 Welcome to the Monday, November the 6th meeting of the design review committee of my failure. I will let members and staff introduce themselves. Martha Smersky. You can really only hear Martha about Eric. You want to go next? Eric Gilbertson, vice chair. Benjamin Cheney, member? Meredith Crandall, staff. Steve Everett, member? That's it. No Liz today. Okay. At this point, we'll let Meredith review the remote meeting procedures and process. Okay, so I'm going to share my screen. The share screen is really more for anybody who's watching this over or come media. But there will be information important for everybody who is attending remotely. Can everybody see that? Okay, so for those of you viewing tonight's design review committee meeting via Orca media, you can participate in tonight's discussion via the Zoom platform through either video or telephone access options. So if you want an ID, and again, I'll see you in the waiting room and let you into the meeting ID. And again, I'll see you in the waiting room and let you into the meeting so that you can ask questions and get a little more information on what's going on. If you have problems accessing the meeting, please email me at mcrandallatmotpillier-vt.org. Then I will be monitoring my email throughout tonight's meeting. For those attending via Zoom, turning your video on is optional. For everyone attending, if you generally, if you wish to speak, please raise your hand. And if you have the see an unmute button, once you're called on, you can press that. If not, then when the chair calls on you, I will unmute you if you don't have that unmute button. Please note that the Zoom chat function should only be used for troubleshooting or logistics questions. If you have a question or comment about an item on the agenda, please raise your hand. So far tonight, all we have are applicants or those on the applicants team to discuss projects. And we don't have any members of the public, but we may have some come in. I'll keep an eye on that. Please note that if people can't get access to the meeting and I'd get notification of that via email, the meeting will need to be continued to a time, place, and certain. All right. Now hand the meeting back over to the chair. At this point, do I hear a motion from the members to approve the agenda? This is Martha. I'll move to approve the agenda. Second. Eric. All in favor of the agenda, speak your names. Eric. Martha. Steve. Ben's still there. Ben. Ben, you need an email. Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes when I hit the space bar on mute, sometimes it doesn't. Sorry. Okay. So you're yes. Yes. Okay. Sorry. The agenda is approved. We can move forward to the first applicant for 56 college street. Lake Point property management, applicant, deep analytics, Morgan Glines. Who's there to speak for this project? That's me. I'm Morgan Blines. I do the branding and all of the marketing for deep analytics. Okay. And describe your new sign for us. So hopefully you guys got the, the renders with the permit packet. We're replacing a sign from an old tenant. It's the same size. It's like roughly one by seven. It's, it's a weird size. I had it measured in the packet. The sign that was up was like a printed melamine, which doesn't really reflect what we do very well because we deal with like technology and machine learning. And so we're trying to do something a little bit more industrial. So it's like blackened wood with laser cut galvanized steel on top with exposed bolts. Let me know if you want me to share the application on the screen. Would you please just in case anyone missed it? Yeah, they should have gotten it. So here's, here's the view from the street. There's the entrance where it's going to go overhead. So it's set back quite a ways. And then there's a view of it sort of in place. By the way, what's the symbolism of your mascot on the sign? It's an angler fish. And so the company owner liked the way they, they live super deep down and they illuminate. Okay. That was just out of curiosity. No problem. Are you proposing to remove the existing standing sign? The standing sign? I don't know what you're talking about. Okay. There, there is a sign up on the corner there in a lot. Has that been removed? Meredith? No. No, that's a, that's a ground mounted sign that's more for the, the parcel as a whole. And so this is just a, they can do ground mounted signs and wall signs. They can do both. And so the ground mountain sign, I think reflects other tenants in the building because deep in the lettuce isn't a whole building. Okay. So that would stay there. Thank you. Yep. Any other comments, questions or suggestions from members? If not, I can go through the criteria for signs in the design control overlay district. The size, location, design, color, texture, lighting and material of all exterior signs within the design review district shall be compatible with the buildings and structures of the site and surrounding properties acceptable. Where appropriate, signing shall respect the original sign placement and signed bands on historic structures acceptable. If a building has multiple tenants, there shall be consistency and placement and size among all signs acceptable. It is recommended that sign placement be centered over building entries and this one is sign installation shall minimize damage to character defining materials on the building acceptable. Sign design color and typography shall respect historic precedence where appropriate and shall be of the appropriate scale for existing and new buildings acceptable. Sign support structures shall be compatible with the building architecture. In this case, it's a it's mounted directly on the building all in favor of the application for the sign speaker names. Eric. This is Martha. I say yes. Steve says yes. Ben, did you speak? Your microphone is not picking up then even though you're unmuted. He's yes thumbs up. He's a yes. Okay, thank you. I saw I saw him mouth yes when it went the first time though. I'm learning to lip read. Okay, thanks. So the application is approved for to zero in favor. Thank you for coming and good luck with your project. Thank you very much for your help. Morgan, do you want us to mail the permit out to you or do you want to come pick it up? I can come pick it up. If that's easiest. Okay. We'll we'll email you when it's ready. We're now in the police department community room. So you'll need to get buzzed into the main building and then we're right on your right once you come in. And so yet generally between eight and four thirty we're here but I'll we'll email you when it's all ready for you to pick up. Okay. That sounds perfect. Thank you so much everyone. Thank you. You're welcome. Sorry it took so long with everything crazy in between. Okay, we can move forward to the next applicant for one school street applicant put in air the exterior changes associated with the change of use to dwelling units. Is someone there to represent the application? Got a couple different people. There you go Tim. Yeah. Hey Steve it's Tim air here and I have John Ray Hill from Black River Design with us as well. Okay. Go ahead and describe your application for one school street. So we're the current use had been a convenience store slash deli. It's been vacant for you know a little over a year and we are looking to put in two apartments to two bedroom apartments into the first floor and so we wanted to bring the exterior you know kind of back to you know the historic look for the building. I believe we included you know John put some renderings together but that look like in doing so we're going to there's some high ceilings there Steve we're going to increase the floor 18 inches to two feet to try to get above the flood level you know from that standpoint so that in doing that it's going to require us to redesign the outdoor steps into one of the units. Okay. Which is my rendering from that place. Yep. Let me share my screen on it. So here's the Elm Street view of one school street. So this entrance that the is a little further on there's some renderings of modifying this these steps and then this is a view that Tim got first of the existing facade mostly off of the school street side and then this is the historic photo. And then here is what they're talking about changing the school street side to Tim if you want to describe this and then we'll go on to the entrance on the other side the other details. If you could unmute John I'm going to let him articulate that please. Yeah John should be able to unmute himself but I'll make sure there we go. Try that. Is that work? Yes. Yeah we can hear you. We are excited about the owner's interest in taking off some of the elements that were added. I'm not sure when and it's certainly raising the floor 18 to 24 inches create some challenges but I think we can get very close to what the building used to look like and still accommodate the needs of privacy and entrances and whatnot really in the same way that they did in the olden days. There's their doors in and out and there's and there's some horizontal divisions within the pilasters but we're going to emphasize the pilasters and deemphasize what's within them and I think it's it's going to be a lot more attractive building when we're done when when we raise the building we've got a problem of either having a landing inside the building which takes up quite a lot of room or I think there's maybe an additional image shows. There's a space between the building and the city sidewalk. Not well that while we're on that one I think it's worth showing that the Cornish details are that are shown on the right hand entrance of the building are the ones that we're going to duplicate and so we've got a good record to copy. Not that one not that one not that one. The one that shows the steps there it is so luckily there's a space between the building and the city sidewalk and so we can create a landing which is a little higher and still stay within that and get people down off the raised floor. The Tim said there was one entrance we have to add a few steps to the entrance on the school street corner as well but it's also within that distance between the building and the sidewalk very similar to this. John this is Eric Gilbertson are you going to not provide handicapped access to the apartments. Correct and I'm curious is how you're going to treat the large windows in regard to the apartments. If you go back to that first draw there we go. I did a little sketch up there in the left hand corner and I think the key to this is going to be to keep the whole interior between the pilaster is a dark color. Our plan is to have windows that are suitable for a bedroom or a living room which affords some privacy and still maintain that the emphasis on the pilasters. So much as they done in the past when they got doorways and if you look closely at the old photograph there's some horizontals within them but our intent was to really emphasize the pilasters by keeping all those variations between window and then a black painted panel a dark color. So that's what's represented on this photograph here with the lines in it. Up in the left hand corner I did a little diagram to show kind of our approach. Yeah I saw that and it's not a very good drawing in the sense of letting you know what it's going to look like but if we make all those elements black I think it'll be very successful. Okay and that particular inset goes into each of these areas here. We're going to duplicate the old pilaster rhythm when the behind the pilasters which the decorative parts been removed are structural elements which we can build onto once we take the brick off. Okay I think I understand. We're going to have to raise the bottom up a little bit because there at least you know the floor inside is going to be 18 inches higher so that's again going to be part of a opaque panel. So it'll fool you from the outside. That's our that's our intent is to really maintain the achieve the original character without making the apartments into fish bowls. The windows to the apartment is operable. I think so yeah we didn't talk about that but Tim we can make those operable. That makes sense to do that without kind of destroying the look of you know the star front look. Well I think it all has to do with the the color you paint it there's an existing commercial door in the school street side and that you can see yeah that's a good picture you can see that that you can see how well that disappears. You really know not that one the other one. That one goes upstairs and you can see how effective that is in really receding visually and as opposed to the one that's painted white. So that's our that that's a great image to show how effective the color change is going to be and I would say it doesn't really you know a fixed window versus an operable these days they're really the same window. They're not fat or just insoperable. Meredith is this we're being asked to actually vote on this. Um so you have some options right and then Tim and I discussed Tim and I discussed this so if possible you're being asked to vote on it if you're not comfortable voting on certain parts of it it'd be really good to parse those out and I think Tim had said that he'd be willing to come back especially for this part in a different applications. But the you know the the entrance on the Elm Street side there's also a railing that's going railings going in here on the River Street side that are more safety oriented issues because they have to sort of raise up a platform here to because of the floor being raised inside and then Tim the and then this this sort of view for the new utility space although we had some discussions about it not being clear about how it was being attached to the building so whatever parts of this you feel like you can approve today if you can we would it would be great to get those approved if there's any of it that you can because Tim said he he could come back with basically a separate application if need be for other parts but I think it's going to kind of depend on what what you guys are comfortable approving and what you aren't. Does that a good summary Tim? Yes. Yep. Let's talk about the Elm Street entrance and how you're going to treat that. I'll take us here we go. There's a sketch that shows the raised landing 18 inches or so and obviously the door has to be raised. You can see there's a horizontal million over that door that have to be raised. But we'll try to keep that rhythm and the pilasters be the emphasis. I applaud much of what you're trying to do here and think that in general at all is makes a ton of sense. I feel concerned that there isn't enough information in any of these sketches to really know what you're talking about for us to make a decision that feels anything that like would be fair to any other applicants that we've ever had come or those after us to say, well, we sort of know what they're doing here. We have some gestures, but I don't, you know, feel like we really have any detailed information here. Eric feels the same way as Ben that the details are important and how this is executed. I think it's great that you're going back to the kind of the opening and rhythm of the openings on this on the school street side. But I and I'm not so concerned about the home street side because I think that's okay. But I'm concerned about the details of how the windows are going to be divided. What kind of windows are going to go in there? What's going to be a double-hung? Whatever, because I how that ends up looking, I think it's going to be very critical as to how successful it is. Happy to develop these further and get into that level of detail for you in the process of doing that also on the on street side. If you could have a representation of showing what it looks like to raise the door is there if you raise it, I'm not sure how far you're raising it. If you raise it, the door 18 inches that pretty well eliminates that glass area above the door. Or is there something left there? Good question. That is you're quite right that we have not got to that level of detail and we appreciate your general reaction, which is certainly allows to dive into more detail and get all those dimensions and accurate drawings to you. That would be really helpful on on that side to see what it would actually look like. Once you raise everything 18 inches, obviously you have to put new glass and reframe that as well as the doors and then on the school street side, it would be helpful to see what you're representing for for operable windows, what options there are and actually show that in detail as opposed to just the diagonal lines that are on the on the rep on the current representation. Okay, so if you wouldn't mind coming back with more detail so we could see exactly what that's going to look like that would be really helpful. The other I think that's fine with me. If that's fine with you, Tim, the other elements which we included in the submission are the changes to the Riverside and as Meredith mentioned, the proposal to add a mechanical room, take it out of the basement and put it between the two buildings. I don't know whether you want to talk further about that. Now, would you retain the existing stairs or would you just raise a platform and raise everything up? What are you referring to? The back door. Well, between the buildings, the space between the two buildings on Elm Street. You're showing some new room between the buildings. So I'm assuming you're building a deck above the flood level based on the notes on your representation. Yes, and that representation you can see is going to have some doors in front of it so that it wouldn't be visible from the street. But to answer your question, yes, there's just some crude granite steps that go down right now. The fire escape was removed, so there would be new steps that go up to the mechanical room. The mechanical room would be attached to the school street property and not serving the 41 Elm Street. Okay. Did you see that drawing that was part of that package that shows that there we go. That's existing. Yes, and also could you show a little more detail of what the doors are going to be as well and show the elevation? I mean, will you open the doors and go up steps to the platform? What it shows now is that the doors go down almost to the sidewalk. Is this mechanical room heated, dried in, or is it just I'm just going to assume that everybody's looking at stuff. Say that again, Meredith. Can't hear you, Ben. Don't know what's up with your microphone. Now you're muted. Here we go. Unmuted, but maybe your microphone is chunky. Is that okay? Is that better? Do you want to type it? I mean, normally you don't use chat, but if you want to type it in chat, I could probably read it. Or if you want to try and call in on your phone separately for the audio. Not working. Sorry, Ben. I don't know what's up with your system. Oh, is it me? John, do you want to log in and then try and come back in? Wait, Eric, you can hear me? I can hear you too, Ben. Maybe you have a weird microphone setting. I can hear you too, Ben. Well, is it me you can't hear or? No. Mary, you can't hear me. Oh, that's weird. Now I saw Tim talking, but there was no noise. All right. Hold on. I can hear everybody. I'm going to stop sharing for a minute, guys, because I want to check something on my, oh, wait, here we go. Nope. I have it so that you can unmute yourselves. So that's not it. Steve, can you talk? Yes. If can you hear me? And I'm showing unmuted on my end. Martha, can you hear me? Yes, I can hear you and I can hear Ben. I can't hear you. Okay. This is screwy. Hold on. My apologies. All right. John is back in. So, yeah, I have no idea what anybody else said for discussion. I don't know if work or cottage or not as to what everybody wants to do with this application at this point, but there's any parts that you guys feel like you can approve tonight, or if you really want everything back with specification sheets and where detail. I would prefer to have it. Oh, I don't need to do that. I think I think we need everything back and one suggestion I would make is the doors on Elm Street for the utility room be set back from the side of the building. Yes, that's going to be that will be set back. We'll have a dimension for you. Oh, good. Yeah, not only the setback, but you know, what is what is it going to look like? You're not going to see it. Well, you won't see it. But I mean, what are the doors going to be? Are they just flush doors or they paneled or are they? Well, yes, we'll give you some detail on those doors that face the street that are sort of gates. Okay. And do you want to hear anything about the approach on the Riverside? This is an introduction. It's been helpful to get your reaction to our approach. Okay, I'd rather see that later. I had a great deal of trouble trying to understand what it was you were proposing. Okay. In general, I'll say I'm very excited to see all those weird wooden shingles go away and I'm very excited to see the weird bricks below go away and I really in general feel like I'm enthusiastic that you have intentions of really taking what I think is a beautiful building and making it addressing some of the issues that it currently has. And so, but I do strongly feel that we need more clarity to be able to make these decisions and know what we're deciding. Well, Erin, I'll second what Ben said. I agree. That sounds like a good idea to come back with just some more details so that we can know what we're approving. Do we need an official motion to table? Okay. Let's make a motion. Do I hear a motion to table? I just did that. Okay. Do I hear a second? This is Martha. I second it. All in favor of tabling until the next meeting or whenever they choose to come back, speak your names. Martha. Ben. Steve. So, thank you for coming back with a little more detail so we have a much better idea of what it is we're approving and we appreciate all the effort you're making to restore this building to a useful project. Meredith, when is the next meeting? Whoever 20, I think. 14 plus six is 20. When would we have to have material in your hands? Tim, I don't think she can hear you. I think she's upset. Jesus, Meredith is muted. I'll talk to Meredith in the morning. We certainly will come back and hopefully be the 20th to continue to move the project along and thank you for everyone's time tonight. Thank you for coming. I'm sorry for any delay. I know you're anxious to get this going. Yeah, especially the in between the buildings, you know, with winter coming, but we'll we'll get you some more specifications and what the doors will look like. Okay, and are you going to have to move some of the panels and electrical work up? Yeah, it is now. We will. Yes. The you can actually you can actually do that now because that's just part of the flood zone requirements. If you're replacing damaged equipment. Yeah, we were going to put it in the utility new utility building that's in between the between the two buildings. So I mean, if you're okay saying that we could do the platform in the building and you're just concerned about the doors that you're going to see. I'd be good with that. And you know, if the doors are set back four or five feet, I'm not going to have a huge issue about what they look like. Well, Eric and I'm trying to think you've got 41 Elm that I think sets back a little bit further than one school. And they're not totally flush between the two buildings. And I think Meredith is maybe not hearing us so we can't get those drawings back up. But John, are you there? John, that is muted Meredith. Can you unmute John? Can you hear me? Yeah, I can. Yeah, I had to log out. Because something completely froze up and I couldn't change anything. Can you hear me now? Yeah, there's John. Okay. I think those buildings are pretty close at the front. Tim, but the mechanical space is going to be way towards the back. So I think people's concerns are genuine and we will be able to, you know, show them that we have to get down below the mechanical space as well as get to it. So you'll actually come, you'll open these gates that are intended to hide the whole mess. And then you'll go up a few steps to get to the mechanical room and across a walkway to the mechanical space. And then you'll have to, you'll have some steps to go down, which give access to 41M. So we'll show some dimensions on that and we'll show some more detail on the gates that you will sit with the general public will see. Okay. Hey John, what I'm, what I'm hearing potentially is that they're okay with us doing the platform and the utility shed and the steps going down. It's just the front doors that they want to get more detail on my comment was I was hoping to get started, you know, before the cold weather for our contractors to start doing that work outdoors. But maybe I'm misunderstanding that at all. Maybe I'm misunderstanding, you know, what do you guys are? No, that's their, that's what I heard and I'm trying to let them know that, that they're concerned about it being too far forward is, is not an issue. If you look at the plans we submitted, you'll see it's quite far back, but I agree where if you could get going on the mechanical space and get approval for that, we'll come back with some detail on what those gates will look like that people will see. If everybody's good with that, that'd be great. I would, I'd be concerned that the gates don't swing out into the sidewalk. Yeah, you know, that would be a physical concern. Me, okay. It's noted. It looks like they're the distance between the bill. I'm not sure what the distance is between the buildings, but if the bill, the distance between the buildings is maybe five or six feet, that should be fine. If it's set back three feet, the three foot of doors not going to swing out into the sidewalk. Yeah, I like your math, Steve. It's a little very simple. That's about first grade level. It's simpler to say than to execute because the existing steps go down immediately and we wanted to get up fairly quickly, so that'll have some impact on, on, yeah. Anyway, we'll look at that and come back with some more detail. Okay, thank you. Thanks. Thanks, everyone. Yeah, so the next, the next DRC meeting is in two weeks and then after that, so that's November 20th, and then after that is the first Monday in December. So if you can get something, no, it says it's not finding my speaker. We hear you. Can you hear you? Yeah, except the Zoom is going to freak out. Anyway, so if you can get us something quickly, we can get you on the December, the November 20th. And when would materials have to be in your hands for the 20th? Really, preferably by the Monday before if we're going to get it in printed packets for the members to get printed packets. When's the next meeting? The first Monday of December. And when would that have to be in? So that's December 4th, so preferably November 27th. Because we're putting together packets by the 29th and making sure we have copies of everything and getting them on our website. Okay, that's helpful. I know you know, Tim, you're like, I want to get everything done. Little detail. Yeah, there you go. Okay. Just as a kind of administrative thing, do we need any kind of a motion to approve what we were just talking about in the utility room? So what way are you approving in the utility room that was design review specific though? Just the platform which won't be showing from the street. The only thing showing from the street would be the doors. Right, so you don't actually see the platform. So that's more of a building permit item that they'll have to get tweaked. And normally we actually don't issue the building permits until the zoning permits gets issued. It's just part of our software. So I think it's more along the lines of us all having an understanding of what Tim can move forward with. You don't need to do a motion because your aspect of it is continued until it sounds like the December meeting. Unless they get everything back suddenly. So I think you're just going to have a motion to continue the application to the next meeting that the applicant can submit materials for. Yes. But you'll issue a building permit for me to do the platform? Well, you'll come in and we'll talk to Michelle. Especially because the platform is flood related, right? You're having to do that because of the flood stuff. And so there's a little bit more leniency on that one. Okay. Sounds great. And Eric, did you do a so moved? Yes. So moved. And again, all in all in favor of just speak your names. Then Martha and Steve. So go ahead with your platform again, subject to the building permit. But otherwise we only want to see the detail on the doors that will be covering from the state. Great. And then the details on everything else are coming back to right? Yes. Okay. Thank you all. Thanks. Thank you. Good luck to the rest of the meeting. I hope the microphones work. Well, you guys, you guys still have to still hear from 41 41 Elm Street. Yeah. Don't go away yet. Don't go away yet. Let's see what we can get you approved for. Go ahead and describe 41 Elm. John, you want to do it? Take it. Sure. 41 Elm has less, less changes, fewer changes. The left hand side is an existing office and will remain so. But if you refer to the plans, the right half is going to be converted to a residential apartment. And they are not going to change the floor because they're all in pretty good shape and they're going to use the existing partitions. So really the only change that the public will see is potentially relocating the, we're considering relocating the existing door and changing it. And I have a submission that shows the kind of door we're proposing to better accommodate the floor plan of the apartment. Where's the door going? It's let me see if I hold on one sec. Let me find this image that we can talk to. So there's this. It's here. It's the hippie chickpea entrance, but let me pull up Google Maps. It's a little bit clearer picture. Well, there we go. That's good. That's actually good. That's fine. Where's it? Where's the door going now? Okay. So the door is the one between the two automobiles. Yes, right there. And the only thing we're considering is moving it to the other side of that recess entrance so that it makes a better floor plan in the apartment. And you just put a window in where the door is now. We would sort of swap the window in the door. I have no problem with that at all. And are you also talking about switching the door to solid so that it's not a big glass pane? Yes, I did submit the kind of doors we're proposing as four panel door, but just for the privacy of the apartment. Well, yes. Okay. And that entrance would continue to be recessed back from the sidewalk. Correct. Any comments, questions, suggestions from members? Otherwise, I'll read down through the criteria. I just want to say I'm empathetic to the project and want it to move forward and want them to swap the door. I do in the future wish we would get more sort of drawings that allowed us to know what we were deciding. You're going to get them. If you would feel more comfortable, we could wait and do all these again if you would like to see that, Ben. Well, I want you to move forward on your project and I don't want to be in the way, but I do feel like we owe it to our future applicants that we have like clarity on what we're deciding because people gesturing on screens is pretty hard to like put in the record and sort of feel like when we do get into a sticking point with somebody else in the future that we're just like, oh, I just kind of did this and we agreed. I understand. Well, what we can do with this one is in the recommendations at the end. We can say that the door is going to be swapped with the window on the far right and the window will be moved back. The existing balance will be maintained with the door just in the different position and it will be a four panel door to replace the door that has glass in it and then that should that way you'll have the same appearance. It'll just be the doors on the right instead of on the left, but the rest of it the balance will be maintained. I agree with you generally, Ben, but in this case, I don't think the details are nearly as critical as they are on the school street side of the building. Well, we'll leave it up to the architect to maintain the balance that exists now. That sounds great. Okay, and with that in mind, I'll read through the criteria for this one. This will give you something to do before the next meeting on the other building. Thank you. Exterior design and materials of new construction or alterations of existing building should be consistent and compatible with the characteristics of the existing building or other properties in the district. The removal of historic materials or alteration of features and spaces that characterize an historic property should be avoided. Character defining features, finishes and construction techniques or examples of craftsmanship that characterize an historic building should be preserved. We're not dealing with any deteriorated character defining features nor any treatments that cause damage to the building. So that's it will be acceptable with the recommendations existing building should be recognized as a physical record of their time, place and use in a new development shall be differentiated from the old, but shall respect and be compatible with a massing size scale architectural features detailing an overall character of the primary historic building acceptable. Location and appearance of all utility utilities mechanical equipment trash storage fencing really not. I'll just call it acceptable because there's nothing here that addresses that alterations to buildings called for by public safety accessibility and fire code shall be designed to maintain the character of the construction materials and features to the maximum extent possible. Acceptable. Are you selling out the right form? You have the 41 Elm Street not the one school street. Wait a minute here. Okay. Yes, the first two will skip over the utilities and alterations that one was acceptable. The only one that was not designated was location and appearance of utilities. So on the number nine proportion compatibility of relationship between width and height of facades as well as relationship of width to height of windows and doors acceptable rhythm visual patterns established by the alterations of solid walls and openings in the facade of building shall create a rhythm acceptable. We're basically maintaining what was there just with the reversal of the door in the window. Architectural features including but not limited to cornices windows shutters fan lights and tabulator trim and other forms of molding or character defining detailing prevailing on the existing building shall be considered in the alterations acceptable outdoor lighting fixture. Is there lighting in there now? Yes, as you can see in the photograph and that would remain unchanged. Okay, is that overhead or beside the door or it's overhead. I think you can if you look at the submission it's easier to see than described. Okay. Well, if it's recessed above the entry that could be depending on where it's located either in the center or over the door that could be moved to the other side if need be by the relocation of the door. Well, there are two light fixtures sort of evenly spaced above that recess. So I think regardless of what we do it will be remain kind of symmetrical. Here, let me show you I've got it on the zoom and there we go Google Maps. They have signed had sign lighting here so they can angle one of those down for whichever side the door is going to be on. It's not under the overhang. It's over the yes overhead. Yep. If for any reason you need it or like at the doorway itself you could install a recessed fixture or something you know above the doorway. Yeah, that'd be great. If you do decide to adjust the lighting that'll be something a little bit that will have to evaluate that for zoning purposes because there's a total maximum lumens per parcel. So you might want to wait on that. You'll have sort of the pre approval for design review but make sure you run changes to the light fixtures by me. Okay. There are enough. We could allow our recessed fixture over the entry subject to approval for the subject to administrative approval as well. Awesome. And lastly, windows and doors on historic structures character defining windows and door patterns placement sizes, proportions and original features such as trim, sash and molding shall be preserved to the extent possible. And it says character defining windows and doors must be rehabilitated or replaced in kind, which is fine with your proposal and windows and doors that are not character defining doesn't apply here. So to change that door with a four panel door is fine. All in favor of the application. Speak your nates. You're Ben. It's Martha. Steve. Did Eric. Yep. He did. That's a four. I'm sorry. I missed it. So it's approved. Four in favor. And Meredith you want to just describe their next step for this one. Yeah, I think because there are some recommendations that Steve filled out on the form. Probably what I'll do Tim is have you sign the recommendation for all get that back from Steve tomorrow. And so you can either do that in person or I'll scan it and email it to you and you can just email it back before we issue the zoning permit for 41 Elm. But I figure we'll probably see you in here to talk about School Street too. That'd be great. Okay. We found on it. Awesome. Thanks everyone for your flexibility. I appreciate it. Okay. Thank you and good luck with your projects. Thank you. Thanks Tim. Thanks Tim. Bye bye Steve. Bye guys. Thanks Meredith. See you doc. You're welcome. We can move forward to the next application for 707 stone cutters way. FHS holdings. Yeah and that's going to be I mean it hasn't technically been opened. It's going to be tabled at this point until I hear back from the applicants they are not in a space to have anybody attending tonight to talk about a sign. Yeah they've got more more immediate concerns. Exactly exactly. So they'll they'll be back in touch when they're ready because I mean for all we know they're going to readjust how they do that whole site and do different different signage completely. We'll see what happens with that one. Okay has everyone had a chance to look at the meeting minutes of September 5th 18th and October 2nd. Well addressing the ones on September 5th I make a motion that we accept them the way they are. Okay. Go ahead here a second. Good. All in favor speak your names. You're Martha. So the September 5th is approved wait I wasn't there take me. Oh it's it's okay there the majority of the people were there. So you you reviewed for typos. Yeah. We have we have the three we needed. Yep. And how about September the 18th. I wasn't there. Eric or Ben I will see questions or changes. No. Okay make here a motion to approve. So moved. But I got a second. All in favor speak your names. Then and Steve the 18th is approved. And how about for October the 2nd. This is Martha I'll make it at the motion to accept it the way it's written. Okay and a second. All second. All in favor speak your names. Martha. Steve. So October 2nd is approved. Thank you. And do I hear a motion unless anybody has anything to add do I hear a motion to adjourn. So moved. And this is Martha I'll second it. All in favor of adjournments speak your names Eric. Martha. Then and Steve. Meeting is adjourned and