 Welcome, everyone. We are recording this meeting of the Public Arts Commission for the Town of Amherst. I'd like to welcome everyone and let you know that this recording will be uploaded to the Town of Amherst YouTube channel, and it can also be accessed on the webpage for the Public Arts Commission. At this time, I would like to recognize the chairs, Terry and Tom and thank everybody for their service to their town. Happy holidays, everyone. Thank you, Angela. Thank you. Okay, welcome to December Amherst Public Arts Commission meeting. My name is Terry Holt. I will be your leader. Okay. Here we go. In light of the ongoing COVID-19 coronavirus outbreak, then Governor Baker issued an emergency order on March 12 2020, allowing public bodies greater flexibility and utilizing technology in the conduct of meetings under the open meeting law. In Chapter 20 of the Acts of 2021, this meeting will be conducted via remote means. Members of the public who wish to access the meeting may do so in the following manner. By clicking on the Zoom link, this recording gets uploaded to the Town's YouTube channel promptly after the meeting. No in-person attendance by members of the public is permitted, but every effort is made to ensure that the public can adequately access the proceedings in real time via technological means. And then they are unable to do so or regardless, we will be posting this to the Town's YouTube channel shortly after the meeting. Okay. Roll call. We are all here, but Mikey, so how fabulous. Good to see you all. I don't have treasure report in my agenda. I'm sorry, Robert. Shoot. That's okay. I don't really have anything to report at the moment anyway. Okay. All right. So, let me look at my agenda here. And I'm going to share my desktop, hopefully this one. Share. We've got agenda right here. Okay. First things first, approval of the November minutes. Did people get a chance to look at the minutes? Thank you, Tom, for doing those. Did they, I just tried to find them, but I I don't know what I can share. Yeah, I can see it. Yeah, you can see it. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, Terry, for one thing. The attendance is wrong. Because Jim did attend the meeting. So he should be moved up. Okay. Move approval as amended. As amended. Okay. And then Mikey was not here last week. Okay. Okay. Is that correct? Okay. So. For those of you who did not make it, Catherine Stryker presented her proposal. We had some questions and we were waiting for her to get back to us, but I haven't really gotten that information back yet. Jim, do you have a question? Yeah, we didn't vote on the minutes. I was going through them since I don't know if everybody got a chance to go to read them. Oh, I was just going to pick out some key, some key things, mostly. We got to see that. Um, I can send this out for people who haven't seen it. Robert, do you need to copy of this? Yes, please. Okay. Thank you. Anybody else? I do. I'm going to just do a share right from here. As long as you guys have Google docs. I hope I think this works. If I do this. All right. Let's take a, see if that works. So let's hold off on approving these minutes until we get a chance to look them over. So we're going to hold off on that. Let's go and talk about the for want of a nail. And I think we've all got something to talk about here. I'm trying to get my view here. She did. I did get a bunch of documents. Um, That were sent right of the list of. Her. Who she talked to and all of that that we'd asked for. So that was sent by Angela. That was kind of a, an overview of what she has done so far. Uh-huh. And it's kind of a timeline. You'll notice that. Right. Started this project in October, 2022. And then she went through some other steps, but she didn't get to us until October. So, um, we really haven't had enough time to really go through this and ask all of our questions. So, um, That's the one, the statue, right? Yes. So there's two. Project. Not to mention the fact that we asked for a number of documents. And got zero. Yeah, not yet. So, um, There are two parts of this project. There is an exhibition of the, uh, artifacts that she found along with a narrative. And I guess an interpretation of the history of blacksmithing. And that's all supposedly going to go into the library. Um, so I think, you know, I don't, I didn't really have a problem with that. It's not really under my purview. But, um, the statue is under the public arts preview. So we do need to look it over and do our due diligence. I did ask them to reach out to the DEI. Um, I talked to Pamela from the DEI and she says she has not received anything. She couldn't find any emails or information. About this. And then I talked to Gigi. Barnhill at the Amherst historical society. And she said, she really, no one's reached out to her, but she says, she doesn't think they have any say in it. And I just said, we're trying to bring more people in to get their opinions. So. So that's where we are on that. Do you already got a question? Oh, yeah. Um, I don't really understand why the North Amherst library people. Haven't commented on this. Have all of you gone and looked at the space that is. Being talked about for the, where this would go. Yeah. I've seen the space. And it's, it's tiny. It's almost on the road. It's not a very big statue. I don't think it's not going to be. She talked about how big it had to be to be tall enough for people not to get hurt by it. Right. So we don't even know the dimensions of it really. I don't think, do we? Tom, did you get a good sense of the dimensions of this? Only what I could surmise by looking at her pictures. So I'm guessing that it's something like maybe at most three feet high. But she said when she was in the reference to my comment about. It being an attractive business, then she said it was going to be four and a half to five feet high. Yes. On a pedestal. Yeah. Including the pedestal. Right. Well, I'm just, I feel really. Steamrolled on this. I think we're listening to somebody. I don't know. I think we're listening to somebody who may be very well intentioned. Yeah. To do something nice, but doesn't have the substance to do it. If she gets the substance, then I think that we should consider it. But right now I don't think that we have anything to consider. I think that we still are lacking information and. Feedback from the DEI. I have. Written up a draft of a letter I'd like to send, and I've shared that with Tom. And it's basically saying, I can read it. I mean, it's right here. If you'd like to read along with me. I just came up with this. I don't need to read it out loud to you. You can read yourselves. So this is just basically a. Hey, we need more time letter. I think that that is the appropriate response at this time. Until we hear back from about the stuff we've asked. Her to give us for consideration. So I talked to Angela Mills about it too, to get kind of context of town hall. And she agreed that like, if we don't, we can't come up with any kind of decision because we don't have enough information. So we need to delay our decision making. So. The second sentence where you say we all admire your research, your passion at work. I can't be a part of a sentence that says that because I don't feel that way. Okay. We can just. I would just strike the sentence. Yeah. That's fine. Also, I think that I would like to have a very explicit. Request for the information that we requested, including the contracts for the construction of. Including, but not limited to, excuse my language. For include the contract for construction of the. Of the work and financing. And I don't think you can say we think this project could be. Because it says, though, we all voted something unanimously and. That's not okay with me. Wait a minute. Let me see. What does it say? That's the second paragraph. I don't think that either. Necessarily it might be, but I don't know that right now. Yeah. Not now. So can you take, get rid of that? We are change rewrite that. Oh, that's. Okay. Tower. I don't know. I mean, I, I don't think wording it like that is. Solves the problem really. Because. That's not okay with me. Wait a minute. Let me see what is it. That's the second paragraph. Oh yeah. I don't think that either. Necessarily it might be, but I don't know that right now. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think you should make any commitments in this. In this. I think you're risking getting a black eye. I mean, I appreciate you being positive and trying to be. Supportive in some way. But. This has always been presented to us as a foregone conclusion. And that's not okay. How about. Beginning. Striking the beginning of that sentence and just. Starting it with this project. Could be. Yeah. Let's. Let me see. No, I think that you're too positive about beautiful edition. And stuff like that. And public art collection. I don't really. I don't really. I don't really think we've even talked about the value of why that is going to be there. Or what the North Amherst library people think about it. It's not okay. What if you said something like we appreciate the opportunity to. Consider your work. You know, consider this. Yeah. Yeah. Consider your work or consider this project. That's good. We could do that. However, there are, you know, for us to. Move forward with it. There are. There's more information that we need. More time and information. And that would be a good place to say we were ready. The request for the documents that we. Ask for at the last meeting. Yeah. Yeah. Consider your work or consider this project. And that would be a good place to say we're ready to move forward. With the documents that we asked for at the last meeting. Would it be useful to list those again? So it's all in one document. Yeah. You want. The big ones I mentioned a minute ago, the contract for the construction of the. Of the, of the sculpture and all documents relating to the financing of the sculpture. The financing. I thought she was going to do the fundraising. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm not necessarily correct. Since she is fundraising all around already. She says how much she's fundraising. I think Dara and I are thinking along the same lines. Yeah. What do you want me to say here? Well, I think the point is that. That. We would. As part of our consideration, we'd like to see that this thing is going to be a good place for us. I mean, I think it's going to be a good place for us. And I think it's going to be another steamroller step. Where, where she says, you all approved it. Now I need some help. Finishing the financing. I think. Why don't you just say we cannot approve this project until we can. We review the contract and they're satisfied that funding is in place. Well, not just that. You also have to approve the art that artwork for that spot. Correct. Oh yeah. Right. I didn't mean to. Yeah. I think it's going to be a good place for us. I think it's going to be a good place for us. I mean, I think it's going to be a good place for us to talk about that little bitty spot. And, and it's right at an intersection that takes a whole lot of concentration of looking at. One, two, three, four, five different. Directions, traffic's coming. And it's not necessarily a really good place to put anything. Much less. Be told why it's important. Just based on one person's thought about it. Anybody else have any thoughts about that? I agree. I agree. Yes, I agree too. I think we, maybe we can separate this a bit. You know, the, if we concentrate on reiterating what are the documents we need to see. And keep that separate from making any implication that once we get those, we're giving a green light. As we still have the question of whether we think this is, this is a good idea or not. Yeah. See, because it says, um, we understand you're on a tight schedule at the end, last paragraph. We understand you're on a tight schedule. And I'm afraid we just cannot approve the project before. That sounds like that it's going to get approved once, once these things are satisfied with like documents or timing. And that's just not right. Yeah. I think the other problem with it is it kind of ratifies the fact that she comes in at the last minute and says, I need this done in a week. Yeah. I don't like that precedent very much. Not okay. Okay. Well, this was a draft so I can take your, what you have to say and add to it. And Tom and I can work on this and kind of an asset. But the big things is because I. Frankly. I think the contract has been given to the artist. I'm not going to say that's due to the form. We don't have them. My lawyer's mind is saying, do they exist. And that is contract with the contract with the artists is a big, big deal because there are certain rights. That. That need to be waved. And if they're not waved, you're going to have a real headache. With that statute, particularly when it starts to rust. Yeah. artist yet. Well, it hadn't been given to us. I mean, I don't know about the artist, I can't say whether he. I'm not even sure that the person is considered an artist because they are being commissioned to do a design that somebody else designed. I think it's his design, but it's it's her idea and his design. I think that's what it that was my understanding. I do have that written down here. So, okay. That was my understanding too. But I don't think that she's contracted with him at this point because she doesn't have she hasn't done the fun rate she hasn't raised the funds to be able to really contract with him. Although she could do a contract based on, you know, raising the funds. I don't want to take anything that she says and incorporate it as a fact that we say of our own personal knowledge. That's right. Right. You know, and that space that's that space north of the library parking lot is so much bigger than that tiny little piece right by the road. I don't know why there's she set on that as being her spot. This just reminds me the time that a man came to my high school and awarded my brother awarded a scholarship that wound up to my brother for I don't know how many dollars and left town and there was no scholarship and there was no award and there was nothing but a speech. I just think we, I mean, we, I know that everybody here wants to see either the commission begin to have more proper like, you call it due diligence or or means or policies in place and talk about wanting to do things like that and this is a good example of why we need it. Right. Absolutely. This is why this is why we need guidelines so that we can check things up and say does it meet this doesn't meet this doesn't meet this we don't have that right now. And also, I think that it will, it is a good idea for us to think about what we each and then what we can agree on together. If we can and I think we probably can. What public arts about and what it's for. That's part of the work we're doing with strategic planning. Yeah. It's a real discussion and it's got really valuable content in it when you really get into it the history of public arts amazing. The reasons people use it and want to use it as amazing. And it would be really good for us to get to talk about it and I don't think we need a consultant. I think we just need to do some homework. We actually started Tom has started doing some of that work and also Angela Mills has sent us a lot of files on past Amherst works. So we have those to go through. And so we have we kind of we're starting that phase of like trying to collect the information so that we can know where we are right now we barely know where we are, you know. The thing I want to ask you one other question that made me concerned about things. But at the same time you're, you're in talks with the cultural council about folding the public art commission into the Arts Council. Yep, yep, something like that. Yeah. Well, what, what would you say, not just something like that but what is it really. So, the fact is that there's a lot of confusion about which organization does does what in this town is Amherst cultural council and there's us Amherst public art. We do we have some similar goals. If we joined together we would have these kind of we'd have the support of the cultural council and also the they they get a they get money to use toward local, local art events and public art and etc. It's all one kind of one pot. So my point is that we would have a little more budget and more voices, and we'd be able to bring in more voices with the cultural council behind us. Well, but the cultural council exists to with the same mission that the Massachusetts cultural council exists for. Yep. And, and that's mostly to support art tests and art organizations. And the public art commission has a pretty different kind of mission than that really. And you don't want to take money away from the art commission, I mean from the cultural council before. All this commission is at least saying that it intends to have more presence than it has had. So I'm confused by the mixed messages I'm hearing. I think we what we might want to do is, you know, as we, when we open our discussion about public arts, you know, purposes and ways and means that we line that up against, you know, side by side with the cultural council and test whether there's, kind of a symbiotic relationship or whether there's conflict or uncertainty I think we, we can determine that for ourselves and that would tell us whether the thought of some kind of merger. You know, make make sense. I think we can test that and not have to, you know, just just conclude from where things stand now that either there is or there isn't an overlap I think we can take a look at that and together determine who did you who did you call by name in the beginning of what you were saying you caught name somebody named Mike. No, I think I said maybe said might. Okay, okay. So, there's an evolution across towns on one second I'll get to you I'm so sorry. There is kind of an evolution of art organizations that's happening in towns where they're kind of their, their public art is kind of joining in with an art commission and forming one entity so that they can engage more and fight the siloing and the fighting for money that happens because we're asking for money and so is cultural council and it helps with fundraising and so this is. It's, it's a thing that's happening in other towns and so that's what we were looking at as well I don't mean to have any messages I don't have agenda. But the cultural council gets its money from the Massachusetts cultural council, not the town. Yes. Yeah, and that can you know that's, I don't see that as any kind of problem what I do see as a problem is the siloing that Terry mentioned so Catherine went to cultural council. A year before talking to us and the cultural council apparently didn't tell her, we don't know this. I'm surmising. I don't know how or hey you better talk with public art, which leads me to the thought of how many times are we sort of forgotten, or are overlooked. Going around. Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah, Robert I'm so sorry please, your turn. No that's that's okay. I guess I was just going to make the point. Okay. Have we concluded the conversation on for want of the nail, just looking at the agenda and if so, I mean I think the, the digression is an important one, and certainly, you know merits perhaps a whole meeting. And to determine, you know, going back to the idea of strategy, but sort of our our role and and how to work with the other organizations that seemingly have complimentary missions but I guess I guess my point was just, you know, it's an important and we should probably just work our way through the agenda items but definitely make time this meeting and subsequent meetings to talk about this because it seems like it's been and continues to be kind of an obstacle for us really moving forward. Yeah, I agree. I'm going to go back to the fact that, you know, the whole NIFA grant, you know, that that wasn't able to be to, you know, completed and so that I think we obviously want to avoid something like that again. And the big problem is, we don't have a budget. So this is a conversation that I think we should continue as Robert said, at a different time let's stay on the agenda. I really think this would take an entire meeting to talk about because we have a lot to go through, and it's part of the planning stages that I'd like to start with more. So, let's move along I think what we've got a basic idea for a letter that we're going to Tom and I are going to whip into shape we'll make sure that we don't say anything that says we are supporting it and loving your project so that, you know, I was really just being way too nice so I will, we will work on that. Is that okay when we move on to the next thing. It's going to be signed by all of us we ought to see a final draft before it's sent anybody. Okay. Yeah, you know what. Yeah. Okay, so Tom let's get this will get this whipped into shape and then we will send it out to you. Okay, and I will wait to hear approval from all of you before I send it. Yeah, I definitely want to look at it because I want to make sure it doesn't get us in any legal trouble. Jim, on public meeting grounds. Can we do this as proposed here that we send everybody a draft or do we need to. We need to wait for another actual meeting. The only way for raising that name answer is probably no, because the problem is that's called a serial breach of both. If, if, if Derek talks to me and I talked to Tom and Tom talks to Robert and Robert talks to Laurie and then it goes to Terry. That's clearly a violation of the open meeting law. Well what if I send the final copy to each of you separately and have you all get back to me separately. I, I, I'm not going to definitely say it violates it but it certainly is a minimum on the line and I'm not comfortable with it. I'd have to, you know, I take, I have to go and spend like 30 minutes looking at the various authorities and I predict I would say no but I'm not saying that definitely because I need to look at the authorities this is so right on the line. Okay, so this is why we can't get things done because it takes a month between. So, so hard to get things done. I think we have no alternative, but to we do the draft and then have the habit of having it available for discussion at our next meeting to be to be safe about this because we are the group here is asking that this be able to get to approve. How about if we, we, we do everything except talking to each other so you do the draft you send it to everybody to make that little notes and stuff and we have a meeting with only that on the agenda. December is real tricky. I don't know. Yeah, you're right. All that together. Okay. Yeah, you're right. I guess that you could just say to her that we haven't had time to do it yet and that will show get will show here from us in November in January. Okay. Everybody agree. Well yeah because actually one of the things I was thinking about as we see us have a little bit more spade work done before we even start to discuss these things because we spent a lot of time on this and I'm predicting it's never going to come to pass I hope I'm wrong but it doesn't look good to me. It feels like it's moving forward without our approval so I don't I really don't know what the nail thing. Yeah. Well, how do you what do you mean by that Terry. Well it's approved by everybody and they're they're ready to sign a sign a contract with this artist and I just feel like we're, who's they thrown in at the end here. Did you read the thing that was sent to everybody the next steps and all that did you receive that letter. I did. It just doesn't seem to me that there's anything that makes you think that it's all a done deal already she's just calling it a done deal. I mean there's no evidence that she has any money there's no evidence that she has anybody to to build it there's no evidence of what the contract would be with that person. And then North Amherst library people. How do they feel that they approved it. I mean I don't know say it they approved it says that the, oh the john side that don't people approve it. Yeah, very different bunch of people in a different location. So there's a lot of things that are being glossed over in the, and for the sake I guess of getting as quick approval as she can because she wants to, but her wanting to doesn't give you any. That's not enough reason for us to act like we agree with everything she says. So it sounds like I'm going to send her an email saying we cannot. We cannot decide on this until you'll hear you'll heal back from us you're healed back from us here back from us in January, does that sound okay. Yes. Okay. So that is what I will do, but I think we need to remind her that she promised to get documents to her and we haven't received anything. Yep. Yeah, I think that's safe enough. Okay. Oh, and yeah documents. Okay, moving on to the next thing. Thank you very much everybody. Both would get a boltwood gallery next steps. I have more information about that in my chair report which I could move up to give you all the information. Would that be okay if we skipped forward to chair report and then we can come back to this. Yes. Yes. Okay. Can you hang on just one second please. Yeah. I have this in your minutes you did you send this email did you get that email. Yes. All right. Jim, can I get started. Just give me another minute please. Behind. Okay, thank you. Okay. So, after not rest after that, I've sent an email to Dominique. We're on boat with gallery on the boat with gallery. Yeah. We had to go back and forth with the contract I work with town hall to eliminate some steps that she was concerned about specifically the need to have workers compensation as an artist. I took out of the town hall. It took Paul Bachman a while to get back to me. He had to talk to the lawyer for the town. So, after I finally got the edits done for the contract I sent it to her in November 14. And I have not heard from her since I've sent out two more emails to her about a week apart that I followed up with a phone with a text message, and she has not returned any of my communications. So I've been a little worried about her, but I found a November 13 article on the arts foundation of Cape Cod website that features her. And there she is. And she's doing good. She's, she's okay. So I'm glad to know that. But it says that she had a piece installed in the almost. Yeah, is that true. No. Well, then that's a real problem. So there is one piece one one of her pieces is in one window, but the other four windows are blank because she never installed because she was waiting for the contract and so this is a bit of a mess. So let's review. We're talking with an artist that we cannot contact that made a false statement to a newspaper. Right. What does that tell you. So I think that she was having a housing challenge. And so she returned to Truro where maybe her family lives. This is my, my guessing here. I'm not, I don't know why she hasn't responded to the emails doesn't explain the false statement to the newspaper. So at this point, I did extend the trust to her to I gave her the shadow boxes in the windows so that she could install her art in them. And I should not have done that without a contract. So that's on me. I'm sorry. Trusting soul. Are they very expensive. They're custom made. So the custom made out of wood to fit the windows perfectly so you can put a piece of art in it and then kind of slide it into the window so that you can see if the outside. Okay, so that are they inexpensive or expensive. I don't know they're custom made. We have to get those back from her. Yes. She lives in Truro. I don't know what to do about that particular problem, but we need to return the funds that were promised that were given to us from the Amherst cultural council, because we did not follow through on this and so we're, we have to give them back the money. Well, we're doing good with giving back money. Wow, we're doing good with giving back money. It just feels like a lot of misses I'm, I'm very frustrated. I understand. I wouldn't worry about those, those things that you gave her unless they turn it to be very, very, very, very, very expensive. I really don't know. I want to talk to you all about the possibility of putting out a new call for artists to fill the boat with gallery using our own funds in the spring and invite the past applicants, because it doesn't feel right to just to go to the past applicants and say, oh, let's use you and said that doesn't seem quite right. So I wanted to ask if what you all felt about that is no saying we have to have this going from September to September, we could have it going from April to April there's no reason. We can't do that. Yeah. So, that was my, I'm trying to, you know, make lemonade out of these lemons so what do you all think about that. Well, I can't know it's that we on the discussions we had when we arrived at Dominique peachy. And there were a couple of other people whose work we thought was pretty great. So I don't know if I don't have a strong opinion about which way it ought to be handled partly because you have to rescind her offer, right. Well, she never signed a contract so I will be telling I already let Matt know with the cultural council, and I'm waiting for them to get back to me. I recommend that if we are saying it's over with her that it would be appropriate to send her very polite. Yes, letter to that. She needs to return. Yeah. Angela Mills, advise the same and said, you know, can send that in an email but follow but also send it snail mail so that we have covered all our bases registered so she has to sign for it. Oh, there you go. That's an idea. It's a peel box though so I don't think that's that's gone. Unfortunately. So yeah I just it feels like another miss and I'm very disappointed and frustrated and I'd like to make lemonade out of this so I if we do a new call for artists I would invite the past applicants to even just resubmit this their same applications from September and Yeah, go from there. Yeah. Yeah, let's do that. Yeah. What do we think about that Lori Robert. That's not like an idea. Fine. Okay. Yeah. All right. Let's move along. Town Hall gallery. Mikey's requesting more help with gallery she's looking for a co coordinator would anybody be interested in that position. That would be helping find new artists, help hang the art or organize the hanging of the art and help organize artist receptions. Yeah, I'll do that volunteer for that. Terry. Yay. Tom. Great. Also, Pamela Nolan young the director of the department of diversity equity and inclusion would like to use the town hall gallery for February to do a black history month pop up museum. I've already talked to Mikey about it, who I said, you know, what, what can we know is this is this month available and she said, Oh, I've already got somebody, but she talked to the artist and the artist is fine with giving up February and doing a March April instead. So we have this opportunity to collaborate with the DEI on sounds like a really cool black history month project. Great. I am a big fan of this idea. And I thought you go would be as well. I'm seeing nodding people so I'm agree. Okay. And so I said we would love to have Pamela on here I invited her to the meeting but I wasn't sure if she could make it. And we can talk to her about what she's looking to do and if we can help arrange your reception. What we can do out of our resources or our work to help this happen. And I think we can help by having an opening reception or we can contribute some funds toward this. Would this all be okay with you. Yeah, we need to know what the funds are for obviously, obviously, like the D that the office there are DI office would have some money. Yes. Well, yes, but I'm just as a collaborator it would be, it would be nice for us to be able to interview. Yeah. I like the idea. I think let's let's go ahead to have that conversation. Okay. Learn what DI has what they, what they intend to. Okay. The first step was to ask us if they can use the property so if it's okay with you I will tell her yes. Is that okay. Yes. Okay with me. Okay. All right. All right. Good. I will let her know. Thank you. Moving on. I'm going to talk to Gabrielle Gould of the business improvement district. She told me that she's interested in bringing back art nights to downtown and that she would be helping with she would be raising money for it and helping organize and I said, great. And so we're going to talk more about that when I see her, I guess in January. So, and what's, what's our commission's role in art. I don't, there's really, I don't have an answer for that right now. This is just very like very beginning talks and I was not here for art, we are art night in the past. All of you probably have attended an art night here in Amherst. I have not. So there used to be, I think they called the gallery night or was it art night. They were open galleries I know but I think. I think it was a monthly if I'm there, I don't know. I did not attend, but she said it was great for business. That all the galleries open and people put art in their front windows and it was really, it was really excited about it. And then cove it came along and we haven't had those and she'd like to bring it back. And I said, we would love to do that too probably. So we, I don't, there's no role yet. I don't have any. Okay, let's, let's look in the documents that Angela gave us to see whether there's information about what involvement public art might have had in the past. I think that Amy, who was a chair from, I want to say two or three years ago. My name's Amy and I forgot her last name. I'm so sorry. I might reach out to her and ask with that what she did because I know that there was organization that happened on our end but just to kind of get some information about it. So that's where we are in that I'll talk more about it when I have any more information. And poetic dialogue is installed. Yay, this one plus can bills check is being processed now. And also the electrify Amherst project the grant, I put it in and I have not heard back about it yet so we're still waiting on that. And that's my update. So, thank you. Now we can go back to. We got that. We got that we got that chair report. Okay. I think I am at the end of what I have on my agenda. And it's 715. So it's only 45 minutes. I was trying to make it a half an hour but we pushed past that we have a lot of conversations coming up about planning coming up and there I really look forward to having those conversations about who we are and what we want, you know, and it is I think that this for want of an ill came it came up now when we don't have our guidelines yet, you know, so we're kind of struggling, you know, to figure it out. We'll start overlining it's it's, it's, I think it's, it's, it's going to help elucidate some of the things that we do need to just. It's been a year of elucidating right. It's been like a welcome to Amherst the year of hard knocks I, I swear it's been hard to accomplish things I'm hoping I have I have a lot of hope for 2024. Yeah. So, let's send out a doodle and figure it when we can meet in early, ooh, January. I started a new job I started a new job on January 2, which I'm very excited about. So, I'm very happy. Thank you very much. Thank you. So I'm very happy that Tom is co chairing with me so that we can share that work, and I look forward to that. And anybody have anything else say any other business we did not anticipate. Not me. Not you. No, okay. Robert, good to see you. Good to see all of you. I am going to ask for a motion to adjourn. No moved. Second. All in favor. Hi. Awesome. Thank you. Thank you all for meeting. I hope you have if you whatever you celebrate this month, I hope you have fantastic holidays and celebrations. And I will see you all in January. Great. Thank you. Bye bye. Bye bye. I'll never turn this off. Hi, babe. Oh, I'm tired.