 This is Dennis McMahon and welcome to Positively Vermont and today we are speaking with Christopher Parker Who is the executive director of the Vermont Rail Action Network? and welcome Christopher and I understand you're at a nearby railroad location. Can you just tell us where you're at for? Some background I I'm outside on account of not having power at home So I've driven off to find a connection and sometimes it's a little loud out here, so I'll do my best Okay, let me just begin. I'm gonna do this at the beginning so Tell us a little bit about yourself Your background and how you became interested in railroads so I grew up next to a railroad line and I've been interested in Railroads since I was young and I Have been inspired by some people who came before me who were advocates for better train service and Realized that I had something to offer in terms of standing up and and saying this is important to kind of community we want and so For almost 15 years now, I've been involved in and in doing that and Tell us a little bit about the Vermont Rail Action Network. How did that get started and What type of people are involved and just give us an overview of the group where a citizens group that has members From a diverse background We have people from the business community All kinds of leaders in their local communities. We also have environmental Activists and and people whose primary concern is the environment and of course we have rail buffs and people who are shippers and directly depend on the You know the economic benefits that railroads bring to them personally or to their towns So in terms of numbers we have about 6,000 people on our list and of course a much smaller core section of Really active people That's amazing. 6,000 people just interested in in railroads in Vermont is You know, it's an interesting cause it brings together all sides of the political perspective and in the same room you have the You know the suits and the and the shippers the business people and you have the environmental tie-dye folks Because you know, we're all on this train going in the same direction ultimately in life That's amazing. Well, I wound up in Vermont by train in the first place I hit on that train journey was that's extension and I'll go there many many many times a week and and It's just the whole fascinating thing and I remember the that great poem called the lay of the lost traveler about the Ex-exjunction being such an important rail hub in the 19th century It's a fascinating background, but that's that's enough about about me Could you just tell us a little bit about the state of rail transportation in Vermont and its surrounding areas at the present moment? So Just a brief summary Vermont has two Amtrak trains The one you rode that gets you to as ex-exjunction covers the Connecticut River Valley up to Wait River Junction and then following 89 And all the way to St. Albans and then there's another train on the other side of the state to Rutland and that train goes Only to Rutland at this point, but In a year or so It's planned to extend to Burlington via Middlebury So both of these trains go to New York City And from there you can get to Philadelphia Washington D.C. And the northeast And then on the other side of the picture we have freight trains Following these passenger train routes and and going beyond The freight brings in Grain for dairy farmers it brings in Fuel so all of the heating oil and the gasoline that's used in northern Vermont comes by train Brings in lumber and and rock salt for the roads and You know, that's just what comes to mind. It brings in all the commodities that that underpin life really How many trains a day approximately pass through our state and how voluminous is this from a way down a rail and a passenger perspective? Well, we have about a hundred thousand people a year riding the f-direct trains in normal times, of course with the virus. It's a completely Different picture because the trains aren't running at the moment And in terms of freight trains, there's Probably 60,000 carloads and again apologies for for being outside here So in the neighborhood of 60,000 carloads pass through Vermont or or terminate or originate in Vermont And one of the things I know your organization does it it advocates the The benefits of rail transportation. So can you outline for our viewers some of the benefits of rail transportation? so rail is a infrastructure asset that Makes it possible to do other things with a smaller environmental footprint And also a smaller land use footprint so, you know people hire and Ship and move and build because the railroad is there so For example, I know people who've retired to Vermont And do so because they know they can go back home to their grandchildren Or I know People who have come to Vermont as consultants or business people And You know, they know they can go to clients when they need to further away. So The fact that that's there allows the value of our Well, our life really but our property in particular to to go up And on the freight side It's a similar situation so You know our our feed mills would be out of state and trucking in if there wasn't a railroad Gasoline would be more expensive and that would affect everything What what about the the idea of Tourism isn't it just wonderful that that I remember when I when I first got here that the train Wumbered almost through three states and the views were fantastic. What about the tourist aspects of this? Well, 55 percent of the people in new york city don't have cars So if we want their business We need the infrastructure to bring them here And even for people who do have cars, you know, the train isn't an attractive way to get there They'll choose to take the train And so that makes vermont more attractive Could you tell us now what the the state of Rail situation is I guess these are the amtrak will start with that How is amtrak operating or what does it have any plans to increase or or a change its Service to vermont and more particularly, how is your group dealing with that? So Um amtrak operates as a tenant. So the freight railroads are the ones that are in charge of Um maintaining and dispatching and and supervising controlling the track Amtrak takes that role in between, um, washington dc new york Um springfield and boston, but further north. It's um the freight that pays the bills for the track and amtrak Um operates Um with them controlling the line And in general they do pretty well So they're in terms of their physical assets that's the train itself um And and of course the um, you know the infrastructure of ticketing and that sort of thing So our group, you know The work of advocacy is the work of relationships And It's it's our job to show up. It's our job to Articulate what's important to us as a movement and It's you know, we talk to people so we have contacts with an amtrak And so I could pick up the phone and and Call someone and say, you know, what what's this about or something like that? um It's not a It's a collegial relationship. It's not they're not We have influence, but we don't have control Um, you know, they don't do what we say necessarily now the trains in vermont are Paid for by the state of vermont And so the state of vermont has a different kind of relationship Um, it's a relationship as a customer Amtrak provides the service to the state and so they do do what the state says And of course the state is accountable to all of us. It's the state is Is the expression of the citizens of vermont, right? So That's where the the line goes and our job is to educate and You know, make sure people are aware of what's going on or not going on and to pass along to the leaders and decision makers kind of The aspirations and the vision that that we would have for You know a cleaner greener future with more trains and um I guess we also have some expertise collectively and and you know, among our board and myself From paying closer attention and and being involved in the industry Well, what efforts right now? I know the legislature is up for reelection this year, but The vermont legislature and the house of representatives. What efforts have you been making with The house of representatives in the senate and the vermont legislature about the balls of transportation in vermont? Um, and maybe uh, who needs a more of a push well It's an interesting situation right now because of the virus and Yeah, we're I guess, um Interested to see how the financial situation of the state is going to play out uh, we're Worried because much of transportation Is funded by and therefore follows the priorities of the federal government and the federal funding that comes with it um that Federal priorities and federal funding is very highway oriented The amtrak funding in the state of vermont has in the past not had any federal funds For operations so It has made it easier in the past Think that the amtrak trains could be a target in tough budget times this That's simplifying a situation because in fact the state does have a contractual obligation to um To continue the service through s6 junction away or a junction as part of the rebuild of the tracks that happened about 10 years ago But So we're looking to see as everyone is what the big picture is going to be in terms of the financial state of vermont and There Are probably going to have to be choices made and of course um, you know, we know that the trains are important to us and and To many people and it's our job to stand up and say so So it's at this point it's sort of a wait and see And how is the the covet 19 situation? Affected this and how I know that you put out some very interesting information Recently about trains in the in the era of covet 19. Tell us a little about that All right, so on the amtrak side of things the trains are not running in vermont And what happened is in april um ridership just went down down down no one was traveling which was a good thing of course um and So the trains were stopped um And they have continued to be stopped of course once you stop a service It's easier for it to stay stopped um at the moment You know most people entering vermont are under a quarantine requirement So I I think that as long as that continues to be Um widespread Um the trains are probably going to continue passenger trains are going to continue to not run Um, that's causing some concern among our group You know, there's a variety of perspectives as far as how much we should lock our lives down and And how much we should open the economy up and so that That diversity is in our group as well and there are people who are upset that the trains are not running right now Um, there are other people who think well, you know, good because we don't want anybody coming to vermont Those are not the people whose livelihoods depend upon um tourism of course On the freight side. Oh, and I should say before moving on here um other states have taken Uh a more mixed approach than vermont has in terms of their amtrak trains. So for example main um Also has a quarantine Um, but they have restarted some but not all of the downeaster service and they're seeing about 12 of the normal ridership at the moment Um on the other hand about half of those Riders in previous times were commuters into boston and that market is has not returned. Those people are working from home so You could think of it as 25 of the normal main to boston visitor traffic So that's where we're at people are not traveling for business They are traveling for vacations, but at dramatically reduced levels and since from the Downeaster management is that most of the riders right now are visiting friends and family that those connections are, you know, what's most important to people and and um And they do continue that travel So on the freight side nationally we're About 85 percent of the freight movement from before the virus um Or that level of traffic is is where we're at now. Um, it had dropped dramatically For example, there were no new cars moving for a few months um And now it's coming back on the in in the um shipment of containers That's pretty much back to before the virus level. So that represents consumer spending is um pretty much back where it was But manufacturing is down from before the virus and freight traffic In terms of commodities reflects that And the other interesting thing is just nationally coal is down a lot Um power use during the virus has gone down and that the first thing to to Not be used has been coal. So There's definitely an environmental benefit from that and that's of course reflected in the freight numbers Could just maybe for a minute talk about the employment picture Maybe before or now and certainly you're looking for the future What about the employment picture regarding railroads? How many people in the state Has an employer or in industries directly related to that or the carriers themselves? I know the cooling on central and and tracking and the trains that I see around here. Tell us about the employment picture So in terms of the people who work for railroads, it's not actually that large of a number so You know, we're talking for the passenger services You know in ballpark numbers um 25 people and each freight railroad is probably about Between 100 and 150 people I'm in total, but The real jobs implication for railroads is the number of people that are employed because of the businesses that are supported by rail and that is I'm going to tell you a figure from memory. I believe around 6 000 people with direct Employment because of railroads that would Be that would not have a job in Vermont if that infrastructure went away That's pretty substantial but now that's of course a pre-covid figure and it's actually a few years old and I'm also speaking from memory. So Hopefully i'm right Well, you mentioned the keyword there infrastructure and of course, you know, there's a lot of infrastructure involved like down in middlebury different types of railway bridges and How does that impact and what is your group concerned about? improvement or infrastructure activities Um, I missed the last part of your question. So infrastructure. Yeah, basically infrastructure. How are you? Getting involved with infrastructure improvement or activities or construction or reconstruction. I know there's a lot of those types of physical areas we see around the state all around middlebury and places in that area So when we started our our work, um about 12 years ago uh, the tracks in vermont really needed a lot of attention and We've been fortunate in vermont to have benefited from some federal funding for specifically for infrastructure work And that has come about because we've highlighted some priorities and so some money has flowed in that direction Um, so we're in a much better place now than we were then um Now of course, you know, we have to continue to maintain what we've got That's always the deal with infrastructure um but at the moment things are in in decent shape and um We can help to we can claim some credit for Contributing to the political environment that's that's led to that um So that is actually an answer that is uh in regards to funding in terms of um You know the actual physical on the ground stuff that's there um, we Keep tabs on the railroad network um We are able to say for example speed limit is a good proxy for general condition, right? Because if the condition is good that it allows you to go at a reasonable speed The main lines in remod are generally good for for passenger trains 60 miles an hour And for freight trains 40 miles an hour That's good There are slower lines but And basically for um for a rural area we're in good shape I noticed you didn't you have a recent uh Activity uh down in middlebury about this or I saw something on the website that That you had a before or inspection like that Maybe i'm incorrect But I know you had a recent event where you invited some local leaders and and Project like that Well, we're gonna have to ask ourselves that question about how we're gonna Do this kind of thing in a COVID world um We've been talking about having a zoom based event when the train comes the m track train comes back into service in remod and that's still just uh A discussion at this point, but it seems like it would be a fun idea to Be able to see the train go by on zoom and then You know talk about what's going on and then a little bit later somebody else has their camera up We see the train go by you know Um, I don't know if we've got the patience for every single station in vermont, but Um, we're thinking about that I suppose one could do some outdoor based events but at the moment I mean this the question of what people are up for and want to do and then there's the question of You know, how um ethical is it to really bring people together in this time? Well, I've said to my some of my other guests that uh frequently involve Activities of bringing people together when this crisis is all about your back and when you get those things prepared We're gonna let you talk about then, you know Uh, whenever the the crisis is over Uh, but I want to ask you something uh about you have a very impressive uh of mailing lists Mailing lists. They're at least email lists. Tell us what people can do. Uh, how they can they connect with the vermont rail action network Uh, uh, you have a membership base Volunteer donations. Tell us how the public can support you and and support the revitalization of rail passenger and freight in the state of romont Well, thank you. The simplest thing is as they can go to our website, which is rail vermont.org And um, I should tell you we're building a new website this summer. So The the website as it is is a little stale, but They can go there and they can sign up for email updates And um, I won't spam them much. I just don't have the time for that So that is gonna You know, that's in in the department of education Um, we could use financial help for sure and um, like many nonprofits our fundraising base has dropped a lot during this time so um, we are quieter because of that so Um, we could use volunteer help too. Um people who want to anchor their local town and um Stay in touch with our network And be a little more engaged Um, not everybody is there because this affects so many people. They're gonna have their own life and and just passing on the word to their legislator And and you know the powers to be that this is important. Um, that makes a huge difference That always makes a difference no matter what the issue is It's so important to to be in communication with our elected leaders and Um, and as not pestering them they they that's their job and um, generally they appreciate hearing from people because um You know, they they want to know where people stand. So So do pass along What matters to you Well, I've noticed that you have some sponsors and partners The remote rail action network, uh, it's a very excellent, uh, website and you talk about your sponsors and partners. Tell us what that's about so, um We work with a variety of organizations in terms of meeting with and and having conversations You know, we have conversations with the state government. We have conversations with environmental groups with business groups and Um Planners across the board the the community of people who are interested in what's happening with rail um sponsors Tends to be the people who have a business interest in better rail service. So we're talking freight shippers people who Have a business that's directly related to rail patronage like a hotel next to the train tracks, for example, I'm thinking of or um, you know another business that that directly benefits and um rail buffs, of course, and We've had some help in the past from the railroads themselves Right Let me ask you about one more thing before we conclude and that's membership. Uh, you have a membership base and Uh, how can people join and what are the benefits of membership either way? We do have a membership and um, you can join through our website railvamot.org And You know really what we're asking for is for people to Support our work And the financial help You know it covers all of the the basics. We're a pretty small little operation. So Um, it it makes a big difference um, and the benefit is to be a part of The organization and the mission um You know in a way that it is um, contributory That's great. Well, thank you very much christopher. Uh, and we are going to uh, follow your progress and hopefully as things, uh Improve in the rail and uh passenger and freight will have you back to explain some of the things that you're doing In the future or when when those things take place And uh, I want to thank you for appearing on positively romant. Uh, this is denis mcman My guest has been christopher parker The executive director of the romant rail action network. Thank you for watching