 Welcome back. Remember that the Nigerian delegation to the COP28 is 1,411. Some figures are saying 1,141 and all that, but it's 1,411 people. Out of that, over 800 are government delegation and some others from CSOs, from NGOs, from the media. That's what we've been told, but we have over 1,000 delegates to the COP28 holding in Dubai. That number is also the same number that China is sending. Remember that China's population is seven times the population of Nigeria. In fact, if you divide their number with the 200 million that we are seeing that Nigeria has, that means they have like 7.06 times our population. So right now, the presidential candidate of the Labour Party in the last presidential election, Peter Obi, has faltered the number of Nigerian delegates at the COP28, citing waste of resources. Right now, we're being joined by the National Spokesperson Coalition of United Political Parties, that is Comrade Mark Adebayo. Good morning and welcome to the program. Thank you so much for having me. Good morning, viewers. Well, there's divergent opinions to the delegation that Nigeria sends to the COP28. While some people are criticizing that number, that is too much. There's a waste because there's nothing really that a lot of people like that will go and say at COP28 that one person or 10 people or even 20 people cannot say. And from the presidency, we have been told given many reasons why the delegation is important that it be taken to that place. But let's hear what your thoughts are. 1,411 people representing Nigeria under whatever auspices at the COP28. What are your thoughts? Well, you see, I think there is this tonic culture of waste in the blood of Nigerians, especially at the level of leadership, that they have no shame in wasting scarce resources. They tell us to touch on our beds, but at the same time, they are losing their ass. There is nothing 1,400 or 1,000 people or 1,014, whatever figure they are banding about is over 1,000 people. That's 25 people cannot confidently do. I'm talking of maybe you have five government officials, then five, you know, assistant, maybe experts. You can help them to understand what this COP28 is all about. Carbon dioxide emission for the whole of Africa is a part three, four percent. From Nigeria, it's 0.39 percent. So if China is going there with 3,000 delegation, it is not understandable because China is the most guilty of carbon dioxide emission throughout the world. United Kingdom, Britain that colonizes us is going there with just 75 people. So that's the country that is a million times richer than us, better organized than us, well taken care of, citizens better taken care of than us, a million times over. Now they are going there with 75 people. In what areas is Nigeria so much grossed in this COP28 that you have to take over 1,500 people to Dubai. I was in Dubai, I knew how much it costs for hotel per night, per night. The meal, per plate, and all that is there. The visa, the tickets, they will get extra quote, 1,000. In the country, in an economy that is so oppressed, that is so oppressed, an economy that is extremely under extreme tension. We are property level, according to the Nigerian Bureau of Statistics, over 1.30 million Nigerians are multidimensionally poor. And then you carry your really jamboree, carrying 1,500 people to Dubai. But to what extent for what? I mean to UAE. To what extent? It is just that we have not been lucky to have empathetic leaders. We have not been lucky in this country to have leaders that really feel the pain of the people, that really understand the yanis of the people, that really understand the vision and the ambition and aspiration of Nigeria to live a good, better life like other nations. But people who rather, I mean if you look at it, 180% of these people who have gone there, will probably go to the political hangar zone. In the name of NGOs, media and the rest of that. What media? What media? I mean you don't need more than 3, 4, 5 journalists to go there to cover for you. If you want to just pick people from the state house press call to follow you there, 25 people maximum, 5 from government, 5 experts that will help them to understand what they are going to do. Probably maybe one or two people from the NGO are then the media. They are the maximum 25 to 30 people. Enough for a country that we know has been profliged by its leaders over the years, over the decades that have been profliged, that people have been profliged. You now carry 1,000 people to UAE to do what they understand. How does that improve our medical situation? How does that improve our infrastructure? How does that even improve our economy? In what areas? In a country that is industrially backward. The people that they want in UAE are advanced countries that are industrially advanced, that are economically stable, that have good leadership, that understand the principles of governance and democracy and how to administer people in a way that will generally and collectively benefit people, not roads, not political roads in the name of political leaders who impact more people to UAE for COP28 when you are contributing less than 0.1% even to the industrial development of Nigeria, of the world. So what are you going to do there? If you actually want to reflect essentially on the current state of our economy and backwardness, what do you need to do? It suffices to just send the Nigerian UAE ambassador to that summit. The pressure doesn't need to go. No government needs to go. No minister needs to go there. Probably we can send the minister of science and technology if we have one to go there. Not that we carry, we are going to do jamboree. We have this economic culture of waste in this country. Even among the regular Nigerians, you see how much we waste? You want to do barrier, somebody that is dead, you kill one of the cows, you go and buy a share of beef. We have this economic culture of waste and that is what the mentality that these political cliques carry into government and then they begin to loot the treasury of Nigeria. What is supposed to be used for development? What is supposed to be used for progress? What is supposed to be used for our health and our education? Now, how many parents can afford to pay the tuition of their children now? I have a couple of them in the IAEA institution and I know what I cover out or every session, every month, I'm taking care of these children. I have a government that doesn't have subsidy for education, no subsidy for health, no subsidy for anything in this country. And then you carry, we will be in the forefront of demanding to know if it costs Nigeria to send those people to UAE in the coming days. They claim that they did not pay for everyone. So some delegates funded themselves. Okay, we want to see the breakdown. Let's see the breakdown. Let's see who paid for who and who didn't pay for who paid for themselves. We need to see. We can't take the award for it. We need to see. And even at that, it is still a waste. It is still unnecessary. It is still reprehensible. I said UK sent 75 people, 75 people to COP28. It's an industrially advanced country. America sent 159, less than 200 people. So what do Nigeria want to achieve beyond those countries? That's, you have to carry 1000. Half of the whole delegation of China is 73,000. It is understandable. It is responsible for over 38% of the capital-side emissions in the world. It is the major culprit in this business. So it can as well take 1 million out of its 1% billion people there. So what about Nigeria? What have we contributed into technology, into industry, into whatever that is good and positive in the development of the world? What have we contributed? We only have oil. We are like a spoiled child who has inherited from his grandfather and wasting the heritage because we have oil that can draw from the ground. That is what we do. So we need leaders who can think both outside the box and even without the box. But we don't have that yet. We have never had it in this country. Not even among those who are probably themselves as if they are better than the people that are there now. We have just been unlucky to have people that I assume that are ferociously implacable in terms of ludocracy. And it gets me angry. Look, the woman, who wants to go and buy pepper this morning? Who wants to go and buy curry? Who wants to go and buy rice? Who wants to go and buy something to feed her children this morning? But cannot afford it. You cannot explain to her why you are taking 1,500 people. I mean, I don't know what you're doing now. You'll be hearing that we have 20 billion on that. And to what extent? To what benefit? What are we going there to say that America, China, India, Canada cannot... Canada is sending less than... It's also sending less than 200 people, I believe, you know. And then Nigeria is going there with 1,500. Maybe they are paying for themselves. But I'm good. But how many people is our government paying for? What are these people going to do that America that is going there with 1,500 people cannot achieve far better than us? What state do we even have? We are not among the industrial nations. We are not. We are deceiving ourselves. These guys people are angry. You need to tell your camera to the streets and listen to what Nigerians are saying about this. I don't want to use that word. I want to use shenanigans. You know? Yeah. You are saying there is no subsidy in a lot of areas, health and all that. I was just asking you whether you don't have fit in the government. They say there is a student loan. Don't you have fit in that? Is that not some kind of subsidy that we are having? Yeah. It's an enslavement policy. What are the conditions now? What are the conditions before you collect the loan? And after collecting it, what are the conditions? It's just like, you know, it's like when you are talking about an American student loan, which is even a little better than ours, you know, because you are led, more or less, into an infallown tree in debtedness that's going to owe your neck for the next 10, 15 years to graduation, to pay off. So it's not, how many people, since they have announced the policy, how many students have come out to say that they are beneficiary of the policy already? You know, it's more or less like officialistic things. I do not, until they start implementing it, for those who want to, I just want to appeal to parents and the students alike to read that document very well and study the conditions before they go and we fully enter themselves into something they may not be able to take care of later. It's very important. That one, let's move the publicity and propaganda from this business. We are talking about the real impact on the people, direct impact on the people. Okay. Let me, let me, let me, let me. Direct impact on the people. That is our argument. Let me quote Temitope Ajayi, a presidential aide on the excuse why the number is that much. He said, and I quote, multi-faceted stakeholders from different countries, including Nigeria, are on ground in Dubai because they don't want decisions that will affect them to be taken without pushing their own agenda. It is the reason delegates from China and Brazil are over 3,000 respectively. China is one of the world's biggest polluters and Brazil is at the center of global climate debate with her Amazon forest. These two countries know important decisions that will affect them will be taken and they have to move everything to be fully on ground and ensure they are fully represented by their best brains at every level of discussion and negotiation. So that possibly is the reason Nigeria is floating 1,411 people. What do you think about his argument that you need a lot of people to be on ground the best brain in the country to go and argue out at every turn in this COP28? Well, if that is if that would be the case, I doubt that UK will go to UAE with 75 people only. I keep saying look if only we want to increase the number maximum of 50 people will have been looking for us will have been looking for us and 80% to 85% of these 50 people should be experts in the field not political jobbers not political hangers hangers on or whatever that they will go there and be doing what? A lot of people I can bet you a lot of people on that delegation are not going to have any rooms to play. They will just go there maybe do some sightseeing and rest of that. We want to see an audit an audit not only of the funding not only of the finances an audit of the activities and performances and assignments and engagement of probably everybody or organization represented in that COP28. That is when we probably the Nigerian public will be appeased that ok it was worth it even if it was worth it it was about protecting our interests protecting our environment and rest of that and we don't have to leave the initiative to the industrial giants and rest of that ok well and good but we need to see an audit of what everybody among these people has gone to do there we need an audit of their assignments an audit of their engagements we need a full report and you know we are going to trust the NGOs more than any government agency anyways this explanation may be possible but we need to see we need a report we need a retirement we need the funding and the activities and the engagements of this to be retired to Nigeria to say ok the 1000 people we took there this is what this one has done this is what this one has done within the explanations within the explanations if America India Canada United Kingdom and even Australia I'm going there with far less number of delegates that you know could push any argument from anybody that oh we need to move half of the publishing of Nigeria to you and me it's it's it's untenable it's untenable except we are giving a clear explanation exposition of what really transpires in the UAE this is this is not good you know we are we are not even yet out of the scandal of the yacht that a 5 billion or so was released to go and buy yachts they said presidential yachts and they said it's for navy I don't see I've not seen we know of gun books but the yacht to be to be presidential yachts to be given to the navy to go and fight back to which who are they deceiving yes is what the president had said when you take it at face value you think it's reasonable but it's untenable on the basis of empirical evidence of a bad economy of bad infrastructure and also good leadership in the country at present it's totally untenable and Nigerians are very sensitive when anything affects their economic realities because everybody knows that presently the economy is not doing well we are hoping that the promises of government that will get better after the removal the sodding and you know unprepared removal of first of the that things the pain of today will be the joy for tomorrow we can only hope and pray that tomorrow that the joy will come cannot even come fast enough you need to go outside there and see what is happening people you see as individuals the kind of pressure you are under from friends from family from neighbors from acquaintances total complete strangers who are begging for help every corner everywhere you talk it's as bad as that but we don't have we don't have leaders actually we don't have any but we don't have rulers also who who have the feelings of the real who are connect that's a total disconnect between the people and those who are ruling us they say there's a wide airorus there's a wide airorus of understanding that's total these guys don't know what we are passing through they are ruling us they are ruling over us but they they really don't connect with the people there's a total disconnect we have to know that and it didn't start yesterday it didn't start today it started from immediate post independence we have not been able to have a sterling quality leader from post-independence to date you know you know The first elites that took over from the colonialists have handed over to political cliques. People keep saying political class. We don't have political class in Nigeria. We only have political cliques who terrorize the people, who oppress the people, who exploit the people and loot the sexually. From top to bottom, that should ring a bell. Top to bottom should ring a bell. One of the presidents of Nigeria said so. From top to bottom, from the federa to the local government, this is the same thing. Show me one governor. Let's forget the president. Show me one governor that has been able to connect with the people. So that is the issue. People who are ruling over us worse than colonialists did. That is the problem. The day you have somebody who is empathetic to Nigerians, you are not going to have a president who is going to use four billion to renovate where you will be staying. Who is going to release three billion to renovate where the first president will be staying and who will release another four billion to go and refurbish the depredated empanads in Lagos. You are not going to have any president who is going to release five billion. What is that? For the presence of Yacht. Yacht is for luxury. It's for enjoyment. It's not for fighting battle. When we cried out, they said no, it's for the Navy. You said presidential yacht, that's what we saw. That's what is the budget. That's what is the proposal. So don't turn it to say it belongs to the Navy. You need to see how these people need as if... That is why we keep blaming the international financial agencies for continuing to borrow money to give Nigeria, to loan money to Nigeria because the way the ostentatious lifestyle of our leaders and the ostentatious lifestyle of Nigeria as if we are abroad. You need to see the way we behave as if we are the richest in the world. We are the most among the most backward. People are paying dollars as if it's going out of fashion. So people see us as if we are rich. We are just pretending because the kind of people that are governing in this country they behave as if they are immigrants. They are not part of us. And they are part of us. They are Nigerians. But they do not feel our pain. They are not empathetic to our situation. They are not sympathetic to the causes of Nigeria. They are not sympathetic to the progress of Nigeria. And that is the problem. But people come and tell you, they do that. But they come into government. All they do is just about themselves. About themselves. And that is what late respected professor Shinro Ashibi called self-centered petitionism. And in his book, The Trouble with Nigeria, which he wrote about 30, 40 years ago. We need to feel the leadership issue in Nigeria. Once you feel leadership, you have fixed everything. We need to feel leadership. We need a Thomas Ankara in this country. We need a Thomas Ankara. We need a Nelson Mandela. The beautiful ones are not yet born. And if they are born, they are far away from the sign of power and democracy and political activism that will take us to the promised land. Not if all these pretenders will behave as if they are angels. We know they are antecedents. They are real antecedents. We are talking about real people, real revolutionaries. Who is coming? I said, look, I have come to fix Nigeria. And if we go ahead and begin to fix Nigeria, I would refuse, I would refuse to waste our commonwealth on five qualities, as we have seen today. If anybody told you that Nigeria is also 3 million of Naira, in local international debt. And if you see the comfort of our governments, of our presidents, of our ministers, of even their aides, you will win for this country. Let's not get about political correctness. This is not about political correctness. It's about the people in the streets. The regular Nigerians that are suffering, that are oppressed and tormented. Then by bad governments. Okay, so you earlier asked for reports, like you want to see, we should all see a report of how the spendings went in the UAE. However, my question is, do you think the government will bring a report? And even if they do, what's the way for, what are we going to do about that? Is there any action that could be taken or is it just going to be water on that bridge? Don't forget, I didn't say just about the funding alone. I also said about the activities, what these people, what they have done individually. We want to see a report of what they have done. All these people, you know. Well, you see, for whatever it is worth, we need a report, we need a retirement. We need to hold on to something. Even for the sake of analysis and future references, we need that document, we need it. They have gone for a summit. After every summit, everybody, every participant, I'm involved in the NGO World 2. I know that you need to submit, there must be a report. Within 72 hours of your summit, of a conference, of a workshop, there must be a report, a comprehensive report. Within that report, it will include the financial report. It will also include the report of the activities of each person or organization or group that is participating in that COP 28. It's very important for us because we need to keep records as to know how to now engage this type of thing in future. You know, it has always been our culture. In Nigeria, we send 25 players, first team and reserve, to the World Cup or to the Commonwealth, this in the hall, to the Olympics, 25 players who will be on the field. Four coaches making 29. But we are going to send 200 government or 300 government officials to follow 29 people. To do what? To do what? It has been our culture of waste that this government has now decided to continue with. That is why we are advising them. If I were to meet President Nubu today, I would advise him sir, you have one lifetime opportunity to write your name in the Golden Book of History as a leader who is transformational and not transnational. Don't waste it. Don't lose that opportunity. You have that opportunity now because he must know the controversies and who are heard as harassing, especially his election, and must do everything to right the wrongs. To say, look, what people are talking about to me is not right. What they are saying about me, this is who I am. And the only way you can prove that is to cut waste, is to govern where? Governing where means improving the economy, improving the lot of Nigerians. You have taken away subsidy from where? If I were here, I would introduce direct subsidy on education. In the University, I would say no students should pay more than $50,000. I paid 500 Naira tuition, Paranom. I took back my wallet at university level. 500 Naira. Four years, 2,000 Naira. Room or best place, 19 Naira. You know, if I have a present today, I pay, the list I pay for my, for any of my students, I say the list. I'm talking about tuition, I'm talking about, without rent, without feeding allowance, without closing allowance, I will help you if you have, if some of your children are female. You know, you use, times five of the public time stand to train a female, a girl child, to a male child. You have to take care of so many other things. You understand? So, how you need to pay, the list I pay now, the list is 170,000 Naira tuition. Not, probably 200,000 Naira for, for accommodation, and a whole lot of department office, parco TV, this and that, all manner of things. Daddy, I want to do my hair, daddy, I want to, all manner of things. If I see a present today, I say, the flat rate, any public school in Nigeria, any public university in Nigeria, 50,000 Naira flat. Even there, I don't have some presents who will show, who will show to pay that. But it will, no, it will down the tension. Especially in this part of the world, in the south, in the south, they are hungry to educate their children. So, if you put subsidy on education, and health for all Nigerians, oh, wow, nobody will remember any other five rules or mistakes or errors you have committed in the past. Because that is where it pinches most. We need, but do we have such empathetic leader now? Do you have such sympathetic leader now? Okay. We are calling on President, to please, President Ahmed, Bolatino Guuto, please, be that empathetic leader. Be that empathetic leader. Be that progressive leader. Be that visionary leader. That knows that it is when the people are pleased with your government, that you can rule, you can govern in peace. Yeah. Okay, comrade Mark, this is where we'll have to draw the curtain on this segment of the program. We'd like to thank you so much for coming and bearing your mind on the situation. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. Thank you. We've been talking with comrade Mark at the National Spokesperson Coalition of United Political Parties, CUPP. We were talking about the delegation to the COP 28 from Nigeria, 1,411 people. It just reminded me of the delegation that was sent to China that I was talking about the other day from across the state, commissioners, local government, chairmen to go and, not palm trees even. Bambos. Bambos, yeah. Bambos to go and study Bambos. And as we speak now, we don't have enough Bambos in across the state. Anyway, we'll take a short break and when we return, we'll be looking at the second hard topic. Stay with us.