 If we're a good time in there, Jordan. All right, let's do it. It's all good, man. It's all good. Did you need something? I'm good. All right, all right, here we are. On the metal voice with none other than keyboardist extraordinaire, Jordan Rudis, Hello, everyone. and liquid tension experiment. And of course, my buddy Neil Turbin, co-hosting today. Gentlemen, how are things in the world today? How are things there? How's the lockdown coming along? Is there a lockdown there, Jordan? What's going on? Well, you know, it hasn't, I guess, just still being careful. Hasn't changed too much except for I got vaccinated first one. So that feels a little better. And yeah, I'm just, you know, very busy with the usual making music and doing my thing. Nice. Well, liquid tension experiment three, coming out April 16th on Inside Out Music. Very exciting. We heard it. I go, oh my God. I just, right when you think all the creative juices are gone, there's just another explosion of creative juice. All right. Neil, what did you think? I left that report. I think the new liquid tension three album is really phenomenal, Jordan. And, you know, it kind of opened my mind a bit and made me have to, I mean, I've seen you play live with Dream Theater and at the Gibson Amphitheater back in, you know, a decade ago, basically, and it just, it's kind of interesting to hear, you know, your influence, your story and, you know, kind of do some looking into your background based on other than Dream Theater. And, you know, this is a reflection of such intense musicality on so many levels because of your experience. And I just wonder, you know, challenges of writing a liquid tension song versus experiment, I'm sorry, versus Dream Theater. I mean, is there ever a time where you have a song and it's like, well, wait a second, this is a little bit too crazy for Dream Theater. Maybe we need to do it in LTE or I don't know how that works, but, you know, is that something that you've come across? Well, there's certainly times when I'm with Dream Theater that I'll come up with something that is not necessarily right for Dream Theater. I mean, I'm into so many different kinds of music from like the craziest prog to classical or electronic or whatever. So there's a good chance I might forget about the particular, you know, rules where I'm at and just kind of do something else. But that's all cool because part of what makes Dream Theater unique is the fusion. So if I happen to push a little bit of the boundaries, you know, that's probably a good thing. With LTE, I mean, there's a little bit of that too, but it's a little bit more open to other things because it's not about, you know, the brand, if you will, and there's room to do, you know, other stuff, which is really, really fun. So that's how that band was really born. I was brought into it as, you know, just Jordan Rudis. There were no preconceptions, if you will, about the whole thing. It just came in and did my thing and everybody did their thing and liquid tension was born. But, you know, whenever you do something, you know, repeatedly, whenever a band makes albums, you kind of almost establish an identity. And that identity is cool, but it can also be dangerous because you kind of lock yourself into what people think you are. In the case of liquid tension, that identity is, and even Dream Theater, that identity is comfortable because, you know, we didn't like subscribe to some like pop format or try to fit into something that wasn't exactly who we are. We basically created music, a big part of who we are. So it all worked out. And now going into this LTE3, even though there was more pressure about it because all these fans were, oh, we want liquid tension. We want liquid tension. And that definitely adds to the, you know, it ups the ante for coming up with something cool. But the good part was it worked out because it's a very honest, you know, collaboration, if you will. It's as we don't go into it with our hearts open and we just do our thing and, you know, and luckily it works out. You know, in the digital world of today, Jordan, there's, you know, there's physical and there's digital. I mean, is this more of a, and I was thinking about this. I mean, this is the type of music where, you know, people want vinyl or people want something physical. Do you find that there's more physical versus digital in a project like this, in terms of sales? Oh, just the nature of the releases. You know, liquid tension experiment and Dream Theater still sell a lot of physical merchandise. So I'm not sure of the exact balance, but I know that we're, you know, there aren't many bands that are still, you know, able to do that. So in that, and therefore we spend a lot of time, you know, making sure the packaging is really beautiful. You know, that's a big focus. I mean, if you look at the new packaging for the LTE staff, it's really gorgeous. Yeah, it is. And it's really cool. I mean, it's something that, you know, we want to make something that's really worth having because we know people really still value that. Now, do you find that the challenge in, you know, getting back with liquid tension after, you know, the changes that happen in Dream Theater, lineup changes and so forth. I'm sure that musically, you know, you're used to a certain or accustomed to a certain repetitiveness that you mentioned, at least in personnel and personnel and the music, the sound of the band. And obviously when anybody changes in a lineup, typically what I can perceive is that the sound might change sometimes or maybe it can not change. But in your case, I would say, you know, you guys are all MVPs, everybody all the way, you know, from start to finish all throughout the way, the thinking process, the writing. So I just wonder if that's something that affected, you know, the reason maybe it's been a while since LTE has put out an album in 20 years. So I'm not totally clear on that. You're asking if getting together after so many years or whatever and all the things that happened like affected the whole? Well, in terms of, you know, just obviously there was a lineup change in Dream Theater and then I'm sure you guys have a lot of years together and I just wondered, you know, in terms of how that might have affected the liquid tension album being, in other words, taking 20 years to do that and do you think it would have come out sooner if you would have had a different situation in the past? Well, let me answer it this way. I mean, when we walked in the studio with Mike it had been 11 years since we were all in the studio together, John and I were with Mike and it had been over 20 years since we were in the studio all together as LTE, which was pretty crazy when you think about it. But it really did, but the whole experience really taught me something about time and gave me new perspectives of what that all means because it was so like immediate. It was like we had never been apart and it was over 20 years, it's crazy. As far as the dynamic with Mike, you know, obviously we had Mike left Dream Theater what was it about 11 years ago or something like that. But our resonance, if you will, together in the studio and friendship was so real and comfortable, we fell back into our groove maybe even smoother than it ever was. And probably because everybody, you know, we're a little older, time has gone by. First of all, time heals. So any kind of wounds there were from that 11 year old situation, that was gone. You know, we were just happy to be together. We were happy to make music together. And I think it really showed. And another interesting thing about LTE and speaks to the relationships also and the people is that, you know, what makes a successful band to me is kind of that everybody has, everybody is good, of course, at what they do, but everybody has a particular specialty. There are certain things that need to happen in a band to make it successful. You know, all the musical things certainly you need to be able to, you know, write music, you need to be able to arrange the music, you need to be able to produce it, to record it, but then even beyond that, you need to be able to conceptualize what the offering is all about. Like what is LTE 3? You know, that's a big question. And certain people in our band specialize in that kind of thing. Like Mike is a great example of that. He's so good at like connecting the dots between, you know, albums, like even when we work in Dream Theater, it's just something he just does. He's passionate about that. He's very interested in the fans' perception. He kind of comes at it like a fan himself. And, you know, and even when I joined Dream Theater, I mean, him and John were like, I would know it was so like almost planned in advance. I would almost know like the audience reaction to an album before we put it out because that's a talent that they bring into, you know, the working thing. It would be my talent, you know, you could ask them. But I'm very like fast at like kind of just creating music. I'm always creating music. I'll sit down the piano and out comes, you know, whatever. It might be good, it might not be so good, but a lot of stuff comes out very quickly. So, you know, there's a lot of ideas, but everybody has their thing. And in this case, LTE seems to, you know, and I'm basing this kind of like on the audience reaction because people are really responding to it. So that combination of those skills, you know, like our work and they work together and they allow us to, you know, to do this to create music and to be productive and to 20 years later, you know, come out with another album. Yeah, I think Neil was trying to politely and, you know, kindly say, you know, be working with Mike now, you know. Sure, I think. And it's the elephant in the room. But no one wants to really press on those issues. Sure. I think I answered it. Yes, you did. Yes, you did. You did very nicely. You did a great job. But yeah, no, I did that. You sure? Absolutely. Yeah, I had a couple of other questions I wanted to put out there, Jim. I just wanted to ask Jordan about actually a couple of things. One of them being Chopin and when you first were, you know, going through, you know, in second grade, I'd, you know, seen some videos, some interviews and such. And I know that, you know, just to try to understand, you know, what kind of questions would be interesting for you as well as everybody watching. Yeah. I just wondered, you know, when you landed on Chopin, because, I mean, obviously, there's Bach and there's Beethoven and there's Tchaikovsky and, you know, so many amazing composers and, you know, classical musicians. I just wonder, I know that you've done a number of Chopin pieces in videos that I've seen, you know, when you look out there on the web. And I love Chopin. And I just wonder, you know, when, because, I mean, someone like yourself, I mean, you master those pieces. So I'm just wondering when, you know, like how you view these other composers, like if, you know, who would be your favorite composers and or artists like that. And in classical as well as current music, because I'm listening to LTE, I heard some, you know, a little bit of Rush in certain places. I've heard a little bit of Kansas. And I just wonder, you know, which of those bands might have an impact on LTE versus Green Theatre? There is such a thing. Yeah. So when my personal musical world and influences, you know, there's so many of them, because I really do like so many different styles of music, first of all. So it's, you know, there is that. But classical composers, I mean, I'm a big fan of Bach. You know, obviously you saw me playing a lot of Chopin and that is a, you know, I think Chopin wrote some of the most beautiful piano music ever. You know, there's always a difference between someone who is a composer that writes for an instrument versus someone who is a composer who really understands the way that instrument works. But the piano is a very specific musical instrument and you could write a bunch of notes and chords and somebody could play it on the piano. Or you could write it understanding like the voicing of the piano and the way that it, the sound comes into the air and, you know, the vibration because if you play, let's say a low chord on the piano and the lower register, well, it might sound like Beethoven because Beethoven was really into these kind of like big cluster chords where Chopin would do this thing where he would spread out the low notes. You think about it on the guitar, like if you play too many low notes all at once it's gonna sound really thick and kind of maybe gross. That's why you often separate when you play like a bar chord or something like that the low notes have a bigger, larger interval and then the high notes, you wouldn't have a third, an interval of a third between the lowest string, you know, whatever you're playing a six, seven or eight string, you wouldn't have like a third there. It would sound like much especially if you had some distortion on it, it would be terrible. So you think about, you translate that to an instrument. So Chopin is a favorite, WC, Prokofiev, Rachmaninoff, you know, so many. Bartok is influential. In the rock world, I mean my, my biggest influences in the rock space were the progressive rock heroes. It was like, yes, and Genesis and King Crimson, Pink Floyd, General Giant, Emerson, Lake and Palmer, certainly. And you know, heroes in the keyboard space in rocker, people like Keith Emerson certainly was kind of my personal hero. And Rick Wakeman, also, you know, his six wives of Henry VIII album was very influential to my musical path. Guys like Patrick Maraz who played with Yes and Woody Blues, he actually played in a group called Refugee that where I discovered a lot about how to bend pitch on the mini-mode. We kind of blew my mind because you can't bend pitch on a piano. So yeah, you kind of mix all that together. And you get my attention, that's what you get. You get my input, your input and experiment. I hear all that, I hear all that. Okay, how do you compose a track? I mean, is it a riff? Is it a jam session for this album? What was the, how did you guys compose these tracks? Yeah, a lot of things are born from, like we call them seeds, you know, and the seeds are very often just thought of right at the moment, like John will play something that he's got in mind and that'll trigger an idea that I have in mind. And so even then we offer, you know, we basically put our offer out to the band and say, oh, what about this? And it might be, you know, two bars, you know, some little quick riff or it might be a chordal phrase or, you know, something along those lines. So and it kind of comes in waves. Like, I could get an idea that might be eight bars long, a whole chord pattern and to start playing it. And that could lead very much to the next, you know, the next thing, whether you develop those chords and do something different with them where you say, wow, that's cool, then we should modulate it and then expand it and keep on going and then go back to the original riff. So it's really that, especially in working with like, you know, well, John and I working together as like composers, we definitely feed off of each other. Very often he'll play something and I'll say, oh, this would be great on top of that. He's playing a line like in Beating Me Odds of the new LTE album. It's a good example that he's basically playing, you know, just the main riff and then I come in and I'm playing something different over it. I just, you know, hey, let me compose something on top of that. So, and I work a lot with like musical notation, like I'll sit there with my, you know, kind of always sitting right next to me over here, like just in case I want to write something down, pencil, old school. Okay, good. Neil. Quick question. So, Jordan, you're very, you know, you know, inventive and playing, you know, new types of instruments and working, you know, on the technology side as well as, you know, just understanding all the technology behind it. So, I know that you play an instrument called the Seaboard. Right. And I just wonder, you know, how some of these instruments, I mean, I know you play the Moog, if I'm pronouncing that right. And a lot of, you know, kind of different keyboard oriented instruments and you're playing other instruments. So, I know you play cello, but I just wonder when you're playing, you know, the keyboard on some of these instruments, how do you translate when you're trying to play, let's say a guitar part, that might be as the counting as fast as John Petrucci and it's keyboards that you're playing, but it is a guitar. So, in other words, can you play a guitar at that rate? In other words, to transpose it on a keyboard or it's like you're faster on the keyboard versus let's say a guitar or another instrument, in other words to do the counting, how that all comes together. It's kind of a technical sort of question, I guess. Well, because I'm a keyboard player and I think kind of in a lot of different sounds, like I guess part of what I do is I've studied the articulation of different instruments, like how do you vibrato on a guitar, what's possible on the guitar. So, if I translate that to a keyboard, I can articulate that and make it sound more like realistic. You know, I might do like a, you know, in green theater and like attention, I'm always orchestrating. So, okay guys, time for me to do the French horn track so that I'm playing like French horn lines and voicing that's very much like that's what sound, not only it's a sound, hopefully, but by doing the voicing that a French horn player or a group would do makes it even more convincing. But then when I go to another instrument, like if I play GeoShred, which is, you know, I have a company called Wisdom Music, Wisdom Z that makes iOS apps and our new instrument is GeoShred. And on that, it's a physical modeled instrument. That's the technology that's used to make the sounds called physical modeling. So, when I play like the cello sound on that on the glass surface, I'm really thinking about what's the cello vibrato like? What kind of slide would a cello really do? How fast, you know, would it go? And all that kind of stuff to make it sound realistic. Obviously, my main instrument is the keyboard. There was a day when I played the guitar better than I play it now. But even at my best in the guitar, I wasn't as good as the keyboard. Just, hey, I went to Juilliard when I was nine years old to learn how to play the piano. So there's a lot more structure and foundation in that than any other instrument that I play. But you know, I'm somebody who this is passionate about sound, I'll make sound by banging on something that says a cool sound or sampling it or some kind of an interface that is just interesting. And I'm always looking for interesting, cool ways to express music with technology. So that kind of is my... I think Jordan, you're the Keith Emerson of our generation. You know, like, you know, the Keith Emerson, the Rick Wakeman, you're that guy. I just see you as that guy. So immersed in music. You just don't see that in artists, at least in the hard rock, heavy metal, progressive rock world, as immersed as you are. That's pretty cool. And in a few minutes that we have left, can you give us an update on Dream Theater or...? Sure, I'll give you a couple of updates. First of all, I want to say that I released about three weeks now. I released a solo album called The Chapter in Time, which is available on Bandcamp. It's very mellow for those of you out there who need to take a small breather from all the metal you're listening to and just want to fill and space out. A chapter in time is for you on Bandcamp. And then the Dream Theater album. Yeah, we're looking really good. We've got a great start in writing it. You know, now we're going to be mixing it and mastering it and all the good stuff. I'm super excited about it. It just sounds really, really cool. People are going to love it. It's not coming out for a while, so there's not too much one can say about it at this point. Other than you guys are really in for a treat. It's good to talk. What stage are you at? Are you at? The songs are all done, it's in the bag and we're just going to release it when the time is right, or...? Yeah, we're basically, everybody's tracked and now we're just going to be getting it mixed and getting it mastered and all the things that go into production. Oh, good. We've got a product out the door. So we're in good shape. And your solo album, again, on Bandcamp? That's right. Pick it up, right? I mean, other thing for people to know about is during this break, these last, what is it, you know, basically I'm with a year, I started a Patreon and it's been awesome. I don't know who out there is familiar with Patreon, but it's been a wonderful way for me to share music and to educate and to connect with people. And I just find it to be a great way for musicians to, you know, continue their careers and really reach out to fans directly. And especially in this day and age, any musicians that are listening, you know, I recommend checking it out. Because although it's not the easiest thing to do if you don't have any following, if you do have a bit of a following and you want to just kind of like make it happen on your own, Patreon is an awesome way to do it. And I've had a really wonderful time with that. Yeah, this is real final words. I had one more question for you, Jordan. Sure. I was wondering, you know, on your amazing history, I just wondered if there was ever a time or some times that you might recall where, you know, as a student of music, as someone who's a passionate person about, you know, specific styles of music, was there ever an artist where you said, oh gosh, you know, Chopin or Keith Emerson or like, gosh, I got to learn this. Oh, I'm having, you know, like in other words, you had a hard time or, you know, out of all the music, what was the most challenging to learn or to try to fit in with or try to keep up with? You know, and I mean, you're ahead of the curve, but I'm just wondering, you know, if there was a time where, you know, you're nine and maybe you're trying to perfect a Chopin piece or is that something that just came so naturally that you didn't really require a lot of, you know, revision to get to that place? Right, right. That's a really good question. I mean, people think when they hear like, you know, professional musicians play that are really smooth, you know, or awesome, they think it's just like magic. Oh my God, they picked up the guitar, they sat down at the keyboard and playing with their nose, throwing it behind their back. But you know, it's important for everyone to understand that, okay, there might be a little bit of magic involved or natural gift, but all those guys that we love that are incredible players, they're practicing their asses off. You know, you got John Mayone, who's in the bass, in the basement right now practicing, I almost guarantee it, he's always practicing. John Petrucci, you know, he, when we're on tour, you know, we're not like schmoozing people like before the shows or anything. We have our metronomes on and we're, you know, going up, we're working at the speed and focused and I'm back there, you know, just practicing as well and playing and it takes, you know, a lot of work, but I can remember vividly being like a young person and my teacher would assign me a piece by Frans List, you know, and I would go to the music store on the way home. My mother would drive me to Juilliard when I was a kid and on the way home, we'd stop at, like, Paterson's music store within New York City was one of the stores that sold sheet music and I'd pick up like the Hungarian Rhapsody by Frans List and I'd open the page on the way back to Long Island where I live. I'd look at it and I swear, it looked like just a bunch of black dots on the, I mean, I could read music, but it looked like this crazy mess of black dots on the page. To my mind, it was just like ridiculous looking and I'd bring it home and I would just put it in front of me and one hand at a time, I would try to decipher, you know, what this said. And what was amazing is that, you know, it took a while first the right hand slowly, then the left hand, then you put it together, then you practice it. And as I was going through that process, the music almost like miraculously separated. So it didn't look like black dots all squished together and it didn't have that, like, oh my God, look to it. I looked at it, I went, okay, this is what it looks like. I guess that's just the way the brain works, you know? You look at something at the first time and it's going, whoa, that's really hard. But it takes time. Like what I learned there, and I don't have this kind of patience with everything, but with music I did for whatever reason, that I sat there and I just hashed it out, you know? I took it, it was painful, but I sat there and I did it. And then at the end result, that was like, I could learn how to play these hard pieces and I could play difficult passages because I had the patience to go through the motions to do the work, but a lot of people, you know, in music, especially in any kind of pop or rock music or anything like that, they think there's some kind of like miraculous pill you take that makes you sound like Steve Vai, but there is not, you know? These are guys that have just been through the intensity of training, you know? It's like anything else if you wanna do something really, really well, you just spend the hours to make it happen. Well, I got one more question for you and it's in regards to the integrity and the work ethic. Yeah. I've seen Dream Theater a lot of times in Montreal and when I see you guys on stage, I go, there's no way these guys are using backing tracks. There's a sort of integrity there that, you know, we're here, we're gonna, like you said, we're working up, you know, before the show, we're working it up. Good, yeah. And I mean, what do you think about bands going out there and just using backing tracks? And again, you know, I'm just high level here, you know, versus you guys with this integrity that no matter what age we are, we're gonna pull this off. Yeah, right, right. Well, first of all, I mean, Dream Theater, there have been times when we haven't used any backing tracks. There have also been, especially more recently, times when we do. And every band uses backing tracks pretty much. I mean, you know, we wanna have like backing nice harmonies and stuff like that. We're gonna run some backing tracks. And like, especially when we did the astonishing, there were tons of orchestral things that, hey, one guy and there was an orchestra on the album and we wanted to sound like that. So we ran some of those tracks as well. But that being said, that's just sort of like a little cream on top, right? I'm talking about- Yeah, well, that being said, here's the thing. Like I really value playing as much of whatever it is as possible. I like the energy that comes out when I'm just making it happen, you know? And if I can achieve, and usually that means that I'm gonna be playing, you know, all of it or almost all everything you hear from the keyboard space. But if it's not, and if there's an extra track going on, just because my two hands can't possibly do the third thing or whatever, at least I know that I'm putting full energy. I'm not sitting there with playing a little bit. Well, there's some intense things- We're faking it. We're faking it, right? We're faking it. Well, yeah, it's not what we do. But yeah, when we try, we're very sensitive to, we're putting on a live show here and it's gonna be that we're gonna play it live and it's gonna be the energy of the performance. And I'm okay with any band that uses backing tracks, but you feel what they're doing. They're in it, they're playing, you know, and you just know that it's happening. And so, you know, backing tracks are fine in that case. But if you're like looking at the band, and they're like noodling around or whatever, and this is a huge sound coming out. I guess it's the wrong word, not backing tracks, but front tracks. That should be the proper word where they're replacing their performance with the main performance. That's kind of what I have issues with. I don't, I mean, a guy who's seen a Russian, yes, and there's always stuff happening in the background. That's okay, right? Cause there's just so many things people can do, right? Yeah, right. I think the word, get his foot or something like that to see how we figure it out. I mean, get his playing keyboards, he's playing bass, playing with his feet. What's going on? I think the word would be atmospheric tracks. Yeah. Or atmospheric backing. I'm really okay with that. It's just the primary tracks. Right, right. Well, you want to go, you're paying money. Usually you want to see somebody live exactly playing. Hey, a quick part to the previous question, Jordan, just real quick. I was just wondering since you've, since in second grade, I know that you were, you know, noticed by your teacher at the time for being able to play piano and you didn't have one. So I just wondered, you know, I would consider you to be absolutely an exceptional prodigy at that point. And I just wondering your travels, your experience, if you've, you know, because you're not only, you know, a classically trained musician through the appropriate channels and all, but also, you know, you have a passion for rock music and other forms, jazz and other types of music that are, you know, fusion and Prague. And so I just wondered in your travels, since you have a perception of voicings, you know, you're more than just playing notes on a keyboard. I mean, you have a whole much, a whole nother, you know, different facets and different perceptions that are way past that. I just wonder if you perceived other students or other people and you're, you know, up, you know, coming through the ranks. If you've ever noticed there was someone like you, in other words, eventually I'm sure you did, but I'm saying early on. So when you're first in, you know, class or when you first went to Juilliard, did you notice, hey, this person is, you know, I got to catch up to them or they're like, how did they do that? You know, or were you that person and they're trying to catch up to you or even your own rate, there's no other cars, you know, that's kind of where I'm going. Well, let's put it this way. I got into Juilliard when I was nine and when I arrived there, I quickly met like other kids who were writing symphonies and operas and people, especially the Asian people coming in and playing like the list piece that I hadn't even gotten the music to yet. So I was in probably the place where, you know, most exceptional talents and, you know, driven human beings who were in the world. So I was, yes, over time I did stand out because not only could I play classical music, you know, but also I always had a really good ear and I could improvise and I could play other styles and I would take the kids into the other students into the practice room, wait on the hallway and play blues for them and, you know, boogie woogie and they were like, wow, you know. So it was that part of that, I guess, is what made me like unique. The people that, oh, Jordan, I mean, he plays classical, but he also, you know, he can play all these different things and a lot of the people at Juilliard were very great and narrow, although doing amazing things. And some of them also, you know, gifted other than just this great and narrow, but I did have, you know, I guess something about what I was doing that was, you know, unique. Jordan, the rock and roller of the school, right? Yeah, yeah, although they hated that. My teacher was like, she didn't want me to improvise. I put up something on, what was it, like a loud wire a few weeks ago and I was describing how I walked into, you know, my lesson, I was playing this little Bach prelude and what I played. I started on the first few measures of the music and then I went off and played my own thing and the teacher stopped me and said, you can't do it right here. That's not what this is about, you have to play the music. Okay, that's how it went from there. So the teacher would, you know, kind of a little smirk of smile about my doing the other stuff, but she didn't really want to know about that. She wanted to train me to play Bach and Beethoven and Chopin and all that stuff. Well, she must have done a great job. Liquid Tension Experiment Three to be released April 16th on Inside Out Music. Your soul album, that's pick it up. It was released three weeks ago. And of course, looking forward to Dream Theater and thank you so much for being on the show and thank you for taking the time out. Oh, of course. Thanks guys, nice to see you today. All right, we'll talk soon. Thank you. We'll see you on the road sometime.