of the industry. You're going to speak for the entire dairy industry? Pardon? Are you going to speak for the entire dairy industry? Well, I know a majority of the dairy industry is free range and there's a lot of dairy farmers. I know plenty dairy farmers. I've been to their farms. Yeah, I know. I'm just talking about... They're a very similar mindset. Yeah, yeah, because when we're debating about this, I would like to keep it on what is relevant in the dairy industry for the majority. I don't want to hear, well, my friend lets a calf stay with their mum. Okay, you ask me a question, what? I'm just, what I'm trying to say, Charlie, is I'm not looking for... We'll cut to chase. We'll start when they're babies, right? Yeah, okay, okay. I don't want to hear about anecdotes. That's all I'm saying. I don't want to hear about anecdotes. You know what, a personal story of someone? I want to hear about what is relevant. I'm talking about certain things. Okay, that's cool. You know, so the calves, you know, if you're a beef suckler herd and you've got a cow breed that is, you know, you've got a cow. It's not even about breeds. It's about the cow, the single cow. If you know a cow's going to be good to its calf, in dairy, you take the cow away because dairy cows, from what I've seen and from what I know and from what a lot of people have said online and all that sort of stuff. I've, you know, I've personally seen, I'm not saying this is not, I'm just, I've personally seen dairy cows trample their own calves. You know, they almost don't want to, you don't want to have anything to do with them. And... So you've seen that, have you? And it's not nice. You know, it's not nice to see it. So you've seen the cow, just they've had their calf and then they just trample all over them and they don't care? Well, a lot, if it's a first-time mother, you know, they don't know what they're doing and we take them away because one, it means, and obviously like humans, colostrum is the most important thing to give a calf within the first six hours of life. And you can... We can talk about colostrum. We can talk about colostrum and I know that the calves are given the colostrum from the mother. The calves don't, you know, sometimes calves, I know it's an instinct, but a lot of the time they don't know how to suck, like they can't find the teeth or whatever. So... Oh, that's fine. We give them that colostrum and we... Oh, that's great. That's great. To make sure they've drunk. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then what happens to the calf? After you give them the colostrum? Do a lot of the time, so... Pardon? What happens? So you remove the colostrum, you remove the calf? Yeah. And then you put them in isolation? You get the colostrum? So they'll either go into a warming pan for a few hours to dry off and all that sort of stuff, or they'll go straight into a calf shed, which has got other calves in and they can, you know, live in the calf shed with enough room, they've got loads of space. You know, you can run around. Yeah, they're only little animals, at that point, aren't they? So you're saying that's... That's just what all dairy farmers do. They put them in a calf shed with other calves, where they've got loads of space. You've just said, like, you know, speak and drop. Every dairy farm has a different system. And so you can't speak on the whole industry. But there are reasons why. Well, let's talk about the bigger dairy farms as well, because like, I just want you to just tell me what those other systems look like. Well, there's a few systems. You either, if it's a big system... No, no, no. No, no, no, no. Dairy calves, female dairy calves. Female dairy calves are... We put them in with other dairy calves. No, I'm not saying you. I'm asking you what the other big dairy farms do when they remove female calves from their mothers. Well, as I said, there's a few different systems that a farm might follow. That's one of them, where they're taken away. They'll put them in. Well, tell me the other. So the other ones are... The other ones, you leave them on the man to drink the colostrum, as I say. And then as they start to get bigger, they will start to hurt them up because they're getting bigger. And, you know, they're still wanting milk. And they can't, you know, that we would then take them away. It varies in age, but we'll take them away and we'll start to feed them either milk, or still from the tank. You're avoiding this really badly, eh, bro? This is... Bro, you are... Charlie, you are avoiding this really badly, eh? What? Don't you know what calf hutches are? A calf hutch. Don't you know what a calf hutch is? Well, yeah. So when they live outside on grass, we put a hutch out there for them so if it rains, they don't get wet, they don't get cold. We put straw in there for them. They can stay warm. They can stay dry. What is a calf hutch? It's a... What is a calf hutch? What's a hutch? It's an enclosed space. It's a little enclosed, like, little cage thing you put them in, eh? Which is on the edge of a field or a paddock if they're outside. Well, it's an enclosed... It's an enclosed cage that the calves go in and that's where they're fed. This is, well, very funny the way you do this because you try and trap people into it. I've just said a hutch is bought to put in a field when they're outside. They don't get cold, they don't get wet. If it starts to rain, they don't get, you know, they stay dry, they stay warm. It's on the edge of a paddock or a bit of land or whatever. So they have... So they can't, they literally... So what you're saying is they can move out of the hutch whenever they want, yeah? If it's outside, majority of the time, yeah, they'll be on the edge. Majority of the time they can move out of their hutches, yeah? Is that what you're saying? Well, yeah, I would say that they could. That's a load of nonsense, brother. That is a load of absolute nonsense. Nonsense, mate. You think you speak for the majority of... Who's uploaded this video? What is this? This is me in it. This is me in a dairy farm. Yeah, well... This is me in a dairy farm in England. In England. What are you talking about? Enclosed, it's outside. They've got the hutch behind them. Oh, can they get out of there? Can they? Can they get out of there whenever they want? No, but you were talking about just the hutch. Oh, well, then what are you on about? You just said they can get out whenever they want. As I said, there's a better area out there. Come on, buddy. Come on. Mate, come on, mate. You think I'm stupid? You're acting like I'm stupid. No, no, no, no. What you... You said the hutch, they can get out of the hutch. So they remove the calves. They put them in a calf hutch. The females, they remove the calves. They put them in a calf hutch for most of the time for larger dairies. Yeah? They put them in calf hutches. And they feed them what? A formula? They feed them milk. You're saying they don't... Okay, so what's your next claim? They don't feed cows a replacement formula? They don't feed calves. They might feed them replacement powder, but sometimes up because you can get higher proteins from those. Okay, well, I'm just asking you if they do and you keep avoiding it and saying they feed them the milk from the mom. Like I said, it depends on the farm. Yeah, well, I'm not talking about... I'm talking about what is most common, right? But we can talk about those little tiny backyard farms like your house. Obviously, I'm not talking about just me, but just the farm guy work. Okay, okay. So why don't they leave the calf with the mama? Pardon? Why don't they leave the calf with the mother? Well, I was just saying... Are you sticking with they trample them? A lot of the time that we remove them because we don't want the calves to get hurt, number one, because the cows, you know, they might be gentle creatures and, you know, everyone thinks they're... So you're saying that... If they turn on a calf, they can kill it. They don't know. They don't. They rarely do. It would be an accident. Cows are maternal animals. Pardon? Cows are maternal animals. That calf has been in their stomach for nine months. But realistically, when you go and look at it, a lot of the cows don't let the calves suck. Oh, really? Yeah, the ones I've seen anyway. And I know, you know, we said earlier, oh, we don't want anecdotes, whatever. But the ones I've seen... Are you talking about their first calf? Are you talking about their first calf? They don't let it suck? Well, it can vary. As I said, you know, we speak about the industry as if it's black and white. So you're saying a mother, a mother mammal, doesn't know how to nurture their own young, but it's only in the dairy industry. Every other mother that has young... Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. So every other animal, right, that's a mammal, knows how to nurture their young. But you're saying only in the dairy industry... No, no, no, no. You have to look after these calves so much. Sometimes we do leave the calves on the cows. Yeah, but I'm not talking about you, Charlie. You're speaking for the dairy industry. What is most common practice in the dairy industry in the UK? Taking the calves... Exactly. And what I'm most interested in is your justification for it, which is hilarious, which is that you're doing it for the animals... It's not hilarious. It is hilarious. It is hilarious because what you haven't mentioned is that it's not financially, like, advantageous to let a calf drink as much milk from the mother as they want when you've got to milk that cow twice, three times a day. If we're talking financials, okay? I'm talking that you can't let the calf take the milk that you have to sell. If you bought a financial, now we're gonna talk about it because... Yeah. Well, yeah, I'm talking about the financial reason for this industry to begin with. The powder that we buy to replace this milk, so we feed the powder, is generally, if you look at per litre, more expensive than milk in itself. So why would we... That's making us a loss. So, wait a second. You're saying all these dairy farmers out there are actually in the loss, so they're doing it for the love? There is very little money in farming generally. We all do it for the love of the farm. Are you trying to tell me that dairy farmers actually do this because they care about animals? So let me get this straight. All right, no, no, Charlie. Charlie, I've just got to get this straight and then I'll let you talk. I just got to get this straight, so I know what you're saying. That you obviously harvest semen from bulls by jacking them off. You inject that semen into the vagina of a cow, right? And they do this on a mass scale. This is the most predominant method, right? They do that, so they get in calf, they take the calves away, they milk the mother, they give the calf a replacer, they send the bull calves off to God knows where, veal, beef, whatever. Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay. You don't kill bull calves, and it doesn't happen. It doesn't happen. It doesn't happen, but anyway, but anyway, let me finish my little story here. So you do all of this, right? You take the milk out of them, you sell the milk, right? You do that three, four times, four cycles, and then when she's had her four cycles, she doesn't calf anymore. She's not gonna be easy to inseminate, I don't know, she doesn't calf. You send it to the slaughterhouse to be chopped up for me, all right? You do all of this because you actually care about cows. Okay, well, are you gonna let me, I'll just speak now. Yeah, now I just wanna know, you do all of this because you care about cows. That's all I wanna know. So we give birth, the cows give birth because as we know, everyone knows you can't have milk unless something's in, it's like a human. They can't produce milk unless they're in milk. I'm just asking, you didn't answer my question, bro. I just said, do you do all of that? Does the dairy industry, right? Cause you're speaking for the dairy industry. Does the dairy industry do all of what I just said because they care about cows? Well, no, because what you've done there is ask a question that means, that's not a black and white question. That's not a yes or no question. I asked you this and you said yes before. You just said this, dude. You just said that we do it because we care about cows. You've worded it in a way that... I've just worded the process. I've worded the process. No, what you've done is you've worded it in a way that fits your... Did dairy farmers most predominantly AI cows? Because it's safer, yeah. I don't care what justification you use. So that part of the process was right. Okay, that part of the process was right. That was accurate. Do bull calves go to veal or beef? Or be killed, depending on the farm? Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't. I'm just saying, do these three things happen depending on the farm? Listen, there is an industry for veal. You are a weasel, dude. You're weaseling. You're a weasel. Don't weasel out of questions. I'm just saying, do these three things happen depending on the farm? Put your cock away. Hang on, sorry, it's one of my friends. Sorry, what was your question? I'm just saying. Do calves either get to bull calves? If your friend keeps going, I'm going to hang up on you. If your friend keeps going, I'm going to hang up on you. You broke up then, I couldn't hear what you said. I said, if your friend keeps going, I'm going to hang up on you. No, no, he's not going in now. It's time to bugger off. All right, so three things happen to bull calves depending on the farm. I'm just asking you if this is true. They either get sent off to the veal, they go for beef, or they get killed. One of those three things, I'm not saying the killing always happens, the veal always happens, or the beef always happens. I'm saying it's one of those outcomes for bull calves in the UK. Yes or no? They either go for veal, they go for beef, or they get killed. I'm just trying to ask you if one of those outcomes, either get sent off a veal, they get raised to be either beef or sometimes farmers kill them on the farm. No, because you have to have a license to kill on farm. It doesn't matter what if they got a license, dude. I'm just saying, does that outcome ever happen? We've got footage of it, dude, you trippin'. We've got footage of it. It would be better if you were honest. You're trying so hard to defend dairy that you just don't admit that bull calves are killed. I know it's being outlawed by the end of this year. Why was that so hard, bro? This is why you're dishonest. What you're doing is you're trying to get me to say something. I know, I'm asking you if one of those three calf outcomes happen, right? Because what I did there is I just explained dairy. I just explained the process of dairy. Yeah, I did. You explained it very bad. I just explained the process, dude. What do they do? Explain the truth? You haven't denied any of this happens yet? You make it sound better. We do it for our own good. We're doing all this because we care about cows. Bro, dairy industry does it for money. Dairy industry does this for money. Period. But what's the point of... Listen, I get that it does happen. They send them off the field. But if you're talking about money... I'm just saying, dude, you tried to tell me with a straight face sitting there that dairy industry does this to cows because they care about them. Are you okay? Who cares about someone so much that they exploit them, take their kids away from them and kill them all. You're using them for your own gain. You're using them for your own gain. I don't care. The people who worked at our switch had a job. It's a horrible job. I'm just saying you don't need to do that job. No, I haven't. No, too bad things. What I'm trying to say is just because something is a... Okay, if you can't take an analogy, I'm saying just because something is a job, that doesn't morally justify it. People who worked at our switch just had a job. You could have a horrible, horrible job and just because it's a job, it doesn't morally justify it. You know what I mean? I get your theory, but realistically, dairy... It's not... We're not farmers and not like the officers at Auschwitz. I'm not saying... Bro, I was making a job analogy. You said it's a job. I was talking about morality. Excuse me, mate. Okay, we can go to their lives, right? We can go to their lives, but you told me that dairy farmers do this because they care about the cows. That's what you tried to tell me. And they love the job. Yeah, a lot of the time... There's a lot of money in it. Yeah, bro, but like... You tried to tell me that's... You tried to make that case for the dairy industry, actually. So I've got this all... This gets saved to TikTok. I can just go back and listen to what you said. You then said it's a job, so that's why you do it. It's a job. A job is where you work for money. Okay, yeah. We don't get paid that much as farmers. Then do another job, dude? No, because we love the job. You love the job that much? Do you love sending your dairy cows to the slaughterhouse? Do you love that part of the job? Well, there's... There's parts of the job that... There's no parts that I don't... I hate, but there's parts of the job that I look at, and I think I do... They don't get... Yeah, I'm going to say I love the job as a whole. I do love working on a dairy farm. I love... That's not what I asked, Charlie. Why are you weaseling out of the question? I said, do you love taking your dairy cows to the slaughterhouse? Well, they... I think when they finish their... lactation cycle and stuff like that... Do you know where they go? I know where they go. 50% of the beef comes from dairy cows in this country. I'm saying, do you love that part of the job? Do you love the fact that dairy farmers all over the world send their... their beloved dairy cows that they love so much to a slaughterhouse? We send them off at the end of life to go to beef, yeah. End of life? Oh, really? End of life? Yeah. How long does a cow live? Well, it can vary on breed to breed on... God, come on. You don't like answering questions, do you, mate? How long generally does a cow live? Just give me a ballpark. You know so much about cows? It's probably... They can live anywhere from... They can live up to sort of 15 years. Even on a dairy farm. Look, bro, I'm just saying like generally a cow lives up to... is it 20 to 25 years? If they are... If they're not being exploited every day for their milk and having the calves taken from them, you know, yeah, maybe they live longer. No, I don't know. 20 is an extreme. I think around 15... 15 to 17. Maybe you've only had experiences from cows that are constantly in calf or preg... or being milked, you know, and maybe their lifespan is a little bit less. But what age do you send your cows off to be slaughtered? I want to know. What age do you send your cows to be slaughtered, Charlie? Has he gone? Charlie? Uh-huh, he didn't run. Okay, well, there we go. Let me try to accept him again. Charlie, accept. I thought you ran, Charlie. I thought you ran away, mate. I was getting very... I was pretty disappointed, actually. But the real... I know I just lost connection. The Wi-Fi run needs absolute shit. Okay, okay. You lost connection, but are you going to answer the question? What was your question again, sorry? You remember, can't you? I actually can't. What was it? Oh, that's convenient. I said, what age do you send your cows... I don't think I heard it. At what age do you send your cows off to be slaughtered? What age? The age they go off can vary. Yeah, okay. Okay, generally, just give me a ballpark. Well, as I said, it's such a variety. You know, above 10 years old, a lot of them. You know, 10 to 15. But obviously, if they're... And this isn't... I sound nice, but if they're ill and they're sick, then we'd send them off earlier because that's realistically the kind of thing to do. They're sick. Okay, well, wait a second. What type of... What do you mean, sick? So, you know, they can catch pneumonia. You know, we can't help that if they touch it. I really... You know, we don't help... How often do they get TB these days, dude? Well, it can vary because often you get TB, it's vulnerable zone. So, you know... And what about mastitis and that? Mastitis, that just comes about. That's just from hygiene. That can be old age. That can be anything. And do you cull them because of mastitis? It just develops. Do you cull them because of mastitis? No. So, with mastitis, it can be treated. We give them antibiotics. Their milk does not go into the tank and they're on antibiotics. Okay. Do you think that they cull dairy cows because of mastitis in the dairy industry in the UK? I'm curious if you know. They can get very, very sick from that. Okay. And do you know a percentage of... Sweetie, where's that data from the AHDB? I think it's about 20% of cows are culled because of mastitis. Yeah, the reasons for culling. So, what was that percentage? I think it's over 20% of the reason for cull in the dairy herd is mastitis. I think what that will be... Well, this is from the AHDB, mate. So, that's... Do you know who the AHDB are? AHDB, yeah, they are the... Yeah, they do... They're farmers. Yeah, so it's not vegan propaganda, brah. It's not vegan propaganda. So, where is the... And to be honest, if you do... Okay. Here we go. Let me have a look here. The cattle welfare report. It stops the spread of mastitis in the herd. So, where's the reason for cull here? But anyways... Can you find it for me? So, basically, do you think... Do you know, Charlie, how you're speaking for most of the dairy industry, defending the dairy industry in the UK? I'm speaking for me. No, no, no. You're their spokesperson right now. You put yourself in that position. I'm not a spokesperson. I never claimed to be. Yeah, you did. You said you were going to speak for dairy. You said you were going to speak for dairy. Okay, mastitis is... Okay, sorry. Sorry, I got that wrong. So, you have a leaving total herd. So, they just cull some off. Just because they are probably being replaced. That's 29%, 25% because they're not culling. No, no, no. With that one... I'm just showing you the data. Do you want to see this? Do you want to see this? This is the AHDB report. Okay, go on. I'm just showing you data, dude. I'm not trying to give you my opinion. 11% from mastitis. That was a bit higher. But 30% of the... We do that to stop the spread. Okay, and you just kill them, eh? Just kill them. Just kill them, eh? Listen, if it gets bad enough, most mastitis that I've seen can be treated. It might just be passed from the others. That obviously doesn't go into the tent. Does that go into the milk, does it, bro? No, it doesn't, no. Oh, really? Are you telling me that they don't have something called somatic cells? Do you know what somatic cells are? You said no. You're lying. It doesn't go into the milk. You don't know what you're talking about, Charlie. I'm sorry, mate. I'm not saying... I'm asking you if there's any... I'm asking you if there's any somatic cells in the milk. They have a limit. That means that there's some. Yeah, but not enough to hurt anyone. That's not what I... You straw-manning me. Is there enough somatic cells in it to hurt anyone? I asked you if there's somatic cells in milk. We know there's a legal limit. Which is like... What is it in the EU? It's 400,000... Like you said, there's a limit for government, but there will be a contract limit. So it depends who you're contacting with. Okay, I'm just saying that there is somatic cells in milk. And you said no, there's not. Do you listen to yourself? And you want me to let you finish? But you just told me at the start there's no somatic cells in milk. So what do I do? I'm going, what the f*** is he? You asked if there was mastitis in milk. Somatic cells? I said it repeatedly, dude. Yeah, but you said mastitis. And then you went on to somatic cells. Okay, well... Okay, bro. Did I ask you if there's somatic cells in the milk, bro? There is a limit for pesticides in plants. That means they're still... But anyways, I don't know why we're debating somatic cells. We're just figuring out like... Yeah, because they cull cows because of mastitis, basically. And they cull cows because they're not bullying 25% of them. And I just want to know... This is what I want to know. We're talking about reasons for culling dairy cows, basically. Lame-ness is one of them as well. If they're lame, they can keep culling them. 10% of dairy cows are culled and 19%-10% were removed from the herd because of lameness, which means sent to the slaughterhouse. Yeah, that means that they were bad enough where they couldn't walk. So what's the average age that they killed in the UK? Pardon? What's that? What's the average age they culled? Well, dairy cull. Yeah. Like I said, I think... Average, bro. Average. What was that? 10 to 15, but it probably can be lower because obviously it depends on if they're sick or not. Where did you get that data from? I'm just guessing now. So you're pulling it out of thin air? This isn't personal. No, bro, bro, bro, bro, bro, bro. No, no, no, no. Are you pulling that number out of thin air? No, I'm pulling it from my experience. So you're talking about your own personal anecdote? And the anecdotes of plenty of other farmers. No, no, no. I know, so other anecdotes from other little small backyard farmers. I want to know what... Joey, we're not small backyard farmers. We pretty much keep this nation running. Oh, do you? That's very noble, mate. Oh, so without dairy we couldn't run as a nation? No, no, no, I'm telling you... What the hell are you talking about, dude? We can't run without dairy. So without dairy the nation wouldn't run? Food production. How do people eat? Bro, bro, bro, bro, no, no, no, no, no. Dairy. No, I'm talking agriculture in general. No, no, no, you are talking about dairy. We are talking about dairy. We're debating about dairy. No, no, no, no. Would the country still run without dairy, bro? Well, we'd have to import a lot of it. No, no, no, no. Without dairy at all. Well, not really, no, because people still drink milk. Why not? Wait, wait, wait, wait. We need to drink milk. Well, the average age of exit is 6.7 years. And that's not me saying that, bro. Sorry, 6.7. That's the data. Sorry, bro. 6.7, so about six, six and a half. That'll be bought down because of illness and stuff like that. And TB and, you know... Yeah, whatever, dude, whatever, mate. That's the average age they kill the cows. Whatever, dude. That's the average age they kill the cows, all right? Because they give them about three or four carvings. They give them about three or four carvings, usually. So when they go into car for about 30 months old... I've seen more, but yeah, on average, about three or four, yeah. I don't care if you've seen more, dude. I've seen people, I've seen the Himsa dairies where they don't even kill the cows at all. That doesn't represent dairy. These are isolated incidences. I'm talking about what the majority of the data represents in the dairy industry in the UK. And they are culled at about six and a half years of age on average. And that means they could be less. It could be less. And that means they could be less. It could be more, but on average, six and a half years. Yeah, but, yeah. Okay, well, I'll accept that. Six and a half, fine. But like I said, that is because, you know, you can't look at that as black and white. There are reasons for that. Yeah, you accept it, bro, but you're the dairy expert here and you started telling me 10 to 15. So you don't know what you're talking about, brother. So you've just gone on about mastitis and white cows don't help you. You don't know what you're talking about because listen, what you've just talked about, right? They can be killed, but like you just showed the list there for many reasons. I asked you the average age of... I asked you the average age. Now, the reason I'm asking you that is because I asked you, did dairy farmers love sending their cows to the slaughterhouse because you said they do it for the love? No, we do the job for the love. We love looking after animals. So do you love sending cows to the slaughterhouse? That's what I want to know. Well, we have to. Do you enjoy doing that? No, it's not that we hate doing it. Of course, we don't enjoy it. A lot of time, we put a lot of effort into these cows and we do build connections with them and some of them are friendly. So you care about them? They're not scared of us. They don't really want to do with us. So Charlie, I'm just asking you, mate, do you care about these cows and some of them you care about and you send them to the slaughterhouse? I do work for a dairy farmer. A lot of the cows that are on that dairy farm I care for as if they're my pets. You care for them like they're your own pets? A lot of those cows I care for are their own pets. If they're sick, I'm constantly on the phone. Yeah, okay, that's great. And you send them to the slaughterhouse? If it gets to that point, yes. If we have to, we will. And what do you mean have to? If they're really sick, for instance. So you send them to the slaughterhouse when they're really sick? You don't get a vet to come and put them down? No, listen. If they're really sick on a farm, a lot of the time a vet will come and put them down. Which one is it, bro? Which one is it? When they're really sick you put them down and you send them to the slaughterhouse or you send them to the slaughterhouse when they don't produce milk anymore? Which is it? Does the vet come and euthanize them and they go to the... Again, it can be either. And the majority of the time... Bro, bro, bro, bro. You're acting like you're a nurse for the animals. It's hilarious. I want to ask you, where do the majority of them go? They go to the slaughterhouse to get killed for beef, don't they? Well, yeah, that's where cows would go to get... So why are you acting like you're a nurse and you're getting them like euthanasia when they're sick? What we will do is we'll get a vet out to have a look at them. Do what they can, but if they can't be helped they have to go to the slaughterhouse. What else do you do? Why would you send a pet that you love to the slaughterhouse to be shot in the head and have their throat cut open? Well, no, again, you're getting all... Dude, that's crazy. Allow it when they slit their throats. No, they slit all the animals... Do you know what happens in a slaughterhouse? No, they don't. They don't slit their throats. Throats in a slaughterhouse. Pardon? See, you're telling me now that they don't slit cows' throats in a slaughterhouse? That's how they do normal... Okay, so how do they get the blood out of the cows after they bolt them in the head? Well, they'll be dead then. I asked you, how do they get the blood out of the cow after they bolt them in the head? Well, they'll make an incision somewhere. Where? Where were they put the incision? I don't know. I don't know how cows are slaughtered, but you care about them so much. So you don't know anything about how the animals you love so much about where you're sending them? You don't know anything about that? I know they're stunned, and I know they're hung. You've never been in a slaughterhouse, you just told me. Pardon? You've never been in a slaughterhouse, you told me. No, I've not been to one house yet, no. So how the hell do you know what goes on in there, bro? You just take their word for it? I know people that work in them, and... No, no, no. There's all sorts of houses and all that sort of stuff, and, you know, they are, yes, their blood is drained out of them, yes. How? How is the blood drained, bro? I don't work in a butcher, I don't know. Oh, well, then why are you telling me they don't have their throat slit if you don't know? Pardon? Why are you telling me they don't have their throat slit? What you're trying to do is you say they're alive when they have their throat slit. I said they get bolt gunned in the head and have their throat slit. Bolt gunned sometimes, but sometimes it's electric. Oh, dude, you're hilarious, mate. Are you serious or are you taking the piss, mate? Like, you don't know anything about this... I'm serious, Charlie. You don't know anything about the slaughter of these cows. They might have their soaks through it to drain their blood, yeah. So they get their throat slit. What does that matter? They're dead at that point. I'm just saying, bro, they're not always stunned correctly, but let's just say the majority of the time they are. They go into that place, right, the cows that you love, right, if you've got to try to tell me that that's an enjoyable experience for them, then you are living in a fairytale dream and you can't say that because you've never watched them be slaughtered. You're acting as if cows are like humans as if they're... Since when? Cows all the time really don't... They're very chilled out animals and they don't know anything's happened. They're innocent, aren't they? They're vulnerable, easy to control, aren't they, cows? No, I can tell you from experience, cows are not easy to control. Oh, really? So they don't, like, want to be milked? You can't train cows to be milked? If they come for you, they'll go for you. All I'm saying, bro, is that cows are... They're terrified of people. They're gentle and they're terrified. I've been in dairy farms and they're terrified, dude. Tell me why, whenever I go, and again, this is, I personally don't, but I can tell you from a lot of other experiences, a lot of other farms, you know, you look on YouTube. Even just looking on YouTube, look at dairy farms on YouTube. The only time a dairy cow attacks anyone is if they're taking her car from her. That's the only footage I've ever seen. No, no, not always. Oh, really? Oh, really? If they, the only time they attack someone is if they don't know them. Yeah, mate. If they know the farmer... I've been in a... How come I've never been attacked by a dairy cow? How do you have a conscience sometimes? How often have you been attacked by a dairy cow? Pardon? How many times have you been attacked at the dairy farm then by cows? I've been... Let me have a think. Oh, if you have to think about it, it must have been a lot, eh? No, a couple of times. Was it an accident or deliberate? A lot of the time is when I first started on these farms and they don't know me and I'm acting as if I've acted on the old farms and they don't know you and they don't attack you necessarily but they'll look at you and they'll sort of... So they don't attack you? But as soon as they get to know you, they're completely fine with you. So they don't attack you. They're just wary of you. Wow, that's a hell different, though. You said they attack you. I wouldn't say attack. Then why did you say it, dude? Then why did you say it, man? It's weird to me, man, Charlie because you sound like a good enough dude, right? But what you're saying to me I'm finding it super hard to take you actually seriously because it's almost like you're trying your hardest to make things up so that you really make dairy seem like this beautiful experience for cows, right? You've never seen them be slaughtered. Your cows you care about so much. You know, it seems to me like you're just trying your hardest to justify it without being honest about it. No, because what you're really doing when I say something, you know, you're putting words in my mouth and you're not actually letting me speak some of the time but you're putting words in my mouth and you're saying, you know, the way you, the context of what you said of what, you know, not you specifically but generally in the end that you say it's all about context or I'll say something and you'll say it differently but because of the way you said it it makes it sound completely opposite to the way I've said it. Yeah, because you like to use euphemisms and make it sound a little bit nicer. I like to explain exactly what happens and you don't like to do that. You avoid doing that at all costs. So you say, oh, there, you know the calves are torn away from their mothers. They're not. A lot of the time they're calmly picked up and gone straight in it. I've heard you say it before on live. They are torn away. Well, wait a second. Plenty of vegans say it and they also, oh, they're torn away from their mothers and they're crying. So you gently steal the calf away from the mother. We don't steal anything. They don't belong to you, those calves. Do you think the calves belong to you? In your mind? Are they your calves in your mind? Well, then they belong to the farm. Oh, so they're the farmers' calves? Yeah. And if we, as I've said, they're your property, eh, the calves. I've really understood and if you, there's reasons we do certain things. Like I said, we don't want the calf. Yeah, we know the reason you are financially motivated as a business. That's why you breed them to begin with. He said to you, there's not much money in farming. You know, we... And as I just said to you, do you think the farmers are just doing this because they love the animals? Farmers do their job because they love the animals, they love the job, they love all the... And they don't care about the money, basically. The dairy industry... Listen, I can tell you for a fact, as somebody who works in a farm, no one I know who's a farmer has really got that much money. And there's not a lot of money... No, no, no, no, no, no, dude. They're making a living off of farming. Yeah, we just about get by. Just about. So you just scrape and buy doing one of the hardest jobs imaginable? Yeah, it's probably... Agriculture is a very difficult industry to work in. There is long hours, you know. So the dairy industry is not a profitable industry at all? There is a very, very small profit. Sometimes they may even make a lot of profit. So basically, are you making this claim for all of dairy? Jump between above and below and above the profit line. Are you making this claim for the dairy industry in the UK? Because that's what we're talking about. Yeah. Okay, so the dairy industry in the UK is not profitable. What it is... So it's not a business, it's just they do it. All the dairy farmers, right. This is what I want to know. All the dairy farmers in the UK, whichever, like, collectively, they're actually... If you grab them all, all of the dairy farmers in the whole of the UK, they're not doing it for money. They're all doing it because they actually just care about the job. They care about the job. Yeah, a lot of them do it because they care about the job. Because as I've said... That's not what I said, dude. A lot of them do it because they care about the job. I asked if the dairy industry in the whole, in the UK, is financially motivated or they just do it if they love the job. If you look at... If you look at... If you look at stand-alone farmers in themselves, local farmers, you know, your local lad at the road, he runs 100 cows to a dairy... No, I don't care about the local lad, dude. I'm talking about the UK is the 13th largest milk producer in the world. Milk accounted for 16.4% of total agricultural output in the UK and 4.4 billion pounds in market prices. I'll divide that up between how many farmers there are in the UK, dairy farmers. Okay, there's 12,000. On average, we're getting paid 30,000. It doesn't get divided like that. But I'm asking you about the dairy industry as a whole. It's not financially... You think that you're all just getting buns? We get paid... It depends on contracts. On average, if you're a conventional milk, if you're organic, if you're conventional, you get paid 30 to 35 per litre. So what you're telling me then is that you could easily just because you're not making any money and it's quite hard work, actually, you could easily just not do it. Yeah, we could, but we... Could you make more money in another job? That's what I want to know. You can't... You couldn't just... No, you. You, Charlie. I'm trying to find out if you could make more money in another job. Do you have your own dairy farm or you just work on a dairy farm? I work on a dairy farm, but I... And yes, I listen. I could make more money somewhere else. Alright, now we're like... I mean... This only applies to, like, people who have their own dairy farm because you seem like... I thought you had your own dairy farm but you don't. I did say at the start I worked on one. Maybe I didn't make it clear enough, but... No, you did mention it once before, but, like, look, so, really, what you're saying is these... So you basically know what income each farmer gets, yeah? No, because it varies. Okay. So what I'm saying is... What I want... From your perspective, you believe, like, truly that the dairy industry operates out of care for the job not because of any financial... not because of fine... narrowly financial reasons. If you're a family farmer, because I know a lot of people... No, no, no, bro, you trippin', bro. I said the dairy industry in the UK, the dairy industry. Do you know what that means? It's this whole entity. Yeah. You mean, you know, free range dairy? I'm talking about what represents the entire dairy industry. You asked me to explain dairy. It's cows out in the field, you know, free range dairy. It's in the field, come in, you know, they're in the milking parlour for 20 minutes and max, and they're back out again. And they're living outside. They eat the grass. We grow the grass. So what I want to know, bro, if all this is done for the love, right, then why would you breed animals into existence just to kill them for the love? We don't have to kill them. Yeah, you do. Of course they kill them. Realistically, what are you going to do with it? Right, put it this way, and I know that a lot of people say this. Yeah, I'm just saying, do they do this for the love? What are you trying to make a point of here? I'm just asking you if this dairy farm does it for the love. I don't know the farmers, so I wouldn't know. Then why are you making a claim about the dairy industry? I'm making a claim about the majority of the dairy industry. As I've said, there's bad parts of everyone. So these, there. So, okay. So essentially, that's cool. You have your own world view about it. I actually can't, I can't prove to you the motivations for this. I can't prove to you the motivations for farmers. All I can tell you is dairy is a multi-billion dollar industry, right? And it sounds insane that people would just go out there and do it for the love. And then it's interesting that you say that it's not financially motivated. That means they don't actually, they really don't have to do it. They're doing it as a hobby kind of thing, or for a passion. What I've said is the primary, listen, there is all, every job you do, there is going to be an aspect of money to it. Because, you know, you need money to live, you need money to buy stuff. I don't have a problem with money necessarily, by the way. But dairy is a whole, a lot of the dairy industry don't get, you know, if you're a private farmer, don't get paid that much for farm. Okay. I don't know why they're exploiting and killing animals for fun, for like some passion when they don't have to. That seems a bit weird. It's a cycle of how we produce food. That's the food production cycle. We can't produce food without cows. If you wanted to feed everyone just off crops and veg and all that sort of stuff, you couldn't do it. Oh really? Do you have any data to support your claim? Soils have a lifeline. I'm just asking you if you have data to support your claim. You made a claim. You said we couldn't feed everyone off plants and vegetables. You made a claim. Do you have evidence? Think about it. If you make a claim without evidence, I can just dismiss it without evidence. Again, someone might have to research this but I think it's two thirds of land isn't suitable for crop production in the UK. Because it's on hills because you can't get to it or whatever it's not suitable for crop production. What do you do with that land? Let it sit dormant? Or do you grow beef and sheep and lambs and grow there and produce good quality, not good quality. What do you mean good quality dude? Free range? Chopped up animals? Okay, so you said that we couldn't feed everyone on plants. Is that your claim? That was your claim. I don't have to ask you. That was what you said. We can't feed everyone on plants, yeah? You're getting whispered by someone else. Why don't you just answer the questions yourself? Someone's whispering to you. Why don't you just answer the question yourself? You said you can't feed everyone on plants. She wasn't whispering about that. She wasn't giving me that. She was telling me to leave it but I'm not leaving it. That's good. You're passionate about defending dairy and defending... 36% of the UK land is cropable and that's fine. She's googling that for you. 36% of the UK. And how many calories can you produce off that 36%? How many people could you feed? I don't know. Why are you telling me that? Why do I care if you don't know how many calories per acre or how many calories... Only 36% of the land is cropable, yeah? Okay, so... How many people in the UK? I care how many... I care if you can feed the population off 36% of the land. It would be very, very difficult. How do you know that? You don't even know the empirics on it. You don't even know the... You don't even know the... You don't even know... Sorry, brother, you don't even know the empirics on it. It's not common sense. It's not common sense. I'll tell you why. Listen, fertiliser increases yield, yes? Sorry, we can agree on that. You put fertiliser on land. You don't produce... You don't even know how many calories 36% of land could produce. So you don't even know if 36% of land could feed the entire of the UK twice over. You don't know that. It depends what crop you grow. Because different crops give different calories. Well, you don't even know. So why would I... Why are you making a claim without knowledge? There's a certain amount of calories and a ton of barley. There's a certain amount of calories and a ton of wheat. It's different because it's a different crop. So you said to me, oh, how many calories do you grow from that 36%? I don't know. It could vary because it depends on the crop. Bro, you're saying we can't live. We couldn't feed the population on plants. That's what you're claiming. So right now, right? Do you know we've growing enough plants to feed a bunch of animals and humans? Do you think those animals are just grazing on a non-arrable land? No, I know we feed... We feed barley, we feed oats. I can't hear you, your mic. Sorry, my mic got... We feed barley to... Oh, just barley? Just barley? Just barley? Is it just barley, is it? It's the stuff that doesn't make it to the shops a lot of the time. I'm just talking about worldwide. Worldwide. Are we just talking about the UK? Because worldwide, do we just feed barley to cows? To pigs? To chickens? And what about chickens and pigs? What do we feed them? Grass? Silage? No. And grains, yeah? And soya? Yeah. And soya. And soya from the Amazon? Yeah. Okay. So they import... Okay, so they import grains to feed pigs and chickens, yeah? Yes, they do. Are you saying they don't import grains to feed pigs and chickens? What are you talking about? They import... No. Yeah, I know that. I know they do, but that doesn't feed the entire flock of chickens. 40,000, 50,000 flock of chickens. What do you mean? There's like 50,000 in the shed, on a farm. Do you know what chicken farming looks like in the UK? It's like crazy, dude. What, do you think they can grow enough grain to feed all those chickens year-round? They import it. We could... Yeah, obviously, there is some... Some of it is imported. Okay, so what I'm trying to say... The majority of it is grown on farm or grown... Majority, do you have the empirical data for that? Pardon? The majority of the feed that the farm animals in the UK... I'm just saying, you said the majority of the food that the farm animals in the UK eat is grown in the UK. The majority of the grain that the animals eat is grown in the UK. Is that the claim? Yeah, some of it will be imported, but if you look at a lot of it, it's grown on farm and they're fed the... Yeah, I've seen farms that grow crops. I'm just saying... Supermarkets have... We sometimes feed potatoes because they're the potatoes that don't make it to the shop because they're too big or they're too small or they're not the right shape. Look, mate, like all I'm saying is that we grow enough plants to feed the 7 to 8 billion human beings and also the 80 billion land animals multiple billion farmed fish, right? So we grow enough plants... About fish, to be honest, I'm... Okay, well all I'm saying is we grow enough plant food, we use enough arable land to grow enough plant food to harvest, to give to these animals, right? And I know some of it's not edible for humans, I know that, but a lot of it is. It's just grains and beans, things like this. Yeah, I'm just saying that 83% of the world's farmland is used for animal agriculture. And if we all ate a plant-based diet we could reduce it by the world's farmland by 75%. If you want to see the study I can just show it to you and you can have a look at it. It was the biggest most comprehensive study on farming and resources, I think, ever done. The biggest analysis to date. So what I'm saying to you, bro, I mean I can show it to you if you like so getting my cameras all mixed up. Do you want to see it? Do you want to see the study? I'm just... You don't have to, it's just up to you. You know, you can just... So it's the biggest analysis to date reveals huge... It's not an article actually, this article was based off of a study. No, we're not talking about... We're talking about your claim we're talking about your claim that you can't feed the world on plants. I'm saying that 83% of farmland is used for animal agriculture just meat and dairy, right? And we could reduce it by 75% if we all adopted a vegan diet, right? Now you just said we couldn't feed the world on plants we could actually reduce the world's farmland by three quarters. If we fed the world on plants that would increase the climate change problem because... Evidence? Do you have evidence? Well, wait a second. Wait a second. If we're in the UK you've got to import that soy from South... They're importing soy for the chicken feed I just told you from Amazon. We have the byproduct of the production of soy milk. Soy... Soy is imported. Some of it goes to your soy milk or whatever. The soy we eat doesn't come from the Amazon generally. It comes from the EU. Okay, I've just... I don't know... The soy can only be grown... but soy has grown a lot of time in rainforests it's been deforested. Okay, most of that soy is being grown I think 90% of the soy in the Amazon is being fed to cows actually. Wait, is it? What did I see this? So, basically... So, meat and dairy produces 60% of agriculture's greenhouse gas emissions. Talk about what I just said. So, animal agriculture or meat and dairy produce 60% of agriculture's greenhouse gas emissions. 60% So, and I'm saying to you we could reduce the Earth's farmland by 75% so we'd need less land to produce more calories or the same amount of calories we'd need less land and you're using soy as an argument which is interesting because 77% of the world's soy is fed to animals in animal agriculture. So, that's... What? We use that because you know we use some of that. Who's we? If we feed animal soy... So, you feed animal soy and you're worried about my soy consumption and you feed the animal soy. Are you worried about my soy consumption? They know that soy is not good for the environment. Oh, really? So, you just admitted farmers use soy and you don't have to. Do you use soy? The cows at the farm? Okay, then why do you say we use soy? I was just talking... There are some farms that use soy So, you're saying we as like you're this collective group which is interesting, you think you represent... One little word I've said No, because when you say we use soy... A lot of farms are trying to come off soy because they know it's bad for the environment they're trying to... Bro, most of the soy is fed to animals. Pardon? The majority of soy is fed to animals, bro. About 77%. Look it up, dude. Like, you've got your phone there. Just look it up. Why are you even arguing with me about it? It's not a lot. It's the vast majority of it, dude. It's the vast majority of it, brother. Why would I care? Why would I care? It's not damaging to have a little bit of soy. It's damaging to have most of the soy being grown in the Amazon and destroying the Amazon to be fed to bloody chickens so people can have one bit of chicken. It's not predominantly grown for chickens, though. It's predominantly grown for animals, cows, chickens, pigs. Again. Brother, you don't know what you're talking about, mate. If you don't think most of the soy is grown for chickens, cows and pigs then I don't know what to tell you, mate. So, but anyway... Let's round this up, because... Well, one thing we haven't spoken about is what we've just touched on then. I just wanted to have a quick... environmentally... you know, what's your opinion on... I know what your opinion would be, but I just want to hear your reasoning behind it. What's your opinion on... I know you're going to say yes, but what's your reasoning? Is it best for the planet to go vegan? I just said... Like, if we wanted to reduce... If we wanted to reduce the Earth's farmland by 75% and I think it was 60% of the greenhouse gases were being caused by meat and dairy. This is not what I think. This isn't my opinion. This study, man. This study... of 40,000 farms in 119 countries... One second, bro. You asked me for my opinion. I was going to just tell you it. Look at the travel industry. Look at this. Look at that. Just wait a second. Joseph Paul concluded at the end of the study that going vegan is the single biggest way to reduce your impact on planet Earth. Why wouldn't I listen to this massive landmark study by Oxford University? 40,000 farms in 119 countries they analysed. Why wouldn't I listen to that? Why would I listen to you? It's... Farming is... because that is, you're looking at worldwide. We're talking about vegan world. I'm talking about being vegan worldwide too. I'm talking about a world change. If we're going to be environmentally friendly or whatever you want to call it, it's not about getting rid of farms. It's not about that. It's about changing... Why not? Well, bro. You just told me you support the majority of farming at the start of this conversation. Regenerative... You want to talk about regenerative farming? Okay. Okay, so... Okay. Regenerative farming? Okay, one second. At the start of this conversation you said you support... Not buying... You want to buy local? You know there's a local factory farm near my house? A million local free range dairy farms they're made. There's a local factory... You said buy local. Most of the dairy farms I go to are local. Most of the factory farms I go to... Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry. Sorry, mate, but most of the factory farms I visit are an hour away. Two hours away. They're in towns, next to people. Most of the factory horrible farms that you don't support are local to someone. When I say local... Local to someone? What does that mean? Let me talk and I can explain. When I say local I mean family run. That's not what you said, bro. That's what I didn't explain what I meant by local. Free range, family run. They actually care for their animals. They care for them, eh? You going to make that claim? They care for them? They send them to the slaughterhouse. They send them to the slaughterhouse, bro. Free range. Free range. And how do we know they're free range? Because... Because the farmer label tells you? Because the label on the packet tells me? If they've got a certified stamp or stamp for approval from, you know, Red Tractor or whatnot. Red Tractor. Yeah, and again I agree with you, Red Tractor can be a bit of an iffy subject because that is just the basic guidelines, Red Tractor. Red Tractor basically standard factory farming in the UK. That's Red Tractor. Yeah, Red Tractor. I will agree with you, Red Tractor. Then why did you mention it, bro? You don't know what you're talking about. You're mentioning factory farming to us. Local... When I say Red Tractor, what I mean is if it's had a certified stamp from a company... Why do I care about that? Why do I care about Red Tractor certified or certified stamp? Don't I care about reality? You get to know your local farmers. That's what I'm going to say. So you're telling us not to trust labels then? Because obviously you think we shouldn't if we have to go to the farm ourselves. If you can, if it's possible buy from a local family farm, buy from a local family farm. Most farms... Local family budgets will support local farms. Most factory farms are family owned. Go to your local family farm, your small family farm, you know... Okay, let me just show you something, man. Let me just show you something. Let me just show you something. 96% of U.S. farms are family farms. Did you also know... That's fine, but did you also know that 99% of U.S. farms are factory farms? That's interesting, eh? Yeah, as I've said, I'm talking from a U.K. stamp. Okay, that's cool. So you wouldn't say that from a U.S. perspective, eh? You wouldn't tell people in the U.S. to buy from family farms, eh? Pardon? You wouldn't tell people in the U.S. to buy from family farms, eh? Well, if it's a factory farm, no. Okay. So you're saying that factory farms aren't family owned here in the U.K.? They're all owned by just some corporation? There will be, but I'm talking... You know, you've just said, rid rich families, right? No, no, no, no. Well, there's no money in farming, so they're not rich, they do it for the love. Well, no, because what they'll do is they'll have made their money in another business and they'll buy a farm for the mission or so they can... Get subsidies? You don't get subsidies? We barely got any anyway, but they're dropping the basic payment scheme in the U.K. So no subsidies for farmers anymore? So you have to actually work in the free market like everyone else? Yeah, look, I don't actually believe you because you don't know what you're talking about most of the time, but we have to research it ourselves. They're not dropping subsidies for farmers, I don't think, mate. If they did, it would end the industry. But you get bailed out by... I'm trying to save you, let me explain. We're dropping the basic payment scheme, which was originally done off land, like how much land you owned. And now they're moving... They haven't officially released all the details yet, but what it is basically going to be is more of an environmental standpoint, if that makes sense. So you'll get money for rewilding, you'll get money for, you know... Not a lot. Yeah, rewilding, why? Because like, 48% of the land here is actually deforested for farms. So they're probably just incentivising farmers to rewild. Because it's better to rewild than to have animals grazing on the land for the environment, isn't it? You just admitted that then. No, no, I didn't admit that at all. So why are they being incentivised? Why are they being incentivised to rewild for the environment if having animals grazing all over the land and deforestation is good for the environment? No, I never said... When I say rewilding, they're rewilding... So what we would do... So they don't rewild for the environment then? Why do they rewild? It's not for the environment? If you let me talk, I can explain to you. But what I'm trying to say is you know, genuinely... No, genuinely, just stop interrupting and let me talk, because you feel like... I think you feel like you've got me here and you won't actually let me talk. And that's what you've done you know, constantly talked. Yeah, but you have been talking nonsense the entire time, Charlie, making up stories. That's why I'm cutting you off and you're making me frustrated. So with arable farmers, a lot of them, what they would do is they would say you've got to land a field which is 10 acres, for instance. Yeah? I feel like you're bored, but what you do... I've been intrigued in what you're saying and you're actually not asking about what I'm saying because you don't want to hear the other point of view. And I'm not saying we're ever going to agree on this because you're... Of course not, dude. Do you think you care for animals? You send them to the slaughterhouse to be cut up. It's a weird way to care about animals. It makes sense for us to care for the animals. You know... Yeah, for financial sense, that's it. Financial sense. If an animal's not in good condition, then we won't... You know, you're going to jump on this, but we won't get as much money for it. Exactly. You admitted it. Bro, you don't care for the animals because it's good for the cows. You care for it because it's good for their finances. It's good for their pocket. We want them to be... Of course it's good for the cows, but I'm saying that the primary motivation that farmers care for the animals is because they have to look after their livestock because they are their bottom line at the end of the day. They don't just have sanctuaries these farmers. They're not just doing it for nothing. Listen, I'm not disagreeing with you on the money side of it, and I've admitted that the whole way through. No, you denied it, bro. You kind of denied it. That's why I was a bit... We had a debate about it for 30 minutes. No, no. There is a money aspect, but you asked me if it was purely for profit, and I said no. We don't farm purely for profit. I don't work on a farm purely for money. I do it because I love it. I don't care about anecdotes, Charlie. I'm not an additive. Realistically, you've gone on your point. You've gone on, you know, showing me your videos and all that sort of stuff. Yeah, just to show you what calf hutches were because you just denied they existed or something. A calf hutch is basically a little shelter. It's a tiny little cage they keep the animals in, dude. That's what it is. Out of curiosity. You know on that farm, you showed me a video because I'm actually curious about this. Where was that? I'm not telling you where it was, bro. I'm an investigator. It was in America. I told you it's in England, brother. Pardon? I'm in England. It's an English farm. I investigate English farms. And it was an intensive one, yeah? No, the first one was a smaller farm. The first one was a smaller farm. The second one was intensive. Yeah, the one you showed me with the car I'm talking about calf hutches. Yeah, well it doesn't there's two calf hutches in that video, bro. The first one was a smaller farm. The second farm was intensive massive big intensive mega farm mega dairy in the UK. Yeah, I'm not I personally factory farms are a very iffy subject for me. I'd rather farmers, all farmers be free range. Okay, well, do you oppose factory farming? I'm against it. Are you against factory farming? Yeah, I would say. Factory farming where they mistreat animals and no, no, no, no, no. Yeah, by virtue of them being factory farmed they are being mistreated. I would rather. How do you disagree with that? You're against factory farming. You know what entails factory farming? You know what factory farming entails? Yeah, no, I don't know. I disagree with that. Okay, so then you actually I would make all farms free range. Yeah, it's like 85% of land animals in the UK are factory farmed. So you're actually against most of farming in the UK, bro. At the start of this you said you support most of farming. You're actually against most of farming. Farming for me is the free range the little family farms The free range farming. Okay, that represents a miniscule amount of farming in the UK which is quite so you're against farming with me basically. It should be like free range. You know, cows out in the field, all that sort of stuff. Okay, cows out in the field but you support the slaughterhouses actually on those you support slaughterhouses on those farms, the free range farms. I support slaughterhouses on farms. Do you support slaughterhouses? Because you said you're against factory farming. Are they? No. You said you don't support factory farms. I'm asking you now a different question. Do you support slaughterhouses? Well, yeah, because that's where you get meat from. Okay, so you think they're okay but factory farms are bad? Well, because slaughterhouses have standards to abide to. Oh really? And just for example what method do you think they kill pigs in? Stunt. They get stunned. How do they get stunned? Like a bolt gun, like a cow. Oh really? Yeah. Okay, well that's not actually how they get stunned. How is it then? They get stunned. Well they get stunned in a gas chamber and that's 85% of the pigs in England. 86% actually in England and Wales. Do you know what a gas chamber looks like for a pig, mate? Well, they're killed instantly, I'm assuming. They won't get any suffering. They won't be, you know, if they are killed in a gas chamber there will be no suffering. It'll be instant, pretty much. Just instant. Is this what it's all about? No, this is just inside the COT gas chamber. It's pretty instant, eh? I look instant to you, bro. That'll be a farm that's not farm, sorry, a slaughterhouse that's not abiding by standards and obviously not giving the correct dose. And then I don't know enough about pig farming. Sorry, buddy. Can you please repeat what you said? So, I didn't hear you because of the sound of the pigs. What did you say? That would be a slaughterhouse that wouldn't be abiding by what? Well, I'm not 100%, because I don't know enough about pig farming. You said you support slaughterhouses, so, sorry. Go ahead. Yeah, slaughterhouses that abide by the rules and that don't give any suffering in your view, suffering. What do you mean in my view, dude? What do you mean in my view? They don't suffer, do they? I mean, if you look at cattle... No, dude. I just asked you a question about pigs. Well, I don't know enough about pig farming, so... Well, I'm showing you how 86% of them are slaughtered in the UK. That's an Australian gas chamber for CO2. If I was in who uploaded that video. Why does it matter? Why does it matter? Do you think it's fake? It depends if someone's got an agenda or not. It is what it is, dude. No, is it from a neutral source? They're from animal rights activists. Their agenda is to... One second, their agenda... I will admit that that might happen because there are, you know, as I've said, it's like the BBC... What are you trying to say? That they picked out the worst gas chamber? All they'll do is they'll pick out a slaughterhouse that is not doing stuff properly. Or, you know... What does proper CO2 look like? Do you have any idea? You're going to lose this part of the debate, dude. You're going to lose. I don't care about that. I don't care about panorama. That's totally different. No, it doesn't. It does not matter, mate. It does not matter because 86% of pigs, no matter what, are killed in gas chambers. What you saw on that farm is not standard practice, right? Standard practice. You can't pick this out. CO2 gas... It doesn't matter. It happens in the UK, Europe. It doesn't matter. So what do you think the welfare bodies say about CO2 gas in the UK? Do you think the highest... Choose one of your favourites from the farming industry. Choose one of your favourites. What do you think they have to say about CO2? Do you think they go, oh, it's all lovely? Choose one of my favourite ones. Your favourite animal welfare farming organisation. What do you think they say about CO2? Well... I don't know because I... You don't know anything about it, do you? That's why... You just don't know anything about it. It causes... Extreme pain and suffering to pigs. It's aversive. It burns them. And it terrifies them. What you've done is you've tried to pick topics that I don't know enough about. I asked you if you support slaughterhouses. You said, yeah, because meat comes out of them. Now I'm telling you that CO2 versus the pigs causes them suffering. All the welfare organisations are actually against it, right? And, you know, you just blindly support all slaughterhouses but you think that's cruel. You think it only happens in Australia. I'm telling you, it's standard across the board. But like, now you're sort of backpedaling and stuff like this. Even your own... Even the industry doesn't defend it because it's so bad. All right? Yeah. So do you support gas chambers or... Do you eat pigs? Yeah, I eat all sorts of meat. So you eat pigs. So you actually eat out of gas chambers. Suffered pigs. Okay, and your point is... My point is you're supporting horrible suffering. You said you, you know, you think, oh, it's all free range. It's all free range and to standard in there. Those animals, they just... It's all gentle and it's all kind when they go on the gas chamber. I'm pretty sure you said something like that. I thought it was that. You said something like this. You said quick, knocked out straight away. Let me quote myself again, and I'm pretty sure I know what you're on about. All I said was with cows. Again, you picked off it. It's got to be on my TikTok anyway, dude. They'll tell you all about it. Yeah. Okay. Do you think you should be eating out of gas chambers if it causes crazy suffering to pigs? As I've just said, I don't know enough about the pig and poultry industry. If you found out it caused them extreme suffering, I'm trying to say to you, I don't know enough about pig and poultry. Okay. I asked you a question. I just said, if you found out... Yeah, you're cornered, aren't you? You're cornered. I asked you, if you found out it caused extreme suffering, would you stop eating pigs? Say that again? Sorry. If you found out that CO2 caused extreme suffering to pigs, would you stop eating out of gas chambers? Well... I'm going to think about it, dude, mate. I would probably stop, but... They suffer in a horrible way. How much more do they have to suffer for you to stop eating them, dude? Well, they don't... Listen, mate, I don't... I don't know enough about pig and poultry. I don't care if you don't know. I'm asking you for an answer. You don't need to know. I'm asking you how much do they have to suffer for you to stop eating them? That doesn't take data. I would eat them. You would eat them if they suffered? Then I would stop eating them, but at the moment I still eat them. You don't actually care about animals, which is very clear to me. You said you care about them, but... If anyone were to touch any of the animals where I work, it would... I would be fuming. You care for those animals at your work, but you don't care for pigs? They're suffering gas chambers? Listen, I care about all animals, and farmers are the same. They don't give a shit, dude. They don't care about animals. That's nonsense, mate. Most farmed animals come out of factory farms. Do you think they care about animals? Well, no. And that's why I... Look, dude. You just said most farmers care about animals in that, and like... Come on. I look at the labels, and a lot of people now will look at labels of where it's come from, where a burger comes from, and I try and buy a local as much as possible from local butchers. So, have you been inside a local slaughterhouse? Pardon? Have you been inside a local slaughterhouse? No, because you have to have... You have... Well, I will be going into one. Okay, tell me if you'd like to trade places with the animals in there. Well, let me put it this way. If you asked me if I wanted to trade places with a cow in a slaughterhouse, I would say that they don't... A cow doesn't look very different. You're looking at everything in black and white. You're looking at everything in a way that benefits you. Would you want to be in the place... Would you want to be... If you care about cows so much, would you want to be in their position? Where? If you care about those cows so much at your work, would you want to be in their position in the slaughterhouse on their last day? A lot of dairy farms, I would happily be a cow there because they live such nice lives. They have constant supply of food, constant supply of water. I asked about the slaughterhouse, bro. You went to their nice life. I asked about in the slaughterhouse. Would you like to trade positions with them in the slaughterhouse? Well, it doesn't make because I'm a human and I have a conscience and cows... If it's so humane, you don't think a cow has a... A cow... I can assure you a cow is not the same as a human. I never said they are, dude. One's a cow. What do you mean? Who thinks they're the same? Do you think a cow has emotions? Does a cow have emotions? You're telling me as a human would I want to go into a slaughterhouse and I would say no. Okay, do you think a cow wants to? Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Does a cow want to? Well, a cow doesn't know what it wants. It just sort of cuts it out. Oh, wow. I'm telling you now cows don't know what it wants. So if a human... Okay, so let me just ask you this. If a human being couldn't conceptualize a slaughterhouse and they wanted, you know, some human beings are born differently to others, you know? I'm just asking. Would that make it okay to slaughter them? And it's two different models. No, I'm just asking you. No, I'm making an analogy, right? And I'm saying if a human being didn't know what a slaughterhouse was, right? Then why are you just saying you can't compare them? I'm trying to compare them. I'm trying to give a human being the same mentality as a cow. Why, you don't understand an analogy, that's why. You don't understand an analogy. I'm trying to find out if you're consistent. Do you know what a consistency test is? Yeah, I know what a consistency test is. Okay, I'm trying to find out if you're morally consistent. So I'm trying to find out if a human being had the intellect of a cow, right? Would it be okay to put them in a slaughterhouse? Well, again, you're comparing... Mate, I'm not... See, you can't answer it, mate. You can't answer it. It's okay. You're weaseling. Do you know what weaseling is? It means that you're trying to weasel out of debate. Answers. You're weaseling out of the answer. I'm just saying you're weaseling. It's okay to be a weasel out of the question. No, no, no. I just asked you a question. If a human had the intellect of a cow, you said they don't even know, bro. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because you know what exposes your hypocrisy. That's why. I'm not talking to anyone like this. No worries, mate. Thanks for chatting. No worries, mate. Okay, so we ended up a... Would you kill a human with the intellect of a cow? Because his rationale for, you know, him not wanting to trade places with a cow in a slaughterhouse was that cows don't really know that they're going in the slaughterhouse. I think they know when they're in there and they see the blood and they see the chopped up animals. But if you sort of trait equalize a human, right? So if you get a cow and you get a human and you sort of trait equalize their mentality because you can do that in a hypothetical actually, is it okay to then put that human in a slaughterhouse because they've got the intellect of a cow? Obviously not. And if you cared about cows, you wouldn't just chuck them in a slaughterhouse. I mean, it's all nonsense, mate. And I think Charlie... What I didn't like about Charlie is he wasn't very honest. We're going to say that. I don't feel like he was being honest. I think he was speaking for all farming and he didn't even know all farming. He did know certain things about the dairy industry, I will say that. But he was speaking more in his experience at his dairy farm, and he wasn't speaking for the dairy industry as a whole. He started saying, oh, cows are slaughtered at 10 to 15 years old. That's like a minority. That rarely happens, kind of these small-time dairy farmers. He wasn't interested in any of the data on dairy industry. He pretended cow hutches didn't exist. He was just saying, we put him in a shed with the other calves. Well, I want to know what calf hutches are. He denied that. He didn't want to answer the three calf outcomes that actually happened in the UK. The calf is killed. They sent for veal or beef. Then three calf outcomes. Up until the end of this year, they can't shoot calves, bobby calves on the farm, bull calves. I asked him, he said that they care about animals and it wasn't financially driven, which is bizarre. All these people are just sanctuary owners. They try to make it sound like they just do it for the love kind of thing. Dairy industry is not in it for the love. There probably are some farmers who exist who really just love dairy farming. They would be these hobbyists that exist. But when I was debating Charlie, I was talking about the totality of the dairy industry. You know what I mean? I was saying, you're defending dairy. Let's go, let's get clear. You're defending dairy. You can talk from the dairy industry's perspective then. What essentially we're having a debate on is dairy. Not on anecdotes. Not on this person does that. We do dairy farms just for a hobby. I'm talking about the dairy industry as a whole. I'm talking about what represents most of the dairy industry in terms of practices. And we got to the point basically. We argued on a few points that were just kind of beside the point really. Just empirical stuff that we he was making empirical claims without evidence actually. Saying that we couldn't survive. The whole planet couldn't just eat plants. Considering most of the plants are being fed to animals which is pretty crazy. And the vast majority of farmland has been used for animal agriculture which is again crazy. We couldn't just exist on plants. How do I stop people from putting these little things on there? So anyway, it's cute. So thanks everyone for joining. Thanks Charlie for that debate. Even though I felt like you've been a bit dishonest and whistling out of questions most of the time. I still appreciate him for getting on a bit fun. But he's got to stop the nonsense dude. That was so much back to back to back to back to back nonsense that I think that's good actually. It just looked like you were completely making things up out of nowhere. And it kind of dug your hole deeper really. If you just admitted a few things you know here and there like that actually happened easily you just said yeah that happens started saying to take halves away for their own good. If you just admitted a few things and didn't make me like struggle to get the answer out of you like every time I ask them a question um yeah but that's uh like just dude if you're a dairy expert just answer yeah it happens most of the time at my farm it doesn't or whatever just say that.