 there. It's great. I left this. All right, we should probably go ahead and get started. I'm not sure. Have you heard from Yvonne, Jennifer? I have not. Okay, I did start recording. Okay, great. So welcome, everyone. I am calling to order the May 9th meeting of the African Heritage Reparation Assembly. Let's see. Oh, my notes aren't on this agenda for some reason. Jennifer, I don't know why this particular agenda doesn't have the little notes on it, that the disclosure about it being a remote meeting. Oh, okay, hold on, because I just, all right, hold on. And I can also pull up last week. If I should know my heart, but I don't. So hang on. You're so authentic. I can just email it to you quickly, if that's fine. Hold on, I think I have last weeks here. So let me see if I can just pull that up and make this easier. Because I'll need it for the public comment piece as well, right? I think that might be still down there. Yeah, shoot. I can't find it, of course. Yeah, if you can email where are you emailing just so I check the right email? Miller at Amherst MA? Yeah, that's good. And actually, I think the statement may need to be updated because the order was updated. So it's like pursuant to the acts of 2020 that was updated into I don't know, it's something we should look at with that. But we can see what the council's using. Yeah, exactly. That's all we have to do. It's all right. Here we go. Thank you. And then just what time did you call because you yes, though, let's say it was 304, I assume, pursuant to chapter 20, the acts of 2021, this meeting will be conducted via remote means, members of the public who wish to access the meeting may do so via zoom or by telephone, no in person attendance, the members of the public will be permitted, but every effort will be made to ensure that the public can adequately access the proceedings in real time via technological means. And so if we could just take a moment to make sure everyone can be heard and is hearing us okay. And I'll start with you, Irv. I'm here. Great. Hala. I believe you can hear me. Yep. Dr. Shabazz. Shabazz present a okay. And Alexis. Hi. All right, great. So we'll do a quick review of the agenda. We have some minutes to approve as long as everyone has had an opportunity to look at those from last week. So we're if we're ready to approve those, that would be great. And then we have a presentation today from members of the Amherst Community Land Trust, Markeene and Paige Wilder. And so they're in the audience I see and we'll welcome them in. And we have a discussion about our upcoming presentation at the town council on earmarking cannabis funds. We have the black African American census. If we want to continue the conversation now and operating an administrative budget, although I haven't received anything from anyone between, you know, our meetings yet. So maybe we hold off on that. And then we have the community survey and I have an update on that. So before we get started, are there any questions or comments right now? And then we'll move to just approving those minutes so we can get that out of the way. All right. All right. So, Jennifer, just to be clear, I have three, three, three, 14, three, 21, three, 28, four, four and four, 11. Yeah. Okay. So I move to approve the meeting minutes for three, three, two thousand twenty-two, three, fourteen, three, twenty-one, three, twenty-eight, four, four and four, eleven, two thousand twenty-two. Is there a second? Two seconds. Excellent. Any discussion? Any amendments to those minutes? Encourage us to pass these so that they're available to the public. And if there are any corrections that need to be made, we can backtrack and make amendations as necessary. Perfect. Thank you. Okay, so let's start with you, Dr. Shabazz. Shabazz, yes. And Irv? Irv, yes. Okay. I'm a yes. Hala? Lord, I yes. Okay. And Alexis? Alexis, yes. All right. Great. So I and I like Dr. Shabazz's thinking there. If there's anything that needs to be amended, we can come back to that. But it's really it's great that these are going to be available to the public. So and I just I kind of it's hard because everybody has such important stuff to say. And sometimes it's really long. So it comes between like 30 page minutes and 10 page, five page minutes, right? So yeah. You know, something I've been doing and I don't know if this is helpful, Jennifer, but in my GOL reports to the town council, I've been including the YouTube link in the report. Okay. So maybe in the minutes, just including a link to the actual video for that day. And that way it's easily accessible for folks that they do. Well, that and often you guys share screen. So it makes it helpful when what I end up saying is Miller shared screen. Right? It's like, well, about what? Yeah. Okay, great. All right. So we are going to bring our guests in. And just to give us a reminder about this, Mara Keane had reached out to me a few weeks ago and said that she was on the board of the Amherst Community Land Trust, and that they had been talking about ways that perhaps there might be a partnership with us to ensure that African American and black residents have access to these developments that have that have happened here in Amherst. And so I'm going to let them speak for themselves. This is Mara Keane and Paige Wilder are joining us. I'm just really appreciative to both of them for coming here today. I very much appreciate Mara reaching out about this and making this connection. It's really these partnerships that are, you know, can be so powerful for the work that we're doing. And I know that Mara very, very much supports our work as does Paige. So let's go ahead and bring them in. Amaya, I think I can do this, Jen. I'm gonna try. Welcome, Mara. Hi. Hi. Hi, Paige. Hi. I'm not in the best I'm in a guest room at my mom's house. So oh, that's life. Shadow. Yeah. Well, that's nice. You got to be at your mom's house near Mother's Day or on Mother's Day. Well, yeah, it was. Yeah. And Paige, I want to make sure I am pronouncing your last name properly. It's Wilder. It is Wilder. Okay. Thank you. Wonderful. Well, thank you so much for being here and I am going to turn it over to the two of you, at least initially, and then we can open it up for discussion. Thank you so much for having us. Do you want me to start, Mara? Yeah, you were good. Were you going to do the history of the Land Trust Movement? I'll give a little introduction. What we were interested in doing and we don't need to take too much of your time. Explain just touch base with you that we exist. Explain the CLT model and give a little bit of history about how it started in the United States. Introduce a CLT and just see if there are overlaps in ways that we can help with reparations efforts, especially in terms of affordable housing. There's some confusion about Land Trust because it's a community Land Trust. It's actually housing. It's not conservation land. And in our particular community Land Trust, we're not dealing with big developments. We're doing individual homes. But the Land Trust Movement started in 1969 in Albany, Georgia, when a group of black farmers decided to hold land in common and farm the land as a means of survival after having visited a kibbutz in Israel. So they kind of developed the model and then it spreads throughout the United States. The Amherst Community Land Trust was started in, we incorporated in 2014. So we're fairly young. And we now have five houses. The first one was a project with Habitat. It was a duplex. We have two families in that. And then we ran a subsidized housing program with CPA money. And we did a second one of those. And we've had one, our founding president died and donated her house. So right now we're working on that house and getting a lottery winner in there. And then we have one house currently in the pipeline to be donated and three other board members talking about it. So we have this incredibly generous situation of people in Amherst wanting to create ways that we can create affordable housing. We went to the National Land Trust to get some advice about how to accept properties. And they said, we don't have that problem. So it's somewhat unique to Amherst that people are willing to donate their homes to affordable housing. Anyway, that's kind of the history. There are, I didn't have time to send you the link, but there are some really informative videos on our website. If you go to Amherst Community Land Trust and look for the link to about CLTs, there's three or four videos that are fairly short and helpful in terms of the background. And then I guess, Maura, are you going to do the structure of how it works? Yeah, I can do that. So with the Land Trust, it's the trust that owns the land. And the person who's living in the house owns a house. So this typically reduces the cost of the the whole property by about a third. And I think we're still working out the exact taxes, but the land is not taxable since this the Community Land Trust is tax exempt. But so this this and this allows people who ordinarily couldn't afford to buy a house to buy it at a reduced price. The catch is when they sell the house, they also have to sell it at a price that would be affordable to someone in low, usually, it's the 80% meaning come, although with the donated properties, I guess we can go a little bit higher. So they're not going to be able to make the equity that someone who just bought a house a traditional way would be able to. But that house stays in the affordable housing. It stays as affordable as opposed to becoming another house that one. So we don't have to keep replenishing the supply of affordable housing. And so far, we have had wonderful families in there, and they're all people of color. But none of them are African Americans, black. And so we would like to make that one of our priorities going forward, that as houses become affordable, we'd like to open it up to preferentially to the African American community. And maybe it could be like the reparations type of thing. I don't know what direction you guys are going to go in with that. But you know, if we could work together to get some of our black families into homeownership, I think that would be beneficial for the community as a whole and for those for those people who get the homes. I would just briefly flip the thing you said about equity building equity, because it's true, you don't buy a house that then the market skyrockets and you get to leave with $100,000 because for no reason of your own, the price of your house went up. But what it does do is instead of pouring rent out the window every month, you are building equity, you're paying down your mortgage. And when you leave, whatever you've paid off, you get. And then the way that the sale is restricted is the time they look at the area median income at the time you purchased your house. And if you sell it 10 years later, and the area median income went up 10%, you can raise the sale price by 10%. So you do increase the value of the home if the area median income goes up. But but more is right. A lot of people look at it and say, Oh, well, I don't own my land. And I also don't get to benefit of the extravagant real estate market. Yeah, yeah, that's, I think both, both pieces are true, you know, that you do, you are paying down that mortgage. And and that's good to know about the area median income piece as well. I do see several hands here. So I think I saw Dr. Shabazz hand go first, and then we'll go to Alexis. I don't mind to yield to Alexis. You'd like to go take it. Okay, thank you very much. Okay, so I okay, so I immediately went to go research this when I heard about it because I was like, Whoa, been here 30 years and never heard of this. So I want to preface the statement with with I think that this is a great program. Here's the part where I see a problem simply with when we're working in terms of equity and reparations, I think the biggest issue that I see is the land ownership issue, which like, you know, when we're talking about equity and about reparations, we're also including in that generational wealth, which sounds like we're there's like a barrier, right? Because you're you're sort of capped or marked at this affordable price, which is kind of like a relative term, right? It's affordable is supposed to be relative to however much your income is. And so I guess what I'm wondering, first and foremost, is what sort of limitations does someone have on land being that the trust would own the land, are people able to farm the land? Are they able to like, is there a certain like, they have to cut the grass, like make sure that it's not a certain height? And I know that it has to do with like your neighborhood and everything like that. But I guess what I'm wondering is what what limitations does someone have in the use of that land? That's my first question. So maybe I'll just I'll stop there with my first question. The land is on a 99 year lease to the person who has it. So you can do pretty much anything allowed to the land, except sell it. So the land is enamor so you you know, farming is limited. But it basically goes by town zoning laws. Yeah, and town laws. If you decided to put in a swimming pool, you would have to go to the board. And the board would probably say feel free to do that. But when you sell it, you can't recoup the cost of putting in a swimming pool. So there are limitations in terms of modifying the house. If it's going to increase or decrease the affordability of the house, or what your return is going to be at sale for the efforts you put in. So you won't be reimbursed for luxuries, but you would be reimbursed for major items that you repaired or. So there are some board decisions, but primarily the goal is to have it feel like you own that you do own the house and you have all the rights of any homeowner. And we do have a repair fund sort of that we're trying to set it up to make. So if a house needed major repairs, like a new roof or something that the homeowner wouldn't be totally on the hook for it, they might get a no cost loan or help with that. Although, thankfully, that hasn't happened yet, but might. I just want to take a minute to welcome Yvonne and Yvonne, can you just unmute if you can hear me and let let us know that you can hear us and make sure we can hear you. I am listening. I'm just moving around and I apologize for being late. I was moving from one thing to another. And so I'm still moving around. That's why my no worries. Once I settle down, I'll turn my camera on. Great. I'm here and it's fascinating. Information is quite fascinating. Thank you. Thank you. Just a follow up and then I'm going to go to Dr. Shabazz and Irv quickly on this question. If it's a duplex can or if it's not and it can be converted according to town bylaws to a duplex, can the homeowner rent the other side and receive that income and keep that income without any limitation? Do you know? We're in discussion about that. It has to be owner occupied. I mean, you can leave and rent it. Sure. You could certainly rent a room in your own home. We've talked about whether or not if a homeowner has a duplex home, it's certainly going to make it more affordable for them to rent the other unit, but should the other unit also be affordable? Right. Or should it be market rate? We are a nine board member organization, completely volunteer, no staff. We started, we jumped in feet first with a house before we even had policy made yet. We've been around seven years, but we're still very young. Yeah, that makes a lot. And that's part of meeting with you. We don't, quite frankly, it was a bunch of white homeowners who felt like their neighborhood was under siege by the planning department and UMass. And this was sort of a last gasp, let's try and save this. People would put the house up on the market, go to the realtor. The realtor wouldn't even list it. She would call the developer and say, I have another great student rental opportunity. So all these owner occupied homes were turning into student rentals. And we thought, how are we going to get our neighbors to get families in their homes and still feel like they can leave the neighborhood? You know, people are retiring or whatever. And so that's how it began. It was like, let's talk directly to families, get families in there and somehow make it affordable so developers aren't snatching up all the houses before they even go on the market. But if we had more people of color on the board, you would be developing the policy and deciding right now, it's a cool board. It's very, we have both extremes of thinking on the board. And I personally think our end game should be collect all the land, get people in the houses affordably and then give all the land to the Wampanoag. There are people on the board that are saying, well, what if we need to raise some revenue and we need to sell the land? And you know, so all kinds of political spectrum on the board. But it's really a nice group. We work synergistically. We discuss both extremes. And I've been really happy with outcomes. I think people feel heard. We don't agree. But I think people feel heard by the time we're making a decision. And the meetings are open to the public. If anybody's interested, they're all Zoom meetings now. Great. That's really good to know. And membership is only $15 a year. So anybody can join the land trust too. Okay, let's go to Dr. Shabazz. Thank you. Good to see you both. This is great information. Things that could also help us in our thinking about how or in what way a partnership can manifest. Have you made any attempt to study or survey or see why there has been no participation of persons of African descent, Black folks, in your program? Is it outreach? Is it the model of ownership? Is there any ideas of why there's not been more involvement with the African-American community? I think all of our homes have been by lottery. It's selected by lottery. African-Americans have been in the pool. There have been a few. We've run all the lotteries through Valley CDC. Well, actually Habitat did the first one. So Habitat did that. And the next one was right when COVID hit. And so outreach was terrible. And we couldn't do the public information meetings. And we actually only got four applicants. And then two of those weren't vetted by Valley CDC. And then we had the lottery. And then one person found a house. And the other one looked and looked and looked and couldn't find anything affordable and fell out of the lottery. So then we had another lottery. And it was still COVID. So I think it's a mix of things. We have not done a formal analysis. I have some anecdotal ideas about what's happening. I think there are some misperceptions about what it feels like to not own your land. I think that's a big thing. And I think the board is just overstended. We're not doing our best. We could be doing better outreach. And we talked to who we know. I mean, quite frankly, I'm talking to my neighbors and they're all white. Yeah. And I tried, but it hasn't. Yeah. I tried with the last one and we did get one applicant, right? But the lottery didn't choose that applicant. So. Thank you. And you're here. So thank you. That is a huge, huge piece of the puzzle here. I think we can, this is, you know, being out here and in conversation with this body is really great. Jennifer, I see that your hands up and Irv had his hand up, but are you going to go to Irv first or okay, Irv? Well, this is really great information and it's something that's near and dear to my heart because I'm in the process along with some other people of launching a national project that aimed at affordable home ownership. And I can't say pretty much more about it, but one of the things that I was looking at here is that there's equity in a house and then there's appreciation in the house. And those are two different things. You know, for instance, one of the things is that wealthy individuals will take a 50 year mortgage. So they're only paying interest. But what they're counting on is that at some point in time, that property will appreciate. And when they sell it, they will take the difference in between what they purchase for and what they sold them for, the appreciable appreciated amount. And that's a very important thing to realize. But the other thing that's intriguing to this is that leasing the land to a community land trust is something that hadn't thought about or we hadn't thought about in our model. We were thinking that we would definitely hold on to the land for a number of different reasons. We wanted to reduce the cost to the person who was going to be purchasing. But looking at a one-third reduction in the cost of a house, if the land is held by non-profit and that non-profit, then that land could not be taxed. That's a huge plus on a number of different levels. And so I am, you know, really interested in finding out more about how that works and also wanting to compare to what would happen in terms of, say, a limited equity co-op, in terms of how that equity is this limited over a period of time and how they portion that out over the years, which is another model that is there. But again, I really appreciate this. This is something in our models, we never considered a community land trust, which would be a really great partner going forward. The proof of concept that we're looking at is to do it where I live as proof of concept. And so I definitely will be looking at your website and looking at the website nationally, but wanting to more talk with you too at some point in the near future. Thank you. Excellent. Okay, I saw Jennifer and then Ebon. So one is, I was wondering, if Alexis, did you have more questions? I think that note that you guys said that, like, you're thinking about the ways in which, like the mention of giving the land afterwards to the Wampanoag or whichever tribe, you know, had the space, I think changes the whole sort of conversation for me. So, like, that was, like, sort of the equity part that I was hoping for. So I, I don't know, that's sort of, like, stopped my questions, but I, they might arise more as we talk more. But no, that was great. Thank you, Jennifer. Just to be clear, that's me speaking. That's not board policy yet. I think you'll have some people to stand behind you on that one. I do, I'm very impressed and I think this is a beautiful thing that the Land Trust is doing. I do wonder, do you guys, or in partnership with CDC, help folks to get on that right path to home ownership? As in, like, the first time home, because you already have to have it been approved for a mortgage, correct or no? Yes. Yeah. So far, we farmed that out. I mean, we hired Valley CDC to help homeowners get ready to buy a home and to vet them and the whole process and even run the lottery. I would say, you know, we're trying to build community within the organization. Our first two homeowners were on the board for a board term. We have another homeowner, you know, we try and have them on the board or at least come to board meetings and we're trying to build community. Again, it's being overextended and not having a lot of time. But we do, we did a fall walk together with the board members. So we're doing, I guess what I'm saying is initially we're trying to do that by building relationship. And nationally, there's very little foreclosure on CLT homes. There's a sort of built in safety net because it is a community. And then I've been talking, we inherited a home and it's full of tools, garden shed tools and a snowblower. And I would love to have a community tool shed. But we don't have that capacity yet. So we're feeling our way and trying to create the kind of support that we should be providing. I was also just curious, if you guys were putting your meetings on our community calendar. No. And maybe if you guys could send one of the community participation officers that information, we could help get it on the community calendar if you would like. Okay. I'm one of three. We have a meeting on Wednesday. So we can talk about that. I would just say we were very hesitant to work with the town initially. Yeah. And that, I mean, there's a reason it's not on the town calendar. But people can come to the meeting. People, certainly they're open and maybe it's time to do that. Yeah. But we didn't feel town supported our efforts in the beginning. I understand that. And yeah, and if there's any, any ways, and I really appreciate you bringing that up, Jennifer. And just the fact that some, but that people are donating their homes in this town, I mean, wow. And that you're capturing that. And it's really remarkable. Yuman. Hi. So I'm, this is fascinating information. I've lived here for years and I had no idea. I'm interested in like, if you're having a meeting on Wednesday, I'd love to know when that is. I, you know, I could try to come. If you'll be patient with me getting my brain together to express everything that I want. The one of the reasons I joined this committee was because of housing and the fact that it's so difficult for people of color to be able to buy homes. The system that's in place is stacked against the BIPOC people owning homes. It's like from the bank to all the way through. And so one of the things about restorative up work is that there should be systems that make it, not, you know, like make that level the playing ground and these systems that are in place for mortgages and whenever you say lottery, people just run out the door. They're out the door. They're the other way because any kind of thing that has a lottery, I'm not going to get it, you know, saying, you know that you're not going to get picked. You know, so you're not even, you know, people say, you know, you just throw your name in, but really how many people do you know that even with the school system who rely on a lottery actually get what they want? They don't. So I'm challenging this group and our committee. I mean, I'm really happy that you're here because there has to be a way for us to create a system that is more equitable and accessible for people of color to be able to own homes. This idea of a lottery is ridiculous. I'm sorry. That's my opinion, but it's ridiculous. Supposedly it's supposed to be fair for everyone to be able to get at something and it just doesn't seem like that's the way to go. So I would love to have another meeting with our committee where we talk about what kinds of other systems there are in that that folks know about. I know that, you know, there's a big in this group of people I'm looking at. There are lots of information that we can tap into folks know about different systems across the country that are more equitable, that allow people of color access to houses, to loans, to information. All right. Don't get me started on the credit rating system because that would be an hour of complaining. But, you know, every time you go in and there's something that they say creates equity, they move the bar. You know, they move, they move the goalposts and they make it really hard for people to actually, you know, gain that access to wealth that many other people have access to in an easy way and we don't. So that's my first thing is that I think that there needs to be a way for the trust, not just, you know what I think? I love the part about relationship building because that really is important. But there also has to be some kind of systematic way for you to be able to reach out specifically to BIPOC families and have it so that when they put their name in the hat, they know they're going to yield some kind of result. Because if you say, oh, join this group and now we're going to throw your name into a lottery, that's actually no guarantee that those folks are going to be able to take advantage or gain access to what is that you want them to gain access to, right? So that's what I'm saying. I'm saying that all of the efforts are really great, but there has to be some targeted real focus on what the system is, how there are holes in that system, how we can fill the holes in that system to make things more accessible for BIPOC people. That was it. I'd love to learn more about the meeting that you're having. Those ideas are really helpful for me because I think part of my selfish reason of coming to you is I want to see how you figure out who gets reparations. Because lottery, I agree, and our hands were tied because it was state money or town money. As people donate homes, we're free. I mean, it would be great to be higher staff. We have financial needs, but at some point, if we have five donated homes, we don't need to sell a home. And I said to the board at our last meeting, we should be giving these homes to African-Americans in town. A foot up, build some equity, and when it's no longer suitable, move on to what your next step is, and then someone else gets to do that. Maybe we dedicate a certain number of the homes we hold to that purpose, but then the discussion becomes how do you pick who gets it? But that's a valid discussion. I mean, that's progress, I'm saying. You might think it's debate, but it's actually progress because you're moving towards solutions and accessibility. So I applaud you for that. I mean, it's not a bad thing when people say, so how do we pick people? Let's talk about it. Let's figure out a system that seems equitable that's not a lottery to have people have access to the... Right, I agree. Sign me up. And Habitat holds their own mortgages, and I talked to them about how you do that, and she said it's not legal. We have this weird exception. And I think after the last lottery, when the family was chosen and they're a wonderful family, then we started saying, but we really want to reach out to the African American community and just leaving it to chance isn't going to do it. So that's why we decided to come here. Yeah, and also to address all of the other barriers that may be there, where an African heritage person may not put their name even in the lottery, so addressing those. And I think Yvonne, before you were here, they framed this conversation to say that what they're hoping to do is to actually create a preferential path for African Americans that is outside of the lottery. That's at least what I think I heard the framing was, so just to clarify that. I think there was Irv and then Dr. Shabazz. So one of the things, I am just full of numbers in my head because of where I am in relationship to this project, but just an overview in terms of Amherst. Amherst's cost of living is 23% higher than the rest of the nation. Are the rentals, the average and median rent and Amherst for one bedroom apartment is $1,600 a month. For two bedroom is $2,400 a month. And when you talk about qualifying for a mortgage, you have people who have been renting at those rates and below those for years, but yet they can't qualify for a mortgage. The other thing is when you look at the numbers, the higher the income of an individual, the less percentage of their income that they pay for housing. The lower the income, the more percentage they pay for housing, which is perverse. But that's the way it is across the country and that's the way it is here in Amherst. The cost of a mortgage and a mortgage qualifications, when you look at it on a one-to-one basis, those who are renting versus those who are purchasing, it comes down to whether the person has their ability, that person who's been renting has the ability to come up with a down payment. But yet there are systems, financial systems and models that are in place that will allow for that to be mitigated in major kinds of ways. And here in Amherst, it's sort of like one of these things where no matter how you look at it, those people who are renting are less likely to be able to purchase a home as the years move on. The reason for that is that you have an increased appreciation and the cost of a house and Amherst over the last three to five years, the appreciation has been astronomical. And that is a huge barrier to home ownership. But yet, again, there are financial models that will allow that to be mitigated in a number of different ways. And I really look forward to working with the land trust in terms of sharing some of what my group has come up with in terms of our model moving forward. Thank you, Irv. So there was Dr. Shabazz, then Yvonne, and then Alexis. And then we'll have to by four o'clock start to wrap this up so that we have time to talk about our town council presentation. So Dr. Shabazz, you're up. I'll keep it brief to say that, again, thank you for the presentation over the summer. If their school ends have a little more time and would like to try and talk more, explore more. We are still trying to figure out the extent to which, in the way in which to both identify and help to organize the African heritage community in Amherst. And the town is, I guess, beginning to kind of help facilitate our efforts, support that work, hopefully more support is forthcoming. But as the community becomes more cohesive, more organized, more and we can have a communication channel to the community, not only about the particular reparations plan that we're charged with developing, but an ancillary opportunity is that work that you all are doing, work that others are doing that would like to help and benefit the African heritage community would also have that kind of communication channel from what I'm hearing from you. Communication is probably a part of the problem. So hopefully as our efforts go forward, our planning work goes forward, and perhaps some support from the town comes for identifying and developing a communication channels to the African heritage community that will be, these are things that can really, really benefit. I would just say finally that an area that may not be a traditional thought of your group, but I think would have many positive benefits is to also think about the African American graduate student community. Students come here as graduate students, sometimes with families, and the opportunities there are also extraordinarily limited and UMass right now is demolishing north village apartments where many have been able to to live. And they say they're going to rebuild and give priority to those who were on the waiting list or who had been living there. But the graduate students are a very special group and I think the extent to which they're able to find places to live, even if it's not on an ownership model, but just places to live that are more affordable that they don't have to commute in from Holyoke, from Springfield, from Sunderland, from wherever. They would begin to have a more positive feeling about life in this town where they work, where they teach, where they're teaching assistance, where they're studying, and some of them upon completing their doctoral work or graduate work, master's work, may find opportunities to stay and to become longtime residents. But when you find it impossible to find anywhere affordable to live while you're a graduate student, you're not likely to think about sticking around even after you finish your work. You've already, you know, adopt a view that, okay, this place is too expensive and too unwelcoming to people like me. So, anyway, something to follow up on in future conversation, but thank you for your presentation. Thank you. Thanks, Dr. Shabazz. Okay, I think there is Yvonne and then Alexis. I'll also be very brief. I want to kind of add to what Dr. Shabazz said and just share one story around. I was at an event and I was talking to a couple of people, folks, you know, African-Americans and Latinos and, you know, one woman was like, oh my God, I'm so oppressed daily in my daily experience with my job, with my life. There's always something that's like coming at me where I'm working at trying to battle some kind of oppression. And so I want to say that up front because the mindset of BIPOC folks, like what I was saying about the lottery, about like those a lot of people who are not even going to put their names in the hat or on the list because they know that it might be a disappointment. It might be a battle to be able to get to where they think that, you know, they can at least have some success. And so that's why I'm going back to this whole idea. This other friend of mine who was trying to get a home equity loan, her and her husband applied and they had a great credit rating and suddenly there was this new thing called a bankruptcy index and they got denied the loan and could not, could not get the loan from them because all of a sudden and, you know, and then so my friend called me. She's like, do you know what this is? And I was like, I've never heard anything like this. So I'm saying that in addition to the fact that you have assist this system where these things get thrown in the, you know, and folks like, you know, folks are like, oh, well, I guess I just didn't qualify and they just move on, you know. So there has to be some kind of way for, you know, like, I don't know if it's Valley CDC or if it's the Land Trust to offer some kind of legal advice as well and some kind of way to really support BIPOC families throughout this very difficult process that often is stepped against them. Okay, there's their stuff like I know, you know, you kind of open your mouth wide when I said this bankruptcy index, right? Like you never heard of it to either, right? So I'm just saying that just a little bit of education about what folks are up against and that should be a part of this idea of how do we make this accessible to people of color. And we have some internal work to do too. I mean, when I read the white supremacy organizational structure, it's kind of like, okay, yep, ACLT, ACLT, ACLT. So we're moving slowly, but we're moving. Please, please include, I'm very interested in being a part of it. So I'm happy to like, you know, you know, more directly, and I've seen your name a few times. So I, you know, if you guys can reach out to me, that'd be great. Yeah, we meet this Wednesday, we always meet seven to nine p.m. And maybe we'll just send Michelle the link. Yeah, we're actually meeting, we meet the fourth Wednesday of the month, but we're meeting more often because of this house that we're getting ready for sale. Awesome. Yeah, definitely send it to me. I will make sure everybody gets it. And and if you decide you want to put it on the community calendar, you can, we can let Jennifer know that too. Maybe that's for the future. But okay, Alexis. Yes, gonna be extremely brief because everybody said pretty much everything that I want to say. But basically just echoing everything is like that the idea of like centering some something around someone, right? It's not really enough to be inclusive to say like, well, this is for everyone. Well, that doesn't mean that it's for me, right? So like, there's like that piece of like, no, this is specifically for you. There's that piece. And then also adding in like, right, the other things that that Black folks are up against, right? So like, when we were selling my grandma's home, like we were advised to take all of the pictures of Black family members down so that you don't know that a Black person lived there because white people don't want to buy it. So right, right. Exactly. So yes, there's like so many like from like start, even before start to even after finish. So yeah, I just wanted to keep it like always keeping in mind like what are the barriers to access from any part of this experience? So yes, I thank you all for it, for acknowledging those voids and being willing to fill them. So thank you. Thank you, Alexis. Jennifer. I think I really just wanted to say in multiple ways of I have a lot of different channels to reach out to folks and different people and the schools or I'm not sure, but when you guys are ready to really try to expand to in the sense that you want to have a larger audience, maybe I would love to help you with that. I don't know that I can sit on another board, but I would love to help you do that because I think that this is really important. And I also think that there's people that have been here for years who have grown and it's just important to get people to stay and come back. So I think what you guys are doing is wonderful. Thank you. Absolutely. Yeah, thank you so much. I did want to just check in with Hala before we go to make sure you're good. Okay. All right. So thank you, Mara on page. Thank you so much for coming. It sounds like we are going to be continuing this dialogue. And I will definitely send out the link to everyone and Mara, we can be in touch about how to maybe have a structured way to continue the dialogue as you are all sort of doing, like you said, the inner work that you're doing and then also developing some of this policy and stuff like that. So we'll be in touch for sure. And thank you all so much. And the liaisons to your committee. So we'll be attending your meetings to facilitate communication between the two groups. Awesome. Thank you. All right. Thank you very much. And we will just let's see here. So I am going to just check here before we okay. So just to give me a sense of everybody's timing is everybody available to stay until 430 today? Okay, great. Have to leave maybe a little bit before I can stay out. I'll come out the door at 430 because I have to be somewhere by five. Okay, perfect. Yeah, me too. So we'll we'll wrap it up right at 430. We'll make sure. All right. So I want to make time for us to have a more thorough discussion about that presentation and about that partnership at a future meeting. But what's most pressing right now is that we have a dialogue about the upcoming Town Council meeting on May 16. And what I want to share with you what I have in mind and then open it up for discussion. I also wanted to share with you several updates that I have in relation to this. So just checking with Dr. Shabazz and Dr. Rhodes, are you both still listening? Yes, I am. I'm listening, but I just I I have to limit my screen time. So that's that's why you don't. Okay, good enough. All right. So let me just center for a quick second here. Okay, so after our last discussion in terms of asking the Town Council to earmark cannabis funds, which we're preparing to do for the May 16th meeting, several things have happened. So I want to share some of that with you as much as I can right now. And I'm going to share my screen. See here. Can everyone see my screen? Okay. Yes. So the first thing that I found in my research on this that I want to share with you all is this is guidance from the Cannabis Control Commission in Massachusetts. And they're responsible for regulating all of the cannabis operations throughout the state. And they have identified as part of their establishment communities that have been disproportionately impacted by the war on drugs. And Amherst is one of 29 communities that has been identified by the CCC. And there's a much longer report that I am going that was in your packet. So you may or may not have had a chance to look at it yet, but this is the report. This was produced by John Getman. And it's very detailed. And so I recommend that you take a look at that when you get a chance. I went from there and hopped over to another report that let's see now I'm not. Hang on a second. Bear with me here. Let's see. Here we go. So when I was poking around, I found that the CCC hired the Donahue Institute at UMass right here in Amherst to reevaluate these communities. And to take a look and see if the Donahue thinks that these communities still stand. And so I noticed here that I knew some of the names on here. And what I ended up doing was reaching out to Mike who worked with us on the Black African American census. And he immediately put me in touch with the principal investigator who is Dr. Jennifer Whitehill. She's a tenured professor in the School of Public Health at UMass. And she was the principal investigator on this latest report that was put together about the disproportionate impact by drug prohibition in Massachusetts. So I had a great conversation with her this morning. And she is very much interested in the work that we're doing. She talked to me about this report. So this report actually, they made the decision not to include Amherst in their recommendation to the CCC because of the high number of college students. So they excluded Amherst. However, they still provided all of the data about Amherst, which is in this report. And the CCC has not adopted. So as it stands right now, Amherst is still one of the 29 communities. But in my explorations with Dr. Whitehill this morning in discussing this presentation that we have coming, what I'm planning to do, and I wanted to open this up for discussion, is I am planning on producing several pieces of information for my colleagues on the council. I am prepared to share this report here and the two reports that are in association with this. I'm also working on a memo that will give a high-level overview of all of this. And I'm creating a presentation with slides. But more importantly, I was hoping to learn from Dr. Whitehall who we might bring to provide expert testimony on the 16th to be able to speak to why earmarking cannabis revenue toward reparations makes a whole lot of sense on multiple levels. And so Dr. Whitehill made some excellent recommendations for people that we may be able to bring. It is a very busy time for folks right now, but I am putting my best foot forward to try to get these folks to join us or at least to provide some sort of written communication that my colleagues on the council can read. The first is Charlene Tidal and she is a former CCC commissioner and a drug policy activist. She is very involved in equitable cannabis laws in the creation and activism and policy making around that. And very much would like to see communities using their tax revenue for preparatory justice. And so I am hoping she may be able to join us at that meeting and give expert testimony. I have also reached out to Jerome Crawford who is the director of legal operations and social equity at Pleasant Trees. Pleasant Trees just opened up here in Amherst but they are a Michigan based company and Jerome is attorney Crawford and heads up their social equity department. So I thought having somebody who is already doing that work in the world but is also a director for a retail operation that we have right here in Amherst could be a really great connection and someone to bring forward for testimony. So those are the things that I am working on. But I wanted to ask you all if you are comfortable with my plan of creating this presentation and these slides. Of course bringing them to our AHRA meeting on Monday for final approval and discussion and all of that. And also if there are other ways we might want to do this that I haven't suggested here. So I see Alexis' hand is raised and I am going to stop sharing for right now. Thank you. Thank you for all of that. And I did learn a lot and I did a lot of research independently as well. And I learned a lot of things and I guess I was wondering if, because I think something that is the overview is going to be very, very, very helpful. And I guess I am wondering, I feel like there is certain things that need to be said just to really make a hit home. So I think that how I started was to get a national picture and seeing that like with regards to drug arrests, the national average of, in terms of arrests, that Black people are arrested four times as much as White people. And then I wanted to put it into perspective, among other things, I wanted to put that information into perspective with Hampshire County. And I was able to find out that in Hampshire County Black folks are arrested 18 times more than White people and that we actually have the second highest racial disparity in the state, which is only second to our neighbor's Franklin County, where Black folks are 116 and a half times more likely to be arrested and their Black community is about five times smaller than ours. And that since 2020, and we're talking about right after 2016, we were legalized from 2016 and contrary to what people might want to believe, yes, indeed Black folks are still more likely to be arrested even in states that have legalized marijuana. And that actually since 2020, there have been at least nine cases in western mass of growing house busts that have been exclusively owned by people of color. And so, and that the Hampshire County DA's office is currently prosecuting several of those cases. And I want to make sure, like, I think that it's easy for us to think about like, oh, like students, whatever, but like, almost all of these people that own these houses in the drug busts were over 50. So I think that it's like easier for us to sort of be like sidetracked by like, oh, well, the students are kind of like, they're changing, I think, but like, not really, right. And so, I want to make sure that we're saying that like we have been and continue to criminalize Black folks for engaging in an activity that white folks not only enjoy with relative impunity, but now use as a means to build wealth. And that as of the end of last year, 73% of active cannabis dispensary owners in Massachusetts, the employees, the executives and the volunteers were all white at 73%. Despite Massachusetts launching the first equity program in the nation for this type of industry. And that the current laws are a means of surveillance and social control that is counterproductive to public safety and community health. And that the steps that we take can only be in the direction of reparative justice centered around racial equity. And that like, even if it's, even if this is not happening every day in Amherst, we have to commute within Hampshire County and to Springfield to get access to BIPOC centered necessities, right. So like, I think that, you know, it's easy for us to think about like, oh, whatever's happening directly in Amherst, but like, no, it's our, it's sort of our larger community and how we're all interacting with each other. So I feel like, as long as we have this piece very clear that like, we're criminalizing Black folks for an activity that white people get to make, get rich off of, like, that's, that's a really big, big piece that I feel like we need to really drive on. That's probably all I have to say. Thank you. That's a huge piece. I completely agree with you on that, Alexis, and everything you said. And so I want to be able to one, get that all of that every bit of what you said to make sure that's there in the, okay. So if you can, if we can work together on that, also we will want to talk about the presentation itself. And so I mean, you just hit home for me. So if you would be willing to be part of the presentation, and we can talk about how that all looks once we know if we are having expert testimony and what that will look like. So yes, okay, pausing there. And I saw that there's Irv and then Dr. Shabazz. One thing that you said, Michelle, was one of the reasons that the Amherst was not considered in terms of the statistical analysis was because of the number of students. And however, our census, 79% of our population consists of students by our census here in Amherst, 79%. So to throw that out, because of students would be a huge error. Because they are 79% of us. And that would be an injustice. And to throw us out of that 29 to 29. And those students who that 79% in terms of the arrest rate for African Americans in Amherst, it's still because it's a statistical representation of students over representation they are overrepresented, but they are a part of our population. Irv, I'm a little closer because you're cutting in and out. They are part of our population, 79%. So they are us. They are us. You can't take 79% and say, well, they don't represent the other 21%. That's statistically illogical. And I think the CCC is actually taking public comment on this, Irv. They haven't embraced Donahue's proposal. And I think that there were some critiques. And Dr. Whitehall was very straightforward with me about those critiques. But more importantly, the underlying data that's in the Donahue report still very clearly identifies it as being one of the 29 communities. So the data does speak to that. The difference between the two reports is that I believe the first report did not include incarceration data. It included arrest data. But the Donahue, I believe, report was seeking to pull out more incarceration data. I have to read both of them very, very carefully again. But sort of all of this information has just come upon me in the past couple of days. So I'm digesting it. Yes, Dr. Shabazz. Thank you so much, Michelle. This is about creating the compelling narrative that can impress you and your other 12 council members to really see the wisdom and the morality and the justice of following our recommendation that we made back in October, that cannabis tax revenues be earmarked, or at least there be a full discussion toward earmarking that particular revenue source as an act of reparative justice. So I just want to add, mindful of the time, very quickly a couple of things. And you were getting at it in what you just said. And that is a lot of this study is based best as only one level of the harm. It is also about the prosecution and the incarceration. Okay, so on my end, I am reaching out to Dave Sullivan, our Chief Law Enforcement Officer for Amherst, whose region includes Amherst, to help with the data from his end that shows the pattern, the historic pattern of overprosecution of African Americans by his office. Okay, this came on my radar in my first year when I moved to Amherst and the case of Jason Vacell in February of 2008 occurred where a student of African heritage student, spotless record, involved in a fight, and Elizabeth Scheibel, who is now a member of the board of trustees of my employer of UMass Amherst, but at the time was the Chief Law Enforcement Officer in the capacity that Dave Sullivan is in. She came at Jason Vacell for this fight with two other individuals who happened to be white, who came away unscathed. Okay, there was a little, his nose, Jason's nose was broken. The other two, yeah, there was injuries, but nothing life threatening, nothing, no maiming, nothing that they weren't fine, you know, in a week or two of healing. And yet, they, no charges at all. They made through all, no indictments, nothing for them, but Scheibel wants 30 years, goes up to this young man for 30 years of his life. And we had to fight that. We had to fight it. And we had to fight Scheibel all the way to the point of the attorneys for Jason, subpoenaing the records of our district attorney's office and finding in the data a pattern of over prosecution of African Americans. And the judge in the case said on a prima, in the hearing on it, on a prima facia basis, he was prepared to let that information come out in court that it was relevant. And that's when Elizabeth Scheibel changed her tune. That's when she had to back up and came down from those felony accounts that she wanted 30 years that she wanted. She brought it down to one year, misdemeanor. Okay, with time served, he had no more time to do. So, but that's how we had to fight. Okay. So the evidence is even in the district attorney's office of the harm. Okay. And that it's not just arrests. It's not just Scott Livingston and his police department or UNPD and its police department or Amherst College and its offices. It's also then what happens at the DA's level in terms of prosecuting, in terms of the kinds of charges that are that are proffered against people, the threat of time, getting them to then not go to court, but to take, you know, to take what's offered and all of that. So I will be approaching that office to see what help they might give in acknowledging their own history. I think some things have changed under Dave. I'm on his community advisory board and citizens advisory board. And I know, you know, Dave has brought in a big improvement from Elizabeth Scheibel. But I will say this, I will see what I can find from there to then bring to further strengthen this argument for cannabis tax revenues as part of reparative justice for your cop, for you and for your colleague's information. Thank you very much. Thank you, Dr. Shabazz. Thank you for that very powerful story too that is wow. This meeting is just wowing me on all sorts of things. Well, we went from housing to court systems. It's all like what we do, right? Powerful, yeah. Alexis. No, yeah, it's funny that Dr. Shabazz said all that because literally the last thing that I forgot to say was, you know, we talk about arrests and like whatever, but like arrests can mean losing a job or public benefits and not to mention the inherent like dehumanizing and traumatizing experience of persistent police encounters. So like that's the other piece too. It's like, I think that people are able to see like, oh, arrest, well, you weren't incarcerated or like, oh, like what's, what, I hear this a lot actually from other town councilors, right? It's like, oh, well, I know this police officer or I, you know, I, but like it doesn't matter. Like your experience isn't the same. So I think that's another piece going off of exactly what Dr. Shabazz saying. It's like, I don't, I don't think that like we really also have to drive home the piece of like this is traumatizing and that people like lose benefits or their jobs just off of these encounters that are completely racist encounters. So that's the only thing I want to add. And I'm emailing you the thing that I said. I mean that I wrote. Thank you so much, Alexis. Are there any other comments right now about this? Yes, Yvonne. Just quickly. I mean, I also have to reiterate, I think that some of these things that we're talking about, we should keep as a list and revisit them so that we can include them in whatever suggestions we move forward. Because, you know, another story similarly is, you know, there was a, you know, the West Indian Day Parade in New York City. My daughter and her boyfriend went there and they just started arresting people because they were jumping barricades. And her boyfriend got arrested. And do you know for three years he had continuances where he had to make trips to New York City to be able to go to court because they would one time they lost his file. I'm just saying that it was just about and I told them I said it's about them keeping an eye on you. That's really what it is. It's all about like you're a Black man in this society and they want to keep you nervous all the time. Like he's nervous like trying to apply for a job just like Alexis said. It's like is this going to show up on my record because they keep continuing this court case? And I don't, I'm in limbo the whole time. I'm trying to apply to school. So I'm saying there are all of these. I know I'm the one who keeps talking about all these other these factors that are emotional. Just like it's traumatizing. It makes it so, we want to create figure out a way to make it so people of color, Black people can just know that there's a pathway for them to buy a house. And there is not going to be this discrimination. There are advocates for us when we end up in some situation where there's you know I'm the only Black person that's in this fight but they're going to arrest me and let everybody else go. I'm mad, I'm mad. It's just difficult. But that's why we're here on this committee. So I would love, I guess I'm saying I would love for us to continue to revisit these stories and figure out if there's a way for us to have at least a statement and then an action plan as a part of reparations. Absolutely. And you know that we can't, I don't think, talk about it in full. But we did as you saw that our letter of intent for the Mass Humanities grant was accepted as eligible for applying. And so that will be on our next agenda. But just in terms of stories, I just want to, you know, kind of tie those two things together. Yeah, thank you. Hala, thank you. Everybody who contributed to that. It was, it's a really big deal that we were are eligible for applying for that. And I have, I know Dr. Shavasnu's Cindy Harberson over at the library who has expressed interest in helping us in writing these grants. So we'll talk about that next time. Hala, I see your hand. I was just going to build upon what Yvonne said like legally, but then also in Amherst, numerous stories of harm like my black goddaughter gotten a fight on a Saturday, nothing to do with school, but then got expelled from the school system. Or her brother who got in a fight with some college students got suspended from Amherst High School when it also had nothing to do with the school system. So there's also different levels of harm when it's not necessarily legal. But there's like consequences just for being black in Amherst and living your life or defending yourself. So I'm grateful that we're pursuing this. I just had to get my voice in the meeting, I guess, and also speak to how specifically in Amherst, the surveillance and the punishments on the black body is disproportionate and super harmful. Thank you. Thank you, Hala. All right, you know what? I think because it's 425, we're going to go to public comment just to make sure we get that in before we close out. And so I'll read the public comment statement quickly. During the public comment period, the chair will recognize members of the public and call the plan. Please identify yourself by stating your full name, pronouns, and address. Residents are welcome to express their views for up to three minutes. The discretion of the chair, the HRA will not engage in a dialogue or comment on a matter raised during public comment, but we will be listening very closely. And before I do that, though, Hala, your hand is still raised. Did you are you good? Okay. So if you would like to make public comment, please raise your hand now and I will bring you into the room. Okay, not seeing any. Then I want to use this last couple of minutes to confirm our plan for meeting next week. I think that if we can meet next week for the full two hours, I know we've been doing shorter meetings, but I'd like to check in with you all to see if it would be possible to meet. Actually, hang on, I can't do that. Wait a second, unless we can move it a little earlier, because the budget forum, and that's also something to know, the budget forum begins that day at five o'clock. It's just before the meeting itself. So our folks able to begin meeting at 2 30 on the 16th and meet until 4 30 or some version in that, like if you have to leave, that's fine, but we'll get at least a two hour window blocked out. Okay, I see three yeses. Irv, does that work for you? Dr. Shabazz. Okay, perfect. So we'll do 2 30 to 4 30, Jennifer. And if there aren't any other comments or member reports or questions, I will close us out. Oh, Dr. Shabazz, yes. Oh, no, no, no, let's know. Okay. Well, thank you all remind you that at one of the recent meetings where the issue came up about, you know, student numbers and students being a high percentage of our population, I think perhaps it was when the Donahue Institute was showing their analysis of the census data. I think I recall from that meeting that your fellow council members and I think even the town manager acknowledged that, you know, students are, Amherst is about students, students are Amherst. It's, you know, for purposes of their study, the cannabis control commission may have excluded Sunderland and Amherst and Williamstown because of high student enrollment as a percentage of the population. But that doesn't mean that we're the case. There's less of a case for us to be made here since we are about students. We are about we're a town about education and educating people. So the fact that they're a large percentage and then one other thing, 12% of the 2017 census data that the Cannabis Control Commission used, I think it's Roman numeral seven figure table. But as in that exclusion table, it notes that 12% of the Amherst population was like black and brown people. So it's not like some of these others that are excluded where black and brown folks maybe 1% or 0% or 2% or 3% Aguam and whatever. We're talking about when we're in a case where we're looking at the question of disparities around black and brown folks. This is a place that should not be excluded on the count of high student enrollment. So I just wanted to also echo bring that point in terms of yes, that may have been a basis for exclusion in in one version of the the CCC or the Commission's analysis or Donahue Institute's analysis, but it should not be a policy view of the town of Amherst in looking at this issue if if indeed it embraces the presence of students. Absolutely, absolutely. And I wanted to correct myself quickly to say that the difference between the two reports, the first one that was commissioned and then the second one is actually that the first one I think didn't include race. And that's what Donahue include and Dr. Whitehall was very clear about that and that black and brown folks are the most impacted and have been the most impacted and that that showed up in that report. And so yes, that's really important. And I don't I don't know if that second report by the Donahue Institute will be adopted by the CCC, but it's been out there for a couple years now and it hasn't been adopted. So I think that although there is great information in that report that we can pull from the 29 cities and still remain the same as far as the CCC is concerned right now. So Dr. Rhodes. One last point about that. Those 79% of students are counted as a part of Amherst population. And that goes towards everything we are about in this town. Without those students being counted, our reimbursements from the state and other ways in which this we are counted in this town would be in terms of money coming back to town from the state would be significantly lower. So you can't count them on one hand and then on the other hand exclude. Yes. Yes, I second that. And I see a lot of other seconds and thirds and fourths. Okay, all right. Awesome. All right, everyone. Great meeting. I'm adjourning at 432. Thank you, everyone, and we'll see you next week at 230. Thank you so much.