 Please help me in giving a warm welcome to Shane McCombs. So I'd like to start out by saying I'm really glad we took the Nerf guns away from Chris if you weren't here for that last one and we're actually doing something really great for the kids. When the idea for speech about vigilanteism when he gave me that I'm like yeah this this won't be so bad I think I can do that and it's not going to be so hard. Well once I really got into it I was like oh good lord just like this little guy here thought he was going to get a really easy lunch I thought this was going to be an easy speech no in fact I ended up feeling like that for good part of the time I was putting this together. It's hard because it's difficult to get realistic statistics it's a challenge and frankly this topic stirs up a lot of debate and it stirs up a lot of emotion and so the goal of our conversation is we don't want to start debate I do hope to get some emotion going but we're not here to win an argument the goal get our thinking stirred up and maybe get us moved to some more action so no debate yes to the action. So challenging the thinking behind the vigilante style of predator hunting when we review some of the challenges and that's what we're going to do that the vigilante style has and incorporates uh into predator hunting we want to be sure that we're doing these for the right reasons and that we're being able to help our children so we're going to look at the challenges see if there's a better way to address it so why does vigilanteism stir us up why does it get us so emotional I believe that it's because vigilanteism actually hits us at our core at human beings when something's not handled right just think about this for a moment I'm going to ask you a lot of rhetorical questions when things are not handled properly how does that set in your gut it's just not quite right right something's out of balance so think about this experience if you have a driver's license have you ever had this happen to you you let someone in the traffic and they don't even bother to do what the little thank you wave right why do we go it's not a life-changing thing five minutes it's not going to make a difference five years from now it's not going to change your life why why did it hit you in your gut because your internal sense of justice was offended you did something for them what should they have done for you see they should have done something back an se we use this to our advantage all the time don't we think about reciprocity I give you something and even if it's unconscious you know you need to get us something back those scales need to be balanced out now think about all the entertainment that we have that's based on vigilantism give me a comic book hero who's a vigilante somebody that's who I thought of Batman right why is this so successful because it resonates with us so vigilanteism means something to us this is the definition that we have three key things law enforcement undertaken without legal authority and by a self-appointed group so I have a question for you guys now I'm going to let you know it's an unfair question okay and what I want you to do though is think about it I'm going to give you three seconds to come up with it in your head what is the answer and notice your gut are you ready is vigilanteism good or bad that's it go every single person I heard someone say both every single person I talked to beforehand went I think it's wait it depends on the circumstances right because it's a really hard question to answer and it's this circumstances the never-ending flow that adds complexity to this style of a conversation that we're having there's some really awesome research it's out there I put the slide up we really don't have time to go into it but it is a really fun read and if you like this type of thing I would highly recommend it because you and I whether we realize it or not are being affected every day by something called shadow vigilanteism this was a great story I wanted to tell you the short story is this see the truck see how it shot up there were 46 people who took took part in that to this day that happened in 1981 to this day the FBI still can't get one person of those 46 people to talk two feature-length movies and on the plane over here I looked up and I saw Sundance TV just released a two-part series on this that was an 81 and it still has people's attention that's why I think it appeals to our core so Robin's talk yesterday and if we're being really honest with ourselves we care about ourselves how does this affect me that's a question so let's now take the concept of vigilanteism and let's really focus it in on predator hunting the chances of us as individuals and families being affected by this it's growing and it's growing all the time and it's very real so let's talk about what our children are facing I'm gonna let you know we're gonna go a little dark and I want you to think about this and try to put yourself in this place so here's the question in your head how many children will experience sexual abuse before their 18th birthday so in your head I'm looking for a one in answer right one in ten one in a hundred one in a thousand what do you think it is you're probably all right here's why look all legitimate studies all things that can cause us we see these numbers quoted all the time so this seems to be very realistic and this is what we'll use for the rest of this conversation one in ten children statistically is an acceptable it's not a stretch to make that happen right now let's just be frank one in anything is too many are we agreed on that this come on guys this should never ever be happening that means that every person in this room has a 10 chance of you or your family being affected by this so that's one in ten based against numbers that are reported what do we know about people reporting see in real life it's probably much higher right so it's a real thing so ask yourself what if I'm the one in how would I respond what would I do likely you're going to go and you're going to seek help from a system that is designed to help you except you get into the system and you find really good people however those people are understaffed underfunded overworked and just like all of us in here they're on that hamster wheel of technology and social media just trying to keep up with the next new thing that's coming out so what do you think the next question is you ask yourself I'm not getting the help I want what am I going to do about it so it's easy to see whether vigilante predators are starting to pop up they're attempting to fill this gap to help out this is a slide that shows very briefly about how this is starting to happen these groups are starting quickly they're starting fast they're beginning to explode and they are tapping our inborn desire for justice if you're not familiar with this here's the predator hunting 101 they initially will go in this general framework and pretend to be a minor they go out on social media they will build a relationship with anyone they'll cast this wide net out there anyone who will interact with them when if the relationship turns sexual in nature it's cultivated and then we come up on an in-person meeting the meeting is recorded or live streamed and the person is what confronted named shamed humiliated by members of the hunter group it's typically what you will often see and then what happens next depends on the group it's anybody's guess does law enforcement get involved etc so that's the the framework of it so let's talk about some of the challenges that these types of groups these types of groups will face let's talk about physical safety who in here is seeing these types of videos okay just a few of us if you choose to watch one physical safety for everyone involved in that situation becomes incredibly apparent almost immediately but here's something that's not so obvious and I would like for you to think about this because remember law enforcement often is not involved if an arrest is not immediate what might that predator go back and do he's been humiliated shamed he's not in a good mood what might he do if he goes back and he has access to a child yeah yeah not it not a pretty thing to think about right safety for all is really really important questions of compatibility capability are they able to gain a conviction we see this challenge over and over it's a legitimate challenge now we're going to give this a shot see how this video plays and I'm going to attempt to interrupt it here in the middle and we'll see how that goes I've had varying success but listen closely to our hunters as their methods could compromise the suspects trial in most of the case I've dealt with the prosecutions failed not because my client was innocent it's because the process deep witnesses the peter far hunters went too far and that the court could not say that had he not been for their direct acts would this person have actually done this anyway the group so I couldn't get it to stop in the middle but did you catch what he said prosecution has failed this is a common theme why this guy even told you the guys he's representing that they're guilty he just said it but they couldn't gain a conviction because there was no capability with the group that was attempting to do this good work so and by the way apparently guilt no longer seems to be enough right this is the world we live in it's a challenge all right questions of legality guys this never seems to end at all these two screenshots are for the police telling they are being told to crack down on the vigilante hunter group not the pedophiles it's interesting right it's a great legal debate what's the other huge legal debate about this the question of entrapment seems to never go away right everybody goes oh I was entrapped I would have never I would have never done that less than 60 days ago this from the michigan attorney general jeopardizing police work is a challenge she she comments I know you're well meaning but essentially this is a cease and desist order because you're getting in our way please stop doing this is what she's asking really legal protection for the hunters we have pedophiles we have people who are we're saying they're pedophiles now turning around ensuing the hunter group think about that one for a minute but it's a challenge that we have to deal with questions of effectiveness now this one could go many different ways there's a lot of different groups different ways we can look at this different metrics one of them as we've already seen is the challenge that they're saying that they're causing more work for law enforcement right so not only does law enforcement have to go out and try to get the pedophile they also have to try to keep the vigilante group under control and then what's that do to the resources starts draining resources right because now we're causing extra work that is a challenge that is another theme that we see here's one that's more obscure but I would love to see more people focused in on it when you focus awareness on just a small slice of a much larger problem what's the side effect of that sometimes the larger issues tend to get overlooked and a lot of times underfunded when we're in the realm of the vigilante predator hunter groups most of that focus is on who it's a stranger right the guy's going to come and get our kids he's a stranger and we're going to hunt him down the numbers they don't support that no matter how you slice them sadly most of this comes from family members and from acquaintances not the stranger finally does the vigilante method teach sexual predators how to get better at hiding from the vigilantes and also from law enforcement okay when these guys go on facebook and they go out there and they go full on open kimono and they show them how they're doing everything because it's all out there you can see how they're doing it all you're doing is teaching these guys how to avoid them right so we never want to educate a predator it's a challenge so it's easy at this point to get caught up in arguments his vigilante is I'm right or wrong in the beginning I heard answers on both sides I'm for it I'm against it I think it's good I think your stats sucked I don't agree with that look right question I think is this is there a way to just cut through the static avoid all those off ramps and challenges and just get on with moving these predators off the street is that a better question I think we can do that and at the innocent lives we think the answer is yes we can do that and avoid by default a lot of these challenges if we adjust our behavior so that's the part where I want you to really start I want to challenge you to think about this we're attempting to build a very different non-vigilante framework that addresses a lot of the challenges it doesn't do away with all of them but it helps to address them let me share with you what I can about what we're doing and this is actually a really good reminder at this point if you ask a question of us and our response is I can't share that with you even if I've known you for years you may hear me say I can't share that with you it's not about trust it's not to share a bad person it's about keeping kids safe right it's about not open kimono and not sharing everything these were the challenges that we addressed this is what we're building with the ilf framework so one of the first things that we're doing is this principle of trying to remain as anonymous as possible and avoid confrontation now that's actually the opposite of the vigilante type process correct they're all about in your face and getting out there so if we can catch these guys by remaining primarily anonymous and avoiding confrontation that means most of the physical safety stuff is done away with we've got it out of the way think about that little kid at home if this if we're doing it right predator never has any idea he's getting he's getting taken out kid is in good shape what about the threat of legal action taken against the hunter group we're not out there breaking the law we're working within certain boundaries so that helps to go away what about being effective it keeps us out of the courtroom which is really important to us and it keeps us focused on our mission of getting these guys off the street that's why we're here and also we're not teaching the predators to hide from us so it really has a lot of possibilities and finally let's talk about capability when interaction is within scope of an engagement how can we minimize the opportunity for failure on our part by only using trained qualified and approved members of the team if you want to interact you're going to have to qualify we're working right now to see what that looks like so it's not a simple thing but it's getting addressed it's odd wording I couldn't come up with something I was really happy with I was wanting to use target selection and it sounded a little cold but we're going after confirmed predators okay instead of casting that wide net and just letting whoever it is that comes back in let's face it the internet is full of a bunch of bad guys doing horrible things in public space they're already they've already broken the law and they think they can hide behind a username and guys if there's any group of people in the world that knows that you can't hide behind a username is the people here let's go get the guys that are already misbehaving and get them out of there when we do that we get to bypass the questions of legality and entrapment finally another opposite of the vigilantism movement cultivation of relationships with law enforcement at all levels when we at the islef when we're able to focus our strength you guys the guys that know how to go out and hunt effectively then we focus that on confirmed predators submit the information through a standard predefined and approved process to law enforcement we can eliminate or drastically reduce a lot of the challenges that we've already been reviewing today they just kind of bypasses many of those and let's just get focused on what we want to do but it's also it's not just about reducing the challenges we've also had some really nice benefits that are starting to surface with this engagement with law enforcement finding the good people within the system guys there are good people out there who are working hard to save our kids we're beginning to connect with them we're starting to build relationships and work in cooperation we're listening to advice they're helping us get better at what we're doing we're also starting to receive invitations to speak directly to large numbers of law enforcement Chris and I are leaving from here to Dallas immediately after because we've been invited to speak at a conference where there's going to be over five thousand members of law enforcement there our goal is to be sure that they understand our concept of the framework and how we can benefit them to help save more kids instead of running the islef as a non-profit sorry guys I can't see my timer um instead of running it as a vigilante group we have made the decision to run it as a business as a non-profit we are incorporating standard operating procedures building best practices we have a board of directors that is diverse and involved we're building technology in-house and we have technology that we're talking to other people about that is just absolutely brilliant we have a wellness program if you're going to come in and you're going to volunteer for us we need to keep a good close eye on your emotional bandwidth because you're rolling on a muck all day long it's hard it's really hard work finally we have ridiculously stringent onboarding qualifications and we're going to talk about that in just a second if you choose that you think you want to volunteer so now it's time for a reality check guys we don't have all this figured out we're still learning we're still trying to ask the right questions we're trying to ask better questions we're trying to learn from our mistakes and the mistakes of others we will continue to look for better answers and we will continue to ask questions that's the only way we're going to get better so I've got a question for you guys now hopefully the goal of the talk has been reached I didn't want to start up any debate I think we managed that I don't see anybody in here angry did we start up your thinking that was the goal do we get you to think about this in a different way if you think that you can get behind what we're doing literally the rest of this is up to you we're right back to this question what am I going to do about it as usually this conjures up two primary questions and the first one is volunteering now I am going to go through this very quickly thank you for moving good job what does it take to volunteer for us obviously you have to have the desire the time the talent we ask that you be over 21 and you are required to follow our wellness program it's not optional you'll fill out a contact form you request to volunteer that there appears to be a fit when we have openings we'll reach out and contact you we're going to go through a prerequisites interview we're going to tell you what to expect we're going to have you sign a volunteer agreement it's basically an employment agreement is zero dollars and then we are going to put you through a background check that is so intrusive it's embarrassing sometimes it's rough for us because we're like sorry we got to do this to you guys but kids are involved it's worth it we're going to be looking at your criminal background financial we're going to be looking for some appropriate access to medical for our wellness program and you also have to have a willingness to be known to law enforcement okay get through that okay sorry you're still not done we're going to a technical interview do you have the technical chops to pull this off we're going to a wellness interview do you have the emotional bandwidth can you roll around in the muck and can you stay healthy and still stay good with your family and everything's good in addition to all that we're also looking for personality fit within the organization finally guys we are a nonprofit right you knew there had to be a donation slide up here so how can you help obviously if none of those things fit you can please donate for us stop by the booth donate for some swag or just make a donation you can also go to the website one time or ongoing we just nailed this up last week if you like really nice sports clothes and you'd like to see it customized with an aisle logo or your name on the back visit our squad locker store we get a slice of that every bit helps what about opm using other people's money doesn't all have to come from you if you already use amazon dude guys just make us your charity of choice and start going to smile dot amazon dot com all right and guess what will happen they will give us money from amazon doesn't cost you guys a thing benedity is are there workplace options will work help match your donation please check that out for us are you an author are you a game developer could you work with humble bundle we can help you are you a twitch streamer who's happy to do charity work can you talk to us please see if there's a good fit see those are your talents that you can give up what about engaging your personal network do you have a connection to a celebrity that might be willing to do an omaze fundraiser with us i promise you someone in here does there's a connection there somewhere you know a philanthropist that our mission would resonate with ask them to talk to us if we're a great fit and they've got money and it all works awesome if not no problem but it is also it doesn't have to be that complicated think about this we've had a twitter challenge to friends we have someone in here who's selling t-shirts when an online store and we had someone that put out a jar at a super bowl game three things those guys raised four thousand dollars for us complete surprise we had no idea any of this was coming so it doesn't have to be this huge thing you have to give up right so did we meet our challenge are you thinking differently i can't answer that for you i hope you are most importantly thank you thank you and thank you for all of your support okay so it looks like i've got time left two minutes okay any questions i will do my best to answer yes go for it so that is a perfect question the goal is to make this self sustainable and scalable so right now we're working through these challenges we're figuring out the SOPs and then our goal is to be able to stamp it out start adding people adding people adding people right so right now i can let you know that last year we had nine cases that were submitted to law enforcement this year already before we got here we're at 63 that's thank you it's a little dent but you got to start somewhere guys and this is this is what we're doing and we think this stands a better chance than the other method does it make sense okay any other questions we've got one more minute left okay yes sir go all right so um we are not working with them directly we have been taking some great advice from them and we have some working relationships i did that answer your question appropriately okay they do right so the question is about uh nigmic right and okay so we're not working directly with them but there are because they have that database there are some really cool platforms out there that are beginning to tie in we're going to be able to take advantage of and work with so hopefully we can tell you more about that later sir and agreeing yes sir we are currently at 26 that includes the six board members and we have uh 11 at the moment in the pit that's our predator identification team okay and i have six seconds left guys thank you very much for sitting here and listening to this i really appreciate it