 Previously on digest after dark HBC judges radio digest after dark Thanks for joining us for another episode of unfiltered and uncensored talk with young alumni from historically black colleges and universities Also, thank you for checking out us on serious 142 HPC radio on the Howard University network of broadcast properties Very special episode today. We're going to be recapping and reviewing news about Bennett College For women and it's pending accreditation laws It's it's not just to be clear from the outset It's not lost yet they will be formally notified in January of the Southern Association of College and Schools Commission on colleges plans to drop them from their membership of accredited institutions, which the university or the college has indicated it will appeal Which will extend that that process for several months at least through February where another review can be done and then the school will go from there Regarding either reinstatement or if the commission upholds its decision to potentially sue the the commission Which would also extend that until a legal proceeding can take place So a long way to go certainly before Bennett actually and physically loses accreditation So that's that's the first thing that people listening need to know Bennett is accredited It's fully accredited and will be fully accredited for a minimum Minimum likely of at least another year Pending all the outcomes that the school has available to them to to keep it. So Knowing that we begin our discussion today Captain Crunch as usual the producer scholar Jerecia by way of Winston Salem State in North Carolina A&T Fred brother Eric also by way of Winston and UDC and Javal Moss by way of pain and several HBC use where he has worked consecutively left so Um I've done the same thing He's the ball he's the ball of all So I'm not gonna deal with the shenanigans today So, I mean we we start here. So obviously really really sad news because it's it's not like Bennett is an institution where they've had financial struggles or they've had leadership struggles and have not worked diligently to To resolve them or have ignored them. They've been very very active in fundraising They've been very active in trying to change the course of You know, they're they're uh their structure. They're their operational structure to fix this and unfortunately It was it was unavoidable at least in this round of accreditation review. So um I would ask start with jerecia. Um, because you've actually worked there You're from north carolina What was your reaction to the accreditation announcement? And what do you see going forward for the school's efforts to try to have it reinstated by february? um My reaction was um It was expected I didn't know it would be this soon though Um, when I worked at Bennett it was for a short stint um from january 2016 to May 2016 and I had moved on to alabama state or whatnot But during that time just from You know experiences like the processes and the systems at Bennett I knew that it was coming but I wouldn't I didn't know would be no this soon literally two years after I left or two and a half years after I left the institution um now Future-wise, I really think Bennett should pull back from appealing the sacks accreditation and Go the paul queen route and apply for tracks accreditation um Of course, you know as jabal has stated, you know sacks is the most strictest um accrediting body When it comes to their standards and expectations in regards to hbc use um And of course Bennett being the first historically black college for females um I really think they need to You know go back to the drawing board and see where they need to Possibly discontinue some programs or right sides Some departments as as well as um adding To their curriculum In a sense because you know Bennett is a liberal arts based um university um, they once had a two plus two program with no kind of a&t, but I don't know if that is still viable um, but I do know when I was there they signed a member random of understanding with Winston-Salem State University's nursing program because it was females Students there who were interested in nursing, but they didn't have a quote-unquote nursing program um The mou was to understand the coursework at Bennett literally prepped them to um Get into Their nursing program a Winston's nursing program or some some some sort of agreement that How it was worked up basically um Well, I'm sorry good. I didn't mean to interrupt you I would love for Bennett to stay because Not just they don't just have enriching history, but they um They're technically the backbone of east green spiral Um, of course, you know, you got literally more kind of a&t and Bennett are literally separated by stop light and train tracks Right you been to that area but When you think about the strategic plan of more kind of a&t It doesn't incorporate the community like Bennett college does um because Bennett college The development there at Bennett colleges is that they the students literally The women there literally go out into the community and serve the community um As opposed to a&t have been I'm sorry. That's my house phone Um As opposed to a&t having this broader look of service as like a globalization um aspect or piece to it That's that's what we want to talk about a little bit later on But I don't I don't want to to run before our first break before we run out of time I I didn't mean to cut you off sis, but um, I do want to get to jabal because he trash talks sacks all the time um specifically my my dear my dear uh higher ed mother bill wheeling So I'm gonna give I'm gonna give I'm gonna let him flourish for the next three minutes and do it again Because as obviously his reaction to this news is is what can we say about about sacks and its engagement with the not only Bennett, but hbc's at large Um, as you have always pointed out bill wheeling always says the standards are the same But the resources are different. I have to disagree with her When it comes to the standards for hbc I think when we think about sacks and its entirety I think there is a negative perception Of what hbc you stand for and when you have someone leading Um, an organization that does not in my opinion see the value of historically black housing universities despite um what she says I think they're targeted a little bit different. Um, and so as we think about Bennett We think about december 2017 when the institution was given an additional year probation and Not being in compliance with core requirements 2.11.1 financial resources and stability and comprehensive standard 3.10 0.1 financial stability of the problems of accreditation I mean, we think about Bennett college. Okay, we think about the operating budget 2010 they had a head count of 780. Um, now they have a head count about 469 Which was up according to a article I read the other day of 15 percent, but in reality that was really 2 percent Um, if you really look at the numbers because as I state all the time Colleges of the university get in trouble when they when they get student scholarships and things of that nature That's not real money But they count it as real money and not let and they don't tell the true story But that is actually a discount or there's no money to really cover the scholarship So I think Bennett has to do a better job at their Um, and they submit their report in february their fifth monitoring report They have to do a better job at showing the line items that are really discounted. Um, and also Um come with a strategic enrollment management plan I think the issue with Bennett losing accreditation versus saying all good saying all had a money problem Not an enrollment problem in the church bill saying arg out, but Bennett has a Enrollment problem and not a money problem. So um to piggyback on that I think they have to show when they're going to increase enrollment and how they're going to bring students into the institution with Some outdated programs if I stated in with my own institutions, you can't operate like 1960 and 2018 so, um Do I think Bennett college can win most definitely? But they don't definitely have to have a team in place that can sell the institution And they have to make sure that the community that they have reviewing their report is non-biased Tiff you um have a special love for for for Bennett. Um, even though you wore a and t sweatshirt to our christmas party over the weekend Um, no Bennett bell t shirt. No Bennett bell sweatshirt You went to howard I mean, how do you weigh in on this? um First of all, don't do me second of all, um and you know, we Argued privately about how I don't want Bennett to close and xyz um, I want to see Been it better and I kind of or not kind of I do disagree with um Jerisha in a sense a little bit because I don't want to see them I don't I don't think the change comes from getting rid of programs or Right sizing because when I think of right sizing at least at this point for Bennett now I think of downsizing and they need to grow So I don't think it's a it's a thing of You know how you clip your ends so that your hair can grow longer I don't I don't think that's necessarily going to work for Bennett In enough time for them not to lose their accreditation And that's what I'm worried about and I don't know how we can bolster enrollment In what seems like zero time for them to have a bigger operating budget. I just I don't see I don't I don't want to not see it, but I don't see it That's that's actually an excellent point because most colleges think that existence means to grow And I've always been on the opinion that Sometimes you you can grow, but it has to be relative. You may not grow from 1,000 to 5,000 students But you may can grow to 1,500 students and have some of the best programming In some key areas that make sense for your region or your city So growth means Different things to different campuses, but it is that is a great analogy to think about for Bennett But and I also agree with you that yeah, the timing is It's going to be a real obstacle and and fret you you can weigh in on this too That's going to be a real obstacle when you say do something in three months that you haven't been able to do in three years I think it's interesting because I mean We we've had a couple of themes over the past couple of uh with something online and on the podcast of Of support of our schools, right? uh, and there was a Brief moment where we kept seeing a lot of celebrities that were wearing um Parapanelia from certain hbcu's and all that sounds really great and it looks good and it's a good Uh publicity situation for some of our schools And um while I'm here. I just want to give a shout out to um doctor artists and um Everybody down there and benedict that actually took out one of their own pockets and put some bread towards uh Bennett um But it's interesting right now because like you said it's an issue of enrollment um Because that that's where the accreditation is kind of hinders the pond like not having enough students to a degree and i'm wondering Outside of you know the the powers that be that are within this podcast and those who we actually know and advocate for these schools Who's going to be the ones to step out and kind of push people to applying to go to school at Bennett? um there are some people who want who believe that they are um The the ones that speak to to hbcu issues And on a public sphere, but they've been relatively silent on this on this topic um And i'm the role of mine Oh They call the names today. Okay. So that's almost over right right Um, and it's not just it's not just him right? So it's like it's many of us. Um We had a brief discussion on the timeline where things have been relatively silent from Bennett's brother school I mean I feel as though well you can't sweep at nobody else though. Well your dough ain't sweat All right And we might we might need to take a break That's too spicy things to ball to drop it in less than 30 seconds. So let me take a break. We go off of this brother some water And when we come back When we come back, we have to go talk uh to assistant from Bennett to talk about the view on the campus and and what's being done To accompany all of the outside efforts to support uh Bennett in the weeks and months to come This is that just after dark. We'll be right back That just after dark and we're back uh privilege to be joined right now by this Sean all she's in 1990 three graduate of Bennett college for women Talking with us about the view and the perspective on the campus and what things people on the outside meaning non-bells We mean in a positive way could do to support the system as they work To boost financial stability At the college and in a lot of ways prepare Because I think what's going on with Bennett is going to be happening to a lot of campuses going forward in the next few years So the way that Bennett will fare Is going to be a blueprint for How a great deal of our campuses will have to prepare and react When stuff like this happens. So miss hall. Thank you so much sis for joining us this morning. First of all, can you tell us about The the the perspective or the energy on campus right now having talked to several Sisters who also graduated from Bennett students who've graduated What's the attitude in greensboro right now? The attitude is that people are prepared to fight We want to organize of course the big question is always what can we do? When can we do it and so Ours is making sure that our message is succinct and that it is unified You've read several articles in inside higher ed in blavidy Where we're talking about Bennett raising five million dollars or our doors will close And so what I want to submit to your listeners is that we have actually two numbers The survive number is five million dollars. The thrive number is 50 million dollars And why do I say that because if you only look to bring in the five million dollars in two years You'll be back at the same place. And so what we can't afford to do is miss this Crisis which is our capital campaign We have to ask for what we need now And let this be a cautionary tale for other hbc youth to make sure That alums are getting the actual number What's really needed at the college not just for this particular year not just for this budget But where are we financially and so I'll say Pretty confidently that perhaps we've been asleep at the wheel as alum not being as involved as we should be I will admit that firsthand, but I am fully woke as they would say and we are prepared We have organized ourselves. We have an additional committee. It is the it is called The committee for change and progress for Bennett college And we are dedicated solely towards the fiscal stability Of the institution and what we hope to do there And what we are doing is we are asking for commitment not just from celebrities. I love the assay I love jz, but I also love people like super fit that sister went out there and pulled down one million dollars in 90 minutes Those are the kinds of people that we're looking for why because they reflect our population They're black women who have black-owned businesses and we are supporting them and we're asking them to support us I'ma let it ride that y'all didn't send me an article to post in the digest You got Blavity shout out to them shout out the inside. I read nothing for the hbc digest. That's cool I Please no shade involved. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. Please forgive me. Please forgive me. Please forgive me So Here's so here's the question So did you did you feel or do you feel at any point? Because I would tend to disagree that you guys were sleep at the wheel Because Bennett raises money to raise like two three or four million dollars as it isn't a small thing So I wouldn't categorize it as a sleep at the wheel, but did you feel that the school Was in communication with you along the way particularly from 2015 until now about the challenges that were that that the campus was facing financially I am going to have to say no we have not They have not been as as transparent as we would like to be and that's been a fatal flaw However, I will say this that perhaps there are those who thought uh, they were Taking a page from the movie a few good men where Jack Nicholson said you want the truth You can't handle the truth and that may have been the truth for some people that They would not have been able to handle the dirty chief But there are those of us who I believe if you tell us the truth You tell us the truth me as you've seen historically and as you've noted We will rise to the occasion But what you can't get involved in is what we call an education the tyranny of low expectations If you don't expect a lot from your student, you won't get a lot And so while four million dollars is a lot if they were it wasn't enough And so now we've got to get to our thrive number and say where do we need to be in order for Bennett to survive? Revive and thrive that's going to be our battle call Well, let's let's talk about that next part So how does how does Bennett thrive because I think that there are some issues that I think a lot of us on the on the call have had divergent views But all aiming towards the same thing what how do we make Bennett better? And an emerging or or a premier factor in hbcu education because right now some of the challenges are Do you have programs that make sisters want to come and jews Bennett as a number one college and is enrollment more of an issue Then the finances because you guys can go out and raise 10 million dollars a year, but that's tough for any school period Whereas you can't out raise you can't out fundraise tuition dollars And so where does the conversation come from the sisters about what do we do about this enrollment issue? That's a great question. And I think there's a three prong approach that How I would phrase this initially I'm a woman of faith And so I go back and I look at a story in Nehemiah where they were rebuilding the wall and in one hand In one hand, they had their materials and they were building and in the other hand They had their weapons and they were fighting and that's what we have to do We're building and fighting simultaneously. So it's not Finances first or enrollment It's both of those things at the same time in order to even look at enrollment Your doors have to stay open. But while we're focusing on that we also have to look at what do we do well We educate we put out more teachers than anyone else. And so when we look at that We have to say How do we continue to develop this pipeline and not just look at african-americans? But look across this world as we look at educating women Period, how do we bring those people into our institution benefit women to china to turkey to russia to south africa We are global players and we're on that stage But what it is is getting people to recognize and remember their greatness and go back and say Let me introduce myself I've been at college and i'm here to stay and we want your students here's what we can offer And while you're doing that you're going to have to entreat different corporate corporations We had the waijin corporation back in 2016 pay for 20 of our students to come over to china for two weeks To study clean energy. We need to go back to them and ask them Will they partner with us yet again and allow some of their students to come here now? I'm about to go deep and if you allow some of those students to come here There's a little thing called an eb 5 visa And when you get into that you're starting to tap different monies at a different level Which will allow your college to be sustainable Those are the kind of innovative things that alums are in the process of thinking of and bringing to the table to say Here's how then it becomes entrepreneurial and enterprising because that's the only way we're going to survive It can't be an enrollment based model anymore You guys have been working with the school again for three years and the most recent because this isn't the first time that Bennett has had accreditation issue Um, that's correct and you guys have gotten out of it before and we expect that you'll get out of it again But do you believe that this administration? As is constructed We'll take the feedback from the from the alumni and say, okay We're going to do it your way because apparently and I don't mean this in a shady way. Apparently they've not done it in the past I will acknowledge that in the past The administration has Not acknowledged The alumni association and perhaps even the alum who are not affiliated with the association I think what's different this time is that we're not asking I'm not asking for a seat at the table. I'm telling you that i'm here And so being here my presence and sucking up Demand acknowledgement in and of itself because not only am I coming as one person? I've got 10 000 sisters standing beside me and behind me saying we want to see you succeed And so now the question becomes is this about any one-set administration? And I know that it's not This is about Bennett college. This is about 145 years of legacy. This is about 50 former slaves who scrimped together their money to buy the land that we sit on and we refuse to disappoint them We refuse to say that what you dreamed of has now become a nightmare I won't let that happen on my wife And then the final I'm gonna put hun advancement office, right? And then and then the final thing I would ask you is so again with all of these things in consideration And all of the passion and all the intellect and the planning behind this is is very well taken Can you do it? with Christmas Martin Luther King day Before school opens back up. Can we pull this off in three months? Even before February now. I say that with the caveat that is you obviously have more time There's a lot of there's an appeal process. There's a lot of things that can happen So let's take it from the the most generous perspective and say can you do this in a year? because it's been Some years And we've not seen that kind of progress. Can you take it by force and then say in a year? This is where we'll be I believe so I'm going to go back to the book of neomide just because that's where I've been neomide She's going back to the word She's going back to the word Listen because the truth of it is we were founded by the united method It's perfect you will you know, so when we look at that that's our route I'm not going to go away from the word and I know that people said pray But face about works is dead. We're out here working it. I'm here talking with you every single day I've been on the phone our committee members have been on the phone Making the appeal to people who have been despondent who have been disgruntled and saying give us another chance Give us another chance. Give yourselves another chance. We are necessary in this community. We are not irrelevant We're still players and we still have very much to offer. So if neomide can do it in 52 days I have full confidence to be in college camp. Where's the church? Oh Where's the collection plate that was powerful stuff Let me say that when you're passing that collection plate We're asking people to give any combination of 18 73 to benefit that was the year we were founded So if it's 1.8 million dollars, if it's 187,300 dollars If it's 187 dollars, if it's 18 dollars and 73 cents Make your not a donation because a donation you don't care about you give it away But investments when you're a steward when you're a steward over your funds you come back and check on your investment So i'm gonna tell people google us come back. Check us out hold us accountable But in that and don't give a dollar 87 cents that ain't gonna work that we're not No dollar you can't cash up a dollar 87 it won't work So we appreciate you so much sis. Thank you for your time anybody from the anybody from the congregation Who wants to weigh in and what the sister just had to say nah, she said it all She said it all she said everything that needed to be said and gave us the benediction in one How they knew you tell me from our hood bougie uh evangelist This is this i'll say i mean and i hope and i think that the biggest takeaway from this is This is a this is an exercise in if there has been no other and will be no other this is an exercise in Alumni and administration working together because at a certain point If your activists and advocates aren't bought in or you're not listening to them This is the this is the byproduct Now you're in now you're in crisis response mode. So we're gonna see if we can see for the first time a true bridging of stakeholder organizational partnership in the way of not just fundraising not just crisis fundraising But academic development enrollment management jabal like you always talk about strategy building community outreach all these things so Definitely definitely an honor to have you on us sis and um, we look forward to not only this not be the first and last time But continual updates about what the alumni association is doing To raise money and to to build awareness and to support the institution in growing its profile. Thank you again Thank you again for having me. I'm grateful for the honor and we're going to take our second break when we come back We're going to try to digest what the passage just said Uh, and then we're going to move on to uh Aspects of the of the challenges and how they're going to have to be overcoming the next uh months and years to come That just at the dark. We'll be right back That just at the dark, uh, we're talking to vinnit college and his road to uh Reaffirmation and work uh in the months and years to come again If you if you're just joining us or just tuning in The conversation was about the announcement from the southern association of colleges and schools commission on colleges that vinnit Will um soon lose its membership in its accredited body of schools Um, but has opportunities up into february and possibly beyond to appeal or sue for it So we just finished a conversation with uh, a vinnit, uh, sister vinnit. Sean hall who remains with us Who talked about the fundraising and the in the realignment and re-engagement efforts? Uh, that several sisters from the college are are taking uh in greensboro and beyond But I do think that this invites an important conversation with guys about How do you get alumni? We know that there are challenges for alumni to work with with administration and vice versa administration to work with Graduates on getting a school right But what do we have to say or what do we think about the idea of Crisis situations Splitting alumni into different factions. For example, it's not just vinnit We've seen the same thing happen with bethune cookman. Some graduates over here saying we want to do this the alumni association saying Here's our position. We've seen the same thing at southern at fam you some alumni over here doing one thing The association as the as the official body is doing another Do you think that that is part of the obstacle of all sides getting together and saying let's accomplish this goal Tiffany let's start with you because Howard, I don't think that you see a lot of those public splits But you do see that a lot of people have different voices. It leaves behind the scenes We had a really good split in in march whenever, uh This whole financial aid thing happened. There was a pretty good split and I've been trying not to think about it Since you brought it up. Oh, we just go have to go there um But continue on with your question. Well, the question is what do you think? What do you think you get? People together and the and let's just be honest about it The split occurs because some people in alumni associations They have relationships with people in administration. They have relationships with people on the board of trustees So they don't necessarily want to run counter cultural To the friendships and the relationships they have of the people who are running the campus Okay, sometimes the people who are running the campus Don't have the global view of how serious this is or what it's going to take to get out of this right relationships Do not supersede the good of Condition of the university you would think so amen. No, no In order for that to that statement to be true. There is no relationship That can supersede the good of the condition of the university And when you have that attitude you have to make that clear to people and so specifically personally as somebody that has a different level of engagement and relationships with My university leadership and other hbcu leadership That's something that I keep in my mind because I don't ever want for There to be some misunderstanding Because there there are alum who do good things in their in their alumni associations and their local clubs and everything But like if you're trying to make a a systematic Push that requires equal parts between The local alumni association the national association In the actual campus Like you there has to be that understanding But see everybody thinks that they're doing everybody thinks that they're doing good not to cut you off Nobody thinks that yes, let's go out and destroy the school But I think that the difference is and jubbal. Let me bring you in on this because you've worked in this with pain You've you've you've you've interfaced with board. You've interfaced with boards alumni school. Otherwise How do you how do you navigate the differences of opinion on how do you approach something serious like an accreditation review or accreditation loss? I think the both the biggest thing that you have to do is stand firm on your beliefs Um, and when you don't have a firm belief system, you don't Um, you kind of get suckered into everybody else's opinion um, and so I think You know for me, I was on the board of trustees as a as a student as a SGA president Then I was the youngest elected alum to the board of trustees for the national alumni association And then navigating that with those relationships I formed on the board of trustees and being outspoken about leadership and then being outspoken about Not putting a plan together to address accreditation And you know, I was that alum and I said it before that people hate it But when you value your institution And you know what your institution had To offer the world You stand firm on your belief systems without making it better. And I think that that navigation comes from those relationships Being honest with those people that your friends was on the board being honest with those alums who hate you Being honest with those alums who like you And let them see the bigger picture the bigger picture is not about one person The bigger picture is about the college and I've said this over and over again Schools are supposed to outlive its alums. The alums are not supposed to outlive the institution And so you get the mindset that you are Saving your school for generations to come It takes you out of the equation And because when it's just focused on you and what you think is The main reason the school should divide you fail every time So the most prominent point to make is always your school should live longer, you know I totally agree with you, but jerisha that doesn't happen And there are too many campuses where we see how the divide plays out and no one no one Fixes it no one says Okay, well, let's talk about how we we come to a middle ground We have one group doing one thing another the group doing another thing And no one takes a position and I'm gonna tell you how logistically this this is damaging Sean talked about The lack of communication they may have received from the administration about exactly what the financial picture was What was the enrollment picture? How many people are we going to need to get to pull this off? How much money are we really going to need to pull this off? There's a reason that not only did that not come from the school, but it didn't come from the alumni either And by the way, both of them have separate mechanisms oftentimes of how they alert other stakeholders about what's going on Whether that happens whether that happens through a website whether that happens through an email Whether that happens through distributions that go to alumni chapters all over the country and whether they tell their membership So you're not only talking about This is a this is a this is something we have to confront But now you're talking about avenues by which people even know That there is something to be confronted This isn't changing it's happening at several institutions all over the country the same way Literally what are we supposed to do because there are people living this that are going to listen to this and say Yeah, you're right. You're right. You're right. It can't be about one person. How do you change it? Let me offer something If I can I think I would say stay in the book right and I'm not talking about the word But i'm talking about for benic college We are in the same book the national alumni association is in the book And the committee for change and progress for benic college We're in the book. We're not on the same page And that's okay We're in the book and I think if you will do that that's that's where the fighting really starts You're trying to get me to dissolve my organization or see it the way you see it to value the relationship that you value To put your relationships over the good of the college when I don't think that that's the best when I know It's not best uh to not be you want me to not be as vocal you want me to not share as much But again, my goal is not to get on the same page My goal is to stay in the book which has been at college and move her forward Keep her first and foremost and I think if we do that We'll be at a good place because I may never win you over as the naa My goal is not to be naa president. My goal is letting me be chapter president My goal slowly is to make sure that we survive that we revive and that we thrive. That's it Dries you gonna say um I cannot personally speak on this because um, my two alma maters are very transparent in my opinion When it comes to What is going on? um And I can't and I'm not going to sit here and compare because that would be just outright wrong but I do agree with Sean and her views on how to operate um as or as organizations as alumni organizations or a um you know outside committee because at the end of the day like like jabal said It's about the school. You want the school to be here another 145 years? um to not just, you know Serve the community but educate the community as well because they have a purpose and also that um That there is a place for being in college for women. Um, and I just hope that they find That niche in their place so that they can capitalize off of it and keep creating more women like mishawn That we need out here in this world Eric, thank you Eric, let me let me throw it to you real quick right because you actually work with an organization that uh specializes in in focused advocacy legislative advocacy for hbc who's the hbc collector This is outside of the universe of Anafio a tmcf a umcf that all do the same thing This is a group of young alumni who said we want to do it this way and you went out and did it Two or three years. I think of advocacy legislative advocacy day on the hill When does it get to the point where you say? These bigger older groups aren't doing it the right way We need to do it this way and then you get some people together and y'all do it But then you start to get pushed back from the older groups How do you how do you get as sean said in the same book with those bigger groups? This is going to come across real wrong and I got to preface it just like that um Oh lord Older generations have a responsibility to teach what they know Give space to the younger ones to come up with better plans and to then eventually move out the way and I'm not saying that this to silence older generations, but the the the focus of It's like with any organization, right? Things are done a certain type of way and you want things to always be done the same type of way But meanwhile the world's moving forward Things change things become better things become automated things become streamlined And you want to keep doing things the same way And things don't If it ain't broken then don't try to fix it doesn't work when you are not being honest about the fact that it needs to be fixed And when you have you have alumni groups that are Some of the younger alumni that are coming up and they're doing good work And they're trying to address an issue that they see fully Because they're right in the middle of it and they get pushed back from those who have a lot a little bit more power a little bit more influence And just general for the some of the facts of the matter they have a little bit more money because they've been making money Making a lot longer Right, right at some point It's like we we don't us who are young us who are younger us 40 folks We don't have all the answers and I'm not gonna sit here and say we have all the answers but We are like it's like she said we are saying the same book the ultimate goal for us is the same goal We want our schools to survive and to do well But when you have so much in fighting because people have ego problems when you have people Who just think that things should just go the way that they've always been because it's comfortable for them It's bigger than just you by yourself and I see that a lot from the legislative end Of working with I see that working at higher education You have a lot of people who just think things are The processes of these have always worked, but I'll tell you why that's a challenge I tell you why I think it's part of the challenge and that's going to be our last section Like some of the challenges that are in the way, but to your point about Specifically about if it ain't broke don't fix it Then it and so many other hbc's have fixed it over the years without That the outward push from alumni and students like we said this was an erupt and say something though Let me interrupt and say something There in is the fatal flaw. Yep. It was never fixed. It was never fixed. That was going to be my point They never fixed it It was a stopgap measure. You you you did the tourniquet, right? You did the tourniquet, but when you open them up, I want to go to glinda hatchet's daughter-in-law Very vibrant. She was pregnant. She gave birth Her husband said that she wasn't doing well They alerted the the nurses that were going to do a CAT scan and some other tests And every hour he kept asking and they kept putting it off They kept putting it off and it kept putting it off Finally, they said, you know, she's not at the top of the list She's just not a priority by the time they opened her up Nine hours later. She had three liters of blood in her abdomen and she had hemorrhage. She was dead That's what's happening to our colleges by the time you open this situation up It's too far gone to be remedy. But that is that is the challenge because in previous years They didn't know what too far gone meant They don't want to and I want to add to that. Go ahead, bud I want to add to what she said. I think the problem is Too many times the board leadership because it's primarily happening at our private hbcs We're just going to talk about it. Our private hbcs have too many people on board of trustees They don't have financial rhetoric And when we talk about board of trustees and I've said this, I'm spicy today yet I Am tired of going into board rooms that have 20 people on the board and 17 of them are pastors One of them has raised any money for their church building fund But you know sit on the board and tell me how she can direct funds for the institution to continue to operate Oh, my that's right. It's not going to happen without dated practices So now and then you go, but that's the The I and in my the demographics might have changed but the average age of the board member of board teams is About 55 and up. Hold up. Let me bring a gallon. I need to bring all the gallon water in here Let me take another Because y'all getting into Ages y'all talk about people y'all talk about the preachers So let me stop and save this for the last Juiciest and spiciest section Which is the actual problem because we do want to get into that but let's take one last break that I just have to dark We'll be right back That just at the dark and we're uh continuing our conversation about benning college and it's rolled back to recovery and reaffirmation and thriving Captain crunched Reese's scholar frappler jay moss and shon hall from benning college A graduate of benning college. So let's get into the real conversation about The actual challenges. So here's I'm going to outline some of them as I see them Number one, it's a private school Um, and I say that as a challenge because as jubal said you you have a certain set of of challenges that that are very difficult to overcome First no one's going to check the board The board is is self surviving and self appointing There is no oversight body that tells the board what to do who to appoint who to let go x y and z Number two, even with the private the private designation There is no oversight body that says you have to report some of your financial standing Other than an annual report, there's nothing that forces them and tax returns. There's nothing to say Here's what you made. Here's what you spent here where some of your problems lie And there's no other mechanism to force their strategic plan to be revealed to anyone short of who they want to show it to um Number two from a from a big perspective, and I don't mean this is in a shady way And we've been debating this for a couple days It is a real problem That the explosion of north carolina ant Parallels the danger facing benet college Um, it is not to say that benet is not an attractive college Is not a productive college and what it does for its its students and its graduates. It is to say From a global perspective, and that's all I do. I just sit and look at all these schools from a bird's eye view There are there are there are a few colleges if any growing as fast or as comprehensively as north carolina ant Nationwide They're at 12 000 students. Nobody's even close They're probably going to be the first hbc period to get to 20 000 students Nobody's even close So, I mean it boring anything happened like a leadership change or some kind of some kind of, you know Legislative push that does something otherwise if they're on the trajectory now They're likely to get to 20 000 students in a certain amount of time um That that can't that can't be underscored because that is going to shape the way that you recruit That is going to shape your value proposition when you talk to students who have choices And that's going to talk about some of the things that you have to do academically As if to say What are we doing and at what price point that makes us more unique or more profitable or more A better option than the school right across the train tracks Number three, it has to be something where and and jerica talked to this earlier About the the the amount of outreach that the that the college does There clearly is a is a reason and there is a justification for a women's college in 2018 If you didn't believe it before all you got to do is say me too All you got to do is look at how many black women are in entrepreneurship All you got to do is look at how many black women are being elected to government. There is a place For education that is that is a gender exclusive. There's no question about it Does the general population know that? So much in the same way that there is a there's a place for hbc us do most african americans know that Or are they sold by other things like who went to the sugar bowl? Are they sold by other things like who has the best the best buildings? Are they sold by other things like who's in the fastest growing city? It's not a question of what value the institution has it's a question of do are people Willing and open to understand what that value is So now we can go free for all spice now Can I absolutely talking so? So From working in higher ed and students choosing colleges students usually choose That college based off their parents reaction And the number one thing that gets a parents reaction is well number with two things is safety and price From working at Bennett being how small it is um And what it offers as an institution But i'm looking at the prices now for 2018 2019 And just to live on campus It's 29,659 Where you live off campus It's 200 dollars cheaper There's no different reaction with with tuition price basically There also when you look at the other colleges in the surrounding area including the community college GTCC, which is made up of six campuses Bennett is the most expensive Institution hired for your institution To attend in the city of Greensboro So that I believe is a problem because price and also Um, thank you because their public safety is probably no more than three people four people at the most Being that the being that it's 460 girls there The ratio to public safety officers to female students on campus Needs to be a little bit higher in my opinion just from you know doing studies on what You know draws what draws parents and students towards your institution And it's again. It's not to shade Bennett. It is to say here are a real set of factors. These are real factors That influence and can make the difference between 469 students And 714 students so which makes the difference just real quick Which makes the difference between do alumni got to raise 10 million dollars? Or are they okay raising four or five a year? Right And that's what that's the thing if if we have to keep No, and I'm speaking as if I'm a I'm a bell, but I'm not but it's as an alarm. We're all bells If you have to keep raising five million dollars every year then It's somebody in your institutional effectiveness or advanced my office that doesn't need to be there no more Tiffany you gonna say? Yeah. Yeah, so I I agree with that first part Dreesha about how Children or students I should say tend to temper their college choices around what their parents say and though I really uh Don't like to talk about my mother's podcast episode At the same time You gonna see him She told y'all what she and my father What they do like it is it is a thing Or it should be the case for everybody where it's like yo, this is what my child says they want to do I'ma make sure that my child Can get as close to That point or that goal as they possibly can and all all we are really talking about is Support when a child feels like he or she can do whatever They will attempt whatever all we need is support and so to that I think about that in terms of It will in my daily life helping children figure out where students figure out what their best HPCU is They literally are blank slates Some of them come with support. Some of them come without support Some of them don't believe in themselves. So we have to Build them up and be supportive so that they can go on to choose a better in my opinion HBCU at at that better school than they would if they hadn't met me in my in my team but that's an that's an excellent point because Bennett Bennett recruits heavily it's again. This is not a question of the is the school lacking in in some minimal operational areas They recruit the alumni recruit They fundraise so everything that you would hope that the stakeholders would do they are doing The question is do you do you have enough sisters doing it? And can they move fast enough that they can get about this whole now? The other thing is this is from an institutional perspective. Sean Has been it done academically? Has it done culturally? The things that it should do so that when you go to a sister who is choosing between a Bennett or Spelman or North Carolina ANT or even UNCG That it is clear and it is no question Based on their personality, of course that that Bennett is the right choice I probably have to say No And again, I think it doesn't behoove me to lie doesn't behoove the institution for me to sugarcoat it We've we've not done everything that we could do Uh, and and that's being every person every bell sitting on the wall Now again, some of this gets back to personality clashes Some of this gets back to power tips and struggles all of the things that we've talked about before And it mires down to recruitment it mires down to Enrollment because there are people who would get out there and go and recruit But I want to be honest just for two seconds because I think it'll bless somebody's life I hope some of my businesses are listening. Hello when you have people in areas like Alabama Oh, you have people in areas Of georgia different pockets of georgia and the only recruit boots that you have on the ground are alums It behoves you to get the most recent information to them and in an expedient fashion when that doesn't happen You don't hurt me personally. You hurt the university Exactly hurt my You you hurt my opportunity to get the word out about benefit because people know miss shawna and how great she is And how how many things she's done But you don't see anything in writing because that's what I tell all of my daughters I've got four girls and I tell them always get it in writing. Let's read something Don't tell me how great benefit is show me. Okay. I'm gonna even go you one better We are now in the 21st century. Give me some visuals Let me say a little clip that somebody's put together for two minutes and 30 seconds that shows the college Where you've been and where you're going you got to do that We're not in the dark ages anymore But then and this actually and i'ma go to gibal at this point because this speaks to his point about Is there a different set of rules accrediting wise? Because part of the way that you salvage your accreditation is by saying, okay If we're not making enough money, we've reduced our costs And sometimes in reducing the cost Just what department gets hit first institutional advancement marketing and public relations fundraisers Which look at that See what I mean, so the things that that would would bring you students And the people who would design those materials and shoot those videos and all that kind of stuff Typically those are the ones that get hit hit first not the vice president That makes double the salary of two or three people on campus Not the not the director of something This is true, but this is where our strategic thinking comes in we have a system I'm going to put her right out there. Her name is michelle huff huff entertainment her client Kamiya her client grant hill. This is what she does. She does pr for a living So when your people get cut what you have to do is engage your alum first You got to know who we are you got to know your boots on the ground You got to know our proficiencies and our skills and you reach out to them and say hey Can I get we've got about and I'm making this up off the top We've got about 15 sisters that I know in pr You can hit each of them and ask for pro bono services for a month and that takes you through 15 months Where we have utilized their resources and not ours That's how you get this done so that the work still continues even if you had to cut a little bit But when you don't know who the alum who the alum are Then you can't really tap into our skill set then the university as a whole suffers Eric you gonna say I just It's too many things going on right now Well, okay, let's welcome back you freckles Because I was gonna I was gonna say I didn't want to rehash the story but like You know We we don't we talk about In dirisha and I we we go through this all the time And we talk about how a lot of issues that higher education has gets lauded as issues that black schools have And and and you know In the biggest difference is is how much money in the coffers you have to uh To to prevent things from getting out there to the masses as Perception damaging events Yeah Right So, you know, you just brought up the whole thing about where's the money come from with where the budget get cut at We'll talk you just said pr and i'm saying it's all cyclical Because you got a pr issue Let's say pr is getting money taken out of it right now for benet, right? All right, but benet needs more students Exactly So why would you go there? If anything you say we need we need about a hundred grand more for pr Yes, right you need to put more money in right, you know Like I said, it's it's a lot it is so much that you could just really touch on it's Eventually though like benet and this is like a this is ringing the bell for a lot of other schools But essentially You can't you can't you can't fix your issues by you can't fix Uh, uh internal bleeding by continue to put band-aid on something now Now and that that can't put a band-aid on a bullet shot wound We but we have to get to the point of realizing or at least our administrator's understanding What is a what is a band-aid versus what is a suture versus what is surgery? Because we've not done it that way. We've always been able to escape again. This is the second time The second round of benet facing probation and accreditation warning This is just the first time that they said you're you're not going to make it And so if you've been able to skate by two three times just google just google it How many times have schools gone on warning and probation and they've gotten out of it And that's that's why jabal and i debate in a brother way, of course If they could have done this a long time ago if they wanted to knock somebody off the map It would have been all too easy to do This is it's getting it was different. I think leadership was different. I agree with that. Um Um and so to go back to your earlier question about you know, there being some different standards I do think there's certain standard and different standard and different undertone Taking when it comes to our hbcu even in in the Interview bill we went back to the president deal last week. She said i'm afraid We're going to see more and more small five institutions either close and get dropped on membership But I would hope they would merge so that their legacy is not lost But that's a valid that's a valid point However Speaking to that point When we talk about our small private institutions Specifically we're taking a look at benet today Benet has an option Will they take the option is is the question My thing is so we're talking about involvement management My goal for benet would be a move similar to benedic college You cut tuition by five thousand dollars and you increase your enrollment We'll take it and examine what is the cost What does it really cost to educate a benet bill? Is it 29? Or can you survive off of getting a student off the 23,000? Um and in going your in growing your enrollment Now I say this to say enrollment again cannot be the only thing that stabilizes your budget What are your stats? What are your bonds? What is your endowment look like? You know, you have a surplus every year This year you had a surplus of $461,000. You're aiming for another $300,000 surplus at the end of this fiscal year What right sides have you done in academic offerings? If you have a program that has three or four students majoring in it, why do we need it? We need to have to have a bottom line conversation. Is this program really helping us get where we're trying to go? But that also but that also goes to your point because if they cut too many programs, then you're not in compliance with with with sacks either But when you stand cut programs, you also can look at what programs are beneficial to your community What what what programs are beneficial? Um, right that your alums have taken up and have gone in florist then Um, and I think you have to tell that story with sacks. You'll see i'm a i'm a firm believer that Judgments are already made for small hbcu before you even get there. I mean, I say that to say Even with my own school when when sacks decided to take us Out of membership the night before we even pleaded our case The president and another member of the committee were having dinner in our restaurant and did not know That the pain college board of trustee members were sitting at the table directly behind them and they had a conversation Said yeah, we're already decided to take them out of membership You know you those conversations before you even hear the person's plea And you're having that conversation in open form. I think that it it It goes against the number one principle of sacks. You'll see a mess integrity um, and so Again, I want to continue to state the fact that we have to have some some checks and balances with sacks We'll see and how they judge institutions because I'm still at the same point of Yes, the Episcopal church bailed out saying oh, oh, I'm never mind. I'm not even gonna go there But let me let me say this they do they do allow for some some And I will concede the point some checks and balances because they they allow on those site review committees and those overview committees Sitting in former presidents from hbc who can effectively make the case and say yeah, they didn't meet their enrollment goal But these are the challenges they had And they contextualize why it's different for hbc's versus any other kind of school that may be in the membership at large or even in the region So they do have fail safes there if they can if they can make the story work They make the story work And I think that happened for saint augs that people were on that committee that were able to say The church is going to do x y and z but let's finish out with this and I'm going to finish out with sean With the with the elephant in the room and I mean no offense by this And I'm asking you unfairly admittedly to speak for all benet bells on this question If somebody came to you from administration and said, you know what? It's too much. It's too hard We ought to think about merger with a and t. What would be the reaction of of of Yes, I think the reaction from benet bells would be if you're not up for the challenge get out the way So somebody else can step up. That's what I honestly think I think that north Carolina a and t and let me let me be really clear I took at some point in my time at benet I took more classes at a and t than I did at benet because we were allowed to you know You have a consortium and it worked for my schedule So i'm receiving awards for academics and all kinds of stuff and i'm not even an aggy, you know But you've got me on the road People thought I was a and t you know, but it was a wonderful opportunity sell that Some people don't even know that we have dual enrollment program with a and t And so if you're wanting your daughter to come and get that I don't believe the magic so I call a black girl brilliant If you're wanting to get that black girl brilliant experience Then benet is the place for that now how we reconcile that with the money is a whole different animal But to say just wholesale like bell wheel and said that merge Merge our identity merge who we are while we were founded in the first place I don't think so now if we had been like some other schools lingering around for several years without accreditation And and just no hopes of getting this thing together That then maybe we ought to take a different route, but I think it's too early to throw in the towel for benet college I think that there are some other things that we can do I think that there are some programs and some monies that can be put together But what it's going to require is strategic thinkers who are not benet bell to come to the table and say, you know what? For the culture we're going to do it for for my black daughter who may want to attend I want to do this for my black grandmother who came here when she couldn't go anywhere else I'm going to do that and so this is on everybody else and not just us to say let's get it done This has been a fascinating conversation and one we're going to keep having uh because in the next weeks and months Of course, uh benet will keep fighting and there will continue to be stories to be told about this So, uh, Sean says we appreciate you coming on frat. Oh six as usual Jay moss. Thank you again, uh for the argument on accreditation. I learned more today than I knew yesterday Uh, captain crunch. Thank you his producer. Uh, scowl. Jerisha. Thank you as well. Tiff. Are we are we going to do this again? That's a question answer Can I give a quick shout out real quick? No I Not going So to Rachel pridgen Ashley Jones, aisha lasseter And kim dry dancy. They all work at benet within campus life and student life And when I tell you those women are actually Doing the work. Oh and santiba Campbell. She's around They actually work at benet now I'm pretty sure other people are but I know for a fact just from working with those women with my short extent there They love benet just as much as I do And they want to see benet stay and do the work as well And that's just a microcosm of people on and off campus. We feel that way. Um, and that's just that's just hbc's at large people Attached their lives and their spirits to these schools And so we can't let it go out like this and we can't get let it go out without any strategy But family, thank you all so much. Um, thank you again for tuning in to digest after dark. Thank you again For your support on hbcu radio on series 142 series x7 until next time. Peace