 How's everyone doing today? Yeah, good good kind of towards the end of the conference, right to catch the sessions you wanted to catch Yeah How many of you are new to open source? Do you feel like it's a different language? Yes, yes Yeah, so so that's what the panel is all about is How do you learn the language of open source and inner source? As you are, you know coming into this arena Acronyms the culture the the collaboration the community there's so many new things to learn and What we want to do as a panel is Each of us will share our stories of how we came into open source and how we learned the language of open source and inner source and then we'll go into what are some of the The better communication strategies we've seen how should we improve the communications and collaboration and open source and inner source and And then really welcome your questions It's it's important for you to walk away feeling I Can navigate this world and you know more effectively and I have some tools in my box And I'm inspired by people's journeys of how they've got into open source and inner source so this is an incredibly diverse and amazing panel and We will go around and introduce ourselves But first let me introduce myself and tell you the story of my journey into open source and inner source and how I learned the language of inner source and open source so It was back in 1998 I was working at Silicon Graphics, which was a server company in Mountain View, California and We were a very proprietary company and open source was just beginning, you know a Linux was just kind of getting started and The company decided to embark on an open source strategy and moving some of our products to open source so shipping Linux based servers if you will and It was such a foreign word to me in terms of I had to learn terms like a community a Project versus product How do you work with community? and you know, how do you Kind of bridge enterprise customers who expect, you know Guaranteed service with communities who kind of do their best effort and who do what they can So so it was it was a lot of the new learning for me And and it was also a kind of a new time in the industry when all of us were learning together So my guide was a maintainer and some of you may know him Jeremy Allison Was my guide. He was an open source maintainer of the project Samba And so he helped me kind of understand how open source projects work What is a maintainer versus a committer versus a contributor versus a user and how should companies Work with open source without kind of coming across to corporate So there's all of those nuances that that I had to learn and then along the way I then you know open sourced a project at another company and Started a community there so learned a lot about how to manage a community and Then went on to product manage an open source project product at another company And so learned how to work Product versus project and how do you bridge the two? and now run an Ospo at Amazon and Open source program offices frankly all of us are culture guides and we are guides to Developers working inside the company to communities outside the company so with that I'm going to turn to Claire and ask Claire what her journey was into inner source and open source thank you, Nithya Nithya, and I'd say I'd start by saying that my That for relatively speaking. I'm a quite a newbie to the whole open source world So I spent most of my career working with developer communities, but in proprietary software And it wasn't until about 2017 2018 that I first started working with an organization That was commercially linked to open source before that I kind of thought it was all you know Unicorns and rainbows and passion projects and people in their bedrooms And it wasn't I didn't realize that people were actively using it as part of their and commercial business operations And when I did realize that and saw that it not only was a fantastic way to develop software But it explored these areas of collaboration and really it was all about how people work together better And I became fascinated about it and more particularly and interestingly I was actually looking at it from inner sources perspective So for those of you who are not familiar that's the use of open source practices But behind organization firewalls so it's too so often to create proprietary software, but using open source methods And I became involved in a community called inner source commons And that is interestingly a community for inner source practitioners, but run as an open source project So all the the materials that inner source commons has are all available on github And we all contribute to those materials using open source methods and practices. It is open source And so that was a sneaky that was a sneaky way to get me doing open source So now now I have like you know a github, you know ID and I was you know Look at my little green boxes, and I too had guides. I think that's an interesting parallel My journey started because I met Denise Cooper in the organization I was working with who was the founder of inner source commons and of course a long-term open source advocate She was a great guide for understanding a lot about the the kind of culture the principles And then I had also guides at inner source commons in particular and folks those folks here in the room So I'm going to wave at all the yee and but in particular there was a there's a chap called Johannes who's one of our board members and members and I remember Johannes like step stepping me through the process of my first commit and And or my first pull request and then my first commit and I remember the excitement like I literally afterwards I was tweeting like They're not tweeting I was texting at Denise and I was like that. That was so amazing That was such an amazing I'm not like I've got a high from that and she's like yeah Like I was like why don't people know about this because it's such like it's amazing process and and she's like It's not all unicorns and rainbows Claire and I was okay. Okay. Okay, but at the same time I'm firm believer That the open-source community has a huge potential to bring this process to a broad range of people That's far beyond developers in a in a way to bring collaborative working methods to a much wider audience and Like it is when it works. Well, it is so good that I just feel that the world needs to more more people in the world Need to know how to do it and not just technical folk and so this conversation for me I feel very particularly about this bridging creating a common language between Technical people who self-identify as being technical and people who self-identify or being a bit scared about that And I think that that's an interesting topic. We might explore. So thank you exactly Jen hi everyone. My name is Chan Bong If Claire is a newbie, I'm a new new new new My experience with open source has always been in an academic setting up until recently So my first interaction with open source was at University learning open data And so as a student learning about data, I had to quickly get large amounts of it free and available and then be able to open Analyze that in open tools. So, you know students don't have money so you really we really had to you know be able to search and Utilize what's out there for us? I had a lot of guides and mentors along the way and eventually Moved on to a master's degree in spatial analytics where I got to learn a lot about the open GIS community and then I moved on to Program manage a data science team at at a university in Colorado Where we focus mainly on research both interoperability and Reproduce reproducibility And that really relies on open-source software You know in order to get good research out there you have to be able to Have it available for all people In the research community And then just earlier this year I joined the Comcast open source program office as a program manager working with developers on contributing to open source And I've met a ton of you already So thank you for coming out and I've really at this conference and through a lot of our zoom Discussions I've learned a ton from all of you here in the open source community And I hope to keep that going and then be able to spread that knowledge to others as well Hi, thank you. So I'm Anna Jimenez and I got into open source. I will say thanks to my former company I work for five years ago I Was working at a company called vitergia. So vitergia was kind of a special. It was formed in the within a university and open source setter established there from by researchers and Professors and they they started that company focused on software development analytics and They were my mentors. I mean I I would say like they did and they are doing great job mentoring and helping their Employees to get into open source to understand open source and to love this community because thanks to them is I know everything I know now And and then moved to right now. I'm the Osprey program manager at to the group that is a Linux foundation project focus it on Osprey adoption happened. We are a group of Osprey practitioners and organizations having an Osprey that are helping and resources common tooling research and and more resources to you to have them others advancing there in their open source program office journey and Yeah, and that is and I think also thanks to open source. I found my way in this world like why I'm in here so So yeah, I will say that is my short story Ricky Hello, everyone. My name is and Vicky to me Lee and I'm Was a coder by trade but now I'm happily coder as a As a hobby because I'm mainly involved a lot with the Irish tech community here Especially advocating diversity in tech so my first foray into the community was in mid 2005 So I've been around the block quite a bit with the Python community So I ran the Python arm meetups for quite a while because people said hey We need to find somewhere and have a cock with slides instead of huddled around a small table in the pub And it was quite noisy. So when I said, let's do it and then I go No one did it. So I just went and just did it for them and then after 10 years I think okay, this is enough someone else can take it over you grow the community's grown quite a bit during that period I chaired for PyCon Ireland as well and during that and also I kind of Founded a few different issues like a launch py ladies Dublin, which I still run We got Joined women code Dublin as one of the directors here Member of the women technology and science Ireland. I'm involved with a lot of stuff And of course one of the main co-founders of coding grace where pre-covid we ran kind of them with their firstly friendly and close Tech workshops for those who are interested in technology or upskilling and are terrified of going to tech It works out in events So we want to create a safe environment where the mentors from facilitators or people from the industry and we're all volunteers Since then I've been curating news events opportunities for specifically focused in on the island of Ireland's Ireland and Northern Ireland Because there's a lot of information elsewhere, but here in Ireland is always fragmented and specifically pulling information for diversity in tech Community here and out of curiosity also Curator curating a list or have curated a list of diversity in tech groups around the island of Ireland you'd be surprised There's over 70 groups So it is for a small island like this and for not much now a huge population compared to other large countries It is still needed. So I'm coming from that perspective I As I didn't from a previous talk you got community caretakers, so I am one of the caretakers So I was called myself an organizer But thank you for the opportunity for inviting me here in this panel and thanks to Claire That's how I met everyone here in the panel and if anyone needs to talk to me about the Irish tech scene here Come talk to me at doors are also open. Thank you You know one of the things that's common here is Not all of us are coders not all of us are techies And it really illustrates the importance of so many other roles in open source and inner source The caretaker role, you know Someone who kind of Organizes things and gets people together and shares information and aggregates and collects information The person who guides the company from an open source program office perspective Someone who gets companies together to share their knowledge and you know building new practices Inside companies it's it's it's the it's the lifeblood of open source and inner source you cannot do Without these connective tissues and these people who communicate and create these Organizations so I just wanted to highlight you don't have to be a coder to be an open source and inner source You can bring your superpowers and skills to the table and and help with you know Whatever you have to offer So with that said One of the things I noticed was communication was quite different in you know open source and inner source compared to in Companies right we often do emails and meetings and power points and things of that nature So tell us about your communication style with an open and inner source and how do you kind of navigate? What tools do you use? How do you make sure you're heard? Thank you because it was a big change from from my perspective I mean I think there there are there's maybe three kind of elements that I think we've talked about before but it's some of it It's the language itself right you have to know what the acronyms mean people talk about Processes like you should understand what a PR like processes about and you're like yeah Yeah, you're like oh, what does that mean and then you have to set yourself up technically to do that and There is there's also the tools that they used so that was my first introduction things like slack and You know asynchronous messaging and that are just even in terms of how people document their Pull requests and the fact that it is asynchronous just as a method of how you communicate and so I think there's there's there's loads to Learn like that that is actually new if you're coming from a traditional corporate environment where email where it is predominantly by email or through physical huddles right But the thing that surprised me most actually has been well first of all my we were talking about this earlier But my my usual way of getting to with the language and the acronyms and thing like that is to lurk a bit So I just I just go in and lurk a little bit in all the communities and see see how people phrase things I like to think of a pretty good mimic So then I try I try mimicking how people are phrasing like does that sound weird like you know Well people respond to me if I say this and so that's a bit about the language But what really surprised me was that kind of different ways of communicating so things like the asynchronous messaging or even just like Documenting the whys behind why you're asking something all of that sort of thing was totally new to me Like it's just not it's not the context that's given in like business kind of like in my previous roles And it's so useful like it's so useful for for a newbie now coming in to look at other people's conversations And it's so useful for me to even remember why the hell I asked that question in the first place like it like two months later I'm like why that why was I talking about that then and now I can actually remember because I can go back and look at the documentation and So I guess there's there's the there's the methods There's the language and there's the tools and I have found all of them to be an incredibly valuable experience in expanding my ways of communicating and I'll just just one small story to sorry if you but if just around the asynchronous communication and I think the the fact that that has helped me is one thing I've heard many stories about how it helps other people with accessibility issues with the fact that they may not be as Comfortable in in-person meetings or real-time meetings. So there's many other benefits to these Varieties of ways of communicating that are present in the open-source world that are perhaps not present in other Kind of corporate environments. So I just want to kind of call that out It's hugely powerful in so many ways as being a clarifying tool and a tool to increase accessibility You know so and especially in the last two three years when all of us have been working virtually and remotely Some of these tools and techniques used in open-source async etc. Really been useful Absolutely, and I'll note actually and again loving being here Don't get me wrong this being meeting people in person for the first time in a couple of years has been incredible But I would not have made this journey without the fact of the pandemic opening up so many Events to be virtual because I would never have had the budget to go to any of these events before as part of the community So I'll just put a knot out keep keep some events virtual, please because that's a great accessibility Yeah, and on this topic of accessibility and language and so I work with a lot of non-English speakers And so when you're virtual It's and when and then when you're in person you have your mask on it's hard to read the lips of someone Or hard to really hear When English might not be your native language for me Chinese is my first language Cantonese specifically is my first language and so then Then I have to shift my brain to the English and then to the technical aspect and then to and then every other little thing that is involved in that and so You know I think that if we can open up the accessibility channels for that it would be great um for me I think my advice for communication styles is I have a program management background and so my advice would be to Think about what your communication style is what your stakeholders communication styles are and then write that down For program managers. We call it a communications matrix. It's actually like a well Systematic way to do it and there's a lot of research out there On how on how to do that For me personally, I I have a sentinel kind of personality where I really rely on data practical information Tested practices and I I really value also supportive and collaborative environments, which is great for an open source community So while you know, I I use my sentinel personality to my advantage in working with legal technical security stakeholders because I think Well, they really like data and facts and so do I and so if I communicate my data and facts to them Then I can understand more about what they care about and then take that information to create a clear easy to understand An empathetic message to our developers Who are looking to to contribute and really helping to guide that kind of translation Um, I think it's important, but you get you you really have to have kind of An understanding of what your stakeholders want and how they and how they speak I think you bring up an important point, which is that in open source You're often working with lots of different kinds of people at one time legal the community and maybe business and developers and Maybe data and factual information helps you Kind of reach all of them, but also you're acting as a translator across all of those folks. Yeah And actually I wanted to highlight that. Um, I think A best practice can be uh build more hybrids So a short story about myself. I My bachelor's degree was marketing And I translated I transitioning a lot because I get into coding I started to develop some website because for fun and then I got into data science In fact, I finished my master's degree in data science two years ago All of them. I remember all my colleagues were engineers and I was the crazy marketer person there And yeah, it was hard, but I just got the chance to Uh play with the data to Struggle with the scripts in python to learn different programming languages. And now what I have is I got knowledge from Data science and from I understand more the developers at least and I also understand the marketers So, uh, I can speak the language of both sides And if we build more hybrids in this ecosystem That will be great because they will be able to facilitate this conversation And I also wanted now that you were mentioning it about, um, accessibility issues in my community One of the things when dealing with Non-English native speakers. I'm also not native English speaker. I come from Spain and so it's Spanish my first language Um, one of the examples, uh, we do to improve this accessibility is on virtual calls Uh, we we use zoom and zoom has live captioning So this way, uh, it helps, uh, mostly non native English speakers to really Get the message and and read When people are asking it's not like listening to it. They can also read the answer the question And take the time to answer in advance Okay, uh, from my side of things from all the various events and workshops that I've been running I think it's a great opportunity especially for those now mind you the facilitators and mentors that come to our work technical workshops They're not lecturers. They're not trained profession professional teachers So they have a lot to learn from their side, especially as their first time facilitating workshop So when they start talking tech, they just start doing a tech workshop. You'll go into a flow when Sunny there is like acronyms and tech terms coming in and a lot of people who might not understand the tech might get confused So I also make sure that we have enough facilitators around and coaches to help people in case they fall behind and is never It's there's no such thing as a stupid question It's like that's what this space is for put up your hand ask those questions Because at the end of the day that kind of is a feedback for everyone saying, oh, okay I might need to rethink the way how I explain What I'm doing what I'm teaching and it'll help them especially presenting to like, you know Conferences or presenting to a company kind of hand and all hands or whatever it is So it's kind of educated educating for everyone. So not for the learners but also feel by night Also feedback for the people facilitating And also speaking presenting One other thing is I noticed that some folks who come to the workshop they're not particularly there to learn about coding They're actually more or less like I'm a project manager. I'm not a coder But I really want to find out what my team is talking about because sometimes I You know, not that they were you know being pushed aside and saying, oh, they don't understand what I talk about And they don't and they're afraid to put up their hand to ask the questions So it kind of helps everyone and helps improve the project and help improve the community all around. So Um, so that's kind of my my input in that you know, um One of the things I find myself doing also if I'm talking inside the company. I use a different terminology and voice because you do want to be heard by your business stakeholders and Those who provide budgets And they want to know what the value and benefits are to the company And then there's a different voice when you talk to the community And and because you can't use unicorns and kumbaya inside the company So you just have to really moderate who your stakeholder is and how you communicate all of this But you you all brought up many good practices in communications Are there other things we can do to improve communications and inclusivity and Accessibility and open source. What else can we do? I suppose I'll give you very quickly. I will probably say you mentioned a lot of different communication tools And a lot of people are still terrified of even going saying oh slack everyone's using but no not everyone uses slack Discord is like everyone is using it. Yes, but not everyone is Want to go and use this cord, you know, oh, but there's text. There's like There's like slack and there's video and there's you can share just like zoom And then using that and like oh, it's just so it's kind of um I think onboarding if you're like um have a community and you have several different communication tools or different ways of Speaking I think if you especially yourself you have to also Basically take time and think about how how you communicate with people and also you have volunteers Make sure that you kind of in not onboarding new ones, but also go around and tell everyone saying, okay We're using this tool making sure that everyone's still comfortable with it Is there any feedback that people just don't like the way how how we're communicating? Is it not accessible? um As you mentioned mentioned that you know people might like to have this live conversation Like I've been to you know conferences where they tried this live questioning thing. It was terrifying You know people don't want their face up in a big screen in front of hundreds of people It's okay. That is okay But then that's their voice left out and you don't want to lose those voices as well because they are the community so that's kind of um what I um I suppose onboarding and revisit tools are other we have so many different things out there Old stores tools so much stuff out there property and open source, but you know We just have to be conscious of what we use and not just say this is what we're using. That's it Yeah, so I love the onboarding piece. So by the time people need to use those tools They're comfortable with it and and each community is different, isn't it? I mean and they all have their own different ways here and I would say that based on my own experience because that worked for me I would say the power of mentorship Like having this mentors on an individual level like maybe having this advocate or developer relations experts that mentors in open source For non tech people to tech people both both sides And also on the organizational level I will say that open source program offices for instance can be a vehicle to enhance this mentorship and nurture The organization of open source understanding so The same way I was in the in our organization be Mentored into open source. I think more organizations can also take those learnings and and Nurture their employees into into open source best practices I think Anna just stole my answer I I really appreciate that idea of Using ospos as a vehicle And going going to your ospos if they exist are creating ospos within your company to Have a group of people who can support you For me, I think that for us to improve communication styles We really need to be open to all of the tooling that's out there and not just One way I think that we have to lower the barriers to entry To in order to provide that inclusiveness. There are people who are Who want to be part of this space who who may not even know about the space and I think can thrive in it Again, I'm fairly new to it as a ospo professional And when I found it I thought Perfect. It's it's perfect for What I want to do in my career. And so I think there's plenty of people out there who who would feel the same way but it's being able to Lower our barriers to entry And and mentor People and being willing to provide the time to mentor them Yeah, I think you brought up one example of lowering the barrier to entry virtual events I think angela who runs the learnings foundation events says that there's such a huge spike in people attending During the covet days, you know, I call it before covet after covet during covet So, um, I think from africa and from asia and from so many different Areas of the globe. Um, I I agree if you should continue making that happen Yeah, I mean it was it. I mean it was a factor in me being able to follow this as a career And I honestly think I would never have been able to make that happen. Otherwise Just from an accessibility being able to find the connections you make So I I always think that the the you know people People sometimes say that you can't make these virtual connections, but I I know I have met people here today that I've been working I'm looking at you guys I've been working with for two odd years and never met in person and I can honestly say we came here as friends You know, like there is there is a there's a you don't have to meet people in the real world to have a trusted relationship And I think that that is another element that really helps communication and the ability to Start to communicate effectively in an area. You're unsure about Um, but I will also so so I my my tip would be around this idea of informal Um, uh, I suppose systems around the formal communications because I'm totally on with everyone things where people were saying around Multiple ways to communicate supporting different styles I love the idea of thinking deliberately about that because sometimes it's kind of a bit ad hoc It's kind of like ah, we have a bit of slack and we have a bit of events So we have but the idea of actually You know thinking formally to say are we giving different options to people and are we being consistent about that? I love that. Um, but I'll also say that some of communication is about trust and feeling like you're in a safe space like personally for me some of the things we tried in inner-source commons was Creating fake hallway tracks before our community calls whereby we all come on 15 minutes beforehand Anyone who wants to if you're just hanging around and we talk about what's been happening here today And let's introduce you to my cat and you know, how how is the weather in your part of the world? And it's this kind of informal Chatter that can then make people feel like they have a way to approach people to say I had no idea what he was talking about Can you you know, can you help me here like or why did they say it in that way? And and those kinds of questions are harder to ask if you haven't had a bit of Chatter and laugh with people. So I'll add that to how it can be a really important factor And it can be done virtually. It's really good to do it in person by the way So I like I I think we you know, we've had some great experiences here that you couldn't replicate online But there are great ways to do it virtually too I I also, you know, one of the things you can do In in a life setting is having a meal together, right and you bond over Having a meal together, but and the inner-source commons. You actually made that happen Every one of us had to bake a cake That's right. I couldn't eat my one. It was like cake together And that was kind of lovely But I love your idea of you know, breaking the ice in the beginning of you know a session Joining early and kind of getting to know everybody and even having a back channel To somebody you trust in in the group and say, am I hearing that right? How should I express myself here? And So I know we have about six minutes left. So I instead of asking the next question I'm going to throw it to the audience and and see if there are any questions from the audience on Communication culture collaboration. How do we make that better? How did we kind of get started? Oh, sure Can you hear me? Okay. I know we talked a little bit about lowering barriers and having Lots of different communications channels at my company that has happened kind of sporadically and so what we're finding is that we have A fragmentation of communication channels meaning that we have Groups that that should be talking to each other spread across multiple channels And we don't have any way to put them back together again And I wonder if If you have any advice on that topic, I guess is what I'm asking That's a great question I'm going to say and in the community and right now That it's that I've heard that before so and the answer is There is so many diversity that people are going to be more comfortable in one Some people are going to be more comfortable in one channel and the others in other and you're not going to never get like the this One channel that fits for everyone But if you What what worked for me was to try to get a list of all the different Channels that are there and which ones are the more inclusive ones like for instance in our community I know different channels are not accessible for certain community members because They work at industry that they have for instance, like it's not available so offer As a second option a channel that can be available and is more inclusive So, uh, even though you might not have all the People come into that channel at least is inclusive so people can get into that So given a few options not just having this is One the channel we're going to use and maybe there's people that are not comfortable doing that And also maybe documented um in several ways like how to Get on boarded into those students because that is important you even though you know how to use slack Maybe there's people that comes there for the first time Or this code or what all the different channels we were talking about so this your communication reading documentation and also offer Possibilities where people can engage Fully agree with all that and to add in again back to this idea of deliberate approaches as well Which which you've described but um One of the things that we found often useful is to have People who know it's their the role or they're really good at actually translating from one channel to the other So you have folks who are going along looking for discussions that relate to patterns and kind of going That's a pattern. Can you potentially put that over in the patterns group and then guiding them through that process? and so this idea of actually having people deliberately look for translation points And formally recording what those ideal paths are so you wouldn't do that for everything You don't need to you don't need to You know translate my conversation about my dog into get up because you know, it's not relevant But when we do have a conversation that might be recorded, you know, what are those triggers to say? Let's make that more formal. That would be a really interesting one to share in our slack That's a really interesting one to put in the newsletter And and people are constantly then alert for that and and signaling that that might be a something that again Someone that's not technical might be a really great role for them to actually An onboard into the community um by helping in that way because that's a different skill set Yeah, and and the only other thing I would add is if you're making an announcement make it in all the channels Right because uh, uh, your your point is really good Um, people all have preferences in terms of which channels they use and how they can use it And so we have to accommodate multiple channels, sadly But those checklists are getting very long. So we've actually created a checklist for announcements now So you don't forget because people do they always like Thanks for this great discussion is learning a lot Um, so I have a question in your roles in the ospo centers of communication What do you find is the key difference in communicating with women developers versus men developers? Specifically from different cultures So so rupa runs, um, a fantastic Retention of women in tech organization called thrive wise So I can see why she'd be interested in that question. Yeah, thanks so much Ashley I think bicky you're doing a lot in this area um So, uh, how do we phrase that question again? um Really inclusive. How do we so I suppose um in my early days of um trying to so I've been General python island meetups at the time. I just went to us. I was young. I said, oh my god Someone's into python. Oh my god. Get to talk about stuff. I just didn't really notice the people around me um, and um Eventually after a while go, I see one person just like I said, oh my god, you're here for the meetup And then they're gone again So and then when I start running them, um, and I start asking these questions, especially around the conferences I said, how do I get more people like Myself or other people who are um, you know, more diverse community to come to these events So I went to an event um called the ardent girl geek dinners And I asked the organizer, can I specifically ask have a conversation on why there aren't enough You know people like myself going to these conferences, especially python island because I was trying to get people to go Um, it was my I was just determined And a lot of them came back was just the messaging The messaging so that was the years ago. It was like 2009 or something But when when I was looking into it, it was just and it's still the same sometimes In some events you still see the messaging is still geared. Oh, I'm not Technical enough. I'm not in the specific area. So I shouldn't be going to it even I'm very curious about or should I be there? Um, because some of them are like a lot of them are paid conferences and events and things like that So I think um to make make it more, um, inclusive Um, definitely is the messaging the wording Um, um description and and and um, especially those who and also don't forget the people who are organizing the community Um being able to see who's there. You don't have to say you're a diverse inclusive You just you just see it and then people start talking. Um, and that's I think so much more perspective about kind of how to make it a more Inclusive and more accessible for people. Um, especially in a very You know Intentionality is what's so important, right? And um, when we were when I was at Comcast and We specifically looked for women speakers and we specifically Wanted to make sure that women developers in the organization felt welcome and they didn't feel like this was just aimed at, you know the the men in the room and and I think it really requires intentionality kind of looking at your invites Having a diverse community of For the conference organization And then reaching out and making sure people are there and feeling welcome Yeah, so I think that's the end of our time. Sadly Oh, okay, sorry, can can we take another two minutes? Yes Thank you. Okay, so lunch can wait So the question is it says really great conversations What are your thoughts of communities having sort of like a terminology doc to explain acronyms and open source terms I think that's a fantastic idea. Uh, you know community is kind of uh Document coding styles how to contribute Read me's etc. So having a doc that says here are the common terminologies we use Here are the uh communication tools we use as a company as an art as a project or even as a company or a project Uh, I think that's a great idea I want to add one of my favorite ones I think we should also have an emoji library in things because I'm like like I find the emojis are like for a given community I mean, I have a whole array of dancing penguins for various different feelings that I want to convey and I think it would be a Good one as well. That's a good one. And I would say, um, Claire in the inner source commons has your People in the inner source community have created a common vocabulary In your repos and then in the to-do group as well have created standards and um really bringing together this common Definitions So there are people doing it and there are resources out there So be on the lookout for that and say answer drew this group is question again. I'm going to do a plug But there is a um talk later today around 5 p.m Sonotype is going to be giving the talk on Remember how I would love data. They're going to be putting data into kind of the gender gap in open source So be on the lookout for that conversation Yep Thank you everyone. Uh, this has been a great conversation. Thank you vicki. Thank you Anna. Thank you chan Thank you Claire. I really appreciate all of your perspectives