 Welcome. This is the Education Committee in the Vermont House of Representatives on Thursday, January 13. We are continuing our conversation about the state of our schools, however, our students, our faculty, our staff and our communities. And what are the things you would like us to do and what would the things that you would please like us to please not do this year. And I am welcoming, first, Jane Nichols from the Vermont Principles Association. Welcome. Thank you very much, Chair Webb. Good morning, House Education Committee members. As Chair Webb said, I'm Jane Nichols, Executive Director of the Vermont Principles Association for the Record. Here to testify today about how schools are doing in relationship to COVID and how the year's gone so far. My testimony is similar to testimony I gave in October and testimony I recently gave to the Senate with some updates. So, first of all, I want to predicate that my testimony is based on meetings I've had with principals since July, and that's over 100 principles that I've talked to. So I broke it up into the same buckets, Kate, that you had us do in October. The first thing is how are the children, staff and families and I just want to say and I'll submit written testimony as well. Children on average based on principles comments are struggling. As you know, there's a lot of issues around self-regulation at all levels but particularly disturbing in the younger grades, lack of maturity, which all is understandable given the fact that kids have had two years of an unreal experience. All this makes academic teaching very difficult for teachers, obviously. It's a partnership to meet the mental health and social emotional needs of our students. We need to eliminate silos in Vermont. We're very good at creating silos. We need to get all committees working together mental health working along with education, DCF working along with mental health to make sure that we're providing all kids with what they need. In my written testimony, I cite three different statements and I give a couple of links. And the big takeaway from that is that the American Academy of Pediatrics has labeled the public health, the mental health crisis, that an actual crisis that is now a national emergency. And three medical groups including the American Academy of Pediatrics recently released a report on that which I have attached in my written testimony. And really disturbing to me is that suicide attempts have risen. The number of ER visits for suspected suicide attempts, for example, by 12 to 17 year old girls, rose by 51% from early 2019 to early 2021. And that's according to the CDC. So those are national numbers. It's something that we're all very aware of and very, very worried about. In terms of principles, as you know, they're facing unprecedented challenges. The work that they've had to do so far is not sustainable. We're hoping that the changes in contact tracing and some of the responsibilities will make that a little bit easier. Principles are very worried about is this going to become the new normal. And it's cost to me members we've had four or five principles leave this year in the year I've never seen that happen before. I'm not going to judge that are just saying I'm hanging out to June, but then I'm probably going to walk away. So I'm very concerned about that I know that's true with teachers as well. Families of course are all over the place as you might expect. You've all heard about the issues with masking and anti vaccine parents and board meetings. We've also had some frustration more on a day to day level related to contact tracing, especially in situations where schools have sent home kids who have no symptoms and appear to be perfectly healthy. And of course that is now changing with the with the changes to contact tracing, contact tracing, the lack of a real statewide comprehensive cohesive response and maybe a mandate from the state like this looks like and allowing different schools to have different versions has made it difficult. And again, we are hopeful that the change to contact tracing that was recently announced will make things easier operationally and take some burden off of schools while ensuring probably most importantly that more students can be at school in person every single day. I already talked about contact tracing in terms of what is working what it's not. There are major staffing shortages as I know you're aware, fewer no substitutes, not just teachers support staff bus drivers paraprofessionals custodians that are level worse than ever before anyone's memory. I recently pinned op ed and digger. I've been a response about that asking people to reach out to volunteer in their schools and helping their schools and I had a parent reach out to me and say, I tried to reach out to my school and volunteer and I wasn't allowed to, because of fingerprinting. And it took so long I couldn't couldn't make it work. So, even when people want to help and do the right thing sometimes there's roadblocks to get in the way. This shortage is an acute immediate problem. And I'm worried about long term shortages as fewer people are going into education related jobs for a variety of reasons that includes teachers and administrators. As you know there's been issues with transportation, especially in terms of staffing and in some cases we've had to cancel school because we could not get the kids to school, because we could have enough bus drivers and we've had to cancel a lot of extra activities as well. Most principals are not able to serve as instructional leaders this year. The vast majority of the time is spent on management functions and getting things covered principles talk about every morning for the first hour hour and a half, they're usually meeting with people to say alright who's going to cover Jim today because the gym teachers got COVID or is out because of contact tracing. This is working. As I mentioned earlier in the year is that many schools have adults that are really bonding together. They're in survival mode but they're really working hard to support each other and most importantly supporting all the kids. I do want to mention that the work done in the area of SCL, and I put community schools into that bucket and after school programs and other programs that we do on a day to day basis and schools has been very helpful. I can't actually because I talked to directors in other states and we're in a lot better shape than a lot of people are. And I want to mention we are not in recovery mode. It's important to realize that we're still in survival mode, and many educators don't feel value the pension thing last year really hit hard people are very worried about that. So it's time at the legislative level to step up and completely support public education. This means making sure education fund dollars are being used in an effective way. We need to support our public schools and make sure education funds are not siphoned away by any groups or schools that discriminate against some of our children. That's a big issue for all of our groups that to prospect. And in terms of requests for legislative action or non action in 2022. I'd ask you to support the VPA retirement bill concept that allow educators to come out of retirement for one year to feel hard to fill positions. To me it's an easy win to win win win proposition because they would pay into the retirement system. We need to support any federal or other efforts that allow for schools to have four year olds and school full day for early kindergarten with corresponding FTE for Ed funding purposes I know that's tied to the president's bill. We hope that sometime that build back better gets across the finish line, especially in terms of early childhood, we are working with our national organizations to try to support that. And support any legislation that will provide financial assistance to educators at work and more economically depressed schools. If they did agree to stand those positions for a set period of time. This could take the form of support paying off student loans or extra enumeration. It's very hard in our rural schools to keep people. They often have teachers for a couple years and those teachers leave for higher paying jobs 20 miles further. That's more towards urban suburban areas. Make sure the state pays for any PCB testing mitigation measures so this doesn't become a budget killer for local school districts. Make sure that any work on Act 173 stays true to the major goals of that legislation, more flexibility for schools to better support students major reduction paperwork, focusing on serving kids and developing comprehensive student support systems. If you're going to add any legislation that puts more pressure and stress on school boards, superintendents, principals, teachers and support staff. This is a requirement is constantly growing without the corresponding support so please don't add anything unless you're going to take other things off the plate of educators or you add something new that's going to actually help make it learn, make the work more attainable. Lastly, please don't pass any laws that will further increase the divide between the haves and have nots. We need to make sure our poorest least resource school districts have access to high quality qualified educators, not just the districts with the most resources. There are a couple of bills being contemplated that would take would have an adverse effect on our most vulnerable students in schools. Please look at education related bills in terms of impact on our students first and foremost. Thank you and I take any questions and I can stay till 11 to answer questions with the others as well. I have a quick question for you. I'm not sure if the bill has come through yet and Amanda maybe you could check on that to see if the bill that allows teachers to come out of retirement has been introduced. And in the meantime, Jay Nichols who do you think we would need to be hearing from I'm assuming we need to be hearing from the Treasurer's office. About impact on pension. Yes, yeah. But other than that, just the usual subs suspects. Yeah I think so and I think everybody's certainly in support conceptually the idea of the devil's all in the details, we need to make sure that if somebody comes out of retirement. They're paying into the system with the new money that they're getting and they're paying into the system at the highest rate just like they're a new teacher. They're really helping the pension fund. And at the same time, they're not taking help by losing their retirement, and they're filling a position that we are really that we're not able to fill. Amanda, can you put that on our list. I'm going to see if the bill has been introduced or not yet. And I want to get to that fairly fairly soon. Representative Austin. Yep. Hi Jay. Just, could you be a little bit more specific about the bills that are being proposed that would further to buy the halves and half knots. Well, I want you to look at that lens for every bill and I'm glad to talk about any of them but there's one bill right now that's in general military affairs. And that would allow teachers to essentially become free agents in terms of contracts. And so the way that that bill would work. And I testified against this a couple years ago it was put forth by representative Townsend if I remember right I think it's representative Townsend again this year. And she's trying to make sure that teachers have more opportunities to leave schools to go for other schools for jobs and I understand where she's coming from. But the point is that the way that it's set up is that if I'm a superintendent and our principal and we hire a teacher and she signs a contract in April to teach for the following year. She would be able to go right up to the first day of school and interview for other jobs and walk away. And that just leaves our most vulnerable students hanging in the lurch. So if we need to, we can come up with some type of a window as a hiring season or something along those lines that we have to what we don't want to have is teachers leaving at the last minute or very, very late in the school. Late in the school year and having to be very impossible to find qualified people to take their places in the following school year. So that's one of those bills where people have good intentions. And they're trying to support the adults, but they're really hurting the kids if they don't really think it through. Just let us know what that bill number is and we'll keep track we'll keep an eye on it. Okay, I can I'll have to email you I can't remember I almost feel like it's 80 but I could be wrong. Okay. Thank you to Austin. Are you excited. I'm done. Okay. Thank you. Thank you for that question. Representative common. Thanks and Kate you can shut me off if you want to postpone this discussion till the bill actually comes before us but in the, in the issue of bringing folks out of retirement to work, which seems like a great idea but I do wonder. I'm just going to run into issues with the NEA, who might fear that school districts would hire somebody coming out of retirement because they don't have to pay medical and other benefits, necessarily. Let's save that question I think it's a really good one when we get to the bill. Thank you. Thank you, Jay. I just want to ask. When you say you know it's time for the legislature to step up and do everything to support schools and teachers totally agree. Is there anything more specific it's kind of like parents I think wanting to go in and volunteer in schools right now. There's not necessarily anything we can do except do no harm but just want to ask, you know, is there anything else that more specifically we can be doing. I mean there's some things that we're going to come to you with but for example, we passed a law last year that said that public schools had to follow certain rules for an elementary for exclusionary discipline and private schools didn't have to. We've also passed laws before that has have allowed private schools to receive public funds that discriminate against our kids now that's something that hopefully we're all working on together. That's a huge issue for us. And it should be a huge issue for everybody if public education is a public good being paid for by the public taxpayers that we need to assure that no students are discriminated against and that includes religious schools or independent schools and we've got some great independent schools that do a wonderful job of including all students. And they get public funds and our argument is that any independent school that gets public funds needs to include all schools, our students in their school. Because that's the overall theme representative Brady. And some of that is, I believe some some some of that was addressed in the 2200 rule I believe. We're working on the 2200 rule we have a subcommittee. Yeah, Sue is on that subcommittee. As am I, the Maryland my husky and Milmore, a couple other different independent schools. And I think we're close to some resolution on the 2200 rules. Representative Brown. Thank you. Are you hearing so we heard some testimony yesterday from the Vermont School Nurses Association about the changes that are being made to contact tracing are you hearing from your school communities that those adjustments are going to help lighten the burden on school staff in terms of the work that needs to be done around contact tracing I'm still trying I think I'm still trying to understand what that shift in workload looks like and if it is going to help. Yeah, I think I testified about that a little bit in this committee. The other day, but maybe I was in Senate had talking about I had to remember and the answer is our executive council talked about it and we're basically going to go wait and see approach. We're optimistic that it that it will help we know that what we were doing before was not sustainable. There was no way. So we're hopeful that it's going to help there's some fear out there. We'll parents be honest those types of things that people you know we constantly worry about. Whenever I hear Dr Lee speak, it gives me some hope because he'll say even if somebody's not doing the right thing. As long as everybody else is masking appropriately taking mitigation strategies we're all so much safer. So, to answer your question directly we're hopeful principles are an executive counselor optimistic. So what we're going to have to wait see it plays out we got to make sure there's plenty of tasks and there's high quality mask in our schools and I think if we can do those two things, it can work. Thank you. And we are reaching out to the AOE following the testimony we got from the nurses association about contact tracing that what we heard yesterday seemed to be in conflict with what the agency said so we're reaching out to get some clarification from the agency on that. We're also reaching out to get more information on where we stand with masks and and testing from AHS and the AOE. Any other questions for the principles. We can move on to the special ed administrators and welcome Darren McIntyre. Thank you for joining us for the record could you just state your name and position. Thanks chair web and committee members. I'm Darren McIntyre executive director for Vermont Council special ed administrators. Similar to Jay and in terms of an update. What I submitted was very similar to testimony back in October. There were some updates and some others that I'll share verbally as part of the testimony today. As many have commented both yesterday and and even with Jay's testimony. We continue to see shortages. Our association is tracking those. We know statewide. There's some whereas in the neighborhood of 1300 vacancies across a variety of different positions. Specific to our association. I've tracked over 350. Those are a combination of special educators related service providers. SOPs behavior intervention as Paris school psychologist. All contributing to what many have mentioned. As a continued crisis with the shortage of staff. I've just recently. The information that I got from our membership. Over 30 of our members across 30 supervisory unions they've averaged the equivalent of 10 full time equivalent positions or 10 FTS for vacancies. That's led to the need for coverage of various roles. As Jay mentioned, you know, while that continues to be a challenge, I think one positive to that is it has helped with opportunities for collaborative teaming. And I think when Jay talked about some of the silos. There's a greater appreciation in many cases for the duties as others cover. In some cases, general ed for special ed special ed for general ed. As Jay mentioned, some of the administrators covering for teaching positions. So I've heard many say, I have so much more appreciation for the role. Hopefully, I think chair Webby mentioned yesterday. Hopefully, once some of this starts to improve, we can see opportunities for a reckoning and more collaborative teaming on these items. In addition to the shortages. We've seen more recently, an increase in special ed referrals. And I think that's paired with a number of different items. As folks have mentioned, just a strain on overall mental health needs for students in addition to staff on a student level, or seeing increased referrals for that reason. There's a significant regression because of continued absences. That has paired with increased special ed referrals. And I think related to upcoming rule changes in this conversation about delay or implement on July one. So I think there are several parent advocacy groups. Putting out information to parents and guardians saying, do the referral now to special ed. And if they're not eligible. Wait until after July one and refer again. We've created sort of increased anxiety and stress on an already challenging set of circumstances. Wanted to talk in terms of an update on that conversation of the implement or delay. And I think that discussion has no formal recommendation we continue to not have a consensus across our membership on that. That said, over 70% of our members continue to stress the need for a delay due to the various circumstances that we're talking about and the effects of the pandemic. So I think there's a contrast agreement with the intent of the law and the policy and want that to be heard to the committee. I think that has created sort of a level of irony where it's pushed many to say, we believe in the intent of Act 173 so strongly that we want to do it well. And that's a result field and needed pressure to delay. And I think Megan talked about many of the advantages and disadvantages that and her testimony yesterday, and her role as the chair of the subcommittee, reviewing some of the items related to that. Paired with what I just said, there's sort of a sense of if it goes into effect July one. We're almost going to see a reverse of the intent of the law with increased special ed referrals and increase in special ed service. And in many cases, you know, we've heard from Jeff and three of the superintendents yesterday and their testimony we know roughly 50% of the s us under that current waiting proposed formula and finance model 50% would probably have an advantage financially with that and the others would see a negative impact. And I think that in itself is also driving this conversation of if it goes into effect. It's roughly five months for guidance from AOE, and we're not. We're not seeing that in many cases. And, you know, I'm grateful and respectful for opportunities to collaborate and provide input from our membership with AOE and establishing expectations for those items but in many cases. Those are absent and void, and along with the shortages. There's that fear that there's just no opportunity for training come July one. So that in itself will lead to again potentially more referrals more financial impact of students on IEP's you know I guess I would add. In addition to that, we're continuing to collaborate with many of the key stakeholders around steps, regardless of whether there is an implementation or delay. We're trying to work with some of the, some of the districts that are further along and MTSS readiness and models for that. We want to be able to collaborate and scale those up whenever possible to help with preparation. Again, it's hard to do that if staff are covering all their duties and just no capacity for that. Chair Webb mentioned yesterday. Many of the special ed directors and le as had systems in place. Those were canceled. Some of the presenters themselves tested positive more able to engage other special education staff related personnel wouldn't have been able to participate so just the impact of a presence of staff. There's a need to cancel many of the trainings that would have been needed to implement. You know I think the other is steps to develop ways to mitigate the financial impact. And again testimony was provided yesterday on advantages disadvantages. Overall our members are saying we feel fairly confident that there's ways to mitigate over time the financial impact but the concern is we really need a delay because we can't recover from impact on educators and students well being loss of learning. So, again, the irony is, argues if the implementation is done well with 173 and these upcoming real changes around adverse effect and SLD identification, then there's going to be greater soon outcomes, instructional outcomes well being mental health related outcomes, systemic outcomes, and overall measures for tier one instruction and access for all students. But we're asking I guess ultimately for ways to support funding. It is going to go into effect for training. Some have existing methods through teacher master agreements where more formal training is needed and credit based coursework. So they're thinking of using idea be funds to support that, and not knowing, you know where things will go with financial impact for those 50 potential supervisor unions that may have. As we heard from john castle in north country, $2 million deficit. I'm not sure where training funds are going to come from, even if there are staff and and content available so support from the committee to find ways to fund financially, the training mentoring for all the items that we're talking about related to recruitment and retention with the shortage. And then, you know I heard, again, advantages and disadvantages of sort of phasing in potential delays, and I think the biggest impact, if we're moving forward with MTSS implementation and act 173 are the additional real changes around the risk of fact and as I'll do that on occasion so if there's a mechanism to slow that. I think it's going to compound the ability to do both at the same time. We would ask for considerations to be given around the timing of those. I'll stop there and see if there's questions. Thank you. Very helpful. Thank you so much for your response on 173. If I remember correctly, the, the adverse effect rule goes in July one. We might want to talk with a little more about that. Another time. Thank you. And we have any questions for the special administrators at this point. We time at the end also. Okay, seeing none. Jeff Francis. Welcome back. Good morning. Hello committee. Let me start with an audio check. Am I coming through okay. You're okay. Okay, if at any point I am not just signal me and I'll shut off the video. I do high speed internet with a mile of the state house, but still sometime experience problems. I'm going to suggest you turn it off now because it's just a little wobbly. Okay. Is that better. Yes. Okay. Thank you very much and I'll turn my camera back on for the questions if you have any. I'm going to start by thanking you for your leadership and commitment to delving into this issue. The challenges that have been brought to Vermont, the world, I guess the country and in this case specifically the education community are formidable. The testimony this morning is going, it's based on a meeting that two superintendent leaders, Jean Collins from Rutland Northeast, and Libby bone steel from Montpelio Roxbury had with the Senate Education Committee yesterday, excuse me last week. That testimony was a compilation of thoughts and considerations that we collected from a number of superintendents who serve on the VSA Board of Trustees. The first thing that those superintendents spoke about last week and I'll speak about this morning is just a high level of anxiety that's been brought to the education community by everything that's involved with the navigation of the pandemic. I think that you all are very familiar with that due to a combination of your own experiences and what you've heard from others. But we think that the nature and impact of the pandemic can't really be overstated. In many ways, the anxiety, anxiety levels are attributable to the experiences that people have positionally in terms of their own family, the school systems with it in which they work, the education system overall, and a lot of it has to do with the need to make changes in the communications around those changes. So at the beginning of last week, there was a high level of anxiety due to the return from school break. By the end of last week, we had information about the protocol changes that were being announced as we made the shift from Delta implications and impacts to Omicron implications and impacts. And everyone knows when we got back to work on Monday, there was a tremendous amount of anxiety, a lot of media coverage. In my mind, those manifestations are a product of the navigation of the pandemic, and really can't be attributed to, and I'm not saying that anybody is asserting this but sort of no will or bad actions on anybody's part. And yet there's a lot of energy around, you know, criticisms of the movement forward and so on and so forth. Now we're at a point where people have spoken more about the reasoning behind that change. And I think that the change is better understood, but a lot of the anxiety that was with us as a result of the pandemic persists. So the point there is that anxiety levels are high and are going to continue to be high. And we've got so many people on the front lines of this. You heard from the nurses yesterday, teachers in the classroom, family and children in their homes. But I think that collectively we're all hoping for some relief if Omicron does in fact run its course. But I think that for the time being the anxiety is with us and that's going to have profound effects. So that was one theme that we talked about last week and I'm speaking about today. Another theme is staffing capacity. And I know that you're fully aware of that I, I get examples every day in communications from school systems that either I'm directly the recipient of or that I'm copied on that just talk about the major implications of not enough staff. And as you know that affects school districts abilities to remain open and just has profound effects in the communities where staffing capacity results in the need to close the school or where shortages and staffing capacity cause people to, and this is literal, get no rest. So that's something else that that superintendents are talking about. And when I get to the recommendation section I'll refer back to it's, it's very, very challenging to have immediate solutions to any of these things but I do think that there can be a plan for thought process and there are going to be lessons learned out of this pandemic for mid and long term actions that we can take in order to address these issues. Both in the near immediate future and also over time. Student behavior, which is a recurring theme I think from all the witnesses and when I say student behavior. It's not an assertion that that it's a responsibility of the students that it really goes to their own existence within an unstable environment, which has been brought to us by the pandemic. And the superintendents who spoke last week in the Senate Education Committee took particular note and they have firsthand awareness of this and expertise I do not that in particular grades. It's being noticed more than others and the grades that they cited were kindergarten eighth grade and ninth and 10th grade, where they're seeing less stability than in typical years. And in the conveying those thoughts, superintendents indicated that schools don't have the capacity to deal with the dramatic increases in mental health and other behavioral needs. So that plays out in a number of ways including putting more pressure on the systems overall, but it should not be lost that the pressure that's being felt is being felt by by the students. So what is a very stable construct normally for kids with predictability and so on and so forth has become less so as a result of the pandemic. And thus the emphasis as we work through the covert navigation that we do everything we can to keep schools open in order to provide that stability but of course there's a contest there. Because there's also concerns about the well being of staff and what they've endured. There's no real solution here but it's an observation that's been made in the context of the current state of our schools. A point that I made when I testified back in October that's been reiterated is one thing that the General Assembly can do is to sharpen its awareness with regard to all of these things and I compliment you for the effort that you're putting into to doing that, both in the context of yourselves your communities, the state the General Assembly overall, but, but you know, the, the request that has been made for no new initiatives that will add burden or complexities is a very serious one. I think that that's well understood. In this committee, we know that the origins of legislation can come from any one of 180 legislators and to extent and you've signaled this this morning chair web that the House Education Committee can function as a gatekeeper to make sure that the that the very well benefited pieces of legislation that could add burden may not find their way to fruition in this general in this legislative session I think is deeply appreciated but as has been alluded to and stated directly by other witnesses. There's a bunch of things going on that need to be tended to that create a from a public policy standpoint. Big agenda in the category of unfinished work. You just spent 15 minutes talking with Darren about Act 173 we know how complicated that is at this juncture. We know that right this moment other committees in the State House or the virtual State House are working on the important matter of the waiting study which is a, I'd say it's a colossal public policy issue right now. I spent almost two hours yesterday, speaking with 40 plus facilities managers representatives of the Department of Health of the Agency of Education and the Department of Environmental Conservation talking about school facilities issues alone. Any one of those main topics could occupy all our time. And here we are treating them as, you know, not ancillary measures but measures that are taking time, even as we contend with all of the factors that that, as I said have been brought to us by the pandemic that have real influence and impact on the ground. So while I'm redundant in these messages I'm redundant because I don't think that what I'm saying can be stated strongly enough. We were also asked by the Senate Education Committee to talk with them about what we believe the General Assembly can do to be helpful. As I just completed first and foremost, we want to make sure that we have a light year legislatively, while turning into I think that the responsibilities that are already on the table. We agree with the VPA and others that the legislation that would allow retired educators to augment the education workforce should be treated as an imperative. Superintendent Collins, who spoke in the Senate Education Committee last week, talked about the fact that in one classroom in one grade in her school system. They've changed teachers three times and they're about to need to change for the fourth. And that's attributable to the fact that people currently have limited capacity to work if they're in a retirement status and want to come back. I don't know how much that's happening from school system to school system across the state, but in terms of the ability to temporarily provide relief to bring stability to school systems currently, if we could get a law enacted that would allow folks to return to work if they're retired without penalty. We do think that there's promise in terms of greater stability under that approach. I want to compliment the General Assembly for the very rapid action that it took around procedures for annual school district and town meetings. So the testimony that I'm referring to right now thematically was delivered on the first day of the session. And here we are just a little more than a week and a half later and the bill to address town meeting issues. It's on its way to the governor for signature if it hasn't been signed already. In that vein or category, I think you've probably either experienced or read in media accounts that there's been a period of time for school board members were conducting their meetings has been challenging because of COVID and other factors. But there's a bill that's being considered that would allow for remote operation of regular school board meetings without having to maintain a physical location to conduct those meetings entirely virtually. We support that that also looks like it will be received favorably by the General Assembly. I don't know what the status of that bill is today but that's something that was cited as being particularly useful. In terms of the worker shortage and this is a longer term need. We think a focus on and I know your committee has discussed it what measures can be taken to induce more stability in the delivery system by having more people interested in serving public education would also be helpful. And then finally in terms of the testimony that was offered last week. Thematically there was a big emphasis on mental health supports for children. And to the extent that there's an ability to focus on how we can enhance mental health supports for children both through the public education system and through designated agency and other measures. That's a need that is likely to persist for quite some time so from a system standpoint. And I know that you're focused on this in the past and are focused on it currently but that is really a necessary body of work. I'm going to wrap up here in a second and I'll answer questions. But I wanted to respond to the questions that were are being considered right now with regard to the changes in protocols with take home testing. As opposed to contract tracing and test to say. Initiatives in schools that the current transition as it were. And like the VPA superintendents are eager to see all the guidance with respect to that transition. I've heard Commissioner Levine and Secretary French talk about the rationale and also Dr. Lee about the rationale for the change. The rationale makes sense. I think that there is a the most important element of that transition other than the logistics is communicating the you know the the reasons why and how it will occur. But our association does rely on the experts in the public health field. We support those and logistically the changes that are made are being are being played out in public schools. And I think that's one of the reasons why schools have really risen to the occasion. They're being asked to rise to the occasion one more time so communicating the how and the why is extraordinarily important. And I would add just one point that I think is probably familiar to the committee. One of the things that we learned when we learned that guidance was that there may be some deemphasis on staff within schools in terms of their ability to obtain tests themselves and participating touch tasting in their lives. And what was referenced by superintendents is the fact that we need to make sure that we've got stability in the workforce by making sure that they are as well situated and I don't know any other term to use then comfortable as possible. And I think that even through the shifts that are going to take place operationally. We need to make sure that we're highly responsible to the workforce in terms of making them as confident as possible that they're that requires real clear explanations, understandings and access to resources that will provide that confidence that they are working in the safest possible environment. So with that, I will pause. I'll turn my camera back on and I'll answer questions, if you have any. I understand that you, you meet with the secretary on a fairly regular basis and help to speak with him about this guidance. Are you able to help in delivering the guidance so that it will be more accessible to the field to actually understand. You know complex times as complex communication is changing a lot. Everybody's anxiety is high just to help with the way the messages are delivered that obviously that the message is important but the delivery of the message is also important. Do you, are you able to provide him feedback. You know what I would say is, and I thought about this over the course of the last week. And as I've, as I said ad nauseum in my testimony this is extraordinarily challenging and there's nothing perfect about it. Secretary French communicates with individual superintendents on a daily basis with regard to challenges that come up in their systems. He also meets with superintendents every Thursday at two o'clock and sort of runs down what's transpiring. He prefaces those meetings by saying that what transpires verbally shouldn't be construed as written guidance. The guidance will be construed as the guidance the guidance will come in written form. And that's because the communicators and state government, you know they're operating in two directions they're communicating with the field but there's also a decision making apparatus and state government that they participate in. The answer your question is a qualified yes right so we're able to give the secretary feedback about, you know, our impressions and responses to what's happening. He's got another set of limitations and conditions that he needs to respond to. But the answer your question is yes, the other thing and I thought about this a lot over the last week to where we have now I think 117 school districts in Vermont. There are 51 supervisory unions there's those three independent tech center districts. You know, to the extent that we regard public education as an ecosystem as it were, every one of those districts and in some instances schools are ecosystems on their own. With, you know, different compliments of teacher, different socio economic and demographics of kids, different socio economic and demographics of communities. So, so part of the complication is, you know, the challenge of the pandemic overall but also how anything plays out in any given community. You know, I've taken too much time in a long winded response. So yes, we do have an opportunity to provide feedback. I think there are limitations, even with that feedback on how decisions get made. And a lot of this plays out community to community household to household it's it's you know it's the nature of, I think what a crisis is. So I've spoken too long on that but those are my thoughts on it. Okay, thank you very much. I'm aware of the time I want to see if there are any questions at this point.