 I'm Chris Leetham and this is the economy and you here at Think Tech Hawaii. Today we're going to be interviewing and discussing candidacy with Patrick Shea, who's running for a house seat and it's Patrick, which house seat is it? It's the house seat District 49. District 49. Tony Ohay, Mauna Willie and Olamana. Okay and then who's currently sits in that seat? The incumbent's name is Mr. Ito. Mr. Ito? Okay, yes. He's been there quite a while. I think he's been there a couple of decades. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's sort of a, it's a tough fight when you're going after somebody who's been in the incumbent that long. Yes, it's a bit of an uphill battle. Yeah. He's an established candidate and he's a, he's a nice kind person. Yes. So he's popular. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But you know, sometimes we need to bring new energy into the legislature. So one has to appreciate that. And that's exactly what's compelling me to run. I mean, I saw a couple of things happen in the legislature. This year, a couple of bills that I thought were really bad. And I would like to prevent those sorts of bills from coming up again. Well, I'm worried that you only saw a couple of them. Well, how much time do we have? Yeah, I've seen the bills that come through the legislature and it makes for an interesting read, you know. So yeah, yeah, yeah. If you've got nothing better to do and sit down and read bills for a couple of days, you'd just be amazed at some of the stuff that comes across. And I don't think that we're engaged enough as a community or as a people to really know enough about these things. And so sometimes we don't, we don't know the issues well enough. I'd like to, you know, get those things out there. Yeah. And one of the things that I think is challenging, and I'm going to just put that out there for anybody at the legislature that might be listening, is the search engine for looking up bills needs to be revisited. It's very difficult to work with to find the bills that you're looking for. So if any of the programmers that are out there listening to this program, I just want to give you a clue. We'd really like to see that improved. But anyway, thank you for coming on Think Tech Hawaii. And so some of the concerns we talked about earlier before the show was something called the public trust doctrine. And I think this is one of those issues that sort of resonates with you. Maybe you can give people a little bit of a background on what this, how this sort of became an issue for you. Sure. The Hawaii State Constitution is really unique. It has a provision called the public trust doctrine, which says that all public natural resources are to be held in trust by the state for the benefit of the people. Natural resources. Natural resources. So does this mean that oil, if we were to discover oil, would not belong to us, it would belong to the state? If the oil were on state land or under state land, then it would be, you know, public. Okay. And the same way that water is. Okay. And one of the things that really got me excited about making a run for this house seat was the passage of House Bill 2501, which is the bill that allowed a corporate entity to divert water on Maui, even though it admitted that it had no need for the water anymore. So it wasn't to serve the public good. Exactly right. Ah, okay. In fact, it doesn't serve the public. I thought that by passing 2501 and allowing the corporate entity to continue to divert water, even when there was no need for it, and even when they admit that that diversion will not serve the public. I thought the legislature violated the public trust doctrine. Uh-huh. That doesn't serve them. A and B. I don't think that it does, except to the extent that it might preserve a possibility of using these resources later, but they have no current need for the water. And so that's why I think that we need to really take a look at that and what we've done. If you look at trust law generally, a person that serves as a trustee has a fiduciary responsibility to the beneficiaries of that trust. And then they're supposed to operate as a prudent man, right? There's something called a prudent man rule. Yes, that is in trust law. Yeah, sure. But more importantly, I think they have to behave in a way that only benefits the beneficiaries. The trustee should not be allowed to do anything that benefits itself, or a person that's not a beneficiary. So to analogize that to the public trust doctrine, we are the beneficiaries, as citizens of the state of Hawaii, of this public trust. And to the extent that that water is being diverted, and we're not able to benefit from it, the state I think owes us a duty, and has violated that duty by allowing a corporate entity to have that asset instead of- But is this the first time that's happened? I mean, hasn't this happened before? I think it has, and I think it happens often. But this just seemed to me to be the most blatant recent example. And like I said, it really got me excited about this run. Now, what would you suppose would be the resolution way to resolve this, and what should have been the solution that should have been put before the legislature? I think that they should have voted that down. I think it should be repealed. I think that the holdover tenancy rights that the corporate entity has as to that water should not be enforced or enforceable. And I think we should allow native Hawaiian collo farmers and other organic farmers, individual people that would like to use this water to farm. We should give them an opportunity to do that, since it's just kind of being wasted since- Is it just running back into the ocean then? Yeah, well, it's diverted to A and B's areas, whereas if, in other words, it's not flowing from Maoka to Makai the way it naturally would. So if we would allow it to do that, then people along that path would have the opportunity to farm. Are there people in that area that would be able to do farming? There are. I mean, does that entity really exist? I mean, are there people there that definitely would have benefited from that water flow? I think there are. I'm sorry for interrupting you. The answer is yes. And these are the folks that were protesting the 2501, and it was in the news quite a bit a couple of months ago. So clearly there are people who now are losing out because of this. But one of the challenges, of course, when you have a large corporation, they bring a lot of influence to the table. True. Yeah. And so now, and then I guess when you have something like this, the question is does this detract from our ability to bring in other investors or bring more investors in Hawaii? And one of the challenges that we've talked about in Hawaii is we have a shortage of housing. We need to do more to take care of our kupuna. Right? Are we doing the things that we need to be doing to attract investment? And is this would this be, you know, rolling back this kind of a law, would this be helpful or harmful to that cause? You know, I don't think you would have an effect on that cause because this law that was passed is so specific that it only benefits a single corporation. It's not a yet. It hasn't been generalized to benefit all corporations at the expense of individuals. At this point, it's just that one company. So I don't think that this really has an effect on that, but you're right. There are things that we can do that we ought to do to inspire investment and business. One of the reasons, another reason I'm running for office is that I think it's just so hard for people to make a living in Hawaii now. It's tough. It is tough. Right. I mean, it feels like you're on this sort of treadmill. And no matter how hard you run on this treadmill, you always feel like you're slipping back. You're slipping back. You're not gaining, Brian. You're slipping back. Indeed, you are slipping back. Yes. You know, when I was growing up, my dad worked at Pearl Harbor. My mom was a school secretary. They were hourly wage earners. They could afford to buy a house. They could afford to send me to college. I just don't think that we're in a position where people that would be similarly situated today would be able to do both of those things. And then we have this brain drain issue where you send folks, you send your kids away to college, and the job that they can afford to have is on the mainland. And so I'm running for office because I don't want to sit across the kitchen table for my two boys and have them explain to me why they won't be coming back to Hawaii. Well, I've already had that conversation with my daughters. Yeah, I have one in Washington, D.C., one in Seattle, Washington, and that's where they've hung their hats to make a living. So because financial security isn't imperative. And one of the challenges, of course, is being able to come back to Hawaii after you've gotten an education, find a well-paying job, and be able to afford the cost of living to be able to buy a home. These are tough. It's tough. We're not building enough housing units to meet our current demand. And I guess maybe this is just a paradox of being in Hawaii. Maybe it's a paradox. Maybe the challenge is because we're in a beautiful place. We have a limited amount of land. We're always going to have... Maybe we're always going to have this problem. Or is there something we can do? We've had this problem for a long time. It seems worse now, but maybe that's just because it's the way I'm seeing it. But our islands are beautiful. Everybody would like to have a house here. So we compete on a global scale for real estate. But our jobs are all tied to the service industry. And so the wages don't keep pace with the value of our property. There's no way they keep pace. Absolutely not. Not possible. No, that's right. So we talked a little bit before we got started here about we're going to need 65,000 new housing units just to keep pace with demand. And development's going to be necessary. We're going to have to provide that. But we need to be able to provide it in a thoughtful and a conscious way to the extent that we can preserve natural open space. We need to do that. That's right. I would agree with that. Yeah. And we need to... I'm talking about my kids a lot, but we need to be able to say, we want you to be here. We want you to have the opportunity to lie at home here. But we also need to make sure that the Hawaii that we leave them is as good as or better than the Hawaii that we got to have. And that means taking care of the public open spaces and being thoughtful about the way we develop. Yeah. I think you're right. You need park space, because I think park space is what makes an area a community where people can come together and do things and socialize and have that sort of group consciousness about what's going on in their community. And we are going to be changing, though. I mean, I think cars are definitely going... We've flooded the roads with vehicles. I don't think we can keep doing that at the pace that we've done it. We are going to have to find alternative solutions. The rail certainly presents some unique challenges, one, because it's a huge investment. And the question is at the end of the day, is it going to pay off for us? I don't know the answer to that question. It's horribly over budget. It's really a city and county issue, so my seat won't have control over making decisions about that. But on the budgetary side, there is some influence that the state legislature can have. I think it's important to make sure that it doesn't continue to go over budget the way it has. Do we need to find more creative solutions to our traffic? We've got to keep working to develop... You know, I just saw on TV recently, this new bus that they have in China that actually drives over the top of cars. That thing is amazing. That's an amazing vehicle. And I'm thinking to myself, well, if you're going to stop the rail in Middle Street, maybe you need to have these overhead buses come down nimmets. You'd have to reconfigure nimmets. But the good news aren't any sort of overhead things going on a nimmets highway. So you could, I guess, potentially have overhead buses going on there. I mean, it wouldn't be probably the optimal solution. But considering where we're at, we can't keep going with more cars. Yeah, the first... I saw what you're talking about. And when I first saw that, I thought, gosh, if we had only known about this a few years earlier, maybe we could have nimmets. Because it doesn't look very expensive by comparison. Yeah, by comparison. Yeah, well, I mean, you have to sort of make some sort of tracks or something for the wheels to go in. But clearly, if I'm not having to sit in my car and I can ride on a bus that's going over the traffic, that sounds like a pretty cool solution. It does to me, too. Yeah, yeah, I really like that. So, but let's also talk a little bit about... Well, we're going to take a commercial break. Let's do this. Let's take a commercial break and we'll come back. And let's talk about, also, let's talk a little bit about our capuna. Let's do that. You know, that's an issue dear to my heart as well. So we'll take a commercial break. We'll be right back. I'm Chris Lita, and this is The Economy and You. And we'll see you in just a second. Aloha, this is Maria Mera. And I'm here to invite you to my bilingual show, Viva Hawaii on Think Tech Hawaii, every other Monday at 3 p.m. We're here to inform, motivate, and entertain you. Join us. Hi, I'm Ethan Allen, host of Likeable Science on Think Tech Hawaii. I hope you'll join me every Friday at 2 p.m. to discover what is likeable about science. We bring on scientists of all ilk, astronomers, physicists, chemists, biologists, ecologists, and they talk about their work. And more importantly, they talk about why you should talk about their work, why you should think about their work, why you should like their work. I help them bring out why their work is understandable, why it's meaningful, why people should care about it, why people should support science. We have a good time. We talk about current events of interest. We talk about historical events sometimes. We dig deep into their research, why they do, what the joys and delights and frustrations of their work are. And in all, we show a real world of science, a real world of likeable science. I hope you'll join us every Friday at 2 p.m. Well, hello, everybody. We're back. I'm Chris Leetham. This is The Economy and You. And today's guest is Patrick Shea. Patrick is running for House seat 49. And in the Kaniui area? That's right. Kaniui. And well, okay. So we were talking a little bit about some of the challenges that we face here. We have a couple of issues of course, housing and taking care of our capuna. These are issues that I ran on my campaign as well, because I think these are issues that we just can no longer ignore. Homelessness has just become absurd. I mean, when I drive around, I can count how many homeless people I can see between the time I get off the freeway till I get to my condo. And I know I see five or six homeless people every night. So where do we go with this, with housing? Can we do to actually get more housing developed? Well, here's how I know we have the need. Yeah. When I've been walking around the district knocking on doors, trying to introduce myself to voters, I'll knock on a door and you'll see a lady in her 70s who's caring for another lady in her 90s and also a child that's less than 10 years old. The generation that's missing from that at that time is at work. Yes. So we have the homeless that you're talking about that you see, and then there are what people are calling the hidden homeless, which are the people that are just crammed into their childhood homes, because the opportunity like we were talking about earlier to own a home, the financial opportunity is not there, and financial security doesn't exist for a lot of people. So on the issue of Kupuna care, I think we really have to take a look at it because we value aging in place. We value our close families, and it kind of works for us, but there's a lot of pressure on what's usually the one of the siblings that has to care for the parent or grandparent, and there are just not enough resources to make that possible. Yeah. This is a real challenge, because as you said, you'll have people, older people taking care of other older people. Maybe somebody else has dementia or early stages of Alzheimer's, or you'll have, and then also you'll have the children. But one of the things about Hawaii is that we have a lot of that sort of Asian culture where we have extended families, which is great. I think it's a wonderful thing, but on the other hand it does also create a lot of pressure on those that are still working and having to support everybody. Are we doing enough? That pressure is the stress of caring for a person that's difficult to care for. Decrease productivity because you can't work as much. So your finances are affected because you're not as productive and you can't work as much, and at some point the road starts to point to finding another place for our Kupuna to live. We had my mother-in-law living with us for years. She had Alzheimer's, early onset Alzheimer's, and she had the foresight to invest in long-term care. Very few people have that foresight. It was the best investment she had ever made, because without that I don't know how we would have made things work for her. She needed round-the-clock care at the end, and I think people that haven't thought about that during their cognizant lives. That's right. And long-term care is a really hard thing to sell. People are trying to sell somebody a funeral plan. I'll let somebody else take care of that. We're not always good about making sure that we're taking care of our own personal needs, and maybe there's a life lesson to be learned in that as well. But a lot of people, long-term care, if you wait too long it gets really expensive. It becomes impossible. Yeah, people can then can't afford to buy this kind of life insurance. You got to buy it when you don't need it. Yeah, and you never want to use it. Yeah. And so when you have a parent or grandparent that's elderly that needs to be cared for at home, you have maybe Medicare, which will help pay for a doctor visit or something like that, but you don't have the types of funding available as easily for things like transportation. Someone to come into the house and clean. Some respite care for the person who's doing the day-to-day work of caring for the kupuna. That's right. They need a break. You take care of somebody like that. That's an awful lot of stress. I can just imagine some of these folks, I can't believe they don't lose their minds with the amount of time and energy it takes for them to take care of somebody. Sure. And I think that we can provide support to them to help them effectively do their job and know when to take care of themselves so that they can continue to effectively care for. And the other thing I'd like to talk about that you brought up earlier about community, our kupuna feel isolated, I think, when they're stuck at home. And we need to make sure that the state is providing a way for them to connect with their community. I think that's the most important aspect of aging in place in a dignified way. You have to maintain your connection. Now, is there a way to incorporate, say, churches? One, churches have space. Two, they have a lot of people that are sort of volunteer minded. Is there a way to incorporate churches? Is there anything wrong with that? I mean, absolutely nothing wrong with that. Nothing wrong with that. Maybe we need to do more to encourage and provide opportunities for our churches to be a part of that solution. As well as, you know, I kind of like the idea of kids being able to go to daycare through the churches. I don't necessarily think that it's about indoctrination. They have facilities. They have people that are, you know, generally capable. It just seems like maybe we need to, you know, to exploit those resources. I think that they would welcome Akapuna into any programs that they could put on. Yeah, I think that that's, you know, wherever we can find resources. Sure. And it doesn't just have to be churches. There are other cultural clubs and other, you know, important cultural hubs that could be used to the same end. Yes. And I think that it would enrich the lives of our Akapuna immeasurably. I have to agree. I have to agree. So you're sort of, is this your first time to run for office? It is. Is it first time? So how are you finding this? This is a really interesting experience when you run for office for the first time. It's been a very meaningful experience so far because it's really been an invitation to myself to really look at who I am and what's driving me, where do these values come from? What is my life experience that's making me feel that I think I could do better? Because it's a big bite to step up and run for office. Yeah, it is. What's motivating you to get up every day and do this? I think just what we talked about before, which is making sure that my kids have a good Hawaii and have opportunities and we'll be able to retire here. We'll be able to raise families here. I mean, that's really it for me. And the other aspect of this run that's been really meaningful to me has been really thinking through how my values are played out and am I really living those values? My wife and I were having a discussion recently about slave labor. You don't think about it because you don't see it, but sometimes that inexpensive t-shirt that you bought at one of the big stores, it's inexpensive because they're able to pass along the savings that come from using slave labor to you. And you really have to think about these things in a way that you might not if you're not running for public office. You have to think about how your values play out in your life and whether or not you're really living your values. We can be blind to these things or we could really have an awakening. And for me, it's been a tremendous amount of personal growth because it's helped me think these things through. Well, I always want to encourage people when they see somebody like you running for office. To step up and come to the ballot box, vote either through the mail or vote and show up on Election Day and vote. I think a lot of people don't necessarily who don't vote don't really appreciate the amount of sacrifice that a candidate makes and what they're really giving up when they run for office and that you're trying to realize your values and the values of your community and I think it's such a huge sacrifice that it feels to me it's a bit of a disservice when people don't step up and vote. So I really like to see that. Yeah, I think we have a duty to operate this democracy. We need to teach our kids in school how they get involved in our democracy. They need to understand in a way that I think past generations have the responsibility to vote. And sometimes I'll be knocking on doors in the district and people will just be so frustrated and they'll say, I don't vote. And you say, well, no, I understand your frustration but I think this is the first step in trying to change things. No, I won't do it. Not interested in voting. And it's kind of heartbreaking. Yeah, it's tough because you know what I say is voting is how you get rid of people or fire somebody who isn't serving your interests. Right. You know, so when you exercise your vote, yes, you're saying I'm for this person but when you say, when you vote in opposition to somebody you're saying, you know, you haven't lived up to the expectations of the trust that we've given you and what I feel are the needs of my community. So I think voting is really an imperative. And Hawaii of course has had some of the lowest voter turnout in the nation. So I sort of talk about this because it's really important that we participate in democracy. You know, you went to law school, which took quite a sacrifice as well. I'm still paying for it. Yeah, you're still paying for it. Everyone. The student loans just sort of go on forever. It's been 18 years and I'm still paying them. You're still paying the student loans so much. And it's so much more expensive now than it was when I went. Yeah. I mean, I think it would probably cost twice as much and I can't imagine the debt load that people that are graduating from law school now have. And then to have to work in Honolulu. And I don't know. It's easier to go someplace else and have a high paycheck. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, you know, maybe one of the things that we also need to consider is not only, you know, just the short term, but we also have to think strategically. If we're going to grow Hawaii in a way that provides well-paying jobs far into the future, I think we have to have a strategic plan for growth and for breaking jobs to Hawaii. And, you know, are we having that discussion at the legislature these days? I think we're not capitalizing enough on our university system. I don't think that we're creating opportunities through our university, which could be sort of a bridge to a career in Hawaii. I mean, if we could figure out how, I mean, internships, not limited to that, but... And apprenticeships. Apprenticeships, yeah, I mean, you don't have to be in college to learn something on the job through an apprenticeship. And so, yeah, if we could figure out ways to build bridges among trade schools and the university or the community colleges to actual jobs, I think that would go a long way to helping our economic situation. Okay, well, I think you're on the right track. So I really want to appreciate, say how much I appreciate you coming on the show today. Anyway, if people wanted to support your candidacy, how could they reach out to you? What's the best way for them to contact? Probably the best thing to do is to go to friendsofpatrickshay.com. You can look on Facebook, Patrick K. Shea, or I guess it's Friends of Patrick K. Shea. But anyway, Patrick K... Friends, so sorry, friendsofpatrickshay.com. Friendsofpatrickshay.com. And that's how they'll find you. Okay, well, it's very good to have you on the show. Good luck with your candidacy. And I hope we'll see you out there. Thank you. It's good to be here. Thank you very much for being on the show. Hi, I'm Chris Lethem. Thank you for watching today's show, and we'll see you next week, Wednesday, three o'clock, right here on Think Tech Hawaii. Aloha.