 Si'n fawr. Felly, ydych chi'n gweithio'r ystod y ffyrwyr o'r periwyr yma yn Wales. Mae'n gweithio'r ystod yn ddod yn ymdweithio'r ysgol ffyrdd o'r cymdeithasol yng Nghymru. Mae'r dda i'r wneud o'r cwestiynau ymdweithio'r newid yw'r cyfrwyr ymdweithio'r cyfrwyr ymdweithio'r cyfrwyr ymdweithio'r cyfrwyr. I want to clear up some of that confusion today. I was very saddened to see this particular exchange on social media this morning from a supermarket telling a woman she could not buy period products. This is simply wrong. It's an incorrect reading of both the regulations and the guidance. And I'm very sorry that this woman was given this information. Supermarkets are open and trading, as are many other shops, and are able to sell the wide range of everyday items that we all need. But there are some other items that won't be on sale for the next two weeks. These are items that other high street shops, which are currently closed, can't sell at the moment. We face a very real public health emergency in Wales. We have a two week period in which we need to do everything we can to break the cycle of transmission and do everything that we can together to bring coronavirus under control. Infections occur and are spread when people are in close contact with other people in homes, in pubs, in shops. We've listened carefully to what people have been saying. So, we will take action today so that retailers understand that our rules already allow people in acute need to buy the basics which are essential to them over the next two weeks. But we also ask people to understand the very real crisis that we are facing at the moment in Wales. And to please treat people working in our shops with the respect that they deserve. We're meeting retailers this afternoon to review the regulations and guidance to make sure that it is being applied fairly and consistently. If there are anomalies, we will look at whether the guidance need to be revised or strengthened to make it clear that supermarkets have some discretion to sell to people who are in genuine need. Coronavirus is widely circulating in all parts of Wales. Cases have been rising in most local authority areas throughout October. In total, there are now eight local authority areas where the seven-day incidence rate is higher than 200 cases per 100,000 people. In Blaenau Gwent, Cardiff, with the Tidwell and Ron Macallantaf, the incidence rate is now higher than 300 cases per 100,000 people. This is the now familiar slide that shows just how high and how fast cases are rising in Wales. Yesterday, Public Health Wales recorded a further 1,158 cases of coronavirus. We have now recorded more than 43,000 cases of coronavirus since the start of the pandemic in March. Very sadly, on Saturday, there were a further five deaths, making last week one of the deadliest since the peak of the pandemic, with more than 60 people dying as a result of the virus. Public Health Wales will today report a further six people who have lost their lives. My thoughts continue to be with all those families who are mourning the loss of a loved one. Sadly, we will see more deaths and more suffering before we are able to bring the virus under control and to see the end of the pandemic. The latest information that I have from our NHS shows that we have passed the milestone of having more than 1,000 coronavirus-related cases in our hospitals in Wales. That's an 18% increase on the number of people in hospital from last Sunday, and the highest number since June. This number includes people with confirmed and suspected coronavirus and people who are recovering. The number of confirmed cases has risen to 616. That is the highest since the 24th of May and is up 26% on last Sunday. We are moving very swiftly towards the April peak, the point at which the NHS came very close to being overwhelmed. But in the spring, we had already postponed all planned operations and appointments. If we carry on at this rate, we will reach that same point within a matter of weeks. The number of people being treated in our critical care units with coronavirus has also risen sharply since last week. There are 56 people in critical care with coronavirus. That is up 40%. Overall, we have 172 people in critical care beds across Wales. This is 20 more than the usual number of beds the NHS would have. The NHS has already started to increase critical care capacity and has planned to expand to 292 beds if needed. But this type of expansion comes with real harms. The areas which are transformed tend to be theatres and recovery rooms. Turning them into critical care areas means we need to bring staff in from other parts of the hospital and our ability to maintain surgery becomes even more squeezed and reduced. That in turn has a direct impact on patient care and people's lives. This is not an easy time for any of us in Wales. For the next two weeks, you must all live with a new and very tough set of regulations. These place serious restrictions on our daily lives. The rules are here to protect all of us. They are here to help our NHS and they are in place to save lives. Over the coming two weeks, we are going to be asking extraordinary things from every single person in Wales as we live with the firebreak. But above all, we're asking for your help. This is not something that the government can do alone. It's only with your help that we will be able to break the cycle of transmission and reset the mounting harm that is being caused by the virus. Help our NHS to cope with the pandemic and normal winter pressures. Help to save lives. Thank you very much. I will now take questions from journalists and we'll broadcast all the answers live on our social media channels. The first question this week comes from Adrian Masters from ITV Wales. Over to you Adrian. Thank you Minister. It's the beginning of the press conference to the confusion and some of the criticism that you've received over the weekend for the list of essential and non-essential items. Regardless of the rights and wrongs of the situation, do you accept that the row has knocked trust in the Welsh Government's handling of the regulations and that that could cause people to ignore what you're asking them to do? I'm generally concerned about the messaging over this weekend because it's taken us away from the reason why the firebreak has been introduced. It is important that people trust in what the government is doing and why and the message we're getting from our national health service about the mounting levels of harm that coronavirus is causing. The weekend's messages have moved us away from the reality of the mounting death toll that we're seeing and the fact that we will see more harm coming over the next two weeks. When we published the evidence paper last week that underpinned our choice to introduce a firebreak, we were very clear that we would see more harm coming and you won't see the impact of the firebreak until another few weeks after it ends. That means we can expect to live with greater harm for the next few weeks to evidence of that in front of us being made real. What this government could not have done is in the face of that advice, in the face of the evidence of mounting harm to have chosen to do nothing and the package of measures we put in place included the closure of non-essential retailers. One of the elements that makes up what we're trying to do to save lives and that's the message we all need to reflect on and remember as we go about our choices, as we go about the next few weeks. Thank you and if I could ask you about a different subject, can you confirm that bereavement is a reason for a compassionate exemption to the rules? In other words, could somebody meet up with a family member with or without social distancing in order to provide support during bereavement? Bereavement is a reasonable measure to undertake to travel to see other people but again we ask people wherever possible to respect the rules on social distancing. What I wouldn't want to see is that people gathering to support each other in circumstances where they've lost a loved one potentially end up being a meeting that spreads coronavirus without much greater harm and as I said Adrian we've just gone through one of the deadliest weeks since we came through the peak of the pandemic I don't want to see a further loss of life that's why we've had to change the rules that's why the fire break is in place and while people support each other support each other after a bereavement and like many people watching this I've gone through family bereavement myself as well but to make sure that that support we provide each other doesn't lead to further harm being caused. Thank you Adrian. We've now done Davis and BBC Wales. Thanks Minister. You said that people who are in acute need of something should be able to buy it in a supermarket. That sounds like it could open up more confusion more difficult conversations if people are allowed to go to a shop and ask the staff if they really need something to sell it to them. Instead of relying so heavily on discretion of supermarkets on their staff isn't the easiest thing to do just to change the rules and say yes you can open all your aisles. With respect Dan, the answer I've just given Adrian from ITV sets out that we have a package of rules to interrupt the chains of transmission to interrupt and reduce the harm that the virus is causing. If we simply end the rules we have on non-essential retail we'll see more mixing, the step home message will be less effective by giving more people more reasons to leave the house and if we do that we simply couldn't change the rules in supermarkets because the unfairness that would provide the smaller retailers who are already there and you'll see this picture in Ireland as I'm sure you know Dan where smaller retailers are complaining bitterly about the fact that larger stores are selling items they've been prevented from doing so. If we essentially see that non-essential retail has opened up again we'll have to revisit the public health advice we've got about the effectiveness of the firebreak and I certainly don't want to be in a position where we have to row back on the choice we've made to have the shortest possible intervention to make the maximum difference. We looked at a package of measures to keep Wales safe that was the advice we had that was the advice that we published and we've acted on that advice. If we want to unravel that now we'll be in a very different place, a less effective measure and that's not what this government is going to do. It's about how we make the rules we have effective, clear, consistently applied and how we all act together to keep Wales safe and to save lives. Ministers have been saying that another firebreak in the new year is possible that it can't be ruled out and then yesterday the Deputy Economy Minister said it was likely, is he right, is it likely that we'll have another lockdown in the new year? None of us can say what's likely. What we are being really up front with people about is that the firebreak is necessary now with the exponential rise in cases. The exponential rise in harm that we're seeing. We want to have a national pattern for all of us to live our lives by to get to the end of the year. We'll need to look at what's happening through that time. We'll need to revise and look at where we are as we get there. I can't give you a guarantee about the position that we'll see at Christmas. So I certainly can't forecast or get into a hypothetical answer about the new year. Measures are possible for the future but that depends on how successful we are in coming together as a nation to act in a way that means a coronavirus is less likely to spread in the future, less likely to cause the harm we've already seen not rest at the peak but within this last week with more than 60 families mourning the loss of a loved one and that's what we all need to reflect on as we go about our business in the firebreak and beyond. Thank you, Dan. I've now got another down. It's Young Dan Bevin from LBC. Thank you Minister, good afternoon. I want to touch on something that Adrian mentioned and that's trust. The Welsh people have trusted Government throughout this even throughout some of the toughest measures anywhere in the UK. So my question is, why now don't you trust the Welsh people in supermarkets? We've actually looked at what's happened in the reality of where we are. We've looked at the advice we've had about needing to reduce contacts needing to close non-essential retailers part of that package and this isn't about trusting or not trusting. This is about an effective stay at home measure to make the firebreak effective and to do that in a way that is fair to all retailers and that's the choice that we've made and I come back again to the fact that we're seeing mounting levels of harm, not just those people who have lost their lives over the last week, Dan, but as I said earlier when we talk about critical care beds we're now about 13% over our normal capacity for critical care. Nearly one in three beds are occupied by people being treated with coronavirus. This isn't a game. This is something where we need to reflect on the seriousness of the position that we're in and the hardship and the difficulty we're all going to have to live through to the next two weeks will make a difference in saving lives. And I don't think that we can be clear that that's the point and the purpose that lies behind the rules we have in place and ask people to understand that and to support the changing rules that we all need to see. And you talk about people being able to buy non-essential goods if there is a genuine need. I wonder if you could give us some examples of what a genuine need would look like. And frankly, why should it be down to the government to decide why people might need something? It might be some very sensitive issues that are at play. Why should someone have to go to somebody works in a supermarket and ask and disclose such sensitive material about themselves in order to buy something that has been deemed non-essential? Well, these are the same categories of what's essential and non-essential we had in the first period with the first peak down. So we haven't introduced new categories and our challenge is that if we don't have an understanding of what we think is essential then we'll have all retail open with greater opportunities for mixing and we'll see harm continue at a different rate. Now we've got to take into account that we have built choices and we're not choosing between a perfect answer and an imperfect answer and we're going to balance up all of the harms that are being caused as we look to not just prevent further deaths from coronavirus but also if we don't arrest the increase in cases we'll see a rise in harm from non-coronavirus harm as well because we'll have to close off other parts of our national health service. So I don't think it's really a runner to have an effective firebreak but then to open up non-essential retail that will unpick the whole approach that we're taking. The point about discretion is we do recognise that have been exceptional circumstances they've been well advertised and talked about examples of people who really do have a desperate need to buy individual items and it's about that and we can either have an approach where we do rely on people's common sense an ability to talk with retailers to make sure that's provided rather than being deaf to the real concerns and complaints that a very small number of people would go through through those next two weeks for the great majority of us though of course will be able to manage for the next two weeks for the hardship, the interruption that causes yes but to avoid the much greater hardship and the much greater interruption to people's lives and their ability to still see family and friends in the future. I have a Bennett from Sky News. Thank you Minister. By giving supermarkets discretion over this ban aren't you just adding to the confusion around the rules? After all, how can a shop decide what is and isn't a customer's acute need? Surely you're risking a repeat of situations like the one we had with Tesco and customers not being able to buy sanitary products this morning? Well with respect the two entirely different things that confuse what we're talking about. With Tesco and the banning of sales of sanitary products they recognised they were wrong, they deleted their tweet and they apologised. So they're very clear that they got it wrong and we should just accept that that's what's happened and I'm glad that Tesco have clarified the position now and that no one should be spreading misinformation that somehow Welsh Government rules have prevented the sale of sanitary products during the firebreak. That simply isn't true. The point about if people really do need to go out and buy in exceptional circumstances things would otherwise be part of non-essential retail is that we've got to allow and our rules already allow for the provision of some of those exceptional circumstances to arise. So it isn't about whether I want a new toaster it's about what is exceptional circumstances where that might be needed and required. So we've already provided for that and that's always been within our rules in any event and it's a very different position to say, do you really provide for that exceptional circumstance or do you simply open up non-essential retail again and undermine the point and the purpose of the firebreak to be effective and to help us to save lives? On the issue of non-essential retail obviously some of those shops can still trade online but what about those businesses that can't? How is this fair to them? Well as we know many independent retailers do already have an online offering and we've heard from lots of those in Wales over the last few days who have gone out and talked about the fact that they are trading successfully online but the point here is we're reducing opportunities for people to see to have contact with each other it's part of our very clear and very understandable stay at home message. So to go up for things you really need as opposed to go up for things you want or would like to get is the point to stay at home to keep yourself safe, keep your family your friends, your community safe and to help save lives and I don't think we can be any clearer than that. And you pointed about the imperfection of some of the measures being taken well that's the word that we're in in making choices to balance the harms that are taking place and to understand for all of us there is no perfect answer every single choice comes with harm and it's about balancing those harms to make sure that we're keeping as many of us alive maintaining as much NHS activity as possible and that's really important to understand if we don't do this it won't just be we'll have even more coronavirus cases in our hospital it will affect the other care that the NHS provides that is essential to keep people well and alive through winter and that will maximise and increase further the harm already being caused. None of us should forget or lose sight of the fact this is a public health emergency lives are being lost every day we're going to be reporting more lives lost every week I'm afraid for the next few weeks we're likely to see an increase in the number of lives that have been lost. I think we're doing the right thing and acting with all the difficulty it causes because I'm confident that because of the choices we have made here in Wales we will save more lives. Thank you Iber have now Adam Hale for the Press Association. Good afternoon Health Minister are you and your colleagues accepting any responsibility about the problems with messaging and communication about the non essential items that and either in how it was delivered or leaving it 24 hours before lockdown to actually announce that stores would be told they had to police people shopping. Well to be fair stores through all of the period of lockdown have known they've got to think about the items they're selling so stores themselves have to think about this in the first period of lockdown so that in itself isn't new and of course we want to learn from how we get to this point to make it effective moving forward. There was a conversation on Thursday that I took part in with Leslie Griffith and major retailers we've had a further conversation over the weekend within Government listening to what people are saying and we've arranged a meeting for later this afternoon and of course ministers take responsibility for the measures that we're putting in place. This is difficult it's hard for people it's hard for people to accept sometimes that the rules need to change there's a significant intervention into lives and the Government of course continue to learn lessons on how we do our job effectively in communicating not just with stakeholders but with the public but not losing sight of the fact that this is a public health emergency but lives are being lost or interrupted but we're seeing one in three nearly of our critical care beds treating people with coronavirus. This is very very serious it's for all of us to do the right thing to keep well safe. Thank you and on that earlier point what stores using their own discretion to sell not essential items to individuals if they feel as though they're necessary can you actually spell out how people should be going about that or are you going to leave that direction ambiguous? No there's a conversation we're having on supermarkets and other retailers today about how to make that clear so a number of people have said that they were upset that they couldn't go and explain why something was particularly important for them and these are that's going to be limited circumstances because much the comment that we've seen over the weekend has actually been on the what if scenario that is unlikely to happen over the next two weeks and I think we do need to provide for that sort of set of exceptional circumstances for people to be able to have a conversation discreetly with people in the stores that they're visiting to understand what that need is and the danger is that if we say that if you don't have a perfect system you can't do anything at all we'll again lose sight of why the firebreak has been introduced while there's a package of measures to keep people safe and this is because we have chosen to act early to intervene before more harm is caused and I continue to say that it is the right thing for this government to do, for any responsible government to do, not to wait until much greater harm is caused and I actually think that when we get back to that public health message most people will be much more understanding about the level of inconvenience we're living in to avoid the much greater inconvenience the grief that people will suffer if they too have to mourn the loss of a loved one as indeed more than 60 families across Wales have done this week Thank you Adam, we've now got Mark Smith from Wales Online Thank you very much indeed Health Minister Firstly, when can the Welsh public expect to know what rules they will have to adhere to from November 9 onwards when the firebreak lockdown ends? Well, we're expecting over this week to engage with a range of stakeholders there are accommodations taking place today tomorrow, Wednesday and Thursday and beyond and we'll then expect to come together for the Cabinet to agree a set of rules we want to be in a position to give people at least a week or so to understand what the new rules are that are going to be in place but it's really important we have that conversation with stakeholders through this week and then of course we need time before the firebreak ends for everyone to understand what the rules are there's lots of learning about how we've come into the firebreak to apply that, to understand that and equally it means we've got to understand the advice we've been given by scientific advisers and the chief medical officer on what a sustainable set of rules will look like to allow people to go about to living their lives and to be able to see more people in a different context in a way that coronavirus doesn't take off again because we've seen more than once that this is a highly infectious new virus, we don't have a cure for it, we don't have a vaccine for it, so what we do to prevent the virus spreading is essential if we're going to avoid the sort of scale of loss of life that we've already seen in the first week. Thank you very much indeed, and secondly you mentioned it briefly in your statement but what's your message to those going into shops in only their underwear or those tearing down coverings preventing people from buying non-essential goods? Well I think that's sort of irresponsible behaviour won't help any of us there's real frustration from lots of people that people doing that need to look again at what they're doing and people giving them encouragement on a platform to do so with the divisive sort of political messaging we're seeing need to take a step back again. They also need to reflect on the fact about their making lies very difficult for our shop workers they deserve to be treated with more respect. The next two weeks will be difficult for all of us much more difficult for every single one of us in the country if we don't act together and if we do see a much greater loss of life than the one that we may still see even if we do all pull together. This really is about saving lives and I'd ask everyone in the rule out of everyone in Wales to play their part in making sure that we reduce the number of lies that are lost and more of us can look forward to a greater sense of freedom in the future when we get past coronavirus and still have as many friends and family to celebrate that new freedom with in the future. Thank you Mark, I've now got Rupert Everland from ITN. Thank you Health Minister. You're meeting this afternoon with the supermarkets given that they took action based on guidance from your officials and believed presumably they were doing what they've been told to do what are you going to be telling them to do differently this afternoon? Well we've had feedback from supermarkets and a range of other retailers over how the first weekend has gone and you've seen the well advertised example of where an individual store and a larger retailer has done some of the others haven't done. There's learning from within retailers themselves and between them to make sure that we do have a consistent application of what our rules provide and what the guidance provides as well. That should mean greater clarity not just for businesses and their workers but for the public as well and that greater clarity and consistency will be helpful for all of us in making sure we all understand what we can do. It's important to think about what we can do and think about what we're going to do to act together to reduce the loss of life that we'll otherwise see here in Wales. My second question, you've sounded at times during this press conference really quite angry. How do you sum up your feelings towards how the Welsh public have taken your fire break so far over the last three days? I'm not angry. I'm weighed down with responsibility for the challenges that we see with the lives that are being lost and the reality that if we don't act together I'll be coming to press conferences like this to announce the mounting harm we continue to see not just in our national health service but in communities up and down Wales. This isn't a point for anger it's a point for reflection for all of us but the great national challenge we face but the much greater loss of life that we will see if the fire break isn't effective we can't persuade people to follow the rules that are in place then we face a very difficult long, hard and unpleasant winter ahead and that's the risk for all of us and the price for all of us is that if we act together we'll save lives but we'll have a Christmas and a future we can all look forward to in the future with more of our loved ones around us to celebrate that. That's what we're looking to do that's why we're asking people to behave in a truly extraordinary way it's the purpose of this Government to keep Wales safe and that's why we've introduced the fire break. Thank you Rupert. I've now got Lydia Morris from The Daily Post. Thank you Minister. I know the Welsh Government came up with the list of essential and non-essential items did it work with retailers to compile the list and would it not be easier to just publish it for everybody to see? We have used the same categories of essential and non-essential items that we had in the first peak of coronavirus and we've published those categories they're in not just the regulations but they're also in the guidance that we've provided if you want to look at the guidance it sets up the categories of areas what we can't do is go through a line by line categorisation of every single retail of every single part of their offering that would be wholly impractical and the meeting today I think will provide the clarity that retailers themselves are looking for that the public are looking for and as I say retailers themselves would have learnt some lessons from different parts of their own operation and they'll have seen a different way of applying the same rules and the same categories within their own businesses so it's an important opportunity to learn and to make sure that the next two weeks of the firebreak are as successful as possible in the shared national effort to help save lives. I know that Welsh Government's aim is to be fair to small businesses but if Tesco is struggling to understand the non-essential rules how can you expect the public to? With respect Tesco made a mistake and it's a mistake that shouldn't have happened in trying to withdraw and make unavailable statutory products that was never the point and purpose of the rules we have in place and I was generally surprised to see that that had happened so this is about how we help people to understand and have that clarity but actually when you look at the categories of businesses that can continue to operate the goods that can continue to be sold I don't think it's that difficult or unclear most people are going about their business and the rules that we've set and understanding the reason why we've had to close a wide range of businesses to help keep us all safe and interruption now in the way we live our lives and interruption in the transmission of the virus and all for the point and the purpose of gaining more control over transmission here in Wales on saving lives on saving our NHS to protect it from being overwhelmed by you and all others all of us living here in Wales together to think about how we help and support each other to get through a difficult two weeks how we help and support each other to get through a truly extraordinary winter ahead Thank you Lydia We've got Josh Seale from the RMS Afternoon You've touched on it briefly already but treatment of shop workers was a repeated issue during the national lockdown in the spring A shop workers union has now felt the need to ask shoppers not to take out their frustration on employees Is it a worry to see this sort of behaviour rear in its head again? Well at this point in the normal cycle I would probably be having a conversation with local shop workers I'd almost certainly be doing something together with us door union as would many other members of the senate of the cross party to urge people to treat shop workers with respect in the run up to the end of year festive period It's a challenge that we've seen grow over time where more of us I'm afraid are less respectful of shop workers and the job that they do We've seen that exacerbated through the crisis We've seen a fanning of the flames of anti lockdown feeling in a way that isn't simply about disagreeing with the rules that are in place disagreeing with the public health arguments underpin the firebreak but do it in such a way that is divisive and actually plays to extremes in behaviour We're trying to make sure that we support the message that our shop workers deserve to be treated with respect If you don't agree with the rules contact your local elected representative it's a choice that we're making and we want people to at least buy and understand why we're doing this even if people don't agree we've had clear advice from our scientific advisors and from our chief medical officer this significant intervention in people's lives is necessary to significantly intervene in the transmission of the virus It is a highly infectious, deadly virus It is already affected more than 60 families who have lost loved ones over this last week more of us will be in that position in the coming weeks ahead The interruption is to reduce the number of people who will suffer that loss of life who will mourn the loss of a loved one So respect your shopkeepers and go about your day to day business and please follow the rules to help keep all of us safe We saw a police presence near the seven crossings on Friday evening as lockdown began with some vehicle checks taking place Is this something we should expect to see continue throughout the lockdown period? Well it's a very simple stay at home message and so police are going about educating and engaging with people and enforcing the rules If they need to, I've seen a policing report from the weekend that reflects very good levels of compliance There have been a few intervinces of where there has been a need to undertake some enforcement So whilst we're in a stay at home period just as we were in the first period of time in the pandemic then you can expect the police to enforce the laws of Wales It's a simple matter of doing what's right They're doing their part to help keep Wales safe and they need to do our part as well Thanks Josh You've seen quite steadfast in batting issues over the weekend to supermarkets and perhaps one in particular On Friday the First Minister told me the supermarket sector is very mature very responsible and will want to do the right thing If a range of retailers in an apparently competent and willing sector can interpret what you say so incorrectly surely that points to communication problems your end not theirs On Friday evening We have had conversations with supermarkets as I say on Thursday about the categories of areas There's been an understanding from the first time around about the categories that exist and as the First Minister said there were people at that time who thought that other retailers weren't following the rules in the same way They've been very clear in indicating to us that they wouldn't simply sit back and see that happen again There are a lot of retailers as well as smaller ones and as I said you see the opposite of this in Ireland where smaller retailers are very upset about the fact that the largest tools are selling non-essential items So it's both about the fairness of what we're doing and looking to work with retailers themselves to make sure there is clarity and understanding but it also comes back to the point this is part of the package of measures we have in place to reduce contacts as part of our stay at home and the week period that's left in the firebreak to help save lives and we can't forget that clear public health messaging about the reasons we've had to intervene in the way that we have Thank you and several businesses have been in touch this morning expecting the Economic Resilience Fund Phase 3 to be open Currently people progressing through the checklist have told the grant fund will be open for applications from the week commenced on the 26th of October The local authority have also said they're waiting for guidance on the business rates elements of that When is the ERF 3 opening? Why is it not open today? Well I can't give you that detail but I'm sure that Kent's Cakes Department will be making clear when that is available because as you're right that we've intervened significantly and that's been a number of businesses that have had to close we've put from the Welsh Government's own budget a near 300 million pound package of support that the economy minister has made available and we'll be happy to clarify with you and others when those applications will be available because we do want businesses to survive to have the opportunity to trade and trade safely for their workers to be safe in their workplace but customers will be safe as well and we'll happily clarify when that support is going to be available Thanks Rob, we've now got our finish with Tom Madner from Carers World Thank you very much indeed minister I'm going to take you off on to another issue if I may We've seen a Carers Trust summary that states that in England and Scotland you can also be prioritised for testing as a recognised key worker if you're an unpaid carer that's the end of the quote Closer to home the Walthare University Health Board refers in an update on test and trace to critical workers or unpaid carers although it's fair to say if you try to follow the link you don't appear to go anywhere so the question is are unpaid carers officially recognised as key workers in Wales if yes why do you think confusions occur and if not, why not and what do you intend to do about it Well the staffing one is that we do have access problems at this point in time of people getting a test so it shouldn't matter whether you're a critical worker or not and when we did look at this in the first period we did then make sure the carers were recognised as in a category around critical workers as well so they were prioritised above the rest of the general public because of the impact that their role has not just on them but on the people that they care for so if we got to the point where we were restricting tests then yes there'd be a different provision for unpaid carers compared to the rest of the public but we're not in that position people should still be able to access I'm not restricting the availability of tests to the wider public So informally it is the case but you'd review it it push comes to shove Can I just take you to another aspect one other viewer raises an issue about PPE no longer being exempt from the VAT at the end of this month which is last day Friday What efforts will you make are you making or have you made to persuade Chancellor Rishi Sunak to extend this exemption? Well I'm really concerned having seen that it's apparently apparently the current intention of the UK government not to extend the VAT relief on PPE and that simply can't be right as we are in a second wave in every part of the UK to load 20% of extra costs on PPE items just cannot be the right thing to do so I'm sure that and will decide which minister it is will be in contact with the UK government to make clear whether it's the wrong thing to do to ask them to reconsider and to consider the impact on our health and care services is then used to keep people safe if there really is to be a 20% increase in the cost of a range of PPE items I hope that the UK government will listen and reflect on that and change course before that VAT waiver is lifted so hopefully there will be some cross party support to make sure we can all encourage the UK Chancellor to do the right thing Thank you Tom, as ever it's a pleasure to answer questions to you and answering questions again in the very near future Many thanks