 And now, we're going to be moving on to our first panel discussion. Well, it is time for a very intriguing panel discussion joined by top marketers of most esteemed brands, and they will be discussing about how TV works in multi-screen world. Well, let's give a huge round of applause, ladies and gentlemen, as we welcome on the stage and screen. First up, Mr. Ajay Dal, joint executive president, head marketing ultra tech cement. Mr. Anil Vishwanathan, senior director of marketing chocolates, insights and analytics, Mondeleezatir. Mr. Deba Ghushal, vice president and head of marketing, Bolt House Limited. Mr. Sujata V. Kumar, head of marketing for India and South Asia Visa. Mr. Sriram Padmanabhan, marketing director at Danone India. Ms. Anusha Gupta, senior global marketing manager at Shwell, and this session will be chaired by Ms. Vanita Keshwani, CEO, Madison Media Sigma, Madison World. Well, ladies and gentlemen, on the other side of this panel discussion, we're going to be joined by Mr. Sunil Lula, CEO of Baal Kinda, who's going to be talking on how TV is the screen of the household. But right now, let's dwell into this very interesting topic. Thank you all once again for joining us. I can see such great smiles, and we hope that the energy is getting fast to all the ones who are viewing us live. With this, I'd now like to pass on the live built into our session share, Vanita Keshwani, to take it forward. Thank you. Thank you, Bhavna. Can everyone hear me well? Yes. Yes, loud and clear. Wonderful. Thanks, Deva. So welcome, each one of you. Let's today have a good discussion around this whole piece on TV and multimedia screen. So I'd like to start with putting a context of how the typical traditional linear Ada model was all along that we awareness, intent, desire, and all of that versus the, is it really so linear? And hence, how do we see the role of TV versus any other medium, not just digital, all the other mediums put together through the funnel planning? And hence, that's exactly the multi-screen world we're talking about. So in the multi-screen world, how do we see the whole model of the consumer behavior? Is it linear? Or how has it changed? And hence, how do you really look at it? This will just give us a starting point for just telling each of your, I think each of the panelists can go one by one. I don't need to invite anyone. You can just go on. Whoever wants to go first, please. I'll take it that first. I think this TV has shifted from a TV to a connected TV. I think CTV is what we're looking at right now. So there's a combination of multiple devices which you're talking about. And you're absolutely right when we need to cut across all these devices to be engaged with the viewer. So I think from CRTs, which we used to have once of our time, being in industry for a long time, almost 20, 25 years in electronics and durables, the TV industry has not shrunk. It's just changed its devices. And that proves the point that people would like to watch TV and would like to watch content on TV. But the devices have multiplied over a period of time. So that's more important to be connected across all the devices when you create your story and to create a messaging. So that's something we need to remember, that TV will not go anywhere. They will be connected TVs. There will be smart TVs. And there will be multiple devices. There will be boxes. There will be sticks. There will be many other things around you. And you need to integrate them all together to create that story which is wide enough to reach a wider audience. That's my take on that question. Thanks, Debaba. If the panelists would touch upon the consumer journey which I mentioned, like how do you see the linear versus, you know, how does it change the way the consumer looks at things? Yeah. Vanita, if I can just take it. I just want to, I think, I agree with, I think the model of advertising that we've always thought of, of either, I think just being an aid to selling or just passing on a piece of information, a feature, a message across to your audience. I think that is a very limiting definition in that sense of the word. And I was hearing, I think, the earlier analyst and I think somewhere you should have mentioned in one of his earlier conversations elsewhere is that it's almost like distributing your visiting cards to a million people. If that were the only role that this is what I stand for, this is my message, these are five features that I work for. I think we are negating that whole sense of what fame stands for, what advertising stands for, what building trust and having a relationship with the customer, because they buy for a million reasons, right? And not all of them are playing straightforward that I'm checking boxes and therefore I need to buy a piece of a product or a service. And therefore, I think before we get to the definition of any medium and how does it work, I think the first basic question that we need to ask as advertisers, marketers and business people more importantly, I think what are we trying to achieve and get that definition right in our head as to what are we trying to do with quote unquote, advertising, engagement, content, all of those pieces put together. I think that's, I think first and more fundamental. Absolutely, rightly put that's what I'm saying, like the item model was all along, it was always been, television has been more an awareness medium. Now today, how do we see that going? And more in the multi-screen world, not that it's no longer an awareness medium but do we see changes in that? And very rightly, Ajay, I think you pointed out that it's not just about ticking the box and it's not just about informing them. So that's what I'm wanting to get more to hear from and others can also chip in. In terms of how you see television moving beyond doing the basic regular, I think even in the previous panel, Bharat made a point that it's sad to see the TVCs that he's seen are very tacky and in IPL because of course, sometimes the increasing costs and we want to make it in a very short duration and in a digitized and low attention span world. So, I mean, is it only awareness? And where do we see awareness working and where do we see other, through the funnel planning jobs that television can do? If any of you have something to say? If I may just add to Bharat's point and I was listening to that, it's a very interesting point because I think here is the biggest stage that you are being given of in the country as far as television is concerned, right? As far as advertising mediums is concerned. And if all that you're going to use is the same run of mill communication that is being kind of put together by all other mediums, then I think it's a wasted opportunity. The piece of signaling that you are the largest brand in the largest property in the country and gathering so much fame quote unquote at one goal, it's a missed opportunity if people are running just the same features stuff and like you Bharat only mentioned that whether it was, whether you know that it was Dhoni or Ranveer Singh but what's the product, what's the category I don't care? I think just getting into the conversation. Yes, Anil please. Manita and hello everybody. I think to your first question, I think the truth is that journeys are no longer linear. Absolutely. No longer are we in a phase where we say that awareness comes first and then interest and then desire and then people try and then give feedback. It's all gotten very complex. We're also seeing funnels dramatically shrink. We're also seeing in some cases, people starting with experience or starting with kind of the bottom of the funnel kind of trying your product and then coming back up. So I think and in this multi-screen world where people encounter your brand, whether they encounter you on a e-commerce site or whether they encounter you on a social media site and all of that is getting very complex. And hence I think fundamentally we no longer are in a place where we can think in separate buckets and I think that's what Deba and Ajay is also saying that we have to take kind of an integrated approach. I think in addition to the integrated approach, identify the tasks and objectives. That's again the second part. And the third is to think about how we want to make a measure outcomes. And again, understanding that outcomes per se again will not be linear. And hence how do we work with the ecosystem so that it gets signals from different directions that allow you to think in a more integrated fashion. So I think the need of the R is thinking more integrated. The need of the R is to assume that you're not going linear. And then start looking at the various points where consumers are coming in and going out. How can we collect that data and help us influence and address those points of entry? Hang on. To that extent, however, awareness still remains a large part of what we are here for and where we spend our dollars. Yes. And in that context, building awareness for our brands in a distinctive meaningful way still is the most important bit. And TV is a central place. So in many ways, much as things change, the role of the TV hasn't changed, but just the perspective in the way we plan has changed. Sure. Yeah. If I can actually add to Anil, totally echo that. So basically, we are clearly living in a multi-screen world. I don't think there's a question about that. What's interesting is that TV still remains dominant as everyone in the panel has said and before this because finally it provides the reach which no other medium can. I think as marketers, the challenge to us is to say beyond, because it provides the reach, let's not just go with mass messaging to get that reach, but how do we actually tailor it? Because what you see happening these days is a lot of brands, we use TV to give the mass message and then we do the personalization or the customization where we go to digital. And therefore, how do we take that further? And I think there are three things that we need to sort of quickly touch upon when we do multi-screen marketing. And the first is to know your audience because for example, the youth today, they consume news and information on digital. We know that. Let's approach them there. However, if you take a large scale sporting event, people still come to TV. So how do we make content that's relevant there which is beyond mass reach? And how do you tailor content? Because yes, you can get the wide reach there but how do you also use tech? And that's one of the points I think we'll touch on later but how do you use tech in the TV world? And as a brand, we've done that. And finally, how do you use your analytics? Finally, we finally all have a budget that we have to live it. And we're always struggling because how much to put on TV and how much to put on digital and social. So how do you use your analytics to make sure that your channel selection is balancing between awareness generation and actually the information that's relevant to that consumer you want to talk to? Thanks, Sajjata. Anyone else would like to speak? Otherwise she's led me to two parts which we can take and in fact, I think the previous person also said the same. Anil also said the same thing on measurability and I think you brought up analytics and I think a very important point that comes on KPI setting. Gone are the days when it was only GRP and reach and frequency planning. And gone are the days also that we had certain ways of taking the reach and frequency and GRPs. So one aspect is, is it only GRPs reach frequency? And obviously it's not, but I'd like to hear what each one of you has done in your brands. And if it is not just GRP and in that very point when you say GRP reach frequency, I think most of us on this call, I think all most brands have moved from TV planning to AV planning, which is essentially, OTT planning done along with television to look at multimedia reach. So what has been your experience of at all? And the second one is the other KPIs. Like what are some of the other KPIs that you all have measured if you all could touch upon these two points, please. So Vanita, hi. First of all, good afternoon, Sriram. Yeah, hi. Had two fellow analysts as well. Yes, yes. Just one point and since I've been in the health and nutrition space for a long time, and we have seen a lot of changes in the last 12 months. So one of the key things which also sort of leads into the mattresses is, so what we have seen and what I've seen over a period of time is that a lot of incremental sales comes from non-users of the category or what we say the infrequent users of the category. Generally, my experience has been that it's very hard to push consumption. So somebody who's already consuming a certain amount, they don't consume more, but somebody who's infrequent, that is where the incremental sales comes in. And that is where I find TV being a salient medium, trying reaching out to a large section of people or consistently over a period of time, having the largest output as far as incremental sales is concerned. Not to say that, of course, there is role of digital as well, but I think it also boils down to the fact who we are going to attract. So for example, the other pieces that if somebody is already right down at the bottom of the funnel, even if you try to convince them that your product or your service is better, they might have already made up their mind and you're just burning dollars to someone who has already or he or she's just looking for some confirmation bars. So I think there also comes from that fact that who we are trying to attract. Is it somebody who uses you, who somebody is not using this category? And that is where I feel that, or I certainly believe that TV has a lot of incremental value to attract the infrequent users. Absolutely, I think new users versus use-up is a very commonly marketing known principle. I think in most categories and brands, we all believe new users are always going to work better than use-up. So a very good point. That's the new users. I hear you say that television makes the best sense because obviously it's got the most mass reach, but any points there by other people on the panel that obviously the other way to look at it is that light TV viewers would be found on digital or on any other medium for that matter. So any views on that from others? I think it's a lot on the context. I think all of us have a category context where the kind of products we market varies by context. And even within the context, I think we have a portfolio of products that we manage and there are some bits where we know that the user base or the way we would define the consumption segment may influence the choices we make. So depending on how niche or how focused our specific product we're talking about. So when I think about dark chocolate, my ability to target a non-user in a more effective way which is much more easier in digital for me to go. I mean, one is to say a non-user, the other is to define who is he and finding out what kind of, how do I get those attributes through which I can target them in a more personalized way. That's what digital can do. On the contrary, on large brands, absolutely right. I mean, I guess all of us, none of us would go against loss of growth, right? I mean, I guess, I mean, hence in that sense, it's quite simple, Vanita. I don't think it's about a complex maths of saying, there are multiple KPIs. One plus weekly rich, I mean, I don't think, I don't think you need to go far away from there and then go right down to the end of the funnel and do a MMM to know whether you're impacting sale. I mean, you just need those both in my sense to know whether you're able to attribute a one plus reach to sale. I mean, everything else is kind of a optimization metric, but you want to see ROI on sale, right? And actually on revenue. So I would, I mean, for me, those two KPIs are the biggest ones. Anil, I think Monlis is of course, known for doing a lot of MMM. I don't know about everybody on the panel. Of course, some others, we all try to do that, but I think we worked with you so we know how much MMMs we do. But I think besides MMM and the starting point which you mentioned, Rich, what about the new buzzword, which is BSQs, which is the brand search queries that very simply put, we look at, how any experience is there? Yeah, I can actually go. So as you know, in the last year, when we went into lockdown, everyone had to move from cash to cashless, right? Nobody wanted to take cash. We were locked down at home. People had to learn to use e-com, for example, the tier two consumers. So we were really wondering how to do this. And we actually found here is where actually TV plus others played a role. Because actually to get consumers aware that you can access the e-com and you can use the internet to do your purchases, which people were really did not know how to do it. And I'm not talking about people like you and me, but people at the next round. So that was really accomplished through TV. We got awareness, we got rich. But what you're talking about the queries, we got so many people wanting to know, is it safe? Is it secure? Will my bank account get compromised? How safe is Visa? So those type of things, we found that we had to use the plus, the funnels, the other funnels too, and answer the question. So what we found out what really worked, that was that we would use TV and we would give a large message. Of course, talk about security and safety because that's important. But actually we would communicate, go online, go cashless there. And then in these, with digital and social, then we would actually use use cases. So the two largest use cases during lockdown was on online delivery for groceries and online delivery for food. So actually step by step telling people how to do it, how to pay, how secure your things are. And one thing I must say, consumers when they come online, they look for a sweetener. So we would always end the online part with an offer, whether it was Swiggy on food or Amazon on deliveries. But there is something where we could not have done an isolation. We couldn't have only done TV and we couldn't have only done the digital and social, it worked together. And we saw huge growths during that period because it was a necessity that people had. Anita, I had a slightly different point of view and I think I might, see we, and I call it sorry for sounding too conspiracy minded, but I think these are, we fall into often fall into, I think metrics and traps being set for us are framing of the CFOs that is being set. I think end of the day as business people, as marketers, what are we trying to achieve? We are trying to achieve first and foremost effectiveness. And then come the metrics that we talk in terms of efficiency. We are trying to balance it out and say allocate and those kinds of stuff. Unfortunately, I think, and it's got to do with how digital has marketed itself. It's got to do with within boardrooms how often CFOs and CEOs have asked us this question of therefore how many leads and therefore how much sales and therefore, et cetera, those kind of efficiency metrics. Now, because of that, I think we tilt hugely and I think possibly disproportionately towards efficiency thinking and balancing what we call various metrics that we talked about is KV planning and those kinds of things. I think sometimes losing the plot in terms of the big thing, which is the effectiveness piece. We, for example, don't do advertising quote unquote, traditional sense of advertising on digital at all. We use digital hugely, but that's largely to talk to our customers and talk to our influencers in terms of the jobs to be done that they need to do and how do we support them and how do we help them with that? That's something TV cannot do, right? And at the same time, that entire stage here, that entire build up that fame and if we are putting the proposition that if you're going to build your home only once and it's a reversible process, use the best, that stage of work, I'm not so sure can be done going to 20 million people one at a time. So I think the first piece that as marketers we need to answer and business people as we need to answer is the effectiveness question. Then come to the efficiency question because I believe, and sorry for using that word, we falling into a conspiracy and metrics and framing that many CFOs and more importantly, I think the digital world has set up for us in terms of looking at things in a certain fashion. But so how do you measure effectiveness, Ajay? I'll go with Ajay completely on that, completely on that because I'll take a step back and say that, see, what are we discussing? We're discussing TV as a medium, right? There are two things about this. TV as a medium, can it build a story around your brand? That's what we discussed in the last session, the discussion, that how do we use TV to engage the audience, right? How do you measure that? You measure that with the brand, like you don't measure with its only sales. How has the brand grown over a period of time through television? And there are many stories which have been told across many years, which have created brands for many people, for many manufacturers. The second thing about what we need to discuss is TV as a medium. And we need to, I think demarcate these two things so that discussion is in a meaningful way, way towards the right direction. So if you're talking about TV as a medium, yes, TV has to integrate itself along with other opportunities, like digital law, like any other stuff. And we use it purely from a brand perspective. We don't use it from a sales perspective. We use digital from a sales perspective. We used to use print earlier from a sales perspective. The most high-profile brands and most high-ticket items in the terrible basket use, you still use print from a sales perspective. So we need to be clear about what we're trying to measure. But having said that, what we have witnessed in the last two decades of turning around the brand is the fact that TV is a must to build a story around technology. Without television, we couldn't have built stories, right, from a turnaround story of India, Kathmandu Nagyasi, to the multi-campaign thanks to, will be, to many of the campaigns we've created. Television was the best, I think, platform to build those stories. I don't think digital can build those stories for us because the audience is very fragmented, spans are very limited. If we want to build a story alone, difficult on digital. It has to, together we build a television digital and all of us, medium, possibly available to us. That's my take on that. I think it also depends on category. Building stories on, I think the reverse also holds. Building story on digital has been like a big thing for many brands that they do. So I think, like Anil rightly, sorry. But how long do the stories survive? Tell me a story on digital which has survived for more than two months. So, the best of class, like the Google story and the, I think- Yeah, yeah, there are exceptions, but I want to say, see, that's a debate. Television brings your longevity in terms of a story type of exercise. Digital is very good. That's another very good point. That's a pro, I would say, of television, that it, classically, television stays on. So the whole elasticity and the whole, the whole concept of- That can stay on for years. Yeah, staying on peace, of course, to that extent sometimes- And the residual impact of the story. We are based for three months and we get an impact for one year. Because- That could be also perhaps Deva because we are more patient with TV. Yeah, we're very used to seeing ads on TV. We don't mind sitting back and watching the ads because we're technically used to that. And digital the moment it comes up, you feel, oh my God, let me press that button. I didn't want this. Anita, let me take an example. About a third of our business, for example, is B2B, right? Sure. Now, I can use LinkedIn and Google and all before you want. How do I price that when my sales guy, he calls a company and versus calls another company, he has the right of passage and he has the right of getting through and talking to the right stakeholders and the other guy in the category doesn't, right? I can use all the efficiency metrics that I can put together. But how do you cost that? And the point being that I think all that is meaningful and measurable. I think we've got to try and because I think we've got to be prudent for our stakeholders, we've got to measure and we've got to optimize and all of that stuff. But all that is meaningful is not, I think we've got to use common sense far more than some of the other metrics. I was not mainly only efficiency for sure. So when you say effectiveness, how do you measure it? Then again, you come back to brand parameters, right? And hardware sales, of course, is one thing. But again, that's not what you're necessarily always tracking. If you grow your share in the market, market share and sales, right? Market share is something which is a fundamental parameter for measuring effectiveness for us. And if our investments are not getting, leading into any kind of market share, the investments are not good. And like many other categories in the West, I think India is a penetration country, right? Half the categories that we sell are penetration categories. And there it's not just about selling features and reaching out to people. It's also about convincing, framing, various other things. I think if I can just add, Hi, if I can just add, I think to us, what would matter is not just about market share. I think the way we look at evaluating success, it is about being competitive. Yes, of course, which is market share. But it's also about being responsible. I think that's a big pillar that responsibility, which is in the sustainable front. I think it's about being competitive. It's about being sustainable in a more responsible way. And I think it's also about being profitable, of course, at the end, how are your cross margins performing versus the market share? But I think it's important to add an angle of responsible advertising, responsible leadership in marketing, because all the panellists today are among the top countries, advertisers. And it's very important that you are responsible as well in the way you communicate and what you communicate going forward. I actually completely agree with you, Anusha. And I think it's very important for every category, which is rightly said, because you are, what we're saying is, for example, in our category, we're dealing with people's finances. That's the most important thing to them. So it's not only about market share. Of course, market share is important, but how do you, and especially in categories where people need to be educated, I think that time or that effort taken to educate is also very important. And I think that's where, for example, where you use a TV plus at Rootworks, because for example, you can actually retarget people on digital and give them additional messages that's relevant to them. An older man versus a youth in college, different messages, and that's where we do. So which is why I say it's really TV, absolutely at the base, but with plus plus to give the right messages and to be responsible citizens at the end. I think if I can just give a very good example that comes to mind on responsible marketing, it is a recent one which LifeBoy has been doing. Ever since COVID times, the brand, actually it's an amazing case to keep reading on and keep feeling proud as an organization, because I think what they did was, they moved from saying use LifeBoy to saying use LifeBoy or any other soap, because these are important times. And as a brand, you need to raise your, raise people's awareness on the need to hand wash more than just kind of waving about your brand, but that has actually led us to become the leaders today in the country. And it actually speaks so highly of a brand that is so confident of itself and is responsibly marketing rather than just hopping on saying, you must wash hands with LifeBoy. So I think- Can I ask you how did TV versus the other mediums work for this campaign? Of course we do a lot of TV, but long format, some of these ads need long format advertising and that's where digital comes very well into play. And I think what's important is, I don't disagree that this is my personal view. I don't disagree that TV will be the mass reach, right? There is no doubt on that. But I think we as marketeers have to accept and integrate a second screen into our plans, whether we like it or not, because with COVID, the consumer has almost sped fast at a speed which was, we were hoping as marketeers in another five years or 10 years, but they've actually come so quickly to accept and adjust to the new norms of the Ecom world. That it's amazing today, even like an LSM three to five knows how to go online and shop for a knife or a plate online. And she actually now knows that if I go on digital, I can buy a crockery set for like 400 rather than going to the supermarket and buying it for like a 800 or a thousand. So I think- That's the most it's outside the shop, stand outside the shop and check the cost of it. So I think we need to look at it in a very positive way and not look at it that it's an either or. It's not an either or. I think the point is that while TV gives you mass reach, I think the online medium and the whole social commerce is giving you an opportunity to amplify your reach, amplify it, get people to actually close the deal because at the end, you do want to know how many people are finally, how much that ad is influencing. Of course, you have your ratings to measure how effective your TV plan is. But I think when we look at the second screen, for instance, we have seen there's enough data that supports that people who are using multi-screens like I'm on my mobile phone and I'm watching TV, I'm watching an ad, I'm less likely to change the channel when an ad comes if I am already busy with my mobile. And at the same time, there is enough data that supports that there is no loss of brand ad, of ad recognition, you know, when you are actually playing or using your mobile for other like social networking and all. There's also enough evidence that shows that if I'm looking at an interesting ad, say if I'm in skincare, I look at this really new launch of an anti-aging product and I immediately Google it more to look at the cost or look at the, or ask my friend, I'm on WhatsApp and I'll say, hey, have you seen this product? You know, have you tried it? So I think there is a lot more engagement that you can build an amplification that you can build by actually accepting the second screen into your marketing plan. And we've seen a lot of success with that. No, sure, I think all of us are very much aligned on television alone, not being the case and all that. But I think it's nice to get some inputs from all of you in terms of what are your experiences. Like you just said that long format was what you use more for the Lifebuy campaign. So was it only long format? Or is there like some ratio, like for example, the market may be at the 20 to 30% digital soon, 30% maybe. So is there some kind of a thing that, you know, in my category, I look at typical brand advertising as X% and I layer that with long format or whatever. Even if you don't want to disclose exact numbers, but what's the broad thinking? Is it like zero on basic advertising and same TVC on digital or is it a mix of both? Anusha, for the Lifebuy campaign, yeah. I think it's a mix of both, it's a mix of both. I used to work on Lifebuy, I don't work on Lifebuy anymore, it's one of my most dearest brands and therefore I spoke about it because it's very relevant in COVID. But what I want to say is that it's a mix. Definitely TV is not going to be displaced by any time soon. I'm not asking TV, I'm asking within digital, the TVC ads on digital, TV, digital is a, I mean, there's no discussion. That's the panel discussion in itself. We all know TV is not isolation. The questions where I'm hoping to address today and get some nice insights are how you all are using it innovatively together. The question of being together is given. So like Anil just mentioned, like on one brand dark chocolate, how it's a very nice insight to have, right? Like simple insight but a good insight. Similarly, now you just get an insight like a long format on digital. So I'm probing that further to ask people that how much of a TVC branding campaign, TVC doesn't mean television, TVC meaning the ad TVC, how do you put on digital and how much do you create separately for digital which is long format or whatever that means or social media, whatever. So that kind of. So I'll just take that question. I'll just take that, wanna go ahead? I'll go after you, no problem. Okay, fine. I think it's not a question of TVC or DVC or whatever content you want to create for various opportunities that you have. As long as your proposition as long as your core messaging is the same, you could create different, I would say content for different opportunities. So it's more important to be consistent in what you're communicating. There are brands which communicate differently on television and differently on digital which makes no sense at all because they feel that I am trying to categorize different segments by talking in a different way to a different audience and I would like talking in a different way to a different audience and that doesn't make sense. I think it's more important to appreciate the core proposition and tweak the message in a different way for digital and television and that should work better. Tangentially speaking, it won't work because your messaging has to be together. For example, for our new Volta's decor range of appliances, we stick to the core proposition of moms, right? Of mothers and of the family. And we try to tweak the message in such a way that when you go on television it's a little different. When you go on digital television, it's different. So it depends on what you're on yourself of audiences you're speaking to. So coming back to the main point, how is your proposition made powerful in a meaningful way, keeping in mind the medium you're using? That's what we keep in mind. Sure, so what is the difference in your film on digital? With the same messaging, Deba, what is the difference that you put in your films on digital? See, on digital it was more about the family and on television more about the individual. It was other way around. Oh, okay. That's interesting because you see the TV's family and... Yeah, it was other way around. Okay. Sajata, you were saying something. Yeah, Vanita, in direct answer to your question. So we actually split, I would actually say it split half-half. We take content that we put on TV and we also put that on social and digital because the understanding is that everybody sees it on TV. So you have to put that mass content on TV and digital. So that's aired largely on YouTube and some other platforms. And then what we do is we also create more personalized content that we put on social and digital only. That doesn't go on mass. But within social and digital, there is a split. And I'll give you a quick example. Like I said, when we launched E-com, we put a TVC around what is E-commerce and how to use it. So that was on TV and that was also on digital for about 50% of the time. Then the other 50%, we actually talked about safety security of using your card. So how you don't have to worry, how every transaction is encrypted. And also what are the different use cases like I touched upon earlier, online food delivery, online grocery, with offers. So we do everything on the social and digital space as well, split half-half. Very nice. Great. When it comes to video, you have an opportunity to adapt across, right? Whether it's a television or YouTube or wherever consumer is consuming video, you go video and you adapt for format, for duration, depending on what. And you get instant feedback, right? So you can keep optimizing the video, but it's largely part of the core idea, adapted for the medium. But then there is so much more that you can do within the same brand idea or the proposition, especially in our categories, it comes to food. If you look at temp and food appeal and temp appeal that you can build on digital, right? It's no longer a good old product window that comes at the end of a TV ad which nobody watches, right? Look at what Instagram has done for food and how food and temp appeal can be built. So I think we see a lot of opportunity to invest there or similarly a way to create consumer engagement on something like Twitter is very different, right? So I think there's a lot of opportunity to adapt the same idea for the platform depending on whether it's humorous. Is there any number that you want to give us like typically across categories in your portfolio? Y'all look at branding on digital as X percent and like Sujatha just said, it's broadly 50-50. So branding is 50% and the balance is on other aspects which may be social and branded content or education and stuff like that. Would anything like that? It'll be 70-30, 70 will be on proposition because it's finally the end of the day and there is still a large task to be done there. But 30 is not a small amount by any means. It's not a small amount. But Benita, it's not a... I think just going back to Anil's point, it's not a media question to me. I think the first fundamental piece is it's not a media question. It's not about adding heads and adding eyeballs per se alone across mediums. We, for example, don't quote unquote in traditional sense of advertising, don't advertise at all on this, right? You said that, so you would 100% point there. It's minuscule points. That's exactly what we are discussing. Some of us said 50-50. He said 70-30, you said 0-100 actually. So that's interesting, right? Because it is obviously category-specific and that's what we're debating on how. Yet we spend a fair packet on digital, but the purpose of that is enabling some part of the consumer or helping because what we have in our category is somebody who's 30, 35, 40, making the biggest project of his life where he has no clue of how to go about it, right? It's not the previous generation where you had to build at 60 and you had lifetime of experience to gather that. Now, you need somebody who's an abler in that entire journey and if you've got to, as a brand, trusted brand, as a leader brand, if you've got to enable people, it's not only about bombarding people with the same message about that's there. It's also helping and enabling people in their journey and therefore positioning yourself as an expert, which is far more valuable than any high-pitched advertising that you can do and therefore the returns are equally strong. How do you measure your return with something I'm not understanding, Ajay? You keep saying effectiveness and return. So is it again market share or is it, what is it? So I think if our proposition and if I'm just sorry because you asked me, I'm just getting into the piece a little bit. For us, we've put together that there is, it's a once in a lifetime project, biggest project, irreversibility and therefore I want to take the minimum amount of risk and therefore, and there are not too many metrics for somebody who's choosing the category for the first time, how to handle, measure a certain and grapple with the category. And therefore, for them, understanding leadership is many different cues. So that piece is far greater, a choice, an arbiter of choice and arbiter of trust and arbiter of leadership in our category, which translates into huge amount of sales. So you have- The measuring brand trust is that producing broadly. That's exactly what I wanted to know. So great. I mean, I think in COVID times, I think even for food and all kinds of things, I think brand trust has really taken up a very, very large role. Of course, your category was in, for different reasons like you explained, but I think due to COVID, I think brand trust has really shot up. Anusha, you were adding anything? Sorry, I can't see you again now, I think on the screen. No, I was saying that for a lot of non-essential categories like discretionary spends, where you are getting affected, you obviously cannot afford, say, mass TV reach and you can't afford to do that now. So what also is a successful model is to say, to continue spending on the core through mass and get continued saliency through mass TV, whereas for the non-core products, like if you're launching, which are perhaps in the discretionary items, you can actually use digital very successfully. We've done that quite a bit and we've seen a lot of success in the, especially the newer categories that got launched, I think during COVID and I think also shooting was a problem. So I think that's another thing that I've heard a lot. Let me cut upon something different now and ask you all because I think we've spoken more on a lot of use of digital rather than use of TV. It's like the digitized role. But within TV, now if I were to ask you guys in terms of the, apart from TVC content we've touched upon, what about these other non-FCT options that are happening? I think Live Boy again would be a lot of that on news channels and I don't know about category and, I don't know, I haven't seen, but maybe Voltas would have done some L bands and stuff like that and branding options on news. And any comments on that and any effectiveness that you can measure for it, Anusha, would you have any views on that? Because I think I've seen a lot of Live Boy on news like that. So like I said, I mean, I don't want to comment on Live Boy specifically now because I don't work on it anymore. It's a brand I used to work on. But I think overall, I think the similar, the way we've been assessing TV in the past, I think it is pretty much similar right now. I think the key has been to ensure that our saliency remains on top at such times because for a lot of brands like ours, which are trusted, what is important is to ensure that you are salient at such a time so that when the consumer is shopping online, they remember you and they buy you. So I think that's the simple philosophy to use right now. So would all of you be like anyone on the panel who would say, no, I would not do something like an L band. I would rather just do a brand TVC or it does another thing. In today's scenario, I would not because of obvious reasons. In today's scenario, we would not like to do all that. In fact, today's scenario, I would go back to the first point that what kind of content you can try to create when you're using high ticket opportunities. Unfortunately, it came like a sudden whirlwind. So nobody was prepared for it, whatever content you created for the summers and we were just getting into our summers, right? Peak, March and April beginning, I know the peak of our season, right? And then this thing happened. So I think it's very important to have the right content in today's scenario for the next few months. It's very important. And if you have the time to recreate content, please do that because everybody was caught unaware. And then of course, creating an L band or a pop-up with a bit of a push on the product, I think it won't hold good in today's scenario. But overall, yes, if things come back to normalcy, that adds a lot of impact to your original investment. It's a reminder and it works very well. Yeah, so I think that was the question, Mark. Last time, wave one, when the anxiousness was very high, the use of L band specifically in our category also pushed a lot of traffic into our digital channels. So because people were craving for information at that point of time. Now, of course, I agree that the scenario and the context is different, but the last six or eight odd months when until the time it was Jan of fair, it actually added, measurability was a question, Mark. I mean, I'll not say that it was measurable, but did it add to mind measures and resulting sales and the answer is definitely yes. Great, because I think we've heard a lot of categories swear by that actually, so yeah. But it was one of the points. Some different perspective, even on contextual stuff, Anita, is think while I think you might not have too much ultra tech bags being there in soaps, daily soaps, because it's out of place, but Modiji inaugurating the Statue of Unity, which has been built with ultra tech or the utter tunnel being inaugurated and that context and that context being hijacked, et cetera, by a brand and placing Stature, saying that you're not only contributing to homes being built, but you're also contributing to nation being built, is very contextual, is very, is I would tend to think reasonably decent integration and may not directly be linked to the home builders sale, but certainly adds to Stature for me. Absolutely, no, of course. So yeah, I know we're coming to the end of time. I just want to add one more thing on TV, Vanita, which is that in addition to content, somebody talked about how it's communicated. So I think one of the ways we use it as well and a lot of brands do is through the root of influences. And I think that's one thing which is above content. The last question I had was that, would you please bring it up? And since you're talking about it, just touch upon any regionalization of opportunities, the whole micro-influencer piece that has worked for you guys or not, yeah, please. Yeah, so one of the things, like I said, because our category is so much about credibility and people need to know that they're safe to do something, what we've done is actually tied up with influencers. And like you said, in different regions of the country, and actually these are superstars of different TV serials, they come and they talk about how, when in their shopping experience, they have used cashless, whether it's card or whatever, but and how they feel safe. So the content is about going cashless and the mode of communication is through influencers, who the common man can relate to quickly. That's one thing. And you have experienced a success with this, right? Yes. One formula. Anyone else? A big success. Very, very good, very nice. Thank you. Thanks. I think we've almost finished with our time, but anyone else has any example on this whole regionalization and celebrity influencer, et cetera? Also a very interesting point that I had, which I will like to conclude and I think Sunil is also there, some Bach stuff that, the top two regional languages that have actually grown more than 30% are Bhojpuri and Gujarati. So any luck on how television can be used on beyond the traditional way of looking at Hindi speaking markets, South and West Bengal and Maharashtra, are any of you like using HSM in a very micro market level? Any of you had any experience in that regard yet? I think we've started advertising clearly earlier. We never used to, when we used to do our ad translations, Bhojpuri and all was never a part of the, you know, the set of languages that we would actually translate to. But today you actually have gone really regional and we do advertise specifically in these languages because the Bhojpuri television, for example, has shot up like anything. Wonderful. So you don't think- I don't think many advertisers are still using the language in the TVC. They're using the channel, but if you're saying you're using the language in the TVC, I think still you would be the early... More importantly, the context, I think if large Kachia homes are being built in Hindi heartland to Bacca homes, I think the context is very different versus you and me. And I think that needs to echo more than even language, per se. And I think those are- Bhojpuri communication story will be enough. You have to have a look at that. You know, I think also, you know, another big trend that I see is the expansion of DD FreeDish, you know, which is happening, which is going to lead to a lot of penetration into regional markets going forward. So I think that's something that every brand has to look at. And of course, like Ajay was saying, whether it, of course it has to make sense to you, but for us, we are mass FMCG and therefore makes more sense for us to be as local as you can, because that's when consumers see you as relevant for them. Absolutely. Thank you so much. Each one of you, I think Bhavna has written to me that I think we have Bhavna, we don't have time now, right? We need to wrap up. I'm on the screen only. Thank you so much. Thank you to each one of you. Thank you. Thank you guys for being safe. Bye. Thank you. Thanks, guys. Thank you, guys.