 Welcome to Eyes on Hawaii on the ThinkTech Live Streaming Network series, broadcasting from our downtown studios at Pioneer Plaza at the core of downtown Honolulu. I'm your host, Carol Cox. Joining me in the studio today is Mr. Janard Frazier and Ms. Bridget Hemakwis. Carol is Mr. Mr. Janard Frazier is from Oocala and Ms. Hemakwis is from Kaloa on the island of Kauai. Remember that our talk shows are streamed live on the internet from 12 to 5 June every weekday and earlier Sundays shows are streamed all night long. All our shows are streamed on livestream.com. If you want the links to our live streams of previous broadcasts, which are available, youtube.com, or if you want to subscribe to our programs or get on our mailing list and get our program advisories, go to thinktechhawaii.com. If you want to pose a question or comment during one of our shows, please tweet us at thinktechhawaii, that's T-H-I-N-K-T-E-C-H-I. Okay, well, thank the two of you, Ms. Hemakwis, Mr. Frazier. Thank you for joining me and I was excited of getting you here because there's a number of things that are developing and we've been chasing some issues and some concerns that the community had Oocala on the big island and there's some legal actions being taken today in fact regarding that matter on the big island. So if you could, for an opening, what was the legal action that was filed or proposed now regarding this, Madam Bridget? Oh, an attorney from Oregon, the law officers of Charlie Tabott, who specializes in agricultural, big ag, industrial operations that are hurting communities. That's kind of been his environmental law experience for now more than 18 years, 28 years I think, actually. And he's come to the front and agreed to represent the community along with the Center for Food Safety and my understanding is they just served a notice of intent to sue on the owners of Big Island Dairy, which is the first step in a Federal Clean Water Act case because the dairy is polluting the community and the ocean and the fresh water in the area and has been now for three years that we know of. Well, this area that we're talking about, Oocala, is a very beautiful area, quaint, nice little chalet if we can describe it, borrow that term. But there's some concerns, Jeannard, that being presented and that you guys are raising the community members there. What are they? Most of the concerns is more so water, how they're polluting on water, and the stench of that dairy. The stench from that dairy creates a lot of issues for a lot of the elderly people that's there. They have headaches and you can't just open your window and spell that mountain breeze like before when we used to live there. Growing there, you could you could have your windows open and sleep throughout the night, a nice cool breeze. Now you've got to lock yourself, close the windows up and just try to stay away from that smell. It's just really bad. And what is this smell emanating from or coming from? What do you think is the contributing factor? The contributing factor is the dairy because we do have mountain winds come and they're directly above the whole community. So as soon as that mountain wind starts to blow in the afternoons or late evenings, that smell comes from the pond that they have up there that's creating that stench. If you could, because there are a lot of people that say naysayers and they don't understand or believe in the Ahupua or subsistence living. Can you describe just a normal day involving hunting, gathering and what have you? If you could do that for our viewers and bring home the reality that this is a real impact that you are experiencing and this is not manufactured because you're not opposed to the dairy in 100%. You just saying they need to do it right, right? So go ahead and if you could describe a day, a general day activity. During the day, you know, you get normally the men or the boys, they'll go up to the forest, you know, go gather some, either try to get some wild pigs or go in the forest and pick up some plants or whatever. And the younger ones that's next to the rivers, you know, they'll go into the rivers, go catch the opi, the prawns, the fish, and then that follows all the way down to the ocean, you know, where they go fishing and grab the opi. So that becomes, especially when you have community functions, you know, and that's part of what they pull out for the food. So it's not aquarium gathering, it's for food and for food resources. And this is a reality. And so what has, have you noticed any kind of impact or noticeable impact or things that have caused you not to go there? Is it the stench? Is it the water or what, or have you stopped going? We stopped going into the rivers because of the stench and all that fecal matter that's in the river now. So all the river, like the opi, the prawns, they feed on that. So now they're contaminated. You know, seeing like the fish, it goes down to the ocean, they get contaminated. And then the pigs, you know, they're up in the corn fields and in the dairy, but they're also meat eaters. But, you know, you get a sick cow, then they go feed on the cow. And then if they're getting sick, then we're trying to catch that pig, and that pig becomes sick. So it's introducing to the food chain. Now, Bridget, to bring this home as a reality, you, your organization, Friends of Mahalapu, actually sponsored a study of the biological impacts and the bacteria in the waters. Can you elaborate on that? Sure. Carol, as you know, we've been working for three years to try to keep a large industrial dairy from operating six-tenths of a mile above Mahalapu Beach on Kauai, on our south shore, the kind of the starting beach of that whole south shore coastline. There is an interest in putting 2,000 dairy cows up there, much like the size of the Okala Dairy, right, Genard. And we've been very concerned that you can't contain the manure. It's too great the production, and it will contaminate the water. And I was contacted by somebody who found our website, and he sent me an email, and he said, you guys, keep fighting, because you don't want to have on Kauai what we have here. And so I emailed the man back, and I said, what are you talking about? Because we hadn't even heard about it. And so when I emailed this gentleman back, I said, what are you experiencing? And he told me about how the stench wakes people at night. They have headaches. They have eyes burned. And I said, well, and then he told me about all their streams are brown and stink, and really bad odors, and they feel like manure is coming right into their community. And they actually had a few manure slides where people even from the Department of Health came out and confirmed, yeah, that was manure in the mud. And so don't go near it. They told the people. And I said, well, has somebody done any water quality testing yet? And they said, no, not that we know of. And so we contacted a Department of Health lab on the Big Island and asked if we could have some water quality sampling done for them because the community really didn't know where to begin. And we were fortunate on Kauai. We have the Surfrider Blue Water Task Force that does test the water around the island that's going to the ocean. And so we learned about that process. So we contacted the lab and the owner of the lab said, yes, they could go out and they could run some samples. They didn't think they would necessarily find much. But in fact, when they got the results back, they were so bad that she called me and said, you know, I have to report this to the state like she wanted my permission. And I said, well, you know, I yeah, absolutely, we want you to report it to the state because we're trying to help them. And these people are sick. I mean, I'd had community members tell me about hospitalizations for respiratory illnesses for E. Coli. There was a man who had was in intensive care for a really bad E. Coli infection. And the doctor said, where could he have gotten this? And that's one of the bacteria that cultured out. So what were the what were the levels? They were high. Extremely high. The normal in the state is 130 bacteria colonies in 100cc or about three ounces of water. They don't want to see it beyond that. And these are numbers 2000 and above that they were getting. So what was found at E. Coli was 2000 above and the actual limit that the state observed is 130. So that then can present problems, health risk and health concerns. And in your community there at E. Coli, Genard, you are actually witnessing or seeing and have knowledge and I've spoken with the few as well as you where people have actually gotten sick and one is actually deceased or died from we don't know specifically from what but the symptoms and all of the circumstances seem to point back or suggest that aerosoling of the bacteria from the cow manure and what have you. These are some of the concerns that people are thinking and trying to get to the point to decide. And has the state approached you or the community or the state health department to address the health issues? As of what they we talked on and they still can't come up with a confirmation of what they can find so far. Right now they keep saying we don't know we don't have the manpower etc. So what we're telling them is you know we need to do something now because we cannot wait until somebody gets sick or start dying and that they seem to just keep dragging their feet on even issues they don't have enough manpower you know they need to get more people on board and so it's get it gets really frustrating. Because this is a reality people are being sick and already having staff infections and that are all concepts and septic conditions and so where are we now now we'll talk in the next half of this show about the incidence or the increase or the infestation what appears to be an infestation of the semi snails or the semi slugs that is known to be carrying or host to the long-warrant disease and you guys are ground zero apparently that's in that area and has been to my knowledge or just brought to me was that that was that area has been identified as a major problem. Just a bit if you could OP now the plumes that there are some pictures there we're showing in the background and and these are shots that we shot from helicopter and and looking down and it's quite interesting runoff there was a flood in 2015 2014 when was the flood there's been more than one okay the most recent one where the houses and the homes were impacted that was September of 2016 okay so that brought a lot of detritus down and did you see an increase in the number of those snails and are all the insects or mollusks or slugs or anything definitely definitely once that flood came down and that all that mud came through and that rain there was definitely an increase in that slug population I mean you'd walk outside on the cement slab and just see them everywhere you know one time you could walk out and go oh there's one slug now you walk out there's 15 20 of them you know so definitely a huge increase and this is a semi-slug the one that has no shell but appear to be and there's a normal slug but it's presenting a problem and and the uneasiness now that we find in that community and speaking to them people are afraid they're afraid to garden anymore they're afraid to eat and even in your gardens you're threatened so they were studied or someone came there to inspect them but there's so much and are you hoping that that this process does not affect you groundwater eventually I there's a potential we had a meeting and what they found is a dairy is built right over our water table so with the two streams on both sides and the middle the potential for contamination is is going to be greater you know so with them keeping all that money on the ground spraying it on the ground the rain precipitation that's going to eventually leak into the water table that are drinking water and so this needs to come to a stop or a cleanup so that that potential can dissipate okay we're going to take a short break i'm carol cox this is eyes on hawaii on the think tech live stream network we're talking with mr nard frazier and miss frigid hammer quiz we'll be back in a minute so stay tuned for more of this story i'm going to the game and it's going to be great early arriving for a little tailgate i usually drink but we'll be drinking today because i'm the designated driver and that's okay it's nice to be the guy that keeps his friends in line keeps them from drinking too much so we can have a great time a little responsibility can go a long way because it's all about having fun on game day let's go match day is no ordinary day the pitch hallowed ground for players and supporters alike excitement builds game plans are made with responsibility in mind celebrations are underway ready for kickoff mls clubs and our supporters rise to the challenge we make responsible decisions while we cheer on our heroes and toast their success elevate your match day experience if you drink never drive we're back and we're live i'm carol cox and this is eyes on hawaii on the think tech live streaming network series talking about oh oh kala and the impacts of the big island dairy and um let's dig into this again because with all of this said and this legal action and legal actions don't come on just because someone has uh nothing to do in life because these are very costly and and all of that and assembling them and you got to have your facts some of the facts are the dairy has been there how long it was purchased 12 12 yeah the big island dairy that's because it was originally a smaller dairy and uh so of 700 cows are so correct correct and then in 2013 that small dairy was sold purchased by the people that owns big island dairy's white sides right and uh that dairy then increase its numbers yes became a kaffo can you explain to our viewers and listeners what a kaffo is real quickly sure it's a confined animal feed operation and the epa defines what a kaffo is and when there's more than 700 cows in confinement it's considered a large kaffo and there's special regulations they have to satisfy and in this case they grew the herd to almost 2000 and most of the herd at least 80 percent is now confined in stalls so their manure is collected in troughs and swept into a holding area and then it's fed into wastewater ponds and into manure solid um composites that they're used to spread on the ground and so um it became a very more intensive operation putting a lot more they're making at least two million pounds of manure and wastewater a month and their practices are the way they operate and the operation requires some kind of permit or discharge of wastewater right that manages that do they have a wastewater discharge permit no but we did find in fact emails that suggests that the state had concluded the experts had concluded in the enforcement body had concluded that they needed the research but yet none was actually taken or applied for issue no a farmer can start an operation and say that they're going to control their waste and not discharge and if they take that position the state can't force them to get a discharge permit or an npds permit but the minute they discharge the law says that they then do need to go get a wastewater permit because if they put manure into freshwater streams that go to the ocean that's waters of the us and they can't do that legally under the environmental protection act now they did that they being the state and and you know often we were critical of the state but this one instance where the state in 2014 uh an inspector by the name of Neil Mukai yes the the public should be proud of him because he actually went there did his job served as a professional as a public servant documented but for some strange reason no notices violations no citations or anything were issued you know jennard jennard you were in fact privy to seeing some of this water run out of various holding pens or whatever can you describe what you found and have actually have photographs of it i found you know we hunt those gouches so we kind of know how to get in and out of them and so going into the gouches we see the wastewater flowing in them you know so they got a dryer that's up there right next to the gouch and we can see the water and every time it rains that's where the water is going to go and they come flowing right down in between and through people's yards to the gouch and create a nasty smell in the gouch especially when it starts to dry up you know you got all these fumes so um so they're drying it and and the interesting thing is is that they are drying the the cow manure extracting the cow manure the solids out of the wastewater and then putting it through a dryer and then taking that dried material and using it as bedding for the cow for the cows some of it is being used yeah well i don't know if it's using a tablespoon or a bucketful but per their statements they're using it for bedding so i quite naturally if you got 2 000 cows you would be concerned that it's more for one large cow to lay down so it would be it's substantial it's kind of like a double-edged sword because you have dry stuff going on the ground and yet the liquid that they extract gets sprayed on the ground right and leeches into the rivers so it doesn't catch us and i want to take this opportunity to make sure that we will extend an invite to big island dairy in the white sides and in fact we'll do that now that if they would like to come on and give us a call at carolcox.com or call thinktech hawaii.com and then we'll make some arrangements and send an email we want to be fair and give equal time and we don't want to be spreading the bull so to speak and we want to avoid that but we want to convey that when i flew up in the helicopter and witnessed the large plume that you spoke about off the coast there and you can see it over the years i've seen i know the difference between sediment suspended sediments from storms and high waves this was a unique pattern and we could also see by taking the helicopter down to the lowest level of the cliffs within 10 feet of the cliffs and you could see the brown staining from the coming down the gulfs that have deposited on the face of the wall and you can see straddles of different colors materials you know intrusions of ferrous high levels of iron and rocks but this was not rocks this was more of manure stain or urine stain ammonia stain having that color of uh as you as you described straw colored yellow stain so and when you talked about the 2014 report the one thing they did differently was they did go from the dairy all the way to the ocean and the young man who did that report Neil Mokai was able to document the flow and the direct connection in 2016 when they came back they didn't make that trek they didn't try to go to the ocean they didn't track the stream down they found a road on the farm inundated with feces they said right janard yeah feces and wastewater but they still didn't track to see where it was going and they just concluded their report was there was still a very high risk because the lagoons were full to the brim and you know they found all this wastewater running around loose on the farm so now one of the things is this this is a community this you're not activists you're not uh you're not coming from the old days of being you know involved in protests and all but you were you've made sick and tired of it yeah so in that process all of you got together and you found it uh kupale oh oh kala and uh that is a protect and defend and interpreted as in the Hawaiian language so your community has put this group together with the assistance of others and what are you going to do now where are you moving forward to this you you have a legal action you have representation legally what is the next step just waiting i think the next step is have them clean up the pollution and if that's something that they can't do then we have to clean up the dairy you know and whatever happens from there now going back to these inspection reports one occurred in 2014 why did that inspection take place they had had um complaints from the residents and they had had run off and through the community and they were well they were doing actually were reporting about all the bad odors yajira and the and the wastewater in this train and so and so they this was triggered by the public complaining but what kind of pre uh arrange inspections normal inspections you know unannounced inspections did any of those take place was it just triggered by the concerns no follow-up and I've learned that in 2016 there was another inspection conducted and it seemed to avoid looking at the areas that were inspected in 2014 and found to be and and interestingly enough there's this one word a term in 2016 they emphasized that all things that were bad had the potential of spilling into the environment or spilling into the stream or running off the potential but in 2014 the same practice nothing much changed it was clearly violations yes you know they found a point source of discharge in 2014 they tracked it all the way to the ocean in 2014 the difference was in 2016 they didn't track it they saw it running and flowing on the site but they didn't go look in the gulches and try and track it down that was the difference and when we say they it's the state health department now uh taken all of that off the table the interesting part about this these are two state agencies that are really involved in this process the state department of agriculture owns the land a large portion of it and then in turn they are advocating for the dairy because it's part of the plan of the quote economy and sustainable farming so how then do we have a sister agency this might explain why the state had a difficult time in enforcing anything in 2016 because it is their tenant to borrow a term from scott inright the chairman of the department of agriculture it is their tenant who is would be violating but the state agriculture department would take ownership or take responsibility and then offer to pay the state to health department to do address any of these issues what's what has taken place in that has anything come of that offer that scott inright the chairman of agriculture have you heard anything no um he's promised the world to do stuff do testing do this do that nothing has been done health department all the inspectors nobody came up and did inspections they say they're going to do inspections but not one okay we're real quick we got about 20 seconds you got anything to say and we'll try to come back again and do this but anything real quick i think the the most important thing is that they even the state confirmed the bacteria levels they did do one set of tests after ours okay we'll be back and thank you guys for joining me we're out of time and we'll have a wrap up and i'm carol cox this is eyes on hawaii on the think tank live streaming network series we've been talking with miss bridget hammerquist and mr jenard frazier advocating for the community benefits on olcala big island thanks you to you all of you for coming on thank you and i appreciate it thanks to our engineer mr bob latman and the full manager and uh jay fidel our executive producer who puts all of this together and thanks to you our viewers and listeners if you want to get our email and social media program advisors click the link on think tech hawaii dot com if you'd like to be a guest or on the rider or volunteer if you want to join us in our downtown studio in pioneer plaza contact j j a y at think tech hawaii dot com if you want the links to our live streams or our previous broadcasts on youtube or you stream just go to think tech hawaii dot com go there and to our facebook and page and tell them you like us we love you to like us and of course i'll see you next week and i'm carol cox and aloha thank all of you