 Space is the next navies, it's like another war zone. It's going to be a battle, highly contested and highly congested environment. And there are no rules of engagement in space. Hello and welcome to theCUBE's pod episode two, Dave. I'm John Furrier, John Belante. We're back for our second pod. First one was kind of our inaugural pod, Dave. We got it off the blocks on a Friday when you record breaking analysis. Learned a lot and had a great time and we're back for episode two. Again, as I was joking on Twitter, to the All In podcast with Jason Kalkans is that we had six views right out of the gate there. Six million more to go. Well, watch out, we're coming for you. Got a lot of great feedback on the pod. People say it's the All In pod for enterprise. I thought that was pretty cool. And just overall, first one was awesome. Looking forward to today. I mean, ton of news. We're going to review the news. We're going to go into the digital disruption, dig into where the money's being made. Ultimately, there's a lot of cringe factor going on with a lot of the politics around tech and just a ton of stuff to talk about, Dave. Big time action this week. Yeah, and we still got earnings are trickling out. We got Mobile World Congress coming up next week. Yes, never ends in tech, John. Yeah, well, let's get into it. I mean, the goal of the podcast, we're trying to get more consistent. The feedback was get the show notes right. We're working on that. So we'll get our groove, get a couple in. Just look beta mode here. But I think let's get into the news. I mean, to me, I had a couple of interviews this week I thought were notable. One was Swami who heads up the database AI for Amazon Web Services, who we've known for a long time. He opened up and talked a lot about how Amazon views the open AI trend of chat GPT on the heels of Microsoft. I'll see a competitor. But we really also talked about how deep it is. Like, and they have this new announcement with hugging face expanded news. That's basically their answer to open AI and chat GPT with Bing. And how much just in the past three years, how it's opened up. That's also Amar Awadallah, founder of Cloudera. His company was on the cube this week too, as part of a news segment around AI as well. Massive amount of traction with this generative AI, Dave. This is, to me, the big story of this pod is the news there is generative AI is a wave. It could be bigger than other waves we've seen that have been major inflection points. The PC, internet working, the internet, mobile. And I think, I would say social media was one big one, but given kind of how that's turned out, I think generative AI and foundation models, this chat GPT direction is big enough because it's so much behind it. It's infrastructure, it's apps, there's middleware, it's data, it's just, it's just is gonna be huge. You know, I wanna say there's a lot of AI washing going on, I know that everybody, anybody who, I mean, NVIDIA on its call, talked about AI, stockpops. But, and people might think Amazon's doing the same, but I don't know if you remember, John, when you were out talking to Andy or Adam Salipsky last fall before re-invent, he actually talked about the importance of large language models and generative AI as well before chat GPT came out. And so, yeah, you know how it is in tech. It's like the NFL, if one person's thinking about it or they do it, everybody else is right there. It's a copycat league kind of thing. And there are gonna be different ways to skin that cat. We talked about, you know, maybe chat GPT doesn't have first mover advantage. George Gilbert actually, when he heard me say that, or us talk about that, said, actually they're getting a lot of early sort of warning signs and tuning the model so they actually may have a first mover advantage. So, yeah, we'll see. Well, I think I argued on that conversation against the first mover advantage. I think they do have a first mover advantage, but also, but the competition's coming in massive. Meta announced Facebook or Meta now announced their large language model. So the big dogs are coming in and weighing in with their stuff, Google. So Meta, like, okay, hey, you know, we spent a ton of dough on the metaverse. Now we're gonna pivot to large language model. So, okay, yeah, good, we'll see. Well, this is the thing. I mean, Meta said, let's talk Google, Facebook, now Meta, Microsoft, Amazon. Okay, the only company that hasn't weighed in is Apple. Okay, and you got Alibaba out there, but you look at these big giants, they are poised for large language model. I did a little sample on my feed with LinkedIn and Twitter. Took a few things about entrepreneurship in VC. I put it in chat GPT. It wrote a killer job memo to CEO founders for startups. It said, and literally it was all the stuff people were talking about, it put it into a memo. This is the future day. This is about, you know, automating intellect and changing the game as Amar Awadallah calls it, former Cloudera, now the founder of Victoria. This is real. I mean, I think this is gonna be one of those moments where apps are gonna become super apps with AI as part of it, big time built in as AI first. That'll probably come out very soon. We're an AI first company. I guarantee you the surge of startups will be coming in. VCs will get pitches all day long and they're gonna go at pedigree. Oh, you went to MIT neural networks. Here's $10 million, go. There's going to be a massive tsunami of unsophisticated VCs throwing money at credentialed AI people. Which if you think about it, as Paul Graham will point out, that's the antithesis of how Silicon Valley is. It's not about where you went to school. So I think there's gonna be this wave of AI where it's like, oh, you know AI? Here, here's some money. I don't think that's healthy in my opinion, but that's my opinion. Do you think you, you of course remember when Microsoft had the Trojan horse with DOS with the IBM PC and Microsoft ended up being dominant. Do you think OpenAI can pull a similar kind of judo move with Microsoft? Well, OpenAI is gonna be interesting to watch. If they're gonna be the single source of LLM, large language models, that's gonna be in contradictory to what I think is gonna be the wave, which is large language models working together and then threaded together with some sort of fusion around code and like a DevOps model around data. I don't think they win on the monolithic where we are the source of all things LLM. They have to have integration with other models and that's gonna be to me the winner or loser. Again, that's coming down to the old proprietary or loosely coupled, highly cohesive. And I think the web services market proved that that's a better model. So we'll see. I mean, I don't know. I mean, my guess is that it would go against OpenAI. I think OpenAI could be the Netscape of AI. I think, yeah, which means they get out fast and there's all this hype and then somebody else beats them. But the other thing too, I wanna point out is I think that the enterprise application of AI is gonna be different. It's gotta be cleaner. It's gotta be more accurate. All the ethics and privacy, all that other stuff. It can't be as error prone as chat GPT when you're talking about security or logistics and supply chain or running a warehouse and robots or a smart factory. So the enterprise AI is got a much higher bar, I think, than what we're seeing with chat GPT even though I love playing with chat GPT. Well, we're gonna come back to the section 230 in DC Supreme Court, but the big guys have an advantage on the AI, Dave. And I think the phrase I liked I heard from my podcast with Amar Awadala and his team was this new term called prompt engineering. We're prompting the AI as the skill. That's the engineering talent of the new AI DevOps like mindset. And I think that'll be codified. I think you're gonna see a lot of apps. This is what the top alpha geeks are talking about, Dave. They're like all over this AI. And then you got like the big banks banning it. Like the UNC discussion last week where they're don't let people use at school and you got big banks, you got Goldman, Morgan, all the top New York banks are banning chat GPT. And then you got a tsunami of startups on the other hand just coming in, getting funding left and right and all the alpha in the know people are saying this is the next big thing which we're saying too. So you got an interesting market. Shut it down, let it go. That to me is interesting. But you saw they also, you saw the medium post that professor from Wharton said, I'm forcing my students to use generative AI so they can learn how to prompt. He was an awesome article if you haven't seen it. I know you did, you shared it with me but he gave five progressively more sophisticated prompts. And I think that's the right model. You have to learn how to interact with the system and that level of creativity should be taught, not banned. So the question on the table is, that does this give the big players like Amazon, Google, Microsoft, LinkedIn, these large hyperscale content markets the advantage over any startups? Because just this week, Dave, in DC, section 230 of the Telecommunications Act of 1996 is being argued in Supreme Court and it's a contentious argument about the big companies and that section. So is it the law or is it the companies that are causing innovation stunting or is it, are they actually helping innovation? You know where I stand on this. What's your take on section 230? Well, first of all, let me say it, market forces are much more powerful than I think our government intervention, having said that something like section 230 could put some handcuffs on the large companies if in fact, although right now it looks like the Supreme Court is going to rule in favor of the large companies. Like how are they going to be able to adjudicate here? But I think in general, it's hubris, it's market forces, it's like the article about Google that is so sort of inwardly focused on not, on pleasing everybody that they're missing some opportunities. And so I generally think when we oftentimes feel like, oh, these companies are at a peak, it was like reminds me of Windows 95, Microsoft in 1995, Microsoft will never be beat. And then it was like decades that they were in irrelevance. And I think just technology moves so fast, open AI came out of nowhere as a perfect example of a potential disruptor to all these big tech companies. Well, I think that the section 230 discussion, the question isn't about the big tech companies, the question is, did the section 230 cause all the harm? Or was it the tech companies that did it? So, you know, if you look at some of the arguments there, what is section 230 about? It was written in 1996 and it was last updated in 1934. So you got 1934, 1996, 2023. In 1996, Bill Clinton was president. The internet was just starting. The web had a handful of websites. So section 230 protected free speech and allowed the online platforms to develop these innovation. So the question is, what's better right now for section 230? Is it, does it help innovation or is it hurt innovation? Does it create more competition to replace Facebook? I mean, Facebook really is a monopoly at the end of the day. I mean, who's going to take on Facebook and Instagram, what's that? Nobody. And if section 230 doesn't get fixed. TikTok. TikTok. Not if it gets banned and it was now banned in the European Union this week. But it's a proxy for disruption, right? I mean, somebody else will do the next TikTok. I mean, I don't buy that these companies are insurmountable. But you know, again, I've said last week that if a company is behaving like a monopoly and using its monopoly powers illegally, it should be regulated by the government. No question about it. Well, section 230 Dave is about who's responsible, not about monopoly. So is Facebook responsible? Is Facebook responsible for the death of that person from ISIS? It's a hard one to argue, I think. I mean, you're basically, I'm inferring from what you're saying that they are responsible. But, you know, I mean, I think ultimately it's the individual. It's the person who pulls the trigger, not the gunmaker, right? But not that you shouldn't regulate, you know, certain firearms, but yeah, it does what's section 230. And I think it was, even though it's an old law, I think it was written, you know, very thoughtfully. And so I think there's probably certain guardrails that you can put on these large tech companies. And I think they have pigged out on advertising. So I think that's fair. But the backlash that's coming from that, you got to be careful what you wish for and the unintended consequences of limiting free speech. Yeah, and I think section 230 can't be changed to support the big tech companies. I think there are two different issues. The big tech companies versus the section 230 has to promote competition. I totally agree with you on that. Competition is critical to keeping everyone in check. I mean, I think the bad behavior from all this is from the big tech companies because they had no incentive to be checked on that. And I think that's the one thing that section 230 is a little bit outdated on is in 1996, there was no internet the way it is now. So a completely different environment. But it was designed to protect free speech and promote innovation. That is the tenant of section 230 in the decency act as part of the Telecommunications Act. Hey, do we even use that word anymore? Telecommunications? I mean, we're going at Mobile World Congress, telco industry, what does it even mean to be a telco? But I do kind of liken it to the Second Amendment that was sort of alluding to that before, whereas, okay, you're not going to ban guns, but there's no reason you can't have more control, banning assault weapons, having background checks, things like that are prudent. And when the founding fathers wrote the Second Amendment, they couldn't imagine the power of firearms, just like you're saying, back in the 30s and the early days of the internet, we couldn't imagine how this could be abused. And so certain guardrails should be put in place, but I don't think it's right to completely flip the law. I don't think that should be the outcome. Well, I mean, we'll see. I mean, we're watching that closely. I mean, the companies can get sued. We're a media company. We can be sued for what's on our properties. Facebook, those go, hey, we don't post anything. So it's a very interesting, we'll see how there's a huge, huge discussion. This ruling will be pretty epic. It's going to impact all the big guys. We'll be watching it. Of course, they all have cloud computing technology and large language models. So again, I think there's so much change coming. I'm anti-government. Personally, you know my viewing on this. So, you know, we'll get to that in our rant section later, but let's keep on the news. Telco disruption, you got Amazon launched, the new Telco cloud native world going with their new product, Telco Builder. You got HP just bought a private cellular company. A lot of stuff going on on this telecom world, Dave. Mobile const around the corner. Cloud native is going to drive train down the tracks to crush the Telcos. Are they playing chicken with the train? Or what's going to happen? What are your opinion on this? Well, I think that the Telcos are definitely ripe for disruption. And it's the fundamental trend, as we've talked about, is the disaggregation of the hardened Telco stack. When you break that in, we've seen this movie before. When you break it into horizontal layers, that just opens up competition. It also opens up, you know, seams as well. So you got to have the ecosystems, then the cloud is right there for that disruption. The one thing I would say is that is in the favor of maybe some of the legacy companies is because the cloud is generally outpaced, the Dell's and the HPEs and the Cisco's and IBM's of the world and Oracle's, but this market's going to move very slowly. Number one, number two is a lot of the Telcos are really paranoid about the cloud doing an end run and putting in their own private networks, putting in their own local zones and bypassing the connectivity requirements of the Telcos. And so I do think there's going to be a hybrid model that emerges. And then you saw, you mentioned the HPE by Ethernet, Dell had a deal with them to do private networks and HPE, like the next day or two later, buys the company. So now I guess Dell and HPE are partnering so that's probably not going to last too long, but there's so much going on in that business because it's super large, it's entrenched, but it's blowing up in ways that are really kind of interesting, exciting and kind of hard to predict. And the last thing I'll say about this is, the 5G networks have taken a long time to build out. I think the hype, it's not lived up to the hype and we've talked about this going to take years, but it's going to happen, it absolutely has to happen. And then there's this whole other conversation around energy because as we blow out the 5G networks at massive scale and bring in all this new data and throw AI on it, AI is compute heavy, it's going to suck up so much energy. So the sort of the greening of the network, I think it's going to be a big deal this decade. I think that brings up a great point. I was kind of hinting at that and you kind of helped me think about it differently is the 5G and all the telco innovation has been slow and they've had a monopoly too. They've had positions with the poles and the transit. Cloud native, okay? And discussion of edge computing is huge. So I think the battle, the HP buying, the company that Dell was doing business with as their ace in the hole for private and wireless for enterprises, you're starting to see this battle at the edge day. This is like the next frontier. We brought it up last week on the pod. This is more evidence that the distributed edge, cloud native edge-enabled computing is coming through the telcos. The carriers will either adopt or be crushed. But how do you crush a carrier that's got all that footprint? This is an interesting game of chicken. As the train comes down the tracks, the telcos are sitting on the tracks. Who's going to move first? How long can you stand there before you get run over? I mean, that to me is my angle on this, is that it's clear that cloud native is coming and how fast can they gear up and not get run over? Yeah, and the big question, John, is in a world without telephone poles and wires, can the telcos move beyond connectivity? I mean, they've lived off of connectivity for decades and they've not shown that they can move fast enough. Having said that, they're really good at making networks reliable, you know? And providing really good service levels. So who's going to do that? You know, especially in this world of open-ran and on open ecosystems. And so, you know, telcos are engineering firms at their heart. And so I think they're going to have a hand in this. And I think they've got to embrace cloud native. There's no way around that. You know, the question is, can they move fast enough and dip their toe enough into the cloud to sort of keep them close? You know, keep your friends close, your enemies closer kind of thing. Can they play that game with the cloud players? So they're going to have to. Well, they've got a lot of stuff going on. A lot of stuff already hitting that kind of ties into national security, we'll get into that. But while we're on the mobile telco angle, Chinese military researchers say China plans to build and deploy a network of 13,000 low orbit satellites before Starlink. Network is complete by 2027 from the South China Morning Post. So Elon Musk, Starlink, it's also the one year anniversary this week of the Ukraine war, which by the way has survived all the Russian, you know, sort of cyber warfare, which you know, it's been known that the Ukraine has been a test kitchen for all Russian cybersecurity maneuvers. That's like their beta playground. And now Ukraine has survived all that with help of the United States and allies as we're learning from our reporting is that it's been a huge win. So you got China, Russia, now you got China with satellites, they could drop down satellites from space and control networking from there. So that's going to be a huge discussion point in the future. And I think at Mobile World Congress, you're going to see a lot of international China phones being discussed. So be ready to see next week, Dave, when you're there, what the international vibe is. Okay, you got the European commission banning TikTok for any employees on their phone. That's a surveillance question. So China's got low hanging satellites before Starlink, telcos are being disrupted by the cloud players. This is going to end, this might not end well, or maybe. John, you remember when we were at Mobile World Congress in 2021 in July, June and July of 2021 and Elon Musk came in via satellite and he was asked what's your intention here? And the first thing you said is not to run out of money, like every other, like all the predecessors before me. So now you got the Chinese government can fund that build out. And to your other point about Ukraine being a proxy, the future of war is what's playing out in Ukraine. Yeah, there are bombs and terrible destruction, but it's also cyber. And you're talking about satellites, that's going to be the future of warfare that we're looking at here unfold right before us. And on that note, I just want to say this week I was at a chance to meet up with John Markov, former New York Times writer. He was hosting a book reading in Palo Alto by Nicole Perloth and she wrote a book called This Is How They Tell Me the World Ends. 10 years of research on cybersecurity. She opened up the zero day marketplace story. She broke that story, real in-depth report. She's the one who told me about the test kitchen vibe that Ukraine was essentially a test kitchen for the Russians. I mean, they were doing all kinds of things, taking down the power grid, shutting off utilities. She was actually there in Kiev when it actually happened. So real interesting dynamics going on. And then her point was, is that during the Ukraine war now the allies have all helped the United States and others, Russia got beat by them in the cyber game. So the little subplot to the whole Ukraine war is that there's been a cyber war going on in their own turf. It's like a home game for the Russians and they still lost. So it's very interesting to see how the cyber warfare is gonna continue when the red line is still article five and no one will drop below that line unless there's loss of life. And then I said, this has been examples of fetal monitors dying in hospital ransomware attacks where infants were killed. That's technically a US death. So there's a whole military doctrine debate going on around how to handle cyber warfare. This is going to be an ongoing point to this podcast, Dave, I'm telling you, this is not going away. I remember when I interviewed Robert Gates on theCUBE and I said to him, yeah, but don't we have the best cyber technology? Can't we go in the offense? He goes, yeah, we can. But the problem is we, we got a lot to lose as well. So our critic, I mean, the attacks on critical infrastructure this year are, I thought I saw a stat the other day up like 40%. And so the US is more vulnerable because we're such a successful country. In Nicole's presentation, she mentioned, I don't know if this is in the book, I haven't gotten through the book yet, but she said that one of her research came up from a source was the NSA had the jewels on all the best hacking technology, best ransomware, best code to fight cyber warfare and be on the offense. Well, they got hacked and someone took the entire arsenal of tech code that went into the open market. That created the beginning of the zero day marketplace and other nefarious actors. Because once the NSA's got robbed, that was out in the open market and it's been going on since. So a lot of roots of the tax from solar winds to Equifax, all the big hacks stuck next, all that stuff, Dave, it's all because the NSA got hacked. And the next wave is AI. The attackers have AI and they're going to be applying AI to identify and scale and they're already highly automated, but they're going to take that to the next level. You've already got AI writing code. People joke, well, it's writing bad code and humans have to debug it. But nonetheless, AI is going to allow the attackers to just be more effective. So a lot of digital disruption, a lot of news, we'll get to the earnings in a sec, but I want to bring up something while we're on the big digital disruption. Notable news, AWS got their one medical billion dollar, four billion dollar acquisition, I think it was four billion approved by the, got approved, no FTC action. There was threat that there was action going to be taken on that. And that's interesting. That's a healthcare opportunity where you bring Amazon Prime to healthcare. Yeah, I mean, I've said this many times that the most interesting thing to me about digital is that these big large tech companies, they have a dual disruption agenda. On the one hand, they're providing horizontal technologies across the technology world, cloud, storage, server, compute, AI, et cetera, data. As well, they're disrupting, whether it's finance, healthcare, grocery, logistics, not always successful, but they're able to do that because digital is data and they're able to traverse industries. Like you've never seen this before. Used to be if you're in a particular manufacturing industry, you stay there and that's changing. Yeah, this is the show me the money part because Dave, this is the section we want to get into. You look at the success of the earnings season that came out. You see the one medical type trend. That's healthcare, that's more service oriented. You're starting to see these industries being refactored. So there's almost a trend where you're starting to see the visibility into what's working and what's not, right? The earnings that are doing well, Palo Alto Networks, NVIDIA, others are failing, there's a pattern on it. If you're not on this right side of history right now, which is cloud native, scalable apps, super cloud, you're not doing well. You're seeing the earnings. Take us through your thoughts on NVIDIA had earnings that was interesting, Palo Alto Networks. Yeah, so I think two examples of Palo Alto Networks be pretty significantly and great margins, great operating margins. And their story has always been consolidating all these bespoke tools and they're executing beautifully. And they're also, they're dealing with the macro very well. We know that deals are getting broken up, large deals into smaller deals. There's more approvals and sequence of events that have to occur and Palo Alto got way ahead of that. So, you know, pops to them. I mean, really strong story there. I think NVIDIA is different. NVIDIA actually didn't have that great a quarter. I mean, the company's revenues dropped 20%. It did guide strength in data center, but I think a lot of it is momentum around AI. They're saying, hey, all this new AI and chat GPT stuff is going to require NVIDIA chips. And we think that's a huge upside for us. It kind of replaces the crypto buzz, which I'm still high on crypto. I think it's good, we'll be good there. We can talk about that. But I feel like NVIDIA was more, Jensen was his visionary self on the earnings call. So I think they were quite different. I think Palo Alto is executing. NVIDIA is more speculative with a company that has really the pole position in AI chips. Well, I mean, also gaming, right? Gaming, everyone loves gaming. Totally. Everyone wants the GPU. And they mentioned that's coming back. So yeah. Yeah, GPUs are there and you got the cost there. I mean, there's so much money coming into the startups now, Dave. Seed and early stage startups are booming. Series A startups are not doing well. This is the best time to do a startup right now. The VCs are in the trenches. You start to see the success formula. It's scale, it's data, it's AI, the general AI again. There's more, again, this is gonna be a bubble, I think for sure, with gen AI. And I think gen AI is going to trump the crypto entrepreneurial formula. So I think if you look at some of the trends from a funding standpoint, from what I'm hearing in Silicon Valley and seeing directly is there's no funding for anything NFT related. That's dead, okay? Crypto, on hold. Yeah, this might be some deals done for some boutiques, but all the alpha entrepreneurs that were deep in the tech side of crypto and blockchain are moving into AI because it's flush with cash. I mean, the spraying of the money around for seed funding for anything AI related is pretty hot right now. That's not being talked about in the press right now, but certainly here in Silicon Valley, you raise your hand with an AI startup and you have chops, you're gonna get funding. Like in a nanosecond, there's plenty of capital. So that's gonna be very interesting. The crypto alpha geeks are going to AI. I do think those worlds are gonna collide. I mean, the whole premise behind blockchain and crypto is cutting out the middleman and driving more efficient markets, whether it's FinTech or HealthTech, et cetera. And I think AI plays a role in that. I think those two worlds are gonna collide. And I don't think they're mutually exclusive is all I'm saying. You mentioned competition and the first move advanced for open AI and chat GPT. I was shown a demo today of Notion is one of those AI companies. They just launched their own AI piece of it this week and it's getting rave reviews. That's more AI hitting the scene. Again, you got Google with their kind of competitor. They didn't really kind of downplayed it. And then you got obviously open AI and you got Amazon. And then you got the people banning it. So I think that's a signal of a market. Why would the banks ban chat GPT? Okay, when on the other hand, everyone's starting companies around it. Not ready for prime time. Is it security? Is it liability? Is it fear? I mean, I know a lot of people I've talked to like, I'm really nervous to put out anything that's AI related because I don't know what the impact's gonna be. There's a little bit of a fear there unless you can control and prompt it properly. Like some of the things we've used it for use cases and others have had success with. But generally the vibe is like euphoric but scared. What do you make of that? I hope I'm not miss speaking here but I think in one of the earnings calls, I think it was Palo Alto Networks and the Kesha Aurora, I think it was said he was on a plane to India to give some speech. And he took a speech and he ran it through chat GPT. He said, oh my God, it made it so much better. And CEO of a major company saying, wow, this is just making me a better communicator. And then I think, you know, your point about the banks, you remember the banks were like, oh, we'll never do crypto and then crypto is crap. And then Jamie Dunn was like, hey, we got this crypto thing. So I mean, they're just, look it. You think they're just not first movers? I think it's greed and fear. Right now they're in fear mode and when the money's there, they'll start getting greedy. Talk about the memo you saw, the newsletter around the professor because I think this is really the catch here. There are people that actually know what's going on with the AI and the people who don't. And the ones who don't tend to are in a wait and see classic maybe first follower or the last ones to come on, come through. But right now the first mover, early adopters are all over this. They're very positive on this. Genevieve. I was last Saturday morning, I was talking to my wife and my daughter and I was like, hey, and I was doing this chat GPT example. I think I'm being obnoxious with them because I'm always talking about chat GPT and running stuff through and having to write poems and like, look at this, look at this. And so, and I said, John and I talked on our podcast last week about UNC banning it. I think that's a big mistake. And I got this visceral reaction from my wife and my daughter like, no way. I don't blame them because it's cheating, et cetera, et cetera. And then the flip side of that was the professor at the Wharton School, which was my argument was, no, you have to learn how to interact with the machines. It's that creativity that should be taught. It's humans and machines working together. And what this professor did is he said, I am, I'm showing my teaching my class, forcing them to learn how to do progressively more sophisticated prompts and to observe how much more, how much better the quality is when you prompt it and what knobs you can turn and how powerful that is. That to me, John, is the future of humans and machines working together and should be taught. Yeah. And I think, I think what you're getting at here that something I talked with Amar Awadal about at Victoria and Ed El-Leney is the chief operating for again, former cloud era, big data guys. So they know a little bit about this. The applications are, you know, enthusiastic. People are seeing the euphoric about the chat GPT. People see the value instantly, but there's a kind of an, those are the application side of it. There's going to be a slew of new super apps or AI apps that are going to come out and it'll be embedded in. But David, if you think about this next wave of generative AI, it kind of looks the same as AWS. And I mentioned this with Swami from ADES when we talked, the early days of AWS was, you didn't have to provision a data center to get code going. That was the entire premise of the early days of Amazon web services. You know, if you were a startup, there's no way you'd buy servers on a router and go get a rack in a colo. You would provision it on the cloud, pay a little in your credit card, pennies on the dollar, a value, really amazing. And then became the undifferentiated heavy lifting. In AI, it has the same effect as the large, these large language models are like, in the old days, the provision was heavy, you expensive, you had to build it out, build out the training, it was very expensive. And I think now what Swami was getting at and what Omar Awadallah was getting at is that with the new situation, an ISPAS SaaS concepts emerging. There's infrastructure, there's a platform. At the end of the day, it's the app set matter. So you start to see these early developers of AI apps looking a lot like the developers that were jumping on AWS. Swami lit up like a Christmas tree. So, oh my God, you're totally right. And Omar's like, absolutely there's gonna be a tsunami of apps, the next Dropbox, the next apps that were built on AWS, Airbnb's, they were all built on AWS will be on this new LLM. So the LLMs are now do all the heavy lifting. That's the Amazon story, that's AWS. I think it's a powerful image that you're portraying it because you're right, Amazon turned the data center into an API and large language models and generative AI are going to turn many, many tasks, provisioning IT, being just one of many writing and drawing so many things. They're gonna, this is gonna turn those capabilities, those services into human language interaction. So you're going to be speaking or typing, but communicating in the English language to fire off all these services out of the box. I mean, that is really game-changing. Think about some of the conversations we've had in theCUBE, I remember saying years ago, Dave, Google can't search what John and Dave said on theCUBE, tell me more, chat GPT can, if we take our language models for theCUBE and said, hey, John and Dave talked about SuperCloud, can you get the definition of what John and Dave said? It would spit it out. So that's not a query you can type into Google. You can't say Google, what did John and Dave say? So that's gonna eliminate forms. Hey computer, like Star Trek, get me a hotel in Barcelona, I need extra leg room, flight and here's my price point, done. Here it comes back. So this begins the interface, that's the application. So this is limiting, making things so much efficient and easy. This is why I think it's a game changer. The memo, oh my God, a great memo, better speech, better blog post, that's kind of a reality we see, but it's going way beyond that. It's going to be an interface. I thought Nier Zook said it well on theCUBE. He said, within five years, he said, we was talking about socks. He said, within five years, every sock is going to be AI-powered. Not going to replace your job, but every sock is going to be AI-powered. I think so many jobs are going to be AI-powered within five years. Not all jobs, AI's not going to rake your leaves for you, but it's going to, anything that's cognitive is going to be AI-powered. There's no question in my mind within the, well before this decade ends. Well, Dave, let's get into areas that you think this week were cringe worthy or newsworthy from a rant standpoint. I know you last week, you opened my eyes to the FTC and I then checked it out, the Wall Street Journal article had a report that the commissioner of the FCC had quit through Lina Khan under the bus. And that was interesting because I'm like, you brought that to my attention. I'm like, hmm, I never really looked at that way. So interesting, the FCC, FTC, commissioners gone? What's- Yeah, it gets worse. You know, the tech lash continues and the attack on big companies. The story came out this week, the FTC was colluding with the EU to kill, an $8 billion acquisition of a startup in the genetic sequencing space. So Lumina was going to buy this company, was trying to buy this company that detects the probability of cancer. The US Chamber of Commerce had to use the Freedom of Information Act and sue the FTC to get the relevant docs, which again, show the FTC had concerns about the potential for making it harder to compete. No evidence necessarily. The point is the FTC continues to force its anti-tech, anti-big company agenda in ways that lack transparency, doing end runs, and they better be careful what they wish for because their actions run the risk of making the US less competitive. As was the case, I would argue with Nvidia and ARM. Instead of supporting that, the US government sued Nvidia and killed that deal with the EU. My opinion, big mistake. So what does that really mean? Why is that happening in your opinion? Is it just incompetence? Is there an agenda? Is it political? Because you're starting to see, this is the whole S section 230 that gets me pissed off, is that there's so many politically and social justice warrior agendas involved that have nothing to do with the outcome for users and society. Yeah, I mean, you know me, I'm like down the middle politically, but Lena Khan was appointed and approved to the FTC, not as chairpersons. That was a move later. So she sort of slid in. And I think it would have been a different confirmation process that they said, okay, she's going to be the chairperson because she has an agenda. She's trying to change the standard by which, you know, monopolies or big companies are regulated, not actual damage to consumers and illegally using monopoly power, but the potential for that. And that is, I'm not saying it's necessarily wrong, but to put that kind of power in one person's hand, I think is really dangerous. And the unintended consequences, especially when you like say, you got China floating satellites disrupting, trying to lead an AI, you know, you start attacking. They've got China balloon, they're talking about the China balloon that fell down. What is, it's a big thing, but they got 13,000 satellites going to be roaming by 2027 and talking about taking over the, taking over the new frontier space force. Space is the next navies, the next, it's like another war zone. It's going to be a battle, highly contested and highly congested environment. And there are no rules of engagement in space. I mean, there's going to be a satellite war, in my opinion, coming. And the next battleground is AI. You know, AI and chips, okay? And we're limiting China's access to a lot of semiconductor technologies, but China's all over AI and you've said it earlier in this episode, who's the big AI players? Amazon, Microsoft, Google, et cetera. And the US government is basically attacking them. And that could have consequences. That is so funny. I was going to bring this up in my ranch section. I got a pitch from a PR firm. The adult industry is adopting AI. They're having porn stars versus AI stars, porn stars. So you have, this is real news. This is what's really out there. Dave, I mean, really? The adult industry, real porn stars against AI bots. That's real. Speaks this. Yeah, okay. What's your reaction to that? I guess it's like. Well, you know, porn is, porn is always the early adopter of technology, gaming. Yeah, porn and I guess hackers are always the head of the game. It's going to be, everything will be AI-infused. My point, my point is, AI war, AI, you're starting to see adult industry. Every vertical is impacted by AI. Again, this is just more proof that we're kind of going down a new societal impact role. What is the, what's the rules of engagement? What's real? What's the truth? What's going to be synthetic? What's going to be legit? I think there's going to be a lot of struggle. I mean, I was, I had in the, here in my rant list here, social media is causing depression issues for, you know, younger teens, especially females. So social media is causing kinds of problems, calls kinds of anxiety and issues. So, you know, there are societal impacts to, I won't say regulation, I'm not saying I want regulation, but you know, there is a responsibility while Facebook's printing money with their amazing targeting system, they look the other way and broke democracy, causing problems. I don't think the social media big giants have done well in my book. I mean, the iPhone's been a great innovation, but I can't say outside of Apple what other companies are actually doing good. I mean, I don't, I don't really fault Apple at all. I think Apple's probably the best. You don't see Apple, they're good on security, they're proprietary, they have good ethics. And Amazon, I will say too, Andy Jassy says, you know, he's got first principles. So, you know, you have some companies that just aren't leaning into the first principles and have any kind of ethics. So, you know, John Markoff and I talked about this again this week in New York City, the AI ethics has been going on for many years, decades actually. So there's a lot of work, I think that's going to come to the surface on AI Dave. This next year, next two years, there's been a lot of work and everyone gets all glammed up by the shiny new chat GPT and then everyone raises scare tactics like, oh my God, security ethics. But it does bring a mainstream. So I think you're going to see a lot more academic folks rolling into the marketplace bringing out research. You'll see new kinds of data emerging. And, you know, it's a health issue. I think Google and Facebook are sort of the most exposed here in this topic, John, because they're living off of ads. I think Amazon's exposed because of, you know, labor and the warehouses and all the whole union thing, you know, Apple with the App Store, Microsoft maybe is the most insulated, ironically, you know, the company that the DOJ tried to take down. But again, I come back to markets are ultimately going to determine the winners and losers. And there will be new disruption. There will be, you know, a next wave of giants. It's this, you know, it's not over. In my view, you're going to, you know, some, whether it's Musk or the next Steve Jobs is going to come out and create something that's going to blow the world away. It may take another decade. But, and I think, you know, it's interesting. A lot of this, a lot of the innovation, you said a great time to start a company. A lot of the innovation that we're seeing today started, you know, mid 2000s, 2006, 2007, 2008 when the economy was in the tank. You know, here we are again with these sort of strange, you know, macro conditions. Valuations are down. It's a great time to start a company. Yeah. I mean, a lot of news, Dave, AI earnings, this new waves coming. Where's the money going to be? I mean, you're on, you're on, you're looking at the charts. You're in, you're breaking analysis. You're doing a lot of work looking at the landscape. You get the cloud native cloud scale going on. Super cloud, you got the edge we discussed. Again, AI will be the wild card in all this, which I think is going to be an amazing thing, notwithstanding some of the societal issues. Startups are emerging. This is the beginning where recovery's come from. So all the action for long game players that are coming into the seed are going to harvest. So again, all this in here in Silicon Valley, certainly from my standpoint, what I'm seeing directly in hearing and observing and reporting on is that there's a kick-ass load of VCs in the trenches. A lot of startups leaning in. AI is obviously the hottest because that brings more of the comp side to it. Blockchain, a little bit different kind of vibe, but overall very healthy. Meanwhile, no one's spending any cash because the economy's in the tank. What are you seeing? I do think, first of all, the economy is very seesaw right now. I've said this the other day, gas futures are getting tanked. Everybody off guard, natural gas. It's like, whoa, we're just slingshotting or seesawing. But I think it's the application of AI that is gonna be a big winner. And I think security is still number one. You got too many players. You got these consolidation trends going on. You got examples like Palo Alto, but there are so many startups right for M&A. So there's definitely money to be made there. But also how AI is applied is gonna separate companies and create new leaders in my view. What are they gonna look like? What do those leaders look like? I think they're gonna create new models of efficiency. I'm thinking enterprise now, new models of efficiency in terms of how infrastructure is managed and deployed and fixes itself, which already you're seeing today. It's how we secure across the networks. And you said this earlier, edge. Edge, huge disruptive factor. And it starts with semiconductors. Arm is the enabler there. It's dominating at the edge. It's got 10x the wafer volumes of x86. And it's got a lower cost, lower power. We talked about power earlier in this whole ESG movement and greening of the network. And new AI inference at the edge is gonna create my view, huge disruption to the traditional way in which IT is done. Well, I mean, a lot going on. We got this Mobile World Congress with theCUBE. That's gonna be next week. You guys are gonna be out there. We saw Tesla news. They're under a lot of pressure with their, the cars, obviously Twitter, Twitter, and that's the whole nother story at all again. I don't have time to dig into that, but you got a lot of new modern evolutions going on, David. I think the generative AI and the AI field right now, to me, I think it's the next big inflection point, like a big one, like a little one, like a big one. Like as big as the PC generation, that wave. As big as the mobile smartphone, iPhone wave. I think this is an iPhone moment, categorically for AI because there's applications. And I think the chat GPT improves to me that that user interface, the application of how users are using it is that that's the C change. And that's just the front end. It's gonna be a back end and it's gonna be scaled up. And I think a lot of companies are gonna jump in to make it easier, more efficient, so people can tap the efficiency. And you know, I asked Amar Arwadala to explain it to me in simple terms, like I'm a two-year-old. He goes, it's like Google Maps with GPS. Before you drive the car, you'd be on a map and then you'd have maps, map quests printed out. And then you have GPS on a map and your car does a four, you never even look at a map. The GPS and the map mashup is great. This is kind of what this is getting into a whole nother level of automating intelligence, automating and prompt engineering into the system. I mean, just that sentence alone is a mind-blower. Yeah, and I think there's consumer angles here that can be enormous. And again, I think the IoT, the intelligent factories, the industrial tech, industry 4.0, all of that is gonna be dramatically affected by AI, AI real-time inferencing at the edge in every industry, fintech, much, much better fraud detection, manufacturing. I think you're gonna potentially see some manufacturing move back into the U.S. and or other parts of the world, India, South America. I think retail, new experiences, just being able to visualize what something looks like, which has been relatively poor and that's gonna change the whole retail experience. It's gonna affect every industry, consumer and enterprise. And I think it's gonna be a new wave of productivity that hits. So I think the three things I walk away with from this podcast that we kind of agree on, Rift on was one, Jenner of AI as a top wave, big time, that you have the cloud-scale edge coming into play with massive disruption, the telcos and indicator, but I'd call that the cloud-native continuation of dominance and enabling, again, next-gen capabilities, super cloud-like capabilities, including more AI apps, for instance, that'll look a lot like DevOps, DevSecOps for AI. And then third, society issues, Dave, FTC, and all this shit going on around our government and the global political landscape. So, you know, Jenner AI is disrupting, you got the cloud infrastructure edge and then you got society that's sideways with tech. What the hell? I agree with your chat, GPT AI, generative AI, the future of war, the future of industry sort of all fits in there. I think telco disruption comes down to the disaggregation of that stack. It's like the Big Bang and telco, that's just going to open up tons of opportunities. And I also agree with you, public policy is going to become incredibly important. I think public policy could be an enabler or it can be a barrier to national competitiveness. And my concern is that we're constricting the latter. I mean, I'm sensitive to doing the right thing and not allowing big companies to abuse small companies and abuse consumers. But again, the unintended consequences of government actions scare me a little bit. Well, I got a lot of good stuff come up next week, Mobile World Congress, we're gonna do a lot of in-studio. We did a lot this week, SiliconANGLE editorial interviews. You can see a lot more video reports to be listening to the pod and watching this pod. You can see a lot more reporting on news that's matters in these areas. We're going to continue to add to more stuff on SiliconANGLE.com with video on theCUBE. So a lot more events coming up, it's going to be a good year for content, sure. And let me just say, if you're at MWC, stop by theCUBE where it stands CS60 right in between halls four and five in the walkway at Congress Square. We got a great setup, it's going to be amazing. So definitely if you have stories or insights, so you see something really cool come by, we'll try to get you on. I'll be in Palo Alto doing live remotes with Dave, you from Barcelona, I'll be in studio doing some reporting and interviews. And also breaking news for us, everyone out there listening. RSA Congress, we actually have space on the floor. theCUBE is going to be there reporting and certainly in studio. We'll be there with the set in media row there up in Moscone in San Francisco and at the end of April for the big security show. So a lot of security, a lot of action with AI. Dave, great to get this pod in. Second one, we've got two in the books. I love it, John, it flies by. And I love doing it on top of my breaking analysis because I've got my clothes on, I'm all dressed up in the studio. You're fresh in the brain, through the RAM, all your topics. The great way to end the week. Well, I like riffing, it's good to put down some of the things we're looking at. And again, if anyone's got feedback about the podcast, we're going to chip away at this, we're going to get our groove swing, I think probably after 10 or so, Dave, maybe 10 to 20 pods will get rolling, get the format down. We'll start bringing in guests, get more news, keep it focused, that was the good feedback, keeping things in chunks, we'll keep getting better. And one viewer at a time, thanks for listening. If you're on YouTube and SiliconANGLE, we're watching and listening. And let us know what you think. DM us on Twitter, LinkedIn, Facebook. We're all, so all channels are open. Thanks for watching.