 Two applications tonight, before we start, I'm going to ask members of the board to introduce themselves starting with our zoning minister. Tom Bedowski. John Frieder. And I'm Chair, Bob Warnick. Karla Neuropsen. Shane Mispel. So we have an application for a boundary line adjustment about the bill to deal, and Michael Wobby? Vaux Palme. Vaux Palme. Yeah, much better. Anyway, kill on the side, everybody. Watch. I'll swear if you want to. Yeah, OK, sorry. I was going to ask, is there anybody here that wants to be a party of interest to this application, other than the applicants? Hearing none, we'll proceed then by swearing in the witnesses. We tend to get witnesses before this board tonight. Do you swear to tell the truth and not to tell the truth? You can ask me before this board tonight. I'm a pet lizard person. I do. I do. So it's a boundary line adjustment. We have the application. Would you explain your application for us, please? Sure. Can everybody? Oh, you've got a copy. OK. And before you speak, because this is going to be, the minute is going to be recorded by somebody that's not here present tonight. OK. So if you could introduce yourself when you speak, it would be helpful. The question is that your back is to the camera. Sure. So Mike Volpel, there's an oddball piece of Phil's property that is separated really from his property, really more of my property, adjacent to my property. And we're just looking to move it from his to mine. I guess that's about all there is. It's about two and three acres. Yeah, two and three quarters acres, I believe. And I guess the old Lewis farm, when it was divided up, they chopped it up in a ways that you look at it now and it almost doesn't make sense in some ways the way these parcels were dangling. And I think years ago, Bob and Linda Green got a piece of that. And this was a dangling piece above the Squire Drysdale, which I think was the old camp lookout that was there years ago. And then there's another piece across the road for me that is not on this map, but is also another parcel that I own. Oh, is that over here where your garden is? Yeah. It's on the pond side. Mike, you offer three colored coated maps for part of your application. You want to maybe go through the sequencing what each one means, represents? Sure. Sure. This is the section in question of two and three quarters acres. This shaded in red is what Phil and Ellen currently own. Is their lot and my lot to the blue. And then after the proposed movement, a boundary adjustment, mine would be the blue and Phil's is the red. So it's a big comment by the building minister. At the end of the day, both lots, the two revised lots will meet zoning regulations for highland conservation, which is five acre minimum lot size. So that it meets that. Of course it's by number of four. Yeah. I would assume it doesn't change setbacks either. It looks like what's done is would have no real impact. I can't imagine. There's no structures on the current green piece. Right. Yeah. Exactly. The Squires Bridesdale property structure is located where? Their house is pretty much center on their piece right here. The boundary line is what boundary line was before. Oh, yeah. None of that changes. Yeah. So you're not creating a new lot. No heavy, no negative impact on the setbacks. Is this all 1D, your land? It is 1D. It's interesting because is it actually contiguous or is it a separate? You know, when I came to Tom last year and asked Tom about this, it was odd because in the map I've had, I know where this is from, it's just, it's odd the way they laid it out when I first bought the property. This is, and this is the Squires, and this is the lot we're questioning now, and this is awesome, but this is a separate, this piece also is in the deed. So it's this piece, this piece, and that piece. And as I said, the Lewis farm originally I think had this piece, and I just don't know where else it went way back. What I can attest to is that on Mike's current property boundary adjustment map, these two shaded and red share the same parcel number. It's the same parcel number. That leads me to believe that it's a parcel. Even though they don't seem to be directly connected. Maybe at a point. There's a point. Is this the same parcel also? I mean, it's not affecting this at all, but is that the same parcel also? It's across the street from you? I think that's a separate parcel. Okay. 26. Yeah. 26. Yeah. Mm-hmm. So this boundary adjustment will not result in creating a non-conforming lot or non-conforming. Correct. That's correct. I'm sort of reading our definition of boundary line adjustment. Yeah. Make sure we don't violate it. Similarly, we have the same thing. See, it's not covered in either ordinance. It's covered by exception. In the definitions, it says a boundary line adjustment is not the subdivision, it's not because it is, as long as it meets certain criteria, whichever the point of the moment. Any other questions? No. I think it's pretty straightforward to me. The thing we don't have here is we don't have a survey. We're working with property maps from previous subdivision. A condition of approval would be we would require a registered speed survey by registered land surveyor. Yeah, I'm on the agenda for chase and chase. Chase and chase, yeah. And then if we recorded over the 180 days and that could be transferring the property, also really important during the 180 days, that's not a good point. That's very requirement. Bob, I also talked to Phil and I'm like you weren't present that they may want to, they should contact agency natural resources for wastewater just to make sure that there's no impact on their existing wastewater permits. Right. That's right. Another condition of this permit will be you have to have wastewater and water supply approval from the agency natural resources. What you would probably do is get it deferral permit and I don't know if they would require you to put in a replacement field or not. They're probably not put it in, but designed one, have one designed. Are you familiar with that? No. Yeah. To subdivide, they may treat you as, because you really are trying to separate a lot over there by yourself, but they may say that you're really not subdividing your property, you know, this is not affecting you. So we don't know what they do, but we'll need that permit from them as a condition of this permit. Okay. And so to say it would be I would be filing for deferment if you're not supposed to develop that plot. Mm-hmm. So the portion that's being treated off, it's not affected really, except for you need deferment for it. The question is whether or not they'll require you to have design for the replacement field if you don't have one already. Okay. Your field's nowhere near that long, is it? No. No. That's all upstream. That's a couple hundred feet above me. Well, a hundred feet. So anyway, that would be two commissions that would be out of your permit. Okay. All right. Anybody have anything by missing it? No. So if the board gives us approval, then it's pending those two conditions in 180 days, and then if satisfied, then it just, there's no other hearing. It just passes over Tom's desk. In other words, he can't issue the permit until you demonstrate to him about the conditions. Okay. We'll have our findings of facts, which we'll issue in some time in the future after minutes are recorded and the minutes are approved, then we'll find those facts. But we do issue conditional permits that you'll get a permit for us that becomes fully valid when the conditions are met. Okay. Okay. 180 days to get all the correct work done. Is that going to be a problem? Not at all. I mean, it's going to move faster than that. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. You never know. You don't, but we'll make the phone call. Yeah. Definitely. The first, which is called Carl. The helpful one. I will. Yeah. I don't know what to do. Okay. Anybody have any additional questions? I'm going to close here. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Hi. Hi. How are you? So the next item on our agenda today is just a date and a year copy of LLC. Yes. It's application for initial use, as opposed to a copy of LLC Enterprise. Yes. And I can get, would you agree if you run again when I explore it, but again? I do not. I don't know if I was supposed to do it. I'll be happy to do it. I usually tell you to do a group thing, but that's all right. He's right about group. I'm going to tell you about the group for this board tonight. I do. I won't. Paul Dayton. I live in East Montpelier, and I am starting a new coffee roasting business, very small, just me. Left the public schools after 10 years, looking for something completely different. And I'm an avid coffee drinker and know a few people, as many people are, and it's a nice little niche business that's catching on in Vermont. There's a number of small coffee roasters around, like 802 Coffee in town, Bohemian Bakery in town. He roasts out in East Calis, Carrier Coffee in Northfield. And there's a couple in Waitsfield. There's a few in Burlington. And I'm not looking to be the next Green Mountain Coffee Roasters. I'm just looking to do a cool artisan little roastery myself. And I have put a deposit on this space with Jason Merrill to have that as my roastery. I would have one roaster there, a Deedrick IR-5, which can roast about 10 pounds at a time. And I have a small sample roaster that I've been roasting at home that roasts just a half a pound at a time. So a typical big roaster, they have roasters that will roast 1,000 pounds at a time. It's not going to be a cafe at all, just a roastery. I did write in my application that I would like to be able to have people drop by and buy a bag of beans, but I'm not going to have any signage out front. It would be, they'd have to contact me through my website or phone like, are you around? Can I come by a bag of beans? But it's not going to be a retail store front, not set up that way, just a roastery. Delivery-wise, I think I would, I can't foresee more than one, maybe two deliveries a week of green coffee beans. I don't know because I haven't done this before, but you buy your beans somewhat in bulk but you got to keep your inventory fresh. I'm just aiming to sell 100 pounds of coffee a week and get to that in my first six months and hopefully get to 200 pounds a week at the end of the year to be sustainable for a small roaster. Just waiting to hold. Can I just ask a question? Is this just because the use is not and what do we consider the use to be? What do we call it? Light manufacture. Let's try to figure out why we're hearing, what we're doing. Why it's traditional? Isn't that an industrial? You know it's non-commercial. Okay. Light manufacturing. Light manufacturing is a traditional use. Okay. Yeah. I'm back there right now. There's a metal forge furniture maker, a cabinet maker back in the same complex. That's why it's traditional. But you'll be in the new building that he's put in. The new... Nope. You're in the old building. I thought he was buying the new one. No, it's in the new one. Ben and the... I don't know the name of the cabinet maker. Ben's taking one of the new ones right next to him I think the propane people who are in one of them are taking one of them. I thought it was confusing. From cyclans right now, what are you doing? I'll probably be able to decipher. This is all Jason's stuff. So... I'm just going to cover that mic. Sorry. It must be this one, right? Okay, it's right here. You're actually welcome to come over here this year. Okay. Okay. So... It's... Right in here. This is the new building. This one in the middle. It's behind the U-Haul space. There's some self-storage right here. It's not over there in that building? That's existing. Well, it is existing. He's built it. You're not in this one. He just recently obtained permission to build two new buildings. There are two buildings to the most southerly part of the property on that drawing. Would you point that out to him, please? Those two buildings you could not be moving into because they're conditioned upon water and wastewater. Oh, okay. Which you will not have for probably two more years. So you have to be in the... You must be in one of the existing structures. Okay. So you're not in the big one. You're in the small one. So I thought it was going into an existing one. Okay. That was not clear because a lot of your answers are dependent upon whether or not it's a new building or whether it's a new building. Okay. So this is really a change of years. Correct. This is the new building. What was in that part of the building before? It hasn't been anything. It's existing, but I'm going to be the first tenant. Okay. He's moving slow. That's why I'm finishing. I'm finishing everything. We can trust that the price is right. I don't know. I think so. It's new. It's clean. So, okay. So the... What's your other general question? I'll figure out where you're going to be. Number one is the existing building. Number two is... It's been there for a while. Yeah. You said new construction. Oh. Well, I... That's okay. Forget it. Okay. Apologies. Okay. So... You responded to the criteria. We appreciate that. But I have a number of questions. Sure. Before we do that, Tom, did you have anything to add? Well, this... Paul's a co-applicant, which the owner, Jason Merrill, Jason sent me a note today saying that Paul can speak on his behalf on anything pertaining to this matter. Because Paul is the owner, he acts as the applicant. Co-applicant, say. I call him a co-applicant. They both get a permit. The names are both on both. They're both a name. The reality is it has to be the property owner. The rights goes with the property. Unless you're going to have a financial interest in the building rather than rent. No. So this is an existing building and you're moving into a fortress for a new maker. You indicate that no new traffic is envisioned. Why do you say that? You will have delivery trucks. Yeah. But no more than... Well, obviously, one truck comes for me that... Yeah, that's a new bit of traffic. But it's not... It's in this area that has self-storage. It has a furniture maker, a cabinet maker. It's... I don't think it's going to change any kind of flow or anything. The UPS truck comes in there once or twice a week. Maybe one in the future. I don't in the immediate future in this first year. And I really don't see ever having more than one employee. How much square feet are you running? It's 17 by 32. 544. Thank you. And will the business own any vehicles? Will the business own any vehicles? No. Not right now. You'll have to work and... You'll be making deliveries. I will be making deliveries in my private car. It's the employee or it's the delivery person. Yeah. It's also the employee. I'm everything. It's what self-employed means. Yeah. Thank you. Yeah. You already clarified the number of trips you think you'll be getting deliveries. Once a week. That I would get deliveries? Yeah. Yeah, I imagine once a week. You'll be making deliveries. I hope to just make a trip to either UPS or the post office once a week. Maybe twice a week. So not actually doing the deliveries just allowing UPS or whoever to... Right. Making coffee. And freshness is the key. So if I'm roasting on Wednesday, shipping Thursday I might make deliveries to some accounts, restaurants, stores, etc. So you envision online retail more than local retailing of the product? I don't know at this point. Egg, borough, and steel as far as the way to sell it. There's a number of people stopping by. And I just I'm not going to push that part of it. Because it requires you to be there and give you something else. Right. Exactly. And roasting, if I'm the only one there I have to be wed to my machine pretty much. I can do it between roasts. But a roast takes about 15 minutes. And you really have to wait 15 minutes. But that's not long for someone to wait if they were there. But again, I'm not I'm not pushing for that to be a major part of my business. And you've registered that for anything? Yes, I have. Yeah. I've talked to the health department about what I have to do to be up to code for a food processor. What do you have that you require? The roaster needs an 8 inch double lined exhaust much like a commercial kitchen application. But it doesn't require one of those big hood events. It's going to go right through the, Jason wants me to go straight through the ceiling. He'd rather have that LSV fuels is going to do my propane. The roaster's propane heats with propane and they will have talked to them a couple of times including today and they're going to vent that they're going to order all the proper material. They have the installation guide and they're comfortable with it. Before I go through the vision criteria any other questions? I guess one question, you mentioned there was no signage. It seems to me that you want to have something at least for delivery. I'll have something on my entry door. I'll have no street. So for example, how will UPS find you when they have a new driver? I'm just the address on the building to get to the right side. I'm just worried. I have not looked to see if the address that Jason has given me is actually out there somewhere. If it isn't, we'll put an address on the building. If you do want to put a sigh on the building, I would imagine you would want to do that. Yeah, I think I envision just putting it on the window on my entry door just. You'll need it from that front. It's on the administrative side. Yeah, okay. It's on a window. It has to be a certain size. I don't know. I'll pop my head. Yeah, just real good. Okay, so going through the vision criteria I do have one other burning question. Burning? That's not good for coffee roasting. You don't want to burn it unless you like really dark ones. What type of roast? What types of roast? Well, I'm going to have a Well, I'm going to have your typical light, medium, and dark. I'm going to source my beans mostly from what they call single origin farms. So developing a relationship with a particular farm. So I know that I'm supporting a particular farm and the way they grow it. There's a lot of middle people out there who sell the beans. And I haven't inked a relationship with one of them yet. I'm shopping. There's a I was at Remney School the last four years, one of the Remney parents. He's a manager of a business called Cooperative Coffee and he has about 25 cafes and roasters that he the middle man buys beans. He's all about fair trade. So I can go on. I'm going to roast delicious coffee. I've been practicing with a really nice watermelon. As long as you're asking those kind of questions though, I have to ask, what does big gear refer to? Well, to kind of it will be getting gear, but my roast names are going I'm an avid mountain biker. So my roast names will have some mountain biking connotations and with my online marketing, I'm going to go after the mountain bike community. Like one of my roasts is going to be called uphill grind. One will be downhill flow. Stuff like that. There's single track mountain biking where you're just rooting for one bike. That could be my monthly single origin special. That would be cool. Sounds good. Safety of vehicle and pedestrian circulation on site, any adverse impacts on the pedestrian's feet or memory. And you're really told that you're not anticipating to generate much traffic? No, I'm not. Probably no more. I don't know who the previous tenant of that building was. It wasn't. It wasn't? I believe it was. I got it. I know it was. I've got a note from I've got a note from the engineer Don Marsh saying that there was more traffic with the facility that left there than will be this one. I think it wasn't auto, something with auto. That's what I'm thinking about. So, you're not anticipating any significant additional traffic. The adequacy of circulation parking and loading facilities, and where you're going to be on the site, you're really going to come in directly to the people in the parking corner of your building. There are existing parking spaces there now. There's this room for two cars and I'm pretty certain I can park my vehicle elsewhere if I need to leave space for two. Okay. You've got 500 square feet and that building is so 5,000 square feet. Are you right on the end here with this little unit marked? Nope. In this one. You're in that when you got into a small portion? Yes, a small portion. There's four big garage doors there. One of them. Okay. And deliveries to UPS type deliveries. Yeah. Plenty of them for UPS to navigate in there. So, existing parking should be at the loading will be primary to the front door. Yeah. And again, I have a big garage door. I'm assuming the property is going to be maintained by the owner? Yes. I have that right here if you need to see that. Okay. Just verify it here. I didn't know if you had plans for like two or three employees at that point. You've indicated bikes with a pedestrian access which are next criteria and you're not proceeding any prominent. No. Again, because I'm not going to have any kind of signage on Route 12. So, I'm not trying to draw people in at all. There is some bikes with traffic through there. Yeah. Landscaping? You're not proposing any of this landscaping? Nope. And then on the hours of operation you're going to be at 7.30 to 5.30? Yep. I definitely want to do this. This is an existing structure so it does not really affect setbacks. How does it see external lighting? Did you anticipate adding lighting? Jason has put lighting at each unit and I believe it's adequate. So you're not adding? No, I'm not. Your text makes it sound like there's new lighting. You rely on it. I'm not there. It should be just fine. If I'm moving faster, I'm going to just follow it. Strong motor drainage will be no change because you're not adding anything. You're not creating anything in this area and you've indicated that. Utilization of renewable energy resources go intact. Missing services. Do you have a slide, Wolf? I ran it by Chief Wolf. He had no issues with it. It's a state highway. I just recently got an LOI so I did not run it by them and I did not hear from Chief Wolf though he didn't. He did not, Chief Wolf didn't respond to when the new application was being sent. Okay. And since this is conditional use in responding to this when you spoke to the conditions with your traffic on roads and highways minimal passing existing planned community there came no changes to these. This is much for the benefit of the reporting center. It's not here. You said C is on the application but I believe it's not in the flood hazard area therefore it's not relevant. It is not in the flood hazard area. Thank you. And you indicated before we begin explaining to the board this would be light industrial manufacturing. Which is conditional use. How is that blended? What else is going on there? The manager maker and the cabinet maker who are back there. Is there a candlestick maker? No. Um and we're hidden behind there and no one I mean you could drive by there a thousand times and not know we're back there. You might smell it. Yeah. Telling on that. That would be nice. And my and the fellows who went back there they're excited to have a rooster back there. Coffee drinkers as well. And bylaws in effect as I said this is a conditional use. This is a criteria for commercial zone. So bylaws in effect. Do you have anything else more to add to your application? No. Move that in close. Motion has been made. Seconded. Is there any discussion on motion? I'll take that motion. Can you see if I can say no? It's closed. We'll do this process. We will issue findings. They have to be approved first. This will only be there in two weeks. It takes a little period of time. What's the findings? They are what they say. They would probably copy the right commitment of the name. Thank you very much. Thank you, Paul. Good night. You'll get a copy of those findings. Thanks. I wonder if you all get some coffee. A carrier. They're in Northfield. Oh well. There's that too. You need coffee. I saw a sign in Maine and said move over coffee. This is a job for alcohol. You know those block signs that they sold all the same. It's in Maine. Alright. Next item on our agenda is the approval of the minutes of our last meeting. I had a number of comments on those minutes. I don't know if anyone else does. Sorry? She's still looking to be reporting. Yep. Oh that's right because it's for her. Yes. First I'll ask anyone else to have any comments on those. Nope. Yeah. It was, I thought first time out of course you did a very good job. Is it safe? But there's nothing wrong with that. It's not. I did want her to clarify that the defense has not approved the two accesses a visual letter of approval. Which application? That's in the very first paragraph under RGN properties. And she gets it correct later on but she says here they have approved what they have issued, a visual LOI letter of intent which implies they're going to approve it. It's not the same thing. And it was also condition about closing an access and I said I wanted her to add that. No. So not only did it approve the two accesses but it was really condition about closing the other one. That's the important part of that. So I wanted to add that again paragraph A below she talks about the letter and I just wanted to have my letter because it has a very specific meaning. She's probably not aware but there was a ruling some time ago by the each transportation that at least how they would proceed in the law that we can't proceed without an LOI. It's statute correct. So we cannot issue a permit less as an LOI. Oh. It went state and highways or back. You can't even do it. We can do a condition but it has to be there and whatever conditions are in that LOI so it's a mistake for us to be here without an LOI. The other comment I had for her and I've already shared these with her and I'm running them by you because we don't approve minutes except for the public meeting and that is the she had spoke to the character of the area affected by a loss of effect and those are conditions criteria and this was not a condition which one again? How are these properties? No, it was not. Not conditions. It was site plan. So those were not necessary so we should believe those. And I wanted to clarify the waste water permit. She talks about what it covers because LOI one is being reduced it really isn't because LOI one is being reduced it's because they need a replacement field and they also need a deferment on LOI one. And I jump through the other application and apologize and I'll speak to the great champion application and she had been plowing to the end of the property line and I believe it was clear that they plowed to some point beyond this property line with this turnaround in a band. Yup. So I just had one last comment having to deal with the she indicated what we decided not to do in the session and that's inappropriate just yes, yes as you said and she didn't indicate the time because I don't know if you had you probably had the times on camera but she did not indicate the time at least helpful for us to know the time we were going to the session and the time we came out of the session that proved that in the future. So those are my comments they're pretty non-material they seem reasonable. I guess the first one just curious it seems like it's supplemental information as to why someone else makes a decision I don't know you were saying it's kind of nice that it's succinct is it necessary to add that kind of information from our perspective? That was a commentary point Yeah I'm using Carla Carla will actually repeat the same item several times repeat the same same paragraph Yeah So it's really a style thing style So nothing was missing I'm sort of judging the first half of my course to see if there are any non-small but there are the rest of my field Just that one comment So I would make the most of it I'll give you minutes for some of those Sorry I'll second on that note Most of them have been made in a second There's not a lot of enthusiasm Varying degrees Varying degrees To conclude the minutes of July 21 as amended I will work with her to get some of my comments Did you make the motion? I made it in a second So the discussion of the motion All of the failure of the motion can be seen by the say aye We're going to obtain a motion to move to the middle of the session So moved 743 743 Now we can move to the middle of the session