 So my moment is now, sort of just in the last two weeks and looking ahead to the next month or so. And I feel like along the river I sort of feel like I'm approaching some rapids so I sort of feel like it's been a little bit calm and a little bit sort of easier going on this project so I should say it's the peer research project that I talked about earlier, which has been running for a couple of months now. I feel like I'm approaching the rapids because I sort of feel like we're getting into territory where we've recruited participants and we're about to start them in a programme of training and they're about to go into their communities. And the rapids are leading up to a waterfall. So the thing for me is about the conversation we're having earlier about trying to avoid defaulting back to my research practice pre pandemic, just because things are a little bit different now or we're not only having to work exclusively online or there are demands on our research which we were having to kind of navigate simply because of social distancing. So yeah, the rapids are kind of going up to the waterfall. I'm trying to avoid that sort of in my research practice in terms of how I'm thinking about working with others and also what I might expect from others by not pretending that everything is as it was before. So I'm trying to turn the canoe around I think possibly because there is also this thing around for me at the moment with this sort of this you could get taken by the rapids quite easily towards the waterfall because you think it's easier because you recognise it you think oh okay. I don't know how to do this or how to convene people face to face in place or whatever it may be. So I think that's the that's the bit I'm in at the moment so yeah that is my starting point. So I don't know if that prompts anything for anyone else. I'm doing some similar reflections in terms of what to do now things are looking slightly different. So, since March 2020 when the first lockdown in the UK happened to now I'd be engaged in doing sensory ethnography in various ways I've been actively researching throughout. And in that little task of doing the river, don't have to be able to see. So here's March 2020 and where we are now. I guess this kind of down in a sense is not being able to access the field sites and having to adapt the methods in a very concrete and reactive way so the water is very constricted over the dam and running fast. And that's kind of represent the kind of feeling of doing the research at that time and having to do everything very quick and to progress. And it's splintering. So there's lots of options and you kind of follow a stream redirect research and it's kind of me and doing along and you're making progress and then really now we're in a different moment. March 2022, which I can do some sense of ethnography, you know, in an actual physical space with some certain populations and types of people. So, I think it's widened out like water is going slow enough. There's a bit of question to reflect on larger kind of questions around the relationship between methods and the social context in which we find ourselves so I've been kind of reflecting on questions around where we are now. And certainly is doing both in society, but to our research methods with a particular kind of thought about where do we go next which really connects to what you were saying that Kerry about like do you go to business as usual to the methods that you use the user, or do you kind of completely go well actually aspects of this doing online sensory interviews contributes to be able to do certain things do you do away with old now with a new or do you blend them in certain ways. And it's kind of those are the position that I'm trying myself in now is thinking about what the current situation affords and where we are, and what to do with it in terms of the methods. So, yeah, that's my response. This made me think as well that there's a, there's like an ethical dimension to it to me as well so this idea of like collapsing back into how it was before means that I might not be practicing my research in the most ethical way, because I won't be taking account of kind of actively taking account of my participants positions or their changed realities, as well as my own and all that comes with that so there's this kind of dual thing going on about applicability of method but also it goes back to a point we were making earlier about, are we taking stock of the now, and our positionality in relation to ourselves and the work that we're doing so there is this slightly more kind of philosophical element to it as well as the kind of practical part of making sure that you're sort of doing the right thing by the research by the people who are involved in it and also with a healthy dose of uncertainty because I don't know the answer just yet. I'm happy to add to that next, if I may. I don't, I'm still debating if my the start of my project was, which was November 2020 if it was a storm or just draw and just nothing, no water, because I, my project is based in Ethiopia, Eritrean the UK so I'm based in Ethiopia and upon arrival literally four days later a war started in the research side so the project started the war started and the pandemic was happening already so I was, I think I had a breakdown a mental breakdown to be honest with you and and since then. I think I think someone raised this before that you know uncertainty and hardship forces you to think creatively and productively and so you know we shifted the project to other regions. And so we tried as well as we could we build new partnerships as quite I think we were quite fortunate to be able to find those partnerships so I think we're now at a point we entered the second year of the project where we have adapted we've achieved some of the major milestones that we have for year one. And now we're having new opportunities are appearing from these new partnerships that seem to deviate slightly from the original vision, but not not really it falls within the project objective but you know in different ways than we imagined. And so there are new opportunities that seem to kind of deviate a bit from from the original plan and the question now is, should we, you know, change the plan should we transfer budget from original activities you know to new opportunities you know how do we kind of leverage on on the new the positive side of these challenges right without rejecting these these new directions right any opportunities but at the same time, honoring the original vision that was created in the partnership and you know we do aim to be the colonial and on or the collaborative nature of the project so of course we don't want to deviate from the original plan that was co created to some extent with our original partners that we can't access now in the conflict area so you know there's this dilemma which I think is also an ethical dilemma of you know, a practical and an ethical dilemma at the same time, because one has to make sure that the project continues it's implemented and be accountable to the funder, and also make sure that the funds are being used because if we don't change the plan then we can't use the funds. And so that is an missed opportunity as well. I can take it from here. And I have actually the whole river I'm not really sure I'm going to try to walk you through it I really did my best so what I wanted to show first. I think it's something I don't remember maybe Ned and Pedro were talking about the, let's not forget the productive dimension of dealing with uncertainty so the way I structure my river. And on this axis of the vertical you have the life of the project, and then on the horizontal one, you have here the moments when dealing with uncertainty was overwhelming, I think it's really important to acknowledge that. But as we were talking about earlier I think it's really important to acknowledge the fact that actually at moments during our projects we felt that it was a productive thing that there were a lot of lessons to be learned. I just wanted to kind of highlight two moments that are opposite one of them was this one where we have the boat. I don't know if you can see the boat but basically I think an event like ours is a boat that we had during, you know the trajectory of of covered. We had a lot of events like this one where we could meet and we exchange views and I think we were each other support at one point or another. I think for me this is late January this year where also the flexibility of methods that we could try was a really good thing. And I think there are just a lot of new ideas about how we can recruit people, how we can engage people, how we can have access to people that maybe before we couldn't just because you know they were all the time busy but now we had all these online platforms and new ways of getting in touch with people. And then as I said like a lot of the events and the people I put in the safety boat that could help us you know, navigate all these difficult waters. And then I wanted just to very quickly kind of show the current moment also the current moment for me is actually on the negative side where I feel like there are a lot of things that are making it a little bit unbearable to deal with uncertainty. And some of the things already got mentioned is about the difficulty of recruiting people of retaining people. And as I was talking about earlier the difficulty of actually ensuring the well being of the research team itself, and I would add something that I think something to carry. I think Ned inspire me to think about. I feel like as a researcher we feel this pressure right now to show that we have learned something that you know all these different, both tools that we develop during COVID but also just the ways in which we as researchers things have taught us something that's really important and we feel responsible to show that that is the case in our current work. And, and same with the ethics I feel like we feel this responsibility to show right now that we have learned something about research ethics and about the rigor and you know as we started in the first workshop we said, Oh maybe COVID can help us rethink what research ethics and research rigor is about. And I feel like this moment maybe for me maybe for others is of enhanced kind of difficulty or like dealing with uncertainties of a more intense just because I feel like all these burdens are piling up on each other, including this big one that I feel like oh I should be able to rethink research ethics and research rigor in light of all these many complex experiences. Okay I'll go next talking about uncertainties, certainties, pressure. I also did a drawing, quite big, hope you can see it, but I'll start. Basically I want to talk about my PhD research because I'm six months in, and it's more personal and I guess long term project that I have at the moment, and also it is perhaps the one that I have more agency in terms of making uncertainty certain, and I feel like this pendulum movement has been one of the things that I've learned and one of the strategies that I'm taking to approach this. But also just to take a step back beforehand. I think that. So this is me six months ago, and also now. So I felt like I was, you know, I'm here I'm starting something I'm grounded. I've got a plan, I've got funding, I've got time, I've got ambition, but and I also have all these streams of decisions and things that I need to refine and reshape. Literature review or the methodology or the research question, or you know, selecting the case study, going through ethics, and these are things that I'm kind of sailing now, but these leads me to this huge sea of uncertainty. Six months ago, this was quite overwhelming. So I know where I am, and I've come a long way to just be here, starting this big long journey, but there is a sea of uncertainty with sea monsters and creatures and storms and challenges that need to be faced and need to be overcome. So my initial reaction with reaction was to be quite anxious and wanted to control and to decide everything. Then and there. So in order to tackle the uncertainty, I felt like I needed to just make those decisions very quick, read everything I could as you know as fast as possible. So this would mean that I'm moving forward. But then again, the nature of PhD research and long term research projects is about allowing time to develop and there's so much thing so many things that you don't control, or there will change even if you have a plan, and if you have strategies in place to navigate those changes. So, and even when you reach the sea of uncertainty there's also this deep sea level of the field research so when you have everything read you have to go and do the, the, the delivery of the project, and there are so many things that can go wrong or can go differently from what you previewed or foresaw, and then analyzing and writing and finishing and getting to the end to reporting or in my case, just submitting my final dissertation thesis. So that's why I wanted to sort of focus on this at the moment because I think it can be applicable to other research project. And just one final comment which is that in order to be in this point here. As the boat. There was the whole uncertainty that came beforehand of COVID. So, and I want to stress this because for me, when March 2020 and the first lockdowns and the initial changes. That came with COVID for me was actually an opportunity to have the time and the space and the focus to really work on this. And before COVID I didn't have that luxury where it wasn't being able to have that time. So for me, the uncertainty of COVID. It was stressful and challenging but it also gave me this gold opportunity to really focus and put together my PhD research project and get funding for it, etc. So when when I got here, I had passed those uncertainties, but then I had the whole see again. So I feel like what I want to say is that there's always this sort of movement of, you know, becoming or making things certain, but then there's other things that will be uncertain, and on a personal on a professional level. You know, either as a researcher or as a, as a, as a citizen as a theater maker, and obviously working with other people. So, so yeah I guess, knowing that there always be this shift, perhaps helps us to have less anxiety, and to be, I guess, more straightforward when those uncertainties happen again, because they will. It's interesting, Pedro, that in your experience that that sort of initial moment of uncertainty or the uncertainty that was introduced through the pandemic created space for you. This is my interpretation, this might not be quite the right way of putting it, you might not use that language, but it did the opposite for me. So it was the chaos that's been talked about in the chat, and this sort of urgency and pressure and confusion and, you know, kind of overlaid with the general, you know, sense of the world that everyone was experiencing at that point. But in my sort of working context my research context yet did the opposite and it really sort of focused down onto a whole set of pressure around having to convert and adapt and navigate with no time to think about it. So I think that's also an interesting reflection with respect to kind of facing uncertainty now and in the future. I didn't give myself and wasn't offered. So it's a two way thing. A moment to think, ah, so what will I do here then. I'm just going to need to take some time out to just like work this out and that didn't happen and said it was like react react react react react so in some ways that's why partly on my river which I've not drawn out. This feels like the karma time this kind of having got over this sort of hump of keeping the show on the road keeping people employed keeping my team safe and happy. Making sure we could still deliver research for the people we do research you know those types of things and those things came first in the priority order of working stuff out. But that has also given me some learning as you as you were pointing out with your with your picture that you know that there's something else to come but perhaps now you have got some resources and resilience and some sense of how you might approach it and I also think there are aspects of that where I might try to give more permission me and you know sort of organizationally to just be a bit more intentional about it because I think the nature of uncertainty is this introduction. For me anyway it's really the first time that I've experienced something on this scale in my research career of an impact of this type. So I think that again, there's something in there about being confronted by this thing that you haven't really had to be confronted by and yeah would I would I do things differently next time I'd like to think I had a bit of space but just that concept of having some or having none. Yeah just came up for me listening to you talk there. I don't carry if I met that I think we were discussing earlier how you know uncertainty dealing with uncertainty kind of brings up new skills in one oneself I think I said earlier that I feel like an entrepreneur these days, trying to navigate new situations and as you say react react and troubleshoot but also kind of leverage new opportunities, because I don't know if tomorrow will have new opportunities because tomorrow we might have new crisis so I'm trying to kind of, and you know not not feel secure essentially I'm training myself not to feel secure so that I can be proactive today. And I think that's an interesting, that's an interesting kind of outcome. Perhaps we as researchers are now becoming, you know, are realizing perhaps that the research is is, you know, almost like any other tasks that we're dealing with in our lives. It requires you know multiple skills and thinking outside of the box you know perhaps we have been a bit too rigid in terms of how we do research and how we think around research. Myself dealing with this very large project in three countries in the in the last now second year of the project has made me realize that you know there are sectors that actually deal very well with uncertainty and risk mitigation and planning. When there is, you know, in front of the unknown, such as financial prediction or entrepreneurship or business or sectors that you know are leaders in whatever they do so I think perhaps we need to kind of look at other disciplines and sectors and see how they deal with this and integrate some of these insights in our own research practice. You know, and just realize that perhaps the answers do not always lie within, you know, our own discipline or around our own sector. So this might be that moment that we actually look for new directions and and and really think outside of the box I guess yeah. And I added that I thought was such an interesting point that you highlighted Romina and also this concept of the researcher as entrepreneur, I think it's very interesting because to me, what this makes me think about is, Okay, these are all our responsibilities. These are all our individual lessons, but what about the larger institutions and structures. It's like, are there any kind of changes that are happening within, you know, the academic institutions there. You know the third sector organizations that are doing research like what are the lessons that they are, you know, learning, how are they changing because what I'm hearing is like we are we as individual researchers in our individual organizations seems like there's a lot of learning and refashioning of our own selves as researchers, but I think we can be alone, and we shouldn't be left alone I think that there should be more of a structured institutional kind of learning that goes hand in hand with, you know, the way we are transitioning into these new roles. And I would add to that saying that, you know this idea of now the researcher being an entrepreneur as well and all this responsibility that it's added on our shoulders makes me just think that in a way is capitalism on all these neoliberal researchers are further being imposed on us as if you know all this adaptation and adjustment of research practices like so much about individual researchers. It has to take all this responsibility on and not so much on the systems that somehow they seem to be just fine being as they were, and all the work again remains on individuals who have to become you know entrepreneurs in a new kind of, in a new kind of world, while everything else stays kind of the same because it's working. Yeah I don't know if you agree with me on this assessment but yeah it sounds like a lot of the work to come is still on us and not so much somehow streamline on to other kinds of actors and structures. I had a slightly different thought in relation to what Romina was saying so I agree with both what Romina said in the Olympia what you've picked up on there. As you were talking Romina I was thinking a little bit about. So it was when you're talking about the kind of bridging from learning from, you know, how do we see ourselves in relation to others. I was wondering whether to the pandemic itself maybe a, I don't know if it's a typical crisis or an atypical crisis in the context of other forms of uncertainty that might be arising globally. But I wonder if as. So, the thing I was thinking about is this idea that there's this more common experience happening and the boundaries between researcher and researched or us as researchers and our personal lives or, you know these boundaries that were much more blurred, or perhaps heightened or amplified. As a consequence, it's not the only time it happens but I feel like perhaps it's an example. And I wondered about whether it. There's the possibility in here somewhere that this kind of brings us, or has done, brought us epistemologically closer to our participants. I'm interested anyway in a kind of knowledge production and forms of knowledge and power and research and the way in which that acts and we're all involved in projects and processes which engage with that too. And it just made me think you know there was this kind of common to rather than the separation occurring between me as a researcher going out to do my research I may or may not have something in common with the people I'm working with. All of a sudden I did have something in common and I do have something in common in the sort of wider social context. And that's as far as I've got with that but it just, yeah that thought got sparked from from just listening to a bit of that conversation there. And what the implications of that obviously question mark. I think these discussions really interesting because it kind of feeds into adding to thoughts I'm having around like where we are at now now. And what you picked up there about, in many ways, the onus has been on it us as individual researchers and individual projects to respond to some sort of external circumstance to continue to produce what we said we were going to produce. And we're all coming around and there's certain kind of felt dynamics to that that we've all kind of experienced as researchers, but there's also been a lot of literature published and a lot of experiences we shared as a group about like how we've experimented or created our methods. And there's a lot of learning there to capture through these individual kind of research for centuries that have gone through uncertainty but now, I guess, there's different types of uncertainties that are continuing from but also from other things that are really characteristic of a wider kind of world in which we live in, and in which research operates, and like academics and universities are placed, which does draw in these kind of questions around, like, how, as, how do our disciplines and our structures mold to these new times, and what sort of training does that require. And what onus we put on. I think you said Kerry about participants producing knowledge and closer to our participants in that way through these times, how can we use different epistemologies and different knowledge producers in these new times I think is kind of broadening these discussions these more deep longer term things in which we need to kind of call for more structural and systemic and disciplinary changes not just okay my project needs to move from doing an ethnography to doing online interviews kind of adaptations. I would like to add to this I thought was so interesting what you were saying both Kerry your point about being closer to participants, it resonates so much. I don't necessarily agree though I think, to me, it's sometimes it feels like that sometimes it doesn't because I think it depends on the participants I think we have all been engaged in research projects, in which, you know, our entire group of participants, you know, of a specific demographic, completely dropped out, like I was in that situation and it was, again like we know COVID impacted different demographics differently. So I think in some way, maybe we are closer to some of the participants and I do think that we have challenged some of the power relations. And we have managed to start thinking about you know not distracting knowledge from communities because we are able to do more participatory research because we needed some allies in those communities because we couldn't be as close geographically as we used to be and I think Romina talked about this in our first workshop, you know, the fact that we couldn't go to the field work in some countries meant that we had to rely on people from those countries, hence we had to rethink, you know, power relations knowledge but then I also think that with some participants, actually, we have grown far apart. And, you know, and I'm thinking especially about people who lost their jobs people who were remained, you know, unemployed through the past couple of years I think those people. Unfortunately, you know, their voices I think we kind of missed them because, you know, they had much bigger concerns than being our research participants. I wouldn't want to generalize but in my own work I feel like, yeah there are some groups of people whose voices we completely missed and we need to think about how we, how we managed to reincorporate their voices moving forward. Yeah, absolutely and I think maybe just to kind of clarify to the sort of origin of my thought it was just more around. Yeah, maybe it's that maybe you've added some examples to it in what ways might uncertainty speak to the kind of epistemological or distance that might otherwise exist between researchers and the people that they research in normative structures and disciplines, of course, and there's all kinds of ways to kind of subvert or be on the edge of those or not, you know, so is this is this a moment where as a result of that innovation and need to create adapt or evolve. It's also an opportunity to really look at that and understand some of the ways in which it may not have facilitated some change around those boundaries or not indeed, you know, and or what are the consequences of where it's where that might be happening but also where it might not be so and that came across strongly there in your, in those last comments around. And of course that may have worked in some cases it certainly hasn't certainly not the case in others but yeah I think kind of epistemology in the in the broadest sense in terms of research as a practice, rather than individual relationships between researchers and researched although perhaps it acts in multiple ways. And to that carry, I think, I think that's a brilliant point and I think what we see here, if I may say is, I don't know, a humanization of research again I think perhaps because of the capitalist system or in the different conflicting priorities of researchers, the different people we are accountable to funders institutions, communities, we kind of troubleshoot we became you know, we just almost work mechanically and, and, and you know we just have so many responsibilities that I think sometimes it's about it has become about continuing projects and proving that, you know, we have the capacity to deal with the challenges and bring projects to fruition which you know our career careers depend on, you know, to blatantly to say it blatantly right. And I think in doing that in that process of struggle, we sometimes forget not only the human aspect of research and the human element or just our participants. I think we're more reflective about our participants needs oftentimes on our own. And I think this crisis has evidenced or has reminded us how vulnerable we all are and how important it is that we work first as individuals, and then as researchers we, we have those moments within teams where we can express our frustrations and challenges and, and be a mechanism and a platform of support for each other. And I've seen this in my team. You know I think in the beginning I was quite, I wouldn't say demanding but I would expect you know certain certain objectives to be met, and I think, as time went by, and I saw my own difficulties and challenges and the difficulties of partners. In dealing with not just the pandemic but the war consequences here in Ethiopia. It just became clear that you know we need to prioritize human well being and ensuring that we give people the time they need some, you know, some things take more time there's there's different ways of dealing with situations. I think, I think that's a good thing. It, you know, it's, it's, it's hard to be flexible when you need to meet objectives in a, in very tight deadlines let's be very clear about it. But at the same time I think it kind of force forced us to try and find a way where we can work under pressure but still honor our, you know, kind of, you know, our needs as human beings first and foremost, a family life. And when people are sick we give them their time so I think this humanization I don't know how else to put it but I think it's a wake up call in a way. I don't know what we do with it, moving forward because that's, as you said it is a capitalistic system. And it's a very demanding system. I think, you know, institutions are becoming even more precarious than they used to be. So I, you know, unless we have support from institutions, unless institutions themselves change. I mean, academic, you know, academic institutions and also funders become more flexible. So we can continue in that direction and, and, you know, foster these positive lessons and adaptations that we have achieved, you know, for years to come, post pandemic and post crisis. That's, yeah, that's a thought I'd love to know how other people think about this. And I want to add to remain as I feel and I sort of intuitively see and hear you guys. That uncertainty, because it's a continuum, but it's also has all these dimensions and natures and impact. It does shape the grounds of many things and even before the pandemic, for example, there were huge accelerated technological changes cultural changes already brewing, and perhaps this has sort of increased. It's been increased as well as a result of the pandemic worldwide. So this post is sort of like a, even a political responsibility or a call to action. As you were saying, of the role of research itself and the responsibility that research have in society as a whole, and obviously in each particular project. So it's ethics, it's a status, it's politics. And I, I do concur to this idea of democratizing knowledge and evening the shift of the power dynamics that exists in our project, even with the best intentions there's always, you know, hierarchy and and power dynamics at play. So this idea of the human aspect the environmental aspect that is brought by or heightened by those prices that feel very much urgent, also very high stakes that climate emergency war pandemic. So there is a sense of responding quickly. So being resilient and someone was talking about resilience, although resilience can also be co-opted by the neoliberal discourse, and you know, toughen up and just whatever it comes you just go through and survive and carry on and produce and this idea of ongoing productivity without actually reflecting why are we doing this, how do we do things, the epistemological debate as well. So what I would like to just add or finish with is this idea that because of all these rapid changes and the company to be adapting and assessing and obviously getting funding for projects and you know the structures in place also as trainers, in many ways, but building spaces to actually breathe to actually reflect together this interconnectedness we talk about networks we talked about complex system. We need more of this within the academia within fields, within different methods, but also beyond the academia with the people we work with the people with 30 subjects. The organizations, the institutions, there needs to be more space where we can actually share knowledge, exchange, co-create together, co-research together and build this different society and one final element which relates to resilience but perhaps flips it around a bit is the idea of flourishing. So how can we think in a systemic way of actually amplifying potentials in people in projects and then navigating those insurgents or using a subsidy as a fuel to constantly be able to adapt and grow from it. So I would say, yeah, resilience and flourishing, which connects to this idea of system, you know, either, you know, my helium networks or plants or, you know, the ecosystem idea, everything is connected. And this has been something we learn perhaps from the pandemic but also from living in a globalized world. Just money is connected, people, information, feelings, energies, everything is part of the same system. So I feel like we need to have more and more of this approach of building, holding, of being, of treasuring these spaces of share and exchange, either it's in a research context, or just in normal life.