 I'm Marsha Joyner, and this is Cannabis Chronicle, a 10,000-year odyssey, but we're not going back 10,000 years today. We are dealing with tomorrow in the cannabis industry. The state of Hawaii, and I suppose other states, are now asking that all CBD products be certified, that they have been checked by laboratories and the manufacturers, so that we know exactly what is in the product. So I have asked my two dear friends, and you all know I only talk to dear friends, I asked the gentleman from Camel who do have certified products, whose products are based from the manufacturers certified to be what they are, so I asked them to come join us today to talk about what it means to be certified, what happens, how does the product get certified, what does it tell us, okay? Theo? Hello, how's it going? And James? Good morning. Good morning. And of course, I always, like I said, talk to my dear friends, but you are the ones that I have known the longest, and you're the ones that are certified. What is a certification? Let's start there. Well, a certification, actually it's called a COA, it means certificate of analysis. And what that is is, it's a guarantee that you're not getting adulterated product, and the product has been tested, analyzed at a laboratory that has a certain certification to be able to say this is clean medicine, this is clean to use, there's no contaminant in it. So does it tell us what is in it? Yes, it does. So if we're getting CBD, what are we looking for? When you get the certificate of analysis, the most important thing is to make sure that the laboratory that you're getting the test at has what they call an ISO-17025 certification, which is the International Organization of Standardization. That certification gives the laboratory accreditation to be able to analyze certain things specifically for THC or cannabinoid content or CBD content. So in this case, I don't know if the bill is just for CBD or if it's for medical cannabis also, I would assume that for medical cannabis they are already doing that. Yes. So they're analyzing the fact that yes, if it is something that's being sold under a license as a dispensary, it has to have a COA, it has to be a different house. So they're already doing that. They're already doing that. And the, I would say the CBD market or the cannabidiol market, that is not true for all states. It is not a standard at this point. The USDA and other bodies, the FDA, they're pushing towards having standardized testing, but we haven't reached that point yet. I, you know, they've had so many programs about the crap that's in the CBD and you don't know what you're getting. And I heard you on one program talk about some synthetic CBD. So what is synthetic CBD? What is that? Some of the, how they make it and how they go about distilling it. There's different methods used to make it. And some people use things like butane, and people- Butane for what? To extract the medication from the plant material, to extract it, to have a pure form or concentrate form to be sold to the open market. They'll use that butane, sometimes hexane, sometimes ethanol. Most of those processes are safe processes butane being the least safest. It's kind of outlawed in most states. But some people do still use butane, and that's, hence we need COA testing, a specific analysis for the products prior to the customer purchase. So that would leave some kind of a trace in the product? Yes, yes, it's concentrated. The residual solvents that's in there could be harmful to your health. Some of them, if you talk about part per million, there's standardization that's what comes with the COA. If the COA says that it doesn't meet the standard, then the product cannot be sold to the customer. Okay, now I went to an event that had all kind of vendors, and selling CBD. All of them were selling CBD in some form or another. And there was one group of women. And the product was absolutely beautiful, packaged gorgeous from the mainland, slick literature. But they didn't understand what the product was. They're just selling, and they're just reading what it says. How do we know when it comes from beauty? I had to assume, since the manufacturer spent that much money to do it, that it's okay. But how do we know? The only way you know is that the manufacturer has a certificate of analysis from an internal analysis standpoint, and also a third-party analysis standpoint, which is most important, which should be the requirement come 2020, I think they're moving towards making that a standardization. Yes. The reason I'm asking, what is it on the label? Is it, like I said, these ladies did not package this here. This came from the mainland. Right. Most of them are on the label, or on the label that is on the product itself. If there is a bottle on the side, the most recently, they've been doing QR codes. Yes, QR codes. So QR codes, you can scan it from your cell phone, and you should be able to get a link to a website that has the analytical sign-ups. Oh, so that would be stamped on the label? They're starting to make that a requirement, as far as the packaging of CBD products and also TAC products to where the customer themselves can get further information. If the person is not as inclined to provide that information or education to the patient because you have a conflict when it comes to making medical claim. So some people will not make that medical claim, which is hindering us from talking to the patient. When we're more clear, you know what I'm saying, in a format of what this can and cannot do or should not do it for you, but scanning it makes it really easy when the certificate analysis comes up. Then there's other ways to vet if that's a real certificate of analysis or not. Well, I guess that was my next question. How do you know it's real? Yes, there's things like we brought our COAs for all of our products. And I'll show you internal analysis as well as third-party analysis, because we keep quality control pretty tight in the products that we have. Say, for instance, this will be considered an internal analysis. It's third-party, but this laboratory is associated with our manufacturer. And so third-party analysis would be one that has nothing to do with the manufacturer. It's almost like a quality control or a quality assurance type of thing so that there's no possibility that there's an error or any kind of collusion. I mean, that's a good word to use these days. Everybody uses collusion. This is just checks and balances. As I was saying before, our laboratory has ISO 17.025, most manufacturing laboratories that are at a higher level of standardization when it comes to full spectrum or broad spectrum products that are bottled and sold to the public. What about these edibles that are made here? Yes. How do we know that the butter that they make or the edibles, how do we know whether that... It's a little difficult, too, because you also have to test... It's like with the dispensary system. We test from seed to sale here in this state, right? So you have to know the quality of the seed. Then you have to test the plant after it's been flowered, right? Then when it's time to make your product, you have to test the quality of the product after the product is made to make sure that there's no toxins in the product. And then you have to test it. I think they test it one more time before they're able to actually sell it. So it goes to a third... But that's if it's already packaged. But now we know people are making stuff. Absolutely. How do we know? It's difficult to know because you have to trust the person who's preparing it, knows the level of TAC or CBD content in this plant. So if they're not getting their product tested, you have no way of knowing the amount of milligrams per milliliter how much CBD or TAC is in their product. So it's really up to the integrity of the manufacturer. Okay, now I've read so many labels, and some of them have flowers, you know, regular plants in them. And what about those? Do they have to be tested, too? In the state of Hawaii, they do, as far as I know. So if you have lily-coi, for instance, or... Whichever flavor. Whatever flavor you want. When you add that to the CBD... Does it enhance it? Does it? I don't know, that's what I'm asking. Okay, all right. I'm asking, or does that just do for flavor or...? If we're dealing with terpenes, to ask the first question, it's kind of up to if you decide, and if you're going to sell this in the open market to the public, or is this a very consumption at home? If you're making your own butter, it's up to you to make sure you get it tested, maybe at a steep hill, to see what the potency and what is the contaminant in it before you make your butter. Products that are made here, edible products that are made here, we're not able to make edible products and sell to the public. So whether that's tested or not, you should be concerned still. That's kind of a great market area. We're fighting for that because consumption is a big deal when it comes to dosage, and edibles are a good way to consume, but we have to get an internal analysis or a standardization of what we can say is safe and what's not. But I guess if you're buying it from a dispensary, they're already... Yes, their analysis is pretty tight. Oh, definitely that. So for a child, let's say for epilepsy, and they wanted something to... Like a throat, nostril, or cough drop, something like that, they do offer. They do have edible choices there, but we don't have the full array that you may see in other states and other dispensary markets. But, and then when you talk about adding flavors, we're talking about terpenes at that point. And terpenes are another form of medicinal compound that are inside other than the cannabinoids that adds to flavor or adds to odor or smell to the formulation. What they've have found is terpenes do have a medical usage. It's really good at reducing anxiety and some other things. So I mean, we're here at this point to where COA is gonna be required if you're gonna sell to the public. You know, whatever you're doing in your home, that's up to you, you know what I mean? But if you're putting yourself in danger, hopefully you can find someone, you can call Camel, to ask what are you doing safe and what's not safe? That was my next question there, telling you, okay, you got a card, you can have 10 plants. Oh, sure I can. Okay, now I got these plants and I'm growing them. Now what do I do? You know, how do I get it from the plant to something that I can use? And then, even if I figure that out, do I still have to have it tested? Yes, be safe. That's all I can say is, if when you're consuming a product that you're not really familiar with, be safe because of contaminant and also be safe because of the level of dosage you're taking. Some people get into an uncomfortable situation when they either have a bowl that they're not familiar with the dosage and then they maybe have an elevated, you know what I'm saying, effect that they're not comfortable with. Feel safe, but in the fact that, you know, if you get too high for an extended period of time, you may think anxiety might very rise, you know? Oh. You must see, you might raise your anxiety. But I mean, okay, I would have to assume that the dispensary would have some kind of level of tracking what's here, what's this, what's this. And they do. But I'm talking about all, what seems to be on the news is all of this, you know, ABC store selling CBD. I know there's a service station on, oh, over here, and it's selling, you know? So it's everywhere. So what do we, how do we know? I was not, you know, I was feeling really pretty secure about all of this. Yes. From the time I met you. Yes. And then after watching the news and seeing people get sick and all kinds of strange things. And that's the difference. I mean, when we met, when we first started talking about CBD and I was first telling you that we have a certificate of analysis in our laboratories, the FDA certified laboratories, we meet above the standard of most states asking. And so when we were talking about that, that all makes sense because that's all true. But when you have people who are not necessarily living up to that standard or their products are nowhere near that standard, they're gonna say it is to sell. Okay, well we need to take a break. And when we come back, we'll talk some more about, I want you to take the stuff, but I want it to be safe. Okay, we'll be right back. Aloha, I'm Stan Osterman, Stan the energy man on every Friday here on Think Tech Hawaii. If you're really interested in finding out what's going on in energy, especially here in Hawaii, but also all the way around the world, and especially if it has to do with hydrogen, look into Stan the energy man every Friday, 12 o'clock, Think Tech Hawaii, either. Aloha. Aloha, my name is Wendy Lowe, and I want you to join me as we take our health back. On my show, all we do is talk about things in everyday life, in Hawaii or abroad. I have guests on board that would just talk about different aspects of health in every way, whether it's medical health, nutritional health, diabetic health, you name it, we'll talk about it, even financial health. We'll even have some of the Miss Hawaii's on board, and all the different topics that I feel will make your health and your lifestyle a lot better. So come join me. I welcome you to take your health back. Mahalo. Aloha, I'm Marcia Joyner, and we're back. And we're talking about cannabis and this new wave of needing to be certified. I guess being certified of medicine isn't new about being certified, but we've seen all of this, all the craziness that's going on. Tell me real quick, what about vaping? People with lung issues, and I don't understand vaping. So talk to me. I've noticed the biggest issue with the vaping seems to be that they're unsure how to properly vape. Vaping is similar to smoking cigarette, and what the patients are coming down with are inhalation burn. It's not specifically to CBD or cannabis, anything like that. Just any kind of vaping. Right, so smoking cigarettes, if you're huffing cigarettes or cigars, you should smoke too long, take a long drag, temperature goes up. So you're damaging your air passageways. So you're seeing our people who are vaporizing oil, oil's a little thicker than water, so essentially they're damaging their airways with this thick oil, it's way too hot. And it's because they don't understand their hot end up, you call it the batteries, their vaping. The temperature at which the substance is burned is very important. It's burning at a higher temperature. There's some things burning inside that vaping? Yes, there's a heating element in it. There's different forms of heating elements. Some of them give off carcinogens like the wick. Like there's a candle light wick that's inside some of them. There's a heating element that's made of harmful metals sometimes when you get the bootleg versions of it. But what we tell people to subscribe to is the ceramic vaping element or the heating element or either the titanium. But there's a heating element in them. What is jewel? That's something totally different. That's dealing with tobacco and nicotine. Jewel is not a brand of vaping. It's a brand of cigarette or nicotine. They call it jewel because that's the after-ice or the company that's representing that brand. Vaping is a way they do that. They have other substances. Okay, so vaping is the process of? It's the bristle process. It's almost like a delivery process for the medication. Okay. But, and it has oil and that's what burns the lungs? The, like steam burns when you're cooking. They're very similar to that. They're turning up the temperature on the vaporizers, which in turn causes a larger cloud effect. So they're probably burning for shows because people smoke and like to blow smoke rings, things like that. In turn, right, because they're hopping up the temperature, they're damaging their lungs. And I'm assuming that what it is that the younger generations aren't being educated properly on why patients are vaping. Maybe they're seeing somebody smoking and they think this is just what we do, you know? They don't actually know that they're medicating. So it's more, so at least I'm seeing more so patient education and proper educational on how and why they're vaping to prevent a lot of those injuries. But now, okay, so we understand that that's a method that's used by the dispensaries. But what, now that it's moved out of the dispensary and into the public, do they know what they're inhaling? No, that's a big problem, is synthetics. Synthetics are a huge part of our market. The issues are the unsafe delivery of medications. One, you have the heating elements that may open it up, present a problem of course it is. There's a heating element inside the thing. You also have the formulation. It's a heating element inside the apparatus. But also the oil or the product that you're vaping can have carcinogens in it because of synthetics. The manufacturer is not counting on you to vape that successfully. I mean, they will take that claim that, you know, this is what you should do and they'll have instructions for that. But most of them will bootleg it and hope that you have a better outcome but you see what's in the media today. There's even some deaths that are attributed to synthetics. This is just like when you have spice and bath salts. Those are synthetic forms of materials that people are using from this one. They don't know any better. What did you say they were? Like Spike 99, the spice. Spice. Synthetic cannabis, pretty much. You can, you used to be able to buy those at retail, head shops and things like that or pipe shops, along with, what is that? Satis, salvia, like salvia, things like that, hallucinogens. But the synthetic products are what is harming our public and that's what we have to get a grip on. That's what the FDA is mainly saying with my safe products. That's why I asked you to come because it's all over the news. And that's why I asked you to come to talk about what's safe and what's not safe. Stick with the botanical, stick with the organic growers. Stick with, I mean, if you don't know anything about anything, Google can be a good friend. I mean, if you Google how to read a certificate of analysis or COA or cannabis or TAC or CBD because we need to inform the public they have the power on their hand right there in their cell phone or on their computers, on the internet. So we want an encouragement to do that until the health department has the convenience or the capacity to do more, to educate more. Well, would the health department educate? Really? They haven't so far. Camo can. Yeah, Camo will definitely show. I know you will. And that's why we're here. Yes, yes. I was saying in the future, they're looking towards this, but of course they're waiting for FDA and other federal regulations. Now you know the health department and you were at the hearing where they've got all of this equipment and they don't have people, they don't have technicians. Unfortunately, I don't know how to figure that problem out. It's a budget problem. That's a hiring, that's the state. The state has to hire them. There's a huge demand for students that want to come to this industry to help improve the opportunities. Like when you hear them say we don't have enough money for research, we don't have enough research being done to prove out some of these conditions that instead of making a medical claim, we want to make clinical proof that these things are having better patient outcomes. But now you're doing some research. Tell us about what kind of research your company is doing. Yes, well, we hosted Dr. Sue Sissley here not long ago, back in September, for our event in the 329 Better Understand Down. And so as an extension of the study, she's completed. She's recognized the only person that has PHDMD that has successfully that FDA-approved clinical trial with cannabis use for PTSD or reducing the symptoms of PTSD in veterans. So we want to definitely try and partner with her or do an extension studies with her. Let her lead that protocol because now that it's successfully done, there's a protocol that can be duplicated in many efforts. But also on the CBD side of the thing, we would like to approach a person like a doctor. Yes, I mean her who has done successful studies much like Dr. Sissley, but only with CBD and PTSD and opiate use disorder. And so our area really is to maintain a database of patients and start to encourage patients to enroll in databases to make themselves available to get proper medication or a certified medication. And also to be able to learn how to dose and get that education. And so they can understand what this medicine is gonna do for their body or their condition. So now, am I right about saying that CBD and THC, whichever form you have, can bring you ease you down from opiate dependency. Is that correct? Did I say that right? Yes, there's definitely some benefits to it. There's benefits as far as cravings or withdrawal effects. Yes. It's gonna reduce those. We've seen that successfully. And I would encourage people to Google Dr. Sue Sissley. Google Dr. Yasmeen heard. Watch CNN Weed 1, 2, 3, 4, and I think 5 now. Very informative. It's a very informative approach with Dr. ... What's the gentleman's name? This man. Oh, man. Sajee Gupta. Oh, go, yes. Sajee Gupta, CNN Correspondent. He was one of the opponents leading, but now he's all the way forward because he was encouraged to do his research. And those five episodes of CNN Weed are very, very helpful to understand COA, to understand what the market is doing, where it's going and who's doing the actual research. We're trying to encourage the UH Cancer Center, Don A. Burns, Queens Hospital, and anybody that has research capacity to partner with us, we can start looking more into this because if the only excuse to progress is we don't have enough research, I think we have plenty of opportunities to do research in Hawaii. I can't imagine why we don't have enough research. I mean, that seems like a week. It's federal. A lot of people have federal funding, and they don't want anything to interfere with the fund. They can't touch it, yes. People don't understand that, but that's just why Camel is building towards that capacity. Yes. We don't get any federal funding. We would hope in the future to have some federal funding being a 501c3, but working with the state and completing a registry of veterans and others, they can come in. Anybody that has a qualified condition, as you know, we're trying to add opioid use disorder to the qualified conditions. You know, the people who have their 329 cars for the last eight to 10 years, we owe them something besides just the education piece. We need to show them, you know, actually and clinically, what this medicine is doing for your body. And so, but now, of course, the VA is a problem. Well, the VA is a problem because of Uncle Sam. The VA is, I wouldn't say they are a problem. They need to update their... Yeah, but they still love Uncle Sam. Yeah, well, of course, they are Uncle Sam. We are Uncle Sam. Yes, that is Uncle Sam. There's a category, but fortunately, we do have a research center and research and development center out there at the VA here. And so, there may be an open-door opportunity. We're looking at approaching their Institution Review Board, which is their clinical staff that actually looks at what research they would like to participate in. So, maybe we'll have an angle with them here pretty soon. Well, that's great. Because they just, well, as you know, they just write prescriptions for opioids and, you know, the guy says, well, I'm not doing so well here. Take some more. Yes. And that's what contributes to their lackluster approach to candidacies because if opioids, which are after they're approved, have kind of put them in position to be responsible or liable for death, for suicide, for any type of form of side effect or withdrawal symptom or addiction, I would say that they should approach things a little different. But because we're dealing with botanical medicines, I think we should have the opportunity to go forward. And we have the safest medicine known. Yes, because they approve alcohol and there's nothing worse than that. And they approve cigarettes and cigars and that's pretty bad, yeah. I think, especially because Hawaii has such a big holistic medical component to it, whether that's clinical-based or whether that's patient-based, I think we're gonna have an excellent time in the future. Yes. Well, you know, it's always a pleasure having you here. And I learned so much from you two over the couple of years we've been doing this show. And so you're gonna come back and keep us informed on the progress and see how you do with the research because that's a vital piece of this. That's the next big step. As the next big step. Well, thank you so much for coming and we will see you next time.